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ks das wrote:I am new here. I wish to gather your opinion upon a plausible aftermath.
Can anybody see what happens if Mr Bukhari comes to fast unto death for prosecuting Mr Modi?
It will make UPA happy. Can fracture NDA coalition.
Even though judiciary will prevail but definitely it will ensure INC govt in the next term too. In addition to that it will attract attention of foreign media.
I am sure Madam Roy, Mander, Naulakha et al. will fast along side him. Though Bukhari is against congress too but this move will help congress, SP and WKKs.
I hope I made my point.
Anna has already promised land allocation reforms and electoral reforms. Do you see leftist inclination wrt land reforms? I seriously hope our parliamentarians have learnt a lesson and they start noticing issues of citizens to not let this kind of movement repeat itself.
Every thing will depend on what is the galvanisation of aam junta, the movement
1. must cut across caste/religious lines
2. represent aspiration of aam aadmi (/aam muslim in this case)
3. aam muslims should feel a connect with Royal Imam and Roy e tal (which will never happen)
I talked to several muslims in department and they do not accept Bukhari as their voice.
Inder Sharma wrote:BJP seems desperate in shoving that long danda up their musharraff which Congress seems to be enjoying right now.
The public mood is extremely hostile to anybody who is seen as opposing or critical of the janlokpal bill since any such opposition is seen as a collusion to perpetuate the present corrupt edifice. While BJP’s criticism may be valid but then such a stance is seen as a malicious red-herring to delay the inevitable.
BJP must realize that it is a party of the middle-class aspirations, and must therefore voice the interests of the middle-class and be seen as convincingly sincere in it. Playing the congress harp will do them no good and they will yield their political space to anybody else who is willing to fill up the resultant vacuum. The least they can do is shut up.
Did the BJP or any of its Leader say it publically or was it the Usual sources game.
The point I am trying to make NDTV and CNN, will make sure BJP is dammed either way. Thats thier job and why thier promotors (offcourse never paid in white money) are paid.
Aditya_V wrote:
The point I am trying to make NDTV and CNN, will make sure BJP is dammed either way. Thats thier job and why thier promotors (offcourse never paid in white money) are paid.
BJP is trying very hard to talk about its official position, whenever they start talking about it, anchors, including Arnab change the topic.
Media does not want to let BJP communicate its pov I think.
Aditya_V wrote:
The point I am trying to make NDTV and CNN, will make sure BJP is dammed either way. Thats thier job and why thier promotors (offcourse never paid in white money) are paid.
BJP is trying very hard to talk about its official position, whenever they start talking about it, anchors, including Arnab change the topic.
Media does not want to let BJP communicate its pov I think.
Isnt that obvious, they want the public let off steam and make sure BJP does not gain in 2014. At same time they want to make sure Cong leaders will make sure they a good % as thier Hafta payment. It is a fine balancing act onlee.
Aditya_V wrote:
Isnt that obvious, they want the public let off steam and make sure BJP does not gain in 2014. At same time they want to make sure Cong leaders will make sure they a good % as thier Hafta payment. It is a fine balancing act onlee.
BJP should make the most of this talent, if available on any basis. What is wrong with that when the other side is knee deep into backstabbing people through media?
Whats the lowdown on Arnab Goswamy? On the face of it, he appears to play quite fair, although there have been times when he tends to stick to questions even when they have been answered within the volume of a panel member's utterances.
^^ I do not agree, there is division and unclear opinion about JLPB in BJP just like congress.
No one wants to ride the tiger.
If Advani today organises a press conference and declares his party is whole heartedly behind JLP Bill
It won't get suppressed irrespective of dhimmi media trying best.
I assure it will be breaking news.
sumishi wrote:Whats the lowdown on Arnab Goswamy? On the face of it, he appears to play quite fair, although there have been times when he tends to stick to questions even when they have been answered within the volume of a panel member's utterances.
Sanku wrote:BJP is trying very hard to talk about its official position, whenever they start talking about it, anchors, including Arnab change the topic.
Gadkari, Modi or Advani should spell out BJPs position. IMO, they should say that they oppose Anna's approach because Parliament is supreme. And in case people want better governance, they should elect a different government. So if Anna wants to gherao MPs, it should be to ask them to vote against the incumbent government in a no-confidence motion.
It is past time that Anna and the rest of this gang be arrested and locked away.
Sanku wrote:BJP is trying very hard to talk about its official position, whenever they start talking about it, anchors, including Arnab change the topic.
Gadkari, Modi or Advani should spell out BJPs position..
I actually think they should maintain a very low profile and make suitable noises, like people are supreme, parliament is also their vehicles, if govt brings the bill they will support, but what to do they are in minority onlee as people did not vote for them.
If I was their strategist, I would ask them to play the victim card (of being in opposition) so they cant do anything
The righteous, muscular strong and clear vision approach is bound to get tripped up. Taqqiya is the need of the hour, civilizational distaste for such methods needs to be tempered.
IndraD wrote:
With BJP on same side as congress vis a vis bill I think conclusion is clear.
JLPB any way can't be made in a day or two, so what will people do if rulers& BJP join hand on bill?
Why are people hell bent on bringing BJP into the picture? Where does BJP come in? What is BJPs role?
Congress can pass the bill if it wants if so chose, BJP cant pass a bill even if it wants.
What BJP can do is block a bill, a la Nuclear liability bill, has it done so for JLB?
================
For the record BJPs position is clear, and they are not with congress, congress mouthpieces should please stop dragging everyone else through their mucky positions.
The Congress led UPA has been stunned by the mainly middle-class movement led by a renowned "neo-Gandhi" that is threatening to destroy the "great game" of the GOP,the anointing of the young "Gandhi" before the next gen. election.The seat-warmer,like an obediant SI,has followed orders faithfully,but has also emerged as the godfather of corruption in the country."Corruption King,Man Mohan Singh",is the slogan one hears these days.His credibilty and reputation as an "honest" man,is as infamous as Mark Anthony's epithet of Brutus being an "honourable" man! The UPA's garbs of credibility lie tattered in the sewer and the good doctor of snake-oil has been exposed to be nothing but a devious chor.
In such a situ,with the Matron of the Party hors-de-combat,the Congress first decided that offence was the best form of defence and tried their best using their spin doctors like Manish Tiwari to throw sh*t at AH.A dismal failure.Not a dog or cat on the street bought his ridiculous accusations.The Party also tried to spin the story that the young "Gandhi" was responsible for AH's release.Abject failure too.Next came sly remarks from Congress agents like Bukhari that AH was "anti-Muslim".Other agents have also tried to say that he is "anti-Dalit".Professional chatteratti activists like Arundathi Roy,piqued at being upstaged by AH who now wears the crown of anti-corruption crusader,were also easily pressed into condemning his movement.Attempts have also been made to widen diffferences within the AH-Team too,with another Ms.A.Roy being roped in to expose her differences.That she met with the young "Gandhi" and is confabulating with the AH-Team today indicates her stroong connections with the C-team! At al costs the Opposition should not become part of the AH campaign and ride on the wave of his success.
Here,the conspiracy theory put forward by a member above,that the Matron has been using and perhaps manipulating social activism for the good of her reputation and tthe interests of the "crown prince",bears a more careful scrutiny.In recent times,the good seat-warmer appears to have his own agenda on many issues which conflict with that of the aprty whose cole interest is to get re-elected at each election and retain power.Dr. "Snake-oil" Singh aka "Uncle Scam",through his acts of commission (pun intended) and ommission,has brought the GOP to its lowest ever level sicne Independence.If an election is held in these times,the utter rout of the GOP and the end of the "great game" appears to be in store for the party and first family.
This is one option being considered according to some analysts.The Congress want AH's health to weaken connsiderably and just before it becomes critical strike a bargain,as if it has saved his life-"such generosity by MMS",while actually wanting AH to quickly fade away from the scene "permanently"! Just as JP's health dramatically deteriorated in the aftermath of '77,thank to his imprisonment,which saw him survive on almost a permanent dialysis,unable to take an active part in day-to-day politics,so too is the hope for AH! Once AH is permanently removed from the scene,the 5th-columnists within the AH-team will see to it that divisions take place ,the movement splits and that the people get dis-illusioned with it and fed up with it allowing it to dwindle into mere dialectic debate.A few corrupt scapegoats will be sacrificed to protect the top drawer of the Party and its cronies, in an attempt to fool the public that "action is being taken".The mantra of growth,"get rich quick" illusionary promises will be dusted off again to garner votes from the middle-class masses and the obliging "vote-banks"!
Last edited by Philip on 24 Aug 2011 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
^^^ What's the vernacular press saying about the BJP? Normally, the Hindi press is too pedastrian for our angrezi anchors to take note of. SO hopefully, they've been able to bring truth to the masses.
BJP's clueless as usual and should helpfully offer to STFU till this mess clears. Anything BJP says or does will be used against them. So best strategy is to say and do nothing. Just ensoi some popcorn and beer maadi...
@ Sanku- the concept along with the bill is about transparency and accountability, I simply want BJP to have a clear view about the bill and as it is going it looks like they are not for bill (so far).
We want to get rid of congress but by a party with nationalist view and commitment to eradicate corruption. Would you be happy to see con A replaced by con B?
IndraD wrote:@ Sanku- the concept along with the bill is about transparency and accountability, I simply want BJP to have a clear view about the bill and as it is going it looks like they are not for bill (so far).
If you have not seen their stand, whose fault is that? I ask it seriously. The media for not giving them space? For people for not listening?
If all people can do is ==, they will get congress and keep getting s*****. They should get used to that and not thrash about so much.
Hari Garu wrote:^^^ What's the vernacular press saying about the BJP?
Mostly nothing. Similar to ELM, but 10x lower. Focus is elsewhere.
Sanku wrote:If you have not seen their stand, whose fault is that? I ask it seriously. The media for not giving them space? For people for not listening?
If all people can do is ==, they will get congress and keep getting s*****. They should get used to that and not thrash about so much.
The BJP's, and to an extent AH moment's, first fault is not projecting successfully that this 'two sides' here is 'Govt v/s AH' and not 'Conparty v/s AH'. So whenever this fructifies, road is open for RG naturally for his royal stroll, let Govt be damned. This is a major disservice from all sides.
On the other hand, whenever a 'strict JLPBill' comes into force , RG will find himself strolling into something unexpectedly slippery, where a JLP fellows could ask him why should he be not punished when he slips.
Perhaps all the corrupt in India are going into a spin on how to avoid slipping, and not be in the wrong books of JLP thus all the jostling & hassling. A new independent scrutinizer is emerging, and hopefully it will only be about accountability, not increase corruption.
Inder Sharma wrote:A lot of naare-baazi and naraazji by the ramlila protestors against HT, NDTV and Newx.
HT owners are especially receiving a lot of ‘affection’ from the protestors; many of whom are accented Anglophonic professionals. Any reason for this?
HT is a congress mouthpiece. Officially it was created for that purpose by MKG and Birla, unfortunately, they also lost their way as congress lost its.
Yashwant Sinha, Shatrughan Sinha accuse BJP of 'lip service' on Hazare issue, offer to quit
"A kind of fanaticism is sought to be created around the movement and I find that little boys too are on the scene. The way of Anna Hazare's movement is anti-democratic to the core," -Somnath Chatterji criticises AH http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story ... 48936.html
BJP MP Chandan Mitra said:
- There are differences within the party.
- We want Anna Hazare to end his fast soon.
Open support of these groups might blunt the affect of Bukhari and Deoband.
LUCKNOW: The Royal Family of Awadh has extended its support to Anna Hazare's anti-corruption movement. And have decided not to celebrate Eid as a mark of their protest this year. General secretary Royal Family of Awadh (RFA) Sikoh Azad on Tuesday said, "Nearly 20,000 RFA members will not celebrate Eid-ul-Fitr to express solidarity to Anna Hazare's crusade against graft." He added that members of the royal family would go to Delhi to take part in Hazare's campaign. Regarding Jan Lokpal Bill, Azad said that Jan Lokpal Bill will help in bringing a change for the royal families. It will further help them in getting pension in accordance with present day's inflation. Azad also said that only Rs 22,000 is being distributed among 1,260 families presently. He has also demanded the removal of Congress spokesman Manish Tiwari for his remarks against Hazare.
Mahendra wrote:Jatiley mama is good for talk shows only
Well there are a lot of people who want to judge things by their talk.
At least these guys should shut up after Jaitely mama.
Even Shri Jeitely and AH should know that no one lives on an Island and it is beneficial to be in power for a good cause.
Conparty has to be very aggressive otherwise it will be in the dumps given its tastes; and conparty is aggressive. Baba Ramdeva's campaign was conparty v/s Baba Ramadeva right from the moment when he was 'welcomed at his arrival'.
BJP & AH should know, according to me, that it is good to drive JLPBill, but also deal with show that could affect voting. After all, voting is legitimate activity, however affected. BJP is lacking in leading from the front in these lines and converting this into votes, what is wrong with this? Indeed studying how state level leaders NaMo, Nitish Kumar, JJayalalita, Naveen Patnaik, etc. have cornered Conparty in respective states could be helpful. For example, BJP should project how AHji pointed out deficiencies in Conparty Govt. stand.
Pune Rajya Sabha MP Prakash Javadekar of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Tuesday announced his support for the Jan Lokpal Bill.
This comes a day after two Shiv Sena MPs from Pune — Shivajirao Patil from Bhosari constituency and Gajanan Babar from Maval constituency — expressed their support towards the movement
Pratyush wrote:
Too early to say if this is an actual news or just another plant.
I understand Congress is trying its usual tacit right now, of passing on useless assurances to lull the Anna camp into a sense of security and then turn back and hit back. Like at Ramlila.
Thats why the insistence on concrete/written steps.
CPIM has come up with their suggestion for Lokpal Bill. Have to admit that it looks better than Anna's sea-will society led Lokpal. http://www.cpim.org/content/stand-lokpal
Both BJP and Congress ,according to Mr Advani are two faces of the same coin,.
In this situation what BJP will do is they will join hands with congress against this activist gang.
It may end up having a similar bill as Jan lokpal version,but Anna's demands are ever rising and people are associating themselves with his basic demands and ultimately to whatever he is saying .This latter part aint good for the structural integrity of this most complex democracy,which should always be strong,otherwise chaos may be more frequent than we have seen yet.
Dilbu wrote:CPIM has come up with their suggestion for Lokpal Bill. Have to admit that it looks better than Anna's sea-will society led Lokpal. http://www.cpim.org/content/stand-lokpal
I don't see any fundamental differences between the two, the main principles are almost identical, the key points like nature of selection committee (apolitical) ; jurisdiction (from top to bottom); state lokayukta (both for) et al are pretty much the same.
The only difference is in Judicial commission vis a vis Lokpal, a point which everyone is open on.
This looks better probably because the Anna draft is in form a of detailed legalese draft, and this one is only talking of broad principles.
1) Sonia Gandhi proved that Indian Parliamentary Democracy could be subverted, by creating a center of extra-constitutional power.
2) In Sonia Gandhi's darbaar, many unelected "civil society" types started exercising extra-constitutional power. But between them were struggles. Some became Insiders, some became Outsiders.
<snip>
Good stuff. However, I am not sure about the motivations sought to be ascribed to Kejriwal (not sure about others like Prashant Bhushan). From his history and actions, he seems very forthright. It is clear that Anna is the "heart" of the movement and Kejriwal and team are the "brains".
The best outcome of the movement so far has been to demonstrate to all the MPs the people's support for a stronger Lok Pal. Some MPs are already expressing opinions counter to their parties' official position (or lack of it). Hope that this dissuades parties from issuing whips when voting actually happens. Somehow I think that this was the original intent of Kejriwal and co all along.
"Mexican standoff" what? It is all posturing on the part of the UPA.Uncle Scam and his corrupt scamsters want to save face and say that they never succumbed to "blackmail" taking cover behind the figleaf of "parliament is supreme,blah,blah...".
Unfortuantely,the dam has burst as far as the Indian populace is concerned and country-wide protests against misgovernance and malfeasance will be the order of the day.
