Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29th May 2012

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 06 Jul 2012 12:16

^ Qafirs!! hostile propahgandu is spread by non-state actors in pacquistan not by state.

partha · Post by **partha** » 06 Jul 2012 12:21

Kati wrote:Let Allah save Islam from Pakistan.......

http://dawn.com/2012/07/05/exit-god-enter-madness/

A painting showing the hanging of Sufi saint and poet Mansur Al-Hallaj. He was hanged by Abbasid caliph, Al-Muqtadir in 922 CE, after the orthodox ulema and molvis at Muqtadir’s court accused Hallaj of committing blasphemy. In a fit of Sufi devotional rite, Al-Hallaj is reported to have shouted ‘Anā l-Ḥaqq’ (I am the truth). The ulema took the statement to mean that Hallaj was declaring he was God. Sufis, however, believe that Al-Hajjaj had simply reached the pinnacle of devotional consciousness and that Muqadir and his ulema got him executed because his unorthodox ways of teaching Islam had become popular with the masses and thus a threat to the Caliphate.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 Jul 2012 12:28

ArunK wrote:I just heard the Mullah crowd -- Mullah Diesel & JeI -- thundering that they would block the US/NATO trucks.

Mullah Diesel I know of, Who's Mullah Jel? What's with the nickname? Inquiring minds would like to know.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 06 Jul 2012 13:39

Kati wrote:Let Allah save Islam from Pakistan.......

http://dawn.com/2012/07/05/exit-god-enter-madness/

If a WKK or normal person reads this article in a non-Paki newspaper, the reaction will be: " Foreigners who misunderstand Islam and Pakistan exaggerating everything.

But if it's a Paki paper, then the reaction is: "Oooh, there are so many sane liberals in Pakistan who think just like us."

Real point of widespread Pakistaniyat is rarely an issue.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Jul 2012 13:47

ManuT wrote:I wanted to highlight the Pakistan's help in finding taliban.
From a few years ago. It is the funniest one I have come across to date.

Last Updated: Wednesday, 9 June, 2004, 10:59 GMT 11:59 UK

Sounding the drum for al-Qaeda hunt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3789919.stm

This is how suckers fought GWOT.

What worked for the British, works for the Khans too!

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jul 2012 14:15

India walks the extra mile this time

This is a major concession by India, and could well lead to the next step of joint cooperation in tackling terrorism. The governments had agreed a while ago to set up a joint terror mechanism, but given the outcry in India, the proposal was shelved. The wording of this joint statement seems to suggest that it is being pulled out of cold storage.

Jammu and Kashmir apparently led to a ‘comprehensive exchange of views’ with the foreign secretaries agreeing to continue discussions on the issue. Clearly, Pakistan did not indulge in histrionics, with both sides committing themselves to ‘finding a peaceful solution by narrowing divergences and building convergences.’ Jilani did raise the usual hackles by meeting separatist leaders, but then this has become a practice allowed by the Indian government. After all, there is little said and discussed at these meetings that our intelligence agencies are not aware of.

Eyes are burning reading this article and the headline used.

Is there any time where any other country has walked a "extra mile" when India is involved?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 06 Jul 2012 14:24

^ Sir, when our 4th Estate has been proven to be filled with DDM and WKK with tendency of speaking out of their A$$, why raise your BP by believing in whatever they publish. If you read Paki newspapers, it would seem like that only Pakis are walking

)
So Sit back and enjoy the ride.

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 Jul 2012 14:48

ArmenT wrote:
ArunK wrote:I just heard the Mullah crowd -- Mullah Diesel & JeI -- thundering that they would block the US/NATO trucks.
Mullah Diesel I know of, Who's Mullah Jel? What's with the nickname? Inquiring minds would like to know.

You misread. It is J e I jot Jel. Jamaat-e-Islami I guess.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jul 2012 14:50

ArmenT wrote:
ArunK wrote:I just heard the Mullah crowd -- Mullah Diesel & JeI -- thundering that they would block the US/NATO trucks.
Mullah Diesel I know of, Who's Mullah Jel? What's with the nickname? Inquiring minds would like to know.

ArmenT, sorry to cut short your interesting inquiry by suggesting that it was not Gel but JeI (Jama'at-e-islami).

ranjbe · Post by **ranjbe** » 06 Jul 2012 14:50

Mohammed Malick, editor of Bakistani "The News", in today's paper:

Are we a bunch of morons or what? Or did we really suffer a celestial bias when the common sense gene was being parcelled out to different nations? How else can we even pretend that the senseless wasteland called Pakistan’s foreign and security policy – supposedly hammered out by the country’s brightest and bravest – makes any sense at all? God, how one misses simple good old common sense or some understanding of the virtue of ‘taking the right decision at the right time.’

And all this ridiculous grandstanding for what? A categorical apology that never really came? Drones that will continue to fly? Endless discussions between Hafeez Shaikh and Thomas Nide over container transit fees, which we then entirely waived off? Just what the heck was being discussed and fought over all these months while the economy went to hell and the country stood accused of being a terrorist haven among the comity of nations?

The issue here is not that the government did the obvious or even whether it was the right thing to do or not. That GLOCs would be reopened was a given, but on what terms? If a qualified regret, or ‘Oops I’m sorry folks’ for the brazen slaughter of your sitting ducks in khaki uniforms, was an acceptable deal after all, then all this has been on the table right from day one.

The fundamental issues fuelling the policy stalemate had remained unchanged for the preceding months and no new variable had come into play – so why did Pakistan suddenly give in? And with such sudden eagerness that the foreign minister had conveyed the good news to her US counterpart even before the Defence Cabinet Committee had ‘formally’ approved the reopening of the routes.
I recall a very senior US representative in Pakistan, an integral part of all of Thomas Nide’s parlays with Pakistani authorities, saying right after Nide’s last visit to Pakistan, “Look, we are at a stage where we’ll say anything that the Pakistani government wants its people to hear. Drones? Sure we’ll say we’ll share intelligence as long as you seriously don’t expect that to happen. We’ll promise to only transport non-lethal supplies through Pakistan, but as long as privately it’s clear nobody will check our cargo. A little bit of extra cash can also be given as transit fee but things have to move now. Patience is running thin back home and even supporters like Vice President Biden and Kerry have thrown up arms. You guys are running out of time, and friends.”
Listening to the statements now flowing out of Islamabad and Washington, the script appears a carbon copy of my American friend’s script. In fact, we have conceded even more.
On the thorny issue of drones violating Pakistan’s sovereignty, Islamabad has now actually legitimised the drone attacks by claiming to enter into an “intelligence-sharing” arrangement. The US has gotten the perfect legal fig-leaf protection for what will essentially remain an exclusively American operation with the Pakistani government now even kept out of the loop by a marauding superpower. We will no longer be in a position to challenge US violation of our territorial sovereignty on any international forum including the UN, International Court of Justice etc because we’ve said, “Hey, we’re in on this now.”
Besides the deteriorating economic situation, Pakistan’s panicked retreat may have been orchestrated equally by certain actions being contemplated in the US. Immense pressure was being felt in the Pakistani policymaking corridors on the professed US Congress and administration’s intentions to possibly classify the Haqqani network and LeT as terrorist organisations.
Official denials notwithstanding, the covert and overt links between these two outfits and certain Pakistani intelligence outfits are an open secret. After declaring them terrorist outfits, the US administration could have gone to the UN to seek the global body’s sanction to move against any organisation or state, supporting declared terrorist organisations. And that would have been step one towards Pakistan ending up being declared a rogue state.
Add to that the recent Saudi action of handing over a suspected Mumbai carnage mastermind to India and suddenly we see a new dimension to the increasingly strengthening US-SA-India equation. Already ostracised by a large part of the world, we cannot afford to continue losing out on old friends, regardless of their warts. As matters stand today, we don’t even know the possible fallout of the ‘revelations’ made by this Abu Jandal, who had been travelling on Pakistani travel documents.
And while Islamabad will immediately rubbish any claims the Mumbai operation was a joint one between LeT and the ISI, even the whispers will still hurt bad in an environment of adverse perceptions and where the larger part of the western world wants to believe Pakistan is the bad guy.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jul 2012 15:55

Our DDM is really in La-la land. They are now repeating the TSP message on "non-state" actors!!

Op-ed in IE:

As India and Pakistan bridge the trust deficit, why does the media remain so off-message?

The media took it upon itself to attack, ignoring the stated boundaries of the talks and the painfully constructed equilibrium of the last few years. Both Mathai and Jilani were entirely reasonable, and it was clear that the longstanding disputes between the two nations were off the agenda, apart from a discussion of confidence-building measures. This has been a deliberate decision. After ties between India and Pakistan sank to a new low following 26/11, it was agreed that bilateral talks would resume without mention of the event and its investigation, which would carry on separately. This was a magnanimous gesture by the Manmohan Singh government, building on Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s example, to work with Pakistan’s civilian government, despite provocation from the terror apparatus it has little control over.

However, the media was having none of this diplomatic slo-mo affair. It wanted the Abu Jundal question answered to its satisfaction, and kept returning to it — despite Jilani’s statement that terrorism was a “common threat to both India and Pakistan... If we blame each other like this, it will have no benefit.” Worse, the questions at the press conference assumed a hostile us-and-them tone — “we” Indians wronged by “you” Pakistanis.

Right...it was the Pakis who were wronged and so Indians shouldn't even talk about terror and stuff.

This media belligerence is markedly at odds with the larger bilateral endeavour, and changed circumstances. India and Pakistan do not harp on the “core issue”, be it defined as Kashmir or terrorism. Both have inched towards greater economic engagement. Pakistan’s civilian administration deserves credit for investing in these moves, and managing the army to make this cooperation possible. What then does the media think it is achieving by savaging a couple of hapless diplomats?

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 06 Jul 2012 16:05

Oh gee, look what we have here. The US has its own MK Moothrakumar. Whose impressive resume reads:

.. he was an advisor to the U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke. Was until recently a professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy of Tufts University. Is now the dean of the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University and a senior fellow in foreign policy at the Brookings Institution.

Here is the latest junk by this man:

No More Bullying Pakistan

The sole comment at the end of this farticle tells this idiot that he is full of it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jul 2012 17:14

jrjrao wrote:No More Bullying Pakistan

Vali Nasr has written that piece ? Something has gone wrong with him then. I was appalled to read statements such as

The clash in November between U.S. and Pakistani forces was a mess, with miscommunication on both sides but fatalities on only one. {How convenient to forget the thousands of fatalities directly attributed to PA}

Pakistan, still seething over the U.S. breach of its sovereignty in the raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound

Americans were understandably angry that bin Laden was found hiding in a Pakistani city, but few knew that the plane that transported his body from an Afghan base to a U.S. Navy ship for a sea burial had to fly over Pakistani territory. {What is he trying to say here, that Pakistan was generous enough to allow that after having hidden OBL for eight years all the while strenously misleading the entire world claiming variously of him having died or escaped to another country or hiding in Afghanistan etc even as it claimed to be fighting global terror and accepting billions of dollars in lieu thereof?}

The U.S. should adopt a long-term strategy that would balance U.S. security requirements with Pakistan’s development needs.{What happened the billions sunk in by the US since the early 50s into Pakistan's development needs ? Pakistan diverted most of it to arming itself against India and funding terrorism, while the rest went into the pockets of the Islamist Generals who plotted against the very aid giver. Is Pakistan even genuinely interested in developing itself ? Geez.}

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jul 2012 17:49

To me Pakistani rhetoric about the US is vaguely reminiscent of the bitter criticism of the US that I used to read from Chinese sources in the 1960s where the US and its Western allies were dismissed as capitalist dogs with an expansionist, colonial policy. China portrayed itself as a self respecting equal of any of the western nations including the US and refused to take orders.

From time to time we have had other countries who stood up to the US and these have included NoKo and Iran. But what Pakistan is doing transcends any of these examples. Pakistan demands US respect and attention in the knowledge that the US has no option other than to depend on Pakistan. In so many ways, the Pakistani establishment and their spokespersons really are thumbing their noses at the US.

Every time I write such things I need to point out that this is not written simply to mock the US and gloat - which is the sense in which it is often taken. I am trying to point out that Pakistan has some strengths that it is able to employ to its fullest advantage and there is nothing much the US can do (or India in many instances) to stop Pakistan from using those strengths.

Indians on BRF have spent years gnashing their teeth in frustration at the seeming incompetence of Indian governments in checking Pakistan. The US experience is a useful one in showing that Pakistan's strengths are not just due to others' incompetence or cowardliness. Pakistan has inherent advantages that they use. That is not so say that India and the US do not have their own strengths that that Pakistan can do nothing about. They do.

But India gets nothing out of cheering US successes in Pakistan, just like the US gained little from past Indian successes against Pakistan. There is a 50 year gap between US perceptions of Pakistan and Indian perceptions. From the start India has found Pakistan to be an Islamic extremist country with violent irredentist aims within India. The US has considered Pakistan a secular ally and is unwilling to declare the obvious about Islamic extremism and Pakistan. Clearly there is something more than meets the eye here and that is so obvious to many on BRF that they usually explain it as "keeping India in check" or "needing Pakistan as an ally against Iran". I am inclined to believe the latter, although I would not dismiss the former entirely. Either way the US needs Pakistan just as much as Pakistan wants US aid.

How can this be made better for India?

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 06 Jul 2012 18:58

Unkil and TSP have symbiotic relationship
India is collateral I their survival and interests

The Indian intelligentsia leadership itself encourages the TSP through indirect endorsements inducements pure idiotic deneiql of reality and hoping some or some how truth will prevail
As BJ saar has said we have to hit rock bottom to get our act going
Let's see

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jul 2012 19:21

ranjbe wrote: The US has gotten the perfect legal fig-leaf protection for what will essentially remain an exclusively American operation with the Pakistani government now even kept out of the loop by a marauding superpower.

The wording is correct here.

'marauding superpower.' represents a power which can get away with anything from most small countries and also from nuclear power such as Pakistan

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jul 2012 19:22

Form the Vali Nsr article

I doubt Vali Nasr is correct. The Pakistani state and the military is not negotiating from a position of strength because they are so much more dependent on American aid (both military and civilian) and from loans from lenders and donors throughout the world.

Bullying will stop only when Pakistani changes from a national security interest to a strategic interest where both Pakistan and the US benefit from each other. Right now the US is trying to contain problems within Pakistan - it is not gaining anything from it.

These Pakis are really living in a world of their own.
Pakis want to become a 'strategic interest' and then things will be fine

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 06 Jul 2012 20:03

Just saw Sherry on Times Now talking about the thaw in Pak-US relations. Guess what, a statue of the Buddha was in the same frame. Ya allah, what is the world coming to.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Jul 2012 20:10

There is PR going about to make the image that Pakistan is a land of Buddha. We need to find out how big is the effort.

Lot of westerners are quoted as saying that Buddha sites are in Pakistan and also it was the land of the buddha

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Jul 2012 20:13

^^^

kenop wrote:Just saw Sherry on Times Now talking about the thaw in Pak-US relations. Guess what, a statue of the Buddha was in the same frame. Ya allah, what is the world coming to.

doesnt that make sherry wajib-ul-kuttlet.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jul 2012 20:16

TSP is an egotistic bubble pumped up by UK and US acts. It is filled with thoughts of self importance in the world scheme.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jul 2012 20:18

SSridhar wrote:
jrjrao wrote:No More Bullying Pakistan
Vali Nasr has written that piece ? Something has gone wrong with him then. I was appalled to read statements such as
The clash in November between U.S. and Pakistani forces was a mess, with miscommunication on both sides but fatalities on only one. {How convenient to forget the thousands of fatalities directly attributed to PA}
Pakistan, still seething over the U.S. breach of its sovereignty in the raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound
Americans were understandably angry that bin Laden was found hiding in a Pakistani city, but few knew that the plane that transported his body from an Afghan base to a U.S. Navy ship for a sea burial had to fly over Pakistani territory. {What is he trying to say here, that Pakistan was generous enough to allow that after having hidden OBL for eight years all the while strenously misleading the entire world claiming variously of him having died or escaped to another country or hiding in Afghanistan etc even as it claimed to be fighting global terror and accepting billions of dollars in lieu thereof?}
The U.S. should adopt a long-term strategy that would balance U.S. security requirements with Pakistan’s development needs.{What happened the billions sunk in by the US since the early 50s into Pakistan's development needs ? Pakistan diverted most of it to arming itself against India and funding terrorism, while the rest went into the pockets of the Islamist Generals who plotted against the very aid giver. Is Pakistan even genuinely interested in developing itself ? Geez.}

SSridhar, The US is being bitten by its own folly of filling up their strategic thinkinng spaces with Pakis and near Pakis. They have been feeding ummahfied advice to protect and bolster the Paki image.

Vali Nasr is worried that US will eventually cut TSP to size.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Jul 2012 20:22

Let's have one more Salala please!

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 06 Jul 2012 21:35

I had been meaning to ask for a while and *again* a little ^^.

Every time there is a photo op,

trust deficit

gets mentioned.

Even on the same side, "My" trust issues are going to be different than "yours", leads to lot of pleasantries being exchanged. The term now is a bit over exposed, IMO.

How does one measure it? How does one know tomorrow one has more or less of it than yesterday?

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 06 Jul 2012 22:01

Seven Arrested In UK For Suspected Act Of Terrorism

Any chances of them being from the Land Of Puk* ?? Brits seems think so.

This follows a separate counter-terror swoop in London on Thursday, which saw six arrests in Stratford, east London and Ealing, west London. A former police community support officer and Muslim convert Richard Dart, 29, were said to have been among those held.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 06 Jul 2012 22:18

One of the suspects is Muslim-convert Richard Dart, a former BBC security guard who uses the name Salahuddin al Britani, and rails against Britain's royals and Britain's military. Another one of the three suspects, detained in West London Thursday, is Jahangir Alom, a former community police officer in the United Kingdom.

spells like TSPian, must be TSPian.

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Jul 2012 22:25

Sure we’ll say we’ll share intelligence as long as you seriously don’t expect that to happen. We’ll promise to only transport non-lethal supplies through Pakistan, but as long as privately it’s clear nobody will check our cargo

But how do pakis save their H&D? This is my prediction. US will let them 'randomly' search a few containers and find some 'lethal' equipment which they will seize with lot of fanfare and media coverage and let everything else pass.

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Jul 2012 22:30

Where is Turbat? Is it in Pakiland? When people die in Pakistan, it must be Friday.

Gunmen kill 18 passengers in Turbat

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 06 Jul 2012 22:36

shiv wrote: ...
From the start India has found Pakistan to be an Islamic extremist country with violent irredentist aims within India. The US has considered Pakistan a secular ally and is unwilling to declare the obvious about Islamic extremism and Pakistan.
...

Seems to me there has been a generational shift in Indian thinking. With increased NRI influence, ties with the US etc., has come a dilution of the India-centric "irredentist fanatic" perception of TSP in favor of essentially following the US narrative on TSP. Everything in the choices being made by MMS, DDM, DIE etc., indicates this is so.

Majority of Indians have no direct knowledge of 1971: for those that do, it is an inescapable moral anchor that drags them back after any amount of wanderings into wishful papi-jhapi land. Just as Partition anchored a previous generation. So, Indians now just listen to the loudest voice in the room.

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Jul 2012 23:03

I thought US has agreed to limit the inhumane drone attacks. Oh, well what do I know?

US drone strike kills 17 in North Waziristan

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 06 Jul 2012 23:48

kenop wrote:Just saw Sherry on Times Now talking about the thaw in Pak-US relations. Guess what, a statue of the Buddha was in the same frame. Ya allah, what is the world coming to.

Here's the video .

IMO Pakis may infact be trying to project their cuntry as a land of Buddha these days, but no one has forgotten how pakISI structural engineers were overseeing their taleb birathers in blasting of the Bamiyan Buddha's.
Frankly this paki goal of tranforming their land of paki to land of buddha is impossible to achieve what ever may be the amount of western help they are given in this venture.

But in this specific case , i think Sherry-me-rub-u-longtime is simply imitating indian diplomats like Nirupama Rao etc (quite a few gave interviews with a statue of Ganesha, Natraj etc in background) . She probably thinks its some latest fashion to have a statue in the interview.

partha · Post by **partha** » 06 Jul 2012 23:50

Lilo wrote:.

But in this specific case Sherry-me-rub-u-longtime is simply imitating indian diplomats like Nirupama Rao etc (quite a few gave interviews with a statue of Ganesha, Natraj etc in background)

So then, next interview in Sari and with a bindi?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Jul 2012 23:54

saip wrote:When people die in Pakistan, it must be Friday. Gunmen kill 18 passengers in Turbat

You mean: When it is Friday in Pa'astan, people (must) die.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Jul 2012 23:57

Lilo wrote:
kenop wrote:Just saw Sherry on Times Now talking about the thaw in Pak-US relations. Guess what, a statue of the Buddha was in the same frame. Ya allah, what is the world coming to.
Here's the video .

That carefully cultivated image (bare-headed, english-speaking paki motorma) is for the westerners' consumption. In the next video, she will have a half-smoked cigarette.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Jul 2012 00:29

Acharya wrote:Lot of westerners are quoted as saying that Buddha sites are in Pakistan and also it was the land of the buddha

Chinese also making claim on Buddha. Pakii might be following Chinese Masters . paki do have legeitimate claim on being the Land of Bhuddus , not of Lord Buddha.
The Latest U.S.-Pakistan Deal
Islamabad backs down as its anti-Americanism exacts a diplomatic price..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

Pakistan's demands were partly bluster from the military, which has been looking to salve its pride since the Osama bin Laden raid. But the Obama Administration wasn't exactly eager to make nice with a country Americans increasingly believe is acting in bad faith. The generals also noticed that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta last month reached out to their traditional rivals in New Delhi, and their usual paranoia probably kicked in. It's useful to remind Pakistan it's not indispensable.
The other reason Islamabad adopted such a stance and stuck to it for so long is more worrying. The ruling party—beleaguered at home—had whipped up so much jingoism that it feared a political backlash if it backed down easily. Opposition politicians, mostly from religious parties, are now threatening protests against the government, so Islamabad could yet try to back out of the deal.Pakistan's leaders find it convenient to open the Pandora's box of radical Islam and anti-Americanism for short-term gains. It's Pakistan itself that has paid the highest price for that ugly bargain.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 07 Jul 2012 01:55

partha wrote:
Lilo wrote:.

But in this specific case Sherry-me-rub-u-longtime is simply imitating indian diplomats like Nirupama Rao etc (quite a few gave interviews with a statue of Ganesha, Natraj etc in background)
So then, next interview in Sari and with a bindi?

No next time there will be a statue of Gilani with half erekt mijjile

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Jul 2012 03:11

Once the lobby power reached its limit the real information is coming out
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/360340/ ... y-nato.htm

Reading Pakistan, By The Numbers
Opinion

By ILAN BERMAN: Subscribe to Ilan's RSS feed
July 6, 2012 10:33 AM EDT
Is Pakistan an enemy of the United States? For the past two years, the Obama administration has doggedly maintained that the South Asian nation remains a vital American ally, even as it has grappled with what it itself admits is a "complicated" relationship.

The fiction of Pakistan's friendship, however, is becoming exceedingly hard to maintain, most of all because Pakistanis themselves don't believe it. The latest poll of Pakistani public opinion carried out by the Pew Global Attitudes Project , for example, has found that attitudes toward America-already profoundly negative-have declined still further. To wit, just eight percent of Pakistanis now see the United States as a partner, while nearly three-quarters (74 percent) view it as an enemy. Back in 2009, 64 percent of those surveyed did. Similarly, America's favorability rating, already low, has continued to deteriorate; from 16 percent in 2009 to 12 percent today.

These statistics speak volumes about the true state of relations between the United States and its most troublesome South Asian partner. So does Pakistan's own view of its geopolitical position. In the latest Pew poll, only 45 percent of respondents said it was important to improve ties with the U.S.-down from the 60 percent that held such a view just last year. Pakistan's population, in other words, is increasingly thinking beyond partnership with the United States.

This is perhaps most pronounced on the counterterrorism front. Back in 2009, 72 percent of Pakistanis supported U.S. financial and humanitarian support for their government's fight against Islamic extremists, and 63 percent supported American aid on intelligence and logistical matters as well. Today, by contrast, only half of all Pakistanis approve of U.S. economic and humanitarian aid, and just a third (37 percent) supports intel sharing and coordination.

As for military assistance, the numbers are even worse. Counterterrorism combat operations (carried out through special forces deployments or-increasingly-via drone strikes) have never been popular with Pakistanis, who have tended to view them as an unacceptable encroachment on their national sovereignty. When surveyed by Pew in 2010, less than a quarter (23 percent) of those polled supported such forceful intervention. And a series of Coalition missteps over the past two years has soured the Pakistani public on U.S. military action still further. This includes a tragic November 2011 operation by NATO forces in northwest Pakistan that left 24 Pakistani soldiers dead, precipitating a fundamental political rupture and causing the country to close its borders to the Coalition. Ill-will still prevails; less than a fifth of Pakistanis (17 percent) now support U.S. military operations on their soil, despite the persistence of Islamic extremists in their country's unruly border regions.

Follow us

At least some policymakers in Washington still hold out hope that Islamabad might come around. In time, the thinking goes, Pakistan will resume its role as a critical transport corridor for materiel to the Coalition in Afghanistan, and step up cooperation with the West against Islamist militancy.

The numbers, however, suggest that Pakistan's divorce from the U.S. isn't fleeting, or tactical. Rather, it reflects a slow but building sea change in Pakistani strategic direction.

That direction isn't necessarily Islamist; the same Pew center poll found 55 percent of respondents to view al-Qaeda unfavorably (the same percentage as in 2011), and largely-negative attitudes toward the Taliban and its various factions to be more or less unchanged from previous years. China, by contrast, is seen by 90 percent of Pakistanis as an ally, particularly against regional rival India.

That's not good news for Washington, which currently could benefit from assistance-or at least political support-from Islamabad on a number of key strategic and security fronts. But, with an American disengagement from the War on Terror's first front now on the horizon, it's not too early for policymakers inside the Beltway to begin contemplating what a "post-Afghanistan" relationship with Pakistan might look like. Clearly, the Pakistanis themselves are already doing so.

Ilan Berman is Vice President of the American Foreign Policy Council in Washington, DC.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Jul 2012 04:34

Poaqjabis targeted in Turbat, 18 shot dead
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?pa ... 2012_pg1_1

QUETTA: At least 18 people were shot dead and two others were injured when unidentified armed men opened fire on them on Friday.According to a Levies official, Muhammad Saleem, the victims were boarding a pick-up when armed men opened fire on them. However, the other officials claimed they were waiting for the ride when four armed men reached the spot on motorcycles and opened fire on them, killing 18 people on the spot. The victims included 14 from Punjab.Baloch Liberation Tigers (BLT) Spokesman Meeran Baloch has claimed the group carried out the killings and said that identity cards of the victims were checked before they were killed.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Jul 2012 05:09

1947 Partition Archive

The 1947 Partition Archive is the world's largest collection of Citizen-based oral histories focused on the 1947 India-Pakistan Partition. It is an apolitical project to collect, preserve, and maintain the oral histories of ordinary citizens

Can somebody find out more about this

partha · Post by **partha** » 07 Jul 2012 06:07

Jhujar wrote:Poaqjabis targeted in Turbat, 18 shot dead
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?pa ... 2012_pg1_1

QUETTA: At least 18 people were shot dead and two others were injured when unidentified armed men opened fire on them on Friday.According to a Levies official, Muhammad Saleem, the victims were boarding a pick-up when armed men opened fire on them. However, the other officials claimed they were waiting for the ride when four armed men reached the spot on motorcycles and opened fire on them, killing 18 people on the spot. The victims included 14 from Punjab.Baloch Liberation Tigers (BLT) Spokesman Meeran Baloch has claimed the group carried out the killings and said that identity cards of the victims were checked before they were killed.

From etribune

Abdul Razzaq Sasoli, the acting assistant commissioner, confirmed the death count. Those attacked were trying to travel with the help of smugglers to Europe through Iran, he said.

So now, minorities are not even allowed to escape the sh*thole. If this is not genocide then what is? Where is the civil society which gets all worked up about Palestine, Guantanamo etc etc.