Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jun 2017 07:46

^^ Except we will see on BRF:
* as to how it was the users fault
* it cannot be design issue with the Russians
* it is actually a great plane which should have been bought in 100s by India to help out a old friend

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 22 Jun 2017 08:33

srai wrote:
shaun wrote: courtesy India Defence

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/618 ... -tech.html
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 731253.ece
How many more planned?

FDN-1 of Indian Navy originally built by M/s Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries Co Ltd at Aioi shipyard, Japan and delivered to M/s Escorts, India in October 1983, the dock was inducted into the Indian Navy on July 11, 1987.I guess FDN-1 will be decommissioned soon and will be replace by FDN-2. No other FDN in pipeline till date.

srai · Post by **srai** » 22 Jun 2017 08:52

^^^

I guess other major naval bases like INS Kadamba have their own land-based ship-lift system.

INS Kadamba

...Key facilities include the 10,000 tonne, 175 m x 28 m ship lift, a ship transfer system for dry docking at the Naval Ship Repair Yard...

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 22 Jun 2017 09:49

Many of these floating drydocks (not this one) are made of concrete, yes concrete, they last forever.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Jun 2017 19:13

Or even stone,like the first one in Bombay. The FDN-1 could even dock a sub,but what we need in the A&N islands are dedicated sub pens and some level of specialised sub repair and maintenance ,which would not require our subs (diesels not N-boats) to return to the mainland bases. A new sub tender (successor yo INS Amba class) could be on permanent station there for further support. I remember that the head of the A&N defence used to be called "Fortress Commander" some time ago, These islands should be the launching pad for our offensive ops against the PLAN/PRC and the infrastructure there should be upgraded on a war footing,esp. airstrips with lengthened runways,so that all types of fighter and transport aircraft can operate from them.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 22 Jun 2017 23:31

Defence shipping deals to be thrown open to private companies

All future contracts for warships and other requirements of the Indian Navy will be awarded after competitive bidding, according to a policy framework approved by the Prime Minister’s Office.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 22 Jun 2017 23:47

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 274194.cms

Very big deal, though the price tag, as always seems excessive. Consider a scenario with a few of these drones stationed at Andamans, patrolling in the Mallaca straits area, while a few hundred kms behind them are Indian destroyers equipped with long range Brahmos. These will enable our ships to do very long range 'sniping' shots and allow them to exploit the full range of the missile.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 23 Jun 2017 01:57

What are these drones exactly, i didn't find much info on Guardian version of predator drones. Can these fly on top of Karachi undetected or atleast unmolested in peacetime? Pakistan is on record saying that they can intercept anything at predator flying altitude. So what is the altitude of these puppies?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 23 Jun 2017 02:03

sudeepj wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 274194.cms

Very big deal, though the price tag, as always seems excessive. Consider a scenario with a few of these drones stationed at Andamans, patrolling in the Mallaca straits area, while a few hundred kms behind them are Indian destroyers equipped with long range Brahmos. These will enable our ships to do very long range 'sniping' shots and allow them to exploit the full range of the missile.

IN was always interested in the BAMS version to augment P8s. IA I think was interested in the Avenger version. The price tag seems to indicate a higher value item. The lower level predator stuff with low payload is probably cheaper from Israel.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 23 Jun 2017 03:06

FDN is not a "ship", its more of a submersible barge.

IN has many interesting vessels of varying complexity. Take this one for example;

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 04:14

Katare wrote:What are these drones exactly, i didn't find much info on Guardian version of predator drones. Can these fly on top of Karachi undetected or atleast unmolested in peacetime? Pakistan is on record saying that they can intercept anything at predator flying altitude. So what is the altitude of these puppies?

This was a part of their unsuccessful bid to win the US Navy BAMS platform where the Navy went for the higher end, higher performance Global Hawk based platform (now named the Triton) forcing General atomic to switch platforms to the sea avenger late in the game. Since then General Atomics has changed the platform from the standard Predator, to the certifiable predator B that they developed for the UK. This now forms the basis of their maritime offering. From an older Jane's article I had posted earlier -

General Atomics' Predator and Predator B (Reaper) aircraft are today synonymous with UAS operations, particularly in Afghanistan where the ISR and strike capabilities they provide are lauded but also attract controversy. However, relatively little attention has been paid to the maritime patrol variant of the aircraft, which has been developed and is in operation.

While General Atomics, as part of a Lockheed Martin-led team, was unsuccessful in its bid for BAMS, the company has continued work in the maritime domain. The maritime Predator, otherwise known as Guardian, does not directly build on the BAMS offering, but instead leverages experience from Predator B. As Christopher Ames, General Atomics' Director of International Strategic Development, explained: "All countries seem to be interested in improving the accountability and transparency of the maritime approaches and domain in general. So we sought to transform the Predator B to give it a maritime capability as well ... the beauty is that we didn't change the engine or airframe, we took the Predator B - which now has over 500,000 flight hours - and transformed it into a maritime aircraft."

The major design change, Ames explained, is the addition of a centreline hard point to the fuselage that can be fitted with a company-developed pod that houses a digital, multirole maritime radar with surface-search capabilities. These are the same types of radar that are found in traditional MPAs, and in the case of the US Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) Guardian, is Raytheon's SeaVue system.

One of the key design features of the aircraft is the ability to reconfigure it from an overland platform to one geared for maritime operations. As long as it is fitted with the centreline hard point it can quickly be reconfigured on the flight line in a 'plug-and-play' fashion, Ames said.

The development of the maritime search capability for the aircraft began in 2004 when it was flown with the USN, with the US Coast Guard off the Aleutian Islands, and in an exercise in Canada; these flights were followed in 2006 when the aircraft took part in the 'Trident Warrior' exercise and operated off the northwest coast of Australia. Work on the platform has continued since then and the aircraft is now effectively 'productionised'.

Operations in the littoral environment have become a focus for the US and other navies recently and this is one area that Ames believes the maritime variant of Predator B has utility, in part due to it being equipped with an AIS. "Nations around the world want to know what's approaching the coast; we have perfect information of aircraft approaching a country, with IFF and so forth. This brings greater accountability to the maritime domain." In the US, the CBP service has been employing the aircraft in counter narcotics and illegal immigration roles.

Ames, who has a P-3C Orion background, believes that the maritime Predator may also be suited to filling roles occupied by this and similar aircraft. "This provides equal measure or more than a Nimrod, for example for surface surveillance, because it's sending its real time datalink information back to wherever it's desired at multiple locations, so it's spreading the information around. The aircraft [maritime Predator] is equipped with an EO/IR device that is normally used on the Predator B [Raytheon's Common Sensor Payload] and both beyond line-of-sight [SATCOM] and line-of-sight datalinks, so it gives tremendous operational flexibility, with very powerful maritime surveillance capabilities at a fraction of the cost [of a manned platform]."

While the surface search radar and optical systems are likely to be the primary sensors employed in the maritime role, the aircraft can also be equipped with a number of other packages including signals intelligence, and ESM payloads, a traffic collision avoidance system, dual ARC-210 radios, and dual-Wulfsberg radios.

Growth in the capabilities of the aircraft could see it take on roles such as ASW, Ames said. "With the aircraft capable of carrying 3,000 lb across 6 hard points that could relate to sonar buoys, so I foresee an ever-growing role in the maritime domain for the aircraft beyond the pure surface surveillance that it is now conducting." Ames said that the large payload and electrical generation capacity are key attributes for the growth in the range of systems carried on the aircraft, noting that developments in the payloads themselves will impact the capabilities provided by the maritime Predator. "As you see the miniaturisation of technology you realise that capabilities that existed previously on only large manned aircraft can now be shrunk to the size that they can be podded on a Guardian or Predator B and provide equal capability."

As for growth in the air vehicle itself, Ames said that work was under way. "We've developed an extended range version of the Predator B which would extend its endurance from its current 27-30 hours up to 42 hours in an ISR mode, so that's a dramatic increase in capability. You can imagine that would be of great value to everyone, especially to areas of great distances like in the Pacific." Flight trials have yet to be conducted on this new variant, but according to Ames there has been considerable interest.

Ames said the Predator C 'Avenger' could be equipped with the same payloads, albeit in a faster aircraft with less endurance, to enable it to operate in a maritime role.

UAS operating in a maritime patrol role close to or in civilian airspace will require technologies that enable their integration. Ames said that the maritime Predator B has already demonstrated its credentials in this area when deployed by US CBP. The platform operates under Instrument Flight Rules and has triple redundancy in its avionics, flight control systems, and control surfaces.

General Atomics has also conducted demonstrations of automatic sense and avoid technologies. In August 2012 a Guardian aircraft equipped with the company's Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) system flew off the Florida coast and detected other ADS-B-equipped aircraft in the same air space. It then notified those aircraft and air traffic control of its location and velocity.

Can these fly on top of Karachi undetected or atleast unmolested in peacetime? Pakistan is on record saying that they can intercept anything at predator flying altitude. So what is the altitude of these puppies?

These will be configured for maritime surveillance with possible wide area sensors. They are designed to fill the gaps between manned maritime surveillance platforms like the P-8. The USN chose to do the same with the Triton but since it is a higher end platform it will serve significant other roles due to its HALE nature and higher payload. A predator B based system will probably house an RF and IR based sensors, data links and compatible hardware that can communicate with the P-8 Is.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 23 Jun 2017 05:03

Thanks Brar! You rock man!

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Jun 2017 05:44

^^ Is Brar ji some sot of US DoD bot( not meaning in a bad way but in admiration) who just zooms into any discussion involving US weapons and puts out tonloads of relevant and amazing data?

Hat tip to you, sire

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 05:54

It would be interesting to see if this goes through and if so what sensor suite they choose. The current US aircraft are equipped with the Enhanced SeaVue XMC while General Atomics has its own ESA sensor in the Lynx which comes in a smaller footprint. Thales (iirc) also offers sensors compatible with the Predator B and has dual maritime and land based SAR and GMTI capability. They all are in the X and Ku bands.

Will wait to see if this is actually something based in reality or just resurfacing of older discussions. Predator/Avenger and even Triton talks have surfaced multiple times only to go nowhere and the Guardian product that GA had on offer (and one that the US operates) has since been replaced by their Sea Guardian offering that now includes their internally funded certifiable predator platform.

Is Brar ji some sot of US DoD bot

Yes, but running outdated software.

Cybaru wrote:The price tag seems to indicate a higher value item.

The UK FMS announcement for 26 Certifiable B's was around a $1 Billion - http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/un ... d-aircraft

There will be costs associated with larger sensors and the MOD could be looking at deeper customizations and a long term support deal which is generally based on the annual guaranteed availability which for these things could be thousands of hours per aircraft given that they have long duration orbits.

If these news reports are accurate and not just some opportunistic reporters trying to get ahead of a potential meeting by floating unconfirmed reports, then I'd expect the MOD to negotiate a commercial deal with systems comping through FMS. In that case media report estimates won't be very accurate unless they are privy to the internal discussions and configurations being sought.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Jun 2017 13:07

This is a huge deal.Kudos to those who've been responsible on both sides for clinching it! As pointed out for aeons,we need to leverage our geographical advantages such as the A&N islands,etc. With the retirement of the Bear,these long endurance UCAVs will fill the gap to a large extent. The only issue being what kind of missiles it can carry capable of significant damage to an enemy warship.If ltwt. torpedoes can also be carried,then the capability further expands in prosecuting enemy subs at enhanced ranges. Should we set up/possess a network of undersea sensors like SOSUS,esp. at the chokepoints into the IOR ,networked with the UCAVs and P-8Is,plus a number of mini-subs/small subs also based out of A&N.PLAN subs will find it very difficult to ingress into the IOR undetected.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 14:43

MSUASs don't carry any significant anti-ship missiles. The concept of operation is to generate persistent ISR orbits through RF and IR situational awareness and pass these along through the LOS or NLOS data-link for either targeting or further interrogation. They are there to provide persistent situational awareness. You only need 1 to 2 aircraft to maintain 24 hour orbits, something that would take many times more to do from manned assets such as the P-8I.

The total internal+external payload including that budgeted for internal sensors (SeaVue XCS and the IR sensor, likely Raytheon's MTS-B) is roughly 1700 kg, perhaps a little more with the improved CP configuration.

The Sea Guardian (If indeed the IN goes for the current configuration and not the older variant that the US CSG operates) is essentially a 'Lite' version of this minus the Triton level SIGINT/ESM payloads and capacity to act as a comms node. -

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 23 Jun 2017 15:05

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Cabinet
22-June-2017 18:12 IST
Cabinet approves Constitution of Indian Naval Material Management Service (INMMS) as an Organized Group ‘A’ Engineering Service

The Union Cabinet chaired by the Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has approved constitution of an organized Group ‘A’ Engineering Service, namely Indian Naval Material Management Service (INMMS) and consequent changes in cadre structure of existing Group ‘A’ cadre of Naval Store Officers of the Indian Navy.

Constitution of an Organized Group ‘A’ Service would attract the best talents available and bring in technically qualified Material Managers. It will improve the functional efficiency of Material Management of Naval Stores and ensure operational readiness of the Navy at all times.

The proposed INMMS would attract the best talents available and will provide a reservoir of technically qualified Material Managers for handling the Materials Management functions of Indian Navy. It will improve the functional efficiency of Material Management of Naval Stores and ensure operational readiness of the Navy at all times as well as provide better career prospects for the incumbents.

***

KSD/VBA/SH

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 23 Jun 2017 16:39

Is that a civilians trade?

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 23 Jun 2017 17:18

Guardian Specs

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 17:23

ShauryaT wrote:Guardian Specs

Since they sold the Guardian to the CSG and offered in the market they have moved ahead with the Certifiable B and have a customer already funded (UK) that has ordered 26 including options. They have since then created the Sea Guardian as the baseline version which is claimed to offer better performance.

http://www.uasvision.com/2017/01/30/gen ... r-variant/

New Version of Predator Drone Makes Record 48-Hour-Long Flight

General Atomics Aeronautical Systems announced its MQ-9B SkyGuardian, a new version of the iconic Predator drone, set an endurance record of two days airborne.

The aircraft took off May 16 from the Yuma Proving Grounds in Arizona with 6,065 pounds of fuel. The drone flew at altitudes between 25,000 and 35,000 feet and landed 48.2 hours later on May 18 with 280 pounds of reserve fuel.

The San Diego company’s previous endurance record for a remotely piloted aircraft was held by a Predator XP, which flew 46.1 hours in February 2015.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 23 Jun 2017 17:36

^A UAV that can fly for 48 hours, cruising at 200+ Knots can do a lot more than surveillance over littoral waters only. The only part I do not like is the unarmed aspect of it. May work for USG not for IN.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 23 Jun 2017 17:48

ShauryaT wrote:^A UAV that can fly for 48 hours, cruising at 200+ Knots can do a lot more than surveillance over littoral waters only. The only part I do not like is the unarmed aspect of it. May work for USG not for IN.

These should allow us to dominate whole of the Bay, Malacca Straits, the entire shipping corridor south of Sri Lanka, and piracy infested waters east of Africa. Automatic 24h patrolling can be undertaken with these and other assets pressed in when needed. These will be much cheaper to operate than P-8Is. Huge force multipliers! Armed versions can wait.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 17:49

There are limitations on what weapons can be carried since there is weight and envelop margin due to the sensor payload and drag but theoretically you could mount any Predator family compliant weapon if you so choose on the platform within the weight margins that exist after the radar and other equipment is installed.

Not sure whether armed aircraft were under discussion here but strictly in the maritime and littorals context, with room for additional data-link and India specific comms equipment the stand off, altitude_launched weapons I see that can effectively bring some sort of autonomous fire and forget capabilities through weather would be the SDBII and the HAAWC (though Laser SDB is also being integrated). While its too early to tell what the HAAWC would come in at in terms of weight and size, but the former is actually planned to be integrated on the Predator family and is funded by the US Air Force Special Operations Command.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 23 Jun 2017 17:54

Did not mean to say the aircraft does not work for IN, just the unarmed part of it. I am presuming US is withholding armed versions of its fleet as the only reason and not a lack of interest on IN's part in those versions.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 17:59

Not sure what the details of the discussion are between the new US administration and the GOI but from my understanding this has been a Maritime aircraft specification which would from the perspective of tactical usefulness and CONOPS eliminate many of the weapons already integrated on the Predator family but as I mentioned earlier there are a few interesting ones that have unique maritime benefits due to their ability to be launched in autonomous modes through weather w/o having to disengage from the BAMS mission in order to go low to paint the target for example.

But those are a few years away still for the platform. I'm not sure what the politics around the deal is honestly but we have heard everything from a Triton discussion to an Avenger discussion so I'll defer to a time when we actually have official word on the matter.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 23 Jun 2017 18:30

ShauryaT wrote:Did not mean to say the aircraft does not work for IN, just the unarmed part of it. I am presuming US is withholding armed versions of its fleet as the only reason and not a lack of interest on IN's part in those versions.

Yes, would be nice. Perhaps there is a reluctance to allow India have a UCAV capability or perhaps that would have been too big an initial step. Once these are in service it'll be far easier to persuade the export control powers-be in DC. All we need to do it sling a missile rail on Rustom-II, and the exporters will come scurrying.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 23 Jun 2017 18:57

JTull wrote: Yes, would be nice. Perhaps there is a reluctance to allow India have a UCAV capability or perhaps that would have been too big an initial step. Once these are in service it'll be far easier to persuade the export control powers-be in DC. All we need to do it sling a missile rail on Rustom-II, and the exporters will come scurrying.

It is exactly this third world, supremacist attitude that bothers me even more. The fact that GoI accepts them is sad. Even the Heron was unarmed citing MTCR as the reason then, now what?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 19:12

This assumes quite a bit. First that the IN is or was specifically interested in a custom maritime variant that was armed, and pursued but was denied this by not only the previous administration in DC, but the current one as well. Not sure that leaping from what may have been discussed during the Avenger 'news reports / rumors' to a maritime sea-guardian/guardian or sea-avenger all three of which are unarmed as designed is accurate. Again, wait for more detailed reports on configurations desired, approved etc.

This is being acquired as an MSUAS in a BAMS-Lite configuration. This isn't your stock special forces, or air force operated predator lobbing hellfires at enemy formations.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 23 Jun 2017 21:27

Weapons without cueing are like Pakistani Ghori missile that are "launched successfully" but no one has the faintest clue where they land.

ISR is more important than weapons capability that the guardian brings to the table. P-8 surveillance capability at a much lower Capex & Opex.

We've ample weapons platform - destroyers carrying 16 Brahmos/Uran, Frigates carrying 8 Brahmos/Klub, MiG-29K and Il-38 carrying Uran, P-8 & Jaguars carrying Harpoons, Type 209 with Harpoon and Type 877 with Klub.

It's the long range persistent ISR for accurate cueing that is getting fulfilled. The payload and endurance doesn't need to be encumbered with weapons, for which they are more than enough platforms.

Mate the range/endurance of Guardian with post MTCR longer ranged Brahmos and I hope people realise the force multiplier effect.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2017 21:32

and ASMs tend to be far heavier than hellfires and toufans. a predator would suffer a range & time penalty even with a 1.2ton of 2xUran load - precious time thats more important in the air.

this thing has neither the speed or shoulder to be carting around Urans let alone even brahmosM when it comes.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Jun 2017 21:40

In the maritime context the only weapons that are somewhat relevant in the BAMS like mission are the SDB-L , SDBII and in the future (if compatible) HAAWC that can be used in the littorals and the SDBII launched at altitude without having to disengage from the ISR mission in order to go paint a target.

Those are planned for Predator integration next decade, but the mission is not about maritime strike, it is about persistent ISR orbits covering a particular area of interest and plugging the ISR gaps within the sensor net when larger, manned aircraft are'nt available. There is a reason why the Triton isn't armed, or why GA hasn't really been asked to develop a maritime armed variant for any interested party.

They could probably provide a half decent load (for maritime mission) by removing the XMC SeaVue and going with a lighter Lynx (like Britain is doing) but then you are going with a less capable maritime RF sensor for the ISR mission. I don't think that would work for the IN. My guess is that they want a Triton_Lite configuration with a smaller ESM and Maritime Radar payload, LOS and NLOS data links and the MTS-B upfront. You need the larger radar for that mission and hence will eat into the 1700 kg total payload (sensor and weapon) available on the platform.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 23 Jun 2017 21:47

tsarkar wrote:
Mate the range/endurance of Guardian with post MTCR longer ranged Brahmos and I hope people realise the force multiplier effect.

If the US ever allows such mating of Russian weapons to its platform that would be the day. I guess you are referring to mating in a networking sense only.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 23 Jun 2017 23:07

I don't think tsarkar meant to arm the Predator/Guardian with Brahmos but to operationally link the ISR capabilities to cue other Brahmos capable IN platforms. Even Su-30 can carry only one Brahmos-A which can potentially be cued. Isn't Predator a much smaller platform?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 24 Jun 2017 00:07

Weapons aren't that important. Keeping an eye on Shipping lines and maintaining a real time vigil on maritime zones is far far more important for every day work. We can always deploy a MKI with requisite weapon and fuel tasking for the rainy day when you want to deliver payload.

3500 pounds of payload is pretty good. Every bit of unused payload should be used to carry more fuel and stay longer up there.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 24 Jun 2017 00:25

From Jane's coverage on the potential Guardian deal:

Speaking on condition of anonymity the sources said that the US Department of State sanctioned the sale of the multimission Guardian UAVs (a maritime variant of the Predator B ) on 21 June ahead of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's two-day visit to Washington starting on 25 June.

They said the UAV deal, which is likely to be officially announced when Modi meets US President Donald Trump on 26 June, also includes simulators, logistics, and training for IN personnel in the US.

Following price negotiations in March, India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) sent a letter of request (LOR) in June 2016 to the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), which manages all FMS programmes, for the procurement of the 22 UAVs.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 24 Jun 2017 02:52

^^ Yes, IN Ships and now retired harriers use the same datalink developed by the Israelis for Indian Phalcon that was also fitted to P-8I. Fitting of an Indian/Israeli datalink enabled us not use US datalink or communications and hence we didn't sign CISMOA. I speculate the same datalink would be fitted to Indian Guardian and used to cue long range Brahmos fired from ships. The high Mach speed will enable prompt response.

SDB et al too small for naval use. If used against Somali pirates, still more expensive than the Somali boat. 30 mm CRN-91 guns and 12.7 mm OFB Prahari / NSV more than enough for that.

In the realm of speculation, I would want a sonobuoy launching MAD equipped Guardian cueing DRDO ASROC under development. That would be a much cheaper riposte to Pakistani/Chinese submarines especially in the shallow waters off Pakistani coast. The missile could be launched from land off the Gujarat coast

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 24 Jun 2017 05:32

Indian Black Shark torpedo deal for Navy might be revived

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2017 07:11

ShauryaT wrote:Did not mean to say the aircraft does not work for IN, just the unarmed part of it. I am presuming US is withholding armed versions of its fleet as the only reason and not a lack of interest on IN's part in those versions.

It was reported (quoting from memory on BRF) that the Tu 142s had done 10,000 hours of flying and the P-8s 20,000 hours or some such figure. Never has a single depth charge, torpedo or missile been fired in all those hours of manned maritime patrolling. I doubt if the ability to carry missiles/bombs will be of utility given the role played by unmanned patrol aircraft.

We need to have that ability "just in case" is not an argument that I support.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Jun 2017 16:16

Just 10000 hours ?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 24 Jun 2017 17:38

Defense News has the GA CEO on record of confirming that the GOTUS has cleared the Guardian potential sale. Trump administration did not wait for official FMS notifications before announcing deals in the Saudi Case (AESA radar FMS announcement came a few weeks after the deals were announced) so it is quite likely that this would be announced during NAMOs visit .

“We are pleased that the U.S. government has cleared the way for the sale of the MQ-9B Guardian to the Indian Government,” said Linden Blue, CEO of General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, in a statement to Defense News.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/mq- ... -to-be-okd