Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010

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Rangudu
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Rangudu »

CRamS wrote:Boss, are you then saying Woodward's "revelations" are poppycock? Or his CIA handers and sources rubbed wool on his eyes by giving him a few juicy tit-bits so he gets off their back and writes something and feels he accomplished something? This is the standard interplay between US govt and its mouthpieces in the media.
Woodward writes what his sources tell him. I'm sure that Bush/Obama's advisers figured out a way to claim that 26/11 had no "official" TSP sponsorship. Remember Bill Clinton's famous line - "that depends on what your definition of 'is' is"?

In other words, if you set the standard for official involvement as "we need proof that Kayani ordered it, with timestamp" etc. then nothing will be official TSP responsibility, doesn't it?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Anujan »

CRamS
We are getting caught up in questions that a typical tax attorney will ask

"During the planning phase Mr Terrorist was in the payroll of the ISI, whereas during the time period he issued the actual command to his subordinates to initiate the mission he was on medical leave & loss of pay. Notwithstanding medical insurance reimbursements by ISI during the 1 week time period in which the project was given a go-ahead, according to interpretation precedent set by Mr Feudal vs Government of Pakistan judged by the Kangaroo Court of Pakistan by Chief justice Moron-bin-Jihadi-Big-Pocketi, the loss of pay is pro-forma documentary evidence to the effect of non-employment"

WTF?!

It was planned by ISI, funded by ISI, people were trained by ISI, reconnaissance done by ISI. But nobody in ISI said "Go ahead". The question I ask is, if any intelligence agency gets wind of the fact that some of its operatives are acting outside its control, what would be their next step? (Hint: In the armed forces, it is called court martial. Usually followed by execution for matters of such gravity).

Instead what do we get? A denial by Zardari that Kasab is not Pakistani. The Judicial circus/tamasha meticulously documented by SSridhar-ji. We are denied voice samples. Dossier after dossier being asked.

Let us make no mistake. The operation was planned, funded, trained and executed by ISI. They are disowning it because of one or both of the reasons
(a) They go caught with their hand in the cookie jar, as usual because they displayed tactical brilliance
(b) Their strategic objectives we not met and they looked like an idiot
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by hnair »

Rangudu wrote: Actually, I think Kayani and co deliberately chose that target to send a message. 26/11 was as official as they come.
400% halaal opinion. This thing was budgeted, approved and executed by Pak establishment. GWB was either not clear or was lying to Dr MMS.

- a wallpapering over heavy logistics commitment by Pak's army/navy/sigint by claiming "The FBI was horrified by the low-cost, high-tech operation that had paralysed Mumbai.". There is nothing low cost about the whole deal.

- "American cities were just as vulnerable." This is nearer to truth. Something that was vehemently disputed by a certain non-Indian forum poster at that time. But appearances have to be kept and is still being kept. So pakis still threaten every civilized city of the world, especially western ones.

- "A senior FBI official responsible for thwarting similar attacks in the United States said, Mumbai changed everything,".
Mumbai changed nothing. Pretty boys in SWAT gear gives a semblance of normalcy, while the original evil still thrives.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

Rangudu wrote: Woodward writes what his sources tell him.
Another way of looking at it:
Having played a supporting role as a character in one of Woodward's books I have some sympathy for these characters. Woodward has achieved so much leverage in Washington that his characters fear to refuse to talk to him. If they do so, they will find themselves described anyway without the benefit of their point of view.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... dward.html
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

What the Simla agreement states is
(ii) In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the ceasefire of December 17, 1971, shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognised position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line.
and
Both governments agree that their respective heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that in the meanwhile the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of durable peace and normalisation of relations, including the questions of repatriation of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of diplomatic relations.
Oops, also in the Simla Agreement
Both governments will take all steps within their power to prevent hostile propaganda directed against each other. Both countries will encourage the dissemination of such information as would promote the development of friendly relations between them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Gus »

CRamS wrote:They are too smart to invite the wrath of US & Israel.
let's not be too chankian. What exact wrath did US & Israel inflict on those who ordered the murders?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by CRamS »

Gus wrote:
CRamS wrote:They are too smart to invite the wrath of US & Israel.
let's not be too chankian. What exact wrath did US & Israel inflict on those who ordered the murders?
I agree, lots of stuff doesn't add up. Unless, Kiyani & Co Guboed massively, I cannot fathom how TSP got away with the attack on the Jewish center whether or not ISI "ordered" the attack; even assuming what TSP is saying is true, namely a "rouge" operation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Anujan »

Adding to what I was saying. Wiki leaks, the unclassified cables and other documents report that the Pakis told Unkil
Dont Push us on Cashmere
Unkil probably agreed to this. All this "good taliban", "bad taliban" nonsense were probably trial balloons floated to see if Unkil kept his part of the bargain. In their moment of tactical brilliance (Since terrorism directed at Cashmere was outside the ambit of Unkil) the Jihadi-army sent a few to Mumbai.
Unkil probably asked them "WTF is happening ?"
Pakis probably told them "This is related to Cashmere"
Unkil's babus probably told Unkil "You idiot, just like we were the next after Kandahar hijacking, we will be the next after Mumbai. In any case, if Indians attack Pakis will stop whatever little they are doing now"
Unkil probably went to Pakis and said "By Cashmere exemption, I meant attacks *inside* Cashmere, not random attacks with Cashmere as a reason"
Followed by everybody agreeing that a "Few misguided youths" who were "led astray by Mullahs" and "who might have been radicalized because of Gujrat, Daleets, Kargil, Bangladesh in 1971, all of Shivaji's victories, Indian hegemony in Bollywood movies, Not selecting Paki players in IPL, Shoaib's Nikhanmama" did it and ISI had no role.

Postscript: Unkil rolled up everyone with requisite training and ability to launch attacks on western soil (Think Headly + Mumbai == Omar Sheikh Saeed + 9/11)

Therefore, ISI was not involved in "Official Capacity"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Brad Goodman »

kala vasiyat fires at pakis once more

US’s decade-long Pakistan strategy has failed, says Robert Blackwill
For that reason, this is a very good time for the US to reconsider its strategy towards Pakistan, he said, during a talk titled ‘Does India have a grand strategy?’ in south Mumbai. India should evolve a sophisticated alternative for the U.S. instead of merely offering it “bumper-sticker advice” that it should just “give Pakistan an ultimatum
it(read India) did not have a grand strategy to “diminish the terrorist threat emanating from Pakistan," he said.
kalavasiyat is saying things our own netas should be saying supan allah
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by RajeshA »

CRamS wrote:I agree, lots of stuff doesn't add up. Unless, Kiyani & Co Guboed massively, I cannot fathom how TSP got away with the attack on the Jewish center whether or not ISI "ordered" the attack; even assuming what TSP is saying is true, namely a "rouge" operation.
Did any Chinese die in the operation?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Sanjay M »

Pakistan lodges protest over Nato raid
Pakistan has lodged a protest with Nato after forces killed more than 30 insurgents in a rare, cross-border air raid.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by RajeshA »

Brad Goodman wrote:kala vasiyat fires at pakis once more

US’s decade-long Pakistan strategy has failed, says Robert Blackwill
For that reason, this is a very good time for the US to reconsider its strategy towards Pakistan, he said, during a talk titled ‘Does India have a grand strategy?’ in south Mumbai. India should evolve a sophisticated alternative for the U.S. instead of merely offering it “bumper-sticker advice” that it should just “give Pakistan an ultimatum
it(read India) did not have a grand strategy to “diminish the terrorist threat emanating from Pakistan," he said.
kalavasiyat is saying things our own netas should be saying supan allah
This means the Americans are working on convincing the Indians what our grand vision can be, but our Indian Leaders are not convinced about the draft. Everything the Americans offer, means that Indian Leaders would need to get their hands dirty in the messy business of showing leadership, something they are not particularly keen on.

The hobbits don't want anybody, including Gandalf, to disturb the serenity and peace of Hobbiton.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

CRamS wrote: I agree, lots of stuff doesn't add up. Unless, Kiyani & Co Guboed massively, I cannot fathom how TSP got away with the attack on the Jewish center whether or not ISI "ordered" the attack; even assuming what TSP is saying is true, namely a "rouge" operation.
Paki actions have killed many Americans in Afghanistan. A few months ago, some senior CIA officers were killed by a double agent. What were the consequences? Some more drone strikes. bus itna hi?

Moreover, these attacks were on India (the "near enemy"). They were not seen as an attack on the "far enemy". No loss of honor and dignity.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by shiv »

Brad Goodman wrote:kala vasiyat fires at pakis once more

US’s decade-long Pakistan strategy has failed, says Robert Blackwill
Guess how much the US has paid the Pakistan army in this last decade? Guess what the US has suplied the Pakistan army with in the last decade?

Just see what the Pakiatan army looked like in 1999 and how it looks now. Guess who they look like. they are better fed, better clothed, better armed.

Paki army soldiers in 1999
Image


Pakistan army now
Image

Image

See this image:
http://www.ispr.gov.pk/archive_images/2196.jpg
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

RajeshA wrote:This means the Americans are working on convincing the Indians what our grand vision can be, but our Indian Leaders are not convinced about the draft. Everything the Americans offer, means that Indian Leaders would need to get their hands dirty in the messy business of showing leadership, something they are not particularly keen on.

The hobbits don't want anybody, including Gandalf, to disturb the serenity and peace of Hobbiton.
Hobbiton? You mean, the Shire, eh?

Anyways, the Amrikis also need to introspect why their exhortations and advice is met with studied scepticism and mistrust in Yindia. With good reason, let me add. For all I know, the US establishment - the sum total of various lobbies and sections and special interests among others - will also advice cap-rollback-eliminate, give-away-cashmere, 'open-up-xyz-sectors to US investment-while-ignoring their nontariff barriers and tech sanctions' and other such gems too, am sure.

The Yindooze aren't that bone-headed, IMVVHO, of course.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Holbrooke angle: global warming

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/rogue ... a/689256/4
Months before the floods in Pakistan, US special envoy for Af-Pak Richard Holbrooke had said the presence of Indian and Pakistani troops in Siachen was resulting in fast melting of ice that would soon flood the rivers in their countries, claims the book. Holbrooke made the remarks at a meeting chaired by Obama.

“In one discussion about the tension between Pakistan and India, Holbrooke introduced a new angle. ‘Theirs is a global warming dimension of this struggle, Mr President’,” he said. “His words baffled many in the room,” writes Woodward. “There are tens of thousands of Indian and Pakistani troops encamped on the glaciers in the Himalayas that feed the rivers into Pakistan and India,” he said. “Their encampments are melting the glaciers... There’s a chance that river valley in Pakistan and perhaps even India could be flooded,” Holbrooke had said. “After the meeting, there were several versions of one question: Was Holbrooke kidding?” the book says. “He was not.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

^ What is Holbrooke smoking these days?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^ Also, is sri holebrook smoking from the right hole at all? So overall, it appears that the high-pitch packee drama on 'water is the core-est issue now' might possible have been scripted in DC only. Why am I not surprised....
Last edited by Hari Seldon on 28 Sep 2010 07:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Pranay »

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/world ... ml?_r=1&hp
The C.I.A. has drastically increased its bombing campaign in the mountains of Pakistan in recent weeks, American officials said. The strikes are part of an effort by military and intelligence operatives to try to cripple the Taliban in a stronghold being used to plan attacks against American troops in Afghanistan.

As part of its covert war in the region, the C.I.A. has launched 20 attacks with armed drone aircraft thus far in September, the most ever during a single month, and more than twice the number in a typical month. This expanded air campaign comes as top officials are racing to stem the rise of American casualties before the Obama administration’s comprehensive review of its Afghanistan strategy set for December.
In a meeting with reporters on Monday, General Petraeus indicated that it was new intelligence gathering technology that helped NATO forces locate the militants killed by the helicopter raids against militants in Pakistan.

In particular, he said, the military has expanded its fleet of reconnaissance blimps that can hover over hide-outs thought to belong to the Taliban in eastern and southern Afghanistan.

The intelligence technology, General Petraeus said, has also enabled the expanded campaign of raids by Special Operations commandos against Taliban operatives in those areas.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Singha »

20 killed in pak border by NATO helicopters.

Pakistan say NATO airstrikes breach its air space

By DEB RIECHMANN (AP) – 5 hours ago

KABUL, Afghanistan — Pakistan vehemently protested NATO helicopter strikes that killed more than 70 militants, saying Monday that U.N. rules do not allow the choppers to cross into its air space even in hot pursuit of insurgents.

NATO said it launched the strikes in self-defense after militants attacked a small security post in Afghanistan near the border.

Although unmanned CIA drones frequently attack insurgents hiding on the Pakistani side where coalition forces are banned from fighting, strikes by manned NATO helicopters are uncommon there.

Pakistan's protest, which plays to anti-American sentiment in that country, contrasts with its muted criticism of a sharp rise in suspected drone attacks in North Waziristan — a rugged, mountainous tribal area of Pakistan largely controlled by militants who stage attacks on coalition troops across the border.

The dispute over the strikes only fuels unease between the two countries. The Pakistani military has fought Pakistani Taliban fighters, but it has resisted pressure to move against the al-Qaida-linked Haqqani network. The Haqqanis, who control vast stretches of territory in North Waziristan and the bordering Afghan province of Khost, carry out attacks in Afghanistan — but not in Pakistan.

In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said the U.S. followed the appropriate protocol in the situation.

"Our forces have the right of self-defense," Lapan said. "They were being attacked, and they responded."

U.S. officials say there is an agreement to notify Pakistani officials of cross-border incidents to allow the coalition to defend itself. In this instance, coalition forces could not reach the Pakistani military before they needed to defend Afghan National Security Forces under attack, a NATO official said on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to disclose the information publicly.

Pakistan denied that such an understanding exists with the military coalition, or International Security Assistance Force.

"These incidents are a clear violation and breach of the U.N. mandate under which ISAF operates," Pakistan's foreign ministry said in a statement. "The said mandate terminates/finishes at the Afghanistan border. There are no agreed `hot pursuit' rules. Any impression to the contrary is not factually correct. Such violations are unacceptable."

NATO confirmed that it launched two airstrikes on Saturday and a third attack on Monday — all in tribal regions of Pakistan located opposite an increasingly dangerous area in eastern Afghanistan. Initially, the coalition said NATO helicopters chased insurgents into Pakistani airspace. But late Monday, the NATO official said that while Pakistani air space was breached during the first strike, initial indications were that choppers involved in the second and third strikes fired from Afghan air space and hit targets on the Pakistan side of the border.

The first strike occurred after insurgents, firing from Pakistan, attacked an Afghan security force at outpost Narizah in Khost province. Abdul Hakim Ishaqzie, the provincial police chief in Khost, said police at checkpoints at the border came under attack, engaged the militants in a gun battle and then called for air support.

The top commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, described the clash in Khost as an example of NATO forces being out in front of the enemy.

Speaking to reporters after a tour of the main U.S. detention center in Afghanistan near Bagram Air Field, Petraeus said the air strike killed nearly 60 members of the Haqqani faction, which frequently attacks coalition troops.

"They were trying to infiltrate from Pakistan into Afghanistan in Khost, and attacked two Afghan border police posts, and ISAF forces responded and caught those out in the open there," Petraeus said, adding that NATO recently increased its force in Khost.

The second strike, which killed four insurgents, occurred when helicopters returned to the border area and were attacked by insurgents — again firing from across the border in Pakistan. "The helicopters returned to the scene and they received direct small arms fire and, once again operating in self-defense, they engaged the insurgents," U.S. Capt. Ryan Donald, a coalition spokesman said.

The NATO official confirmed that the coalition carried out a third strike, killing 10 insurgents who were firing at coalition forces. Pakistani intelligence officials. speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media, said two NATO helicopters fired down on the village of Mata Sanger in the Kurram tribal area — across the border from the Afghan provinces of Paktia and Nangarhar.

Meanwhile, in southern Afghanistan, NATO pressed ahead Monday with a combat operation to drive Taliban fighters from areas around the southern city of Kandahar in the insurgent heartland. The push in Kandahar province, the birthplace of the Taliban insurgency, is a key part of the U.S. war strategy to rout insurgents from populated areas and rush in development aid and better governance.

"We have begun the operations into Zhari and Panjwai (districts), which turns out to have been a safe haven for the Taliban for some five years and only in recent months, when we increased the density of our forces, has there been a recognition of how significant that safe haven has been," Petraeus said.

The commander noted that the number of Afghan security forces, civil order police and commandoes outnumber U.S., Canadian and other forces operating in the two districts.

Coalition forces are moving into two or three areas around Kandahar at once to pressure the Taliban "so they don't get the chance to run away," said Shah Mohammad Ahmadi, chief of Arghandab district northwest of the city. "Before, when we have tried to get rid of the Taliban, when we cleaned one area we found more Taliban in a different one."

Associated Press Writers Sebastian Abbot in Islamabad, Rasool Dawar in Mir Ali, Pakistan, Heidi Vogt and Eric Talmadge in Kabul, Mirwais Khan in Kandahar and Anne Flaherty in Washington contributed to this report.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Article posted above, but some interesting stuff here

For better or worse, White House bets on Pakistan's civilian government

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... government
Riedel's Pakistan focus was not due to his confidence that the civilian government could control the military and intelligence services. In fact, he referred to Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani as a "liar" with regards to the activities of the secretive Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI), which is widely suspected of aiding the Taliban insurgency. Then Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair reportedly echoed Riedel's views on this matter.

Inside the administration, Blair argued that Obama was approaching Pakistan with too many carrots and not enough sticks. He at one point advocated bombing inside Pakistan and conducting raids there without the Pakistani government's approval. "I think Pakistan would be completely, completely pissed off and they would probably take actions against us ... but they would probably adjust, :rotfl: " he once told Obama.

Obama, however, opted to pursue a less confrontational path.

...


"I know that I am speaking to you on a personal level when I say that my commitment to ending the ability of these groups to strike at our families is as much about my family's security as it is about yours," Obama wrote in a letter to Zardari delivered by National Security Advisor Jim Jones and counterterrorism advisor John Brennan.

Zardari's response to that letter reinforced what many in the administration already suspected: Pakistan's government was in the grips of an internal struggle over whether to embrace the United States. Zardari's initial response focused heavily on India, though the Pakistani president only referred obliquely to his country's strategic rival. Woodward reports that the White House believed the letter was written by the Pakistani military and the ISI. However, the Zardari government did end up accepting Obama's offer.

Obama's top advisors told the U.S. president that he would have to accept something short of complete success in convincing Pakistan to turn away from its longstanding obsession with the military threat it perceives from India.

When Obama had a meeting with Zardari in May 2009, he told the Pakistani president the he did not want U.S. taxpayers to be funding Pakistan's military buildup against India "We are trying to change our world view," Zardari told Obama, "but it's not going to happen overnight."

At times, Obama was downright puzzled by his advisors' advice regarding Pakistan. For example, intelligence reports confirmed that Pakistani officials were afraid that the United States would leave Afghanistan too early, as they believed had occurred after the end of the resistance to the Soviet regime in the 1980s. On the other hand, Pakistan worried that if the United States was too involved in Afghanistan, it might aid in the establishment of a larger Afghan army than Islamabad was comfortable with.

"What am I to believe?" Obama asked his senior staff. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Special Representative Richard Holbrooke, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates all told him these were the types of contradictions that were commonplace when dealing with Pakistan.

...

Pakistan's Ambassador to Washington Husain Haqqani, a key go-between, tried several times to explain to the Obama administration how to court Pakistani leaders, comparing the dynamic to "a man who is trying to woo a woman." :shock:

"We all know what he wants from her. Right? :rotfl: " Haqqani said in a meeting with Jones, Deputy National Security Advisor Tom Donilon and the NSC's Gen. Doug Lute.

"But she has other ideas. She wants to be taken to the theater. She wants that nice new bottle of perfume," Haqqani told them. "If you get down on one knee and give the ring, that's the big prize. And boy, you know, it works."

Haqqani said the "ring" was official U.S. recognition of Pakistan's nuclear program as legitimate. He also warned that the Pakistanis would always ask for the moon as a starting point in negotiations. He compared it to the salesmanship of rug merchants.

"The guy starts at 10,000 and you settle for 1,200," Haqqani told the Obama team. "So be reasonable, but never let the guy walk out of the shop without a sale."

...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Anujan »

^^^
abhishek_sharma wrote:"We all know what he wants from her. Right? :rotfl: "
GUBO?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

^ Yes. Even Paakis know their real aukaat.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by archan »

abhishek_sharma wrote:^ Yes. Even Paakis know their real aukaat.
But then the Americans know the value of a 'hoe. They don't get down on a knee with a ring, they just throw some money at her and ask her to comply. And she does...
Now getting helicopter raids after countless drones...she complies..
Once in a while she may show some nakhra or the other - I won't do this, I don't do that... but they stuff her mouth with more money and...boy, she complies..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Anujan »

^^^
Sovirginity is still intact!! NATO Reverses position!!
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... self-jd-04
International Security Assistance Force (Isaf), which had earlier defended the aerial engagement as an action ‘under the right of self-defence’, later in the evening, according to military sources, informed Pakistani commanders that they were trying to establish that their helicopters during the operation did not cross into Pakistani territory. :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Dipanker »

^^
This is amazing, now NATO is learning the "PakiSpeak", oh the distance they go for preserving the H&D and soverginity of the Pakis.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Karan Dixit »

We cannot afford to apply same standard to every faction in Pakistan. There is a big difference between Zardari and Kyani. I will leave it at that.

On a separate note:


US doesn't want to arm Pak against India: Obama to Zardari


http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/i ... 05143.aspx
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Dilbu »

vic wrote:
NATO helicopters strike inside Pakistan

KARACHI: Two Apache helicopters crossed into Pakistan on Friday in pursuit of insurgents who had attacked a remote Afghan security outpost, the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said on Sunday.

More than 30 insurgents were killed, the coalition said in a statement. The aircraft followed ISAF rules of engagement when they crossed the border, it said. Two helicopters also went to the border area on Saturday and were engaged by small arms fire. They returned fire, killing between four and six insurgents, ISAF said. –DawnNews
The US post was around 8 miles inside Afghanistan while Pak post was around 6miles inside Pak from border. It means that the attaching Taliban withdrew around 25km+ (as the eagle flies). Which means that they walked around 50km+ on rough terrain and this withdrawl should take around 1-2 days. Therefore the likely scenario is that US attacked the base from which the taliban was lauched and co-ordindated. It is possible that US let the attacking Taliban withdraw to this base, then bombed it. Or it is a mixture of all of these. What is not likely that this Pak post was firing upon the Afghan post which was 25-50km away. This attack was retaliation against a Pak base.
I was going through AfPak Wiki Leaks document.
TF Eagle Reports FOB Tillman receiving IDF,"On the afternoon of 16 March, FOB Tillman received four rockets, with the closest landing 100m from the FOBs HLZ. Attack Soldiers visually acquired the point of origin, which was approximately 5 km southeast of the FOB. Both Attack personnel at FOB Tillmans OP1 and CAS observed two ACM at the point of origin. Attack responded with MK-19 and .50 cal fire onto the enemy, causing them to flee to the southeast toward the Pakistan border. CAS observed a total of five individuals egressing and conducted two 20mm gun runs on the enemy, who continued to egress into Pakistan. Attack 5 attempted to alert the PAKMIL via FM but was initially unsuccessful. Additionally, TF Eagle TOC attempted to contact the PAKMIL via HF but received no response. Although CAS maintained continuous PID on the enemy from the point of origin until after they entered Pakistan, TF Eagle did not fire into Pakistan due to high risk of collateral damage. Approximately 15 minutes after the enemy entered Pakistan, Attack 5 successfully contacted the PAKMIL and requested that they move to intercept the five ACM. Attack Company is continuing to observe for a response from the PAKMIL.
Incidents like these are regularly reported in that document. So unkil has now decided to do something about it. Good for them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Philip »

That the "Vulture" Gen.Kill-Any is a "liar' is no state secret.He headed the ISI during Gen.Bandicoot the Musha-rat's time.The "Vulture" is the "maestro burattinaio",(master-puppeteer) of the paki state terror regime.he pulls all the strings.His term has been as predicted extended and one must watch carefully the sudden political ambitions of the bandicoot ,which might indicate the setting up of a plitical party fully supported by the military and bureaucratic establishment ,where they will share power and outflank the political "democratic" hoi-polloi,like the PPP,Sharif,etc.Once such a party obtains power,the military/ISI will ensure that it is kept in power as a fig-leaf for army rule over the land as military coups are becoming quite passe in today's global scenario.It will be far more difficult for the US to support another military dictator in Pak so soon after the disgrace of Mushy-the-rat.A new party where former military men can conveniently change their uniforms for Paki politico-pyjamas,will ensure the continutaion of the military jackboot with far less controversy.Mushy might be the first in a long line of future Paki dictators ,former military men,masquerading as democrats in new "camouflage".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Lalmohan »

i think that the attack on chabad was meant to be an insurance policy, if yindoos didn't attack, then atleast the yahood would be incensed enough to force the yindoos and/or do it themselves
the key imperative was that someone/anyone should attack pakistan, and then the TFTA TSPA could happily drop all its operations on the Afghan frontier and the war against Al-Q would have been put on ice. Ofcourse, TSPA had been hoping that Unkil would actually prevent a hot war, but they didn't expect unkil to nip it in the bud quite so early on in proceedings so that they were forced to stay on the Afghan border

if we believe that Al-Q has moved to Yemen and expanding its Somali maritime operations (aka piracy) then there is not much more point for Unkil to remain in Afghanistan, other than to tame those elements in pakistan who are working for the khilafat agenda. Given a choice, the afghans would happily go back to their tribal clashes, albeit at the expense of the last remnants of civilisation in that country

things have become more complicated with the dragon being physically present in Gilgit now
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by James B »

Gen. Petraeus to TSP - get ready for deep penetration and loss of the sovirginity

US general warns Pak of entering its land to stop terror
A top US military commander has warned the Pakistan army that America could launch ground operations in the tribal areas, if Islamabad refused to dismantle the militant network in North Waziristan. The New York Times (NYT) reports the warning by General David H Petraeus, the Commander of US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, indicates US officials' belief that the Pakistanis are unlikely to launch a military operations in North Waziristan, which is considered to be a haven for al-Qaeda and Taliban operatives.

"Petraeus wants to turn up the heat on the safe havens," a senior official was quoted as saying, and this was the reason that US forces had sharply stepped up drone strikes in the area.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Nihat »

Solving the Pakistan Problem
We need to stop believing that dialogue with Pakistan will somehow convince the military-jihadi complex to change. We need to start engaging the powers that scaffold Pakistan and compel them to influence the behaviour of their charge.

We need to stop believing that it is only about raising Pakistan's costs. We need to start working on making it prohibitively expensive for the United States, China and Saudi Arabia to indulge the Pakistani military-jihadi complex. If these countries want to continue to stand in the way of Pakistan's transformation, then that is their choice. But they should not be allowed to believe that they can do so painlessly.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by archan »

James B wrote:Gen. Petraeus to TSP - get ready for deep penetration and loss of the sovirginity

US general warns Pak of entering its land to stop terror
A top US military commander has warned the Pakistan army that America could launch ground operations in the tribal areas, if Islamabad refused to dismantle the militant network in North Waziristan. The New York Times (NYT) reports the warning by General David H Petraeus, the Commander of US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, indicates US officials' belief that the Pakistanis are unlikely to launch a military operations in North Waziristan, which is considered to be a haven for al-Qaeda and Taliban operatives.

"Petraeus wants to turn up the heat on the safe havens," a senior official was quoted as saying, and this was the reason that US forces had sharply stepped up drone strikes in the area.
Nice, so I guess it won't a problem if India states that she can launch military operations in pak occupied Kashmir to dismantle the now-obvious terror apparatus?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Fidel Guevara »

(self-deleted)
Last edited by Fidel Guevara on 28 Sep 2010 18:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Fidel Guevara »

Altair wrote: Nice, so I guess it won't a problem if India states that she can launch military operations in pak occupied Kashmir to dismantle the now-obvious terror apparatus?

atrocious comment start

atrocious coment end

PS:Mods can delete if found out of taste.No Apologies!!

When it comes to Pakistan, out-of-taste is the only type of comment that can be made.

I would characterize Pakistan as I would Lindsay Lohan - drugged up, not realizing where to draw the line, always in trouble, and generally headed in a downward spiral, but always making headlines with each new incident. And always begging for help and mercy (from the sentencing judge or from the WB/IMF)!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by RajeshA »

Perhaps already posted
Published on Sep 27, 2010
Pakistan minister resigns over remarks against military: AFP

Defence Production Minister Abdul Qayum Jatoi was caught by the police during one of his visits to a brothel Cat Club.

@2:13 min one sees the Honorable Minister coming out.

A few seconds earlier at 2:00 min a bunch of 6 Chinese girls amongst others come out. The reporter spoke of 13 other Chinese girls who were deported a week earlier.

One wonders what the hell all these Chinese girls are doing with so much shittt in Pakistan. Since only the Pakistani Elite can afford to go to these brothels, it would seem to be a very convenient method to keep a tab on the Pakistani Elite.

All in the service of the fatherland! :shock:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by shiv »

RajeshA wrote:Perhaps already posted
Published on Sep 27, 2010
Pakistan minister resigns over remarks against military: AFP
Rajesh - you can be dead sure that this man is being framed and shamed for speking out against the army. he has been arrested and his image with suit-boot and tied hands added to a cooked up (or real) clip of brothel girls being arrested. In Pakistan, if you speak up against the military - this is the the sort thing that happens to you. I feel sorry for the man.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by Suppiah »

archan wrote:
James B wrote:Gen. Petraeus to TSP - get ready for deep penetration and loss of the sovirginity

Nice, so I guess it won't a problem if India states that she can launch military operations in pak occupied Kashmir to dismantle the now-obvious terror apparatus?
Why waste bullets and bombs...not to speak of valuable life..let the Americans launch attacks, the animals will not only die in fire like firefiles but also kill themselves and each other in fury in the name of the lord...may the lord ensure that LET piglets and their TSPA handlers do not take Ombaba's warning seriously and do something that infuriates Ombaba. When a liberal wimp is out to prove he has b..s, that too with election looming, it may turn out to be much worse than anything Rumsfeld or Bush can cook up...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by shiv »

A squeeze is certainly being put on the Pakistani military.

Last week someone from the US said India would retaliate of a 26/11 was repeated.

This week another guy says if 9/11 gets repeated Pakistan gets attacked.

Interesting times...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 20

Post by nachiket »

Suppiah wrote:
Why waste bullets and bombs...not to speak of valuable life..let the Americans launch attacks, the animals will not only die in fire like firefiles but also kill themselves and each other in fury in the name of the lord...may the lord ensure that LET piglets and their TSPA handlers do not take Ombaba's warning seriously and do something that infuriates Ombaba. When a liberal wimp is out to prove he has b..s, that too with election looming, it may turn out to be much worse than anything Rumsfeld or Bush can cook up...
Americans will only kill the terrorists in NWFP - Afghanistan border areas. Those are the only ones they are interested in. They won't touch the ones in POK since they are only our problem as far as the americans are concerned.
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