Understanding the United States of America (USA) - III

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Nov 2016 08:08

Dinesh S wrote:
The reason why indian Americans have lower divorce rates is because they are newer migrants to USA and hence haven't given to the hedonism/liberalism of the American culture(lol) as much as the European/blacks . This perhaps is also the reason why I think they are doing well there.

That's what I meant; that it is heading that way. I think the African American community's issues cannot be compared; there is a history there that is painful and has caused all sorts of pathologies they need to overcome. The Indians will head the way of other rich: Japanese, Europeans, or Parsees in India. High divorce rates, low marriage rates, and low child-birth rates. Since they are educated, and the women are also educated and empowered, doubt that out-of-wedlock births, teenage pregnancies etc will happen to the class of Indians who are in the US.

Dinesh S · Post by **Dinesh S** » 08 Nov 2016 08:13

MurthyB wrote:
Dinesh S wrote:
The reason why indian Americans have lower divorce rates is because they are newer migrants to USA and hence haven't given to the hedonism/liberalism of the American culture(lol) as much as the European/blacks . This perhaps is also the reason why I think they are doing well there.
That's what I meant; that it is heading that way. I think the African American community's issues cannot be compared; there is a history there that is painful and has caused all sorts of pathologies they need to overcome. The Indians will head the way of other rich: Japanese, Europeans, or Parsees in India. High divorce rates, low marriage rates, and low child-birth rates. Since they are educated, and the women are also educated and empowered, doubt that out-of-wedlock births, teenage pregnancies etc will happen to the class of Indians who are in the US.

I don't buy this idea that education women leads to divorce. India is a strong case against it- 67% female literacy but 1%divorce.

And i don't buy this idea that the indian american community is immune to the societal rot inside USA. It will catch up to them and it's only a matter of time. The time will depend on how strongly they hold on to the traditional values. Say what you will about the church and the mullahs, they are the ones who kept marriages intact in the west. When church lost its day in family affairs, west started decaying. This is something I have noticed in every country i have examined, no exceptions.

Rammpal · Post by **Rammpal** » 08 Nov 2016 08:24

Dinesh S wrote:
And i don't buy this idea that the indian american community is immune to the societal rot inside USA. It will catch up to them and it's only a matter of time. The time will depend on how strongly they hold on to the traditional values. Say what you will about the church and the mullahs, they are the ones who kept marriages intact in the west. When church lost its day in family affairs, west started decaying. This is something I have noticed in every country i have examined, no exceptions.

Great sigh of relief !, boosted confidence, in all things Sanatana Dharma based civilization !!

Dinesh S · Post by **Dinesh S** » 08 Nov 2016 08:28

MurthyB wrote:
Dinesh S wrote:
The reason why indian Americans have lower divorce rates is because they are newer migrants to USA and hence haven't given to the hedonism/liberalism of the American culture(lol) as much as the European/blacks . This perhaps is also the reason why I think they are doing well there.
That's what I meant; that it is heading that way. I think the African American community's issues cannot be compared; there is a history there that is painful and has caused all sorts of pathologies they need to overcome. The Indians will head the way of other rich: Japanese, Europeans, or Parsees in India. High divorce rates, low marriage rates, and low child-birth rates. Since they are educated, and the women are also educated and empowered, doubt that out-of-wedlock births, teenage pregnancies etc will happen to the class of Indians who are in the US.

My issue Regarding your point about black Americans vis a vis indians is that indians have had it nearly as bad . We have been subjugated in our own land for 1000 years before our eventual freedom. Hell considering the wasted 50years of socialist era we lived in from 1947-91, i don't even think we had true freedom till 1991. So compare that with the black community. I am not downplaying what they suffered, i am saying that racism isn't the biggest reason why they perform so poorly in usa.

Also blacks are doing actually worse compared to 1930s in social indicators vis a vis whites- crime, incarceration, poverty, unemployment you name it. And i don't think racism is as bad today in usa as it was in 1960 era with jim crow laws and such. I agree with thomas sowell when he says that liberalism has wrecked much more havoc on black families than slavery could. Even if you disagree with that, you still have to agree to the point that the argument of slavery applies for indians as well as it applies for the africans.

Also, consider this- paki/bang communities suffered the same slavery indian communties did right. And yet, in all statistics, they consistently perform lower than indian communties wherever they are. Do you think that's because of culture or racism?

Dinesh S · Post by **Dinesh S** » 08 Nov 2016 08:30

Rammpal wrote:
Dinesh S wrote:
And i don't buy this idea that the indian american community is immune to the societal rot inside USA. It will catch up to them and it's only a matter of time. The time will depend on how strongly they hold on to the traditional values. Say what you will about the church and the mullahs, they are the ones who kept marriages intact in the west. When church lost its day in family affairs, west started decaying. This is something I have noticed in every country i have examined, no exceptions.
Great sigh of relief !, boosted confidence, in all things Sanatana Dharma based civilization !!

Ha ha ha. Sir, I think we need much more concrete discussions on what are the dos and donts on specific issues than just a blanket statement

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Nov 2016 09:23

Looking at stony, sullen faces of CNN presenters, I get the feeling this election is 'fixed' in favor of ..
..
..
..
.
.
.

Trump.

Guiliani: Attorney General
Gingrich: Sec of state

Deep state is always one step ahead of proleterait. Only authoritarian regime can prosecute war with Iran starting with trade embargo. Clearly Obama+Hillary's USA ain't able to lift that burden.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Nov 2016 09:25

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 08 Nov 2016 09:26

http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/early-vot ... s-hillary/

OH,NC good news for Trump

FL bad news for Trump

NV & CO not good for Trump either.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Nov 2016 09:31

Unlike hispanics the blacks have no awareness or links to their root african culture language or religion. even their surnames are that of former plantation owners whete they were forced to work...smith powell freeman simpson....such a rootless horde with no sense of their own history barring the pain of slavery and 2nd class laws, mocked by the elites and hounded the the poleece are not going to do well.

Latinos retain strong ties to country, language, family networks and catholicism

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Nov 2016 09:38

vijayk wrote:http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/early-vot ... s-hillary/

OH,NC good news for Trump

FL bad news for Trump

NV & CO not good for Trump either.

they are all very good for Trump. Do not be fooled by ridicuolus statistics by CNN, ABC, NBC

Nevada is 40,00,000 white and 900,000 hispanic registered voters. Trump will win here in a landslide.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 08 Nov 2016 09:39

Trump is gonna loose. QED

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 08 Nov 2016 10:17

Donald J Trump will win decisively tomorrow. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. Some young guys on this board with lot of ideas, and numbers and seems to know a lot about this swing state and that poll, are completely missing the point. You have to look and feel the emotions on the street as they say wake up and smell the coffee. Wind is blowing strongly in donald,s favor and tomorow will prove it beyond any doubt . He will be great for USA and good for India.
Welcome Mr Trump , the 45th president of the USA.

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 Nov 2016 11:15

vijayk wrote:FL bad news for Trump

LoL., here are the numbers from your link:

Republican total: 2,403,171 (39%)
Democrat total: 2,435,699 (39.6%)

So in early voting democrats are leading republicans by 32k. Assuming there is no cross-voting between Dems and Repubs.

Now 'unaffiliated' is 700k.

If unaffiliated are split in half between Dems and Repubs (unlikely., and HRC has given up florida) - Dems are leading by a slender 32k! And main voting is going to happen in tomorrow's florida panhandle - completely republican country.

And by the way., lot of Cubans are clubbed as Latinos and they do NOT like mexicans.

So just going by some numbers and stating Trump has lost florida is just lame. Trump may lose florida just yet., but first let us wait for the real results to come in.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Nov 2016 11:18

The whole system is rigged for Hillary to win , DNC,MSM ,Journalist ,Wall Street ,FBI .... you name it ....She might well be a dead corpse today but she would still win.

Imgine Hillary standing now and lecturing other countries about democracy when she in collusion with DNC unfairly treated Bernie Sanders her own party colleague

Rammpal · Post by **Rammpal** » 08 Nov 2016 11:29

Dinesh S wrote: Ha ha ha. Sir, I think we need much more concrete discussions on what are the dos and donts on specific issues than just a blanket statement

Actually, I wanted to bring in astrology as well. However, wasn't too sure about the reception !

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Nov 2016 11:43

Dinesh S wrote:
MurthyB wrote:
That's what I meant; that it is heading that way. I think the African American community's issues cannot be compared; there is a history there that is painful and has caused all sorts of pathologies they need to overcome. The Indians will head the way of other rich: Japanese, Europeans, or Parsees in India. High divorce rates, low marriage rates, and low child-birth rates. Since they are educated, and the women are also educated and empowered, doubt that out-of-wedlock births, teenage pregnancies etc will happen to the class of Indians who are in the US.
I don't buy this idea that education women leads to divorce. India is a strong case against it- 67% female literacy but 1%divorce.

And i don't buy this idea that the indian american community is immune to the societal rot inside USA. It will catch up to them and it's only a matter of time. The time will depend on how strongly they hold on to the traditional values. Say what you will about the church and the mullahs, they are the ones who kept marriages intact in the west. When church lost its day in family affairs, west started decaying. This is something I have noticed in every country i have examined, no exceptions.

It's still early days for female literacy. 1-2 generations max. But it's more than that: it's the idea that women are equal to men, can have the same careers etc. That is what leads to more breakups as is already happening, unless adjustments are made. In the west, many choose to not marry at all, which is one reason for the birthrate decline in all advanced countries. The US avoids only due to immigrants. White in the US are dying out too. It's not societal rot, just a consequence of the modern economy and individual-based paradigm. Traditional values can't exist by themselves where everything else has changed. Anyway, you seem to be saying the same thing as I am.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 08 Nov 2016 11:51

Dinesh S wrote: My issue Regarding your point about black Americans vis a vis indians is that indians have had it nearly as bad . We have been subjugated in our own land for 1000 years before our eventual freedom. Hell considering the wasted 50years of socialist era we lived in from 1947-91, i don't even think we had true freedom till 1991. So compare that with the black community. I am not downplaying what they suffered, i am saying that racism isn't the biggest reason why they perform so poorly in usa.

Also blacks are doing actually worse compared to 1930s in social indicators vis a vis whites- crime, incarceration, poverty, unemployment you name it. And i don't think racism is as bad today in usa as it was in 1960 era with jim crow laws and such. I agree with thomas sowell when he says that liberalism has wrecked much more havoc on black families than slavery could. Even if you disagree with that, you still have to agree to the point that the argument of slavery applies for indians as well as it applies for the africans.

Also, consider this- paki/bang communities suffered the same slavery indian communties did right. And yet, in all statistics, they consistently perform lower than indian communties wherever they are. Do you think that's because of culture or racism?

When you read about the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and how slaves were captured, transported and treated here, it is hard to find any other behavior in history that matches the brutality of that crime against humanity. Undoubtedly, the Hindus genocided and enslaved by the muslims suffered greatly, but they didn't survive that and then suffer more mental and emotional torture for centuries, and exist in the same society that enslaved them to be examined today. I think African Americans have to be analyzed as a separate case study, and nothing is gained from comparing it to the Indian case. And while a case can be made that liberal entitlements foster a pathological dependency that discourages individual responsibility and industry, there is more to it than that I think. In any case, I do agree that today racism isn't an excuse, which is why that community needs to introspect and overcome their deficiencies. And 'liberals' who continue to encourage racism as the answer are morons, which is one of the reasons I am supporting Trump in this election

With pakis there is no doubt it's culture+religion

.

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 Nov 2016 12:22

Viv S wrote: I don't "hate" him. I just think he's a fool. And again I must emphasize, while the term is usually used in a purely pejorative sense, I intend it entirely as a dry clinical adjective (though perhaps a psychiatrist would describe him as 'irrational', 'paranoid' & 'self-destructive').

Hmmmm... An irrational, paranoid and self-destructive fool is

1. Has some $3-4 Billion in wealth
2. Has some iconic landmarks in his name
3. Has a great family (which even his opponent publicly acknowledged)

And in the republican primaries., ran as an outsider in a total 17 person field and beat each of them fair and square and in the process broke the all-time record of winning the most primary votes.

So to call such a person a 'fool' just because he sees an opportunity which is later exploited is pure foolishness and intellectual dishonesty.

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 Nov 2016 12:26

Austin wrote:Imgine Hillary standing now and lecturing other countries about democracy when she in collusion with DNC unfairly treated Bernie Sanders her own party colleague

And talking about woman & child rights as well. Well Monica was a 22 year old when she started doing special jobs for Bill. And Hillary did not take care of her rights!

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Nov 2016 12:35

And talking about human rights when the Clinton Foundation has accepted $2 billion from middle east Sunni tyrants and thugs. The kind of people who abuse Filipino and Bangladeshi servants.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Nov 2016 13:02

Mort Walker wrote:And talking about human rights when the Clinton Foundation has accepted $2 billion from middle east Sunni tyrants and thugs. The kind of people who abuse Filipino and Bangladeshi servants.

1 million from Quatari for Clinton foundation is what wiki leaks said plus other from ME countries specially saudi.

"I Just Lost All Faith In Our Deeply Corrupt Legal System And In The Rule Of Law In The US"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-0 ... ule-law-us

Just last month, Bryan Nishimura, a California Naval reservist, was sentenced to two years’ probation and a $7,500 fine after he pleaded guilty to removing classified material and downloading it to a personal electronic device. The FBI found no evidence he planned to distribute the material.

Last year, Bronze Star recipient and combat veteran Chief Petty Officer Lyle White pleaded guilty to storing classified documents on a nonsecure hard drive in Virginia. He received a suspended 60-day sentence and a suspended $10,000 fine in return for the plea. White said the information was for training purposes to study and that he had no intent to communicate with anyone.

Neither of those individuals intended to mishandle classified information, and they certainly never intended to share it.

But they were both convicted anyway.

So what makes Hillary Clinton any different?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 08 Nov 2016 13:09

Err...Trump is no great shakes as businessman. His "billions" come from his own evaluation of his name brand.

His real worth is much less and folks have evaluated that as having performed worse than index funds considering the money he started out with in 80s.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Nov 2016 13:35

Interesting that most Indian-Americans and Pakistani-Americans are united in their support of Hillary.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Nov 2016 14:43

Foxnews

An obscure private firm hired by the State Department over internal objections to protect U.S. diplomats in Benghazi just months before the American ambassador and three others were killed was staffed with hastily recruited locals with terror ties who helped carry out the attack, multiple sources told Fox News.

The explosive charge against Wales-based Blue Mountain Group comes from several sources, including an independent security specialist who has implemented training programs at U.S. Consulates around the world, including in Benghazi, where he trained a local militia that preceded Blue Mountain. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Blue Mountain used local newspaper ads to assemble a team of 20 guards, many of whom had terror ties, after securing a $9.2 million annual contract.

John Tiegen
John "Tig" Tiegen was there and says guards turned on Americans.
“The guards who were hired were locals who were part of the Ansar al-Sharia and Al Qaeda groups operating in Benghazi,” said the source, whose assignment in Benghazi had ended in November 2011. “Whoever approved contracts at the State Department hired Blue Mountain Group and then allowed Blue Mountain Group to hire local Libyans who were not vetted.”

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 08 Nov 2016 15:06

the economist has an interesting article this week on the elections (as expected); some key things

1. pew poll research shows that trump's core support is from male whites who feel that somehow they have lost out, they are not all working class or unemployed, but feel threatened by a changing world; even in rust belt or coal country - his support is from working men
2. racism to a large extent underpins this sense of a changing world that is out of control (another study cited in the article)
3. "stand your ground" thinking - where you can 'defend' yourself and your family with lethal force under almost any circumstances is moving from gun ownership issues to politics - and this is leading to a lot more anti-establishment aggression
4. Clinton == establishment == bad (no ifs, no buts)
5. Obama == bad (largely because its 'just not possible that a black man could be president of a white america' mindset in this group)
6. Clinton == more Obama == more bad
7. trump is trade protectionist and his tarrifs will hurt the working union men who are supporting him, the most
8. tax regime proposed by trump favours the rich and will disproportionately hurt the poor
9. Clinton doesn't come out smelling of roses in the review either, but she's not as unhinged as Trump on policy and she's certainly not stoking up the mob - and this is what is going to destroy the republican party and will cause the democrats severe problems in the future
10. the demise of main stream media and its replacement by right wing talk shows and internet 'news' has taken intelligent debate into the gutter and panders to any nightmare fantast and conspiracy theory out there

in the meantime, lets make America white again!!

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Nov 2016 15:12

In the actual polls that took place tonight in New Hampshire and in early voting trends, the notable feature was that the blacks didn't show up at all. Not in numbers for Obama, not anywhere in vicinity. This is as per democrats internal poll data. This resulted in sudden despondancy in Hillary campaign at last moment.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 08 Nov 2016 15:28

And in the republican primaries., ran as an outsider in a total 17 person field and beat each of them fair and square and in the process broke the all-time record of winning the most primary votes.

He did break that record. Could you also please point me to any Republican candidate ever to participate in the primary that has had more people vote against him/her?

What your number shows is that there was an increase in the GOP primary turnout, (which is usually expected if your party has been out of the white house for 8 years) and that Trump won with a plurality (44%) of the popular primary vote, as opposed to Mitt Romney from 4 years ago who secured a majority (52%). Out of the last four candidates, Only McCain at 46% has missed the popular vote majority. Romney and Bush both secured it, as did Bob Dole in 1996.

In fact, when was the last time a Republican nominee had less than 45% of the primary popular vote?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 08 Nov 2016 15:33

the black vote will be critical in a number of states for the democrats
that's why the trumpistas have been busy trying to intimidate them for the last few months
the republicans have also been busy for years getting blacks eliminated from electoral rolls and changing voting times so that poor and working black people will not be able to get to the polls
note the hoo hah amongst trumpistas when the Nevada polls stayed open to let Hispanics vote late...
it is a rigged election...

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Nov 2016 15:43

It was not a problem with elimination from voting roll, more like fatigue and disinterest after being played by an african american president.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Nov 2016 15:46

Kashi wrote:Interesting that most Indian-Americans and Pakistani-Americans are united in their support of Hillary.

Thats probably because it would benefit those thousand of NRI businessman out there , Its more of a personal gain for many of these people because of business link , I just saw news clipping of Mr Chatwal a Big hotelier professing his friendship with hillary and how he knew her for long time and how donald trump would throw all the NRI kids out of country

These folks are more interested in their personal wealth enrichment due to their contacts then any real concern or benefit for India , ofcourse they always use the countrys name for their gains

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 08 Nov 2016 15:48

Thats probably because it would benefit those thousand of NRI businessman out there , Its more of a personal gain for many of these people because of business link

If you are a businessman/women you are likely to have a favorable tax system under Republican control. I wouldn't look at the large businessmen out there, most of the self employed first generation Indian-Americans are small business owners.

But its getting totally flipped now. The GOP, the party that historically championed free trade and a market economy has a populist, protectionist president that is unafraid to enter into trade wars with he top trading partners. Who knows what policy actually comes out if he is elected since he has practically been on either side of every consequential issues while inventing new sides to be on on along the way as well.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 08 Nov 2016 15:51

habal wrote:It was not a problem with elimination from voting roll, more like fatigue and disinterest after being played by an african american president.

both problems exist - the latter is because they are not inspired by insipid politicians, the former is because one group is actively cheating another

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 08 Nov 2016 15:54

note the hoo hah amongst trumpistas when the Nevada polls stayed open to let Hispanics vote late...
it is a rigged election...

Simple rule is that if you are in line by the poll-close time you will get to vote. This applies on ED as well. That's the call the poll superintendent took at the Cardenas market and many other polling locations in NV, FL and NC as well. Similarly, there was a traffic accident in Miami-Dade County on Sunday and the democrats asked for a 2 hour extension for one of the polling locations, which was denied by the superintendent. They went to a judge and got an order to extend the polls till 9 PM.

Dinesh S · Post by **Dinesh S** » 08 Nov 2016 16:12

MurthyB wrote:
Dinesh S wrote: I don't buy this idea that education women leads to divorce. India is a strong case against it- 67% female literacy but 1%divorce.

And i don't buy this idea that the indian american community is immune to the societal rot inside USA. It will catch up to them and it's only a matter of time. The time will depend on how strongly they hold on to the traditional values. Say what you will about the church and the mullahs, they are the ones who kept marriages intact in the west. When church lost its day in family affairs, west started decaying. This is something I have noticed in every country i have examined, no exceptions.
It's still early days for female literacy. 1-2 generations max. But it's more than that: it's the idea that women are equal to men, can have the same careers etc. That is what leads to more breakups as is already happening, unless adjustments are made. In the west, many choose to not marry at all, which is one reason for the birthrate decline in all advanced countries. The US avoids only due to immigrants. White in the US are dying out too. It's not societal rot, just a consequence of the modern economy and individual-based paradigm. Traditional values can't exist by themselves where everything else has changed. Anyway, you seem to be saying the same thing as I am.

I am not sure how exactly you consider this unsustainable swamp of high divorce rates , single mother rates, low tfr and the consequent high time rates as "advanced society". Seriously how is this not societal rot?. When I finished my mbbs, the most important thing which turned me off regarding emigrating to USA is the societal decadence which is seen in usa today .

Answer honestly, outside the liberal buzzwords of women equality, empowerment, whatnot , would you rather have your daughter/grand daughter a family life like your mother/grandmother(like in indian society) or would you rather have them die alone miserable and single with a cat , albeit strong independent who needs men like fish needs bicycle, like most western women are expected to at the moment(i think the current % was 55%)? Consider the alternate proposition - would you rather have your son earning the income which an average indian earns in india or and average indian earns in America. What would be the answer for both questions.

If you answer honestly to both questions and choose a particular answer, that will demonstrate which option among the two is actually superior and it would be Indian styled family while american level income. Ergo, indian societal/family structure is superior while american economy is superior. So no, the state of western families is not indicative of superior/advanced societies just because they have better income.

Dinesh S · Post by **Dinesh S** » 08 Nov 2016 16:21

MurthyB wrote:
Dinesh S wrote: My issue Regarding your point about black Americans vis a vis indians is that indians have had it nearly as bad . We have been subjugated in our own land for 1000 years before our eventual freedom. Hell considering the wasted 50years of socialist era we lived in from 1947-91, i don't even think we had true freedom till 1991. So compare that with the black community. I am not downplaying what they suffered, i am saying that racism isn't the biggest reason why they perform so poorly in usa.

Also blacks are doing actually worse compared to 1930s in social indicators vis a vis whites- crime, incarceration, poverty, unemployment you name it. And i don't think racism is as bad today in usa as it was in 1960 era with jim crow laws and such. I agree with thomas sowell when he says that liberalism has wrecked much more havoc on black families than slavery could. Even if you disagree with that, you still have to agree to the point that the argument of slavery applies for indians as well as it applies for the africans.

Also, consider this- paki/bang communities suffered the same slavery indian communties did right. And yet, in all statistics, they consistently perform lower than indian communties wherever they are. Do you think that's because of culture or racism?
When you read about the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and how slaves were captured, transported and treated here, it is hard to find any other behavior in history that matches the brutality of that crime against humanity. Undoubtedly, the Hindus genocided and enslaved by the muslims suffered greatly, but they didn't survive that and then suffer more mental and emotional torture for centuries, and exist in the same society that enslaved them to be examined today. I think African Americans have to be analyzed as a separate case study, and nothing is gained from comparing it to the Indian case. And while a case can be made that liberal entitlements foster a pathological dependency that discourages individual responsibility and industry, there is more to it than that I think. In any case, I do agree that today racism isn't an excuse, which is why that community needs to introspect and overcome their deficiencies. And 'liberals' who continue to encourage racism as the answer are morons, which is one of the reasons I am supporting Trump in this election

With pakis there is no doubt it's culture+religion .

Trans Atlantic trade happened at what 17th century? So blacks have been enslaved for 3 centuries? Hindus have been dhimmis under muslims/british rule for 10 centuries. So Why could hindus achieve in usa while blacks are struggling?

Btw, interesting fact i came across this issue- for all the talk about liberalism, women empowerment, "insert liberal buzzword" in usa and western world, the majority of taxes are still being paid by men( i think to the tune of 60%). But the majority of drawing from the welfare states are by women(i think to the tune of 60%). So nothing much has actually changed because of liberalism in western world other than making women there miserable and alone. Before this advent of feminism and its march to destroy family, men earned most of the wealth and gave to women to raise families through family. Now because of feminism, men earn most of the wealth and give to women for raising families through government. Of course in the case of latter, the child is raised without a father and hence with all the added bonuses of being raised without a father like high crime rate, incarceration , poverty etc.

Regarding Pakis, yeah well that is one reason why i don't think the answer is strict religion either. After all, i am pretty sure pakis have as low a divorce rates as hindus and yet still fare poorly in usa. So we need to know what makes the indian communties to do better in usa and have prevented indian society from decaying into chaos like africa has. It must be the combination of religion and it's strong traditional values in science and education( how many religions do you know have separate deities for education and knowledge like Hindus?)

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 08 Nov 2016 16:23

Last Florida EV update given that most of the data for Sunday is in. This is a demographic data on Early Voting compared to 2012 :

- White : + 900,000 ( +27%)
- Hispanic : +454,000 ( +87%)
- AA : + 71,000 (9.2%)
- Others : +121,000 (48%)

Obama's last minute Florida push seems to have worked to get more AA's out early. 2 Sunday's and 2 "Souls to the Polls " would have also contributed in these higher numbers since there was only one EV Sunday in 2012. However, this is likely to be partly due to cannibalization as most expect the overall AA turnout to be a few percentage points lower than 2012.

These numbers don't look good for Trump (when 40% of the higher EV turnout is fueled by non-whites) or the GOP's GOTV effort which has improved but so far has not been shown to be as effective as the democrats when it comes to getting low propensity voters out early ( those that have not voted in the last 3 elections (President and non-presidential) or have voted in 1 of 3). High early turnout amongst hight propensity voters generally points to cannibalization. The higher white turnout is merely keeping pace with the overall increase in EV and not adding significantly to the overall %age from 2012. In fact, this is the most diverse EV electorate Florida has ever had with white %age of the EV vote-share down from 2012.

Trump would need to bring out massive number of white voters today to compensate. As I had mentioned earlier, the number to watch is Dade and Broward turnout. If more than 1.2 Million people vote in Dade, Florida it could be game over. Florida could still go either way!

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 08 Nov 2016 16:46

Dinesh S wrote: So Why could hindus achieve in usa while blacks are struggling?

Ever heard of "Jim Crow" or "40 acres and a mule"? That may answer your questions.

Coming to think of it, We too have psychologically broken, rootless macaulayized families with each generation out sepoying themselves than the preceding one.

Dinesh S · Post by **Dinesh S** » 08 Nov 2016 17:03

LokeshC wrote:
Dinesh S wrote: So Why could hindus achieve in usa while blacks are struggling?
Ever heard of "Jim Crow" or "40 acres and a mule"? That may answer your questions.

Coming to think of it, We too have psychologically broken, rootless macaulayized families with each generation out sepoying themselves than the preceding one.

For the first point, as if indians had it any better. We weren't exactly given rockstar treatment either. Most of the Caribbean indians are there because they were taken there as indentured servants.

Regarding second point. You don't say. I don't see any other reason for anyone sane to even think that the high divorce rates and single mother rates of the western societies is a sign of "advanced society" other than because they are so thoroughly colonised by the western ideals. Since when does better wealth equatr to better character/societal ideal etc in indian society? Aren't we the same people who have the idea that wealth and character are different? So Why do people here assume that since west has better income than india/asian societies, itmust automatically mean that they have better/advanced societies?

Btw, as i already pointed out, the devastation of black families under liberal/progressive/women don't need no man families is far greater than what it was under jim crow laws. Do you honestly expect that state can replace the role of a father in family? And this is a question to all liberals here- would they have reached the positions they are now today if their parents were divorced /separated when they were children and if they had grown up without a father?

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 08 Nov 2016 17:14

Dinesh S wrote:

Anyway, this is a very important debate which hasn't taken place in brf yet and we need to start it now. If we don't, all the successes the indian community has achieved in usa will vanish when it becomes as "cultured" and "enlightened" as the blacks/white community of USA. And of course without family values, india will become a carbon copy of africa .

Dinesh Ji, may I suggest you start a separate topic on this issue, I hope the admins will let you do that. I do agree with you on one point that maybe it is time to revisit this matter.

On a larger note, I do not believe societies that have a higher divorce rate are necessarily undergoing 'societal rot'. As for religion and divorce, that too, IMHO while perhaps influencing the statistics has very little to do with societal happiness.

This is very much OT for this thread, but I would love to debate this separately with you. Let us leave it at that.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Nov 2016 17:17

blacks are in unofficial civil disobediance movement since past many decades, but have no social discipline to carry it off. That is also main difference between them and other ethnic groups, ie ability to hunker down, go below radar and work towards a common goal and form social support structures.