Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Feb 2010 16:41

durgesh wrote:Vacuum blast in Khyber kills 5. Link

Official says death toll leaps to 45 in blast in northwest Pakistan's tribal belt.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2010 16:51

arnab wrote:
Sanku wrote:There are no other words to describe it.

MMS as leader of opposition was agony about what the tests would do to economy -- eventually as it turned out all the real heavy lifiting for economy was done by the bum bursting govt which put the economy on its real Hindu rate of growth a sustained 10%, an economy which the next govt is living off by not moving its ass on any useful economic measures.
some incomprehensible set of statements on economy

arnab, I have no idea what you are trying to say there, if your statement is "by and large Indians have chosen to care for their material well being alone while being uncaring for other Indians and or overall value system and the elected Congress system is just giving them that"

Yes I agree, thats what I call selfishness and Dhimmitude. Indian elite have certainly been complicit in the poor handling of a whole variety of issues or security of all types.

I am fully with you that barring the minority of those who are on BRF and even some on BRF, are perfectly happy paying the price of blood of a whole number of people if their sense of well being is not disturbed.

What however can not be agreed to is
1) Repeated assertions that our capabilities are not enough to solve our problems.
2) Economy as it stands today is an issue in taking a militarist posture.

A cursory or a detailed look at history will show that both points are totally hollow, as is the mistaken sense of

"we are growing economically because of lack of any governance (including economic policy decision) action by GoI, as long as GoI decides to cower in dark holes and use inaction as action metaphor we are growing and lets not distrub the apple cart by actually, horror of horror, taking a decision and following it through"

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Feb 2010 16:51

The current spate of islamization of Pakistan began with Zia sowing the seeds in Pakistani society. It reached its peak with OBL and 911 when the abduls began to think they were invincible. They had challenged the mighty US, they thought Srinagar and Delhi was within reach too.

The US giving them a sound ass whupping has been a downer of sorts and I suppose it is not lost on the abduls that OBL decided to do a taqqiya and live to fight another day. That is to say, he decided not to be a martyr.

Are there signs that the current round of islamization is begining to wane? My belief is that if the Jihadis don't get to kill enough kafirs, they'll kill some munafiqs. That'll lead to further disillusionment. The likes of Jahil Hamid have had to be brought in by the ISI to try and bring the urban youth into its fold, and for the future concentrate on India as the enemy only.

If indeed the current round of islamization is on the wane, and it will take another decade or so to come down to baseline (there is no such thing as a non fundamentalist abdul), all secular democracies - Massa, India etc will have to ride this out. They are doing just that, alternating carrot and sticks by india, simultaneous carrots and sticks by massa to pakistan.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Feb 2010 17:00

SSridhar wrote: We will not be very wise in thinking that Pakistan can be ignored because we are growing economically and the widening divide will make Pakistan irrelevant. Pakistan has once again been rescued by its friends and will live to fight us for many years to come. Not only has it saved itself, but is making all the moves to become dominant and very relevant once again. This has been a recurrent pattern.

Pakistan must be made to commit harakiri. They are experts in harakiri anyways.Just this time we must make sure nobody stops them midway. I think we must make sure Pakistan realizes that any attack on international sports persons during any of those events will be a declaration of War. We must be prepared to strike Pakistan within moments of any terrorist attack during those sporting events. Good thing in one way for us is unlike during OP.Parakram we wont be influenced by India Inc to back off due to economic reasons. In fact, India Inc wants GOI to do everything to guarantee the safety of the event.The day wont be far when its the same India Inc wants the GOI to remove the western problem once and for all.26/11 was just a start. Money does many things!!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Feb 2010 17:01

This Profit Jahil Hamid character represents the mainstream ISI-Pakistan Army thought process of directing the energies of the urban youth towards India.

They are creating much hatred towards India, and building silly castles in the air - radio pakistan from new dehli and all that shit.

Very happily the good Profit Jahil has a skeleton in his cupboard - yusuf kazzab, the false prophet. And yusuf kazzab when he was in jail anointed Jahil Hamid as the new caliph of his movement. Profit Jahil knows that if he steps out of line, the ISI will raise the issue of yusuf kazzab. Also if Profit Jahil gets too prominent so as to wean away a significant percentage of youth away from the mullahs, again he may expect a backlash.

Can't wait for the day when Jahil-baba gets so big that he decides that critical mass has been reached for him to now come out in the open with his own agenda - being crowned the new Profit and leader of Pakistan - a sort of a Ayatolla or a Khalifa of Pakistan. This is Plan A.

Plan B seems to be that if the ISI cracks down, I almost expect him to say the words "Ab waqt aa gaya hai ki hum sub yeh faisla karein ki ab hamein alag hona hai." (The time has come for us to decide once and for all that we want to be seperate).

This is how new religions and new religious sects within existing religions are born. Profit Jahil Hamid is no fool and is probably playing for this. I say more rope to this bugger.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2010 17:04

Gagan; we have clear indications that Pakistani state and all its actors and constituents are on a asymptotically increasing curve of fundamentalism!!

It would be certainly a mistaken impression to hope that the problem will some how go away if we keep hiding in our rat hole long enough.

The most optimistic outlook in current situation is by Bji where is hopes that the resultant bloodshed which will happen due to the prevailing dhimmitude will finally force India into a robust response.

I not so sure, Indian dynamics are different, once thrown off its feet, sometimes India takes a long time in coming back, so if its thrown off its feet we may never recover.

The only hope is to form a muscular response now, before everything, including the economy goes down the drain, the elite mercantile class has to be not totally short sighted here ( a common failing of this class as seen in the US behavior when ever they went mercantile)

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 18 Feb 2010 17:16

Sanku wrote:[
What however can not be agreed to is
1) Repeated assertions that our capabilities are not enough to solve our problems.
2) Economy as it stands today is an issue in taking a militarist posture.

A cursory or a detailed look at history will show that both points are totally hollow, as is the mistaken sense of

"we are growing economically because of lack of any governance (including economic policy decision) action by GoI, as long as GoI decides to cower in dark holes and use inaction as action metaphor we are growing and lets not distrub the apple cart by actually, horror of horror, taking a decision and following it through"

Whether our capabilities are enough to solve our problems can only be ascertained by making a list of our problems. The know your india thread was a good start. TSP is one of our problems. Not the sole one nor the most significant one.

It is a strange paradox but an improved economy actually deters an overt military posture. TSP has much less to lose in an overt conflict. As an analogous example - Japan handles North Korea with kid gloves.

I agree with you that GOI ultimately needs to come to a consensus that one cannot negotiate with a rabid dog. Unfortunately that will take time and in the meanwhile people like SRK will keep creating strawmen like MNIK and tearing them down. So no point getting our BP up.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Feb 2010 17:19

There are indications that the abduls are fundamentalists, but the elite are still whiskey swilling, mujra enjoying chaudharies. In fact because of NRO cracking its whip, they are moving their ill gotten gains outside of Pakistan.

Again I wonder if a new Jihad is announced, the same fervor will get displayed and numbers will accumulate to join in. I may be wrong, but I feel that the peak has been approached.

The bottom line is that if the abduls don't get to kill kafirs, they'll take out munafiqs.

One story I would like to relate here: I met a pashtun from Peshawar in massa land two days after the Peshawar century. Literally with tears building up in his eyes and a bitter expression on his face he told me that people from outside are doing this. He of course meant the YYY, but because he is in massa land he can't say Y number 1 and because I am Indian he can't say Y number 3. But that bitter expression on his face conveyed to me that he was not convinced that the YYY angle is true, and although pakistanis will say this in the presence of kafirs that "No muslim could have done this", I suspect they sort of understand what reality is like. This is a very common behavior pattern that people try to hide uncomfortable facts from outsiders. The agencies being involved is the ultimate and omnipresent conspiracy theory in Pakistan, and everything from there being no water in the taps to there being no electricity is a conspiracy by the agencies. Overtly the YYY is to blame. On the inside I suspect they know the truth or suspect the truth.

But I am basing my judgements on one isolated incident. The possibility of this being wrong are indeed high. I just want this little possibility to be considered and weighed in, in what ever little percentage that if affects the whole situation. There are interesting possibilities if this is explored further.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Feb 2010 17:20

Gagan wrote:This Profit Jahil Hamid character represents the mainstream ISI-Pakistan Army thought process

Hmmm. Reminds me of that Austrian private which the Prussian army/industrialist empire of post-world war 1 thought it could manipulate and control. In that case, I will be looking forward to the Nacht der langen Messer (Night of the Long Knives). A sort of a Paki putsch, so to speak.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Feb 2010 17:24

durgesh wrote:Vacuum blast in Khyber kills 5. Link

There is a lot of confusion regarding the venue of today’s demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan.

The Associated Press says that today’s demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan took place at a Cattle Market :

Officials: Bomb blast kills up to 11 in Pakistan

The BBC says that today’s demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan was at a weekly Hashish Market:

Pakistani village hashish market hit by bomb

Paranoid Pakistani newspaper The Nation says that it was inside a Mosque and then goes on to say that today’s attack was an IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan:

At least 30 killed, over 100 injured in Khyber Agency suicide blast

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Feb 2010 17:31

India is being 'realistic': GoI Official

Pointing to the volley of provocative statements from across the border, among them the February 5 warning of Abdur Rehman Makki that Pune could be a future target, the sources stressed the importance of dialogue in cooling tempers and restoring normality. “We need to be sensible in the way we approach each other as we are both victims of terror. If anything, we need CBMs (confidence building measures) on terror,” the government sources said.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2010 17:32

arnab wrote:Whether our capabilities are enough to solve our problems can only be ascertained by making a list of our problems. The know your india thread was a good start. TSP is one of our problems. Not the sole one nor the most significant one.

Well its obvious that we have more than one issue, any large and diversified organism bigger than a single cell will exhibit that behavior.

It is also obvious that there will be trade offs.

What is not true however at all is that there is a linear dependency between one problem and the other. I.e. solving one problem must come before or after the other problems

Neither it is true that our current capabilities as a nation do not enable us to do a substantially better jobs on all fronts at the same time -- including handling Pakistan.

It is a strange paradox but an improved economy actually deters an overt military posture. TSP has much less to lose in an overt conflict. As an analogous example - Japan handles North Korea with kid gloves.

No that is not a valid case -- TSPA had overt posture even when Pakistan was actually better off than India (per capita, through whatever reason) -- China has had a overt posture through out its history.

And Japan is a exhibit one in the definition of a "satellite/client state" -- Japan will be something to talk about AFTER it charts its own future once again and stops living under the US tutelage and military umbrella. We shall see then what they do. (We know what they DID when they were not a defeated nation living under subjugation -- however gilded the cage)

I agree with you that GOI ultimately needs to come to a consensus that one cannot negotiate with a rabid dog. Unfortunately that will take time and in the meanwhile people like SRK will keep creating strawmen like MNIK and tearing them down. So no point getting our BP up.

Yes, the issue as you say is in the mind, and the mind issue can only be fixed by bursting a artery in the head I think, through high blood pressure.

Two generations of Indian and Indians living in high blood pressure is what is needed for survival of India, let alone growth.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Feb 2010 17:40

Letter in Der Noose

Military muscle
Thursday, February 18, 2010

In the article "Countering insurgency and terrorism" by Ikram Sehgal (February 11), the writer stressed that more money should be put into the mouth of the powerful military establishment. We have developed only the 'military muscle' for the last 60 years. The rest of the body is emaciated. I wish more 'vitamins' and 'tonics' were given to the undernourished parts of this nation. An illiterate nation needs more education. A sick nation requires more health. A rickety infrastructure needs more development. Human development should be our priority number one. No amount of weapons can save an illiterate, sick, waterless nation living 18 hours in loadshedding.

Dr Farah Khan,
US

Pakis, malnourished? Jeeehaaard!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Feb 2010 17:53

Dialogue with India
A worth-while read. Some excerpts:

With the fast deteriorating security situation in Afghanistan and due to the need for effective and decisive action against the Taliban, the US appeared on the scene at this stage, as its success became dependent on Pakistan's total and undivided attention and action in support of the US operations.

The coercive diplomacy of the US finally won the day. Pakistan agreed to join the negotiations despite the fact that India is not ready to make the Kashmir issue a part of the resumed talks. Pakistan has also accepted not to make revival of composite dialogue a pre-condition for the talks and a new framework has been devised in which terrorism will be the core issue in the forthcoming talks.

Indian diplomacy and guile is at its best. Pakistan has been asking for resumption of the dialogue without any preconditions. India, on the contrary, remained evasive or negative.

The history of negotiations between Pakistan and India clearly brings out India's strategy for an open-ended negotiating process to buy time to consolidate its position, both internationally and with the Kashmiri leadership.

I do not see India agreeing to hold talks with Pakistan outside the range of composite dialogue. The focus will be on terrorism being the be-all and end-all of the negotiating rounds. Pakistan should not expect any progress, let alone a breakthrough, for reasons spelled out above.

Once the Af-pak strategy achieves its goals and the key role of Pakistan in this strategy is over, the process would be allowed to lapse into oblivion.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Feb 2010 17:59

arun wrote: At least 30 killed, over 100 injured in Khyber Agency suicide blast

From DAWN,

“There is no communication system in the area. This is an inaccessible area for us,” the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

I thought that the PA proudly proclaimed that the writ of the state has been established after the Rah-e-Rast Phases I, II, III and IV.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 18 Feb 2010 18:01

It is also obvious that there will be trade offs.

What is not true however at all is that there is a linear dependency between one problem and the other. I.e. solving one problem must come before or after the other problems

Neither it is true that our current capabilities as a nation do not enable us to do a substantially better jobs on all fronts at the same time -- including handling Pakistan.

Well a 'trade-off' by definition describes prioritisation and therefore a 'dependency'. GOI trades off an 'overt' posture for superior economic development. Sure there is always room for improvement in every sphere. It is also relative in nature. 50 years ago GOI would have satisfied Indians if they managed to get PL480 food aid. Today the determinants are different. What is unambigous is the fact that Indians on an avergae in 2010 have a better quality of life than they did in 2001. Perhaps GOI does not want to rock the boat?

No that is not a valid case -- TSPA had overt posture even when Pakistan was actually better off than India (per capita, through whatever reason) -- China has had a overt posture through out its history.

I think you will need to define what you mean by an overt posture. Blustering and bullying is not a posture - as China realised in 1969 (?).

And Japan is a exhibit one in the definition of a "satellite/client state" -- Japan will be something to talk about AFTER it charts its own future once again and stops living under the US tutelage and military umbrella. We shall see then what they do. (We know what they DID when they were not a defeated nation living under subjugation -- however gilded the cage)

Not sure how Japan's status matters here. Even if true, we can only translate it to 'US handles North Korea with kid gloves'.

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Feb 2010 18:29

“We need to be sensible in the way we approach each other as we are both victims of terror. If anything, we need CBMs (confidence building measures) on terror,” the government sources said.

Not sure whether to laugh or cry when a GoI functionary says this.

And we keep ascribing Chankian motives to this $#%@^...

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Feb 2010 19:49

X Posted. The contretemps between the un-uniformed Islamic Jihadi’s and the uniformed Islamic Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been quite a bloody affair. The ISPR has disclosed casualties suffered by the uniformed Islamic Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan since Sept 11, 2001 as follows:

According to ISPR, 2,273 Pakistani soldiers have been killed including 78 officers while 6,512 have been injured .................

The Nation

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Feb 2010 19:58

SSridhar wrote:
arun wrote: At least 30 killed, over 100 injured in Khyber Agency suicide blast
From DAWN,
“There is no communication system in the area. This is an inaccessible area for us,” the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.
I thought that the PA proudly proclaimed that the writ of the state has been established after the Rah-e-Rast Phases I, II, III and IV.

That the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has lost access to that area would explain why the site of the demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan has swung from Mosque to Hashish Market to Cattle Market.

Strange to see that it is kosher to run a Hashish market in an Islamic Republic granting even that this a corner currently out of access for the Islamic Republic given that it is controlled by a pious bunch that seeks to rigorously implement Islamic Shariah law

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Feb 2010 20:08

What India will discuss with Pakistan on Feb. 25

Highly placed sources said India will seek the voice samples of Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu Al Qama, Shahid Jamil Riaz, Hamad Amin Sadiq, Younus Anjum and Jamil Ahmed.

The arms training of some youth under the banner of Indian Mujahideen in Karachi, will also be conveyed to Pakistan, the sources said.

But, why is GoI pre-announcing all these ?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 18 Feb 2010 20:12

The Americans also assured the Pakistanis that the U.S. will remain in the region and continue to provide resources to maintain stability.

At the same time, the U.S. presented what officials say was strong evidence that at least some ISI agents—a few of them senior—had told the Afghan Taliban about the movements and locations of NATO forces in Afghanistan.

ISI officers were also sitting in on Afghan Taliban leadership meetings and providing strategic guidance and logistical support to the group, the U.S. charged. There was also ample evidence of ISI funding of Taliban activities, the officials said.

With ISI officers attending meetings of the top Taliban leadership, the Pakistanis couldn't say they didn't know where Mullah Baradar was, said a former Defense Department official.

U.S. Pressed Pakistan for Taliban Chief's Arrest

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Feb 2010 20:41

CRamS wrote: Apart from the moral degenerecy and cowradice, let me add another angle. he exhibits a kind of elitist arrogance; "jee I am so enlightened". I've met many such NRI morons. And of course next thing you know, he will be on western media puking the same garbage.

It is a common habit amongst "intellectual" puppets of Stalinist rapist goons to 'exempt' their paymasters in Beijing from all moralistic pontification about how bad nuclear weapons are and so on...I would humbly suggest not to post verbatim articles from Stalinist yellow dailies.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Feb 2010 20:49

I cannot find the link now but MKB has another 'brilliant' piece in todays' Deccan Herald - the final pallavi of the song is the same - let us surrender to China & Russia but some of the paragraphs have changed...he says TSP/ISI knew all along where Mullah Baradar was and this is just a way of Unkil & Pakbarian animals working together to handover Afghan to TSP and wash Unkil hands off at least from active combat.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Feb 2010 20:58

This guy gets it right..

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =123841570

many analysts have rashly concluded that it marks a shift in Pakistan's policy of supporting the Afghan Taliban. ... Pakistan's cooperation has always been tactical rather than strategic. Pakistan still sees the Haqqani network as a "strategic asset," although it has arrested several members of the Haqqani family in the past (only to release them later when the U.S. pressure subsided).

I dont think the Pakbarians are fooling the Americans if even common journos are able to spot it so clean. On top of that the NYT article talks about US complaints to TSP about ISI. So everyone knows TSP for what it is - just that they do not want the barbarians to move from 'covert' to 'overt' control and complicate matters further..

This is where India has to tell Unkil that let the Taliban takeover TSP overtly and then nuke the whole lot...much easier for humanity..

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Feb 2010 20:59

When Islamization is deliberately sponsored by a ruling elite of a Muslim dominated nation, it always comes to a point where the common abdul looks for empowerment through Islamism. In all the Islamic countries this trend is obvious. What would have had a safety release through normal electoral processes and an open society in modern liberal democracies, is forced into a peculiar fundamentalist upsurge in Islamic countries. This is drive for empowerment looking to use classical Islamic "revolutionary" forms - paint current holders of privileges as "corrupt/fallen/deviated/impure" and off with their heads, and get their lands and women (the real targets set for common abduls anyway within the framework of the theology).

The Iranian commons desire for empowerment went the Islamic theocratic authoritarianism way - marginalizing all the liberal democrats/leftists. Some countries have tried to compromise with accommodation of the Islamist theocrats and the popular movements they lead as in BD, TSP, Malaysia etc.

But it would be wrong to think that domestic violence against ruling Islamic elite by the abdul will delegtimize Islamist or Jihadist ideology - in fact it strengthens fundamentalism as the new movement seeks to present itself as "purer". In TSP, too any such movement will lead to even greater fundamentalism. Talebs are just one acute epression of thsi phenomenon.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Feb 2010 21:19

SSridhar wrote:
arun wrote: At least 30 killed, over 100 injured in Khyber Agency suicide blast

I dont know if everyone here realises this, but there were TWO blasts one taking 11 to their 72 and the other taking 25 (and counting) to their 72.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... lled-qs-10
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... last-qs-09

In addition to that..national bird spits four to death..

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ials-ha-01

Avalanches have also joined the fun...

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... lice-ss-02

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 18 Feb 2010 21:24

The sheedi tribe

A huge blow to the H&D related to the TFTA turko-arab-persian origins.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Feb 2010 21:27

SSridhar wrote:What India will discuss with Pakistan on Feb. 25
Highly placed sources said India will seek the voice samples of Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu Al Qama, Shahid Jamil Riaz, Hamad Amin Sadiq, Younus Anjum and Jamil Ahmed.
The arms training of some youth under the banner of Indian Mujahideen in Karachi, will also be conveyed to Pakistan, the sources said.
But, why is GoI pre-announcing all these ?

My guess is that the GoI is being forced by the US to come to the table ........... because TSP is pressurizing the US for help the US needs (cyclical stuff).

Since India cannot openly state what the real cause to come to the table is, this is Indian way to come to the table, also let the US know that India has a limit AND indirectly inform the US that there are issues that India needs resolved with US help and that the US should get moving on the topic.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Feb 2010 21:32

Another Indian elite scum bag trying to impress his western masters with equal equal sophistry. I have seen this kind of a**-holes show up at various events I attend, and hijack the whole show India TSP this, India TSP that, completely taking the focus away from TSP terror.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Feb 2010 21:40

Two contrasting reports on NPR I heard are worth sharing. The first was capture of this Afghan mullah, and profuse praise for TSP from Obama & Co on TSP's fight on terror. Nothing, nada, zilch, nothing about TSP's terror against India. A few minutes later, a report on US sanctions on Syria. From the reporter to the govt officials interviewed during the report (it was difficult to distuniguish between the two), both did not even mince words in claiming Syria as a supprter of terrorism. And not terrorism against US, but against Israel. And when the issue of sanctions lifting came up, there was unanimous agreement that as long as Syria plays host to Hamas, and they played a few clips of Hamas urging Jihad against Israel, no chance of US Congress even discussing the issue. Now contrast that with TSP getting billions, equal equal even as they host Hafeez Saeed and other LeT pigs out in the open urging slaughter of Indians. US-Israel relations are strategic and substantive, US-India relations are between a colonial master and SDRE slaves.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 18 Feb 2010 22:12

CBS is reporting that Sirajuddin Haqqani, Kabul embassy mastermind, and his brother were killed today in a drone strike in N.Waziristan.

If this is true, this is really huge news!

We do need to worry about the quid-pro-quo part but let's at least see if the quid part is true...

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Feb 2010 22:18

Suppiah wrote: I dont know if everyone here realises this, but there were TWO blasts one taking 11 to their 72 and the other taking 25 (and counting) to their 72.

Only one Blast. The blast happened in Akkakhel village which is located on the border between Khyber and Orakzai tribal districts therefore the confusion.

Ansar-ul-Islam (Companions of Islam) targeted the Lashkar-e-Islam (Army of Islam)...

Senior leader of the Lashkar-e-Islam, Azam Khan, was among the dead.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Feb 2010 22:28

shravan wrote:
Suppiah wrote: I dont know if everyone here realises this, but there were TWO blasts one taking 11 to their 72 and the other taking 25 (and counting) to their 72.
Only one Blast. The blast happened in Akkakhel village which is located on the border between Khyber and Orakzai tribal districts therefore the confusion.

Ansar-ul-Islam (Companions of Islam) targeted the Lashkar-e-Islam (Army of Islam)... Senior leader of the Lashkar-e-Islam, Azam Khan, was among the dead.

Which one is more hardline? And which one is the sarkari gang?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Feb 2010 22:39

amit wrote:
You're right about the Paki capacity to create trouble. However, this is coming at increasing cost to itself. God forbid if there's a terror strike during these sporting events, then there's no way in hell it can fudge responsibility for it.

Why ever not? They fudged responsibility for 26/11 (in which many foreign nationals were killed) onto "non state actors" didn't they? They are about to get away with the Pune blast too as GOI pursues its undeterred, headlong plunge into talks... aren't they?

The point is they can get away with anything given a GOI that is a willing aide and abettor in covering up the involvement of the Pakistani state in terrorism against India. What was merely stated at Sharm-el-Shaikh is now being instituted as concrete policy and acted upon. This gives us no reason whatsoever to believe that Pakistan wouldn't get away with a terror strike during the IPL or Commonwealth Games.

I guess the only solution for India is to tighten security to best possible level and ride this out. If we can do that then it results in a serious blow to the terror network of TSPA.

It would be interesting to see how playing a purely defensive game could result in a "blow" to anything at all.

Also economic growth vs tackling the Paki terror problem are not part of some zero sum game. The point is no GoI (including ones formed by Nationalist Parties) can't just say OK for the next five years we'll settle for the "Hindu rate of growth" and devote all our energies to solving the Paki terror problem.

I detect a self-contradiction here. You say that economic growth vs. tackling Pakistani terrorism are "*NOT* a zero sum game". In your next sentence you imply that it is; that a Nationalist government would have to settle for what you call a "Hindu rate of growth" in order to solve the Paki terror problem.

You are right in the first instance. It is not, and has never been a zero-sum game. Standing up for India's security interests has had to be measured and modulated to a degree that displeases some jingoes, but the NDA government achieved this while sustaining (and accelerating) a robust rate of economic growth. Economic reforms went ahead, if anything, faster than during the first term of the UPA government (when the dependence on the Left parties hamstrung disinvestment among other things). Meanwhile, we established a nuclear deterrent against severe international opprobrium; kicked the Pakistanis out, defying their nuclear blackmail when they tried to invade Kargil and Drass; and used coercive diplomacy to utterly reverse the trends of violence by Pakistani terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir.

What this implies is that the present-day mantra of "we must become economically strong before standing up for ourselves", chanted ad nauseam while Indian citizens are killed in terrorist attacks, is a canard perpetrated by the present regime. We don't even need to look to China for an example of asserting national interests while pursuing economic interests; it has been achieved by a previous Indian government, to a substantially more successful degree than we're seeing today.

There is a lot of room for options that tighten the screws on Pakistan without compromising economic growth to a damaging level. The NDA at least explored options within that space. The UPA is not: and their reluctance IMO has nothing to do with a lack of options. It has to do with pleasing the US, at an unacceptable cost in Indian lives.

Whether this pandering to US interests is alleged to somehow accelerate our economic growth even further, and whether the cost in lives is worth the additional acceleration, is a matter for debate. But that debate is not happening. The decision has been made, and is being hocked 24/7 by the GOI's Kept Media outlets, while it appears certain that more terrorist attacks will occur and kill more Indian citizens.

My reading is a stronger economy will increase costs for Pakistan, hopefully to a level where they and their friends will find it too expensive. However, unfortunately some posters seem to think such line of thinking is another example of "Dhimmitude".

Sometimes there's a big gap between what's desirable and what's practically achievable, IMO.

We have seen in the past what was practically achievable... and at a bare minimum level (I would be the last person to say that ABV's government did everything it could perfectly, either on Pakistan or on the economy). What's evident today is that we're being sold an abysmally lower standard of expectations as to what is "practically achievable".

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Feb 2010 22:46

ramana wrote:Which one is more hardline? And which one is the sarkari gang?

Ansar-ul-Islam is Pro Pakistani & Lashkar-e-Islam is Pro TTP.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 18 Feb 2010 22:59

ramana wrote:
shravan wrote:Ansar-ul-Islam (Companions of Islam) targeted the Lashkar-e-Islam (Army of Islam)... Senior leader of the Lashkar-e-Islam, Azam Khan, was among the dead.
Which one is more hardline? And which one is the sarkari gang?

Both are scums trying to be purer than the other, meaning both are hardline.

This is an old incident were both groups were involved.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak_ ... 996590.cms

Worth a read. This cant get more bizarre than this.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 18 Feb 2010 23:05

NRao wrote:My guess is that the GoI is being forced by the US to come to the table ........... because TSP is pressurizing the US for help the US needs (cyclical stuff).

One thing I never understand is that how can anyone (even the USA) force us (India) for anything, it does not make any sense to me. What leverage do they have with us? Nil in my opinion!

It is not as if we live on their mercy like TSP.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Feb 2010 23:06

Rangudu wrote:CBS is reporting that Sirajuddin Haqqani, Kabul embassy mastermind, and his brother were killed today in a drone strike in N.Waziristan.

If this is true, this is really huge news!

We do need to worry about the quid-pro-quo part but let's at least see if the quid part is true...

First Baradar and now this.

Is the ISI engineering coups against the leaderships of Taliban groups it influences, so as to replace their leaders with fellows more likely to be amenable to the shifting needs of TSPA political agenda?

If so, they are compounding their initial betrayal of the Taliban in 2001. Tactically brilliant perhaps, but let's see where it goes!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Feb 2010 23:07

If wishes were horses!

The second prong of the talks-inspite-of strategy of India should be selective bumping-off of LET leadership. One snake head for every attack India absorbed for the sake of US interests.

I sincerely hope this is included in YYY conspiracy.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 18 Feb 2010 23:18

Two more Taliban leaders arrested in TSP.

Who:

Afghan officials said the Taliban’s “shadow governors” for two provinces in northern Afghanistan had been detained in Pakistan by officials there. Mullah Abdul Salam, the Taliban’s leader in Kunduz, was detained in the Pakistani city of Faisalabad, and Mullah Mir Mohammed of Baghlan Province was also captured in an undisclosed Pakistani city, they said.

“Mullah Salam and Mullah Mohammed were the most merciless individuals,” said Gen. Razaq Yaqoobi, police chief of Kunduz Province. “Most of the terror, executions and other crimes committed in northern Afghanistan were on their orders.”

How:

The arrests were made by Pakistani officials, the Afghans said, but it seemed probable that C.I.A. officers accompanied them, as they did in the arrest of Mr. Baradar. Pakistani officials declined to comment.

Pakiness:

Together, the three arrests mark the most significant blow to the Taliban’s leadership since the American-backed war began eight years ago. They also demonstrate the extent to which the Taliban’s senior leaders have been able to use Pakistan as a sanctuary to plan and mount attacks in Afghanistan.

The three recent arrests — all in Pakistan — demonstrate a greater level of cooperation by Pakistan in hunting leaders of the Afghan Taliban than in the entire eight years of war. American officials have complained bitterly since 2001 that the Pakistanis, while claiming to be American allies and accepting American aid were simultaneously providing sanctuary and assistance to Taliban fighters and leaders who were battling the Americans across the border.

In conversations with American officials, Pakistani officials would often claim not to know about the existence of the “Quetta Shura,” ...

It is still far from clear, but senior commanders in Afghanistan say they believe that the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies, led by Gens. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Ahmed Shuja Pasha, may finally be coming around to the belief that the Taliban — in Pakistan and Afghanistan — constitute a threat to the existence of the Pakistani state.

I'm guessing these guys are still the Omar group and especially not haqqani group?