Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) - Dec 30 - 2009

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 20 Jan 2010 10:43

Paki non selection in IPL 3 is purely business decision. Lalit Modi (and by extension BCCI, by extension GoI) did its best to accommodate the Paki players. They twice extended the deadlines for submission (recall the players where in NZ tour).

I do not see any GoI hand in giving magic pointers to anyone on this non selection. However i see a paki plot in making sure they are not selected. The timely column in Yawn about the Jihadization of Paki cricket players & most notably effort to convert Vettori.

IPL 3 owners do not want to spend money on un-reliable people. Period. Just because they have visas does not mean they have to use the visa. There is no iron-clad guarantee that they will travel. They can back out at the last moment. Paki govt. can play the spoil sport here. This will hamper all plans / activities planned by IPL owners.

And Deccan Chargers have seen Afidi performance in T20, so i am sure they are very interested...in him

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 20 Jan 2010 10:47

TSP players in it or not, does anyone believe that an IPL match would not be an actively scouted and desired target for pigLeTs?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jan 2010 11:00

^^ bharat, what India did was invite the pakis at IPL auction where they come with inflated ego as world champions and dreams of 72*10k dollars

India didn't invite paki players. they repeatedly asked to play in IPL and got PCB to issue NOC.

a_bharat wrote: |Edited: You aren't reading my post correctly.| All I was saying was that the Paki cricketers should have been kept out of IPL in a more graceful way. It would have been much better if Indian Govt said Paki players will not be allowed to play in India until Pakistan acts against the perpetrators of 26/11 terror attacks.

Indian govt can't do any such thing, at least not publicly when there is no declared break in relations with pak. this is not pakistan.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jan 2010 11:03

Rangudu wrote:TSP players in it or not, does anyone believe that an IPL match would not be an actively scouted and desired target for pigLeTs?

may be. but not with more intensity than what they would have targeted the IPL with anyway.

paki IT industry is anyway working at its 100%, it's not possible for it to churn up that % any more. the quiet last year is due to excellent work by IB et al, not benevolence of ISI.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 20 Jan 2010 11:14

Rahul M wrote:the quiet last year is due to excellent work by IB et al, not benevolence of ISI.

Hope you are right, but I am not yet convinced that it is due to excellent work by IB.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jan 2010 11:18

a_bharat wrote: If that thinking was there, great. But, I think GoI, BCCI just bumbled and the situation was saved at the last minute by some right thinking people.

Yes. Absolutely correct IMO. And if I recall it was this "last minute saving" that you declared was "humiliation" for Pakistani players. I believe you wanted to exclude them without this humiliation. Is that right?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jan 2010 11:26

Rangudu wrote:TSP players in it or not, does anyone believe that an IPL match would not be an actively scouted and desired target for pigLeTs?

In fact an attack on a match with TSP players would be used to say that it was Col Prohit and his Hindu extremists wearing saffron bands attacking India while the Hindu fundamentalist nation tries to blame innocent Pakistan.

archan · Post by **archan** » 20 Jan 2010 11:26

a_bharat wrote:
Rahul M wrote:the quiet last year is due to excellent work by IB et al, not benevolence of ISI.
Hope you are right, but I am not yet convinced that it is due to excellent work by IB.

What I find really interesting is that people form such opinions based on no real evidence at all. The thinking goes like this:
Ok so the home minister says 12-13 attempted attacks have been stopped. Some people have been arrested, and they say the USA is helping with intelligence and new leads are coming out on and off.
Well, they are all probably lying, because I feel that this lull in terror attacks is doe to some other reason, such as pakis not feeling humiliated..

Gotta love....gotta love..

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 20 Jan 2010 11:28

a_bharat wrote:Hope you are right, but I am not yet convinced that it is due to excellent work by IB.

Baki players got rejected from IPL and you are throwing a hissy fit on BRF about GoI being insensitive to bakis?

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 20 Jan 2010 11:35

shiv wrote:
a_bharat wrote: If that thinking was there, great. But, I think GoI, BCCI just bumbled and the situation was saved at the last minute by some right thinking people.
Yes. Absolutely correct IMO. And if I recall it was this "last minute saving" that you declared was "humiliation" for Pakistani players. I believe you wanted to exclude them without this humiliation. Is that right?

I am for right humiliation (barring from IPL in a straight-forward way). Since that didn't happen, if I have to choose between wrong humiliation for Pakistan or see them play in the IPL, I would choose the former.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2010 11:35

^^^On IPL, heard from someone in the senior management of one of the franchisees that they had some discreet feelers that the GOI will not be all that pleased about Pak players in the tournament. Given that most franchisees are sponsored by businesses that need to be in regular "interaction" with the govt, and no one really wanted to take a risk either with the money, or with another "foreign player slot"...

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 20 Jan 2010 11:38

I really dont know how differently it could have been handled that would have given less offense to Pakbarians. If GOI had upfront declared that Paki terrorists cannot play in domestic league that would also have given offense. The exact same comments that 10%'s team is making would have been made about 'mixing politics with sport' and so on...If they had allowed the auction but not given visa it will be worse.

If a Pakbarian terrorist cricketer makes $1m from IPL and pays even 20% tax to TSP of which 30-40% goes to finance terrorism in India, then you are talking about $60-70k of money from IPL to jehadise. IPL money is hard earned money of our poorer classes that spend it on foolish movies like addicts spend on opium. To see that money ending up in the hands of the likes of Kasab to shoot these people in the streets of Mumbai and elsewhere is horrible.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 20 Jan 2010 11:41

http://www.hindu.com/2010/01/20/stories ... 301100.htm

Gen Kapur has hearing trouble...Chindu link

Now Gen Kapur can officially ignore comments by Pakbarians against his statements because he cannot hear them...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jan 2010 11:43

amit, Rudradev,

Chill out guys. Stick to TSP bashing instead of each other

.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2010 11:47

archan wrote:Ok so the home minister says 12-13 attempted attacks have been stopped. Some people have been arrested, and they say the USA is helping with intelligence and new leads are coming out on and off.
Well, they are all probably lying, because I feel that this lull in terror attacks is doe to some other reason, such as pakis not feeling humiliated..

Gotta love....gotta love..

Its a lot more complicated than that..There is a lot more cooperation with the US on intel now, which obviously helps..The intel agencies also are hopefully more perked up than before 26/11..But the big factor has to be that the US has been told by the Indian govt "this far and no further", and it is transmitting the same to Pakistan..till the time US maintains a large presence in Af, it needs to keep Pak "relatively" stable..And for that to be ensured, India needs to be on board..And for India to be onboard, no high visibility terrror attacks would be the datum level...

All the more important to realise how important the US presence in Af is for us...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jan 2010 11:49

a_bharat wrote: I am for right humiliation (barring from IPL in a straight-forward way). Since that didn't happen, if I have to choose between wrong humiliation for Pakistan or see them play in the IPL, I would choose the former.

Man, you nit-picking. How does it matter if they were considered and then shown the boot? Big bloody deal. And since when did rules and ethics come into play in dealing with TSP? Did TSPians show any semblance of ethical behavior after any of their countless terror attacks against India? Did Afridi or any of the other Paki terrorist players show any heartfelt remorse or empathy for India after 26/11? You are just latching on to a technicality and missing the larger picture. To me what this episode shows is that short of war, there are many ways India can hurt TSP but has not exercized them so far.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2010 11:50

Suppiah wrote:IPL money is hard earned money of our poorer classes that spend it on foolish movies like addicts spend on opium.

Small nitpick, but none of IPL money is money from the "poorer classes"..It is money spent by large corporates on brand building - they do it on cricket today because that is the "in thing"..If Golf was more popular in India, they would have done it there..NO qualms about the point on Indian money going to Pak in this fashion, but its "elite Indian" money, not "poor"!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2010 11:51

somnath wrote:
archan wrote:Ok so the home minister says 12-13 attempted attacks have been stopped. Some people have been arrested, and they say the USA is helping with intelligence and new leads are coming out on and off.
Well, they are all probably lying, because I feel that this lull in terror attacks is doe to some other reason, such as pakis not feeling humiliated..

Gotta love....gotta love..
Its a lot more complicated than that..There is a lot more cooperation with the US on intel now, which obviously helps..The intel agencies also are hopefully more perked up than before 26/11..But the big factor has to be that the US has been told by the Indian govt "this far and no further", and it is transmitting the same to Pakistan..till the time US maintains a large presence in Af, it needs to keep Pak "relatively" stable..And for that to be ensured, India needs to be on board..And for India to be onboard, no high visibility terrror attacks would be the datum level...

All the more important to realise how important the US presence in Af is for us...

On the contrary all the more important for US that there are no terrorist attacks form TSP on India.
A small reminder. This is Bharat Rakshak even if a lot of members are NRIs.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 20 Jan 2010 11:53

somnath wrote:
Suppiah wrote:IPL money is hard earned money of our poorer classes that spend it on foolish movies like addicts spend on opium.
Small nitpick, but none of IPL money is money from the "poorer classes"..It is money spent by large corporates on brand building - they do it on cricket today because that is the "in thing"..If Golf was more popular in India, they would have done it there..NO qualms about the point on Indian money going to Pak in this fashion, but its "elite Indian" money, not "poor"!

Sory...getting a bit OT...Most of those big corporates are selling fairly basic low end consumer goods to the masses, who watch the ads where the same Bollywood and cricket 'hero's feature and buy these goods with their hard earned money...if most of them buy products on what they are and not who endorses them, these elites wont be spending their money on IPL but on product development and innovation.

amit · Post by **amit** » 20 Jan 2010 11:54

CRamS wrote:amit, Rudradev,

Chill out guys. Stick to TSP bashing instead of each other .

Precisely my point Bro, agree with you 400 per cent. It's nice to remind ourselves once in a while - as you just did - we may have different perceptions but we are all on the same side, even if we're very argumentative Indians.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 20 Jan 2010 11:58

Peace..peace everywhere except of course, in TSP

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Jan 2010 12:03

US shares intel with India on a need to share basis former realizes the importance of preventing another 26/11 in India lest it looses credibility and trust of the GOI and eventually an opportunity to pursue its long term interests in the Indian subcontinent.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 20 Jan 2010 12:13

Suppiah wrote:I really dont know how differently it could have been handled that would have given less offense to Pakbarians. If GOI had upfront declared that Paki terrorists cannot play in domestic league that would also have given offense. The exact same comments that 10%'s team is making would have been made about 'mixing politics with sport' and so on...If they had allowed the auction but not given visa it will be worse.

Shahid Afridi could have been selected by Preity Zinta, atleast one Paki should have been selected. That would have been less offence to Pakbarians.

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Jan 2010 12:16

^ I don't get it you want them to not be treated so badly and at the same time use words like "Pakbarians".

Make up your mind.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 20 Jan 2010 12:18

somnath wrote:
archan wrote:Ok so the home minister says 12-13 attempted attacks have been stopped. Some people have been arrested, and they say the USA is helping with intelligence and new leads are coming out on and off.
Well, they are all probably lying, because I feel that this lull in terror attacks is doe to some other reason, such as pakis not feeling humiliated..

Gotta love....gotta love..
Its a lot more complicated than that..There is a lot more cooperation with the US on intel now, which obviously helps..The intel agencies also are hopefully more perked up than before 26/11..But the big factor has to be that the US has been told by the Indian govt "this far and no further", and it is transmitting the same to Pakistan..till the time US maintains a large presence in Af, it needs to keep Pak "relatively" stable..And for that to be ensured, India needs to be on board..And for India to be onboard, no high visibility terrror attacks would be the datum level...

All the more important to realise how important the US presence in Af is for us...

IMHO the relative success, that we have seen in curbing big ticket terror strike on Indian land from Pakistani jehadi factory, provided a good proof of TSP states overall production/control & distribution of terrorists so far. In last 2 years slowly but surely more and more rank and file managers in all departments of USA that are involved in AF-PAK are increasingly starting to be blunt in naming TSP as they should have long back and that in my opinion is reason for pakis tampering off terror directed against India or more appropriately the TSPA handlers/consultants have gone low profile as they no longer feel that CIA will cover them up as fully as they used to in past when India complains. It is more a lovers spat between CIA and ISI/TSPA that is playing out a drama where the usual cannon fooder jihadis turned table against TSPA, no doubt mad at not being protected from Paki national bird visits in safe heavens.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 20 Jan 2010 12:19

Shahid Afridi could have been selected by Preity Zinta, atleast one Paki should have been selected. That would have been less offence to Pakbarians.

Why the takleef if Pakis take offence or if they lose their H&D.Whatever may be the reason, Iam happy. This will help in pulling them down from their self created pedestal.
"The world (atleast the cricketing world) can do without pakis" This will do more harm to them than any number of aggressive posturing. The more world pays attention the more they feel they are important. Ignore them, humiliate them, defeat them and allow them to rot. It is good for humanity

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 20 Jan 2010 12:21

negi wrote:^ I don't get it you want them to not be treated so badly and at the same time use words like "Pakbarians".
Make up your mind.

You did not catch my point. It would have been much more humiliating to take away the food, from the hungry mouth, rather than just shutting off the Beggars. If Shahid Afridi had been selected, there would have been furore not to participate in the IPL, and he would have voluntarily opted out of the IPL due to pressure from his cousin who met his 72.

I want them to be treated very badly, not the otherway. Its a Googly.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 20 Jan 2010 12:28

somnath wrote:
Suppiah wrote:IPL money is hard earned money of our poorer classes that spend it on foolish movies like addicts spend on opium.
Small nitpick, but none of IPL money is money from the "poorer classes"..It is money spent by large corporates on brand building - they do it on cricket today because that is the "in thing"..If Golf was more popular in India, they would have done it there..NO qualms about the point on Indian money going to Pak in this fashion, but its "elite Indian" money, not "poor"!

and the elite get their money how? don't they sell stuff to the poorer sections?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 20 Jan 2010 12:31

TKiran wrote:
Suppiah wrote:I really dont know how differently it could have been handled that would have given less offense to Pakbarians. If GOI had upfront declared that Paki terrorists cannot play in domestic league that would also have given offense. The exact same comments that 10%'s team is making would have been made about 'mixing politics with sport' and so on...If they had allowed the auction but not given visa it will be worse.
Shahid Afridi could have been selected by Preity Zinta, atleast one Paki should have been selected. That would have been less offence to Pakbarians.

Sorry what I meant was keeping Pakistani jehadis out and yet not give offense...if you let them in and they still take offense, that would be crazy..

niran · Post by **niran** » 20 Jan 2010 12:33

TKiran wrote:

You did not catch my point. It would have been much more humiliating to take away the food, from the hungry mouth, rather than just shutting off the Beggars. If Shahid Afridi had been selected, there would have been furore not to participate in the IPL, and he would have voluntarily opted out of the IPL due to pressure from his cousin who met his 72.

I want them to be treated very badly, not the otherway. Its a Googly.

the opposite would have happened, the furor would have been for more packese to be included, or else...... that makes your's a dead ball not a Googly.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jan 2010 12:34

a_bharat wrote:
Rahul M wrote:the quiet last year is due to excellent work by IB et al, not benevolence of ISI.
Hope you are right, but I am not yet convinced that it is due to excellent work by IB.

oh ?! so the pakis were suddenly overcome by biratheri towards us after 26/11 ?! is that it ?

what I said is borne out quite well by facts and statements of those in the know as is available to us through the media.
it's not our problem if you choose to be ignorant of the facts but then we can also convey to you that you are being ignorant ?

amit · Post by **amit** » 20 Jan 2010 12:35

TKiran wrote:Shahid Afridi could have been selected by Preity Zinta, atleast one Paki should have been selected. That would have been less offence to Pakbarians.

Kiran ji,

Can you explain what you mean by you comment that Preity Zinta could have selected Shahid Afridi?

I hope you realise your statement implies a host of things. Such as:

1) The IPL franchise owners don't select their teams professionally.

2) That the Paki players should be selected irrespective of whether the team owners think they bring value to the team or not? You and I are not the ones to pass judgment on the value proposition of the Paki players. It's the professionals whose wallet would be affected by the performance of the players who matter.

3) IPL player selection has nothing to do with what folks in their country of orgin think about the selection process. Think of the EPL on which IPL is modelled. Do you think Brazil (for example) would feel miffed if less number of their star players were selected to play in the EPL than say arch rival Argentina?

All this talk by various journalists that so and so Paki players is so good and better than so and so player who has been selected is all bull shit. Have you see a single ex-cricketer making comparisons like Umar Gul is better than Kaif or some such rubbish? We are not talking about the overall potential of a cricketer. We are talking about a cricketer's specific utility for particular brand of cricket. Someone like Robin Uthapa would be considered more valuable in a T20 match than, say Rahul Dravid. Does that imply Uthapa is overall a better cricketer than Dravid?

Finally Pakistan won the T20 World Cup. The country that came in runner up was Sri Lanka. Yet, if I'm not mistaken only one Sri Lankan was selected. The Aussies just took the pants off the Pakis in Australia. Yet only two Australians were selected. Do you see Sri Lankan or Aussie players howling in protest?

I'm sorry to have to say this but all this hang wringing and moaning that is taking place here about the alleged insult to the Paki players seems to me to be a sort of convoluted manifestation of the Stockholm Syndrome.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jan 2010 12:37

somnath wrote:
Suppiah wrote:IPL money is hard earned money of our poorer classes that spend it on foolish movies like addicts spend on opium.
Small nitpick, but none of IPL money is money from the "poorer classes"..It is money spent by large corporates on brand building - they do it on cricket today because that is the "in thing"..If Golf was more popular in India, they would have done it there..NO qualms about the point on Indian money going to Pak in this fashion, but its "elite Indian" money, not "poor"!

nitpick, corporates don't mint money, their money come from the Indian consumer, many of them poor who in effect pay for these players by buying the products that these corporates sell at inflated prices.

it is the money of poor Indians at the end of the day.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2010 12:39

ramana wrote:On the contrary all the more important for US that there are no terrorist attacks form TSP on India.
A small reminder. This is Bharat Rakshak even if a lot of members are NRIs.

Well the US is going to be interested only till the time it is physically in Af - after that, they wouldnt give a shit (besides benign neglect, of the type that saw the Taliban coming to power in the '90s)..Its probably a bit different this time, and some sort of US presence is going to sustain for the foreseeable future. But the sort of massive presence that creates such huge "network externailities" has to be a for a defined, short period..We need to max our strategic space within that..

And what was the snide one on NRIs and Bharat (Rakshak)? Went quite a bit over my head..

OT, but on IPL - the way it works is this, a bunch of consumer goods companies have a defined budget on what is generically called "advertisement"..they use ad dollars to sell goods to Indians, incl the poor.There is no evidence yet that IPL has caused aggregate ad budgets to go up out of tune with normal economic cycles..And there is certainly no evidence of consumption by the "poor" of anything going up because of IPL (there might be a "bunching up" of the consumption, but not an aggregate increase)...With IPL, a greater share of the ad dollars goes there instead of other things (like Golf, or Hindi films, or anything else)..So IPL (or Indian cricket in general) does not use either taxpayer money, or "money from the poor", it simply allocates corporate money in favour of itself...My last post on this..

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 20 Jan 2010 12:40

TKiran wrote:
negi wrote:^ I don't get it you want them to not be treated so badly and at the same time use words like "Pakbarians".
Make up your mind.
If Shahid Afridi had been selected, there would have been furore not to participate in the IPL, and he would have voluntarily opted out of the IPL due to pressure from his cousin who met his 72.

TKiran,
You are expecting this cretin to have 'Ghairat' to withdraw. That trait has long been eliminated from Pakis. Pakis are beggars with no shame and would sell their mother given an opportunity.
Just a recent example, they accepted 28m aid from Denmark after all the tamasha of boycotting Danish goods.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 20 Jan 2010 12:40

Rahul M wrote:
oh ?! so the pakis were suddenly overcome by biratheri towards us after 26/11 ?! is that it ?

Nobody said that. I think they are afraid of something, or perhaps they are waiting for right time.

what I said is borne out quite well by facts and statements of those in the know as is available to us through the media.
it's not our problem if you choose to be ignorant of the facts but then we can also convey to you that you are being ignorant ?

Perhaps I am being ignorant, or, may be you are being naive.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 20 Jan 2010 12:46

a_bharat wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
oh ?! so the pakis were suddenly overcome by biratheri towards us after 26/11 ?! is that it ?
Nobody said that. I think they are afraid of something, or perhaps they are waiting for right time.

Now that we humiliated the Pakis by not selecting them for IPL, they will launch attacks.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 20 Jan 2010 12:51

milindc wrote: Now that we humiliated the Pakis by not selecting them for IPL, they will launch attacks.

slight correction: they will launch attacks, and WKK/RAPE will cry that it is because they felt humiliated.

Think of Aesop's fable of the wolf and the lamb. Any excuse will do.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2010 12:51

One more on IPL - this time all franchisees concentrated on buying players that would "last" for the full duration of the tournament..Barring India, many of the other countries would/might have international commitments during the duration of IPL..Therefore, the biggest bids went for Shane Bond (retired from intnl cricket) and Pollard (who is not part of the Windies test team)..Ditto with Eon Morgan (who doesnt play test cricket for England yet), or Wayne Parnell, who doesnt play in SA's test team..With the Pak players, there are similar issues on availability as with other foreign players, and then the discreet feelers on "official unhappiness"..

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 20 Jan 2010 12:53

amit wrote:
TKiran wrote:Shahid Afridi could have been selected by Preity Zinta, atleast one Paki should have been selected. That would have been less offence to Pakbarians.
Kiran ji,

Can you explain what you mean by you comment that Preity Zinta could have selected Shahid Afridi?

I am a bachcha in matters Paki. Dont call me ji, Kiran is Good Enough. Where did you learn to hit a six off a Googly

This has been my first over in TSP thread.