Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

[JE Menon]

>>The way I see it they screwed us for ~200 years , so we should screw angrezi for eternity.

Negi, mate, I fully agree. I think that is what we are almost certainly going to do. We have to seize the language, how else are we going to molest it the way we are doing? (Actually I'm not sure from your comment whether you are agreeing or not ) Going by general flow, I thought you were disagreeing, but if I'm wrong, you're right.

>>But that should go hand in hand with due attention to the mother tongues, as well as the cultivation and grooming of Sanskrit as successor pan-Indic panguage.

Carl, absoeffinglutely. The thing is, nowhere have I, or anyone else on BRF for that matter, ever suggested that we should not give due attention to the mother tongues, at any time I think - In fact, I would say at this juncture we need to give more than due attention; this should be given bloody emergency status - especially in regard to Sanskrit.

Will respond to the rest later, maybe tonite guys. Not in a well connected location, and will need about 8-10 hours to find some joy in terms of decent wifi.

[brihaspati]

Its funny that WB gov's attempt at promoting mother-tongue at the expense of English comes up repeatedly as some great proof of English-hatred repeatedly on this thread completelyt ignoring the ground reality of commie party's action even when pointed out on this thread. Many of the commie party's own leadership/aantel's kids continued to be trained in pucca English medium schools and the commie party's constitution, party programme continued to be published in English too. At least one big boss was a regular at a well-known Angrezi-raj-aamal club hallowed for refusing a certain doyen of secularism (for being targeted by yeevil yindoo fundamentalists for onlee drawing nude Hindu goddesses and sparing other religions) for not being pucca English==bhadralok dress code.

I guess the tactic is to ignore uncomfortable points. The commie gov's push was totally insincere, and many schools continued biz as usual.

Not "unfortunately", but very fortunately - the symptom on BRF has been identified. This clamour for turning
"abusing the brits as a means to achieve 'self-respect' for Indians (a 'let them eat cake' type of solution IMO)" -into a "actually an NRI problem being represented as an 'Indian' problem"" - is actually a RNI problem. Prof. Mrs Romila Thapar perhaps had a good insight into her own "class" - when she was mocking the NRI's for suffering from a "deep anxiety resulting from distance from homeland". She did not realize that she was providing a perfect description of the class of India-born's who suffer from a "deep anxiety resulting from distance and separation from their perceived homeland" - the hallowed shores of Albion. This makes them identify themselves with everything British, and feel their dignity has been attacked and hurt because aspects of British identity, past records, and language has been criticized or looked down upon or not worshipped.

I guess the claim that "many NRIs come into contact with brits and are often unable to talk about these things face to face, hence need a place to vent spleen in a place which offers them comfortable anonymity" comes out of direct personal experience of feeling an overhelming urge to fawn and melt on sight of a Brit? Such uncanny description can only come from first hand encounters. I am impressed.

Finally - yes, the perception that "If it was Nehru who foisted english on India - many here should be thanking him on their bended knees instead of abusing him - because this regional language focus has been tried in India and Pakistan (before it became bakistan)" is also a perfect and honest expression of the same class as Prof. Thapar's, and I applaud it - for the fundamnetal character is all about "bending knees" to lords and prabhu's. It does not matter who the lord is - bending knees is the fundamnetal trait - and a demand that everyone else copies the behaviour of abject courtiership.

[arnab]

I guess the tactic is to ignore uncomfortable points. The commie gov's push was totally insincere, and many schools continued biz as usual..

umm - are you claiming that WB govt / semi-autonomous schools continued to teach in english even though the WB govt. banned it? The fact that commies themselves did nothing to root out english from their own lives despite 'acting' publicly against it (much like BRF forumites ) is besides the point. The fact is that they tried to remove english at the 'grass root' level - much to the disadvantage of the students, may I add.

I guess the claim that "many NRIs come into contact with brits and are often unable to talk about these things face to face, hence need a place to vent spleen in a place which offers them comfortable anonymity" comes out of direct personal experience of feeling an overhelming urge to fawn and melt on sight of a Brit? Such uncanny description can only come from first hand encounters. I am impressed.

Though I'm not the one with the 'assumed' handle B-ji

[Abhi_G]

English was not taught until class 5, as opposed to class 9.

The economic drain of WB is/was not due to kicking out of english language out of schools, even though many people will claim that. Many Bangla medium educated friends are doing pretty well economically in various sectors and their writing and comprehension skills in Bangla/English are not bad at all. There was no need to kick out the language but at the same time there is also no need to have a fuzzy warm feeling of superiority and eternal gratitude to the language for the subsequent gains in life.

[arnab]

The economic drain of WB is/was not due to kicking out of english language out of schools, even though many people will claim that.

Actually people are claiming just the opposite - They (some of them) are saying that the 'colonial' infrastucture of which the colonial language was a part, should have been rooted out to achieve success. I'm saying - it has been tried - without achieving success.

[lakshmikanth]

The economic drain of WB is/was not due to kicking out of english language out of schools, even though many people will claim that.

Actually people are claiming just the opposite - They (some of them) are saying that the 'colonial' infrastucture of which the colonial language was a part, should have been rooted out to achieve success. I'm saying - it has been tried - without achieving success.

The reason why it was not a success is because there was no local language ecosystem that depended on that language. It will not gain you socially upward mobility. The reason for lack of local language ecosystem is Briturd colonization.

So instead of praising the Britwits for giving us Angrezi, one should instead be pissed off at the root cause of the situation.

[lakshmikanth]

Pardon me for the piskology folks.

We in this forum make fun of the Bakis, Chinese, Unkilland folks and what not. We are bojitively abusive (deservedly so) towards the Bakis. Yet when one makes fun of the Briturds, or abuses them there is a large line of people waiting to defend them with the same old tried and tested formula .

Why this Stockholm syndrome? The Briturds have "othered" us, we will never be their equal humans deserving of empathy in their eyes, yet our own people empathize with the turds and look at them compassionately as humans. Why we dont do this (i.e. look at them compassionately as humans) with the Bakis, Chinese and Unkilland folks is beyond me? I am baffled

[negi]

JEM sir I am not trying to get into linku langu discussion, I have a very simple perspective i.e. we cannot change the past so the only option is to make Angrezi ours.

-- missed the 'not'

[Murugan]

Ironically, the states with less/no english exposure have done better than english bhakt states economically.

English has nothing to do with prosperity. French, Swedish, Japanese and Koreans have become developed and highest per-capita income in the world without english. Gujarat and Gujaratis were looked down by english bhakt states for not knowing/speaking english. Also true with Marwaris. So what did they do? They ultimately hired english knowers to run their businesses.

English must be learnt and taught in India to produce better clerks and Best of the Writers!

If you want to create masters and entrepreneurs english is not must.

Btw, we should not leave english at any cost. We have mastered the language. (recalling boa constrictor analogy) We go to urban book stores like Crossword, Oxford Book Store etc we see more Desi English Authors than furriners. This is especially true for literature, management, essays, astrology, religion, mysticism and philosophy. Very few in fictional writing. We do not have many desi english authors in tech, astronomy, other sciences, crafts, hobbies, gardening, computers etc. In these fields we have to promote more and more writings, desi writers. This will make it complete.

What we need immediately are desi english writers who can write on sanskrit etc for learning sanskrit thru english !!! O/w we will be learning sanskrit thru books written by furriners.

Eventually, one day, inshallah, these writers will be quoted in Amirkhani and Briturd institutions.

[Neela]

I guess the claim that "many NRIs come into contact with brits and are often unable to talk about these things face to face, hence need a place to vent spleen in a place which offers them comfortable anonymity" comes out of direct personal experience of feeling an overhelming urge to fawn and melt on sight of a Brit? Such uncanny description can only come from first hand encounters. I am impressed.

And of course only in front of brown-skins do the lot seize the chance to be seen as a honest, civilized, noble and fair judge. Wah wah ...what a grand entrance...the symptom has been identified. . But waitaminute, didn#t the British do the same. I guess us "hypocritical" lot's earlier abuses and spits can be equally applied ....... ! No?

Despite clearly stating that an ecosystem needs to be fostered and encouraged to promote an Indian language by the GoI and despite clearly stating that elitism is bred with English, some tangential point is raised and the whole thread veers out of control. Growth and success has been acheived in many non-English speaking countries and evidence was given. Yet what was discussed was self-respect from abusing the Brits. Like B-ji said, the overwhelming need to be eternally gratuituous to the Brits often bubbles and morphs into this need to defend them.

And people need not make wild assumptions about NRIs coming in contact with Brits. People should speak for themselves without indulging in crystal gazing. The education the Brits gave and which is being wildly cheered ,seems quite inadequate and unscientific.

Tokenism eh? Would the poster who volunteered to think of policy solutions take some time to provide a statistic on how many post graduate programs are done in regional languages and compare that with English based PG programs. That should be interesting.

I guess it is failure of epic proportions when one cannot fathom that multiple parameters can cause poverty. It is a sad reflection of British education system which relies on empty rhetoric and forum grandstanding when one writes " ......and the reason you are poor is because of the British" .

Hmmmm what do I smell here....the sweet longing for the nostalgic colonial times . ( WHAT? Now it is my time to take liberties with what people think )

And yes, I write all this in English. And the point is lost on the poster!

[ArmenT]

Can an admin please move all this language related stuff into the link language thread, or alternatively please lock this thread.

[Karan M]

Negi, correct. One thing I have learnt - if you have an advantage, keep it. Don't give it up for whatever reason. India for better or worse, now owns English, at least in Asia. Keep it, and work towards improving better understanding/disseminating local languages. Challenge though is the big tree effect - like cricket swamped all other sports..

BTW, does anybody here read this guy - Theodore Dalyrymple? Found him to be one of the few Brit commentators who is able to analyze the UK as it stands today, without some mandatory nods to its "ancient glory".

He has written a couple of pieces on India., by and large agreeable (though some parts may have issues - for instance they completely ignore the effect of British rule on India, they are nowhere as patronizing and rubbish as we find in the Economist, NYTimes or the rest of the so called elite media, and for once, no standard patronizing comments on daleets). Found a couple..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... bills.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087 ... 14760.html

This is another about the state of UK culture today
http://libertylawsite.org/2012/10/31/this-cant-last/

The second article is really worth reading.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 26778.html

Its titled "The ugly brutishness of modern Britain" - google for this and click the link through if the above doesn't work, because the above link may ask for subscription.

I do think that the UK is headed downstairs based on certain criteria

- They lack the overall impetus (funding + large industrial base + manpower/immigration) to sustain a proper balanced economy. Its very hard to find sufficient global engineering/hw/sw conglomerate with breakthrough products based solely out of the UK. Only a handful seem to be around (BAe, RR etc) but the lack of suitable opportunities/anti-immigration measures clearly mean this is not a country like the US, which can effectively leverage a steady stream of talent to fill gaps/drive technology progress

- Disproportionate belief in financial services & other high payout, but non brick & mortar industries

- Growing proportion of underclass/ "yobs"/chavs who think its ok to sponge off handouts & be absolutely useless productively . I was watching a show on BBC the other day, "come dine with me" as it gives a fascinating look into modern UK, beyond reality TV shows & scripted Top Gear/etc)...and one of the competitors in this upper class demographic, targeted show, was actually on welfare and open about it..!
Almost EVERYONE on that show so far, bar the young, have been significantly obese. Amazing. The Sun (I know, I know) has entire series on welfare cities where folks just sit and have a jolly life off of welfare checks. In contrast, see the productivity that is there even in Dharavi.

-UK Govt seems to be as clueless as UPA sarkar, and always pandering away wherever possible.

- Defence spending is always on a downturn, and they are in conflicts only because Uncle Sam went there first. Even critical aspects of the nuclear deterrent are in US control. One very respected aviation author with actual industry experience (in old BAe) mentioned the other day, that there are many things the UK can no longer do on an urgent basis, as it has lost the skills - such as building long range ballistic missiles & other systems. Thing to consider, given how India itself has gained and improved on these skills & is NOT dependent on any other country's veto over its strategic forces.

Overall, the UK seems to be headed down, down, and this time, there is no native civilization for them to plunder & loot.

Its going to take a long while, several decades at the very least, but I doubt the UK will have the influence it currently enjoys, by being on the seats of all the major cartels (UNSC etc) and by pandering to the US's whims by being an ever ready 2nd in command.

In Europe, I think we should really explore working more closely with the Germans, their productivity/efficiency seems to be fairly credible, and in engineering/tech, their SME+Large enterprise+education combination seems to have really worked for them. As versus our IIT/REC/ITI setup.

[Neela]

Karan Sir, the stigma that comes with looting and pillage is here to stay for the British. When they fall, people will naturally claim that there are no more lands to loot and hence the downward spiral. Now, had Britain turned itself into an economic powerhouse based on high tech engineering or something, they probably would have been admired for the transformation. But it has not. Public debt is huge. They have had anaemic growth and there is talk of a triple dip recession. No wonder, one by one, every benefit the people enjoyed is being cut. Let us see where Britain stands 20 years from now. I am not too optimistic about a British turnover. And I think I will enjoy taking digs at them . We must be careful though... every year thousands of Brits leave for Australia or other countries. In 20 years not many will be left behind.

- The main problem that I have with the British is that there has been no formal apology. And it way far too long overdue.
- Add to that, the constant condescending remarks, a sense of gloating at their wealth and how bad we are, and sheer mockery ! It happens all the time and every Brit media outlet indulges in this cheap gloating.
- Then the active harbouring of anti-Indian elements and terrorists. Khallistan and Kashmir terrorists. They indulged in this "fair play" against us with the TSPians.
- There is more. Remember, Peter Bleach from the notorious arms drop case.The Independent is on record stating that Peter Bleach contacted the BRITISH authorities . They gave the green signal.
- And how can one forget the time when during the Mumbai massacre, the BBC called the terrorists "militants".
- Not enough? how about the commonwealth coverage?

Now tell me if this is not enough to make a general picture of Britain"s attitude towards India. I guess someone who sucks at Britain;s tits would probably think there is a debt he owes them. And , my, do they come out crawling out of the woodwork every time this issue is raised. ! But to the same folks I ask, where is the apology?

[RajeshA]

This clamour for turning "abusing the brits as a means to achieve 'self-respect' for Indians (a 'let them eat cake' type of solution IMO)" -into a "actually an NRI problem being represented as an 'Indian' problem"" - is actually a RNI problem. Prof. Mrs Romila Thapar perhaps had a good insight into her own "class" - when she was mocking the NRI's for suffering from a "deep anxiety resulting from distance from homeland". She did not realize that she was providing a perfect description of the class of India-born's who suffer from a "deep anxiety resulting from distance and separation from their perceived homeland" - the hallowed shores of Albion. This makes them identify themselves with everything British, and feel their dignity has been attacked and hurt because aspects of British identity, past records, and language has been criticized or looked down upon or not worshipped.

I guess the claim that "many NRIs come into contact with brits and are often unable to talk about these things face to face, hence need a place to vent spleen in a place which offers them comfortable anonymity" comes out of direct personal experience of feeling an overhelming urge to fawn and melt on sight of a Brit? Such uncanny description can only come from first hand encounters. I am impressed.

Finally - yes, the perception that "If it was Nehru who foisted english on India - many here should be thanking him on their bended knees instead of abusing him - because this regional language focus has been tried in India and Pakistan (before it became bakistan)" is also a perfect and honest expression of the same class as Prof. Thapar's, and I applaud it - for the fundamental character is all about "bending knees" to lords and prabhu's. It does not matter who the lord is - bending knees is the fundamnetal trait - and a demand that everyone else copies the behaviour of abject courtiership.

That is a huge sixer!

1) NRI "psychoanalysis" => RNI self-diagnosis

2) NRI supposed "discomfort" with Briturds => RNI fawning urge over Briturds

3) Indian prostration before Nehru => hidden desire of RNIs to prostrate before Briturds

[RajeshA]

The goal must be clear:

Removal of English as international medium of communication, and replacing it with Sanskrit MIE (Mother Indo-European).

Everything else is fill in the blanks!

[JE Menon]

Negi then v r in agreement...
Later

[brihaspati]

Linking language use or disuse with economic growth can be very tricky even as an academic exercise. If English was the sole source of economic development, then there should not have been the continuous decrease in economic performance from before WW1 in India, right up to the temporary turnaround in trade-balance due to the war-economy and financial arrangements between Brit GOI, and UK during WWII. In that sense we might even land up arguing that a war in which UK is in dire straits is more significant for positive Indian economic growth than language.

Similarly, the post-WWII years, if JLN did "foist English" or did not reduce its importance/usage - then the Nehru Rate of Growth is linked also to continued English usage. The Chinese economy or Malaysian economy or Indonesian economy or Brazilian economy - all grew onlee after learning and imbibing English culturally and nationwide, for example!

[brihaspati]

The question is not about abusing the British or their language or culture. At least my point was more about turning the searchlight on ourselves - looking at ourselves. Introspection and self-analysis as to how our tastes and admiration in English literature or civilizational elements have grown up.

Have we ever analyzed that process? Have we looked at whether or not our admiration/appreciation/appropriation of English values - is a natural outgrowth of independent thinking, or is a guided tour - shaped directly or indirectly, in a myriad ways - consciously and deliberately first by the colonial regime and then the continuation of the structure in a formally independent cover? Do we keep the contexts of these sources of our admiration in mind? Do we become aware of how or whether these myriad cues affect our value-systems, or the way we look at even India or the Indian? That consciousness leads to freedom. What we have now is mere independence of external form- and that too quasi politically or superficially.

What surprised me slightly, was the fact that people can even rationalize their admiration for blatantly racist and imperialist authors - by actually decontextualizing their literary works from the context of what these authors represented as persons and mindsets. I was waiting to hear some appreciation of English literature by say Naipaul, here - but no one mentioned him and no one mentioned him as superior to Kipling - for example. The very fact that some of us are oblivious to the fact of what they are doing when they rationalize their admiration of Kipling by formally detaching his imperialism from his literature - shows how much the British regime has succeeded in establishing their philosophical and value-system hold. Moreover that value-system is itself not followed by the British critiques - that is they do not appreciate Indian authors, not writing in English - or classical works - without analyzing or highlighting the Indic connection to what they portray as "casteism", or all that they shout about the "evils of Hinduism" and "eastern mysticism".

So those of us appreciating while decontextualizing from imperialism - Kipling - are actually following the script laid out for colonized mind by the British Raj, and whoever they saw through to power after transition [the most anglophone and anglophile leader among the creme-de-la-creme of congrez left after Brit and congrez purges of the more anglo-loathing types became the supreme leader]. It is a one-way street of admiration and self-delusion.

[lakshmikanth]

^^^ +10000

It is all about introspection. We have to grieve what we lost. Its the 5 stages of grief. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance (Closure).

I find that many Indians are stuck in denial. Acceptance can only occur if we are brave enough to turn that light inward, and clear out the "zombie" program. That process will induce anger and sadness in any human being.

The reason I am saying that most Indians are stuck in Denial is because I don't see anger at the level that it should be at, and we are definitely not at closure judging by the fawning and contextualizing of British crimes.

I circle between anger, sadness and these days occasionally closure.

As I said before, I am just baffled at the softness of Indians against crimes of Genocidal nature perpetrated by both the Islamic and the Briturd barbarians. Isn't there any anger? Any sadness? Can we just move on, pretend as if nothing has happened? Do we just accept that English was a nectar of life that Macaulay gave us without a hint of a negative emotion? Or even if we accept English is a tool, can we just move on with it like a machine? Its only human to be emotional, why are we acting so dispassionately towards ourselves? Why have we dehumanized ourselves and humanized the Bretards? Its all very confusing to me, given that I was in that mode not too long ago.

[member_23677]

Introspection is what people do a lot here but it often ends up in whining and name calling there are plenty of samples on this forum itself. I think the main problem among these NRIs,RNIs, and globalist Indians (who just want the Indian govt to blindly copy and paste rules and systems of firangis countries ) has hijacked the academia and media. The main areas from which people get their ideas and learn about their country. English has to removed from the education system and has to be replaced with Hindi and later Sanskrit. One only has to look at Japan or China and then to our media and shops, and streets.... The way these countries respect their language is pretty admirable unlike the NRIs, RNIs and globalist idiots of our country who associate Indian languages like Hindi,Tamil,Sanskrit as the one that is spoken by uneducated... I have noticed that even Hi fi Japanese and Chinese speak a similar kind of Japanese or mandarin as a humble low or middle class person , there is no Jinglish,Chinglish etc. I can't help but wonder why that system is not in place here. Why do our movies have titles in angrezi? The way media represents the country is just too out of touch with how the actual Indians live their life. Less than 10% of Indians actually speak English ... but if someone was to judge our society by the media, one would get a very very distorted picture. The first thing that has to be done is to make Sanskrit a compulsory language and remove English ... Hindi can be made a cumpulsory language.

[RajeshA]

I think the main problem among these NRIs,RNIs, and globalist Indians (who just want the Indian govt to blindly copy and paste rules and systems of firangis countries ) has hijacked the academia and media.

P. Bhagat ji,

do you have a problem with NRIs. If so please do spell them out, including the reasons for your grouse. Perhaps you may like to give a few examples for NRI behavior to support your views as well as the reasons for you to think that they are widely prevalent among the NRIs.

[Vayutuvan]

The cup of British woes overfloweth (is that the even correct medieval inglishu? who cares?)

CHART OF THE DAY: This Chart Vindicates The Obama Economic Recovery

...
The below chart was made by Reuters' Scotty Barber, and it shows economic growth in the US, the UK, and Europe.

Now the first thing to note is that the US has recovered WAY better than either the Eurozone or the UK. So if you think Obama has been a disaster, you might first acknowledge that the US has performed better than all its major Western peers.

But beyond that, check out the UK line. The UK was recovering on a fine trajectory right up until early 2010, at which point UK growth hit a brick wall.

What happened in 2010? That's when conservative David Cameron came to power with an agenda of reigning in the debt. Sound familiar?

Basically we have a life test of a country that wants to do what conservatives in the US want to do: reduce national debt.

Doing so is a growth disaster.

[Philip]

If you want to understand the difference amd similarities between an Indian elite school and a British one like Eton,just read this fine piece on Eton.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... flourishes

However,the overwhelming demand from the Indian public is knowledge of English.How do you account for the mushrooming numbers of English tutorial institutes found in every city? With improvements in their ability to speak and understand English,youngsters find that their career opportunities are better.Many industries and corporate houses also send their employees to such institutes or get them to train their staff at the workplace.It is a fallacy to say that Britain controls English today.The growing numbers of successful Indian authors in English is just one phenomenon.As said before,it is the global lingua franca ,knowledge of it that gets you places.The sun has long since set on the British Empire and we now have the Mittals and Tatas picking up the best pieces of British family silver like JLR!

Bashing the Brits 65 years after Independence is truly passe.The great danger today is that from the east not the West....China,which is destroying indigenous industry worldwide,including India,dumping its cheap and shoddy goods as well and building up a mighty military machine which when it starts rolling will be all but unstoppable.

[Vayutuvan]

...China,which is destroying indigenous industry worldwide,including India,dumping its cheap and shoddy goods as well and building up a mighty military machine which when it starts rolling will be all but unstoppable.

Philip sir, they will be ably assisted by the British in such an endever (sic...but then do I care - all that matters is that it is phonetic). There are already signs of kneeling to the Beijing "Roy Bahadur" (CPC) (for example, British could not stop and did not spend the necessary political capital to stop the execution of a mentally retarded subject of the queen - may be because he is of "brown" origin?) and trying to get into Beijing good books through the attempted economic warfare against another former colony who pushed a big danda up the British backsides in 1776. The "A" of the ANZUS is largely a satrapy of the Chinese already. Her majesty is not going to be far behind.

[Singha]

HMG has always been deft in following tactical opportunities. the masterful way in which they managed coalitions with competing kingdoms in india, outed the french and all the while made the kings pay huge sums for british garrisons is to be read to be believed!

so they will fall in line with beijing and attempt to develop a 'special' relationship, offering london as the 'gateway' to integrate china into the western financial system and raise money from arabs, various exiled billionaires and so on.

but they might beijing a more harsh master than washington was.

[lakshmikanth]

However,the overwhelming demand from the Indian public is knowledge of English.How do you account for the mushrooming numbers of English tutorial institutes found in every city?
With improvements in their ability to speak and understand English,youngsters find that their career opportunities are better.

This is not a miracle, or magic, or some divine superiority that English has. There were around 5 - 10 posts above explaining why this is so, please read them. English is not some Miracle portion you take and get upward mobility. It is the result of colonial destruction of the native language economy. It has also caused a split between the elites and the non elites, which has to be somehow rectified at the earliest. English is not some nectar that the British Gods gave us to consume from their heavenly abode, it is what it is for a reason. It is an ugly, ugly reason.

It is a fallacy to say that Britain controls English today.The growing numbers of successful Indian authors in English is just one phenomenon.As said before,it is the global lingua franca ,knowledge of it that gets you places.The sun has long since set on the British Empire and we now have the Mittals and Tatas picking up the best pieces of British family silver like JLR!

Blij to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Impressing-the-Wh ... B004VNMBLI

Sun might have set on the Pritish embire. I hope and wish it turns real dark during my lifetime, I would have a party at their expense.

Bashing the Brits 65 years after Independence is truly passe.The great danger today is that from the east not the West....China,which is destroying indigenous industry worldwide,including India,dumping its cheap and shoddy goods as well and building up a mighty military machine which when it starts rolling will be all but unstoppable.

Bashing the Brits is ok until they formally apologize for the crimes and the Queen Hag is tried for Genocide.

Also if we fall into the trap of going against China just because the west hates China, then we are falling to the same old trap : Divide and Rule.

[Sagar G]

However,the overwhelming demand from the Indian public is knowledge of English.How do you account for the mushrooming numbers of English tutorial institutes found in every city? With improvements in their ability to speak and understand English,youngsters find that their career opportunities are better.Many industries and corporate houses also send their employees to such institutes or get them to train their staff at the workplace.

Partially right but knowledge of English doesn't guarantee you a successful career, at the end of the day the quality of your work counts not ppt presentations. English is a medium to communicate nothing more nothing less and it's not even a product of turdland.

The sun has long since set on the British Empire and we now have the Mittals and Tatas picking up the best pieces of British family silver like JLR!

Tatas have picked up JLR to get the technical know-how in areas we lack, once done I hope they dump JLR.

Bashing the Brits 65 years after Independence is truly passe.

Vehemently disagree on this saar. If we stop bashing the brits for what they did to us and still continue to do then one day we would just forget all the abuses that our people had to go through under their rule. Generations will come up worshipping their rule as if gift of god instead of what it actually was.

Bashing the Brits is ok until they formally apologize for the crimes and the Queen Hag is tried for Genocide.

Too little and way too late, only the death of England with do it for me.

[jambudvipa]

Bashing the Brits 65 years after Independence is truly passe.The great danger today is that from the east not the West....China,which is destroying indigenous industry worldwide,including India,dumping its cheap and shoddy goods as well and building up a mighty military machine which when it starts rolling will be all but unstoppable.

Philip ji can you clarify why is it passe to bash the British for their crimes? With Germans ok their entire country was destroyed in the aftermath of WWII.My concern is only making the Biritsh pay for their genocides in India.

can you tell me what punishment did the British receive for the horrific crimes? Zilch,nada,nothing.They destroyed the fabric of our soceity,made us paupers,carried out wholesale massacares...etc etc..

To those on the forum parroting about the secintific contribution of their white masters to India's development or the glory of scoeity might enlighten themselves by reading Dharampal's books:

http://www.samanvaya.com/dharampal/


This great man did a yeoman contribution to understanding India as it was before the British ravaged it.The least you can do is read and inform yourself instead of puttinh the white man on a pedestal.

[Neela]

One more thing about Britain's attitude towards India . With the NHS services dwindling and waiting times growing larger, more and more British patients come to India to get treatment. This did not go well with the lot there. What do they do? Name a bug NDM-1 and have the colloquial name " Indian superbug". Despite one of the original authors claiming that there is no proof it originated in India, they name it New Delhi metallo-ß-lactamase-1
And when a Indian rebuttal is given , Lancet,( the British medical journal) refuse to publish it
Channel-4 had a 5 minute report on NDM-1 in their news program. Not one word on the Indian rebuttal .
Whom are we kidding. From arrogance from being the colonial masters to envy and being plain bitter - that sums the attitude.

Sorry, the older Indian lot probably find it easier to say "Chalta hai" - God knows why . Maybe a misplaced sense of karma! And this after being repeatedly treated like scum!
Not the newer generations luckily! Cameron was treated like he should be been. One day in N.Delhi and the rest of time , he was allowed to play with the kids.
Britain needs us more than we need them. And with past unresolved issues, Britain will always be seen having nefarious intentions. It is their sin that they carry. The newer generations does not have the colonial hangover and are ever ready to kick them in their teeth even when they are down.

[Neela]

Bashing the Brits is ok until they formally apologize for the crimes and the Queen Hag is tried for Genocide.

Also if we fall into the trap of going against China just because the west hates China, then we are falling to the same old trap : Divide and Rule.

Well said Lakshmi-Sir!

[RajeshA]

And when a Indian rebuttal is given, Lancet,( the British medical journal) refuse to publish it
Channel-4 had a 5 minute report on NDM-1 in their news program. Not one word on the Indian rebuttal.
Whom are we kidding. From arrogance from being the colonial masters to envy and being plain bitter - that sums the attitude.

I think it would be fair that we revoke the visas of the British media outlets in India if they refuse to carry out program explaining these British fabrications. Throw the BBC out. Zimbabwe has already shown the way!

[RajeshA]

Bashing the Brits 65 years after Independence is truly passe.

The party hasn't even started as yet! The Karmic Cycle is only now slowly starting.

[vishvak]

And when a Indian rebuttal is given, Lancet,( the British medical journal) refuse to publish it
Channel-4 had a 5 minute report on NDM-1 in their news program. Not one word on the Indian rebuttal.
Whom are we kidding. From arrogance from being the colonial masters to envy and being plain bitter - that sums the attitude.

I think it would be fair that we revoke the visas of the British media outlets in India if they refuse to carry out program explaining these British fabrications. Throw the BBC out. Zimbabwe has already shown the way!

There was a documentary series in BBC on Indian ocean. Not able to find link. Shows typical British attitude. The usual way is - come to India, show how poor Indian fisherman is, show some things on topics like rich v/s poor, pollution, etc etc.

However when the location changed to Mauritius, the standards change suddenly. There is no more than a little concern on where all waste came from without even mentioning if it could have come from Europe along with travellers.

Also there is passing reference to huge European trawlers from fishermen, which BBC of course has no fortitude to visit and question about anything. The educated British are happy that people are satisfied with 'sustainable fishing' on their own while European trawler indulge in no holds barred pillage of marine life.

The least that the Govt. could do is question such biased reporting about its own record and how fairly or unfairly it has treated/mistreated topics in Europe to begin with. Only those who could mention atleast 10 unbiased documentaries can have a little chance to start filming on minor topics.

[Neela]

Bashing the Brits 65 years after Independence is truly passe.

The party hasn't even started as yet! The Karmic Cycle is only now slowly starting.

Absolutely Rajesh-Sir. For all the sins of their forefathers and the sheer arrogance of Britain today, ignominy awaits them.

[Neela]

And when a Indian rebuttal is given, Lancet,( the British medical journal) refuse to publish it
Channel-4 had a 5 minute report on NDM-1 in their news program. Not one word on the Indian rebuttal.
Whom are we kidding. From arrogance from being the colonial masters to envy and being plain bitter - that sums the attitude.

I think it would be fair that we revoke the visas of the British media outlets in India if they refuse to carry out program explaining these British fabrications. Throw the BBC out. Zimbabwe has already shown the way!

Oh yes. India has a big clout among the developing nations. When India does it, many countries will follow suit.

[member_20292]

^^^^

bolne de saalon ko......ki farak paenda hai yaara?

[RajeshA]

There was a documentary series in BBC on Indian ocean. Not able to find link. Shows typical British attitude. The usual way is - come to India, show how poor Indian fisherman is, show some things on topics like rich v/s poor, pollution, etc etc.

Ptochopornography, Paupertopornography:

Ptōchos: Greek 1) reduced to beggary, begging, asking alms. 2) destitute of wealth, influence, position, honour.
Paupertas: Latin 1) poor

This is a syndrome which afflicts Western societies, who need to see destitution and poverty of others to feel good about themselves. It is a form of p0rnography. If they wish to participate directly, they take to "humanitarianism".

It is important that the Government of India recognizes this addiction and ban British media who unabashedly indulge in this form of p0rnography.

[vishvak]

It is also perhaps an excuse to not let others point fingers in case someone do.

For example inhuman mistreatment of Roma which is ongoing since 1300 A.D. i.e. since 1300 years after birth of Jesus Christ and going on i.e. ongoing for atleast 900 years within Europe. Europeans are good at giving excuses for this. Who else can give excuses and ignore inhumane mistreatment of Roma other than Europeans for more than 900 years?

[eklavya]

You haven't provided anything to confirm your claim of Doon providing "deeper and broader expose to Indian culture".

My claim is based on inter alia personal experience of both institutions as well as plenty of public source data. You haven't provided anything to disprove my claim. So, my claim stands.

I can also do googling and come up with more links than you ever can (1 pitted against 1000+ branches do the math) but then I am not the one here trying to throw mud at others by making tall but actually hollow claims.

Sure, go ahead, do something to make your point.

Yup absolutely true, nationalism flowing in full as can be seen here in the student weekly of Doon

Done by Hindoo fundamentalists onlee.

You trawled through the weekly and decided to post this miserable comment. Truly pathetic ...

[eklavya]

Tatas have picked up JLR to get the technical know-how in areas we lack, once done I hope they dump JLR..

What sort of Taliban Business School reasoning is this.

JLR own some of the best known luxury car brands globally and a network of production facilities. No company spends billions buying a brand and production facilities with a view to destroying them. Contrary to your ridiculous hopes (probably what passes for "patriotism" in the Taliban Business School), Tata plan to invest £10bn (Rr. 85,000 Crore) in JLR over the next seven years and expand production globally, and thereby earn a return on their investment in JLR. JLR's sales are increasing and its profits are rocketing ahead, which is great news for all Tata Motors shareholders, especially as JLR is currently delivering most of Tata Motors' profits.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tata-m ... 45414.html

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liv ... -32187119/

http://www.itv.com/news/central/2012-11 ... e-profits/