Bharat Rakshak

Over 2,300 people killed in 300 US strikes in Pak

Islamabad: The United States' 'covert' drone war in Pakistan has reached a grim milestone with the 300th attack on alleged militants in South Waziristan Agency on Friday night, according to a research by a London-based not-for-profit organisation.

"Just before dawn on Saturday, CIA drones struck a housing compound in Angor Adda, South Waziristan. Up to six alleged militants died in the attack with at least three injured. The casualties were linked to local militant commander Maulvi Nazir. He is viewed as hostile by the US because of militant attacks inside Afghanistan, despite his having a long-standing peace deal with Pakistan," the Bureau of Investigative Journalism said.

It said it has now identified 300 drone strikes since June 17, 2004, of which, 248 have occurred during US President Barack Obama's three years in office, rising to a frequency of one strike every four days.

According to a detailed analysis of the attacks, at least 2,318 people have been killed in the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) campaign, the majority of them alleged militants

But among them, at least 386 civilians -- and as many as 775 -- have reportedly died, the Bureau's investigations show, including more than 170 children. And more than 1,100 people have been reported injured.

The CIA itself recently admitted to killing 2,050 people with its drones -- all but 50 of them combatants -- after the Bureau published its database in August.

Despite substantial evidence published by the Bureau of civilian deaths caused by its strikes, the US continues to claim that it has killed no 'non-combatants' in Pakistan since May 2010, the report said.

The Bureau said its data is drawn from reputable sources, including international news agencies and credible Pakistani media.

It is also cross-referenced where possible against leaked US intelligence documents and diplomatic cables; the writings of academics, politicians and former intelligence officials; pending legal cases; and some commissioned field work in Waziristan.

Time for another arrest or killing of a high ranking terrorist to put up a show of pakistan fighting terrorism
Hillary to visit Pakistan next week

Islamabad: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will visit Pakistan next week as part of a tour of Muslim countries deeply engaged by Washington, according to a news report attributed to diplomatic sources.

During the tour, Hillary is scheduled to hold talks with leaders of the National Transition Council (NTC) in Libya, and with the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan, The News quoted sources, as saying.

The US Secretary of State’s diplomatic sweep could possibly also include Iraq as well, the sources added.

Hillary is expected to arrive in Islamabad mid-week and stay for one day.

During the visit, she is scheduled to deliver what the sources described as an “Af-Pak policy statement” in an address to Pakistani defence and strategic affairs analysts.

The sources speculated that, as has often been the practice of the Obama administration, Hillary may also deliver a letter from US President Barack Obama to his Pakistani counterpart, Asif Ali Zardari.

Karachi teachers protest against Malik PhD degree

Karachi: Over 217 faculty members of the University of Karachi have signed a petition by the KU Teachers Guild (KUTG) in protest against the awarding of an honorary doctorate to Pakistan Interior Minister Rehman Malik.

Earlier this month, Malik was conferred with an honorary Doctorate degree by the KU in recognition of his “matchless services to the country in the war on terror and particularly in restoring peace to the citizens of Karachi”.

The guild’s chief and KU Teachers Society (KUTS) general secretary Dr Shakeel Farooqui said that they hoped to reach out to all teachers during their campaign.

“By signing the petition they have declared their resentment and have announced that awarding the degree to him [Malik] was an illegal act,” he said.

According to Farooqui, if a majority of the teachers signed the petition, they would be able to take back the degree from Malik.

The KU teachers’ society president Dr Abid Hasnain said that their executive council had condemned the decision in a meeting held on October 08 and it was important for the teachers to stick together in this situation.

“The conferring of the honorary degree was a covert and hasty action on the part of the varsity’s administration. Had they presented the proposal before the syndicate, it would have been rejected,” he said. “I believe that all teachers should protest and campaign against this.”

On the other hand, pro-vice chancellor Dr Shahana Urooj Kazmi said that the vice-chancellor had to do whatever the chancellor wanted.

The decision to award the honorary doctorate degree to Malik was initiated from the Governor House and the vice-chancellor had to follow through orders, The Express Tribune quoted Dr Kazmi, as saying.

According to Dr Kazmi, the degree cannot be taken back as it had been awarded by the chancellor.

However, the faculty has a right to protest and the KU syndicate will be told of the chancellor’s decision as a mere formality, she added.

Yippee, they're going to rip our sorry asses with even deadlier missiles!
How pathetic must a country be for its media to print articles about the potency of missiles that another country will be using shortly to kill its citizens on its sovereign territory? Pakis have lost all sense of self-worth. Hey Paklurks, I'm thinking of taking on some of you as slaves to take care of the dog and clean my toilets. I've got an advanced toilet brush!

Upendra wrote:
New List of Behead4Peace campaign
Kuldip Nayar
Dileep Padgaonkar
Harinder Baweja
Gautam Navlakha
Barkha Dutt
Arundhati Roy
Mahesh Bhatt
M K Bhadra Kumar

keep sending names of your favorite wkk's

Mani Shankar Aiyar

Airavat wrote:Syed Jammat Ali Shah, Pakistan commissioner of the Indus Basin Water Treaty Commission:

“We do not have a single international water expert in Pakistan. We always seek help from England or the US. We cannot negotiate with India unless we increase (mental?) capacity,” he said.

“How can anyone from our government talk about water as an economic resource with [Indian Prime Minsiter] Manmohan Singh? He has a PhD in economics; no one in our government does,” he said.

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/274344/india-pakistan-issues-forget-kashmir-terrorism-worry-about-water/

Now they do. That is why Krachi Univ decided to make it Dr. Rehman Malik. Maybe Mr. Dus Percenti and Groper Gilly should also be awarded a PeeChadi too.

Airavat wrote:Syed Jammat Ali Shah, Pakistan commissioner of the Indus Basin Water Treaty Commission:

“We do not have a single international water expert in Pakistan. We always seek help from England or the US. We cannot negotiate with India unless we increase (mental?) capacity,” he said.

“How can anyone from our government talk about water as an economic resource with [Indian Prime Minsiter] Manmohan Singh? He has a PhD in economics; no one in our government does,” he said.

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/274344/india-pakistan-issues-forget-kashmir-terrorism-worry-about-water/

Just a correction. He is not PPIC now.


http://tribune.com.pk/story/274477/paki ... al-issues/

Ijaz Ahmad Patafi, who worked earlier in Wapda, was deputed by the acting Commissioner Sheraz Memon to manage the workings of the PCIW despite Patafi being the junior-most officer in the commission, sources told The Express Tribune. In doing so, Memon bypassed the senior-most joint commissioner, they added.

Altair wrote:

shiv wrote:
Hence the effete "pinprick attacks" by unmanned ("womanned?"/chudiyan type) UAV attacks against two or three people at a time. I am guessing that one Predator mission against one Talibunny must cost at least a million daalahs.

Shiv
I think that US does not want to see beheading of US soldiers on camera. They simply do not want to see those images on youtube and broadcasted in US. The damage to morale and H&D would be much higher than million dollars. Even if he is not beheaded the ransom demand would be more than 10 times the average predator op. Its economics and H&D.
JMT
Altair

No argument with this thought. But it goes to show the uselessness of the American war machine against jihadis. That war machine will undoubtedly be able to beat the Paki armed forces to a pulp in short order. But that potential capability is totally useless because Pakistan will be left with only jihadis whom the US does not want to fight "on the ground" for reasons such as you have stated.

The USA seems to think that if they preserve and protect the Pakistani army, they can get away "cheap" by making the Paki army take on jihadis while they don't have to do much dirty work. That automatically assigns the Paki army a role for which the Pakistan army extracts a price from the USA. I have to admit that I am beginning to see why Pakis can have a kind of perverse pride in their army in the way that army has beaten the USA into a stalemate where the US has to depend on them and must pay them, or else..

We tend to have so much hate for Pakistan and so much faith in America on this forum that we think there is some "chankian" American ploy to GUBO Pakistan etc. but no such thing is happening. Just pinprick attacks on jihadis. The Paki army has been let off for harboring bin Laden, and the US is still thinking whether to stop arming Pakistan or not. This is tail wagging dog all right. Why laugh at Pakis if they say they can defeat the surperpower? We have superpower bhakts on here reassuring me that the superpower can take out the Pakis any time. Where? When? It's ain't happening and it ain't gonna happen.

shiv wrote:Why laugh at Pakis if they say they can defeat the surperpower? We have superpower bhakts on here reassuring me that the superpower can take out the Pakis any time. Where? When? It's ain't happening and it ain't gonna happen.

I agree. lets say today Hamid Gul comes out and declares that 9/11 was an ISI operation to teach the infidel a lesson, and will repeat again, what would happen?
Nothing. zilch. nada.
There would be debates on TV if what he is saying is true or not! After couple of weeks everyone will dismiss him as crazy.No one in US is going to bomb ISI headquarters. They simply do not have the will power to take on the real enemies with the military muscle they have. I know the trend is changing a bit but unless there is a very big event like a nuke going off, the status quo will remain.
Coming to Paki Military, US believes that it still needs them. Unless US is led to believe that Pakistani Army is just like Iraqi Army and needs to be disbanded, Pakistan will enjoy the largesse of the superpower. So, when would US arrive at the notion that Pakistani military needs to be disbanded like the Iraqi Army? Infact Iraqi Army was much more professional than Pakistani Army.So what gives/

Everything in the US is decided in terms of economy these days! The corporate lobby is too strong and more than anything else, the US wants to stick to its richest nation on earth tag, badly tarnished and in shambles. I would second Shiv in that, the US probably did an economic viability analysis. As long as it is cheaper for them to coax dummies into doing their own dirty job, like luring the Pakis with carrots or threatening them to act more, asking India to assume leadership role in South Asia/Afg, they would continue to be in their path of veiled threats/appeasement/carrots/strategy whichever works. The drone attacks and pressurizing Pakis is a lot cheaper than boots on ground/chances of the war escalating and losses and costs involved. They are desperate to move out of Afg with some sort of face saving victory, and go back to how to save their ruined economy. But the problem is they think they have been and are too clever and smart, all their tactics are foolproof, the fact that they can be outsmarted by the Pakis can't be easily digested by them, that's why all the blowup. But what do they plan to do about it, NOTHING! That option is always cheaper. A country which had credible intel of hideouts of top militant leaders, its difficult to assume that they don't have that for ISI/Paki involvement. The US/NATO soldiers have been killed regularly sometimes like animals, with all their might, they believe and can bomb the Pakis to stoneage, but they WON'T. Its cheaper you see. I believe the day they see that the war on terrorism loses its economic viability, they would put a fullstop to it and never use that word ever again!

Upendra wrote:

Tamang wrote: This blasphemy, how could you forget Arundhati Roy and Mahesh Bhatt.

New List . . .
Kuldip Nayar
Dileep Padgaonkar
Harinder Baweja
Gautam Navlakha
Barkha Dutt
Arundhati Roy
Mahesh Bhatt
M K Bhadra Kumar

keep sending names of your favorite wkk's

put some minimum thought into your posts. we are fantasizing about beheading people ? what's this ? pakistan ?
it's tasteless and uncivilized.

The circus called kafila.org, a maoist mouthpiece and twice born bhadralok communist paradise dreaming spot they all want to somehow, desperately want to give the land of the pure the cashmere sweater and every atrocity committed by it is okay other than if it's the Indian jawan, some anjana oops cant remember the name is also there, that calls for the breakup of India in which luminaries such as Navlakha contribute his friend Shivam Vij who would do anything including give up their life for the land of the pure. The mother of all wkk sites and where all the above names have a whale of a time! There is nothing called India or Indian and rakshaks must take them on and give them a hard time like what is done in pak tea house.
Avirook Sen? that lady journalist Jyoti Malhotra[toned down nowadays] among other notables? A linnaen moving table updated regularly is necessary of WKK's for detailed future studies and inventory keeping.
Burkha' thats not fair we want piss, na as a big bindi wearning jhola activist would remark as Burkha listened into get some khabar !
The disastrous consequences that are to be unleashed by allowing unfettered multiple entry long stay visas for the land of the pure need no nuclear physics to be explicated upon.

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... e-Railways

Awami Muslim League chief Sheikh Rashid Ahmed while saying that railways has not even diesel for one day, questioned what would happen if we have to send supplies to the borders in case of any emergency.
He added that Pakistan’s arch rival India has secured all the time 70 to 90 days additional oil stock for the army.

How will sheikh rashid know Indian armys strategic oil reserves? Indian strategic Petroleum reserve has caverns in both Mangalore and Vishakapattanam.and i think it will not exceed 15 days!? may be Im wrong.

I am somewhat baffled by the above post, as the picture *and* the article were from reputable sources with link provided. It was similar to Taliban visiting WH..this time, JS, as the report said, actually getting photographed with (and taking Mithai etc) to hijackers and their backers. (I do wonder, however, if instead of JS it was SM Krishna, would you have still rebuked me )

Since many posters have already replied, nothingm more to add...

Will continue scratching my head in a dark corner trying to understand the == between a pic of a president sitting with some people to help overthrow a 3rd country govt and the pic of a Foreign minister of a govt dealing with some hijackers who have 200 odd citizens under their gunpoint to help get them back home..

jaibhim wrote:The circus called kafila.org, a maoist mouthpiece and twice born bhadralok communist paradise dreaming spot they all want to somehow, desperately want to give the land of the pure the cashmere sweater and every atrocity committed by it is okay other than if it's the Indian jawan...Burkha' thats not fair we want piss, na as a big bindi wearning jhola activist would remark as Burkha listened into get some khabar...

Jinhe aitaraaz hai Hind par woh yahan hain....yahan hain, yahan hain, yahan hain....

Rahul M wrote:put some minimum thought into your posts. we are fantasizing about beheading people ? what's this ? pakistan ?
it's tasteless and uncivilized.

Kufr moderator bliss to read this

pgbhat wrote:CIA Birather Bruce Reidel : And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.

CRamS wrote:This naive BS stands apart from an otherwise reasonable article from Riedel. Does he really believe that the so called "Kashmir conflct" is about border control and prisoners?

Upendra wrote:Easing border controls will aid terrorists in easily crossing over , behead people and go back to pakistan to be honored as ghazis. This will help pakistan revive its flagging economy by spending less on the travel expenses of terrorists. This a worthwhile suggestion to consider. WKK's will enthusiastically volunteer for this exciting new beheading program. Of course for the sake of peace we have to make some sacrifice, so why not sacrifice the WKK? What do you say birathers? Shall we prepare a list of WKK volunteers to urge them to give peace a chance.

List of WKKs who should consider volunteering for Behead4Peace campaign
Kuldip Nayar
Dileep Padgaonkar
Harinder Baweja
Gautam Navlakha
Barkha Dutt

Please suggest more names of WKK's

menon s wrote:http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... e-Railways

Awami Muslim League chief Sheikh Rashid Ahmed while saying that railways has not even diesel for one day, questioned what would happen if we have to send supplies to the borders in case of any emergency.
He added that Pakistan’s arch rival India has secured all the time 70 to 90 days additional oil stock for the army.

trains are kufr technology, no need for them. pakistan has goats , these brave servants of mard-e-momin will carry pakarmy on their back to fight the kufr indian army. training exercises have already begun.

abhishek_sharma

>>In any case, people stopped defending B. Raman very soon.

Assuming that by "people" you meant me, since you linked to my post "something very weird is going on" - that was not intended as critical of B. Raman's article. I have no view on that. Like I said B. Raman has done a lot for the country, and he knows what he is doing. So in that sense it was not a "defence" of B. Raman that I'm attempting, rather moderating on BRF to prevent nonsensical and unfounded allegations being taken as fact and the forum being undermined by that.

If by "people" you did not mean me, please ignore the above post.

sum wrote:
Will continue scratching my head in a dark corner trying to understand the == between a pic of a president sitting with some people to help overthrow a 3rd country govt and the pic of a Foreign minister of a govt dealing with some hijackers who have 200 odd citizens under their gunpoint to help get them back home..

Tamasoma jyotirgamaya

Let me throw light into your dark corner

You are puzzled at the connection between US President Ronald Reagan sitting with Afghan Mujahideen in his living room comparing them with America's founding fathers and Indian Foreign minister Jaswant Singh seen hanging out with Afghan Mujahiddeen in Afghanistan where he exchanged three dangerous Pakistani Islamic Extremists for the lives of 200 Indians in a hijacked aircraft?

The connection is the greatness of the superpower USA that helped arm and fund the mujahiddeen who later won a magnificent victory for America in the cold war - making the evil empire, the Soviet Union run back to Siberia with its tail between its legs. Having failed to get the warm water Indian ocean port that they were allegedly seeking.Contrast that with the weakness of India where the Indian government had to beg and give up three terrorist prisoners to the Taliban who accepted them on behalf of Pakistan.It is the US that now controls all those warm water Indian ocean ports room where they will soon give freedom and democracy to Afghanistan and free trade to Central Asia. Those 4 CBGs in ths Indian Ocean are not there for show unlike our ADS.

Being a superpower means not being a weak kneed, spneless, lily livered, yellow bellied bunch. It should have been possible for India to threaten Pakistan like Armitage did and make the Pakis crap in their shalwars and then use bases on Pakistan to take out Afghanistan as the US did in a few weeks after 9-11.

That is how a superpower works. Not by weakness. By strength. India's terrorism problem continues because of India's weakness. We would do well to learn from the US that set the whole thing right in a matter of weeks. The US's military strength is unmatched. A free society that encourages merit and does not like to live in the past, seeing old ghosts and fighting old battles and clinging on to old friends. If India had been like America - the problem would have been solved decades ago. The way the US dominates pipsqueak Pakistan is something to marvel at. The US barks and the Pakistani dog jumps to attention and gives them what they want, and the US gives nothing in return. The US has never had to meekly give Pakistan anything. If anything it was given non meekly with great strength.

Now you can come out of your hole...

Jinhe aitaraaz hai Hind par woh yahan hain....yahan hain, yahan hain, yahan hain....


...Ab meri chand do baten sunen,kumvenpu rutha chinmaya antha ondu haadu helidaru, bendre aaavaga helidru, naanu idu heltini.. jo vatan par martehain aur jan bhi dete hain, har khwab me, haur daur me, har dam me , pal pal, niswarth dard letehain, desh ke bare me sochte hain, jo vatan prem ka shor sharaba nahi karte,bas deskh ki bhalayi bharatvarsh [aapko shayad yajur ved ka shlok yaad hoga [hum jaise log bachpan se sikhte hain wo zehen me hai khoon me hai] par kadr karte hain uhe to airtaraz to hoga hi
Kisse chilaye ki aao meri deskhbakti suno, kisse se munsafi mange,koi peeetha hai kya dhidhora ki maa aur janani se pyar nahi hai zalim ho jhoot bolega, chetana aur satya andar se aati hai who ataman ka hissa hota hai saheb,
Ise behter hai kar ke dikhaye baten to baten hi rah gayi, sab ka waqt ayega, sab ka mauka ayega zindagi me ahbi sikhne ka waqt hai , jo desh ke liya karna hai karlenge, zindagi bhi saakshat hai yeh choti hai haar aadmi keliye yam dev intezar karte hai zahil hai ki woh koi bhi ho, aur kya batyen rig veda ke pankti jo aatman ki khoj ke bare me bolti hai! sab ka expiry date nischit hai, tab tak har waqt desh ki pooja to humkarenge yogi jaise

Janani desh hai uar jyada uspar tippani karna to bewakoofi hai. Bhagat singh ko to koi certificate nahi mila, Netaji ko nahi chan logon ko diya gaya, aur kahi hai Khudiram bose, Balgandahar Tilak, baki jinhone maar khayi zandan ki diwaooron me mare gaye kutton ka maut mara bhi.



Now coming back Mr.Seldon, do you mean by that cryptic statement Mr.Seldon? Is that directed at individuals?
I hope it is not. In all my posts, I have pointed out and ridiculed these guys and lambasted their treachery and i believe commies are as dangerous as jihadis. I am much younger to you in age it would seem to me, in terms of experience on strategic studies and i do not have power to turn policy which you might well have. One can contribute what one sees. I must thank BR however, for giving directions to develop thought in that direction in terms of knowing what to look and what to look and finding discussions that talk of a great India. I can best play the role of whistle-blower.
A strong and powerful nation is every Indian's dream and finding ways to realise that and a visceral hatred for the land of the pure was one of the reasons trying to find like minded people. I don't think any desh-bhakt who will defend the country to the last breath, can function in such a scenario and it sometimes is best to be a silent spectator and that too by certificates on others being awarded with regard to patriotism and loyalty which is more than drawing room activism, based upon mere conjectures of people unknown and never encountered. Sorry for intruding into your freemasonic society, if you think i have it was done with idealistic intentions just like Netaji as a young person to serve India. I will not be deterred i will serve mother India
Karmanye vadhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachna
Karmaphalehtur bhurma te sangostvakarmani.

Jai Hind Vande Mataram

A B. Raman article:Many more Abbottabads waiting to be discovered in Pakistan
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2011/10 ... to-be.html
Find a coalition of the willing within Pakistan to root out terrorists....

upendra, I know quite well how that chain started, thank you. I had to intervene when it went from bad to worse. I stand by my comment. also, try not to do a BENIS-fication of this thread. post pictures with funny captions in BENIS.

Magoo is no match for Jaswant Singh...Jaswant was a true man..It was not his decision to escort the terrorists ..(or freedom fighters if someone might please ) Jaswant singhs little finger is more of a man than whole Khar-loving magoo..

Jaswant did a brilliant job as a finance minister..It is his policies than we saw the rapid growth of the previous decade (which the UPA claims as theres) ..ABV's government reduced public debt and fiscal deficit..the money saved by them was so mindlessly squandered by the Pakophilic geniuses of the NAC...


Reagen or muj hardly deserves credit for the Afghan war.. Soviets decided to leave in 86 itself... It was only later that the mythical "stinger missile" came...And it was hardly successful.. Soviet strikes devastated Afghan...

And dissolution of su or breaking of berlin war too has nothing to do with the success of real-politiks...the soviet economy had miserably failed due to its own faults... People in soviet colonies had to stand in line to get a loaf of bread...such an economy was hardly sustainable.. and had to break...

The americans claiming victory in cold war was similar to musharraf claiming tactical brilliance or paki claiming victory in 65 or 71...no wonder the Paki's have a special relation ship with the Americans ..
Birds of a feather flock together.. Howzzat for ==..

shiv wrote:

sum wrote:
Will continue scratching my head in a dark corner trying to understand the == between a pic of a president sitting with some people to help overthrow a 3rd country govt and the pic of a Foreign minister of a govt dealing with some hijackers who have 200 odd citizens under their gunpoint to help get them back home..

Tamasoma jyotirgamaya
..............
Now you can come out of your hole...

Will take some time to understand and digest all the gyaan given out in the single post full of pisskology...
Will be back when digested and target locked!!

sum wrote: Will take some time to understand and digest all the gyaan given out in the single post full of pisskology...
Will be back when digested and target locked!!

Look at this news item for instance
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=16035

Pak-based groups funding home-grown terrorists

Now Pakistan is a wealthy country, and is able to afford to pay for all sorts of things. They can afford sophisticated arms like F-16s, AMRAAMs, Huey helicopters and NVGs and they can afford to fund terrorists to attack India. India should do nothing to help the Pakistan army and ISI get money. In an ideal world, no one else should pay Pakistan either. The Chinese are against India and they help Pakistan.

Who else? Well the US too gives money to Pakistan, but the US is a superpower and will do things in its interest. Paying the Pakistan army is in its interest. Houses in Abbottabad cost money. As do AMRAAMs and WLRs. India should learn from America and do what America does to Pakistan. America may be paying Pakistan 3 billion a year but look at the wonderful results they get. Pakis snap up at attention and serve massa when the US snaps its fingers. India should be like America. But India should not pay money to Pakistan. India should be like America without paying jiziya. India paying Pakistan money is jiziya. US paying money to Pakistan is "superpower acting in its interest". Not jiziya. The latter is a sign of strength. the former is weakness.

Comprendez? Not to worry if you don't. I don't either.

shiv wrote:

sum wrote:
Will continue scratching my head in a dark corner trying to understand the == between a pic of a president sitting with some people to help overthrow a 3rd country govt and the pic of a Foreign minister of a govt dealing with some hijackers who have 200 odd citizens under their gunpoint to help get them back home..

...

The US barks and the Pakistani dog jumps to attention and gives them what they want, and the US gives nothing in return. The US has never had to meekly give Pakistan anything. If anything it was given non meekly with great strength.

Now you can come out of your hole...

sum-saar and Doc-saar, that bolded line above is the key!

The geniuses at Monty Python has a sketch for understanding that statement......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbPWt5yzDLE

If you have minstrels like US media (and some posters here), Sir Robin always remain brave. Anyone who says "nay" shall be outsung

The Quetta Shura are the the three headed creature who is discussing purity amongst themselves and is looking around for where Sir Robin went, feeling a bit cheated.

Such hue and cry was raised when PNS Babur saved Indian sailors from MV Suez and the whole media and the sailor's family members were all gung-ho about Govt./IN inaction and how PN was an angel in disguise. Their act of transgression and the fact that INS Godavari had reached there earlier was swiftly passed under the carpet and people were highlighting all peace with the Pakis. Makes me think what would have been the reaction if the GOI had acted tough on the hijackers or taken any other action?? The whole Govt. would be made to fall and people would vie for their blood I suppose!!! Whatever they did was the only option and was the best one, and came after many discussions and brainstormings! Btw the US also has opened its doors to peace talks with the Haqqanis who have the blood of so many US soldiers on their hands!

Altair wrote:

shiv wrote: Hence the effete "pinprick attacks" by unmanned ("womanned?"/chudiyan type) UAV attacks against two or three people at a time. I am guessing that one Predator mission against one Talibunny must cost at least a million daalahs.

Shiv
I think that US does not want to see beheading of US soldiers on camera. They simply do not want to see those images on youtube and broadcasted in US. The damage to morale and H&D would be much higher than million dollars. Even if he is not beheaded the ransom demand would be more than 10 times the average predator op. Its economics and H&D.
JMT
Altair

There are two ways to defeat the enemy.

1. Invade the nation, kill the enemy and occupy the lands and rule the defeated nation.

2. Kill the enemy leadership and keep doing it until the local leadership and population submits. Trade can be built to ensure the total domination (in governance, policy, and economy) later.

Massa is going with strategy 2 as it is cheaper than strategy 1. Iraq war cost ~$1T. At $1M per attack USA can organize 1 million predator attacks in Pakistan with $1T budget while not losing a single US life.

At 2 pigs per attack, Pakistan will be have 2 million less jihadis and jihadi leaders. That is more than TSPA + ISI + Good Taliban.

Self deleted

Shiv wrote: You are puzzled at the connection between US President Ronald Reagan sitting with Afghan Mujahideen in his living room comparing them with America's founding fathers and Indian Foreign minister Jaswant Singh seen hanging out with Afghan Mujahiddeen in Afghanistan where he exchanged three dangerous Pakistani Islamic Extremists for the lives of 200 Indians in a hijacked aircraft?
The connection is the greatness of the superpower USA that helped arm and fund the mujahiddeen who later won a magnificent victory for America in the cold war - making the evil empire, the Soviet Union run back to Siberia with its tail between its legs. Having failed to get the warm water Indian ocean port that they were allegedly seeking.Contrast that with the weakness of India where the Indian government had to beg and give up three terrorist prisoners to the Taliban who accepted them on behalf of Pakistan.It is the US that now controls all those warm water Indian ocean ports room where they will soon give freedom and democracy to Afghanistan and free trade to Central Asia. Those 4 CBGs in ths Indian Ocean are not there for show unlike our ADS.

a different perspective. After 20 years of their great history, those very forces that they created pulled US into a $T war.

After 10 years of that submission to Taliban, India signed a strategic partnership treat with Afghanistan.now it is unto India if it want to avenge the events of 2000.

Upendra wrote:[this

pgbhat wrote:CIA Birather Bruce Reidel : And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.

CRamS wrote:This naive BS stands apart from an otherwise reasonable article from Riedel. Does he really believe that the so called "Kashmir conflct" is about border control and prisoners?

Forget about Kashmir,I think Pakunkstan will easily settle the dispute if USA offer Kalifornia to them. Plus this will make the only true allie come close to remove any doubt. Bruce Reidel can be US Consel general in in this neighboring State of Poakanistaniat. Thie new territiory can be renamed Kiyanifornia and SMF as Sucker-me-into-bad.

Reagen or muj hardly deserves credit for the Afghan war.. Soviets decided to leave in 86 itself... It was only later that the mythical "stinger missile" came...And it was hardly successful.. Soviet strikes devastated Afghan...

Won't go in the specifics for the above, but your direction is right. Too many people are awed thinking that real politik drive what happens around us. People tend to underestimate how events have their own momentum pushing decision making and leaders or nations up and down the ladder of greatness. These imperatives again are derived from core value systems, ideologies and doctrines though in the actual theater of conflict, exceptions and alliances based on them are quite the norm. The ability of a great civilization/ nation/ empire is the ability to understand that. Those who don't stand for something, fall for just about anything. The impulse to jump the quick bandwagon to making use of exceptions to further the rule, without a sustained attempt to solidify the core value and alliances that stand by your value system is fraught with danger for the very people one professes to lead are confused by what the Nation stands for, leading to an inevitable cacophony of interests and thus jeopardizing the value systems one wants really to stand for. India's weakness is seen in that light of failing to lead and must not be dismissed. Everyone is cqpable of seeing things through the prism of truth, everyone is also capable of distorting the perspective when seeing things through the prism of real politik.

It' the Paki RAPE that play real politik which everyone here is familiar and much too aware a failing game. Real Politik in Afghanistan which stands daily exposed even in an otherwise sympathetic West. OTOH The Taliban, AQ don't play real politik. They play up exactly what they believe in, however grotesque. There is nothing 2 faced about the Taliban honestly. They don't want women to be educated, or men too for that matter. They want beards and chopping hands and legs and a complete literal interpretation of the 7th century manifesto. India or for that matter any country will have difficulty dealing with a 2 faced hypocritical entity playing real politik, than a straight up Talib type entity in power in Pakistan. I think many have exposed this aspect quite well here.

^^
California for Pakistanis to solve nuke flash point of the world. Bring Pakis home, end GWOT.

shiv wrote:That is how a superpower works. Not by weakness. .....
.....The US has never had to meekly give Pakistan anything. If anything it was given non meekly with great strength.

Hakim F Paracha garu, that was simply awesome.

^^^
I look at Jaswant Singh's eyes and I see fear. He is genuinely terrified for himself and the people involved in that situation. Yet he still went, because it was his duty. There was courage demonstrated there that all these massaland worshipers won't understand. This is a consequence of the region of the world we live in. We don't get to walk away, or take time outs or speculate airy-fairy unfair thoughts or even tune it out. The missiles, both human & nuclear are aimed directly at our hearts and this is something no one who lives in massaland long term can understand either.

India, all cowardly, refusing to spoil for a fight, gets pushed around, is not a real nation, has no balls, etc around to the massaland crowd on this board. Courage is easy when you call NPR to complain about TSP. When it is your children and family in the crossfire courage is for fools. No one in India wants a situation where we are at war with TSP. No matter the provocation.

As Monty Python says..

He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways.. Brave Sir Robin...

...When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.

Brave Sir Robin...

shiv ji, others - You are quite correct in equating Indian folding over in face of terrorism born in the paki with the US bending over to accomodate the same, other than, in absolute $$ terms, the US pays a lot more (maybe not in PPP terms, then India maybe pays the same amount). But then, while there may be an eqeq between India and the US, there is none between the paki and the US, any more than there is between India and the paki. As I follow the dumb US policies towards the paki streaming out of Dawshington WeSee, so also, at least once a week, I get over to the NASA & other sci, arts, tech. web sites and check out, among other things, the breath taking images straming in from the moons and the planets to appreaciate what the US does so well. No, there is no eqeq between the US and the paki, anymore than there is between the paki and India, and indeed, India, in its own modest way contributes just as well to expanding knowledge as the US does. Let us not get confused on who is on the side of expanding human knowledge and civilization here.

Another perspective one has to factor in when talking to Pakistan is the growing bacteria in the bottle scenario. Paki decadal growth rate is around 25%. Now imagine bacteria inside a bottle doubling every second and filling the bottle up in 60 seconds. At the 58th second the bottle is just 1/4th full. A complacency amongst the 'bacteria' oh the bottle is 3/4th empty..plenty space. 59th second it's half full..and yes half empty. After 60th there's no place to grow..one has to eat another to survive.

For sustainable development, Paki's have no place for growth now. They are past the 59th second figuratively. 300 million Paki's are projected by 2050! There's no place really, not enough water or food to sustain that many there. Pakis are neither the bacteria in a bottle with no place to move out..they will seek to expand, collaborate with bacteria elsewhere..set up expansion zones. I think the Paki RAPE know this aspect much better than most Indian WKK type page 3 socialites. Thinking solutions in a status quo'ist mould of things won't help finding clues to solving the Paki problem either. Imagine when the IWT was made..Paki's were just 30 million. India itself has added in the last decade what the world population was in 1300. IF one takes decadal growth of Muslims in the subcontinent is outstripping anything we've witnessed in scale before.

We may not be on the 59th second for the bacteria in the bottle, but solutions just don't develop in the 57th or 58th second also. For India control of river water systems originating in the Tibetan plateau the Kailash Mansarover regions is a must. For that India must start to derecognize China's claim on Tibet and openly declaring it's legacy on Kailash Mansarover region. We don't stand a chance 100 years from now if we don't do that for starters now.

abhishek_sharma wrote:

Nandu wrote:ramana, that poster of Reagan is simply wrong.

As I said before, without knowing the identity of those people, how can you call them terrorists? And the associated quote by Reagan was definitely not made regarding anybody in Afghanistan (it was about Nicaraguan contras).

I am just correcting misinformation posted in this thread. If you consider this off topic, then so should the original picture be.

It is easy to find at least two sources:

From The Atlantic

Ronald Reagan, welcoming Afghan mujahideen to the White House in 1985, referred to his guests as "the moral equivalent of America's Founding Fathers."

And this is from a book link

The myth has been circulating on the internet for a long ime, especially after 2001-9-11, so it is not surprising that it would show up in a few places like a monthly or a book, but that doesn't make them "sources".

A real source would be a newspaper report from 1985 itself. But here is an even better source. Reagan was PotUS, and all his speeches during his presidency are recorded. Here is the "moral equivalency" speech.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=38274


Af for the the turbaned people who we see with Reagan in that pic, all I said is, we don't know their identities, and in particular whether they can be considered forerunners of the Taliban, as opposed to being forerunners of our allies, the Northern Alliance.

If they rated a WH visit, they can't be unknowns, so why not figure out who they are before running with an internet myth?

And to bring this back on topic for this thread, I want to point out that this pic, and that quote, are used by CT minded Pakis (which is most of them) as proof that American is duplicitous in using them like a condom and discarding them.

Nandu wrote: The myth has been circulating on the internet for a long ime, especially after 2001-9-11, so it is not surprising that it would show up in a few places like a monthly or a book, but that doesn't make them "sources".

Maybe. If "books" and "reports" print and publish "myths", then I don't have much to say. Since you are the self-appointed arbiter for separating wheat from chaff, maybe you should start a thread and we will religiously read it.

Nandu wrote: A real source would be a newspaper report from 1985 itself. But here is an even better source. Reagan was PotUS, and all his speeches during his presidency are recorded. Here is the "moral equivalency" speech.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=38274

So? Each word spoken by him is recorded there? And how many newspapers had an online version in 1985?

The link posted by you is not "the" moral equivalency speech. Why do you believe that he used the phrase just once?

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index ... z1ayuplBHS

To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand-held weapons is an inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson—that there are things in this world worth defending.

Yes, it is. Did you actually read it, because he also refers to the Afghan resistance in it.

I have not found the identities of the people in that photo, though if people want to do further research, here is a video of it, which might be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3f9mlUQzJA

In the speech I linked above, notice that Reagan refers to one Afghan resistance fighter by name and says, "Abdul Haq, we are with you".

Here is how Abdul Haq died: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2001/oct ... fghanistan

shravan, the claim was about that particular quote. It is not in dispute that Reagan actually supported the Afghan mujahideen.

harbans wrote:For sustainable development, Paki's have no place for growth now. They are past the 59th second figuratively. 300 million Paki's are projected by 2050! There's no place really, not enough water or food to sustain that many there. . Imagine when the IWT was made..Paki's were just 30 million. India itself has added in the last decade what the world population was in 1300. IF one takes decadal growth of Muslims in the subcontinent is outstripping anything we've witnessed in scale before.

Afghans disinfecting Poak Bacteria will make sure they eat each others in Poakbottle . Btw, Poaks are gonna be 385Million by 2050 unless they go on Purifying spree to clean the polluted ones among them to reduce their Nafri. Statistically ,They will suffocate before they die with thirst.By 2020 , their 3.5 Maassas will have to dole out 40-50Billion a year and then double of this amount by 2035 thus becoming the most expensive Bichon Frise in the whole world.