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Ramana garu please help me understand this logic stands true for almost 99.99 % of paki population at some point of time. Plus do we have enough data to prove this hypothesis (for christian converts)? I mean if some dalit hindu wanted to escape persecution he would convert to ROP why would he convert to Christianity? That is almost like aasam se gire aur khajoor mein atke. A few days back there was an article written by some anglo indian from calcutta and he went to paki lands to meet his lost cousins and realized they had become muslims to escape persecution. Please adviseramana wrote:
Brad, All of them are former Hindus. The Christians in TSP are Hindus who converted to escape the Mullahs gaze. Didn't help.
And no Vatican will support them.
The Parsis are needed in TSP to run their liqour stores. So none of them will make a beeline to India.
I think that these news people are playing tricks!!! The only train that you could see at Lahore/Wagah from India with hindi signs is the "Samjhauta Express"!by Rcase
This was a video on the Tribue web site about the woes of Pakistan Railways. At a couple of spots they show the train coaches and it suspiciously looked like Indian Railways and does in fact have Hindi plastered over it! In fact I was able to spot NR (Northern Railways) painted on one of the coaches. Watch at 0:50, 2:00, 2:09, 2:44.
Do the Pakis use Indian Railways coaches? Or is it the news channel interweaving Indian Railways videos and passing it off as their own?
Let's be clear: Designating the Haqqani network was a welcome, if belated, move. The problem is that Pakistan's military and intelligence agency has paid no price for continuing to support the very organizations that the United States recognizes as its enemies.
Misguided by whom? They are the ones who initiated and funded it.ramana wrote:Some Ahmediyyas I met now claim they are from Bombay. They disown TSP. Say that they were misguided at time of Partition.
Most dalits who converted to christianity around 1947 chose that option because of the line of work. As dalits they swept the streets and cleaned toilets. As christians they would continue doing that. My guess is that they also preferred christianity over islam in order to keep the option to revert to hinduism available. As muslims, they would be halaled. The question is what kept them from reverting to the religion of their ancestors. They probably saw the dalit christians doing much better than the low caste hindus (at least during the first three decades after 1947). Then came zia and all hell broke loose.Brad Goodman wrote:I mean if some dalit hindu wanted to escape persecution he would convert to ROP why would he convert to Christianity? That is almost like aasam se gire aur khajoor mein atke.
“The best examples are English language (compulsory) courses being taught at metric (sic) (SSC) and intermediate (HSSC) levels. The books recommended and being taught at present, are actually meeting mental level of 7th and 8th grade students. It should be remembered, these books replaced ‘Interactive English’ which was the first course meeting the mental levels of 9th and 10th grade students,”
Saeed Ajmal will receive a special award from the Pakistan Cricket Board after the spin bowler was left off the shortlist for the International Cricket Council’s Player of the Year
Goes well with what Bhutto said to PA after the drubbing they got in 1971. Hey! Keeping the tradition alive and creating folklore for future generations out of current face-losing events; that's the paki way.“Saeed Ajmal, we still say you’re the number one bowler in the world and the PCB recognises you, and whether someone gives you the prize, that is immaterial, we don’t care”
Now, Jhelum is under floods. Pakistan refused the Wullar barrage works which would have regulated the flow to a large extent.abhijitm wrote:[url=xxxhttp://dawn.com/2012/09/10/rain-flash-floods-kill-78-in-pakistan-officials/]Flood ritual begins in pakistan[/url]
Speaking of Fleeing and Ships ............ the majority, or the minority of the majority, is also fleeing in ships:SSridhar wrote:First the minorities will flee. Then, the majority themselves will flee. Those on board the ship realize that the ship has run aground and broken up. India cannot take all sorts of people as refugees.
.tl;dr - America was a land of plenty (i.e was giving plenty of bakshis to Pakistan) when it was full of TFTA people. Now there are increasing number of SDRE people hence it may not be a land of plenty.America — still land of plenty?
By Shahzad Chaudhry
The founder of the sect was very pro-British.anupmisra wrote:Misguided by whom? They are the ones who initiated and funded it.ramana wrote:Some Ahmediyyas I met now claim they are from Bombay. They disown TSP. Say that they were misguided at time of Partition.
Christine "turncoat" UnFair is by this time justifiably infamous for her flipflops ,Anujan wrote:Christine Fair seems to be off her meds. Remember that lady once suggested that Pakistan should be offered a nuclear deal, Cashmere ityadi for its co-operation. Also suggested that India should shut up about terror attacks and help US succeed in afghanistan by pandering to Pakistan.
Here is her latest:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... _of_terror
Why Obama should blacklist Pakistan -- not just the Haqqanis.
From here:Pakistan is a neuralgic concern for Indians. Just 13% of all Indians have a positive view of their neighbor. Nevertheless, seven-in-ten overall think it is important to improve relations, including through resolution of the Kashmir dispute (77%), increased trade (64%) and further negotiations (58%).
Notably, Indians and Pakistanis share an animosity toward each other. But both want their bilateral relations to improve.
They are all misguided. Sunni claims Shias are misguided and Shia say the same to Sunnis. Ah-Mad-is think both S S are misguided . Jinnah was misguided by Nehru and Gandhi and Zia by USA. Abbu says Ammi is misguided and Beerather says Sista is misguided . Mullah says whole Muhala is misguided and whole Moohaala claims the town is misguided. In the Hole History only 4 people were actually righteously guided , rest are still running in circles like Choochas with head/brain cut off . Lets call Pakistan Misguidedstan by Miscreants.anupmisra wrote:Misguided by whom? They are the ones who initiated and funded it.ramana wrote:Some Ahmediyyas I met now claim they are from Bombay. They disown TSP. Say that they were misguided at time of Partition.
The first time she ran away was from her father’s house, after he beat her for not handing over all her salary. She went back after he promised not to mistreat her. While Gul looked forward to reuniting with her family, her father had other plans. He interviewed suitors with the caveat that they pay him a bride price. Inevitably, the highest bidder was also the oldest.
To avoid a scene, Zamaan drugged his daughter and the nikah was performed while she was unconscious. She woke up to find herself in a village in Azad Kashmir. Her husband promptly let her know he had her father’s permission to break her legs to prevent her from escaping. Hearing her cry for help, a local councillor called the police. Her in-laws bribed local journalists to dissuade them from breaking the story.
My source proved to be right. Check the OBL thread.vishal wrote:India, Abbottabad, and Osama bin Laden: Did New Delhi Assist the U.S. on Operation Neptune Spear?
http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/10/indi ... une-spear/
Also, note the entirely gratuitous reference to India at the end of the article above.McDonald's is at the centre of a row over Islamic values in Pakistan after a customer complained he was told not to sit beside his wife because managers feared it would damage the restaurant's family reputation.
In an account posted on his blog, Mr Ansari said he was told: "Sir, this is a family restaurant. Couples sitting together is against the policy of McDonald's Pakistan, as it goes against the family atmosphere of the restaurant." Two managers then told him that couples sitting together damaged the "Islamic family atmosphere" of McDonald's, according to the account.
RamaY wrote:My source proved to be right. Check the OBL thread.vishal wrote:India, Abbottabad, and Osama bin Laden: Did New Delhi Assist the U.S. on Operation Neptune Spear?
http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/10/indi ... une-spear/
RamaY wrote:My source proved to be right. Check the OBL thread.vishal wrote:India, Abbottabad, and Osama bin Laden: Did New Delhi Assist the U.S. on Operation Neptune Spear?
http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/10/indi ... une-spear/
But, Ayya(Arya), there was no Indian raid till now and 12 months have passed....The same source also informed that RAW has detailed knowledge of the whereabouts of Mohammad Azar, Hafeez Saeed, and Dawood Ibrahim and Indian cross border raids will happen sometime in next 6-12 months; before the announcement of mid-term elections in India.
Its time to stop this Some Jhootha express and start Some Joota express.SBajwa wrote: I think that these news people are playing tricks!!! The only train that you could see at Lahore/Wagah from India with hindi signs is the "Samjhauta Express"!
By Ferya Ilyas - Published: September 11, 2012
Pakistan was better than India in every sense when we were in power, says PML-N chief PHOTO: INP/FILE
LAHORE: Enlisting the developmental projects undertaken by the Pakistan Muslim League – Nawaz (PML-N) during its past tenures, PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif said their growth reforms were copied by India as they proved to be very successful.
Speaking in Lahore on Tuesday, Sharif said India continued with the developmental work and hence prospered, whereas Pakistan did not as the PML-N government was dissolved.
“Pakistan was better than India in every sense back then, our currency was stronger, we had more electric power, our economic growth rate was close to 8% while India’s was around 2% to 3%,” Nawaz stated.
“India would look up to Pakistan as our country was fast developing,” he added.
Explaining their current struggle in Pakistan, Sharif said his party is “not struggling for power but for values; for the future of Pakistan.”
“We only want power that can help us make Pakistan a better place,” he said.
Pointing out the problems in Balochistan, the PML-N chief said that the crisis would have not cropped up if PML-N was allowed to complete its tenures.
“We had planned to build motorways, schools and hospitals in the province just like other provinces,” he claimed.
Boasting about the nuclear tests done during his stint in power, Sharif said the step brought Pakistan on par with India, which had become a nuclear nation earlier.
“This made Indian leader Vajpayee come all the way to Pakistan to talk about solving issues through dialogues,” he said.
Mocking Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan for his claims of change in a matter of few days, Sharif said these problems cannot be solved in days, it takes years to bring about a change.
By AH Nizami - Published: September 11, 2012
Marble industry battling for survival.
MIRPUR: Protests have erupted in many areas following acute shortage of drinking water not only for residents but also for the industrial zones in Mirpur – a city dubbed the industrial district of Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK).
“The old industrial zone close to the city is among the areas facing severe shortage of water for the past three weeks,” an industrialist said in an emergency meeting of the Mirpur Marble Association held the other day.
“Water supply has been totally suspended to the old industrial area by the Public Health Engineering Department,” said the association’s President, Mirza Karamat Hussain.
“Quick restoration of water supply is the need of the hour for survival of the marble industry,” he said. Hussain alleged that despite repeated complaints, the water supply agency was paying no heed to the problem, forcing them to close the marble industry.
Talking to The Express Tribune, an official of the Public Health Engineering Department stressed that since the industrial estates came in administrative jurisdiction of the AJK Department of Commerce and Industry, it was their responsibility to ensure supply of required facilities like water, power and gas for smooth functioning of the industrial units.
Despite repeated attempts, no official of the industries department could be reached for comments.
Published in The Express Tribune, September 11th, 2012.
By Web Desk - Published: September 11, 2012
Chief justice says matter is sub-judice, which is why he cannot meet delegation.
Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry on Tuesday refused to meet the UN delegation investigating the issue of enforced disappearances, saying that the matter is sub-judice, Express News reported.
The team arrived in Pakistan Monday on a 10-day mission to investigate the missing persons issue.
The team’s arrival sparked a debate during a National Assembly on Monday and the parliamentarians dubbed the fact-finding exercise a ‘threat to the country’s sovereignty.’
During their 10-day mission, the team will tour all provincial headquarters, meeting political leaders, government officials, civil society organisations and human rights activists to gather information on cases of enforced disappearances in the country.
The experts will analyse and review measures adopted by Pakistan to eradicate the practice, including issues related to truth, justice and reparation for victims
By Our Correspondent - Published: September 10, 2012
Ministerial team to study possibility of improved cooperation between Moscow and Islamabad. DESIGN: ESSA MALIK
ISLAMABAD: The largest-ever ministerial delegation from Russia flew into Pakistan on Sunday to study prospects of improving trade ties between the two countries ahead of a trip by President Vladimir Putin.
The warming up between the former bitter rivals of the Cold War-era indicates new alignments in the world’s most strategic region.
The 30-member Russian delegation will attend a meeting of the joint inter-governmental commission, which is scheduled to open on Monday morning.
In recent years, Pakistan and Russia have decided to bury their Cold War differences and open a new chapter in their frosty relationship. Accordingly, the two countries have planned high-level exchanges.
President Vladimir Putin will visit Pakistan this October at the invitation of his Pakistani counterpart Asif Ali Zardari. And ahead of his trip, Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is scheduled to visit Moscow this month.
About the visit of Russia’s ministerial delegation and Gen Kayani’s planned trip, an official from the Foreign Office told The Express Tribune that these were part of preparations for President Putin’s tour.
In its meetings with Pakistani officials, the Russian delegation will study the possibility of improving cooperation between the two countries in the fields of energy, trade, defence and technology.
Published in The Express Tribune, September 10th, 2012.
By Ejaz Haider - Published: September 11, 2012
SDPI summit brings together largest gathering of experts in SA to give policy input in multiple areas.
The writer is a senior journalist and has held several editorial positions, including most recently at The Friday Times. He was a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution and is currently senior adviser, outreach, at the Sustainable Development Policy Institute
The three-day 5th South Asia Economic Summit, convened by the Sustainable Development Policy Institute (SDPI) which opened in Islamabad yesterday (September 11), could not have come at a more appropriate time. Note that the operative word is ‘appropriate’, not ‘propitious’, because the times are unpropitious and projections suggest that economic growth in the region will be on the “decline at least for the next two quarters”.
This is just one factor and linked to other developments that go beyond the region but which have already begun impacting South Asia and its economies negatively.
The SDPI-convened summit identifies at least three other broad trends:
First, the effects of the global financial crisis are likely to linger on longer than was originally projected. “This,” as the SDPI concept note for the conference argues, “has been validated by the eurozone crisis that has already started to impact South Asia.” The second factor relates to the 17th Conference of the Parties of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change held at Durban. This is being viewed as an important step towards combating global climate change. Third, there is growing awareness that regional development is crucial to combating the negative global trends and the region’s future depends on economic cooperation. This realisation has already set in and the 17th Saarc Summit, which was held in the Maldives in November last year, witnessed the signing of some important agreements between member states.
An additional factor relates to the normalisation process between India and Pakistan, the two big players within Saarc. For long, adversarial relations between the two — manifested by hot wars, low-intensity conflicts and, at best of times, a cold peace — have held regional cooperation and development hostage. Two positive developments have the potential to change that: after the post-Mumbai freeze, India has come round to accepting the fact that disengagement does not make a sound policy and it needs to resume the composite dialogue with Pakistan; two, Pakistan has come round to the view that it needs to fast-track economic ties with India — trade and investment — without compromising its position on disputes such as Kashmir, Siachen and Sir Creek etcetera but not making them a precondition for economic cooperation.
This change is begotten of a shift in Pakistan’s foreign policy, which assigns top value to improving relations with all the neighbours within the region and beyond. Internally, this change is related to another significant development: the country’s foreign policy, which had taken a backseat to its security policy, is emerging as the arbiter of the security policy rather than the other way round. Externally, it is linked to deteriorating relations with the United States which have necessitated diversifying and gaining more state adherents for Pakistan’s position on the Afghan conflict and its resolution.
The recent visit to Pakistan of India’s External Affairs Minister SM Krishna and the signing of agreements on a new visa regime and cultural and other exchanges manifests this new trend. To be precise, nothing substantial has happened as far as the disputes are concerned; the progress made by the two sides on Kashmir, as also on Sir Creek, between 2004 and 2007 hasn’t reached fruition. On Siachen, India has hardened its position, calling for extending and delineating the line of control from NJ9842. The assumption is that Siachen is not a disputed area and once the line has been demarcated and delineated, both sides will be free to do what they please on their side of the line. The problem with this approach is that the conflict relates to which direction the line may be extended to — and that persists. That said, Pakistan, in keeping with its policy shift, is striving to normalise with India. Its focus on trade and investment is an indication of that engagement despite other problems, including India’s actions in Afghanistan.
The SDPI summit, which brings together the largest gathering of experts from the region, is therefore an excellent effort to give policy input in multiple areas: sustainable development; climate change; regional energy corridors; food security; trade; water crisis; agriculture; regional transport corridors, communications, etc.
The summit offers an extensive agenda with an eye on the fact that the eurozone crisis has already hit the economies of South Asia, multiplying problems and throwing up a myriad of challenges for governments in the region: “India and Bangladesh have officially reported the status on cancelled export orders. Pakistan fears that migrant workers in the EU may be laid off in big numbers, which in turn, may result in a decline in future remittance inflows. Afghanistan has indicated that aid flows from EU may be slashed on account of already high budget deficits being faced by leading member states, including France, Italy, and Spain.”
The situation offers challenges that cannot be tackled by individual states and governments. Equally, the situation offers the prospect of formulating cooperative policies and strategies, which can bring the South Asian states together and detoxify them by creating interdependencies. Some developments already indicate a positive trend. The 17th Saarc Summit saw the signing of several agreements like the Saarc agreement on Rapid Response to Natural Disasters, agreement on Multilateral Arrangement on Recognition of Conformity Assessment, the Saarc Seed Bank Agreement and the agreement on Implementation of Regional Standards.
Much work still needs to be done. It is a good time for think-tanks and policy communities in the various states to give their inputs to the governments to ensure that there is substantive movement in the areas of concern. The challenges also offer opportunities and this is what the 5th South Asia Economic Summit aims to highlight. However, policy input needs to become both relevant and tenable. And that, ultimately, is a function of political will. Pakistan’s commitment to this cooperation is indicated by the fact that the summit’s final plenary will be addressed by the foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, on September 13.
Best suited she is to close the summit because she brings her understanding of economic affairs to bear on her remit as the foreign minister.
Published in The Express Tribune, September 12th, 2012.
By Our Correspondent - Published: September 11, 2012
Petition had prayed for ban on terms such as 'My Lord' for judges of superior courts and bowing in front of them. PHOTO: FILE
LAHORE: A Lahore High Court (LHC) judge has decided that the decorum and usage of titles and bowing before judges while addressing them, as instituted by the British within the courts to distinguish the jurors from the lawyers and those standing in their respective boxes, are a tradition that need to be maintained.
Justice Nasir Saeed Sheikh of the LHC had on September 6 dismissed a writ petition seeking a ban on the usage of terms such as “My Lord” and “Your Lordship” for addressing judges of superior courts. The short order of decision reserved on September 6, was released on Tuesday.
The petition had been filed by senior lawyer AK Dogar who prayed to the court for the ban on use terms such as “My Lord” for judges of superior courts and the tradition of bowing before them during court proceedings. He contended that in 1980, a presidential order was promulgated by the then president of Pakistan in pursuance of a meeting attended by the chief justices of the superior courts and a decision was taken in the light of the views of Bar Associations on how to address judges of the superior courts.
According to the presidential order, also printed in PLD 1981 Central statute 231, “the use of the expressions ‘my lord’ and ‘your lordship’ and the like, in relation to a judge shall be discontinued and he shall only be addressed as ‘sir’ or ‘janab-e-wala’ or ‘janab-e-aali’ or referred to in judgements, correspondence or other instruments as “Mr Justice” so and so or the like.”
The petitioner had argued that the usage of the terms carried deep within it an element of slave-mentality in such terms which prompts us to follow the line of our erstwhile rulers, and the expression “My Lord” is only meant for “Allah”.
He had prayed for directions to federal and provincial governments, Pakistan Bar Council, Punjab Bar Council, Lahore High Court Bar Association and Lahore Bar Association to implement the presidential order restraining the lawyers from using title of “My Lord” for judges and bowing in front of them.
By Jyoti Malhotra - Published: September 11, 2012
The new visa regime enables discussion about what Indo-Pak relationship is really about.
The writer is a consultant and a freelance writer based in New Delhi, where she writes for Business Standard and blogs for The Times of India.
Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar stole the show last week as she stood next to India’s Foreign Minister SM Krishna at a press briefing towards the end of Krishna’s visit to Pakistan. Never has the transformation from a glamorous ‘goongi gudiya’ — as she was widely described during her visit to New Delhi last year — to a woman and leader of passion and conviction been more surprising or creditable in the recent history of India-Pakistan relations.
Khar’s main argument during that press briefing was about the need for India and Pakistan to move on from the past and forge a brand new future, and was clearly meant to send the message that India should not link progress on the rest of the relationship to progress on investigating and finding the culprits responsible for the Mumbai attacks.
So here’s the counterargument: if both countries should, indeed, move on, does this mean that Pakistan is willing to forget the Kashmir dispute and accept that the Line of Control is really an international border? That India and Pakistan must keep their respective parts of the states that they control and not yearn for the other? That Pakistan must accept the current status quo on Siachen and Sir Creek? If that is what Khar was trying to say, then it is truly a spectacular turnaround from the Pakistani establishment.
But, of course, we all know that Khar’s “moving on” was really limited to India dropping its insistence on movement on the Mumbai attacks. In what may account for one of the more insensitive moments of the recent Krishna visit, Khar is believed to have told an Indian TV channel the following: if you can’t forget Mumbai, Pakistan can’t forget its 1971 humiliation at the hands of India.
Pakistanis have often argued that Indians don’t understand the enormity of their own war against terrorists and ongoing ethnic conflict — the war against the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan in the northwest, Shia-Sunni killings, as well as those between political parties in Karachi in particular — and that Indians must stop harping about their pain of the one attack in Mumbai.
There is a clear answer to this: the terror inside Pakistan is not sponsored by India. Nobody in Mumbai asked anyone in Karachi or elsewhere to climb into a boat and set sail for Mumbai with sten guns.
My friend and fellow The Express Tribune columnist Ejaz Haider had another interesting thesis that I hadn’t heard before or — more to the point — hadn’t wanted to hear before. According to him, the Indian army was known to conduct false flag marches in (Indian) Kashmir, meaning they had killed scores of Indian — read, Muslim — civilians in Kashmir under the guise of offering protection to them.
What did this have to do with Mumbai, I asked Mr Haider? Was he implying that the Indian security forces — the army, paramilitary or the police — could have turned upon its own people in Mumbai? That could be one possibility in a range of several possibilities, he replied.
Khar’s forceful passion at the press briefing notwithstanding, the penny seems to have finally dropped in my own head: a section of the Pakistani intelligentsia believes the terror attack against Mumbai was just retribution — for 1971, for Balochistan, for Karachi, and anything else it believes India is responsible for.
That is why the opening up of the visa regime is so important: ordinary Indians and ordinary Pakistanis will get a chance to meet each other and discuss what their relationship is really about and whether they really want to forge one. Indians visiting Pakistan are more than often accosted with the unimaginable generosity of ordinary Pakistanis: aap hamaare mehmaan hain, hum dil ki gehraai se kehna chaahte hain hum kitne khush hain aap logon ko yahan dekh kar.
See how this contrasts with the state’s commentary? The question is, which is the real Pakistan?
Published in The Express Tribune, September 12th, 2012.