Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Sep 2012 03:07

Anindya wrote:The actual cartoons....

Cartoons with Translations

Not sure if you want to post these cartoons or a link to them on BRF.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 20 Sep 2012 05:43

Jhujar wrote:http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2012/09/coun ... ycott.html
Counterjihad Economic Boycott

I am practicing economic counterjihad. The good thing is that this is one of the sane and non-violent ways of opposing Islam. If I attack a Muslim personally, I will be in trouble. But by refusing to buy from Muslim-owned businesses, I take the economic oxygen out of Islam.When I was checking your site, I did not find any such initiative discussed. For Westerners, this is one of the very effective ways of "applied counterjihad." For example, in London, UK, most of the "Indian" restaurants are in fact owned by Bangladeshi Muslims. So maybe someone can find out which ones are actually owned by Muslims by visiting these places for lunch/dinner and casually talking to the owner/waiter. And once this intelligence gathering is done, the list of these restaurants can be published on counterjihad websites and you can appeal to other Westerners to boycott such places.
Counterjihad involves many different strategies. You should include this economic strategy among the tools available to counterjihadists. This is also a peaceful way which can be practiced individually.
When I share my opinions on some Hindu forums, I get ridicule. But there are also some Hindus who got convinced and are practicing this.

I asked him if I could publish his email on Citizen Warrior, and he said yes but asked me not to use his real name. Then he wrote:
I have a desire to start a blog like yours from the Indian perspective. But I am a bit scared. There is lot of dhimmitude in India. Politicians and general population suck up to Muslims. So if some Muslim complains about my blog, there is a strong possibility of police tracking the user of the blog, thats me. This has happened in India before. So it would be great if you can publish my ideas on your blog. Your blog is great and you seem to have lot of knowledge on these issues unlike many Westerners. But I am just wondering how come you didn't think my idea before. Economic counterjihad is one of the simplest things one can practice.

It may help - but many of these businesses thrive on their closed communities. The huge rate of population growth - whether in non-Muslim or Muslim countries, will ensure that sooner or later the businesses will remain self-sustainable. A lot of Indian businesses seem to be taken over by Pakis or BDites, or "Asian" read Muslims of various Asian nations - in UK and Germany. Germans have devised a more effective way it seems - vigilante action against any small biz that looks like being run by a Muslim. The tactic seems to be making it too costly for the biz to run with repair costs and pushing up insurance premiums.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 20 Sep 2012 09:17

Very interesting. Listen to the entire program...

Debunking the muslim tide -
http://www.npr.org/2012/09/19/161168231 ... uslim-tide

...In the US, 8% of the muslim population justified killing of innocent civilians for a cause. However, in the general non-muslim population that percentage is about 24%...... (Not sure how the survey was done, or whether was it scientific.)

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 20 Sep 2012 10:48

the catch in the above quote may be the definition of "innocent civilians" - I distinctly seem to remember anjem chowdhury giving a definition of "innocent civilians" which did not include non-muslims.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 20 Sep 2012 18:05

French sure have some balls. A French paper is doing a J-P deliberately (cartoons of Mohd). French embassies are on alert.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 20 Sep 2012 23:35

Bill Maher To Muslim Rep. Keith Ellison: The Qur'an Is A 'Hate Filled Holy Book

[youtube]mVTK_XffAvk&feature=related[/youtube]

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 20 Sep 2012 23:49

What he is saying that terrorists do not take their inspiration to kill their infidels from the Koran but cite political injustice as the reason for their acts. He is missing that the Koran gives them the green light to commit horrible acts that a person (Muslim or otherwise) would recoil at. That is why not all Muslims are terrorists.

Muslims who harbor grievances (political or otherwise) use Koran to assuage their conscience. Terrorists are brainwashed by mullahs. They prepare the gunpowder (which is the time consuming part). Koran is used to apply pressure on the trigger (quicker but equally dangerous).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Sep 2012 23:51

^ How is it a political grievance when people put a cutout that reads "Behead anyone who insults Muhammed". What about the insults Muhammed puts on non-muslims?

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 20 Sep 2012 23:54

That is the easy part. Koran is sufficient for it. Brainwashing requires political grievances (videos of Muslims being killed by non Muslims). That is why I said not all muslims are terrorists.

"Behead anyone wo insults Muhammed" is a std muslim fare. It does not require any grievance.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 21 Sep 2012 01:57

Salman Khan had his annual Ganesh Chaturthi celebration at his home. Time for the mullahs to get intense khujlee.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Sep 2012 02:17

nakul wrote:What he is saying that terrorists do not take their inspiration to kill their infidels from the Koran but cite political injustice as the reason for their acts. He is missing that the Koran gives them the green light to commit horrible acts that a person (Muslim or otherwise) would recoil at. That is why not all Muslims are terrorists.

You cannot hold the text supreme and unassailable and claim you are not a terrorist. A terrorist is not terrorizing 24/7 - he/she also eats, seeps, and defecates. There are large portions of the day, week, month, yera or life - when he/she is not doing anything connected to "terror". But he/she holds a text supreme and a divine injunction that conatins all that is necessary to perpetuate terror.

Muslims who harbor grievances (political or otherwise) use Koran to assuage their conscience. Terrorists are brainwashed by mullahs. They prepare the gunpowder (which is the time consuming part). Koran is used to apply pressure on the trigger (quicker but equally dangerous).

Or believers who harbor the text use grievances to assuage their conscience? they could have still tried to use their cosncience to assuage their griveance? But text does not allow it. Its the Kalema that binds them to the obstacle.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 21 Sep 2012 07:15

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Sep 2012 08:05

KJoishy wrote:Salman Khan had his annual Ganesh Chaturthi celebration at his home. Time for the mullahs to get intense khujlee.

That is just good for business.

His audience is largely Hindu by sheer weight of numbers.

Other roper actors don't do this.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 22 Sep 2012 07:33

Hundreds rally at Islamic Center in Dearborn 'to show our unity'

Under a banner that read "Repel Evil With Good," a dozen Muslim and Christian leaders spoke to the crowd at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Sep 2012 21:10

South Thailand bomb attack kills 6, Muslim rebels blamed

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2012 22:54

On the video incident...

It would be stupid for people to demand removing that objectionable video.

Muslims were at wAr with rest of humanity when there was no YouTube, television, radio or anything. They were dying for their religion from the day it started 1400 years ago.

For a person who sees ghosts everywhere and is paranoid about it, it doesn't matter if we put him in a dark room or in sleep. He sees ghosts there too.

Similarly Muslims (of all shapes, colors and genders) are made to see ghosts. Their minds see ghosts where none exist.

P.S: the same applies to all Abrahamics and Hindu Asuras.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Sep 2012 02:40

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 24 Sep 2012 05:15

Zia Haq is a pious mujahid. It's a shame that his parents forgot to add the Ul. I humbly request all to rip him a new one.

Muslim rage: how the Prophet handled insult

Muslims, from Libya to Hong Kong, have exploded again. The rage is against an anti-Islam film, made in the US, and cartoons in France.
In Benghazi, deadly riots had tragic consequences: death of four diplomats, including US Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens.
A 14-minute video was first posted on YouTube on July 1, but it went largely unnoticed until Arab TV stations picked it up. An Egyptian religious channel, al-Nas, broadcast some scenes on September 8. Some scenes were dubbed into Arabic, posted online and viewed by thousands.
These protests, like earlier ones, could be protracted. They could intensify hostility towards America, although, I believe, the US diplomats became a target because the film was made in America. It need not have been so.
US secretary of state Hillary Clinton condemned the film, calling it “disgusting, reprehensible” and rejecting its contents. I believe that Clinton genuinely condemned the video, and did not just mouth platitudes for the sake of preventing more attacks on Americans.
One may dispute US foreign policies, but America’s constitutional commitment to religious freedom is unquestionable. Muslims, as a minority, in America are safer than, say, Christians in Egypt. Religious tolerance is deeply linked to America’s most abiding idea: liberty. America’s founding fathers assumed religious freedom to be the “first liberty”. Therefore, America ought to make religious bigotry a serious punishable offence. Sir, you are still free to practice your religion!
Incendiary films, literature and cartoons that poke Islam are not an expression of free speech. I consider them to be hate speech. Therefore, anybody who hates hate speech must protest. However, it is violence that we must all condemn.
Why is the Muslim world ‘provoked’ and why do Muslims react violently to denigration of Islam or insult to the Prophet?
Any representative portrayal of Prophet Mohammed is itself thought to violate Islamic tenets, let alone making fun of the Prophet. However, the problematic relationship between Muslims and the Western world, especially the US, may have more to do with the ferocity of such outbursts. Going by that logic, since the Koran refers to non-muslims in a derogatory manner, shouldn't we ban it??
In the Muslim world, Islam has a deep resonance in people’s daily lives. In the West, Christianity has been subjected to an utterly private realm, since the separation of the Church and the state. Therefore, the West is sometimes incapable of judging Muslim sensitivities. Besides, there is a great deal of confusion over what Islam is and what it isn’t.
In any case, mainstream Western writers or artists do not indulge in producing work that crudely denigrates either Muslims or Islam, with the exception of Salman Rushdie. Much of the incendiary stuff comes from far-right Christian bigots, who like Muslim bigots, are no better. The Brevik shooting case and, recently, the shooting of US Sikhs are before us. Paki ishtyle ==
The anti-Islam film that triggered the current rage is itself the work of far-right religious groups. Evidence suggests three Christian groups were behind the film. The Southern Poverty Law Council, a prominent anti-White supremacy non-profit, has classified two of these as “hate groups”. Click here A third advocates the cause of Egyptian Christians, or Copts, who have faced worst recent violence from Muslims. See here
Muslims ought to look back at the life of the Prophet, who is the object of universal Muslim love. The Prophet routinely ignored the gravest of insults from his enemies. Then why does it violate islamic law?
Western countries, on the other hand, must shift from just condemning religious bigotry to criminalizing it, building on the UNHRC’s Resolution 16/18. That’s the way forward. AoA! Cure has been found!

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-ca ... ed-insult/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2012 08:43

Thanks to Bji for the insight about Goddess Hecate or Hekkate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deity

Arabian folklore

Allah was worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia and Nabataea with a family of deities around him among which was a triad of goddesses called "the three daughters of Allah": al-Lat ("Mother Goddess of prosperity") Al-Uzza ("Mighty one") the youngest, and Manat ("Fate") "the third, the other".[28][29] They were known collectively as the three cranes.[29] The name al-Lat is known from the time of the histories of Herodotus in which she is named Alilat.[30][31]

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Sep 2012 09:36

Problem is also an opportunity. Big problem , big opportunity. We have seen some major global turning points in last 25 years . Next one is a logical step in the whole sequence of human civilization.

Mujh ko Iss ka soultion batta dho
O wise Brifites.
Curse on Dev Putras , Curse on humanity
How to dissolve this cult of Inanity
Vanity , Insanity and Killanity.

Jahan Jahan par ye thikana banna leey
Wanha pei Butcherkhane bann jaate hai
Dum lette hii phir wanha , Insaaan Bimar ho jatte hai
Jub tuk isska Solution na ho,Mind jarra ghabrata hai
Dekh ke apni nayye generation, taaras unnpar abb atta hai
Kaun Oon ko batlaye ki Future , Life Death struggle kaa aata hai.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Sep 2012 12:48

Some how KFC always brings the best out of the Mujahids.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Sep 2012 13:54

United Nations: Push to call blasphemy a crime

THE divide in world opinion over what constitutes free speech will be on display again this week at the United Nations, where arguments over a proposed blasphemy law were an annual feature for a decade.

This time it is the global reaction to a YouTube video that disparages Islam's prophet Muhammad that is sure to roil the meeting of the UN General Assembly.

Muslim leaders have vowed to discuss the offensive video from their UN platforms, sowing concern among free-speech activists of a fresh push toward an international law that would criminalise blasphemy. Human rights groups and Western democracies resisted such a law for years and thought they had finally quashed the matter after convincing enough nations that repressive regimes used blasphemy laws to imprison or execute dissidents.

''I expect that we'll regress to where we were a couple of years ago,'' said Courtney Radsch, program manager for the Global Freedom of Expression Campaign at the non-profit group Freedom House.

''Human rights are not about protecting religions; human rights are to protect humans,'' she said. ''Who is going to be the decision-maker on deciding what blasphemy is?''

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 24 Sep 2012 14:35

Thank goodness the Islamic countries are sawdust in the overall order of power in the world. Their combined military might even pales before the might of tiny Israel. Their economic prowess is isolated to only parts of the world economy and doesnt have much pull. Just imagine what the world would have come to if they had HAD some semblance of real power in the world affairs. The blasphemy law would have been in place by now in that case.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Sep 2012 14:50

I belive we should have this international Blasphemy law which should apply with retrospective effect for those belive in AIT, insulting Hindu gods also, then most of the miltary leaders, Mullah's and royals in Arabian Muslim countries wil;l also be punished under it.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 24 Sep 2012 18:34

Aditya_V wrote:I belive we should have this international Blasphemy law which should apply with retrospective effect for those belive in AIT, insulting Hindu gods also, then most of the miltary leaders, Mullah's and royals in Arabian Muslim countries wil;l also be punished under it.

Who will punish them? Interpol? Dharmic traditions do not bar people from speaking their mind.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Sep 2012 18:46

^ Dharmics do many things, but it has nothing to do with secular-laws.

Perhaps a Hindu should propose the ban-blasphemy law and come up with objectionable writings in other scripts such as Bible (old and new testaments) and Quran etc., and seek to remove them from records and distribute new scriptures all over the world and destroying all old versions with objectionable texts.

Then grab a plat of mirchi-bajji and watch the fun.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 24 Sep 2012 18:50

Grab some popcorn. The Abrhahamics are at each others' throats again. The US state dept admonished Pakistan for calling for a blasphemy law. They were never known for love. Only tolerance. Even tolerance is slipping. It won't be long before the Muslim world to realise that the Christians are not that powerful as America sets. There will be more calls from jihad from peaceful Muslims living in the ghettos of the Western World.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 24 Sep 2012 19:54

anupmisra wrote:Meanwhile, somewhere in Syria, Assad is going "Thank god for that film".

Ha! I said as much to a liberal friend of mine last week. He said something along the lines of "that filmmaker shouldn't have done what he did, he should have known it would get people killed." To which I replied "Actually, that guy probably saved far more lives than we'll ever realize. Now they probably won't bomb Syria, and the Sunnis won't be able to take over and massacre all the Shias. That 'Innocence of Muslims" guy might have just saved a few hundred thousand lives."

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 24 Sep 2012 20:10

Yogi_G wrote:Thank goodness the Islamic countries are sawdust in the overall order of power in the world. Their combined military might even pales before the might of tiny Israel. Their economic prowess is isolated to only parts of the world economy and doesnt have much pull. Just imagine what the world would have come to if they had HAD some semblance of real power in the world affairs. The blasphemy law would have been in place by now in that case.

They are strategically located, important bankers, oil and terror exporters, drug producers, human traffickers, own and have stakes in imp companies, and have powerful lobbies in the West. They also control a very large and growing Muslim diaspora which is becoming increasingly radical. They don't need a powerful military to take on Israel.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Sep 2012 21:57

Egyptians fast catching up to their Paki birathers

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/ri ... my-charges

Human rights organizations have criticized the arrest of atheist activist Alber Saber.

Saber was originally arrested over claims that he published the anti-Islam film “Innocence of Muslims” on Facebook, but when it emerged that there was no evidence to support the claim, he was later charged on the basis of an atheist video that he had made.

Two days after protests and clashes between security forces and protesters broke out over the film near the US Embassy on 11 September, neighbors of Saber claimed that he shared the anti-Islam YouTube video “Innocence of Muslims” on his Facebook account, which led an angry mob to storm Saber’s house in Marg district, kicking out Saber and his mother.

Kariman Meseha, Saber’s mother, told journalists attending a press conference at the Association for Freedom of Thought and Expression yesterday that she called the police to protect her son, but once police arrived, it was Saber who was arrested, not those who attacked his home.

“Police forces told me that he would be taken to the police station to protect him from the angry mob, and that I could come by the police station the next day to receive him,” Meseha said, adding that the next day, she discovered that he was arrested on blasphemy charges.

AFTE lawyer Ahmed Ezzat said police incited the prisoners against Saber, claiming that he was an atheist and insulted the Prophet Mohamed; one of the prisoners injured him in the neck with a razor blade.

“If the blade was sharper, it would have killed Alber,” Ezzat said.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 24 Sep 2012 22:18

They will return to their roots. The last great push from Islam before it collapses and Muslims fully embrace tribal and feudal culture. I look forward to the bloodbath. Very primitive people.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 24 Sep 2012 22:51

Y. Kanan wrote:
anupmisra wrote:Meanwhile, somewhere in Syria, Assad is going "Thank god for that film".
Ha! I said as much to a liberal friend of mine last week. He said something along the lines of "that filmmaker shouldn't have done what he did, he should have known it would get people killed." To which I replied "Actually, that guy probably saved far more lives than we'll ever realize. Now they probably won't bomb Syria, and the Sunnis won't be able to take over and massacre all the Shias. That 'Innocence of Muslims" guy might have just saved a few hundred thousand lives."

Actually a pretty good answer. Last week I had a similar discussion with a liberal friend and his argument was similar. He was like why throw stones in mud. Film maker should have known how the mobs would react to such work. He said innocent life (US ambassador to libiya) was lost because of this guy and so it was not worth it (making the film). I was shell shocked and had no counter arguments

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Sep 2012 01:13

The roots of Muslim discontent
Fuddu Bhai Ali

(Community /Ummah BS also grant legitimacy to similar punishment)

A third common feature is their recognition of Muslims throughout the world as one community (the Ummah). For them this is not just a figure of speech, or even an intellectual position, but a deeply felt belief. Every Muslim feels himself to be part of this community, and thus connected to each of its members, wherever they may live. Good or ill fortune befalling any part of the community is felt by other Muslims as if it had happened to them or their family.
A fourth common feature among Muslims worldwide is their antipathy to the West. This has nothing to do with the dictates of their religion (as some with vested interests would like people to believe), but is rooted in their history, specifically their feeling of having always been at war with, or under attack by, the West. These wars began soon after the rise of Islam with the conflict with the Byzantine Empire that lasted from the 7th to the 11th centuries. There followed the successive Crusades against the Muslims during the 12th and 13th centuries, while the destruction of the Muslim states in Spain in the Reconquista went on from the 8th to the 15th centuries. The 14th and 15th centuries saw the wars between Europe and the Ottoman Empire. From the 17th century the era of European colonialism bloomed and most of the Muslim world was taken over and brought under Western rule, remaining under subjugation well into the 20th century.
While the details of these earlier conflicts are known only to the educated, they reside in the collective memory that colours the attitudes of succeeding generations. However, several generations of Muslims now living have personally experienced the eras of colonialism and/or post-colonialism. Those who lived through the former not only experienced the humiliation of living under foreign Western rule but also felt their culture to be under attack. The ending of colonial rule often exacerbated old wounds. The botched handover of power by the British in the partitioned Indian subcontinent led to horrendous killings and displacements

http://agonist.org/********/2012092 ... le_prophet

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 25 Sep 2012 01:19

Brad Goodman wrote:
Actually a pretty good answer. Last week I had a similar discussion with a liberal friend and his argument was similar. He was like why throw stones in mud. Film maker should have known how the mobs would react to such work. He said innocent life (US ambassador to libiya) was lost because of this guy and so it was not worth it (making the film). I was shell shocked and had no counter arguments

Shhh... Do not disturb. Important experiment going on to test the hypothesis - "Is Islam a religion of Peace".

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 25 Sep 2012 16:53

Another counter argument that I keep hearing from liberals is. We were disussing TSP and fanaticism of ROP and this guy is like. How was life before partition were the people of that area not living peacefully all these years. What happened during partition was a result of flare up of emotions by few politicians. He did an == with 1992 riots in Mumbai. So things happen we have to forgive/ forget and move on. Now I think this is how the WKK and liberals think. There needs to be a serious writeup to counter these lines of thinking.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 25 Sep 2012 16:55

WKK == is easy to bend. Whenever someone tells me about the goodness of Pakistan, I ask them whether you will be willing to move there. That shuts them up.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 25 Sep 2012 18:00

Brad Goodman wrote:Another counter argument that I keep hearing from liberals is. We were disussing TSP and fanaticism of ROP and this guy is like. How was life before partition were the people of that area not living peacefully all these years. What happened during partition was a result of flare up of emotions by few politicians. He did an == with 1992 riots in Mumbai. So things happen we have to forgive/ forget and move on. Now I think this is how the WKK and liberals think. There needs to be a serious writeup to counter these lines of thinking.

actually, the 3 decades before Partition saw increasing violence against non-muslims. ever since the Khilafat began, the non-muslims were steadily pressured. once ML came into prominence, it was open loot and rape. they didn't even bother playing Taqyia.

also, it can be shown that there was a steady increase in the intensity of clamor of mullahs and Islamic networks all over North India. the call for the Ummah to consolidate had gotten steadily louder in the decades before Partition.

the Moplah Jihad of 1921-22 is also an example of Ghazis inflicting overt violence without mercy or any moral niceties.

also the Partition violence itself should be seen as an attempt to consolidate geographic regions exclusively for Muslims. so violence in areas of Muslim majority or high concentration wasn't "senseless". it was directed at clearing out as many non-muslims as possible so that they don't get shackled with "human rights" of the non-muslims at a later time. it was done under the cover of "emotions" and "volatile moments", but done so that the obstacle to total dominance in that region would be removed in the beginning itself. less headache and bother later. this means there was careful planning involved and it wasn't just "emotions running high".

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Sep 2012 18:52

^^ Devesh ji, Supporting Khilafat movement was Probably MKG's biggest mistake. It practically legitimised Islamic fundamentalism. Although I am of opinion that even without Khilafat, Indian muslims would have accepted islamism. Quran would have ensured it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Sep 2012 19:52

darshhan wrote:^^ Devesh ji, Supporting Khilafat movement was Probably MKG's biggest mistake. It practically legitimised Islamic fundamentalism. Although I am of opinion that even without Khilafat, Indian muslims would have accepted islamism. Quran would have ensured it.

I don't see many seculars calling it a big mistake Publically, the more I think about the more it seems to me for seculars even with Hindu sounding names want to eliminate Hinduism from the face of the earth and for them the partition violence was a good thing.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Sep 2012 20:01

RoyG wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:Thank goodness the Islamic countries are sawdust in the overall order of power in the world. Their combined military might even pales before the might of tiny Israel. Their economic prowess is isolated to only parts of the world economy and doesnt have much pull. Just imagine what the world would have come to if they had HAD some semblance of real power in the world affairs. The blasphemy law would have been in place by now in that case.
They are strategically located, important bankers, oil and terror exporters, drug producers, human traffickers, own and have stakes in imp companies, and have powerful lobbies in the West. They also control a very large and growing Muslim diaspora which is becoming increasingly radical. They don't need a powerful military to take on Israel.

All these Islamic countries are product of the British and western countries in the last 100 years. Before that there was only Ottoman empire, Persia/Iran and Hindustan.