Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 2010

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shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

While the Pakistan government has been struggling to collect funds for the flood-victims, the JuD, which masterminded the November 2008 Mumbai carnage, claimed that it raises 120 million rupees daily, which is equal to the total amount the Prime Minister relief fund has with it.
That is USD 1.5 million a day, Fine, the Pakis don't need money.

More seriously jihad against India was supported by the twin conditions of a settled population paying zakat while sending sons for jihad. Jihad against India meant feeding, training, salaries and compensation for the families of the dead.

The Paki army/ISI have supported that - possibly with advisors and a slush fund. In addition the paki army's extracurricular activities have included import of exactly the same paper as is used by the makers of Indian currency (It is stuipid of India to have to import the paper - we need to make it in India) and the creation of crores of INR of fake Indian currency. These of course are presses that probably do not cost too much to run - but do need some power and infrastructure.

I suspect that the major part of Pakistan's recovery will take two years (balls to the people who are homeless and suffering - they don't count in Pakistan) - although some things will take longer. That should give us a 1-2 year window to squeeze Pakistani testimonials. Note that India could be affected by flood or drought - but the whole idea of sending up civilian satellites was to mitigate the effects of that rather than phyrring North Korean mijjiles with Baki green paint and saying mine bigger.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

Anujan wrote:Three tweets of Salman Taseer (Pakjab Governor) are worth mentioning

1. 3.6 billion $ in pledges.
This is a typical Bakistani tactic of following up a few months later by saying "You pledged so much - but only gave so little. You broke your promise. So I am under no obligation to keep my promises"

..ho hum. So what's new?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Brad Goodman »

Pakistan faces hard choices amid budget constraints
(Reuters) - Pakistan faces hard choices as it decides how to allocate scarce resources for rebuilding following devastating floods, a senior International Monetary Fund official said Monday on the first day of economic talks with Pakistani officials.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Brad Goodman »

Washington Orders Shahbaz Airbase Saved, not Pakistan's Flood Victims
Addressing the UN on August 19, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Washington would increase its donation to $150 million, $92 million to the UN, more for security than humanitarian efforts, Senator John Kerry (Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman) underscoring America's purpose on a visit to Shahbaz Airbase, saying:

"The objective is humanitarian, but obviously there is a national security interest. We do not want additional jihadis, extremists, coming out of a crisis."
Reports say that "the US Air Force has denied the relief agencies use of the Shahbaz Airbase (it controls) for the distribution of aid and assistance. Soldiers of the Pakistan army, a federal minister and the administration of Sindh province are blamed for the incident involving Shahbaz Airbase at Jacobabad district" where flood waters were diverted to save the base.
Media reports said in 2001, the Musharraf government gave America control of Shahbaz to wage war on terrorism, the presence of army soldiers during the Jamali bypass breach a clear sign "that the Pakistan army (was) ordered to save the airbase." It meant flooding out hundreds of thousands of people, now stranded on their own without help.
shows how TSPA sells its abduls for a price. No wonder Chidu was recommending in TOI that we buy them out
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Brad Goodman »

Why Pakis should have rejected Indian aid with reasons

Acceptance of Indian aid—adding insult to injury
Last edited by Brad Goodman on 24 Aug 2010 06:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

krithivas wrote:If World must donate $3B towards Pakistani flood relief, especially to preempt Islamic radicals from providing equivalent relief, How come the Pakistani Islamic radicals have access to $3B equivalent?
That's a good question. This also means, perhaps, that the world must not help Pakistan. Let the jihadis spend the money for flood aid rather than for destructive purposes because they are sure to receive this 3B USD, come hell or high water (pun intended). The fear that it would swell the jihadi population is misleading because their population would swell anyway by the mismanagement of Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

abhischekcc wrote: This means that the west has lost the propoganda war before it even started.
The West (especially the USA) must have realized by now that they lost the propaganda war a long time back in ummah countries, especially in wannabe-ummah-leader, the Land of the Purest. Billions and billions have been poured into Pakistan and yet, Pakistanis, to a man & a woman, hate the West especially the Great Satan. If they thought that through flood aid, they could win back sympathy, they were deluding themselves. The West could have used it only as a debating point, possibly next time Ms. Clinton visits Pakistan and convenes yet another grievance-hearing-session, but beyond that there would be no other purpose served.
This leads us to the question - the anglo americans will start wondering - what is the cost of propping up pakistan and what is the utility, and is there a fair tradeoff between the two?
I am sure that during the last 60 odd years, they have debated this many times. They obviously feel that there is some utility in persevering with TSP.
The floods have disrupted many military and AF bases in pakistan. Even when the waters recede, the pakistani army will be torn between providing aid and fighting militants.
Now, that would give another opportunity for the 3½ to justify more funds and arms for the PA.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

This is a lifafa article intended to put the blame on Americans. Expect an American denial soon.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by saip »

The Daily Mail had reported earlier too that Indian macabre plans included the simultaneous release of water in the Kabul River from the Indian engineers’ controlled Sarobi Dam in Afghanistan and the half a dozen dams in Indian Occupied Kashmir, flooding the Chenab and Indus. While the first wave wreaked havoc but Pakistani authorities failed to challenge India for its heinous crime against humanity, New Delhi again released a massive 18,000 cusec feet of water from a dam in Indian-occupied Kashmir into Pakistan, prompting fresh fears of floods in the plains of Punjab and Sindh
I wish India has this capability. THis donkey does not even know the meaning of MASSIVE. When everyone is talking about a million cusecs he calls mere 18000 massive!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

krisna wrote:
From the article--
The JuD, under its latest humanitarian face Falah-e-Insaniat, has established numerous relief camps in Khyber Pakhtunkwa province in its bid to push through its anti-west ideology amidst the survivors of the devastating deluge.

While the Pakistan government has been struggling to collect funds for the flood-victims, the JuD, which masterminded the November 2008 Mumbai carnage, claimed that it raises 120 million rupees daily, which is equal to the total amount the Prime Minister relief fund has with it.
The Pakistani Government, by abdicating responsibility to JuD, is violating the UNSC Resolution. In fact, it is defying the UNSC. Secondly, this could be a ploy by the PA to restore the image of its ally, the LeT. The JuD volunteers could very well be PA itself in the best case or JuD could be supported logistically by the PA in the worst case.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

SSridhar wrote: I am sure that during the last 60 odd years, they have debated this many times. They obviously feel that there is some utility in persevering with TSP.
Wise words. I am certain there is a core group in the Pakistan establishment that is fiercely loyal to the US - to earn this loyalty in turn. Perhaps the reasons are not that difficult to find. Between Diego Garcia and South Korea - the only base that the US has is in Pakistan. Iran is hostile. China and India are too independent. Myanmar is hostile. Sri Lanka stands to suffer too much from Indian pressure if they give the US a base. Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand are too independent. Vietnam is out. Laos is landlocked.

I think the sub text that is left out every time people talk of a "withdrawal from Afghanistan" is that the US will stay in Pakistan.

But if Clinton is to be believed it is clear that the US can prop up the Paki economy, but it cannot prop up 180 million Pakis. The only country which can support 180 million Pakis by means of trade is..

You guessed it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

Neela wrote:All work , no pay makes Pakiland's unemployment rate 5.5% - Now beat that rest of the world and kaffir India!
However, after examining how the unemployment rate was worked out, the lower rate of 5.5 per cent loses much of its charm.
It is one more deception like only 17% Pakistanis are below-poverty-line. When the population growth is 3.3%, when the economy is shrinking, when nobody is investing in Pakistan, when water scarcity is threatening agriculture and cotton (which alone accounts for 85% of GDP) leading to layoffs, when terrorism and Islamism are occupying everyone's attention and when even Friends of Pakistan are unwilling to help, such a low figure of unemployment can be only a lie.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

arun wrote: The ongoing Muslim holy month of Ramzan / Ramadan certainly seems to be no barrier for arresting demonstrations of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan :roll: .
No war during Ramzan is a meaningless sound byte designed to stop people for a moment while they are hoodwinked by the sound byte from seeing reality - like "Religion of peace".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

SSridhar wrote: It is one more deception like only 17% Pakistanis are below-poverty-line. When the population growth is 3.3%, when the economy is shrinking, when nobody is investing in Pakistan, when water scarcity is threatening agriculture and cotton (which alone accounts for 85% of GDP) leading to layoffs, when terrorism and Islamism are occupying everyone's attention and when even Friends of Pakistan are unwilling to help, such a low figure of unemployment can be only a lie.
Yes, and look at Wiki about the economy of Paa'staan and you will read that 35 million Pakis (20%) earn $ 10,000 a year, and 17% (10%) earn even more than that.

Pakis are such big liars that if you take the above numbers 35+17=52 million and multiply by their alleged annual income ($ 10,000 or more) and calculate per capita GDP you get a figure of more than US$ 3000 per annum. Despite this glaring inconsistency the same link puts per capita GDP as $1250.

It seems to me that Pakis think in this way:
I am the most intelligent guy on earth. If I am stupid - everyone must be more stupid that I am.. The broad base of Pakis who are accustomed to lying is so large that it will be a while before the world can comprehend the amount of lying and deception that has taken place.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by brihaspati »

There is precedence for bloodshed being justified during the "holy" periods of the year - it was excused by "Gabriel" as revealed to the founder himself on various occasions.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Muppalla »

Pakistan human cockroaches
Pakistan, you are a failed state. Not because of Zardari. Not because of America. But because you are a failed people, all of us undeserving of sympathy. We are diseased, rotten to every brain stem, world please make an impenetrable fence around us, keep us all in so we don’t spread it to other people, other countries.

These were words I posted on a social networking website. I have an unusually negative mindset these days. It happened after I saw the video of the two teenage brothers brutally clubbed to death by a crowd frenzied with blood thirst in Sialkot. The police watched gleefully. The video has blurs at certain parts, but even this sensible sensitivity does not prevent one from seeing mists of blood flaying from the heads of these teens as they are hit relentlessly, and remorselessly, again and again.

The murderous crowd was truly representative of the richness of Pakistan. Some wear jeans, others shalwar kameez, some were bearded, others clean shaven. The Pakistanis had gotten together to have some fun.

Do not be shocked. This wasn’t isolated, it’s just that the crowd wanted to make sure their orgasmic moment could be captured for later viewing, at one’s pleasure. We blame our ill-educated brethren for the barbarity we witness, but that’s a self-serving lie.

The middle and upper classes are immune to education it seems. They hold opinions of everyday violence even if they have never raised their hand at anyone. If you believe Jews are the scum of the earth, all Ahmadis deserve to die or that Hindus are inferior, well why not two teenage boys?

I want Pakistanis to feel shame, in fact a substantial loss of self-esteem would be great. This is the only way for us to begin to doubt ourselves and the incessant excuses we make. Yes, the world is right to add restrictions on our visas, to see us as dangerous. If for even a while we felt we were the cockroaches of the human race, maybe we would get to the point we stopped the lies we tell ourselves and let this continue.

The fact is, if we had real democracy, there would be no internet in Pakistan, women would not be allowed out of their homes, education would come to a standstill and we would begin a programme of killing off every minority. Thank you corrupt generals and politicians, you keep this at bay with some sense of being answerable to a world that still has some humanity in it, even if you don’t.

And please, no excuses, no excuses. Don’t give us that, “If only there was true Islam they would be better”. I think a thousand years is enough, we can’t wait longer. And there was no America in existence for most of that, or even western colonialism.

You want to know just how sociopathic we are? In response to these killings some are happy to say we deserve earthquakes and floods. Typical. Don’t change yourself, but give credit to the indiscriminate and inhumane forces of nature. The floods are a tragedy, an atrocity and should never be used to bolster an argument that really only demands self-reflection.

And please, in your self-reflection don’t call us animals, most of them are benign vegetarians. Also don’t blame Sialkot; they were just unlucky because they are subject to scrutiny. There is so much more out there.

There is such a sense of sickening moral superiority in Pakistanis, it needs to be addressed. All we care about is foreign policy, eager to point out the hypocrisies of the world, silent on our domestic, or even local life. Why should the world take what you say seriously, why should you be a regional power, or a leader in the comity of Islamic nations?

Truth is, there is only one way to get change, and it’s not hanging the people who killed these boys. It is raising your voice to contradict people who advocate death for others, no matter who they are speaking of. To internalise that murder of any kind, for anyone is wrong. Sounds easy? Well just try it.
Last edited by archan on 24 Aug 2010 16:47, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please use quotes
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by asprinzl »

All these talk about how the jihadis would easily fill in the vaccum if the gov of pakisatan and the west does not act fast is basically pure breen hog $hit. The Jihadis have no way to fill in the vacuum. They may have the low overhead organizations and may also have good and efficient even if primitive field hospitals to administer quick first aids etc.

However when it comes to providing food....where are they going to get the food? From donations from Muslim charities? Where are these Muslim charities going to get the food? From Muslim countries? All Muslim countries in the world are net importers of food including cereals, grain and meat and the world supply of these items are not available in infinite quantity nor can the production be hiked up a notch on short notice. If the amt of rice available in todays international market is 100 million tonnes and the demand for it is 99 million tonnes, just because there is a shortage of food in Satan state...the farmers producing the rice cannot increase their produciton next week!! Same goes for wheat, beef, poultry, barley corn etc. Last year all of a sudden the world was faced with a shortage of rice and price of rice went up preety high especially in east asia. This year we are hearing of probable low harvest of wheat in Russia. Which means they may import more than usual from Argentina and or Canada or even China. Which means the price of wheat as of now may be going up steadily and the quantity available for charitable purpose to Pakistan would be extremely marginal and low in quantity. Most probably whatever that is available for Pakisatan would be channeled through Unkil's or aunty's NGOs or agencies. No scope for Jihadis to get a piece of the action unless they are planning on feeding the people with dates from Egypt or Jordan or palm oil/margerine from Indonesia or Malaysia. Iraqi date production is in hell as for now. Iran is facing a rusty economic engine that is not well oiled and I don't think food from there is gonna flow into Satan state unless it is Iranian pistacious which I am sure the Pakis would be over joyed to eat.
Pakistan is going to face an extremely hellish situation in the coming weeks and months and India better be ware or there could be human wave invasion of India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by jamwal »

Is there any article/ information about how lower ranks of army are faring ? Many soldiers must have families in flood affected areas. How will floods and the mismanagement affect their loyalty towards senior ranks of Army and civilian goberment ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Pratyush »

Why Doesn't the World Care About Pakistanis?

Ans; Because they live in Pakistan.

Some gems
Pakistan is a country that no one quite gets completely, but apparently everybody knows enough about to be an expert. If you're a nuclear proliferation expert, suddenly you're an expert on Pakistan. If you're terrorism expert, ditto: expert on Pakistan. India expert? Pakistan, too then. Of South Asian origin of any kind at a think-tank, university, or newspaper? Expert on Pakistan. Angry that your parents sent you to the wrong madrassa when you were young? Expert on Pakistan.
The net result of Pakistan's own sins, and a global media that is gaga over India, is that Pakistan is always the bad guy. You'd be hard pressed to find a news story anywhere that celebrates the country's incredible scenery, diversity, food, unique brand of Islam, evolving and exciting musical tradition, or even its arresting array of sporting talent, though all those things are present in abundance.
Contrary to what many Pakistani conspiracy theorists believe, the suspicion and contempt with which the country is seen with is not deliberate or carefully calculated. It's just how things pan out when you are the perennial bad boy in a neighborhood that everyone wishes could be transformed into Scandinavia -- because after 9/11, the world cannot afford a dysfunctional ghetto in South and Central Asia anymore. Or so goes the paternalist doctrine.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by pgbhat »

India has food surplus no? wait till RIPs and WKKs are mobilized and they will start :(( about India's lukewarm response.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Pratyush »

^^^They can be countered by stating Indian requirements in the aftermath of the Bihar Drought. That ought to calm them down, if they have any sense of proportion.

But we may be asking for sun moon and every thing in between from them
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by abhischekcc »

RajeshA wrote:
archan wrote:Who knows if it indeed was unintended pun..
May be he had outsourced his speech writing to some Yindoo, who smuggled in all those puns!
You know, that is actually not impossible.

10% gives his speech to be written by a US/UK contractor or PR specialist, who hands it over to his office in home country, who hands it over to a freelance writer for $200/hr, who promptly hands it over to an Indian freelancer over elance.com for $1/page. There you go, paki I-day speech is Made In India. :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

International aid workers not allowed to go to Balochistan
However, according to the former Senator, Sanaullah Baloch, international aid workers and NGOs were still being prevented from going to Balochistan. Criticising the decision and demanding that aid be equally distributed to all four federating units of the country, he wrote in The Dawn that “the National Disaster Management Authority has banned international donor agencies, aid organisations and NGOs from directly assisting the flood-affected people of the province''.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

Pakis are such cheap mofos.

After the haiti earthquake you never saw Haitians say "Oh the Tsunami group got X dollars in Y days. Why not us?".

But Pakis the pestilential beggars do exactly that without batting an eyelid.
After the Haiti earthquake, about 3.1 million Americans using mobile phones donated $10 each to the Red Cross, raising about $31 million. A similar campaign to raise contributions for Pakistan produced only about $10,000. The amount of funding donated per person affected by the 2004 tsunami was $1249.80, and for the 2010 Haiti earthquake, $1087.33. Even for the Pakistan earthquake of 2005, funding per affected person was $388.33. Thus far, for those affected by the 2010 floods, it is $16.36 per person.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Pratyush »

WRT Baloshistan, what is it the Pakis don’t want the ROW to see??

Could it be the scale of Atrocities against the Balochies is such that the reports if out will put a severe dent on the H&D of TSP.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

To quote Prem (May Wimmens be Upon Him): "Pokroaches"
Last edited by shiv on 24 Aug 2010 09:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by svinayak »



Very interesting comment
Dear Sir,
You stated in your response "No, actually I don't, at least in the US. Most of the high tech South Asians I see are Indians. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but you sound like the kind of guy who will face facts. Let me know if you have facts/stats to prove otherwise."

I am an American who works in the computer industry here in America. I have worked with many Indians and Pakistani on large and small computer contracts. My experiences working with both groups has been mostly pleasant as they are knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful. While there are more Indians there are many Pakistani as well.

I have two observations to share;
1) Neither group seem willing to socialize with others outside of their ethnic group. This characteristic hurts them more than they realize, as in America, socializing with coworkers helps in the advancement of professional careers. However, the Pakistanis I have known do socialize to a greater degree.
2) The animosity between Indians and Pakistani that work here in America is apparent. They do not work together well. I have seen this negatively effect projects where the two groups must work together. This attitude hurts them professionally here. Given America's history of racism, we find it somewhat amusing to observe the racism between these two groups.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by CRamS »

Guys:

Just heard an NPR report on TSP flood situation, particularly Indian aid. To get a measure of institutional "neutrality" in representing facts to suit US & TSP RAPE foreign policy objective with respect to India & TSP, here is how the report roughly went:

1) Quereshi acknowledging acceptance and as a result Indians relieved that this could reduce "tensions", followed by the customary crap about India & TSP having a "strained relationship", went to war 4 times bla bla.
2) Tensions on the rise since 2008 Mumbai attacks which India "blames" on TSP "militants", and the "disputed" territory of Kashmir is at the heart of tension :-).
3) Some India institute of peace dork in Delhi quoted repeatedly doing equal equal on how India & TSP came closer during natural calamities and worked together; cited 2005 earthquake when India and TSP opened LOC for relief efforts.
4) Throughout the report, not once was there any mention of TSP sponsorship of terror, only "issues" between India & TSP.
5) Some rich fat cats at some cafe in Delhi interviewed who said India & TSP should put aside "egos" and "issues" aside and help the people in need (at least there was one female who said India does not get anything in return).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Pratyush »

shiv wrote: Pakis are such cheap mofos.

After the haiti earthquake you never saw Haitians say "Oh the Tsunami group got X dollars in Y days. Why not us?".

But Pakis the pestilential beggars do exactly that without batting an eyelid.

Shiv, they are also not realising that Haiti was such a small and poor nation that the earth quake effected every one in that country. Also took away the GOvts. Ability to help its own people. But not Pakis, they have less then 20 % the population effected, the government machinery and the Military is unaffected. Yet they are beging the ROW for more AID. The scale is completely lost on the Pakistanis or anyone making comparisons.

If it has hurt them so bad then they can forego one years expenditure on foreign military purchases. That ought to free sufficient resources to help rehabilitate the victims of the disaster.

But no they need all the hadware to deal with the Taliban Air force and the Taliban navy.


What bul$hit!!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by sum »

Understanding the Pakistani floods
M.K. Bhadrakumar

The floods have further exposed the regional, political and ethnic divisions in Pakistan.
One day in mid-April, Dr. Bernard Rieux spotted a dead rat in the building he lived in the Mediterranean city of Oran, Algeria. Thousands of rats staggered out of their hideouts in the following days and died on the streets gripped by violent convulsions, spitting blood. A fortnight later Michel, concierge of Rieux's building, was down with a strange illness. While the rats suddenly disappeared, Michel died within two days.

That is how the terrible arrival of the bubonic plague in Albert Camus' masterpiece is chronicled. Major catastrophes tiptoe unnoticed. Pakistan's flood too appeared from nowhere. When the plague first arrived, the Oranites seemed to take life for granted and couldn't grasp its full import but soon they understood they must face up to an extraordinary situation and decide on their attitudes to it. They were forced to think, reflect and discard their “unauthentic” existence.

The flood is described in cold figures — 20 per cent of Pakistan devastated; one out of five Pakistanis' lives ruined; hundreds of thousands of electric pylons, cattle, culverts and bridges perished; farmlands inundated and crops rendered unworthy. The flood is destined to become a mathematical constant sooner or later and the residue that will endure is that the millions of human beings helplessly tossed around by it have become variables.

Pakistan, especially its elite — civilian but, more importantly, the military — faces an existential choice. They need to realise, as Greek philosopher Socrates once said, that the unexamined life is not worth living and they need to react in a unique way. A major catastrophe is also an opportunity to undergo transformations. However, regrettably, the discourse of the Pakistani officials and analysts has continued to turn in its old gyre. The well-known Pakistani journalist, Ahmed Rashid, typically summed it up last week as “an unparalleled national security challenge for the country, the region and the international community. It has become clear this week that, unless major aid is forthcoming immediately and international diplomatic effort is applied to improving Pakistan's relations with India, social and ethnic tensions will rise and there will be food riots.”

Mr. Rashid added: “Large parts of the country that are now cut off will be taken over by the Pakistani Taliban and affiliated extremist groups, and governance will collapse. The risk is that Pakistan will become what many have long predicted — a failed state with nuclear weapons… All of this will dramatically loosen the state's control over outlying areas, in particular those bordering Afghanistan, which could be captured quickly by local Taliban.” Mr. Rashid, of course, concludes predictably, taking a swipe at India and seeking the West's mediatory “help” in India-Pakistan relations: “India has failed to respond to the crisis and there remains bitter animosity between the two countries, particularly because India blames the current uprising in Indian Kashmir on Pakistan — even though Indian commentators admit that it is more indigenous than Pakistan-instigated.”

From the above we get a fair idea of the thought processes in Rawalpindi within the military establishment: Pakistan's coffers are empty and the international community should loosen its purse-strings; the military is overstretched with relief work and as Mr. Rashid put it, “the army is unlikely to be in a position even to hold the areas along the Afghan border;” Pakistan's stability which is linked to tensions with India ought to be the concern of the West whose mediation on Kashmir, therefore, is an imperative need so as “to sort out acute differences over their river systems.” Fortunately, Mr. Rashid stops just short of accusing India of engineering the floods.

The shocking reality is that there has been no trace of any new thinking. The Pakistani military continues to be in a game of one-upmanship with the civilian leadership. Unsurprisingly, the military's work of rescuing flood victims is a visible act and politicians cannot match that. As a perceptive young Pakistani scholar Ahsan Butt put it: “This needs to be understood because to the extent that this is purely a logistical crisis, the military almost has an ‘unfair' advantage in that it has the better toolbox for the immediate aftermath … To use a cricketing analogy, batting is a lot easier at the non-striker's end.” The fact remains that the military establishment has excellent spokesmen in the mainstream media, especially the top news channels, and the media invariably apply exacting standards to the civilian leaders while, for example, the military's institutionalised corruption is simply ignored or downplayed.

Given the gigantic scale of reconstruction that lies ahead and the tardy performance standards of the civilian governments of the South Asian region, the Pakistani political elite will inevitably appear chaotic and inept in its response to the floods, while any further drain of support for the already-weak civilian government can only tighten the powerful military's grip on the power structure. This means that for the foreseeable future, the military will continue to operate with full autonomy on foreign and security policies of core concern, although the scope for conflictual relationship with the civilian leadership or the launch of a coup will not necessarily increase — and may diminish — in the given situation of a fundamental imbalance in the calculus of power.

To be sure, the floods have further exposed the regional, political and ethnic divisions. Most certainly, there will be nasty disputes in the coming period over the allocation of aid, especially on the part of the smaller provinces, as regards the Punjabi-dominated establishment's perceived self-aggrandisement. On the other hand, in Punjab, the main Opposition, Pakistan Muslim League (N), is in charge and it would get into a blame game with the federal government over the inevitable acts of commission and omission in relief and reconstruction. In fact, the signs are already there.

A core issue concerns the strategic impact of the floods on regional security issues devolving upon the United-States led war in Afghanistan. A mixed picture emerges. To quote an expert in the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, “The U.S. has an opportunity in this disaster to do even more to demonstrate to the people and leaders of Pakistan just how helpful the U.S. and the American people can be to move Pakistan forward. But, at the same time, the problems that Pakistan faces, in the immediate near-term as well as the longer term, have simply been compounded. Everything that the U.S. already thought was going to be very difficult.”

In financial terms, it means a need arises to reassess the disbursal of the $7.5-billion aid package under the Kerry-Lugar-Berman legislation — shifting attention from long-term projects to the immediate priorities. In political terms, the impact will be felt on several templates. One, there are no means of divining whether with all the King's men and all the King's horses deployed in Pakistan, Uncle Sam's image would still get burnished in the Pakistani eye. Probably, it is a long haul for the U.S.' public diplomacy — even with George Sores brought into the act. A July 29 Pew Global Attitudes Project estimated that 59 per cent of Pakistanis regarded America as an enemy country. In short, the fragility of the U.S.-Pakistan relationship remains a fact of life.

On the contrary, USS Peleliu arrived off the coast near Karachi on August 12 along with helicopters and a thousand Marines who have since been deployed and Pakistan hasn't erupted in flames or protest marches. Not only will this “collaboration,” to borrow the words of noted author Shuja Nawaz, “go a long way toward building up relationships among rank-and-file service members.” It is also an extraordinary sight to see the Marines involved in relief work alongside some controversial Islamic charity organisations such as the Falah-e-Insaniat Foundation linked to the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba and the social welfare wings of the rabidly “anti-American” Jamaat-e-Islami.
The million-dollar question indeed is what will happen to the Pakistani military's operations in the Afghan-Pakistan border region, especially the North Waziristan area. Even the U.S. special representative for AfPak, Richard Holbrooke, wryly said, “It is an equal-opportunity disaster, and military operations have effectively faded away.” The bitter truth is that the U.S. is fated to learn — even if Mr. Holbrooke is loath to admit it — that aid will not address the real security threats in Pakistan. The high probability is that the U.S.-led coalition will soon find itself out on a limb in Afghanistan with the Pakistani military nowhere seen cracking down on the Haqqani insurgents and their allies ensconced in FATA. The implications are, simply put, too stunning to want to think about — although the flood waters may help wash away the WikiLeaks documents detailing not only how the ISI sympathises with the Taliban but they also meet to plan joint actions.
tarun
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by tarun »

shiv wrote:
The Paki army/ISI have supported that - possibly with advisors and a slush fund. In addition the paki army's extracurricular activities have included import of exactly the same paper as is used by the makers of Indian currency (It is stuipid of India to have to import the paper - we need to make it in India) and the creation of crores of INR of fake Indian currency. These of course are presses that probably do not cost too much to run - but do need some power and infrastructure.
OT - The need is to move away from cash economy. What prevents India from printing some napaki currency in an equal-equal measure
SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

From Understanding the Pakistani floods by M.K. Bhadrakumar posted by sum above,
The flood is described in cold figures — 20 per cent of Pakistan devastated; one out of five Pakistanis' lives ruined; {20% of land mass, even if assumed to be the truth, does not translate into one out of five Pakistani}
. . .The shocking reality is that there has been no trace of any new thinking. The Pakistani military continues to be in a game of one-upmanship with the civilian leadership. Unsurprisingly, the military's work of rescuing flood victims is a visible act and politicians cannot match that. {This is the fate of Pakistan from Day One, where an unruly Army uncontrolled by civilian dispensation, pits itself against the politicians. It plays to its advantage.} . . . Most certainly, there will be nasty disputes in the coming period over the allocation of aid, especially on the part of the smaller provinces,{Balochistan has already fired the first salvo as I posted above} as regards the Punjabi-dominated establishment's perceived self-aggrandisement. . . . The high probability is that the U.S.-led coalition will soon find itself out on a limb in Afghanistan with the Pakistani military nowhere seen cracking down on the Haqqani insurgents and their allies ensconced in FATA. {Haven't the Americans already found it out ? After all, the WikiLeaks extensively describe the situation and Kayani for almost a year now is refusing to act against the Haqqanis. The recent revelation by the ISI on why they 'arrested' Baradar confirms the Pakistani approach to Afghanistan and how they are using the Taliban and the warlords like Haqqani.}
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by wig »

meanwhile the telegraph publsihed in the UK has a story on Altaf Hussain of the MQM asking for a Military Coup
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ption.html
Altaf Hussain, the leader of the Muttahida Quami Movement (MQM), said the political establishment's lacklustre response to the severe flooding should provoke an uprising.

He called on "patriotic generals to initiate martial-law-like steps against federal politicians" and legal proceedings against those "who save their crops and divert floods towards the localities as well as villages of the poor".

In a country where most leading politicans are also titled hereditary landlords, he called for a French Revolution-style redistribution of land between the classes in response to unprecedented destruction
Nadeem Ahmad, the former general who heads Pakistan's civilian relief effort, is said to be "deeply unhappy" over political interference by prominent figures in the PPP to ensure their supporters are at the front of the queue for aid.

Officials at Gen Nadeem's National Disaster Management Authority said their efforts had been undermined by politicians diverting helicopters and demanding food or medicine for their constituencies at the expense of others.

Mr Hussain is widely viewed as a political opportunist.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Prem »

Global Lessons from the Pakistan Flood Catastrophe
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-m ... 91928.html
Second, we urgently need to step up efforts to protect ourselves from this new normal. We need to do all we can to stop weather disasters becoming catastrophes. This means, in the jargon of disaster management, increasing the resilience of our infrastructure, economies and communities. In Pakistan greater resilience would include better emergency warning and evacuation systems, better flood protection for key infrastructure (cities, and schools and other community buildings that can serve as flood shelters), and plans to help communities recover once the waters recede. Third, the way we have (mis)managed the Indus -- and countless other rivers around the world -- for the past century has provided various short-term benefits, but at a major long-term cost that we are now having to pay.
My question is do we see the same flood next year to see jihadi Poakroaches going on begging spree on kuffar world.
How many time Sindhu Maa gonna repeatedly slap Poaks before she washes away their sins for good and establish peace in the land?
Yeh Poakland barbaad ho bhi jaye to kya hai.
Bahado bahado, Poakland ko Bahado
Arabo Ki Aulad , Inko Saudia Pahunchado.
Last edited by Prem on 24 Aug 2010 10:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

Adding to what has been posted above, by 'wig',
Describing the Army as the lesser of the two evils facing the country — the other being corrupt feudal lords who doubled up as politicians — Mr. Hussain turned his ire at those members of the landed aristocracy who had diverted floodwaters to save their own land at the cost of many towns and villages.
“If these generals can topple political and democratic governments, they can also take steps to weed out corrupt politicians and feudal lords,'' he said {But, during half the time in the life of Pakistan, the PA has been in power and did not take any measures to weed out corrupt politicians and feudal lords. OTOH, they struck deals with them for their own benefits. Again, from Day One, Allah Taala has been singularly cruel to the Land of the Purest by infesting it only with politicians who shoot their own two feet}
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by shiv »

tarun wrote:
The Paki army/ISI have supported that - possibly with advisors and a slush fund. In addition the paki army's extracurricular activities have included import of exactly the same paper as is used by the makers of Indian currency (It is stuipid of India to have to import the paper - we need to make it in India) and the creation of crores of INR of fake Indian currency. These of course are presses that probably do not cost too much to run - but do need some power and infrastructure.
OT - The need is to move away from cash economy. What prevents India from printing some napaki currency in an equal-equal measure
If you had the choice of benefiting from printing real Dollars or printing fake Monopoly money - you would understand that "benefit" would demand that dollar printing is preferable. Printing INR brings benefits to Pakistan. Printing Paki money is the same as printing trash. Rich Pakis use dollars, Euros, INR or Dinars. Poor Pakis do not get paid or get paid with pure trash - the Pakistani rupee.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Satya_anveshi »

In the first couple weeks or so Pakistan received scant aid and as a result of that we all saw the real begging nature of NaPaks. But soon after ISI elevated Terror threat higher than India -basically for the first time ISI did something right, and lo and behold, international aid came pouring to NaPaks.

is there a causal relation between ISI threating to move away from India and "international aid" started pouring in? Has this line been explored?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by SSridhar »

Again, from that Altaf Hussain statement, posted by wig,
Most political parties were quick to criticise Mr. Hussain's statement with Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) leader Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan stating that the Supreme Court ought to take suo motu notice of this observation. Sherry Rehman, former federal Information Minister from the PPP — with which the MQM is allied not only at the federal level but also in Sindh — described the statement as inappropriate in a country where democracy has been derailed so often.
The PPP & PML(N) cannot criticize Altaf bhai if only they look back at their own performance. Let me recall it for their benefit.

In 1988-89, PML requested Army help to oust Benazir Bhutto's government and later some PPP leaders similarly requested the Army to oust Nawaz Sherif's government. Even earlier, in c. 1977, leaders of the opposition PNA asked the Army to take over after Bhutto had virtually conceded to all their demands. In c. 2008, the PPP announced openly that it would seek the help of the Army Chief in removing President Musharraf if he refused to quit. Later, in c. 2009, when President Zardari refused to re-instate the dismissed Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, and a long march was threatened by lawyers and the PML-N party, the COAS intervened to retrieve the situation and reinstate the Chief Justice after the Sharif brothers had had extensive discussions with the Army Chief. There was speculation that political parties asked the COAS to remove the President. Later, as politics heated up in Pakistan, President Zardari and his supporters alleged that the Army was behind a concerted move to remove him from power by floating bizarre theories like ‘Minus One Formula’ which meant removal of Zardari from Presidency and yet keep PPP in power.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by Anujan »

Pakistan to issue 3 month "relief aid worker" visa to people who visit to help them out -- except for citizens of Israel and India.

Millions of Israeli tourists waiting with bated breath to go to Pakistan must be sorely disappointed
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 09, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Can Flood Aid Weaken the Taliban in Pakistan?


http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... -extremism

Cyril Almeida
Will American aid curb the spread of extremism in trouble spots here? Unlikely. Talk of "give-them-aid-or-they’ll-become-militants" fundamentally misses the point, the point about why extremism exists and continues to grow in parts of Pakistan.
I asked a reporter from Kurram Agency what he made of suggestions that aid could help curb extremism in FATA (the Federally Administered Tribal Areas). Personally affected by the insurgency there — he had to leave his hometown three years ago — the reporter was skeptical: “It’s a joke. People don’t realise that the literacy rate in FATA has actually gone up in recent years — has that impacted on the existence of militancy? This is just a way for people to line their pockets, the people with N.G.O. ‘businesses’ to attract funds.
Bellicose ‘nationalists’ are on television and in the vernacular press every day, spouting crazy conspiracy theories about American technology causing the crash of a civilian airliner in Islamabad, the floods somehow being linked to India releasing water from its dams (curiously, until the floods, India was accused of impeding water flows to Pakistan), etc.
Daniyal Mueenuddin
Furthermore, in Punjab and Sindh, we have a thousand-year history of adherence to a Sufi version of Islam, which is very different from the militant Wahhabi doctrine that inspires the Taliban and their confederates. The Barelvi school, as it is known, preaches tolerance and peace :eek: .

While they discuss politics endlessly, the people in the southern portion of Pakistan are not ideological in their political views :shock: . Each successive regime has promised much and given little, so that they are now indifferent to parties and their platforms; they are interested only in the question of which individual or group can give them roads or schools or jobs or electric connections. Whoever provides a concrete benefit earns their allegiance. Yes, they have a superficially negative view of America and the West :rotfl: ; but this view can be changed quickly. Their judgments are not hardened. :rotfl:

Mohammed Hanif
An overwhelming majority of the victims come from areas that are of no strategic interest to anyone because they have neither exported terrorism :rotfl: nor do they wish to join a fight against it. They are small farmers, peasants, farm hands who, according to Pakistani columnist Cyril Almeida, have never seen the inside of a government school or a hospital.

The word terrorism doesn’t even exist in Seraiki and Sindhi :rotfl: , the languages of the majority of the people who have been rendered homeless. Most of them probably have no idea that a country as distant as the U.S. is interested in their hearts and minds. They are too busy trying to chase a charity truck for food or cradling their malnourished child to a slow death.
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