India-US News and Discussion

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 26 Nov 2009 07:57

KaranR wrote: I find nothing[racist] wrong with the photos!

That is because the search company found a "legitimate" reason to remove the website carrying the image from its index. However the image might show up again if it gets hosted somewhere else and lots of people link to it.

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 26 Nov 2009 08:07

One observation in the MKB article keeps coming back to me -

Manmohan is ahead of most Indians in realizing the country's inherent strength. As he put it:
Economic relationships are the bedrock on which social, cultural and political relationships are built. A strategic relationship that is not underpinned by a strong economic relationship is unlikely to prosper. On the other hand, a web of economic relationships intensifies other business-to-business and people-to-people contacts, promoting a deeper and better understanding ... That is the kind of relationship we wish to see with this great country, the United States.

If we contrast the relationship with Russia the point comes through clearly. On strategic issues we have so much in agreement with them. (I remember a Russian Ambassador correcting the description of Indian and Russian assessments by an Indian diplomat - the Indian diplomat used ther term similar and the Ambassador corrected it to identical!) There is a very strong defence relationship. But very limited economic relationship. Unless this is sytematically worked upon, we will end up having one friend / ally / partner less. A big push in this regard can help us a lot in the long run!

On the other side, it is probably better to hasten slowly in the Indo- American political relationship? Till a better environment emerges? That way at least we will not have to give up much!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 26 Nov 2009 08:20

pandyan wrote:CNN is reporting that a couple gate crashed yesterday's party at white house.
Top security event was breached.....

Some social-climbing couple?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/us/po ... shers.html

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Nov 2009 08:32

Here is their facebook page with photos:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... 1907941877

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 26 Nov 2009 08:48

Who was the couple? Gilani and wife.

Pakistani Ambassador and his babe du jour.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Nov 2009 08:57

This guy is not the pakistani ambassador!

These guys are a publicity seeking couple akin to that boy-in-the-flying-saucer kind.
Their pics with Joe Biden and the other celebrities are the most poignant.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Nov 2009 09:54

Gagan wrote:India already has troops on the ground in Afghanistan. But these are "paramilitary" troops (From CISF I think) for protection of the engineers at the road and infrastructure projects being undertaken there.

mostly ITBP.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 26 Nov 2009 10:16

Gagan:

This guy is not the pakistani ambassador!

NO. Read the second part of your own comment..

These guys are a publicity seeking couple akin to that boy-in-the-flying-saucer kind. Their pics with Joe Biden and the other celebrities are the most poignant.

Definitely , as N^3 said Pakistani ambassador..

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 26 Nov 2009 10:22

WaPo: Indian-Americans Bumped from Invite List

Gotta let those staffers eat too, I suppose.

"I'd assume I was invited because New York City has a quarter of a million of Indians living in it," Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters in New York. He added that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh lived in Queens for decades. "You have to ask the president why he invited me, but I assume it was so that I could represent those people."

Since when?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 26 Nov 2009 10:30

This is news to me. When did mMS live in queens? What was he upto?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 26 Nov 2009 10:37

‘British tipped off US about Headley’

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Nov 2009 16:44

The gatecrashers! Imagine the carnage if if they were Islamic terrorists equuipped with poison.

President Barack Obama's state dinner at the White House gatecrashed
The US Secret Service is investigating how an uninvited couple was admitted to President Barack Obama's White House state dinner, penetrating layers of security.

Published: 9:59AM GMT 26 Nov 2009

Previous1 of 3 ImagesNext Tareq Salahi (right) and Michaele Salahi arriving for the State Dinner Photo: AFP.GETTY IMAGES
(from left) Tareq Salahi, Vice President Joe Biden and Michaele Salahi Photo: AP
Michaele Salahi poses with 3 White House guards Photo: AP
The agency charged with protecting the US President and other high-level officials is conducting a comprehensive review of the security breach on Tuesday at the dinner in honour of the Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh.

The Washington Post first reported that a Tareq and Michaele Salahi, who live in Virginia, were not on the official guest list but managed to crash the White House party.

Related Articles
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We can change the world, Obama tells Indian PM It said they did not have seats allocated in the South Lawn tent where the dinner was held and the White House has asked the Secret Service for a full review of what happened.

"An initial finding has identified one of our checkpoints that did not follow proper procedures to ensure that the two individuals that were named in the Washington Post story were on the invited guests list," said Edwin Donovan, a US Secret Service spokesman.

But he said no-one at the dinner was ever in danger.

"I want to stress that these individuals went through magnetometers [metal detectors] and several other levels of screenings just as all of the guests attending the dinner did," he said.

"We don't rely on just magnetometers or the level of screenings," he added. "That's why we have the agents with our protectees at all times."

The couple, described as aspiring reality TV stars and polo-playing socialites, were photographed arriving at the White House.

According to the Washington Post, the uninvited guests were in the same room as Barack and Michelle Obama and Mr Singh, but it is not known if they met.

A dozen pictures posted on Facebook appear to show the couple posing with dinner guests including Vice President Joe Biden, Washington Mayor Adrian Fenty, CBS News anchor Katie Couric, and White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ashed.html

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Nov 2009 17:28

..vist a "damp squib".

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 550800.htm

"The result is Dr Singh is coming home with nothing more than a gun salute, a state dinner and the joint statement."

PM’s visit to US: A damp squib

The bland and inane joint statement at the end of the Prime Minister’s visit to the US makes it amply clear that India does not count as much as Pakistan and China do in the US’ strategic and geopolitical calculations.

B. S. Raghavan

The nebulous platitudes with which the joint statement of the US President, Mr Barack Obama, and India’s Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, is replete would have come as a jolt to even the most ardent aficionados of India and the US. A visit that was played up to the hilt as presaging something unforgettable and momentous has turned out to be a damp squib.

Even the media meet which was hailed by some ebullient Indian TV anchors as ‘historic’ fell flat. For one thing, by the time the two leaders put in their appearance 30 minutes late, everyone was on edge and scarcely in a receptive mood. For another, there was very little in what both leaders said that was newsworthy; it was all familiar ground covered in familiar phraseology.

After Mr Obama gave a précis of the joint statement and Dr Singh echoed him, an American correspondent asked a question on the US stand on Afghanistan, to which Mr Obama gave a rambling reply. This was followed by an Indian correspondent asking for Mr Obama’s reaction to the misuse by Pakistan of US aid and equipment and its support to terrorist groups, and for Dr Singh’s opinion of the outcome of the visit.

Mr Obama cleverly ducked the question, while Dr Singh said that he was completely satisfied with the outcome. Then to the surprise of the viewers, and perhaps those present, Mr Obama brusquely terminated the conference, without obtaining so much as a notional consent from the Prime Minister of a country which, a short while earlier, he had extolled as a rising, responsible — nay, indispensable — global power!

Inane and insipid

Thus, all that Dr Singh has got to show for all the razzmatazz surrounding the visit is the mixed bag, if not mishmash, of a joint statement, in which both leaders have unburdened themselves of jejune generalities on enhancing global security, countering terrorism, ensuring a sustainable global development, building a clean energy future, stimulating global economic revival, educating and empowering future generations, protecting the health of the people of both countries, and working for more effective global cooperation.

How has Dr Singh, when the contents of the statement are so very inane and insipid, expressed his complete satisfaction about his discussions with Mr Obama? Is one to assume that although the language and style of the contents of the statement are bland and diplomatic, India had sought, and the US had given, firm and unresilable commitments on issues to which India attaches vital importance?

Such commitments are worthless and unenforceable, unless backed by a written secret protocol, or at least an exchange of official communications specifying the areas and the nature and extent of such commitments. These are devious arrangements which are only mentioned to be dismissed as being out of character in the case of two democracies which are also open societies and whose leaders are expected by their respective citizenries to be accountable and transparent in whatever they do.

Open secret

The source and basis of Dr Singh’s satisfaction, in this light, is puzzling, especially because he has been unable to get out of Mr Obama any explicit support for any of the courses of action that have a bearing on matters crucial to India’s national interest. At the very top of its priorities is bringing pressure on Pakistan to conform to international norms of civilised conduct, without being, both literally and metaphorically, a loose cannon in the region.

The US knows, and one would think poorly of its discernment if it did not, that Pakistan is providing clandestine moral and material sustenance and facilities and sanctuaries for training and operations, to various terrorist groups on its soil while pretending to abide by the US diktats to exterminate them.

It is an open secret that a good part of the huge aid packages that the US is blindly gifting away to Pakistan is being misused to shore up military hardware for strengthening offensive capabilities against India. Pakistan is also in the habit of inventing all manner of excuses to spike the investigation, trial and punishment of notorious terrorists involved in jihadi attacks in a number of places in India and its establishments in Afghanistan.

The Singh-Obama summit was an ideal opportunity to prevail upon the US to join India in conveying zero tolerance for further provocations and machinations from Pakistan. Instead, the joint statement carefully avoids any reference to Pakistan when it merely condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and declares that there could be no justification for terrorism anywhere.

It, no doubt, underscores the absolute imperative to bring to justice the perpetrators of the Mumbai 26/11 attack and the need for taking “resolute and credible steps to eliminate safe havens and sanctuaries that provide shelter to terrorists and their activities”. From the omnibus language used, though, these happenings may be in Mars or Uranus, and not on planet Earth, least of all in Pakistan!

Let us come to the nuclear deal. It did not require the Prime Minister to travel all the way on a state visit for him and the US President just to reiterate their intention to realise the full potential of the deal through the implementation of its provisions and to agree to expedite US firms’ participation in the implementation of this agreement.

Verbal candy floss

It is a redundant statement as it would have been foolish to go in for the deal if there was no intention to realise its full potential by implementing its provisions!

The joint statement keeps the people of India in the dark on the reasons why it is silent about India’s real concerns or about the way the Obama Administration has been dragging its feet in regard to making available sensitive (dual-use) technologies to India, enabling it to start reprocessing activities. The omission makes a mockery of all the tremendous build-up given to the visit.

The remaining parts of the statement are like verbal candy floss, fluffy and puffed up to look at, but containing little substance. Any moderately intelligent person will be able to put together the same anasthetising sentences if the subject heads are mentioned to him!

Goody-goody

The result is Dr Singh is coming home with nothing more than a gun salute, a state dinner and the joint statement. Truth to tell, in the present context, India does not count as much as Pakistan and China do in the strategic and geopolitical calculations of the US. The reason is simple: It does not have, and it cannot do, anything that will hit the US where it hurts.

The effect of Pokhran II, which made the US (and the world) sit up and take notice, has worn off and India is now seen as a goody-goody nation which is easy to keep in good humour by tickling it behind the ears with descriptions such as ‘global power,’ ‘indispensable,’ ‘shared values,’ ‘largest democracy’ and the like.

Whereas if Pakistan malingers or China sells off its dollar holdings, the US will be in dire straits. It is time India boldly chalks out its own path, regardless of what others say or think as befitting the big power that everybody proclaims it to be.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Nov 2009 17:43

Why Thank You, Your Lordship

Amrikhani partisan rancor seeming to spill over onto phoren policy territory (terrortory?)

President Obama welcomed Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to the White House with words that have inspired snickers in New Delhi:

"Yours is the first official state visit of my presidency, its fitting that you and India be so recognised," 48-year-old Obama told the 77-year-old Indian leader.

The general reaction in India has been: Who the heck does this guy think he is? Note to the Great Diplomat: When you do a head of state an honor, you don't remind him, in public, of the fact that you have done him an honor, particularly in self-aggrandizing terms of this sort.

I cannot imagine Dr. Singh responding to Obama: "I am the first state visitor of your presidency, and it is fitting that you and the United States be so recognized. Especially considering that I have the guts to stand up to the Chinese from time to time, while you're basically groveling and praying that they don't decide to divest their dollar holdings. Did I mention our 7 percent economic growth, compared to your ... 3 percent, 3.5? Now, what did you want to talk about?"

Again, like I said,

coz I doubt MMS or anybody in Dilli was thinking like the Chownese would have.

The comments are hilarious too...

I am without speech. I don't think he can help himself. BTW, did he bow?

It needs to be noted also that the state dinner “honoring” India was not held in the traditional State Dining Room, where other leaders get to go, but IN A TENT ON THE SOUTH LAWN.

Well, the Messiah is a Nobel Peace Prize winner who was nominated just one month after taking office. It should be everyone’s honor just to be in his presence.

No wonder India is buying more gold.

Imagine the diplomatic cables being fired back home about about the stupidity and narcissism of the current US president.

Take it light, this is more partisan anti-obamaoism than anything to do with Yindia.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Nov 2009 18:26

Where are the comments? Can't see them

Found them,
Link

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Nov 2009 21:12

The NRO and Hindu articles are correct. There was nothing in this state visit that couldn't have been handled by a visit from the India's ambassador and an MEA official. The MMS govt. placed high value on the visit with NSA MK Narayanan travelling with the PM. You would think that at least for such a high profile visit, Ombaba would have brought to the table some proposal and get India to compromise on some issue like the Doha negotiations. Ultimately, Ombaba has harmed US interests because no one except the lifafas will want to accommodate the US viewpoint any longer. India will think long and hard about any major purchases from the US, including weapons systems, since the Ombaba administration won't even talk about watering down sanction related laws. The sooner the Ombaba administration goes, the better.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 26 Nov 2009 23:02

What's wrong with a State visit where there are no public declarations of "breakthroughs"? It's not as if the US and India are at war with each other, hey? The best State Visits are ones where there is just a "chai-biskoot", "frank exchange of views" etc?

5 days ago ppl (incl me) were dreading all the towels thrown in the Joint Ishtatement, and the resulting 3 months of

DupleeCity Sharm Sharm

Ro-Dho thread. Now ppl are

that there was NO bowing and dhimmifying.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 26 Nov 2009 23:12

enqyoob wrote:5 days ago ppl (incl me) were dreading all the towels thrown in the Joint Ishtatement, and the resulting 3 months of
DupleeCity Sharm Sharm
Ro-Dho thread. Now ppl are that there was NO bowing and dhimmifying.

Hey dont look now, but here is one of the rare alignment of planets where we have agreed!!

S.Gautam · Post by **S.Gautam** » 26 Nov 2009 23:17

Mort Walker wrote:The NRO and Hindu articles are correct. There was nothing in this state visit that couldn't have been handled by a visit from the India's ambassador and an MEA official. The MMS govt. placed high value on the visit with NSA MK Narayanan travelling with the PM. You would think that at least for such a high profile visit, Ombaba would have brought to the table some proposal and get India to compromise on some issue like the Doha negotiations. Ultimately, Ombaba has harmed US interests because no one except the lifafas will want to accommodate the US viewpoint any longer. India will think long and hard about any major purchases from the US, including weapons systems, since the Ombaba administration won't even talk about watering down sanction related laws. The sooner the Ombaba administration goes, the better.

Obama is not clever enough to get concessions out of India because he's too absorbed in the PR aspect (as always). But isn't this a good thing? Why should he go?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 26 Nov 2009 23:31

Philip wrote:..vist a "damp squib".

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 550800.htm

"The result is Dr Singh is coming home with nothing more than a gun salute, a state dinner and the joint statement."

Chindu, as usual, gets it wrong.

I view as a success as no self goals were scored.

edit: saw enqyoob's post.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Nov 2009 23:46

KaranR wrote:
Singha wrote:google says it will not remove this racist image of michelle obama that comes 1st in the image search.

http://images.google.co.in/images?hl=en ... 2&aq=f&oq=

I find nothing[racist] wrong with the photos!

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 27 Nov 2009 00:25

decline to meet Dalai Lama + 8.6 billion dollars of American taxpayer money to pakis --> celebrate Diwali --> Indian lobby happy.
sell out Indian and American interests while visiting china --> state dinner --> Indian lobby happy.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 27 Nov 2009 01:18

New somewhat tough stance by Manmohan Singh on climate change negotiations indicates that there is some amount of realignment in the offing. Looks like it is now certain and conveyed to Manmohan Singh that US is moving out of Afganistan and India will be left to fend on its own. There is not much India can do with Sonia controlled congress firmly in power. Obviously she will not take any open stance but will make sure that she has balls of Indian politicians in her hand to squeeze if they try to realign Indian policies with other countries like China or Iran that US does not like. In a nutshell India will be under lot of pressure but will have far less options to maneuver.

Anyway I am not worried much. Obama invited Singh for first state dinner so I will keep myself busy telling others how that event does not mean much and should be downplayed all the while discussing every minute details about the state dinner.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 27 Nov 2009 01:47

KaranR wrote:
Singha wrote:google says it will not remove this racist image of michelle obama that comes 1st in the image search.
I find nothing[racist] wrong with the photos!

http://mashable.com/2009/11/24/michelle-obama-image/

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 27 Nov 2009 02:23

The Second Wave of the Financial Tsunami
Matthias Chang

http://futurefastforward.com/feature-articles/2820

The End Game

The present fallout can be summarized in simple terms:
Should a bankrupt (the US) be allowed to use money created out of thin air to pay for goods produced with the sweat and tears of hardworking citizens of exporting countries? Adding insult to injury, the same dollars are now purchasing a lot less than before. So what is the use of being paid in a currency that is losing rapidly its value?

On the other hand, the US is telling the whole world, especially the Chinese that if they are not happy with the status quo, there is nothing to stop them from selling to the other countries and accepting their currencies. But if they want to sell to the mighty USA, they must accept US toilet paper reserve currency and its right to create monies out of thin air!

This is the ultimate poker game and whosoever blinks first loses and will suffer irreparable financial consequences. But who has the winning hand?

The US does not have the winning hand. Neither has China the winning hand.

This state of affairs cannot continue for long, for whatever cards the US or China may be contemplating to throw at the table to gain strategic advantage, any short term gains will be pyrrhic, for it will not be able to address the underlying antagonistic contradictions.

When the survival of the system is dependent on the availability of credit (i.e. accumulating more debts) it is only a matter of time before both the debtor and creditor come to the inevitable conclusion that the debt will never be paid. And unless the creditor is willing to write off the debt, resorting to drastic means to collect the outstanding debt is inevitable.

It would be naïve to think that the US would quietly allow itself to be foreclosed! When we reach that stage, war will be inevitable. It will be the US-UK-Israel Axis against the rest of the world.

{AND this one takes the cake}

I have talked to so many economists and when asked what is the crux of the present financial problem, they all respond in unison, “it is the global imbalances… the West consumes too much while the East saves too much and consumes not enough”.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 27 Nov 2009 04:32

I don't think this visit is a damp squib at all. If anything, it was quite path breaking. Formal state visits to US (as opposed to meetings during events like UNGA sessions) tended to have a common refrain - a powerful square-jawed US leader and a reserved Indian one, a schedule organized and perfectly executed by the US side, advice on Cashmere, and assorted canned platitudes.

This time, I cannot help but to see a massive change in the dynamic between the leaders and countries. The US no longer has the aura of an infallible hyperpower. Its leader comes across as slightly diffident, and the Nobel was perhaps timely in increasing the burden of expectation. The personal dynamic gave MMS a boost, as the senior and more accomplished one, something Obama appeared to be aware of. The visit itself, instead of following the old template, centred on some rather badly executed dinner party, with gatecrashers included. I thought MMS's statements were thoughtful and uncompromisingly articulated our positions; I don't care about alleged fluency or lack thereof.

I view this as a good first step towards asserting a different dynamic in ties between the countries, which reflects the evolving balance between the countries. Successive state visits ought to build on this. Take the long view. To supercede other powers a few decades hence requires active measures to modify the dynamic between the countries today.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Nov 2009 04:33

negi · Post by **negi** » 27 Nov 2009 04:41

Suraj wrote:I thought MMS's statements were thoughtful and uncompromisingly articulated our positions

This is the single most important achievement (if I may call it so) as far as 'visible' positives of the PM's visit are concerned. Imho MMS was assertive and minced no words when he brought up issues of 'Jingo' interest i.e. 'dual use items' , 'terrorism' , 're-iterated Unkil's obligations with regards to the N-deal' and lastly a clear statement on 'no redrawing of borders with TSP'.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 27 Nov 2009 08:31

For key defence purchases from US, India must walk Obama sweet talk

...
It’s learnt that US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has conveyed to the Prime Minister that it will be difficult for the US to provide related and ancillary equipment for any military platform it sells to India unless it signs the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and another agreement related to exchange of satellite data. The Indian side is said to have responded that the matter is under New Delhi’s consideration.

The CISMOA is already pending with the Defence Ministry and had been put on hold by the first UPA government because of Left pressure. But there has been no review of that decision after the second UPA government took over. In fact, the latest line from the Defence Ministry is that the government could consider developing some of these equipment indigenously.

...
...
Given that India is pushing the US to ease controls on selling high technology equipment to India and the PM even raised this with Obama, the US side wants India to also facilitate sale of defence equipment as only that will ensure the military edge New Delhi hopes to acquire through procurement of US military items
...
...
In fact, sources said, the issue came up when India bought Boeing business jets for Indian VVIPs. At that time, even the End-User Monitoring Agreement had not been signed and so a special End-user and CISMOA arrangement was reached only for that purchase. But the US does not want to follow a case-by-case approach and is pushing for a template just like the End-User Monitoring Agreement which was cleared by the government but did rake up considerable political controversy.
...
..
The US is also pushing hard because this may come in the way of the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft deal where the phased array radar (AESA) is being promised.
...

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 27 Nov 2009 08:53

There will be no high end technology transfer no matter how much the relations are improved between the two countries. Nobody really wants yet another competitor in arms sale. When Indian defense establishment was doing a really good job of aggressively marketing their products all of a sudden started fighter plane accidents at a very accelerated rate. It was blamed on many different things but one thing was certainly achieved and that is tarnishing the reputation of defense establishment. Obviously any country would be hesitant to deal with the supplier whose planes are falling off the sky at an alarming rate. It impacted the entire range of weapons due to image problem those accidents created.

That really makes me wonder how useful all these weapons bought from outside will really be when India has to defy a large number of manufacturing countries and go to a war. Missiles developed internally will be the only predictable choice.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Nov 2009 09:24

Re: The video clips on the party crashers posted by Acharya.

What kind of security were the American’s providing our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh if people could gate crash the State Dinner being held for him

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 27 Nov 2009 11:29

arun wrote:Re: The video clips on the party crashers posted by Acharya.

What kind of security were the American’s providing our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh if people could gate crash the State Dinner being held for him

If a bimbo and her pimp can elude white house security and that too at a time when security should have been extra tight, it only means that the secret service is being run by jokers who are more interested in showing off their fashion suits than security skills. Given that these people, 1) got in, 2) had their name announced at entry, 3) stayed at the event for a while, 4) were able to leave as easily as they came in and that too before the dinner began, and 5) did this completely undetected until they posted their pictures online points to systemic failures rather than a single point of failure (at the spot where identity is checked) as media is claiming.

Entering an establishment using a disguise or false pretext is the oldest trick in the world and I would have thought that there would have been multiple points where identity of a person would be checked, if not physically then through cameras in a central control room.

Even bigger joke is that these people may actually get away with it without any prosecution. I am wondering where PM's usual security men are during such events.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 27 Nov 2009 11:40

Imagine a situation where a couple of non-invited folks entered the Indian Parliament when Obama was addressing a joint-session of the LS and RS. Whether they were screened for security or not, imagine the hue and cry nyt or wapo or wsj or other amrikan dork media would have raised about us third worlders and casteists non-pareil. And why is ddm so coy about this issue, fear that furrin investment would be stopped?!

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Nov 2009 12:19

After watching the body language at the dinner, I got the distinct impression, as did others on BR, that something was amiss. Obama was stony faced & MMS was almost smug in his graciousness. Based on the reports leading up to the dinner, my guess is that MMS told Obama off about the Beijing statement, reiterated India's historical right to "interfere" in Fak-Ap, bluntly shut down any future crap about "Kashmir compromises" and dug his heels in on every other issue, leaving Obama with a wooden face. He had also just publicly advised the US President to not leave Afghanistan. That was a shocker, at least to me, and totally out of character for MMS. But I wonder what else he told him about Afghanistan because right after that, Obama leaked that he was going to send 35k troops to Fak-Ap, a decision he said he would take next week.

Why some of our people are wailing about "coming home with nothing" I have no idea. Did we go there with begging bowl in hand like the pakis?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Nov 2009 12:26

(Crossposted from the Paki thread.)

I've got a curious feeling about two events,that have taken place around the annniversary of the 26/11 outrage.The first,our good Doctor's trip to sup with Uncle O and the arrest in Pak of several alleged perpetrators of 26/11 based upon the arrest of Headley & co.

Starting backwards,the arrests in Pak appear surprising.Pak has stonewalled India for a whole year,actually protecting the guilty,chief offenders who are within the ISI.So it is safe to assume that the arrests were deliberately announced just before the world's eyes were focussed upon the first anniversary of the worst terror attack since 9/11,and the complicity of pak which had done bugg*r all to bring the guilty to book.So Pak carried out yet another tamasha of arresting these jehadis.This is mere camouflage,as there is overwhelming evidence as to the heart of the conspiracy.The US most probably knows exactly who were the masterminds,but is keeping silent,just as it did when its own subject,Daniel Pearl was butchered,the butchers known to the CIA but not disclosed for fear of opening up the entire US-Pak covert relationship.

Now,the arrests were made upon the info given,we are told by "Headley the deadly".The news of his arrest too appeared quite coincidentally a short while before the first anniversary of the dastardly deed and our good Doctor's state visit! One report actually says that British intelligence really tipped off the US about Headley the deadly .The "coincidence" is just too perfect.As Goldfinger famously told Bond,"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action. ..."
It is therefore obvious to the intelligent analyst that the entire drama of Headley the deadly,the paki arrests,etc., are merely a "tamasha",meant to deceive India and the global community that Pak is making genuine efforts at catching the culprits.The sad hard facts are that the US and Pak are deceiving India.Their chicanery is abominable and one day we might even find out that 26/11 was a joint operation between the CIA and the ISI!Truth as they say is stranger than fiction.

PS:Let's see what MMS and India have achieved from this trip? Apart from cheap wine and mediocre food,showing that Uncle O is out of his depth when it comes to entertaining foreign guests,that too in such a condescending manner,very little.
No agreement upon high-tech exports,no finalisation on N-deal hiccups,no guarantee on military sales to Pak not being misused against India,no action on bringing the 26/11 guilty in Pak to book...so just what was achieved? This skows that the entire event was a tamasha,meant to quieten India on the first anniversary of 26/11,the visit deliberately timed,to deflect our attention from the outrageous state of affairs that one year later,neither rent boy Pak or its chief patron,have done anything worthwhile to make amends for 26/11,planned and executed from its shores.In this sordid piece of dulicity and hypocrisy,the US is by default,as guilty of 26/11 as Pak is.With friends like the US,who needs enemies?

It is past time that our dear PM woke up to the fact that Uncle O is not India lover-boy Bush and that Pak is still Uncle Sam's best bedmate.You know a nation's character by the frinds it keeps...closest to its chest!

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Nov 2009 13:45

This is not 1963 where Nehru and Kennedy could go on chatting about the general state of world affairs at state visits with chai & biskoot. MMS and Ombaba have met twice prior to this and the Indian position was made clear to the US side at two G20 meetings held in the last several months. The security establishments on both sides are in contact given The Curious Case of Daood Gilani alias David Headley & Co. and other issues regarding 26/11.

There are several high profile issues between India and the US regarding trade, misuse of US funds for Pakistani terrorism, US export controls, arms sales and immigration policies. There are so many issues to iron out in so little time, especially when Ombaba's party has a majority in both houses, much of the outstanding issues can be addressed. This did not happen and what was seen was a discussion on peripheral issues such as a climate memo, food production, infectious disease control, the Fullbright-Nehru exchange student program . If MMS had time for chai & biskoot, which I believe he doesn't, then he would not have come with Montek Singh Ahluhwalia (Planning Commission Chairman) and MK Narayanan. At this time it was important for MMS to be in Mumbai from 26/11-29/11 - again this is very disappointing from MMS and the Kangress leadership, but I think MMS went to the US thinking that there would be some forward movement on the high-profile issues. Rather it was just a fancy dress party.

I wouldn't be so sure about MMS not allowing unkil's hand in the cookie jar. Ombaba did mention that MMS and India supports his Prauge commitment of a world free of nuclear weapons. Just what did MMS commit to exactly?

Even if Ombaba doesn't come to India, MMS and he will meet at the next G20 meeting June 2010 in Toronto, Canada. In any case Ombaba and family can visit India next year for chai-biskoot and a grand guided tour before being booted out of office in 2012.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Nov 2009 14:54

>>He had also just publicly advised the US President to not leave Afghanistan. That was a shocker, at least to me, and totally out of character for MMS.

Whoever was PM and visiting the US at this time would have said the same thing. The time is right. We are gradually slipping into assertion mode, not just reaction and neutral observation. This is a good thing for us, at this time. Definitely, such a transition will mean an increased complexity in our policy articulation, and situations will emerge that we are not entirely comfortable with - but we have the werewithal to deal with them. That is the calculation. Hence the transition. But it will be gradual. Don't expect the same sort of thing every week. We are normally averse to fixed positions. However, this is one which is clear-cut, and can be expected to remain so for the foreseeable future - say another couple of years.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Nov 2009 16:23

Victor wrote:He had also just publicly advised the US President to not leave Afghanistan. That was a shocker, at least to me, and totally out of character for MMS. But I wonder what else he told him about Afghanistan because right after that, Obama leaked that he was going to send 35k troops to Fak-Ap, a decision he said he would take next week.

Victor, the US decision to leave or even whittle down whatever operations are on-going would have the most dangerous security repercussions for India. No Indian PM can be oblivious to that. The fact that MMS had said that publicly means he is not sufficiently re-assured that Obama was taking or planning to take the right decision. He might have also told Obama about India's serious reservations about the US talking secretly to the Taliban.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Nov 2009 16:28

BIg Q here.From various posts and inferences,is Obama planning to outsource Afghanistan and the entire sub-continent to the Chinese? From his apparent servility to the mandarins of Zhongnanhai,it appears that he has abdicated his responsibility in part and offered a major role to China,whom the Yanquis have identified as the suzerain power of Asia.

And as for holding the state banquet in a "tent" and not indoors,why every American including Obama knows that "Indians" live in tents!

PS:Or did he feel that MMS was unworthy to sit at the high table?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Nov 2009 16:43

The Chinese would simply not touch Afghanistan with a barge pole. The US will have to clean up the mess that they created three decades back.