^^^ This man speaks the truth.chola wrote:State managed economies are inevitably inefficient and weak. That is the frightening part about the chinis. The fact that they've lapped us three times over while it is still a communist dictatorship.Theo_Fidel wrote:Even getting to $15,000 has proven a struggle for state manged economies.
The really dhoti-shivering will come if and when the PRC becomes like a Taiwan, Japan or Hong Kong. I can only hope that the CPP hangs on. We get a transition like Taiwan had then we will never catch up.
Unfortunately, that is not the data we see from the MNCs. You are talking about an economy that consumes in trackable goods (i.e. sales of multi-national brands) between 10 to 20 times that of India. You look at things like Dior, BMW or even KFC, the chinis are not struggling to consumes anything.The consumption data is telling us that the average Chinese is still only making 30% of that or about $1,500 per annum. The pearl delta folk are at the high end, yes, even the Fox Conn folk.
The chini's companies problem is not the market but their market share. If given a choice, the chinis would buy foreign. That includes foreign brands who make their products in China.
One, there is no such thing as "afford" in a communist nation that can nationalize anything and everything. The problem is getting things built. Once things are built, then they can be used.At such a low consumption rate the Chinese people can not afford the country that has been built for them.
Two, if they cannot afford then the MNCs would not be in such a big way.
Trust no government data -- good or ill. Trust only sales. If you can sell something and you have it in your books then that is the only thing you believe. So believe me -- no, not me but MNC data. We simply cannot ignore the fact that there are record sales of GM and Apple in chiniland during this year of so-called economic hardship.
And its not tough for them to sustain.The dlones can live on meagre to no income.I see lot of well to do dlones scavenging the garbage bins ,as a hobby, looking for empty plastic bottles.On a given weekend outing they usually end up filling 3 or 4 huge plastic bags loaded on top of Target or Neighbourhood grocery carts ( which obviously has been robbed from the store) and heading towards recycle kiosks to redeem .5 cents per bottle.Theo_Fidel wrote:The latest Panda export - The Ghost town.
In that prominent vacation destination - Angola Africa. The land of $1 per day income. According to one report even the gravel & asphalt was imported from Panda wonderland. About 20,000 Chinese drones were exported as well who have now undoubtedly disappeared into the bush.
There are dozens of these all around Africa.
Actually, these are a major win for the Chinese. Angola is rich in oil that China needs. So the Chinese struck a deal with the Angolans to exchange oil for building construction. Whether the buildings are actually occupied by people or not is no concern for the Chinese, as they've already been paid for them in oil.Theo_Fidel wrote:The latest Panda export - The Ghost town.
In that prominent vacation destination - Angola Africa. The land of $1 per day income. According to one report even the gravel & asphalt was imported from Panda wonderland. About 20,000 Chinese drones were exported as well who have now undoubtedly disappeared into the bush.
There are dozens of these all around Africa.
If electricity consumption==GDPShankas wrote:China Economic Data Questioned As Electricity Use Slows
The figures that go into China’s gross domestic product are “man-made” and “for reference only,” Li Keqiang, then a regional Communist Party head, said in 2007.China’s registered urban unemployment has moved between just under 4 percent and 4.3 percent for the last decade, while electricity consumption has slowed much faster than growth in official GDP when it normally should move more in tandem. That has stirred speculation GDP figures are being skewed upward in the run-up to a leadership transition this fall.“Out of the black box comes a number, and that number doesn’t always line up with the other numbers,” says Andrew Batson, Beijing-based research director at macroeconomics consultant GK Dragonomics. “I wouldn’t be surprised if the GDP numbers this year are smoothed.”
One legacy of the planned economy is that bureaucrats are given targets by the central government for everything from steel production to harvests and local GDP. These same officials traditionally have been promoted on their success in making their numbers.
“We have a saying in China: The cadres produce the data, and data produces the cadres,” said Jin Yongjin, a professor of statistics at Renmin University in Beijing.Today’s National Bureau of Statistics report showed China’s growth slowed for a sixth consecutive quarter as trade and manufacturing decelerated. Last quarter’s 7.6 percent growth rate compared with an 8.1 percent expansion in the previous period and the 7.7 percent forecast by economists.
then Chinese GDP is >5x of Indian 
Zlin, you might want to look this up, given that your country is an expert at churning out Shanghai statistics, the GDP figures are utterly unreliable. This tiny nitpick was revealed in a wiki cable recentlyThe U.S. cable reported that Li, who is now a vice premier, focused on just three data points to evaluate Liaoning’s economy: electricity consumption, rail cargo volume and bank lending.
Might be, might not be... I think if they start building such ghosttowns, it will worsen the situation in Angola, sure they can survive for 5-6 years, but after that locals would lose their trust on chipandas and then they will just kick them out, something that's now being seen in some African countries...ArmenT wrote:Actually, these are a major win for the Chinese. Angola is rich in oil that China needs. So the Chinese struck a deal with the Angolans to exchange oil for building construction. Whether the buildings are actually occupied by people or not is no concern for the Chinese, as they've already been paid for them in oil.Theo_Fidel wrote:The latest Panda export - The Ghost town.
In that prominent vacation destination - Angola Africa. The land of $1 per day income. According to one report even the gravel & asphalt was imported from Panda wonderland. About 20,000 Chinese drones were exported as well who have now undoubtedly disappeared into the bush.
There are dozens of these all around Africa.
I don't know if those pics are truly ghost towns or simply buildings that aren't finished furnishing and whatnot, but it really doesn't matter. The Chinese don't decide what gets built, the Angolans do. The deal is Angolan oil for Chinese constructions, and the Chinese couldn't care less what the Angolans want to have built as long as they get their oil. If the Angolan government wants roads for their oil, then they get roads; if they want ghost towns, they get ghost towns. It's up to the Angolan government to decide what they need to have built by the Chinese in order to be properly compensated for their oil/minerals/etc.Sridhar.E wrote:Might be, might not be... I think if they start building such ghosttowns, it will worsen the situation in Angola, sure they can survive for 5-6 years, but after that locals would lose their trust on chipandas and then they will just kick them out, something that's now being seen in some African countries...ArmenT wrote: Actually, these are a major win for the Chinese. Angola is rich in oil that China needs. So the Chinese struck a deal with the Angolans to exchange oil for building construction. Whether the buildings are actually occupied by people or not is no concern for the Chinese, as they've already been paid for them in oil.
Singha wrote:seems beijing got hit with a mumbai style cloudburst....
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indep ... 733767.htmThe municipal government said as of Sunday night, 25 people had drowned, six died in house cave-ins, five were electrocuted to death and one was killed by lightening.
The rain and flooding also caused blackouts and traffic paralyses. As of Monday, the Beijing-Hongkong-Macao expressway had still not reopened as part of it remained submerged.
The disaster affected 1.9 million people and caused nearly 10 billion yuan (about 1.6 billion US dollars) of damage, while the exact economic loss is still being verified by local governmental departments, according to Beijing flood control and drought relief headquarters.
Experts believe the floods are largely the result of urbanization, with vast networks of roads and the elimination of greenbelts decreasing some cities' ability to cope with heavy rain.
Wang Hao, expert with China Institute of Water Resources and Hydropower Research, said, more than 80 percent of Beijing's roads are covered in impermeable materials such as concrete and asphalt, which obstructs the infiltration of the rainwater.
However, an investigation led by Li Haiyan, a professor of Beijing University of Civil Engineering and Architecture, said that about half of the drainage networks in Beijing are filled with sediments as thick as 10 to 50 percent of the pipes' diameter.
Sheng Minzhi, an engineer at the Hangzhou Planning Bureau, said the mass construction of tall buildings and underground parking lots in some Chinese cities has also slowed the rate at which rainwater is absorbed into the ground.
Wang Yi, official with Beijing flood control and drought relief headquarters, said, the drainage systems of Beijing's downtown area are largely built to withstand rainfall of 36 to 45 millimeters per hour.
Only a few places, such as the Tiananmen Square, have a drainage system that can withstand 56 millimeter per hour of rainfall.
Xu Chenghua, an engineer at the Hangzhou Urban Planning Academy, said storm drainage systems in Chinese cities are supposed to be designed in accordance with the Urban Drainage Engineering Planning Regulations approved by the Ministry of Housing and Urban-Rural Development in 2000.
Wang Zhansheng, an environmental and engineering professor at Tsinghua University, said the flooding would not be so severe if the drainage systems were designed to handle more severe rainfalls, adding that the flooding could be avoided if the regulations took population growth, water usage and sewage treatment into consideration.
China's biggest offshore oil producer CNOOC is poised to snap up Canadian rival Nexen in a $15.1bn (£9.7bn) deal.
If approved the deal would mark China's largest foreign business takeover.
State oil firm CNOOC has offered to pay $27.50 cash per share for Nexen, which is 60% higher than Friday's closing share price.
The board of Nexen has already approved the deal, but the takeover still needs to be cleared by the Canadian government.
CNOOC, which already operates a number of joint ventures with Nexen, said the deal would boost its oil reserves by 30%.
The deal marks CNOOC's third Canadian investment. In 2005, it spent 122m Canadian dollars (US$120m; £77m) on a 16.7% share of oil sand developer MEG Energy. And last November, CNOOC bought Canadian oil sands firm Opti Canada for C$2.1bn.
Chinese posters here complain that most of the commentary about them here focuses on their negatives. This is an example of why: information asymmetry.Beijing authorities have reportedly ordered Chinese media to stick to positive news about record weekend floods, after the death of at least 37 people sparked fierce criticism of the government.
Censors also deleted microblog posts criticising the official response to the disaster in China's rapidly modernising capital, which came at a time of heightened political sensitivity ahead of a 10-yearly handover of power.
City propaganda chief Lu Wei told media outlets to stick to stories of "achievements worthy of praise and tears", the Beijing Times daily reported, as authorities tried to stem a tide of accusations that they failed to do enough.
Many Beijing residents took to the country's popular microblogs, or weibos, to complain that some of the deaths could have been prevented if better warnings had been issued and the city's ancient drainage systems modernised.
A call by the Beijing government for donations to an emergency flood relief fund was also criticised by microbloggers, with many ridiculing the authorities for asking ordinary people to pay for the damage.
On Tuesday, over 72,000 postings on a microblog thread focused on the call for donations were deleted.
Aha. The rare earths story repeats, you mean.... Interesting.Singha wrote:I think there is a method behind the apparent madness of overproduction.
using their command economy, full govt control of public deposits with banks and huge reserves they are betting that a lot of big international players can be driven out of business in a few yrs of selling below cost and dumping things by the truckload.
then , the sectors will be their's to rule. outside cos do not have the luxury of such Govt support and have to survive on a more balanced fiscal basis...so eventually they will collapse.
the chinese are betting they can outlast everyone in this race.
WASHINGTON -- China is well placed to respond to possible deterioration of external environment and its economy may be undergoing a soft landing despite growing global headwinds, the International Monetary Fund said in a report on Tuesday.
"The economy has been slowing partly as a result of policy action to moderate growth to a more sustainable pace, but a worsening of the euro area crisis poses a key risk to the outlook," the Washington-based institution said in its annual Article IV Consultation Staff Report for China.
The IMF estimated China's economic growth would moderate to about 8 percent this year and then rise slightly to 8.5 percent in 2013. Without further shocks to agricultural supply, China's inflation is expected to stay in the 3-3.5 percent range this year and fall to 2.5-3 percent in 2013.
The IMF said China's macroeconomic policies are geared to slowing growth to a more sustainable pace, and continue to be adjusted in line with evolving conditions. It considered China's current fiscal stance as "appropriate" and monetary policy "consistent" with the authorities' economic objectives.
Executive directors of the Fund agreed that the key challenges for China's policymakers in the period ahead will be to achieve a soft landing for the economy while pushing ahead with reforms for a more balanced and sustainable expansion.
The IMF said policies should continue to be geared toward achieving this year's growth targets. In the event of a worsening of the external outlook, China has ample room to respond forcefully, using fiscal policy as the main line of defense and with emphasis on measures that support China's medium-term reform objectives.
Except that they're in the progress of losing their near monopoly position in rare earths, as the Japanese and others invest in other sources. As far as steel overproduction goes, producing it is one thing, selling it is quite another. The WTO enables countries to impose anti-dumping duties. They can get away with it to a limited extent and affect other big players, but there's no way they're going to be able to unload production equal to that of the ROW. They'll eat pretty much the entire loss.Hari Seldon wrote:Aha. The rare earths story repeats, you mean.... Interesting.
Chinese used to be 96% of rare-earth supply in 2009, but after they started putting quotas in early 2011, the world woke up to the issue and started to seek other sources of supply. US reopened the Mountain Pass mine in California for this reason and it will be coming online to full production sometime in 2012. Japan also recently found some sources underwater around islands that they control (including one that has enough to supply their needs for next 200 years). Incidentally, Japan alone used to account for 60% of China's rare-earth mineral output. Aussies, Canadians and Brazilians also got into the act.Hari Seldon wrote:Aha. The rare earths story repeats, you mean.... Interesting.
Seasoned players like US and Europe will be waiting to give "anti-dumping" wedgies using WTO rules.... Panda's geek leadership reads all sorts of Wall Street history books for gyan and seem to believe tactics that worked for Standard Oil back in 1880s will work today. In democracies that value private entrepreneurship, such tactics have been wrestled to ground due to the self-goal nature of monopoly businesses killing a healthy, competitive eco-system.Singha wrote:I think there is a method behind the apparent madness of overproduction.
using their command economy, full govt control of public deposits with banks and huge reserves they are betting that a lot of big international players can be driven out of business in a few yrs of selling below cost and dumping things by the truckload.
I see Suraj-saar has already mentioned about anti-Dumping on the horizon)
Chinese Olympians were subjected to a state-sponsored doping regime in the 1980s and 1990s, a retired chief medical supervisor revealed to Australian media on Friday.
Xue Yinxian, the former chief doctor for the Chinese gymnastics team in the 1980s, said steroids and human growth hormones were officially treated as part of "scientific training" as the country emerged as a sporting power.
"It was rampant in the 1980s," she told the Sydney Morning Herald. "One had to accept it."
Xue said athletes often did not know what they were being injected with and medical staff who refused to participate were marginalised.
The newspaper said it was the first time anyone in the system had publicly contradicted Beijing's line that a host of embarrassing doping busts in the 1990s was the result of ambitious individual athletes and coaches.
Beijing has insisted it has cleaned up its act since the 1994 world swimming championships when China performed beyond expectations to win 12 gold medals amid widespread suspicions of doping.
Later that year seven swimmers tested positive for steroids at the Hiroshima Asian Games, which left the squad so decimated that it won only one swimming gold at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.
The decline was only temporary and by 1998 China was back -- until four more positive tests and the discovery of human growth hormone in a swimmer's luggage at that year's world championships in Perth, Australia.
9 inches of rain and so much destruction in Beijing? In Hyderabad on the night of 20-21st July, it rained 7 inches and the death toll was 11 dead mostly from a couple of wall collapses in the industrial estates. This led to an uproar with civic authorities being roundly blamed for clogged storm water drains.Theo_Fidel wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... story.html
China raises Beijing storm’s death toll to 77 from 37 after public questioned outdated tally
http://www.thehindu.com/navigation/?typ ... ge=archiveHeavy rain battered Andhra Pradesh on Saturday claiming 11 lives in all, nine of them in wall collapses in the State capital, which received a record 18 cm rainfall in eight hours. According to reports reaching here, two more deaths were reported from outside the Capital. One of them died in a wall collapse in Mahabubnagar. The Friday fury unleashed by the rain exposed the chinks in the stated preparedness of the administration. As the downpour lashed the twin cities, the age-old storm water drain system clogged leading to water logging of roads and inundation of several localities.