News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 May 2011 21:04

ranjithnath wrote:^^^
reposting from strategic issues thread
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 157651.cms
TORONTO: Pakistan was lucky not to have intervened in Sunday night's US military operation to kill Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden as Americans had armed jets on standby in Afghanistan to respond massively, says a media report here.

"Pakistan might have gotten very, very lucky on Sunday'' as the US would have responded massively to its interference in the operation to take out the world's most wanted terrorist, the National Post newspaper said here.

"Given the importance of extracting bin Laden's body for examination and the obvious desire of the US to protect its special forces is that, yes, America would have shot down any Pakistani jet that attempted to intervene in the operation,'' the paper said.

The other thought that strikes me is "What if no American helo had crashed?"

The Khans would have been in and out with no proof that they did it no?

Would they then have made this echandee screwing announcement?

They could well have tipped off the Pakis and told them "We have done this. We will squeeze your balls in public if you want. But we will keep quiet if you do what we say"

And they might have credited the Paki agencies with having got Osama in FATA.

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 May 2011 21:11

Apologies if this was posted.

The great Xinhua has a story about the valiant pakis (just for laughs)
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/w ... 854920.htm

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 May 2011 21:13

From email -
Seal Six which sealed the fate of Osama: Bald Eagle holding soolaayitham (Trident) and the team is nick naked devGru.. Guru peyarchchi is next week.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 04 May 2011 21:13

Obama's next orders
- find all those homes that have suddenly become normal, i.e.
- have had their compound walls lowered,
- barbs removed from walls,
- satellite dishes suddenly installed,
- internet connection restored
- children and milkmen allowed in
- walls whitewashed
- then destroy them

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 04 May 2011 21:15

Waht has really changed. Only one factor:

Osama has been taken out.

Doing a reality check is important:

1) Pakis still will crush Unkils nuts.
2) Their begging bowls will still be filled by western powers.
3) We will, and sorry to say that. continue to behave as wimps and pander to vote bank politics.
4) All protestation by Unkil that the beggars alms, err...arms, will not be used against us, should not wash because of the fact that since the 1950's pakis have been squeezing Unkils nuts. (The use of F86's, F-104's, Patton tanks, etc. provided under CENTO to encircle the USSR were used against us in '65 and '71 war)
5) Our and Unkil having "strategic" interests apply only in as much as we provide $$$ to Unkil in terms of market and alms....err arms. (Statements that how many jobs our deals with US have created). Whereas Unkil provides Money and alms...err arms to Pakis!
6) Don't forget that Osama was already into cloud/ distributed computing so his death is a blow for AQ, but with time they will bounce back.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and so far I havent even seen the pudding, forget eating it!

Sorry for a very depressing post.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 May 2011 21:16

Aaryan · Post by **Aaryan** » 04 May 2011 21:18

Sir if I may be allowed can I raise some questions..
1)How and why the power was cut?
2)How come 24 seals come in 4 helis ( 2 black hawk and 2 apache) for a super hot mission and one get crashed ( due to technical failure????) and then 24 seals leave with a body and lots of material and may be few other persons. Now how can so many people leave in one black hawk heli?
3)If he was unarmed as they say now, ( earlier they told he was armed) why was he killed??
4)If the people of abbottabad twited and facebooked about the operation, why no one shoot the and picture or video ( I read some where that after the seals flew off, pak security force conducted house to house search and seized memory cards and deleted vids from cell phone)
5)Why is the American version changing with time??
6)Why dint they took his wife who could have thrown more light and his recent activities??
7)If they can release pics of his youngest wife, then why cant they release pics OBL ??

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 May 2011 21:19

The thing is that Pakistan is going to use this interim to reassess the security of all its ISI protectees, moving them around to new safe houses. I hope the US is watching.

Hope that India is watching too....lots of roaches will be crawling out of their woodworks to go occupy another woodwork pointed out by the Pakis

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 04 May 2011 21:21

^^^ Family who started returning soccer balls.

Now question is, how will ISI/Paki army will protect zawahiri? Keep him in kiyani's basement?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 May 2011 21:22

er, TOI reports say *79 people came in unknown number of helis*. about 18-24 entered the compound - the rest must have taken up road blocking, outer cordon and airborne reserve.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 May 2011 21:24

zawahiri and co will not live in isolated and easily spied upon farmhouses. they will live in urban quetta or peshawar in dense network of lanes and thickly populated houses after doing plastic surgery.

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 May 2011 21:26

6)Why dint they took his wife who could have thrown more light and his recent activities??

I can also ask one question. Are you from Pakistan?
(Normally Indians dont make this grammatical mistake)

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 04 May 2011 21:28

saip wrote:Apologies if this was posted.

The great Xinhua has a story about the valiant pakis (just for laughs)
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/w ... 854920.htm

At about 1:20 a.m. local time a Pakistani helicopter was shot down by unknown people in the Sikandarabad area of Abbotabad. The Pakistani forces launched a search operation in the nearby area and encountered with a group of unknown armed people. A fire exchange followed between the two sides.

When the fire exchange ended, the Pakistani forces arrested some Arab women and kids as well some other armed people who later confessed to the Pakistani forces they were with Osama Bin laden when the fire was exchanged and Bin Laden was killed in the firing.

Local media reported that after the dead body of Bin Laden was recovered, two U.S. helicopter flew to the site and carried away the dead body of Bin Laden.

Now I know where Indian SICKULAR MEDIA and LEFTY muddle heads get the news from... Burkha Dutt and KP Nayyar are reading too much of xinhua...

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 04 May 2011 21:32

It's an excellent narrative - if you're smoking dope.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 21:34

shiv wrote: The other thought that strikes me is "What if no American helo had crashed?"

The Khans would have been in and out with no proof that they did it no?

Would they then have made this echandee screwing announcement?

They could well have tipped off the Pakis and told them "We have done this. We will squeeze your balls in public if you want. But we will keep quiet if you do what we say"

And they might have credited the Paki agencies with having got Osama in FATA.

What about OM Baba's election prospects with ratings all time low and getting lower?
Ombaba has shown that he has no old world allegiance.

partha · Post by **partha** » 04 May 2011 21:39

Aaryan wrote:Sir if I may be allowed can I raise some questions..

3)If he was unarmed as they say now, ( earlier they told he was armed) why was he killed??

Because he was responsible for the death of thousands of unarmed innocents.

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 May 2011 21:41

Aaryan= Paki?

All the questions sound suspiciously Paki ...

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 May 2011 21:43

I think he is. His questions look very much like the ones in DefNdumb forum

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 04 May 2011 21:51

yesterday there was a new part of american documentary called frontline was aired. two parts.

first part was about paki perfidity in afghanistan. amrullah saleh was there, who said many times they had given exact name and location of a haqqani commander to tsp and tsp did nothing.

some talib in isloo also said they were taking winter break here in isloo and will return. he said tsp helps them get across and tells them safe times and routes. they said tsp had full control over talib leaders and if tsp wanted they could arrest 'all of them in one hour'.

more importantly, lot of massa fighters/operational people are pretty pissed with tsp helping talibs - indirect and direct. lot of them know how exactly tsp helps. there were interviews with soldiers and some big guys. they all seemed pretty pissed at tsp.

is it possible that the massa military is pissed with tsp. they are taking abeating bcoz the games tsp is playing. they want to do whatever it takes to get tsp to play for their side. one of them even said settle cashmere.

sorry no links cannot find it online.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 04 May 2011 21:54

BREAKING NEWS!!!......

The US Navy Seal team member who fired his weapon on Osama bin Laden, killing him, is now himself in danger of being killed… ... by excessive ‘high-fiving’!

(Just kidding, of course, and paraphrasing a joke by Zack Galifianakis.)

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 May 2011 21:57

Here is the link to frontline

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... bin-laden/

A special report -- in the wake of Osama bin Laden's death, FRONTLINE takes you inside two fronts of the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... z1LP6gK3lf

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 May 2011 22:00

skynews reporting that some senators have seen the dead body pics and it is in a bit of a mess

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2011 22:04

Hope someone checks if the scenery in OBL tapes match with Abbottabad surroundings.

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 04 May 2011 22:05

Musharraf is on TimesNow with Arnab

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 04 May 2011 22:13

The psy-ops value of the Osama kill is being milked to the hilt by the west for sure.

1) The "Jack Nicholson" swagger of the country - go in and kill without any impact to US forces - forget about the 10 years spent prior
2) The constant building up of the seals as "white knights" the good guys. The world is swooning over them. Worlds soldiers who got the bad guys, forget the fact that soldiers from other parts of the world operate in much harder terrains
3) Successful raid with enemy who did not have a clue - you go cowboys!

Sounds like a nice hollywood movie, sort of Indiana Jones and the new crusade. The "white knights" got the bad guys and the bad guys were wimps (who hid behind their wives) while the "white knights" saved the women and children.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 04 May 2011 22:15

Aaryan wrote:3)If he was unarmed as they say now, ( earlier they told he was armed) why was he killed??

The official explanation is that he could be taken prisoner if there was absolutely *NO* threat. Being unarmed is not the same as being totally safe to take him. He could have IED's on him. The newspapers in Khanate said that to do that they would have to strip him. Do you really want to see photos of nanga OBL?

That said, it is clear that getting him alive was not high priority. They *could* have stripped him and also stunned him and taken him. But, it would be problematic. Who wants to go through this. it was cleaner.

Aaryan wrote:6)Why dint they took his wife who could have thrown more light and his recent activities??

Civilized nations don't kill or kidnap unarmed women.

Corollary: Those who do so are not civilized.

Aaryan wrote:7)If they can release pics of his youngest wife, then why cant they release pics OBL ??

Can you post any links for his picture?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 22:26

Akshay Kapoor, Indian is not sure what happened. In such cases best option to avoid inadvertent lashout is to say "here nice doggy, you were only dumb!"
Same policy as US is doing after the whipping.

So please take everything into consideration.

-
Jarita, Some leader already said it was like watching Indiana Jones.

The bigger thing is the clash with Satan. They need their Satans(Hitler usw) to move on.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 May 2011 22:27

shiv wrote: Ahhhh!
I know why Osammy was killed.
I have heard from a renowned architect that the triangle shape is very unsound from the point of view of vaastu
He should never have been staying there.

We already did strategic analysis of that in the BENIS dhaaga and concluded that his compound looks like the shape of a tight VIP chaddi protecting the crown jewels.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 22:31

So massa went in think clown jewels were there and found a washed out jihadi eating goat meat!

But seriously most like the hosue was built by TSPA Military Engg Group/PWD type organisation. In that case it would be standard layout. Now ll such houses are being scanned in google earth for potential wanted types.

Why that vacant space on one side of the triangle? Was it for future expansion or a helipad.

Most intriguing the reports of Fizzleya crashes in the aftermath.

Most likely shot down and now reported as crashes.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 May 2011 22:33

shaardula wrote:yesterday there was a new part of american documentary called frontline was aired. two parts.

first part was about paki perfidity in afghanistan. amrullah saleh was there, who said many times they had given exact name and location of a haqqani commander to tsp and tsp did nothing.

some talib in isloo also said they were taking winter break here in isloo and will return. he said tsp helps them get across and tells them safe times and routes. they said tsp had full control over talib leaders and if tsp wanted they could arrest 'all of them in one hour'.

THey talk about Afghan of Arab descent. This is a false information and these guys are foriegners inside Afghanistan for the last 20 years.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 04 May 2011 22:35

reports says WH wont release OBL photos....

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 04 May 2011 22:35

ramana wrote:A
-
Jarita, Some leader already said it was like watching Indiana Jones.

The bigger thing is the clash with Satan. They need their Satans(Hitler usw) to move on.

Such a build up. It does a good job of repairing the tatters around Abu Ghraib and Afghan civilian serial murders. I also wonder what it is leading to - now that the middle east is full of "terrorists, evil cowards (who hide behind women) and back stabbing friends. Lest us Indians celebrate, understand that we are puny towelheads who can be entertaining while sitting on a bed of thorns but that is it.

I guess the smooth shaven epitome of manliness - SEALS will have to save the world and females of that region from the evil cowards.

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 May 2011 22:36

Breaking news is that the WHite House wont release photos. Must be very gruesome or dont want to inflame muslim sentiments (?)

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 22:40

shiv wrote: Agreed

Personally I think Zaid Hamid should not get more hits from this forum. I never watch his rants - he is a buffoon, but isn't funny. I dont know why BRFites love him so much that they want to share him with others on here. But Atri - you should remove that link too in your reply.

shiv ji, surprised you say that.
IMO it's better for us if ZH brand of analysis gets more popular in TSP. we want them overconfident and moronic, not logical and grounded in reality. as you yourself say, pakistan turning overtly jihadi is good for India, ZH is one of the symptoms of that phenomenon. why should we hide it ?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 May 2011 22:43

They were probably using soft-core hollow point bullets, which mushroom and fragment a lot on impact. This engagement was at short range and the possibility that OBL was wearing a vest is remote. One shot on his head would have blown half his face away. Would have been pretty gruesome.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 22:45

Aaryan wrote:Sir if I may be allowed can I raise some questions..
1)How and why the power was cut?
2)How come 24 seals come in 4 helis ( 2 black hawk and 2 apache) for a super hot mission and one get crashed ( due to technical failure????) and then 24 seals leave with a body and lots of material and may be few other persons. Now how can so many people leave in one black hawk heli?
3)If he was unarmed as they say now, ( earlier they told he was armed) why was he killed??
4)If the people of abbottabad twited and facebooked about the operation, why no one shoot the and picture or video ( I read some where that after the seals flew off, pak security force conducted house to house search and seized memory cards and deleted vids from cell phone)
5)Why is the American version changing with time??
6)Why dint they took his wife who could have thrown more light and his recent activities??
7)If they can release pics of his youngest wife, then why cant they release pics OBL ??

1.Who says light was cut? No report from live tweet saying that lights were cut. Actually they were working out with us to buy some power but could not get it. SEALs had no need for that, you know.

2.They tracked back to Tarbela Ghazi Airfield .
3.He did not raise his hand to surrender. No way to know if he was not holding a gun hence Kill. Standard practice in US.
4.All such materials are in PA hands as you yourself said. Will come out after 100 years.
5.Its called fine tuning. OSmama is dead as dodo. That's immutable rest is chutney, enjoy it.
6.They believe in Parda and widow remarriage. She is in Gen Kiya-hai-ni's service enjoying hospitality of PA medical hospital within PMA compound. This was promised to him as a reward for not knowing anything else at assing out ceremony of 121st Terrorist Officers.
7.See it was a digital camera. Memory got full. They tried with HDD of Osmama and found full of virus. It destroyed everything expect that beautiful face. Now they have asked al zawahiri to give a photo so that they can show him.

I hope these are satisfactory answers. Man you already know more than what media and tweets have reported. Guard yourself with zeal.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 04 May 2011 22:50

Rahul M wrote:
shiv wrote: Agreed

Personally I think Zaid Hamid should not get more hits from this forum. I never watch his rants - he is a buffoon, but isn't funny. I dont know why BRFites love him so much that they want to share him with others on here. But Atri - you should remove that link too in your reply.
shiv ji, surprised you say that.
IMO it's better for us if ZH brand of analysis gets more popular in TSP. we want them overconfident and moronic, not logical and grounded to facts. as you yourself say, pakistan turning overtly jihadi is good for India, ZH is one of the symptoms of that phenomenon. why should we hide it ?

Along with the videos of Hafeez Said...I think this idiot's videos should be shown to Burkha Dutt types and Aman ki Tamasha types in India.....at least then they'll know what Pakis really have in their minds....btw...its just a small hope

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 May 2011 22:52

saip wrote:Breaking news is that the WHite House wont release photos. Must be very gruesome or dont want to inflame muslim sentiments (?)

I doubt this inflame Muslim sentiments BS, they can do didly squat except kill each other or kill a few goats like Pakis.

More likely reason is that OBL's face may have looked so mangled that it would be impossible to positivly identify him based on those. And once that happens, you can count on Paki ISI type evil chutiyas to put out conspiracy theories, and discredit US claims.

Let face it, and I say this with awe & respect for US, and some amount of jealousy that India couldn't pull something like this off despite TSP's provocations: more than anything else that US did past 10 years, this commando raid was such a clinical class act that it has really shocked and awed the average Abdul in the Muslim world and is certain to demoralize them. Even the Russians and the Chincoms must be jealous in private. It has shown the world why US is a super power. Of course that does not mean that US's actions in general don't stink, but hey, the winner gets to write history.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 22:53

I don't agree that there were only 4 helicopters involved in that raid.

The recent statement that Pres. Obama requested everyone to consider that cryptic "fight to get out" plan, seems to suggest that more number of helos were deployed and on standby, in the air.

What would have happened if OBL wasn't here, but this was a known Al Qaida hideout. The seals would have still gone back with a lot of intel and a few prisoners who would be able to give important intel.

One possibility everyone must consider is that the US used Ghazi, Tarbela as a launch point for some of the helos, and these helos came back to that base after completing that mission. The group of helos - the longer ranged ones came in from Bagram AFB, and these left with OBL's body to Bagram.

The shorter ranged ones would be the Apache's, the Kiowa Warriors, and perhaps the Black Hawks. The longer ranged ones would be the Chinooks. I don't think that these helos - the blackhawks would be lugging their external fuel tanks when they are going into a firefight. If they came in with those ferry tanks, they left them at Tarbela.

The US already has a well established base Inside pakistan, has unrestricted use of that base and no questions asked on when they want to fly. So them taking off in half a dozen helos from Tarbela in the middle of the night might not have raised may eyebrows, them flying off at odd hours must be routine for these guys.

Radar Coverage: I will post google earth images of Pakistan's known Big Radar sites, and their coverage is hardly adequate, and certainly non-existent in the hilly areas with ample space for a group of helos flying low and fast in the valleys. On top of this, the US must have had overwhelming ELINT / SIGINT / Electronic power in the air. It must have been easy for them to spoof the meagre Radar coverage that Pakistan has.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 May 2011 22:54

CRamS wrote:
Let face it, and I say this with awe & respect for US, and some amount of jealousy that India couldn't pull something like this off despite TSP's provocations: more than anything else that US did past 10 years, this commando raid was such a clinical class act that it has really shocked and awed the average Abdul in the Muslim world and is certain to demoralize them.

This is a US created monster and they had to close it in the eyes of the Muslim world to show dominance.