Terroristan - May 1, 2019

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Sep 2019 12:04

The fact that erstwhile state of J&K does not exist in its 1947 form, UN resolutions would be DOA. So taking back PoK will be second last unfinished item of partition. Liberating Baluchistan will complete the Redcliff exercise.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Sep 2019 12:11

I don't know why folks spend time gaming scenarios that are just not feasible.

The plebiscite was for the whole of J&K and that includes Akshi Chin and Shaksgam Valley. Without the whole of J&K under Indian jurisdiction where is the question of a plebiscite?

BTW, the day we will be able to wrest Akshi Chin from China we will be able to tell UN to stand in the corner and become a murga.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 18 Sep 2019 12:27

abhijitm wrote:
mmasand wrote:
The UN resolution is dead, both the Lahore and Simla agreement superseded any previous agreements. The issue is purely bilateral - period.
Simla agreement talks about both parties should not unilaterally alter the LOC. Our action in pok will break the agreement and it might take us back to UN resolution. See this para from simla agreement:
"In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this Line."

I want you to read that sentence in the Simla agreement again, then again, and again. "Cease-fire" - there is small arms fire on a daily basis, and the cease-fire line is violated. Besides, I can't imagine a unilateral annexation without provocation elsewhere, this is a long game strategy to push PAK Fauj into an existential crisis, where they are compelled to aggress.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 18 Sep 2019 13:26

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gates-fo ... 69059d8162
Activists Petition Gates Foundation Not To Honor India’s Prime Minister
Actors Riz Ahmed and Jameela Jamil have also pulled out of the event in which an award is to be given to Narendra Modi despite India’s crackdown in Kashmir.
By Sarah Ruiz-Grossman
Activists delivered a petition with more than 100,000 signatures to the Gates Foundation’s Seattle headquarters on Monday asking the high-profile organization not to give an award to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at an event next week.
The petition from Justice for All says the award, which the foundation is giving to Modi for a sanitation initiative in India, “could not have come at a more awkward time.” It points to recent events in Kashmir, where Modi’s Hindu nationalist-led government stripped its part of the Muslim-majority state of its autonomy last month and then arrested thousands of people and cut communications in a widespread crackdown.
....
Gautam

williams · Post by **williams** » 18 Sep 2019 13:39

abhijitm wrote:
mmasand wrote:
The UN resolution is dead, both the Lahore and Simla agreement superseded any previous agreements. The issue is purely bilateral - period.
Simla agreement talks about both parties should not unilaterally alter the LOC. Our action in pok will break the agreement and it might take us back to UN resolution. See this para from simla agreement:
"In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this Line."

Agreements are made between parties with some sense of rule of law. The moment they start infiltrating terrorist, they have no respect for the line of control. The agreement is already broken.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Sep 2019 13:54

Shimla agreement was buried for good once Porxis tried Kargil misadventure. It is now only a piece of paper not worth wrapping your toilet paper in. We are now in a world where might is right and money owns the narrative.
Liberating PoK via a full blown war may not be the action GOI is contemplating but weakening Proxis to a state where they start imploding may be the longer game plan or in case external players work on new blood borders.
In case the war comes to Iran, we may see some action on POK front.
INdian polity and Generals are not given to talk without any reason unlike their Parkis counterparts.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 18 Sep 2019 14:17

pankajs wrote:I don't know why folks spend time gaming scenarios that are just not feasible.

The plebiscite was for the whole of J&K and that includes Akshi Chin and Shaksgam Valley. Without the whole of J&K under Indian jurisdiction where is the question of a plebiscite?

BTW, the day we will be able to wrest Akshi Chin from China we will be able to tell UN to stand in the corner and become a murga.

China's position all along is that Aksai Chin is/was never a part of princely state of j&k, hence UN resolution does not applicable to that part.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 18 Sep 2019 14:25

mmasand wrote:
abhijitm wrote: Simla agreement talks about both parties should not unilaterally alter the LOC. Our action in pok will break the agreement and it might take us back to UN resolution. See this para from simla agreement:
"In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this Line."
I want you to read that sentence in the Simla agreement again, then again, and again. "Cease-fire" - there is small arms fire on a daily basis, and the cease-fire line is violated. Besides, I can't imagine a unilateral annexation without provocation elsewhere, this is a long game strategy to push PAK Fauj into an existential crisis, where they are compelled to aggress.

I can understand your emotions, I share that too. But we are discussing technicalilties here.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 18 Sep 2019 14:33

Vikas wrote:Shimla agreement was buried for good once Porxis tried Kargil misadventure. It is now only a piece of paper not worth wrapping your toilet paper in. We are now in a world where might is right and money owns the narrative.

It is not buried for MEA, as on each forum to all countries we are giving example of Simla agreement and how two countries should abide by that contract. We also take stand that Simla agreement supercedes UN resolution 47.

The point is, to take back PoK we will have to actually break that agreement from our stand point of view. Which is fine, you got to do what you got to do (same with ITW). My analysis from the technical point of view was, does that then take us back to UN resolution...

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Sep 2019 15:17

abhijitm wrote:
pankajs wrote:I don't know why folks spend time gaming scenarios that are just not feasible.

The plebiscite was for the whole of J&K and that includes Akshi Chin and Shaksgam Valley. Without the whole of J&K under Indian jurisdiction where is the question of a plebiscite?

BTW, the day we will be able to wrest Akshi Chin from China we will be able to tell UN to stand in the corner and become a murga.
China's position all along is that Aksai Chin is/was never a part of princely state of j&k, hence UN resolution does not applicable to that part.

Sure but that doesn't matter to India. Only UNSC resolutions matter for India. As far as we are concerned we will make a pretense of following the UN resolution in word and spirit! If China and India differ we will have a stalemate. That suits us fine. As long as we have PoK including GB, Thank you very much !!

The resolutions clearly apply to the whole of J&K as was inherited from the British. No Akshi chin no plebiscite.

BTW, no one has raised the more important question till date on Akshi chin. Was anyone living in the Akshi chin area for a plebiscite to have any meaning there? BUT that too doesn't matter.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Sep 2019 17:12

Activists Petition Gates Foundation

If only so many activists had pleaded for pakis to end terrorism, but yindoo have to deal with terrorism!

So what we get is petition seeking PM of India not to be honoured (elected with slogan of sab kaa saath/vikaas) called right wing party while paki politicians calling for international jihad and nuke option as equal==equal. One should be careful about such pseudo-lefty plus Islamic religious activism that wants to fuzzy international relations piece by piece.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Sep 2019 17:38

abhijitm wrote:
Vikas wrote:Shimla agreement was buried for good once Porxis tried Kargil misadventure. It is now only a piece of paper not worth wrapping your toilet paper in. We are now in a world where might is right and money owns the narrative.
It is not buried for MEA, as on each forum to all countries we are giving example of Simla agreement and how two countries should abide by that contract. We also take stand that Simla agreement supercedes UN resolution 47.

The point is, to take back PoK we will have to actually break that agreement from our stand point of view. Which is fine, you got to do what you got to do (same with ITW). My analysis from the technical point of view was, does that then take us back to UN resolution...

Technically, India's position is that Plebiscite option is no longer valid due to various elections in J&K. India doesn't claim that we are not able to conduct plebiscite due to x.y.z reason, hence even when India gets physical possession of POJK, Plebiscite still would not be an option on the table. For India UN resolutions are no longer operational.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 18 Sep 2019 18:02

pankajs wrote:
abhijitm wrote: China's position all along is that Aksai Chin is/was never a part of princely state of j&k, hence UN resolution does not applicable to that part.
Sure but that doesn't matter to India. Only UNSC resolutions matter for India. As far as we are concerned we will make a pretense of following the UN resolution in word and spirit! If China and India differ we will have a stalemate. That suits us fine. As long as we have PoK including GB, Thank you very much !!

The resolutions clearly apply to the whole of J&K as was inherited from the British. No Akshi chin no plebiscite.

BTW, no one has raised the more important question till date on Akshi chin. Was anyone living in the Akshi chin area for a plebiscite to have any meaning there? BUT that too doesn't matter.

The Plebiscite in GB/POK/Northern areas would be legal and have sanctity only if population voting is Kashmiri. The first condition of any UN exercise would be voting not allowed for non kashmiris. Would pakistan which has done massive demographic engineering by settling pakjabis in kashmir allow that? Remember the Punjabis are a majority in the Pakistani occupied Kashmir.

The status quo of Kashmir has been irrevocably violated by the demographic manipulation - settlement of Punjabis in Pakistan occupied Kashmir and also the illegal ceding of a part of Kashmir to China, meaning that the UN resolutions of 1948 exist only on paper but are effectively null and void.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Sep 2019 18:20

twitter

Even Pakistani has started believing that their Army is useless and they use common citizen as a shield. Listen to this Pakistan maulana

https://twitter.com/Shatrughnakate/stat ... 7072602112

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 18 Sep 2019 18:23

Vikas wrote:The fact that erstwhile state of J&K does not exist in its 1947 form, UN resolutions would be DOA. So taking back PoK will be second last unfinished item of partition. Liberating Baluchistan will complete the Redcliff exercise.

Ah but even Pakistan does not exist in its 1947 form. Which means that we could even settle the dispute with the true successor state of Pakistan, which is Bangladesh, since in 1971 East Pakistan did comprise the bigger state and its leading party was voted to power in Pakistan as a whole.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 18 Sep 2019 20:35

I hope there is some clear strategy behind India repeatedly (first for President, now for PM) asking for clearance for VVIP use of Pakistani airspace. Both have been turned down, publicly asked by India and publicly turned down by Pakistan.

If there is no strategy, it is just unnecessary equal-equal done by us and getting ourselves humiliated for no reason.

But there is probably some strategy or method to the madness, maybe to force Pakistan to publicly exhibit certain kinds of behavior and action that we can eventually leverage. Though nobody in the media or general public seems to be clear on what exactly the reasons or goals are here.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 18 Sep 2019 20:40

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 79920.html
Pakistan turns down India's request to use its airspace for PM Modi's flight to US
Pakistan turned down the request citing protocol. Earlier this month they refused to let President Ram Nath Kovind to pass through their airspace BusinessToday.In New Delhi Last Updated: September 18, 2019
Pakistan has turned down a request by India to let Prime Minister Narendra Modi's flight through its airspace. Pakistan turned down the request citing protocol. This is the second time this month Pakistan has turned down such a request from India. Earlier this month they refused to let President Ram Nath Kovind to pass through their airspace to Europe.
According to a report in The Times of India, Pakistan mentioned that Air India One is a VIP flight and not a commercial one. The new route that AI One will take now will increase the fly time for the Delhi-Frankfurt leg by 45-50 minutes. The alternate route that AI One would take would be Mumbai-Arabian Sea-Muscat-Europe, while the straight route would have allowed AI One to fly from Delhi to Pakistan to Afghanistan to Iran and then to Europe.
.....
Gautam

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Sep 2019 21:29

https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 0746099712

Major Gaurav Arya (Retd) @majorgauravarya

Silently, without fanfare or fuss, Pak Army declares Martial Law in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Civil liberties have been curtailed. Apparently, there is an “extraordinary situation” prevailing, which only the Pakistan Army can control.

And then they talk about Kashmir. #MunafiqQaum

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Sep 2019 21:45

https://twitter.com/AnasMallick/status/ ... 4359738368

Anas Mallick @AnasMallick

Just In: #Pakistan maintains that involvement of hostile agencies in kidnap of LtCol(R) Habib Zahir cannot be ruled out. Government continues to make all out efforts to locate him and shall not rest until he is home, NO swap being done. He is still missing, says
@ForeignOfficePk

Skanda · Post by **Skanda** » 18 Sep 2019 23:01

Bart S wrote:I hope there is some clear strategy behind India repeatedly (first for President, now for PM) asking for clearance for VVIP use of Pakistani airspace. Both have been turned down, publicly asked by India and publicly turned down by Pakistan.
...
.

Could be Indian bureaucratic process as well. Govt of countries must be informed when a VVIP transits through their air-space.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Sep 2019 23:35

Don't forget that Porkis too will be flying east over Indian mainland and then this happiness will vanish and begging bowl will come out.
Bureaucracy and babus have loooooong memory.
Add to the fact that requesting for Air space is a normal practice when heads of states fly over other countries.
Establishes crazy behavior of Pak. They have painted themselves in a corner and would not know how to come out of it without few lamp posts getting busy.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 19 Sep 2019 00:02

Skanda wrote:
Bart S wrote:I hope there is some clear strategy behind India repeatedly (first for President, now for PM) asking for clearance for VVIP use of Pakistani airspace. Both have been turned down, publicly asked by India and publicly turned down by Pakistan.
...
.
Could be Indian bureaucratic process as well. Govt of countries must be informed when a VVIP transits through their air-space.

Huh? You have to file a flight plan for a non-scheduled flight (AI1) from all the countries (IFR's) the flight will transit and nothing merely bureaucratic but procedural. In a year or so from now, Air India's 747 will be replaced by retrofitted 777's that may be transferred to the IAF to operate assuming AI is going to be privatised.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 19 Sep 2019 00:54

https://twitter.com/i/status/1174393916063473665
For crying out Loud
Only happens in donkey land

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Sep 2019 01:12

Are they launching the first Pakistani astronaut?

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 19 Sep 2019 02:05

https://twitter.com/nailainayat/status/ ... 6363624450

Laal Topi finally gets the recognition that he deserves

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 19 Sep 2019 02:39

Cheers

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Sep 2019 02:44

Vikas wrote:
abhijitm wrote: It is not buried for MEA, as on each forum to all countries we are giving example of Simla agreement and how two countries should abide by that contract. We also take stand that Simla agreement supercedes UN resolution 47.

The point is, to take back PoK we will have to actually break that agreement from our stand point of view. Which is fine, you got to do what you got to do (same with ITW). My analysis from the technical point of view was, does that then take us back to UN resolution...
Technically, India's position is that Plebiscite option is no longer valid due to various elections in J&K. India doesn't claim that we are not able to conduct plebiscite due to x.y.z reason, hence even when India gets physical possession of POJK, Plebiscite still would not be an option on the table. For India UN resolutions are no longer operational.

the minute that the pakis went in for demographic changes by resettling outsiders in POK, the plebiscite options went out the window.

The pakis have also ensured demographic changes on the Indian side by getting the sunnis to move into Jammu and Ladakh, just like they are behind the huge demography changes in assam and the planned settlement of the beedis into west bengal over the years all of which showed the ISI hand.

for the pakis, vote it out seems to be a better option than fight it out.

1971 has left a very deep cognitive scar in the paki jehadi national personality and their paki army psyche. The pakis have spun the 1965 and the kargil wars to come out winners in front of their people but there is no way for them to hide 1971 in today's internet age.

IK niazi recently admitting publicly that they would lose a conventional war with India is a thought that has been corrosively simmering away and eating at the paki national brain since 1971.

the muslims lust for andalus even today after so many centuries of humiliation at being kicked out.

For the pakis 1971 is still a fresh and maggot festering wound.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 19 Sep 2019 02:55

Rsatchi wrote:https://twitter.com/i/status/1174393916063473665
For crying out Loud
Only happens in donkey land

Rsatchi Ji:

JAFFER OOPUR JAFFER BAITHA JAFFER KHAATTA JAATA THAA!

Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 19 Sep 2019 03:34

X Posted on the J&K Union Territory-2019 Thread

Cheers

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Sep 2019 07:51

There are two problems.

One, between India & Pakistan which is the subject of the UN Resolution 47 of 1948.

The other is between India and China over China's occupation of Aksai Chin. There are no UN Resolutions on this.

When we say plebiscite, the Pakistanis have to retrieve Shaksgam Valley from the Chinese and hand it over to India because it was bartered away by Pakistan in 1963. China has consistently said that it would abide by any final settlement but that is immaterial to us as China is not a party in the UN Resolution.

Technically, Aksai Chin must also be included for any plebiscite because the Maharajah's rule extended upto Shaidullah (now Xiadulla in Aksai Chin). How this could be resolved for the purpose of plebiscite is unknown.

In any case, there should not be any talk of plebiscite any more. India no longer recognizes the UN Resolutions. For this reason, UNMOGIP though present in New Delhi, is not allowed by India to visit the LOC or IB. As far as India is concerned, the UN Resolution on J&K is dead and buried with elapse of time, events, Simla & Lahore Agreements. Along with that go plebiscite, UNMOGIP and all such relic. Even Kofi Annan tried to remove the resolutions.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 19 Sep 2019 10:29

1) can india withdraw from the UN resolutions as sometimes Subramaniam Swamy alluded to? 2) any reason why GOI does not state the points as mentioned by Ssridhar?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Sep 2019 11:19

We must remember the following:

I have posted this before but do so again to set the context. The first Boundary Commission set up by the British in c. 1846 determined that the Karakoram range formed the eastern limits of J&K Princely State. The Karakoram runs right across the Aksai Chin and bisects it. The KunLun Mountain range is on the eastern extremity of Aksai Chin. The Tibet-Sinkiang Highway, G219, (built by China in 1957) passes right between the Karakoram & the KunLun ranges in Aksai Chin. The border story starts in the year 1865 when British Surveyor W.H.Johnson surveyed the land extent of the State of Jammu & Kashmir. The Kashmir Maharaja’s outpost at Shahidullah (now Xaidulla) made Johnson include the Kun Lun watershed (further east of the Karakoram) as part of J&K. Pangong Lake (Pangong Tso in Tibet) is the southern end of the Johnson Line and is about five hours drive from Leh through the third highest motorable pass, Chang La. The Pangong Tso is south of the great bend of the Shyok River around Siachen just before the Nubra River joins it (See Map3). Thus, Shaidullah (further north of the Karakoram Pass) made the eastern end of Johnson’s survey while Pongong Tso made the southern end of the survey for Ladakh. There existed therefore a gap in the boundary between Pongong Tso and Shahidullah through the Karakoram Pass (the Karakoram pass was never in dispute and which was already accepted as forming the border between Ladakh and Tibet). The Johnson Line thus confirmed Aksai Chin as part of J&K. By 1878, China had conquered Eastern Turkistan (later known as Sinkiang and now Xinjiang) and had erected boundary markers at the Karakoram Pass. In c. 1897, Sir John Ardagh proposed a boundary line along the crest of the Kun Lun north of the Yarkand River (The Yarkand River orginates in the Karakoram very near Siachen Glacier. One tributary of the Yarkand is the Shaksgam River. It is the Shaksgam valley that Pakistan conceded to China in c. 1963 as part of the Border Agreement with China). This proposal fixed the gap between Pongong Tso and Shahidullah through the Karakoram Pass. These lines together became known as the Johnson-Ardagh Boundary Line. India, since its independence, has recognized only the Johnson-Ardagh Line in Ladakh which gives the entire Aksai Chin to India.
While the Shaksgam Valley was of no importance to Pakistan, it added strategic depth to the Aksai Chin area occupied by China in 1962.
In c. 1987, Pakistan formally recognized the Aksai Chin area as belonging to China.
Both the above actions by Terroristan are as illegal as China occupying Aksai Chin.
In the recent UNSC closed-session, the Chinese Ambassador had also raised the issue of Aksai Chin though indirectly, “What should be pointed out is that India’s action has also challenged the Chinese sovereign interests and violated bilateral agreements on maintaining peace and stability in the border area and, on that, China is also very much seriously concerned. And, we wish to emphasize that such unilateral practice by India is not valid in relation to China and will not change China’s exercise of sovereignty and effective administrative jurisdiction over the territory.”

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 19 Sep 2019 12:23

https://t.co/m6t3OZxB7Z?amp=1
As Khadi Ninja says ‘Ab Bhaat hogi to sirf POK pe hogi Aur aaatankawad pe hogi’
What is Charsi wanting to talk about

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 19 Sep 2019 14:28

54 years ago on this day, Pakistan killed an Indian Chief Minister because his plane was flying ‘too close’ to Indo-Pak border
https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/balwant ... -1965-war/

On 19th September 1965, we were in middle of the 1965 India-Pakistan war. The then Chief Minister of Gujarat, Balwant Rai Mehta, a tall Congress leader died after the civilian aircraft he was travelling with seven others was shot down by a Pakistani airforce pilot near Indo-Pak border in the Rann of Kutch.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 19 Sep 2019 14:43

Sindhi Hindu girl found dead in hostel; massive protests hit Karachi
https://m.republicworld.com/world-news/ ... it-karachi
Namrita Chandni, a resident of Ghotki town, was found dead in her hostel room while a piece of cloth was tied around her neck
The police had downplayed the incident stating it as a case of suicide
Protesters have demanded justice for the deceased and better law and order

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 19 Sep 2019 14:44

darshan wrote:54 years ago on this day, Pakistan killed an Indian Chief Minister because his plane was flying ‘too close’ to Indo-Pak border
https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/balwant ... -1965-war/

On 19th September 1965, we were in middle of the 1965 India-Pakistan war. The then Chief Minister of Gujarat, Balwant Rai Mehta, a tall Congress leader died after the civilian aircraft he was travelling with seven others was shot down by a Pakistani airforce pilot near Indo-Pak border in the Rann of Kutch.

I recall reading a news report that the then Gujarat CM was going to inaugurate the new Tata Chemicals factory in Mithapur. I can't imagine the Tatas setting up a factory that close to the India-Pak border.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 19 Sep 2019 15:47

darshan wrote:54 years ago on this day, Pakistan killed an Indian Chief Minister because his plane was flying ‘too close’ to Indo-Pak border
https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/balwant ... -1965-war/

On 19th September 1965, we were in middle of the 1965 India-Pakistan war. The then Chief Minister of Gujarat, Balwant Rai Mehta, a tall Congress leader died after the civilian aircraft he was travelling with seven others was shot down by a Pakistani airforce pilot near Indo-Pak border in the Rann of Kutch.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... veoHJbYK6A
And see the Baki Press response to the Atlantique episode

I wonder whether there is some truth in the media report of TSP wanting to take hostages as a bargaining chip.
Abhi episode of the recent past comes to mind!!

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 19 Sep 2019 16:13

PM Imran warns against crossing LoC for Kashmir jihad - Shahid Hamid

LANDI KOTAL: Prime Minister Imran Khan warned against any emotional attempt from the people to cross the Line of Control (LoC) from Pakistan, saying on Wednesday any such attempt would, in fact, affect the struggle of the people in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

Cheers

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 19 Sep 2019 16:21

https://youtu.be/6UBGiAnGNS8
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... iqsaudgD14
Be it 'Jinno' aka 'Skinny' in Gujju

to 'one-ball'

aka Iqbal most recent converts (be it mulsims or rice-Christians) are most vociferous of the virtues of their converted religion and denigrate their previous religion.
Also anyone with a link to 'Abrahamic faith' via their marriage/alliance/butt-mate

whatever are in the same mould.

Do the Aam Abduls reliase that their founding fathers were 'Hindu-rejects'

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 19 Sep 2019 17:05

In Pakistan-Held Kashmir, Growing Calls for Independence

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/worl ... dence.html
Important data points for reference. Surprising that the NYT published it, but their usual pro-Paki reputation makes it all the more useful.