Indian Autos Thread

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 14 Aug 2010 21:06

Shukran Manish saab

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Aug 2010 21:24

if you plan to use it as a hunting/adventure vehicle with the boys then anything will do. if intended as a family vehicle, might solicit reactions from the other 'stakeholders' in the family about that comfort level and looks they like.

women, unless they have been brought up in the army or in plantations/remote townships tend to dislike "jeep" type rugged but unpolished vehicles.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 15 Aug 2010 18:19

Any news on the Nano? how is it going? has it outcompeeted the Alto?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Aug 2010 18:38

tala sold 9000 nano in july
alto sold 27000

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... cture1.jpg

Ford figo seems to be a hit. unlike the smaller chevy beat or nissan micra it can attract family buyers too..styling is not too funky. plus it has diesel and said to handle well....on par sales figures with i20 quickly.

MSIL continues to take in $$ via swift and dzire.

vina · Post by **vina** » 15 Aug 2010 20:54

Drove the Maruti 800 (the latest one before it was taken off from Bangalore, my uncle wanted a city run about, but could not get a Nano in the lottery) after all these years of driving higher spec cars.

Now the moment you step in , it feels like a 1980s crap that it is. Right from the seats to the engine to the gearshift to drive.. You name it. No wonder Maruti quietly buried it the moment a modern upto date alternate in the shape of Nano showed up. It will be too expensive to build a replacement for the 800 that can sell at those kind of costs and be upto date as well.

Think of it, if the M800 feels crap now, just imagine how it would be if you had to go back and drive an Amby or a Premier that we learned driving in back in the old days.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 16 Aug 2010 02:59

I doubt any car beats Amby in the back seat space and seat comfort.
i recall from old days only. Have always liked it

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 16 Aug 2010 03:45

AdityaM wrote:I doubt any car beats Amby in the back seat space and seat comfort.
i recall from old days only. Have always liked it

Compleetly agreee. A terrible car in most respects, but the sofa like comfort, beats anything on Indias roads.
I always request for the good old amby, when ever taking a long disstance taxi.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 16 Aug 2010 03:50

Singha wrote:tala sold 9000 nano in july
alto sold 27000

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... cture1.jpg

Ford figo seems to be a hit. unlike the smaller chevy beat or nissan micra it can attract family buyers too..styling is not too funky. plus it has diesel and said to handle well....on par sales figures with i20 quickly.

MSIL continues to take in $$ via swift and dzire.

I am a bit surprised that alto still has such a larger market share, compared to Nano. Can it be because of production limitations?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Aug 2010 10:05

probably a mix of production still ramping up and some people dont like the rear mounted engine and 'auto rickshaw sound' of nano. the alto looks and feels like a 'proper car' and there's probably a ton of them on 2nd hand market left behind by people who upgraded. I saw a nano being driven at extreme speed on the blr mysore road recently...

the Amby rear seat while being comfortable doesnt have much leg space compared to same sized cars like civic. ofcourse the Amby will go on roads that will kill a civic in 5 mins.
ideal for political netas in hinterland and isolated govt offices, but perhaps they have already moved on to Innovas and Scorpios.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 16 Aug 2010 10:09

saar, the extra comfort in civic costs you about 7 lakhs extra.
ofcourse you cant compare these 2 cars! generations apart
But i used to like the amby seats which have a spring like feel

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 16 Aug 2010 10:40

IMO the Tatas should target the autorickshaw segment with laser focus. Create a new segment called the 'mini-taxi' or some such that includes autos and sell Nanos to them like crazy. Offer half-decent financing schemes and see the difference.

Nanos are cheaper, cleaner and better than autos in soo many ways. A luggage carrier on top should take care of the samaan requirement too. If even half the autos in the country can be converted to nano in the next 5 yrs, our city roads will become so much more bearable and drivable only.

manish · Post by **manish** » 16 Aug 2010 11:27

Hari Seldon wrote:IMO the Tatas should target the autorickshaw segment with laser focus. Create a new segment called the 'mini-taxi' or some such that includes autos and sell Nanos to them like crazy. Offer half-decent financing schemes and see the difference.

Nanos are cheaper, cleaner and better than autos in soo many ways. A luggage carrier on top should take care of the samaan requirement too. If even half the autos in the country can be converted to nano in the next 5 yrs, our city roads will become so much more bearable and drivable only.

Its being done. But with the Magic Iris.

Recently in BLR, a mere hint from a minister about replacing autos with Nanos met with such venom from the autowallahs that the guy had to downhill ski immediately. Not an easy thing to bring about.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 16 Aug 2010 11:40

Hari Seldon wrote:If even half the autos in the country can be converted to nano in the next 5 yrs, our city roads will become so much more bearable and drivable only.

It is not just the autos. The key for a better traffic is to have vehicles moving in more or less the same speed with less variability.

It is the variability that kills the Indian traffic...pedestrians, animals, bicycles, gearless 50cc, 100 cc, bigger bikes, small cars, big cars, small trucks, big trucks, buses....ALL sharing the road and running thru the same system. Its going to be a long haul to improve traffic...everybody becoming rich enough to get vehicles that travel at more or less same speed (or becoming a 'dictatorship' in restricting road access).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Aug 2010 11:56

the amby seat is a sofa, with sofa type grid of springs below it. dont think 'modern' cars have that
kind of springy seat anymore.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 16 Aug 2010 13:32

Amby needs the springy back seat, because of the leaf spring suspension

I consider the "legendary rear seat comfort" is Bullshit, in the same range of statements like "PAF is the best airforce in the world"

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 16 Aug 2010 13:45

is it not?

wait till you read what chuck-the-beaver said about Ghazi-Albarbadi-e-hawaiJahazi

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 16 Aug 2010 16:30

I second Dileep.

If apet lal and a Seth lal sit the sofa spings into action and sink. Otherwise you slide, that has been my experience as a child riding MES Ambys with Smiths, England instrumentation cluster, with a turn signal right on top of the horn button and Hand gears attached to the steering column.

Actually Super 10 and Super 8, Hillman, Woolsely were better cars.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Aug 2010 21:30

has anyone of you ridden in the 3 wheeler Badal that was sold here in early 1980s ? it was a old english car that someone tried here.
the contessa seemed like a decent enough car for that era, with bucket seats in front and floor gearstick.

manish · Post by **manish** » 17 Aug 2010 09:18

Singha wrote:has anyone of you ridden in the 3 wheeler Badal that was sold here in early 1980s ? it was a old english car that someone tried here.
the contessa seemed like a decent enough car for that era, with bucket seats in front and floor gearstick.

It was a license built Opel/Vauxhall Victor from the 1970s. Still a massive step up from the Amby. The White Contessa was the quintessential politico-mobile in the pre-1991 era!

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 18 Aug 2010 21:20

Volkswagen, Suzuki India Customers Wait on Auto-Parts Shortage

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-1 ... parts.html

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 18 Aug 2010 21:46

Both the Contessa Classic and Ambassador (1800 ISZ) were excellent cars from backseat point of view. Practically grew up in them.

The Contessa had a retro look which is very similar to the Dodge Challenger of today. With the Isuzu engine, it was a really fun car. Actually, even the 1800 NE was not that bad.

All compared to ubiquitous MSIL 800/1000/Esteem of the 90s, of course.

Guess this car:

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 18 Aug 2010 22:22

^^
Neat

The pic name gives it away.. Looks really nice.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 19 Aug 2010 01:38

Enclosed 2-wheeler motorcycles are able to provide better protection from the elements and road accidents, while also offering good fuel economy:

Why can't the use of such vehicles take off in India with local manufacturing?

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 19 Aug 2010 04:58

I guess most people want to just blend in the traffic and not appear to have descended from the future.

Seriously though, I don't think it offers nearly as much comfort as a Car, doesn't allow people to sit next to each other and may make you feel claustrophobic. Indian giants are coming up with our own solution to the problem (affordability, comfort, safety, status) with solutions such as TATA Nano.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Aug 2010 08:20

you'd lose the biggest advantage of bikes, which is disregard all laws and squeeze through gaps, slink into the footpaths and so on...

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 19 Aug 2010 08:47

Checked the first video...damned thing costs 50,000 pounds!
Well whatever...some folks just want to waste bandwidth

Singha wrote:you'd lose the biggest advantage of bikes, which is disregard all laws and squeeze through gaps, slink into the footpaths and so on...

niran · Post by **niran** » 19 Aug 2010 09:15

Manu wrote: The Contessa had a retro look which is very similar to the Dodge Challenger of today. With the Isuzu engine, it was a really fun car. Actually, even the 1800 NE was not that bad.

All compared to ubiquitous MSIL 800/1000/Esteem of the 90s, of course.

real fun indeed, particularly when the contessa heart sinking braking distance is considered
one practically had to stand on the brake pedal, and the car would just move on and on, mucho fun, i totally absolutely agree.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 19 Aug 2010 09:24

^ Never driven a car with failed brakes?
Its fun, especially if its raining

ShivaS · Post by **ShivaS** » 19 Aug 2010 10:33

Yes I have that experience in two ways.

Once in 1977 My Priya scooter (maharashtra scooters clone of Baja) brake cable that runs from foot pedal to rear drum failed, in my wisdom as budding Mech Engineer I disabled (or nealy by slackening the cable to front brake drum to aviod shifting of CG to front during motion if some one like a kid standing in front presses it for fun).

This happened in front of Golden bakery near sec bad station, that was first time I felt my scooter was its best and smooth because there was no of stopping except puting in 1st gear and cearting a loud noise als pressing the short circuit NC (normally closed) switch which shuts off the engine while I try to hit the kerb aka footpath. That was terrifying exhilarating like the first Time I did ...... ( leave it to you imagination)

Second time I was driving Plymouth Voyager (1994 Model 3.0 lit V6 Mitsibushi engine) after dealer perfomed tune up and brake service.
The idiot for some reason did not check the hydraulic pressure going to the back wheel cylinders (front were disc brakes) on the (rear right wheel) the pressure was higher or the brake band was not adjusted. I was driving to Pittsburg SV temple with my family in the van, I was on Interstate I 80/90 great high way, I was doing consistantly 75 80 MPH, I started feeling burning smell and when I applied brakes to slow on suspecting a cop car the vehicle would attempt to turn to the right...
SO I got down at the next service plaza and just like the steam engine drivers(used to) do I wanted to feel the heat on the hub cap boy I was in for rude shock my Hand was instantaneously grilled like beans on grill.

Ever since I do my brakes tune up and even SHQ TRUSTS ME WITH HER RX 350 brake job.

Trust but verify is the SOP when ever you give yourvehicle for service be it in US or India even with the dealer or otherwise. Period.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Aug 2010 11:29

MSIL has introduced a AT version of Alto now to compete and undercut the i10-AT . mostly these are cars that people buy on r2i for their wives who learnt driving abroad so pricing it cheap does have an attraction since the man will be getting himself a bigger car.

niran · Post by **niran** » 19 Aug 2010 11:41

Folks, i meant the breaking distance for a normally working brakes,
not for the failed systems, we had this saying, in conti, if you need to stop
in Dilli, please start breaking from Lucknow, or else you will reach Amritsar before it stops.
the conti had front disk brakes(first in India AFAIK) and rear drum. both the Amby and Conti
needed maintenance work 2 day out of a week, and i ain't talking about the Elephant power
it need to turn the steering wheel, or the ability to launch you in orbit by clutch/brake pedal,
if you are not careful.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 20 Aug 2010 09:06

Singha wrote:you'd lose the biggest advantage of bikes, which is disregard all laws and squeeze through gaps, slink into the footpaths and so on...

That's how you reach the office in half the time it takes you if you go by car

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Aug 2010 09:57

I was thinking about it today - BLR bikers must be the top 1% performers in all their offices, looking at how desperate they are to reach work early as possible

but I have seen children and old people railroaded off small footpaths by these outlaw bikers. best medicine is post a constable in a hidden place
and SWAT these folks with a danda no questions asked.

manish · Post by **manish** » 20 Aug 2010 10:13

Singha wrote:I was thinking about it today - BLR bikers must be the top 1% performers in all their offices, looking at how desperate they are to reach work early as possible

but I have seen children and old people railroaded off small footpaths by these outlaw bikers. best medicine is post a constable in a hidden place
and SWAT these folks with a danda no questions asked.

This used to happen on some bike-heavy stretches prone to footpath riding. I distinctly remember constables/traffic cops on BTM 16th Main (the main BTM Layout rd leading to Central Silk Board Jn) catching bikers riding on footpath during peak hours. Bikes used to take off in all possible directions to skip hop and jump into the gazillion bylanes present and escape from the main road. It was complete chaos.

That particular stretch was therefore a nightmare. Have they built some sort of underpass/flyover at Udupi Gardens/Advait Petrol Pump since then?

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Aug 2010 10:21

Singha wrote:I was thinking about it today - BLR bikers must be the top 1% performers in all their offices, looking at how desperate they are to reach work early as possible

but I have seen children and old people railroaded off small footpaths by these outlaw bikers. best medicine is post a constable in a hidden place
and SWAT these folks with a danda no questions asked.

Plainclothes bolis used to be present on many such areas with video-cams video graphing the licence plate when riding on footpath or taking U-turns in wrong places. Wonder if still continues?

Some bikers actually used to think they were being covered by some local TV channel etc and used to proudly strut their stuff right in front of the camera!!!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 20 Aug 2010 10:43

sum wrote:Plainclothes bolis used to be present on many such areas with video-cams video graphing the licence plate when riding on footpath or taking U-turns in wrong places. Wonder if still continues?

In Bengaluru this videography stuff may not work out well. Because there are large number of out-side the state vehicles. No point in videographing these number plates as it would be very tough to get the riders to appear in courts. And with KA registration plates also, there are chances that the riders have changed their residences multiple times. The summons would go no where.

Best would be, pull out the rider and giving him a few twacks (IT-Vity folks should get two rounds extra) and an on-the-spot fine. Only the loss of Ech&Dee makes these folks behave.

manish · Post by **manish** » 20 Aug 2010 10:56

Sachin wrote:
Best would be, pull out the rider and giving him a few twacks (IT-Vity folks should get two rounds extra) and an on-the-spot fine. Only the loss of Ech&Dee makes these folks behave.

IIRC They used to snatch and seize licenses on the spot for footpath riding. So this went beyond H&D loss.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Aug 2010 12:23

I agree 300% with Sachin, people change residence and dont update the rto. a few quick danda thwacks on the spot is best medicine. one citizen volunteer traffic marshal in front of forum made a errant biker catch his ears and do situps right in front of the mall (something he was not legally empowered to do). some newspapers carried that photo. cane the rascals and seize their bikes for 10,000 fine.

they are planning a new road from BTM ring road to Hosur road to bypass the silk board jn.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 20 Aug 2010 15:17

Recently had a trip to Shimla from Delhi on Himachal RTC after an online booking for their Volvo bus. Having travelled regularly on this leg, I was happy with the overnight schedule with arrival at Shimla early morning.

But I had a surprise in waiting, when I found that the Volvo had given way for an Isuzu rear engined bus which is just an apology for the comfort which a Volvo delivers. The noise, vibration and comfort levels were pathetic so much so that I felt I was travelling by a front engined Tata bus (which incidentally, HRTC operates separately) and what's worse, they charge the Isuzu the same as that for a Volvo.

The size of this Isuzu vehicle is ~ 30% less than a Volvo and hence the seating arrangement too has to compromise on the leg room and width (seating of 40 for Isuzu vs 55 for Volvo). I had to sleep through with my leg perched sideways at an angle. Altogether, a sad state of affairs.

It is not that HRTC was running the Volvos without hassles. Check- HRTC told to pay compensation

The only silver lining was that owing to its smaller size, the Isuzu could negotiate the sharp bends on the ghat roads better.

During the trip I had a friendly talk with the conductor and he said that 2 buses had been given by Swaraj Mazda (?) to HRTC for a trial period of 2 months and since then, 2 more have been bought.

But, I hope that state RTCs take the views of the traveller into account and do not give up on Volvos or at least bring in some vehicle equivalent to it.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 20 Aug 2010 17:19

One big issue with Volvo service by HRTC has been that it was outsourced to private contractors - and as usual, they did not take any care of the bus and interiors. The ones run by HRTC themselves were much better.

PS: It is good that the Dharamshala-Delhi srvice is a night bus. I don't know how many peopl (from plains) can survive the exp. of their bus negotiating the road and curves. It is real scary at times - especially as the fron tyres are set quite behind the driver's location and at times it seems the bus is going over the bend - and finally, you see the body of the bus turn away. The fact that Volvo has a huge front screen and passengers (at least the aisle ones) can really see all the way out - does not help the matters.