Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 22 Mar 2010 17:35

There is no chance of TSP getting a deal. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. Anyone who thinks TSP is going to get a deal like that doesn't understand how DC works or underestimates India's clout, the clout that made it possible to get a deal.

This is just more BS from the ToI.

Anyone doubting that should look at the words of Richard Holbrooke, the US envoy for Kashmir...

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 22 Mar 2010 17:40

The burnt-out case of David Headley

http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/mar/ ... eadley.htm

The Headley case highlights that the Indian government proved incapable of assessing the geopolitical dimensions of the US-led war in Afghanistan, while Pakistan has shrewdly exploited the fallacies in India's foreign policy orientation to navigate itself to an unprecedented geopolitical positioning, writes M K Bhadrakumar

here is no doubt that David Headley's arrest last October has been a breakthrough in throwing light on the operations and activities of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba in India. To quote Curtis, "Most troubling about the Headley case is what it has revealed about the proximity of the Pakistani military to the LeT." Trouble began brewing from this point.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Mar 2010 18:08

shiv wrote:We cannot punish the US in any way unless we have a handle on them and some way to manipulate them.

Correct.

Consider Russia, 15% of Indian population, and a GDP about the same as ours. How do Russia and India compare in terms of ability to modify US behavior? Is Russia better-off? If so, why?

Consider China, whose economy in 2001 was the same size as the Indian economy is now. How does the India of today compare with the China of 2001 in terms of ability to modify US behavior? Was China better off than we are now? If so, why?

shiv wrote: Why not throw some crumbs at the US? Buy Helicopters, Transport aircraft and fighters. Make wage earners in the US earn wages from Indian money. Make a few US politicians dependent on the votes of people who are earning their wages in money from India. Work India into a position where we can dictate to the US what they can give to Pakistan. We currently have our heads buried in the sand. And despite that we are still not immune to US actions in Pakistan. Why not change that? A conditional bandwagoning with the US is desirable.

We are doing the buying and helping keep US factories running but the only result of that is that the US has more money to give to the Paks.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Mar 2010 18:32

Pranav wrote: Consider Russia, 15% of Indian population, and a GDP about the same as ours. How do Russia and India compare in terms of ability to modify US behavior? Is Russia better-off? If so, why?

Central Asia. Oil & Gas.

Consider China, whose economy in 2001 was the same size as the Indian economy is now. How does the India of today compare with the China of 2001 in terms of ability to modify US behavior? Was China better off than we are now? If so, why?

Walmart. Mortgages (i.e., affects everyday Americans in their wallet).

With Afghanistan at the center of the US set of concerns (they are bleeding lifes and $s) Pakistan currently has the geographic advantage over India.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Mar 2010 18:44

A_Gupta wrote:
Pranav wrote: Consider Russia, 15% of Indian population, and a GDP about the same as ours. How do Russia and India compare in terms of ability to modify US behavior? Is Russia better-off? If so, why?
Central Asia. Oil & Gas.

Kuwait also has oil and gas.

What Kuwait does not have is the will to ruthlessly use its leverage. Nor does it have the thermo-nukes to put the fear of god into anybody.

A_Gupta wrote:
Consider China, whose economy in 2001 was the same size as the Indian economy is now. How does the India of today compare with the China of 2001 in terms of ability to modify US behavior? Was China better off than we are now? If so, why?
Walmart. Mortgages (i.e., affects everyday Americans in their wallet).

True. But Japan also exports a lot of stuff, and holds more US Treasury bonds than China. The Chinese would not be anywhere without the will to pursue their interests, and the nuclear menace to back it up.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Mar 2010 18:46

How the US rewards its favourite rent-boy Pak,with even medals for "meritorious service". I wonder what Adm.No-Man (hijra?) Bashir did for th signal honour received!

Naval chief honoured in US

WASHINGTON: Naval Staff Chief Admiral Noman Bashir was decorated on Thursday with US Legion of Merit award in recognition of his meritorious services, visionary leadership and enhancing regional maritime security. US Naval Operations Chief Admiral Gary Roughead decorated Admiral Noman Bashir with the award on behalf of American President Barack Obama. A welcome ceremony was held for the Pakistani naval chief at Washington Navy Yard, according to the Pakistani embassy. app

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 010_pg7_22

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Mar 2010 19:00

Five weeks before Partition, the [British] COS concluded:

“The area of Pakistan is strategically the most important in the continent of India and the majority of our strategic requirements could be met by an agreement with Pakistan alone. We do not therefore consider that failure to obtain the [defence] agreement with India would cause us to modify any of our requirements.” Can we see shades of the current expediencies in that comment?

How we turned a Cold War into a hot potato

For a change, some interesting facts presented by Jasoos Naqwi here.
Though they are lifted from another guys research.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2010 19:08

Pranav wrote:
shiv wrote:We cannot punish the US in any way unless we have a handle on them and some way to manipulate them.

My response in the Indo US thread

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 22 Mar 2010 22:06

the aha moment

pukis puked by uncle sam again

‘U.S. not discussing civil nuclear pact with Pak’

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 22 Mar 2010 22:15

News already posted above
Self Deleted

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 22 Mar 2010 22:43

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/world ... ?ref=world

The power behind the throne...

KARACHI, Pakistan — In a sign of the mounting power of the army over the civilian government in Pakistan, the head of the military, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, will be the dominant Pakistani participant in important meetings in Washington this week.

At home, much has been made of how General Kayani has driven the agenda for the talks. They have been billed as cabinet-level meetings, with the foreign minister as the nominal head of the Pakistani delegation. But it has been the general who has been calling the civilian heads of major government departments, including finance and foreign affairs, to his army headquarters to discuss final details, an unusual move in a democratic system.

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi has been taking a public role in trying to set the tone, insisting that the United States needs to do more for Pakistan, as “we have already done too much.” And it was at his request that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton agreed this fall to reopen talks between the countries at the ministerial level.

“General Kayani is in the driver’s seat,” said Rifaat Hussain, a professor of international relations at Islamabad University. “It is unprecedented that an army chief of staff preside over a meeting of federal secretaries.”

But the complexity of the main topics at hand — the eventual American pullout from Afghanistan, and Pakistan’s concerns about India — is expected to make for a tough round of talks

India’s growing role in Afghanistan was also high on Pakistan’s agenda. The spokesman for the Pakistani military, Gen. Athar Abbas, said Pakistan would be “conveying very clearly” its displeasure with India’s offer to help train the Afghan Army at the behest of American and NATO forces. Pakistan has made a counteroffer to train the Afghans, an offer that Pakistan knows is unlikely to be accepted but that it made to pressure Washington to stop the Indian proposal, Pakistani analysts said.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Mar 2010 23:09

Paki can take heart, there was no electricity at the time of Holy Prohpet (SAW) or Raw-shid Khilafa time. This is the sign of Judgement night,jannat is near so time to practice even purer form of Islam and remove all signs of Kuffa from the Pacquiland i.e shut down schoolls, colleges, theatres, TVs, Radio or even cell phones, hospitals and traffic lights. Riding a donkey is more Pakiislamic than a Pajaro.

Regarding paki offer to neutralize Indian help in training ANA provides good clue to their existential fear . They moved very fast to embrace Unkil after this was conveyed to them by Massar Sam. This brings us back to the theory that Indian Defence Budget must have official allocation for Afghan Army to provide good handle on Pukes to dance on Kathak-ali tunes.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Mar 2010 23:16

Nitesh wrote:the aha moment pukis puked by uncle sam again

‘U.S. not discussing civil nuclear pact with Pak’

The original Pakistan Link article:
http://pakistanlink.org/Community/2010/Mar10/19/01.HTM

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 22 Mar 2010 23:33

Sultan Bashiruddin Mehmood is a pioneer in the development of nuclear technology in Pakistan. But in 1980, as a senior director of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, he "recommended that djinns [or genies], being fiery creatures, ought to be tapped as a free source of energy. By this means, a final solution to Pakistan's energy problems would be found."

Biggest scientific joke in the history of science .
This is the first time I saw something funny coming from as rational thing as science.
Even Einstein could not desist himself from issuing a fatwa for Israel to nuke pakis .

I think we really insult pigs by equating them with pakis...
we should not indulge in animal (pig) abuse .

OMG its frustrating from a scientific viewpoint ,,that some *&$&% could deteriorate every logic to such an extent that it ceases to be logic,.

and these porkis do it everyday and we have listen and show patience .

forget about science no one could realy make these &&&$%^$ radical islamists understand anything at all, except they could only understand $%#$% and illiterate $%#%*& from some illiterate #*&**&

I wonder how the GoI officials talk with them in the backdoor negotiations ..???

they will never listen, just nuke them and get rid of this nonsense nation and its nonsense nonsense, hurting our progress.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Mar 2010 00:12

kmkraoind wrote:
arun wrote: 20-hour loadshedding, power shortfall reaches 5,000MW
Tell the common abduls that along with islamic izzat Pak army is selling the power to Afgan based US troops for money.

Manufactured power crises??

Why not feed the gwadar power coming from iran to the rest of the country also?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=101025

Iran offers Pakistan electricity at much lower than RPP rates
Updated at: 1945 PST, Thursday, March 18, 2010
ISLAMABAD: Iran has offered Pakistan 2200 MW electricity at 3 times cheaper rates compared to those of RPPs.

Iran’s ambassador to Pakistan Mashallah Shakri in an exclusive talk with Geo News said Iran is ready to increase the offer of 1100 MW electricity to 2200 MW. But, to avail it Pakistan will have to build an appropriate infrastructure, he added.

He said Iran is exporting power to Turkey, Armenia and Afghanistan and its price is immensely attractive for Pakistan.

Pakistan can obtain financial assistance for this project from international financial institutions or Islamic Development Bank, the Iranian ambassador said. Iran may also consider provision of the required financing, he added.

He said Iran is already supplying power to Gwadar.

Mashallah Shakri said he has held a number of meetings with the officials of Water and Power Ministry and PEPCO but so far no solid progress has been made in this regard.

James B · Post by **James B** » 23 Mar 2010 00:34

In impoverished Pakistan, millions of children forgo classrooms for hard labor

At least 10 million children are believed to be working in Pakistan at a variety of jobs, including some of the hardest and most poorly-paid.

James B · Post by **James B** » 23 Mar 2010 00:57

Pakistan forces are inefficient compared to the US: Abida

LAHORE: Pakistani armed forces are inefficient when compared to the US armed forces and the Pakistani nation cannot afford the large size of the armed forces, Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) leader Syeda Abida Hussain said on Sunday.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 23 Mar 2010 02:19

deleted

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 23 Mar 2010 02:41

"We are the boss. And we tell the world how it is going to be...", say the Pakis.

From TIME:
How Pakistani Help Gets in Karzai's Way
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 22,00.html

The upshot, says Thomas Ruttig, a director of Afghanistan Analysts Network, an international think tank in Kabul, is that Pakistan has skillfully put the breaks on the peace process, just as an international consensus, led by the Europeans, is building toward ending NATO'S nine-year conflict with the Taliban through negotiation. "Pakistan would rather there be no talks than talks without their control," says Ruttig.

So, what does Pakistan want? A senior Afghan diplomat says that when Karzai flew to Islamabad on March 11, he was told by Pakistan's army chief, Ashraf Parvez Kiyani, that Pakistan will nudge the Taliban into future peace talks with Karzai only when the Afghan President starts curtailing the growing influence of India, Pakistan's regional rival, in Afghanistan. Also, according to these sources, Pakistan wants to see a greater Pashtun representation in Kabul, not only Taliban but also two other insurgent groups, the Haqqani network, which operates in eastern Afghanistan, and former warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's group. Both Haqqani and Hekmatyar have long-standing ties with Pakistani's intelligence services.

Now A$$faq Kiyani might be all happy and smug at having so much leverage over the world right now, but there is still this small matter of Quetta being on fire right now:

Quetta in bloodbath
http://thefrontierpost.com.pk/News.aspx?ncat=ed&nid=52

It is now for months on end that this seat of the provincial power is in the throes of this horrific bloodletting. Scarcely a day goes by when the city doesn’t witness a violent killing in target shootings, sectarian violence, criminal assaults and insurgent attacks. And not just civilians are getting mowed down. Security personnel too are being targeted fatally or wounded critically. And it is not just settlers falling prey. The sons of the soil too are being attacked in no lesser measure.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 23 Mar 2010 02:48

Well maybe I was wrong about Quetta: It IS PAKISTAN.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Mar 2010 03:14

let us assume that unkil and chamchas pull out of afghanistan. paquis rejoice and phyrr ak47's and in a few days time a full on civil war starts in afghanistan again. karzai is found hanging from a lampost (or most of him anyway) and the black turbans are out in force. is kiyanahin going to be the guarantor of peace? will not the TTP get equally emboldened and go for a putsch in paquiland? will it not be time for the munafiq fauj to be swept aside with the true mujahideen?

if evil banias keep the fence strong and thick, will not the blowback consume all of paquistan?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 23 Mar 2010 03:55

Pakistan pushes US for nuclear technology deal

Pakistan craves a nuclear deal because it aspires to parity with India, say analysts.

It bristles with indignation over the perceived special treatment accorded to India, which it believes has upset the regional balance of power in South Asia.

Prof Shaun Gregory, director of the Pakistan security research unit at Bradford University, said: "Through the deal, India became a de facto member of the nuclear club and Pakistan doesn't understand why it wasn't offered the same thing. Pakistan has to position itself as an equal to India."

While Pakistan and India used to be bracketed together, Pakistan is now lumped in with Afghanistan under "Af-Pak", a diplomatic relegation, while India is lauded as a growing power.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 23 Mar 2010 03:59

Worth noting, if only because Shrilleen's nutty rag is a mouthpiece of that homogeneous entity called ISI+LeT+PakiArmy, and it puts out what Kiyani and like cannot say aloud themselved. FWIW:

US' bias may undermine talks' strategic value

SLAMABAD – The crucial strategic dialogue, which will begin between Washington and Islamabad on March 24, is unlikely to make any major headway largely because of the US’ bias in addressing Pakistan’s national security concerns.

Background interviews and discussions with credible diplomatic and military sources revealed to TheNation that the US’ diplomatic posturing ahead of the high calibre strategic dialogue suggested that the US’s bias towards Pakistan vis-a-vis India would not let the talks to obtain some strategic value.

“The strategic dialogue process would be of no meaning, as the US authorities failed to address Pakistan’s national security concerns relating to India”, military sources said.

They were of the view that despite some US concessions to Pakistan as consequence of the KLB Act, future of bilateral co-operation between the two countries would largely depend on the value of the strategic dialogue in addressing Pakistan’s security concerns.

“The US has ostensibly taken position that it would not address Pakistan’s concerns relating to India, which shows the level sincerity being exhibited by the US officials in addressing Pakistan’s national security concerns”, a source said. It added that the US’ lollypops to Pakistan would not be helpful in addressing Pakistan’s concerns relating to strategic balance in the region until the US recognises Pakistan as a legitimate nuclear armed state.

The sources were of the view that the US’ image in Pakistan could only be improved by building a trustworthy and long-term relations and that were possible only how the US addresses Pakistan’s concerns relating to its national security.

link

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 23 Mar 2010 04:58

Pakistan gas pipeline is Iran's lifeline

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 23 Mar 2010 06:19

Sheikh Rashid using the "B" word. No not that, the other B word.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 23 Mar 2010 06:24

Gerard wrote:Pakistan gas pipeline is Iran's lifeline

In other words, TSP will use the bogey of the Iran gas pipeline to bargain for a nuclear deal with Unkil.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2010 06:28

arun wrote: 20-hour loadshedding, power shortfall reaches 5,000MW

This may be a "planted" news item to coincide with Pak US "strategic dialog" to make the case for nuclear power.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2010 06:32

V_Raman wrote:i am beginning to think that there is nothing wrong in doing an == between india/pak. we defeated pak 3 times and we sneer at every thing the world does with them!!! if this is not == spat then what else is?
<snip>
then why all the rhona-dhona on ==. if india wants to truly get out of ==, then deal with the big boys and show that you are not in the same league as your == neighbor.

Well said. The == extends into media attitudes as well. This is our real inner Pakistani - the act of doing something, Pakis trying to equal or exceed that and Indians mocking them or howling

depending Paki failure or success.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2010 06:36

kittoo wrote:From Orbat.com-

Editor is not going to waste his breath what he has been saying to the Indians for 14 years: the fundamentalists are going to come for India. After the Bombay November 2008 attack some Indians have begun to understand this.

I am grateful to editor for keeping his mouth shut. By his anal-ysis the Paki army and its actions before 2001 had nothing to do with fundamentalism and might possibly have been love bites on India? Calling the open flaunting of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan as an "increased threat" is Americanitis of the first order . Pah.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2010 06:57

Seeking nuclear parity with India, Pak re-opens Khan of worms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 712945.cms

Straining to achieve a semblance of parity with India centered on a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one New Delhi signed with the United States, Pakistan has declared its intention to re-open investigations into the proliferation activities of its nuclear mastermind A.Q.Khan.

...

The move is seen widely as a ploy to appease Washington, where there is a strong anti-Iran sentiment and continued doubts about Pakistan's bonafides as a responsible nuclear power. Pakistani officials made no secret of the motive behind the legal manoevre, saying it was meant to demonstrate to the US and other foreign countries that Pakistan had taken every possible step to block the future possibility of nuclear proliferation.

"What happened under A.Q Khan was a mistake. We are very keen to seek civil nuclear reactors from the US and we want to demonstrate to them that proliferation will neither ever be allowed or tolerated again in Pakistan," an unnamed Pakistani foreign ministry official was quoted as telling US network television.

The move follows indications from Washington that it is open to discussions with Pakistan on the nuclear energy front at the upcoming ministerial-level talks on Wednesday, although getting a civilian nuclear deal for the country with a nightmarish record of proliferation and use of terrorism as state policy will require a lot more than just bilateral goodwill.

...

Pakistan has been eager to grab the opportunity, as much to showcase its idea of strategic parity with India than any real desire to address its energy problems, with doubts about its wherewithal to buy and absorb nuclear power reactors in the short term. The run-up to the March 24 talks has been full of horror stories about power outages across Pakistan.

...

On Monday, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton set the stage for the bilateral talks by declaring ''Pakistan is close to my heart'' in a video message she sent out on the occasion of Pakistan’s National Day, which falls on March 23.

Wearing Pakistan’s green colors, Clinton said the United States is ''supporting Pakistan's efforts to...defeat the extremist groups who threaten Pakistan, the region, and even our own country.. this (first ministerial-level strategic) dialogue will be an opportunity to forge even closer ties between our nations.''

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2010 07:00

Pak wants Indian response to its roadmap before next FS talks

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 713116.cms

Under immense international pressure, India agreed to foreign secretary level dialogue with Pakistan but Islamabad cleverly seems to have put the ball back in India's court.

On Monday, Pakistan foreign office spokesperson Abdul Basit told TOI that the next round of talks could take place only if India responded to the roadmap its foreign secretary Salman Bashir presented before India during the talks with his Indian counterpart Nirupama Rao in February.

The roadmap, Basit said, comprised "meaningful" interaction for resumption of the composite dialogue process. It is a Catch-22 situation because, as government officials continue to maintain, India will not entertain any discussion for resumption of the full-fledged composite dialogue process at this stage.

"It is not Pakistan but India which has to respond to facilitate the next round of talks. We want India's response to the roadmap we had given to them. India has to act for the full scale resumption of dialogue between the two countries,'' Basit told TOI.

Rao had said after her meeting with Bashir on February 25 that the Pakistani foreign secretary had told her that he would like her to visit Pakistan, but Islamabad has not followed it up with any formal invitation.

"We want meaningful cooperation and interaction through the roadmap we have given to India. They know all about the roadmap and it is now up to them,'' Basit said when asked if there was reluctance on the part of Pakistan in further continuing with foreign secretary level dialogue only. NSA Shivshankar Menon had said last week that going back to composite dialogue "doesn't make sense'' because "we have to learn from history''.

...

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2010 07:06

The riots

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=230532

Interior Minister Rehman Malik has accused people from "outside" Islamabad for creating the mayhem. Does this mean it is illegal for a citizen of Rawalpindi joining a protest march in Islamabad? Had the interior minister stayed a few more minutes on the site, he certainly would have discovered a foreign hand or two behind these riots.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2010 07:14

Paki economic growth

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=230530

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2010 07:24

India behind Balochistan unrest, Malik tells Senate

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=27937

“I will show the members the passports of the persons (involved in target killings) and they will also know as to which country is issuing them visas,” he added. About the issue of missing persons, he said when he had taken charge of the office, it was said that 6,000 people from Balochistan had gone missing and the list was later reduced to 1,100 missing persons. He also highlighted efforts of the government for the recovery of the missing persons.

Malik said most of the missing persons were getting training in Afghanistan, adding 40 of them were currently present in Dubai. “Those involved in target killings in Balochistan are neither Balochis nor Pakhtuns or Punjabis, but there is a conspiracy against Pakistan’s sovereignty,” he added.

...

He said the availability of 100MW of electricity from Iran would be materialised next year, while it would take at least five years to complete work on getting 1,000MW of electricity from Iran.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Mar 2010 07:29

shiv wrote:
arun wrote: 20-hour loadshedding, power shortfall reaches 5,000MW
This may be a "planted" news item to coincide with Pak US "strategic dialog" to make the case for nuclear power.

Another editorial

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_1

Editorial: Electricity woes

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 23 Mar 2010 09:30

shiv wrote:From Orbat.com-

Editor is not going to waste his breath what he has been saying to the Indians for 14 years: the fundamentalists are going to come for India. After the Bombay November 2008 attack some Indians have begun to understand this.

I am grateful to editor for keeping his mouth shut. By his anal-ysis the Paki army and its actions before 2001 had nothing to do with fundamentalism and might possibly have been love bites on India? Calling the open flaunting of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan as an "increased threat" is Americanitis of the first order . Pah.

I am not disagreeing with you, just saying that the editor is an Indian and I've found him quite patriotic towards India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Mar 2010 09:48

There is a raging controversy in DT these days after Ishtiaq Ahmed wrote that "The tribal warriors quickly forgot the mission they were supposed to achieve, and succumbed prey to a vice deeply rooted in their culture and history — looting, pillaging and raping."

Quite a few, including Farhat Taj, have been offended by the above. Ishtiaq Ahmed has responded as follows

If someone were to ask me to tell what really was the bottom line in my op-ed ‘The 1947-48 Kashmir War’ (Daily Times, March 16, 2010), I would not hesitate a minute — it was to establish that the Kashmir War of 1947-48 was an irresponsible adventure.

Tribal lashkars were again in currency at the time of the partition of India. I have personally collected evidence of such hordes attacking Hindus and Sikhs in Jhelum, Gujrat and Lahore in July-August 1947. Again in 1965, when we were at war with India the qabailis (tribals) came down to Lahore for jihad. When they realised that it would entail getting strafed from the air by Indian fighter jets, they refused to move towards Wagah. Instead they turned on the shopkeepers of Lahore, taking away their things, eating without paying and generally creating a serious law and order situation. Altaf Gauhar has vividly described such scenes in his book on Ayub Khan. I am myself witness to that episode because I was in Lahore at that time.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 23 Mar 2010 10:04

Wow. As expected, here is a Paki Hail Mary before the "strategic talks" with Unkil Sam.

Pl. allow me to post in full for now... This is very revealing, in many diff angles.

U.S. Sees Hope in Pakistan Requests for Help --
In Document, Islamabad Seeks Military and Civil Aid from Washington; Perceived as Exchange for Crackdown on Taliban
By MATTHEW ROSENBERG And PETER SPIEGEL
Latest from the WSJ

Pakistan sent a 56-page document to the U.S. ahead of strategic talks scheduled for Wednesday, seeking expanded military and economic aid in what some American officials believe is an implicit offer to crack down in return on the Afghan Taliban.

The previously undisclosed document includes requests ranging from U.S. help to alleviate Pakistan's chronic water and power shortages to pleas for surveillance aircraft and support in developing the country's civilian nuclear program.

U.S. officials say the document and the talks surrounding it could help redefine one of America's thorniest foreign-policy relationships, if it leads to a serious Pakistani clampdown on the Taliban.

The Taliban uses Pakistan, a U.S. ally, as its rear base in its fight against American and allied forces in neighboring Afghanistan, and has often relied on clandestine support from elements of Pakistan's national security establishment. But in the past few months, Pakistan has rounded up several senior leaders of the Afghan Taliban on its soil, and last year it began a series of offensives against the Pakistan offshoot of the Afghan movement.

U.S. officials are keen to see those moves broadened as a key to shifting the momentum of the Afghan war. "Right now, we're looking at something that could deliver a big part of our success in Afghanistan," said a senior U.S. military official, speaking of the document and talks.

The document outlines a range of aid Pakistan is seeking from the U.S., say American and Pakistani officials who have seen it or been briefed on its contents. A high-level meeting between senior Pakistani and U.S. officials in Washington on Wednesday aims to stitch together their fraying alliance.

Many of Pakistan's requests build on longstanding demands for more U.S. assistance. But officials on both sides say that by detailing them in a single comprehensive document, Islamabad is trying to signal its willingness to align its interests with those of Washington, its vision for a partnership—and its price.

Among the requests is greater cooperation between its spy agency and U.S. intelligence outfits, more helicopter gunships and other military hardware needed to battle its own Taliban insurgency, and improved surveillance technology, such as pilotless drone aircraft.

Pakistan also wants a civilian nuclear energy cooperation deal with the U.S., and a role in any future peace talks between the Western-backed Afghan government and the Taliban.

Many U.S. officials remain wary of such deals with Pakistan. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S., Pakistan has received more than $17.5 billion in U.S. aid, the majority earmarked for the military and security, while insisting it was doing all it could to combat the Taliban and its Islamist allies.

U.S. officials have complained that Pakistan's intelligence services continued to offer clandestine support for the Taliban, which it has long viewed as a proxy it could use to secure its influence in Afghanistan and keep archrival India out after an eventual U.S. withdrawal.

"Everything with the Pakistanis is two steps forward and one step back," said a senior U.S. military official involved in talks with the Pakistanis. "Anybody who expects straight linear progress out of a strategic dialogue between these two nations is really kind of naïve. What it will be is a step forward and then we'll see where they go with it."

Pakistan's fears of being outflanked by India, which has forged close ties to the Afghan government, are reflected in the document's indirect language about regional security issues, Pakistani officials say. The document raises concerns about India's effort to modernize its military, in part through buying U.S. equipment and weapons. It urges Washington to take a direct role in reviving the peace process between India and Pakistan, which stalled after the November 2008 terror attacks on Mumbai.

If officials this week can begin setting the U.S. relationship with Pakistan on a footing of greater trust and military cooperation, it would mark a success for the Obama administration's foreign policy at a time when key relations with other nations, from ally Israel to nemesis Iran, are strained.

In response to the document, officials say the Pentagon is considering up to $500 million in additional military aid to Pakistan, paid through the Coalition Support Fund, an account used to reimburse Pakistan for military activities taken in support of U.S. operations in Afghanistan. Last year, the U.S. provided $2.8 billion in economic and security aid to Islamabad.

A spokesman for Pakistan's military, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, confirmed the document's existence and the military's input, but he declined to discuss its contents. Aides to Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Pentagon's primary interlocutor with Pakistan's military leadership, confirmed his staff had received the document and were analyzing it.

Michael Hammer, a spokesman for the National Security Council, said the White House looked forward to this week's talks, but would not comment on any specific proposals made during meetings between "scores" of senior U.S. officials and Pakistani counterparts over the last year.

"During the course of those discussions, a considerable number of ideas, initiatives, and opportunities have been brought up by both sides," Mr. Hammer said. "We are not prepared to comment on any one set of ideas other than to say that we are encouraged by an open and robust dialogue."

The document comes out of months of delicate and often secret negotiations between top political and military officials from both countries., to continue Wednesday at a so-called Strategic Dialogue in Washington. The meeting is to cover issues from the fight against Islamist militants to bolstering Pakistan's struggling economy.Among officials slated to attend are Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, the head of Pakistan's army.

"Pakistan and the United States have been partners and allies without always having a complete understanding of each other's strategic and security priorities," said Pakistan's ambassador in Washington, Husain Haqqani, in a telephone interview. "This time we want to build an understanding that can serve as a foundation for the day-to-day relationship."

It remains unclear what has fueled Pakistan's recent apparent shift on the Taliban. Some Western officials believe recent coalition gains in Afghanistan have prompted the Pakistanis to hedge in a new direction. Afghan officials and other Western officials say the Pakistanis may be trying to take control of nascent Taliban peace efforts by detaining the most pragmatic insurgent leaders.

The senior U.S. military official involved in recent talks with Pakistani officials , including Gen. Kayani,said the new seriousness in Pakistan's approach seems to be part of a realization that the U.S. has a limited time frame for directly assisting Islamabad. The official said Gen. Kayani in recent talks has focused on getting U.S. assistance to efforts that the Afghan and Pakistani governments can sustain as U.S. forces and investment in Afghanistan wane.

Some of Pakistan's requests are likely non-starters. India has steadfastly refused any outside mediation in its decades-long dispute with Pakistan. And U.S. officials say a civilian nuclear deal would be a tough sell given Pakistan's history of nuclear weapons proliferation.

To assuage the Pakistanis, the State Department has suggested setting up a bilateral working group to discuss the issue, in essence pushing a decision into the distant future. But U.S. officials, especially in those in the Pentagon, are eager to encourage Pakistan's re-engagement after nearly two years of growing tension between the allies,and say many of the other requests may be doable.

The U.S. may, for example, be willing to give Pakistan drone aircraft, although not the high-end, armed Predator and Reaper drones that have been used by the Central Intelligence Agency to kill hundreds of militants in Pakistan's tribal areas, according to a U.S. official.

The official said Pakistan already gets a few hours a week of surveillance time on those drones, and they're often "not looking at the same targets we'd necessarily want to be looking at."

"We want the U.S. to recognize Pakistan's nuclear status and give us assurances not to undermine the (weapons) program," said a senior Pakistani military officer who serves as an aide to Gen. Kayani. "Energy security is crucial, and we need U.S. help."

Among the proposals the Pentagon is considering is asking Pakistan to allow the U.S. to support expanded Pakistani counterterrorism efforts within their country. Currently, about 150 U.S. Special Operations forces are in Pakistan training the Pakistani military in counterinsurgency tactics. In addition, the U.S. may press the Pakistani government to end what they view as a negative information campaign against the U.S. by elements of Pakistan's powerful intelligence agency, the Inter-Service Intelligence directorate.

—Tom Wright and Zahid Hussain in Islamabad and Jay Solomon in Washington contributed to this article.
Write to Matthew Rosenberg at [email protected] and Peter Spiegel at [email protected]

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Mar 2010 10:08

Coming Visit .... in Pictures in various newspapers!
(The Reference of 2004 is one up wrt to Inida/US warm up start of 2005 talks)

Don't know why they selected these as background:

But this picture with caption: and under the headline:
Obama pledges to work with ‘peace-loving’ Pakistanis
(Wishing Pakistan day takes the cake):

(The picture has NOTHING to do with peace loving paki's - it is the announcement of the passing of Health care bill)

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Mar 2010 10:20

Amber G. wrote:
(The picture has NOTHING to do with peace loving paki's - it is the announcement of the passing of Health care bill)

It is not about news. Indian media has become a image making tool and source of disinformation