Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

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Mort Walker
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote: Then its even more dangerous coz those type of end-users are most unforgiving and their experience is all that matters to them, technology gaya bhaad main! :mrgreen: Try explaining to a Venusian that despite having adopted all the wonderphool technology, why is the network reliable at home but not reliable somewhere else (high QoS variability) or why does it work fantastic sometimes but other times it fails (unreliability). Do you think they care about the technology and how wonderphool it is, when somebody beat them to a tweet?
Then I tell SHQ she's not holding her phone right. She needs to hold it like a mijjle. :lol:

Raja Bose wrote: Try explaining that to the mango abdul who cannot afford to put up a single chunk of cash to buy a $700-800 unlocked smartphone. Massa consumers are largely wired to phone subsidisies and I don't see that changing any time soon given the hand-to-mouth and credit card centric spending habits in massa. So, the above may sound good on paper and might be practical in other countries but not in massa. Companies like Gumboot learnt this the hard way and so did Chacha on a much smaller scale.
That is why everyone should get their phone from the Google Play store unlocked for $350. Pay now or pay later, there is no free lunch. Get a $200 subsidized phone and then pay $75/month for 2 years. Pre-paid plans are $20-$25 cheaper every month for similar usage, but you get no subsidized phone. That is a $480-$600 savings over two years and a true user experience from the phone manufacturer. As an aside, the telecom companies are reducing the discounts on many subsidized phones as well. I would get the Nokia Lumia 920 to play with if Nokia and MSFT sold it unlocked for $500.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Oh ATT sucks that is why I dropped them, but you have to give them credit where its due. In the last 18 months, they have improved their network, obviously not for everyone, but it has.
There you go, now you and me are speaking the same language. BTW no credit is due to them till they fix their network (the bolded part).

Now speaking of maps, here is Chacha on iPhunwa5 - note the Golden Gate Bridge :((

...and Mortullah, pay close attention to the ATT signal bars in the photu :P

Image

...and that's the battery left after essentially 5 hours of standby - no phones calls/web browsing nothing! And people tell me smartphones are not like toys :P
Last edited by Raja Bose on 13 Oct 2012 06:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote: I would get the Nokia Lumia 920 to play with if Nokia and MSFT sold it unlocked for $500.
You can buy it from Amazon unlocked once the retail opens. All their other phones were available unlocked on GB. Got an international edition GS III yesterday from there.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SaiK »

If I am out of this sprint subsidy employee family and friends plan, I would automatically choose Verizon
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Obviously not for everyone does not mean all. I hate ATT, but I also hate VZW, but not as much because so far I've been able to talk to knowledgeable people where I'm at to resolve my issues.
Raja Bose wrote: Now speaking of maps, here is Chacha on iPhunwa5 - note the Golden Gate Bridge :((

...and Mortullah, pay close attention to the ATT signal bars in the photu
The bars don't necessarily tell the full story. The phone could be defective, the case (or the way you hold it) attenuates the signal, you could be in a steel building or a defacto Faraday cage. You could also be in a dead zone which happens with all carriers in different locations. The picture would be more informative with a couple of phones from different manufacturers running an RF analyzer app showing signal strength in dBm (decibels per milliwatt) and SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) at different times of the day. You need to call ATT, or better yet visit with ATT, and have a trouble ticket opened in your location. The more pressing issue may be in your area ATT is unable to put up more towers due to local regulations and California nut jobs. This would affect all carriers in the next year or two when more people start using the available bandwidth on their smartphones. Yes, I know you don't care. None the less it is important to find out.

It would be interesting to see what signal strength is for other carriers as well.

Raja Bose wrote:...and that's the battery left after essentially 5 hours of standby - no phones calls/web browsing nothing! And people tell me smartphones are not like toys :P
Don't use an iPhone then. :) What this tells me is that there are processes trying to access the network (which is unavailable) and have the radio on which is draining the battery.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 13 Oct 2012 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

SaiK wrote:If I am out of this sprint subsidy employee family and friends plan, I would automatically choose Verizon

Just remember, if you travel internationally and like to have the ability to receive calls on the number you already have, a CDMA phone will leave you out of service. The way VZW and Sprint have it setup today is that you can not get voice and data at the same time. That too is important to some people. For instance getting directions on voice and using your map to navigate.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote:Obviously not for everyone does not mean all. I hate ATT, but I also hate VZW, but not as much because so far I've been able to talk to knowledgeable people where I'm at to resolve my issues.
Raja Bose wrote: The more pressing issue may be in your area ATT is unable to put up more towers due to local regulations and California nut jobs. This would affect all carriers in the next year or two when more people start using the available bandwidth on their smartphones. Yes, I know you don't care.
Mortullah, nope, phone is perfectly fine (this phone gets put on test rigs so it has been checked out very thoroughly for defects), holding it right, right in the middle of what according to ATT's internal coverage maps is supposed to be awash with ATT network in chi-chi bay area which is one of the largest consumers of mobile data in the US - nope no Faraday cage environment either. This is not merely about signal bars or some UI bling, in the past we have done detailed network performance analysis across all major khan carriers. The pic just shows nothing has changed when it comes to ATT despite all the promise I hear.

I think ATT is a victim of terrorism much like Pakistan - how come VZW has no deployment issues due to local regulations and PRC nutjobs? Maybe they should take a leaf out of the Fruit Co. marketing playbook and run ads showing that other networks suck too. :mrgreen: Only perhaps then kasht-mars will give them a free pass. Asking kashtmars to do SNR analysis will not cut it. And only Fruit Co. gets a free pass on asking people to hold it right :P

Haven't checked the process log yet for energy stats so dunno who was eating the power. In the older iPhunwas it would be the app processor instead of the baseband processor due to some busy-wait crap. iOS is a fairly primitive OS internally so I wouldn't be surprised if there were hacks just to get the thing out with Mahdi not cracking the whip.
Last edited by Raja Bose on 13 Oct 2012 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote: The way VZW and Sprint have it setup today is that you can not get voice and data at the same time. That too is important to some people. For instance getting directions on voice and using your map to navigate.
Voice as in turn-by-turn directions? :-?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SaiK »

So, mort on monday, I can get automatic service (say airtel) when I land in desh on tue morning? this would be the phree iphone-4!

I thought you said earlier, it has a built in GSM... or was it the ip5 wala?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

SaiK wrote:So, mort on monday, I can get automatic service (say airtel) when I land in desh on tue morning? this would be the phree iphone-4!

I thought you said earlier, it has a built in GSM... or was it the ip5 wala?
It is the GSM section in iPhone4/4s/5. You are going to be hit massive intl. roaming charges of $2-$3 min + couple of bucks per KB.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:
Mort Walker wrote: The way VZW and Sprint have it setup today is that you can not get voice and data at the same time. That too is important to some people. For instance getting directions on voice and using your map to navigate.
Voice as in turn-by-turn directions? :-?
No. When you talk to someone while navigating.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SaiK »

I don't see any slot on the iphone.. where is the slot? there is only one big slit that I use to connect to usb.

--

btw inflight GSM service, these fellas don't cover asia
check the map: http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/themen/net.html

but 20 euros is like $50 bucks! dang! well, All I need to charge my laptop. hope they have a power slot, or would that be priced as well?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by RamaY »

I think RB mullah is the drain on his ifunwas battery :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote: No. When you talk to someone while navigating.
You and your data hogging google maps. :P Get Gumboot maps - no need for data connection so you can talk while navigating.

YamaR mian, thank Allah I dont use it for my personal phone - I would then need a charger in car, apphice, home, paki restaurant, pakistan, Allah knows where else, just to ensure the precious jewel of Mahdi doesn't get its 72.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by ramana »

Mort and RB, I called ATT and got the Samsung unlocked. And will have someone get a prepaid SIM card for it in desh. Thanks for all the advice.


The guy was telling me its quite popular to get the quad band phones unlocked for use in Europe too!
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by ArmenT »

Posting from /.
The Three Pillars of Nokia's strategy have all failed. Why Nokia must fire CEO Elop now.
Pretty damning article by an ex-Nokia higher up. I was not aware that in 2010, Nokia was actually the biggest smartphone manufacturer and 2x the size of its nearest competitor in smartphone sales and growing. It was also the best selling smartphone on 6 out of 7 continents. The Nokia App store was #1 in all non-English speaking countries. Elop managed to screw it up big time.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Tomi and Eldar each have their axe to grind with GB for a long time, so their comments don't necessarily come out of any foresight or wisdom but more like riding the wave while the going's good. GB's troubles started back in 2006 (rather than 2010) when the management mantra became to double down on non-touch phones with a million variants, missing the software centric/touch design, while only making pretty powerpoints about services without executing on them. I have noticed that in all large companies there is a substantial amount of built-in inertia which delays the effect of catastrophic decisions so people get a misguided sense of when things actually started going downhill. Fruit Co. might have the same problem - people are going look how well Bawarchi is managing without the Mahdi, the truth is that right now it is cruising on inertia.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Lilo »

Image
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by rohitvats »

OK. Went ahead and bought the Samsung Tab 2. Been one day so far...works pretty fine and serves all the purpose for which I wanted it. That 7 inch screen offers the portability as well as legibility....Need to move around a lot nowadays and needed something for official as well as entertainment use. And Google Play-store has hell lot of free games for time pass.

Pretty handy I must say. Seems to be doing pretty well in terms of sales. The store I bought it from was selling 3-4 units per day. Spoke to the salesman about the reason and as per him, the price point is the sweet spot. Plus, Sammy never tires of saying that it comes with ICS and Dual Core processor. The older version has a better processor but no ICS and is more expensive at ~INR 27K. This one is INR 19.25K. And tell you what, it is not exactly cumbersome to make or take call from it..even w/o speaker phone or headsets.

BTW, a small observation - the next generation of Apple worshiping generation is in the process of gaining momentum. And these are 12-16 year old kids of people who can afford such stuff...from businessmen to real estate agents to corporate crowd. Went window shopping into couple of multi-brand electronic store and kids were all gathered around the Apple Display area.

And finally, Kindle is in India at Croma stores..selling for INR 6.9K.

So, how does it work? I purchase e-books from internet and read the same on this device? And are these e-books (which can be read on kindle) available from multiple sites or is Amazon the only vendor? And are e-books cheaper than physical ones? The device I think has memory of 2GB. Can these -ebook be stored on PC/Desktop and then transferred to Kindle?

Thanks for the patience.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by anmol »

ArmenT wrote:Posting from /.
The Three Pillars of Nokia's strategy have all failed. Why Nokia must fire CEO Elop now.
Pretty damning article by an ex-Nokia higher up. I was not aware that in 2010, Nokia was actually the biggest smartphone manufacturer and 2x the size of its nearest competitor in smartphone sales and growing. It was also the best selling smartphone on 6 out of 7 continents. The Nokia App store was #1 in all non-English speaking countries. Elop managed to screw it up big time.
Raja Bose wrote:Tomi and Eldar each have their axe to grind with GB for a long time, so their comments don't necessarily come out of any foresight or wisdom but more like riding the wave while the going's good. GB's troubles started back in 2006 (rather than 2010) when the management mantra became to double down on non-touch phones with a million variants, missing the software centric/touch design, while only making pretty powerpoints about services without executing on them. I have noticed that in all large companies there is a substantial amount of built-in inertia which delays the effect of catastrophic decisions so people get a misguided sense of when things actually started going downhill. Fruit Co. might have the same problem - people are going look how well Bawarchi is managing without the Mahdi, the truth is that right now it is cruising on inertia.
See this :- http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/the-sto ... okia-meego

This article is largely based on info from past and present Nokia employees.. what they say happened before Nokia announced partnership with MS.
Nokia before MeeGo: OSSO and Maemo

Since 2005, a very small group of people with limited resources at Nokia developed a Linux based Maemo operating system and devices based on it. [..] All the way from the beginning the group was headed by Ari Jaaksi, who resigned in October 2010 and moved to HP to develop the WebOS operating system.

Nokia 770

The first two devices were the 770, released in 2005, and its follower, the N800, released in 2007. Both were developed with very small resources. Because the team was small, only a few dozen employees, software development was nimble and fast.

Nokia N800

There was no unnecessary bureaucracy to slow down the development and employees described product development as a playground. Products were mostly made by subcontracting without a top organization or support from certain sector’s professionals. No one intervened with the process and it resulted in quality problems in finished products. [..]

Most of the people we interviewed from Nokia said that Nokia used too much subcontracting. Building specific knowledge from scratch inside the company is expensive and time consuming, and the OSSO team’s resources were limited.

There were a lot of problems, it was difficult to keep hold of the quality of the subcontractors’ work and the contracts weren’t supervised properly. The subcontractors could cheat in the contracts by changing the best experts, who were there in the beginning, to less qualified people. Examples given included bad code written in India and the communication problems with the Chinese and the Japanese because of their poor English skills. All this resulted in more additional work and delays for the project managers in Finland, when they had to take measures to repair the errors and poor quality.

At the same time the team size grew and so did the bureaucracy with it. This caused lessening of agility in the software development, which slowed down the development. Especially the improvement suggestions that came from the MeeGo team developers were hard to get accepted and many left the improvement suggestions unmade because of this. One example of this was told to have been the up-down swiping gesture in the Swipe User interface, which closes the current application. The suggestion was knocked down right away, but the developer did not give up, sharing the example of the functionality for others to test instead. As a result there was a several hundred message long conversation thread in the Bugzilla, which was the internal bug reporting system at Nokia, where the management and developers confronted each other over this feature. Finally the feature was included and in PR 1.1 software update it was in use as a default.

First signs of Nokia’s internal competition between two platforms were seen with the N810 device. It was released in late 2007 and entered the market without phone functionality. It would have been Nokia’s first Maemo phone, but the decision to leave out the phone functionality was said to have been completely political.

Nokia N810

According to a Maemo team member we interviewed, Symbian team directors were afraid of the possible competition between the N810 and the Symbian based communicator. Already in 2005 and 2006 it was obvious for some people that Symbian is an old and outdated platform. Adding an effective touchscreen user interface to Symbian would have been challenging. This initiated an internal competition between the Symbian and Maemo teams.

N900

[..] The N900 used the Maemo 5 OS, codename Fremantle. Its Hildon UI was written in GTK+. In parallel with the N900, development of Maemo 6, codenamed Harmattan, was started. Its UI would be completely rewritten in Qt.

Nokia continued to develop both Symbian and Maemo for touch screen enabled smartphones side by side, since Symbian was still selling well, and no one guessed how quickly iOS and Android based phones would revolutionize the smartphone market. Inside Nokia, members of the Maemo team thought that the managers of the Symbian team were afraid for their jobs, and used their positions within the company to slow down the development of Maemo by any means they could.


Nokia Maemo + Intel Moblin = MeeGo

At the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona in February 2010, Nokia and Intel announced that they would combine their Linux based operating systems in development into a new joint project; MeeGo.

Back then Nokia was developing the Maemo 6 operating system which was the successor of the Maemo 5 used in 2009 in Nokia’s N900 smartphone. Intel had been developing its Moblin operating system (Mobile Linux) since 2007 and the latest Moblin 2 version was specifically designed to operate in Netbooks with Intel x86 architecture Atom processors. MeeGo had the Qt development environment and it utilized the core from Moblin.

Nokia and Intel believed that device manufacturers, operators, semiconductor manufacturers, software and application developers would take MeeGo into large scale use. It was estimated in the press release that Nokia and other manufacturers would have introduced MeeGo-based devices during the year 2010. [..]

Harmattan

Nokia had started developing the Maemo 6 operating system already in 2008, and was quite far in the development before Nokia and Intel decided to merge Maemo and Moblin into MeeGo. [..]

Harmattan was supposed to act as a bridge between Maemo and MeeGo, which was being developed in cooperation with Intel. Harmattan was developed to be API (Application Programming Interface) compatible with MeeGo version 1.2. Debian’s .deb-packaging was to be used as the binary package system for the applications, while in MeeGo the choice was RPM-packaging (Red Hat Package Manager).

Problems with user interface development tools

At about the same time in 2008, Nokia bought Qt from the Norwegian Trolltech, which is a platform-independent development environment for software and user interfaces with C++ support. After acquiring Qt, the Symbian and Maemo teams started developing their own smartphone OS UI development tools based on Qt’s QGraphicsView. The Symbian team’s development tool was known as Orbit, while the Maemo team’s was known as libdui (Direct UI Library). Hundreds of people worked on these projects at Nokia, and many thought it made no sense at all.

Soon in the development of libdui, it was discovered that QGraphicsView was quite unfinished, and new problems were found in Qt itself. QGraphicsView didn’t have any support for widgets, so those had to be developed on top of the QGraphicsView. Continuously changing user interface development requirements caused internal problems within the development team, and applications were already being coded on top of libdui, although its development wasn’t finished yet.

Orbit, which was developed by the Symbian team, had a very similar appearance to the libdui. However, these did not share any code. It was frequently rumored and apparently at some point even decided that Orbit was to replace libdui, which would imply a total rewrite for the Harmattan’s user interface layer. The plan was dropped in the end, but several months of work had already gone to waste. [..]

Harmattan User Interface (UI)

The Harmattan UI was originally based on the Activity Theory principle, a frame of reference for studying human behavior and development processes. The goal is to understand society, personality and, most importantly, how these two are connected. The theory was originally developed by the Russian psychologist Vygotsky. [..]

Showing running applications as shortcuts, which was a popular feature in the N900, was utilized when designing the user interface for Harmattan. The requirements for the concept of the Harmattan user interface included support for mobile internet, awareness of social media, multitasking, personalization and beginner and expert user modes. It had to be clear to the user how to personalize the device to their taste. [..]

From the main view there should have been quick access to key features, such as contacts, phone, emails, browser and search. In a status area there should have been appropriate markers which tell the user what is, for example, consuming battery.

The first Harmattan UI

There were shortcomings in the inner communication of the Maemo organization and the original concept became remarkably more complicated. The result was predominantly a modern version of the Symbian user interface. The first realized concepts comprised of a home screen, onto which widgets could be added, an application switcher, a notification area and an application launcher.

During 2009 the original concept and the theories behind it were expanded due to the changes in the design team and the constant communication problems. Instead of a few canvases only, the screen became filled with many big canvases, with a great number of widgets inside them. The requirements expanded and the number of homescreens had to be increased to more than just one. The user interface was becoming disorganized and complicated, especially for the developers, but the feedback from user tests was better than ever before. The intention was to invest in graphical elements in the Harmattan UI, but the investment wasn’t visible in the first practical versions of the UI. [..]

Simple Dali UI

The people who became the directors of the user interface design in late 2009 didn’t understand the whole concept of the Harmattan UI and it was abandoned. In late December 2009, development for a new concept called Simple Dali UI began. With its completely different model of thought the last remains of the original Activity Theory were abandoned. [..]

The user interface became very similar to competing smartphones in the market. Although the UI was cleaner and familiar looking for the developers, it wasn’t competitive. Linux and open source weren’t sufficient selling points for consumers. [..]

In the spring of 2010 suspicion started to arise that the Simple Dali UI concept wouldn’t be competitive enough. Multi-tasking alone couldn’t create good of a story enough to sell the devices and the user interface. In the background new enhancements for the UI were being made and some of the old requirements were being brought back.

Swipe UI

In the August of 2010 the third UI for Harmattan began development. First working prototype of the Seattle-codenamed UI was finished in a couple of days. From the first concept pictures it was apparent that the UI was probably the best ever seen in smartphones. In the Seattle UI the investment in graphical design was clearly visible and it brought back some of the basic principles of the original Harmattan UI, which were ignored in the Simple Dali UI.

According to many of the people we interviewed, Seattle UI or Swipe UI concept was designed by the 80/20 design studio from New York, which employs several ex-Apple and ex-Adobe employees. [..]

Harmattan and MeeGo devices developed by Nokia

According to an employee who worked in OSSO, Maemo and MeeGo teams from the beginning, Kai Öistämö’s (the manager of the Nokia Devices unit from 2007 to 2010) original MeeGo strategy was to develop one flagship phone to the market per year, just like Apple does. At least in this strategy, there weren’t plans to pump out a lot of MeeGo devices to the market at the same time. Instead, completing even a single device required a lot of work and developers realized that it was a very challenging task.

Columbus (RM-581)

The codename of Nokia’s first Harmattan device was Columbus, which was supposed to be released during the first half of 2010, only a few months after the announcement of the Meego cooperation between Nokia and Intel.

However, mix-ups and delays in the development of the Harmattan UI, Columbus was delayed from the original release schedule. The release was cancelled in the end of 2009, when the development of the Simple Dali UI was started for a new device codenamed Dali. [..]

N9-00 ”Dali” (RM-680)

After the delays in the development of the Harmattan UI and the cancellation of Columbus, a new device codenamed Dali, with a QWERTY keyboard was used as a development platform device. Dali was the development platform for the Simple Dali UI in spring of 2010. It replaced the original Harmattan UI that was cancelled in the end of 2009.

Dali was supposed to be released to the market as the N9-00. However, the release was decided to be cancelled because it was deemed obsolete at time it would hit the shelves. A great number of devices (92,000) had already been already manufactured, so Dali was finally released at the same time with the N9 as a developer-only device, called N950. It couldn’t be bought but Nokia borrowed them for developers. [..]

N9-01 ”Lankku” (RM-696)

On June 21st 2011, Nokia published the N9, codenamed Lankku. It used the Meego 1.2 Harmattan operating system. Instead of marketing it as a MeeGo phone, it was mostly marketed with its design and the Swipe UI. The body of the N9 is produced by milling the cover from one piece of polycarbonate, and on top of it there is curved protective glass. Nokia has later used the design of the N9 in its Lumia Windows Phones and won many design prizes. Elements from the Swipe UI have been used in Nokia’s affordable Asha phones. [..]

”Soiro” (Intel MeeGo)

Nokia developed a device based on Intel’s Atom SoC and x86 architecture under the codename “Soiro”. There is only a small amount of information available regarding this device but it utilized the same design as the ”Lauta”, which means it also had a slide-out QWERTY keyboard.

Instead of Harmattan, “Soiro” used the Ilmatar platform, which meant RPM-packaging for the software installation and hardware adaptation for Intel’s hardware. According to the software developers we interviewed, working with the Ilmatar platform and Intel’s hardware was extremely challenging.

Ilmatar’s user interface was supposed to use a different approach, where the aim was to discover what information would be available from the user using modern technology and how that information could be utilized in the user interface itself. Ilmatar’s new and different user interface was supposed to be one of the selling points of Nokia’s Intel-Meego device.

”Senna” tablet

Many ex-Nokians we interviewed confirmed that the design of the Senna codenamed tablet was seen in the design patents that appeared in public. Senna was like a giant N9 that was based on ST-Ericsson’s NovaThor U8500 platform and 1080p video could be shot with the camera on the back. Senna used a public version of MeeGo instead of Harmattan, but the user interface and the apps were the same as in the N9. [..]

Nokia’s and Intel’s co-operation

In the Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo era Nokia had strongly focused outside of the United States and especially at the end of the Kallasvuo era Nokia’s stand had collapsed in the North America and the situation was dire. Apple’s iPhone and Google’s Android provided an easier user interface than Symbian and Nokia only had products sold in the global market to offer for the demanding operators and the American customers.

By the beginning of 2010 at the latest, it began to be clear that the North American market was going to be dominated by LTE networks and LTE enabled phones. At the same time Nokia was making critical decisions on the hardware to be used in the future MeeGo devices


In October 2008 Texas Instruments announced that they would stop investing in smartphones’ baseband modems and that they were looking for someone to purchase the wireless department. Being in a weak economic situation, TI meant to save about $200 million and focus solely on the development of the OMAP 4 application processor.

For Nokia this meant the end of the TI OMAP path for MeeGo, because the company had decided to buy the smartphone chipsets, that is the application processor and the baseband modem from the same vendor. Nokia had used TI’s OMAP SoCs in all of its earlier Maemo devices and was also developing its Harmattan devices based on the TI OMAP 3640. [..]

The alternatives to the OMAP 3 line SoCs by TI were Qualcomm and Intel, of which Nokia ended up opting for Intel. Qualcomm would have offered to do the hardware adaptation, that is the lowest level of the software that connects the operating system to the chipset, but wouldn’t help developing the operating system, i.e. Harmattan or MeeGo. Intel had the freshly made MeeGo cooperation going for it.

Motorola, Driving 4G: WiMAX & LTE (PDF)

An interviewee described the decision concerning Intel as a disaster, however Qualcomm probably had not prioritized MeeGo very high compared to other projects such as Android and Windows Phone.Choosing Intel ignored the North American market entirely, because Intel did not have sufficient plans for supporting CDMA-networks, which are widely used in the United States.

Nokia and Intel had also invested heavily in the development of the fourth generation network technology WiMAX, which was competing in parallel with LTE. Of these competing 4G technologies, WiMAX came to the market first when Sprint built the first 4G network in the US using the WiMAX technology. The development, however, was slow and in practice the network’s data transfer speeds were far from the theoretical maximum speeds.

The better compatibility, reliability and actual transmission speeds offered by LTE has made it the technology of choice for network operators when building their 4G networks. When Nokia was making their future hardware choice after TI’s OMAP, Intel didn’t have proper plan or schedule for LTE support.

Even today, 2.5 years later, Intel is not offering integrated LTE support in their latest Medfield Atom SoC, but has announced to start delivering testing units of its Intel XMM 7160 baseband modem by the end of the year and that the chips would be available in 2013.

Negotiations with Qualcomm were apparently restarted later, and it was planned to produce a MeeGo device based on Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoC (System-on-a-Chip) after the Intel-based MeeGo device. [..]

Intel’s smartphone platforms: Moorestown and Medfield

In addition to the lack of LTE support, another MeeGo developer described that Intel was trying to slow down the development of MeeGo on its own part. MeeGo was designed to support both x86 and ARM architectures, and the hardware adaptation of Intel’s Atom SoC mated with MeeGo, codenamed Ilmatar, wasn’t ready yet. Intel was afraid it would be left as the underdog with its x86 SoC, and many of the things related to the development of the operating system were completely left for Nokia to deal with.[..]

Stephen Elop for the CEO of Nokia in 2010

The biggest thing that changed when Stephen Elop began his post as the CEO of Nokia, was centering the business around North America. According to Elop’s views, the trends that originate from the US are the ones that will prevail in the entire world, as the iPhone and Android have shown. That’s why Nokia absolutely had to be able to compete in the challenging American market to be successful globally.

Soon after beginning his job at Nokia, Elop started the ”Sea Eagle” project whose purpose was to sort out and analyze alternatives to Nokia’s smartphone strategy. In addition to tens of their own people they hired consultants from outside of Nokia. As a result a decision was made that the combination of Symbian and MeeGo was not sufficient for a succesful long term strategy.

In the United States AT&T would have agreed to sell N9, although hardware vice it was considered outdated compared to its Android rivals. Apparently another version of N9 was in development for Verizon, codenamed RM-716. Even if N9 would have been released in North America in 2011, Nokia could not have had a successor with LTE support to offer for a long time in the fast paced smartphone market.

Elop stated in a memo sent to his employees that Nokia might only have one MeeGo phone in the market by the end of year 2011. During the analysis the MeeGo team didn’t have any device that could have been shown to Elop or the Nokia Board of directors that would certainly have been available for the winter holiday season of 2010.[/size]

Devices based on the OMAP 3630 SoC used in the N9 could have been brought to the market at a tight schedule, but an ecosystem to compete with Apple and Google would have had to be built around it without LTE support and the support from North American operators. As a result of the Intel cooperation there was no mid-priced chipset that could have competed against the cheaper Android phones, and Symbian was no longer able to do so. [..]

In the end, MeeGo didn’t suffice for other manufacturers either. Nokia was the market leader and others thought that Nokia had too much power in the MeeGo project. At the end of 2010 negotiations were held with Samsung, LG, and Sony Ericsson, but none of them decided to cooperate with Nokia to develop the MeeGo ecosystem and the big European operators retreated from the investments simultaneously.

The burning platform and the new smartphone strategy of Nokia (February 2011)

[..] Elop said he had discussed in the last months with the shareholders, operators, developers, suppliers and employees, and said that Nokia also stood on the edge of the burning platform. With the platform Elop referred to Nokia mobile phones, smartphones, MeeGo and Symbian operating systems. On this platform, however, there isn’t only one explosion. There are many of them. With that he referenced to aggressive competitors such as Apple’s iPhone, Google’s Android and the cheap mobile phones published quickly in the Chinese market. According to Elop, in 2011 Nokia did not have the product which would be even close to the experience of iPhone published in 2007, and Android had overtaken Symbian in the smartphone market share in two years.

MeeGo was expected to be a winning platform for high-end smartphones, but according to Elop, at the current timescale Nokia would have had only one MeeGo device in the market by the end of 2011.

The battle between devices had turned to a battle between ecosystems, which include software developers, marketing, web search services, social media and location services in addition to hardware and software systems. Elop stated that competition was able to surpass Nokia´s market shares not only with devices, but with whole ecosystems, which indicated that Nokia had to decide how to either create, promote or join into one.
[..]

Final words

[..] The organization, however, was led from an ivory tower. Towards the end the individual developers had no say in, or even worse no knowledge about, the decisions and changes that took place in the background. Many Nokia employees we interviewed were, at the time, focused on their specific task, and not aware of the bigger picture of MeeGo development. The technology was developed in various teams, which did not communicate with each other. No one made sure that the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

In retrospect the factors that led to MeeGo’s downfall are easy to point out. Nokia developed Harmattan and MeeGo alongside with Symbian. Resources went to a huge waste, when both platforms were developing their own Qt-based user interface design tools. Applications were being simultaneously developed on top of unfinished development tools. Furthermore, the communication within the Maemo team was lacking. Harmattan’s development begun alongside Fremantle, or Maemo 5, but no information was exchanged between the respective teams. The development mistakes made with Fremantle were repeated in the development of Harmattan.

There was no clear vision of Harmattan, about what kind of a product it was going to be. Different product managers had totally different opinions of what it should be. There was no single person making the product level decisions in the projects. Many subcontractors and whole teams were hired without even knowing what they could do. The organization quickly grew enormous.

The user interface for Harmattan was designed without the knowledge of what kind of a device it was going to be used in. The user interface was eventually redesigned twice and it took almost two years. During the UI design, two devices, Columbus and Dali, were buried. The eventual result, Swipe UI and N9, was a successful combination, but the TI OMAP 3 SoC was considered to be aged at the time of N9’s release and there was no LTE support to be expected.

MeeGo became the new Symbian in the beginning of 2009. All available resources and personnel were given to MeeGo. The new employees might not have had any particular task and it took them a long time to find a proper place in the organization. The organization was also filling more and more executive positions, which in reality didn’t help getting the projects forward or getting them completed. Everyone inside Nokia had their opinion on MeeGo and the MeeGo team listened everyone.


Choosing Intel as a partner in developing the OS and providing hardware was most probably a grave mistake. Intel has developed x86-based Atom SoCs for years, but it was only this year that the first x86-based smartphones were shipped to consumers. Even now Intel has no LTE baseband modem to provide and this situation is estimated to last until 2013. Moreover, Intel hasn’t had a low or medium cost Atom SoC to compete with low cost Android smartphones.

While Nokia was struggling with the development of Harmattan and Meego, its worst competitors Apple and Google succesfully created working ecosystems around their operating systems and took over the North American market. In the end, Nokia tried to get other manufacturers on board in developing the MeeGo ecosystem. However, there were no interested parties and Nokia was left alone. In the war of the ecosystems, breaking into the North American market without LTE support and proper support from other manufacturers and operators would have been an impossible task for Nokia.

Apple’s iOS is a closed platform and Google wouldn’t have let Nokia have any advantages for joining the Android platform. Nokia chose Windows Phone as its new smartphone strategy under the direction of Stephen Elop and began a strategic collaboration with Microsoft. Now Nokia has Windows Phone 8 and all the chips are on the table: it’s all-in. [..]

Sampsa Kurri
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

anmol wrote: See this :- http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/the-sto ... okia-meego

This article is largely based on info from past and present Nokia employees.. what they say happened before Nokia announced partnership with MS.
Late latif, that article is posted on the previous page of this dhaaga :mrgreen: GB completely failed to leverage Qt - a study of how not to yum-and-aye a company. They acquired the darn thing along with its CEO bahadur but let them do their own $hit without forcing them to focus on mobile onlee. So they kept doing their desktop crap onlee claiming we have other kasht-mars to service onlee (they did and still do - all auto walas, in-flight entertainment walas, chacha in a smaller way too) while ignoring the mother company till it was too late and a scramble resulted, some of which is mentioned in the article. And now Qt got sold to Digia lock, stock and barrel.

And now GB has to sup with the devil, they have no choice. Contrary to popular demand, Android was never a viable choice as Chacha was perfectly willing to squeeze GB's tatte to raisins for that (Kala-jamun faced the same situation during negotiations with Chacha). At least Mickey$ was willing to apply anesthetic before plunging the knife in while whispering Mephistopheles-like sweet words. :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by anmol »

Raja Bose wrote:
anmol wrote: See this :- http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/the-sto ... okia-meego

This article is largely based on info from past and present Nokia employees.. what they say happened before Nokia announced partnership with MS.
Late latif, that article is posted on the previous page of this dhaaga :mrgreen: GB completely failed to leverage Qt - a study of how not to yum-and-aye a company. They acquired the darn thing along with its CEO bahadur but let them do their own $hit without forcing them to focus on mobile onlee. So they kept doing their desktop crap onlee claiming we have other kasht-mars to service onlee (they did and still do - all auto walas, in-flight entertainment walas, chacha in a smaller way too) while ignoring the mother company till it was too late and a scramble resulted, some of which is mentioned in the article. And now Qt got sold to Digia lock, stock and barrel.

And now GB has to sup with the devil, they have no choice. Contrary to popular demand, Android was never a viable choice as Chacha was perfectly willing to squeeze GB's tatte to raisins for that (Kala-jamun faced the same situation during negotiations with Chacha). At least Mickey$ was willing to apply anesthetic before plunging the knife in while whispering Mephistopheles-like sweet words.* :mrgreen:

Well this one is in english. Also, I saw this "let them do their own $hit" realtime.. i used to follow lot of people who were working on Qt. I knew many of these things, but not all.. especially the part about TI-Intel-Qualcomm business, plan to use Atom, how betting on Wimax turned out to be such a disaster.. lastly LTE being the final nail in Meego's coffin.

*: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^use Chacha's translate ji.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by ArmenT »

rohitvats wrote: And finally, Kindle is in India at Croma stores..selling for INR 6.9K.

So, how does it work? I purchase e-books from internet and read the same on this device? And are these e-books (which can be read on kindle) available from multiple sites or is Amazon the only vendor? And are e-books cheaper than physical ones? The device I think has memory of 2GB. Can these -ebook be stored on PC/Desktop and then transferred to Kindle?

Thanks for the patience.
e-books are available from multiple sites. I get most of my stuff free from The Gutenberg Project or ibiblio.org (download the files of .mobi format). These are books whose copyrights have long expired (I usually get all my classic novels from here). The kindle can also read .pdf files. You can also buy a lot of O'Reilly published books in kindle format from their website.

E-books that cost money are generally cheaper than physical ones, but not as much as you'd expect. In some cases, the e-book is 50% of the price of the print version, in other cases, the e-book is only something like $5-$10 cheaper than the print version. Publishers making mucho money onlee, author only gets paid peanuts :((.

As for your third question, yes, you can store books on your PC and transfer back and forth to your kindle.
Last edited by ArmenT on 14 Oct 2012 22:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by ArmenT »

Lilo wrote:Image
Saar, this actually has happened and is called the Osborne effect. Computer pioneer Adam Osborne had a best selling computer called Osborne 1 and then publicly announced plans for superior models that would blow the Osborne 1 away. So people stopped buying the Osborne-1 and decided to wait for the superior models. Since the company was relying on Osborne-1 sales to drive funding for the newer models, they couldn't produce the new models and went bankrupt shortly after.

Fun fact: Adam Osborne was born in Kodaikanal and spoke fluent Tamil.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:
I think ATT is a victim of terrorism much like Pakistan - how come VZW has no deployment issues due to local regulations and PRC nutjobs? Maybe they should take a leaf out of the Fruit Co. marketing playbook and run ads showing that other networks suck too. :mrgreen: Only perhaps then kasht-mars will give them a free pass. Asking kashtmars to do SNR analysis will not cut it. And only Fruit Co. gets a free pass on asking people to hold it right :P
The reason is you must get to the root cause. :mrgreen:
Both ATT & VZW are today because of mergers and acquisitions after 1984. Many towers are inherited and leased. The prime locations were taken by paging services and analog mobile telecom companies through the 1980s and 1990s. It is very likely this is worked out better for VZW in your location. Unfortunately, contacting ATT kashtmar service is like contacting kashtmar service of BSNL, MTNL (which may actually be better) or a desi state electricity board. The only way you can find out what is going on is to get to someone higher up the food chain. I'm sure someone in your position can.

That said, ATT is getting spectrum from TMO in 35 markets in the next several months, and it is possible that your area is in one of those markets.

BTW, I just noticed on Nokia's page for the Lumia 920 that they are not supporting CDMA2000 and EV-DO. So it looks like VZW and Sprint are SOL. The good news is that the 920 supports almost all of the major LTE bands and when Sprint/Softbank/Clearwire and VZW switch to voice-over-IP with LTE this won't be an issue. I do have to tip my hat to Nokia for the 920. Hardware wise this phone supports all the internationally used networks and makes my mijjle hard for it. It also serves notice to AAPL, Sammy and others to get their acts together and support all network standards instead of getting cheapo to rip off kashtmars.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 14 Oct 2012 23:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

ramana wrote:Mort and RB, I called ATT and got the Samsung unlocked. And will have someone get a prepaid SIM card for it in desh. Thanks for all the advice.


The guy was telling me its quite popular to get the quad band phones unlocked for use in Europe too!
Have fun on the trip.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^He died in Kodaikanal too, none of the Indian papers reported it.

It is mind boggling to think how many of such brilliant people perished in the grind....osborne, kildall.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Lilo »

Thanks for informing about that ArmenTji ,
current GB context mirrors the cartoon well..
and who knows the fruit company too might get a taste of this in the near future.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Lilo mian, not current GB context rather than the GB context back in 2006-2007.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

ArmenT wrote:Posting from /.
The Three Pillars of Nokia's strategy have all failed. Why Nokia must fire CEO Elop now.
Pretty damning article by an ex-Nokia higher up. I was not aware that in 2010, Nokia was actually the biggest smartphone manufacturer and 2x the size of its nearest competitor in smartphone sales and growing. It was also the best selling smartphone on 6 out of 7 continents. The Nokia App store was #1 in all non-English speaking countries. Elop managed to screw it up big time.
I dont buy the implicit alternative he offers -- Nokia should have cruised on Symbian and everything would have been fine. It wouldnt have. He is missing a basic point that Customers buy phunwas these days for the software as much as the hardware. If one of the two value props suck, nobody will buy your phones. It wasnt the case before: Moto Razr (the original one) had completely horrible software (I used one for a few months), but it was among the most successful phunwas ever because the hardware was sexy. Now-a-days that is not the case, nobody will buy a sexy looking costly phone with an OS that cant browse/facebook/twitter and without apps and games.

Developers were abandoning Symbian. And they would have found it even more difficult to compete in iPhone/Windows/Android world for developer mindshare and development momentum. Note that of the three (iOS/WP8/Android) two are from companies who built their companies on the strengths of their operating systems offerrings! M$ and FruitCo know how to write an OS, design the APIs, shepherd developers and make development tools -- thats what they have been doing for 35 years! Combine that with the momentum of android (it was clear that Samsung, HTC, Moto et al had jumped into that bandwagon at that time) -- how is Nokia supposed to compete on Symbian?

The second fallacy is somehow touting the volume of dumbphones shipped by Nokia. It is a dying business -- Note that Fruitco makes something like 70% of all mobile phone profits -- I am not talking Smartphone, I am talking mobile phone! Given that increasingly customers are going to shift to smartphones and the margins on mobile phones are getting smaller (with Cheeni knockoffs making "good enough" phones), how can Nokia survive by shipping "feature phones" ? You can buy a decent GSM handset for 15$ probably less if you get a tallel handset. How much money do you think OEMs make on it?

Point is Nokia needed to jump from Symbian. They could have gone all in on Meego but that carried risks (again developer mindshare, volume of handsets shipped etc. Note that a perfectly decent mobile OS, the WebOS backed by Palm and HP failed for exactly the same reasons. No developer developed for it, because they sold very few handsets. Also note how Blackberry OS is gasping for breath, because no developer wants to develop for it. Symbian would have gone the same way. Probably meego too). The choices were to jump to android or to WP8.

The die was cast when they chose WP8 and GB is going through a near death experience now. Things might look up. Things might or might not have been different if they jumped to Android.

The biggest issue IMHO is execution -- producing great and desirable handsets and tablets. Nokia didnt do that and it is not their (hardware's) fault. Their hardware is great! They have fantastic relationships with almost all carriers around the world, and great DCB (direct carrier billing) agreements with them* So distribution/hardware/design was not the problem. The problem was M$ who threw them under the bus by making a half baked OS, (they havent shipped WP8 yet) and giving them a cardiac arrest for 2 years.

*Why is this important? Because they can sell apps and content to people without the hassle of storing/typing credit cards.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Lilo »

RB mullah,
in 2011 elop preannounced windoze tieup nine months away from a working windoze phone and symbian smartphone sales meanwhile tanked
now after Lumia 920 announcement , every one is holding out as older Lumia's are not even up gradable to Win 8. It has been 2 months already.

May be elop is an M$ plant and will oversee the firesale of GB to M$ in the future.

In the end GB should have just split its portfolio across various OS instead of getting digested into M$ - sammy is doing this with Android and Windoze and Bada/tizen simultaneously without any apparent contradiction.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

^^^
To add insult to injury, HTC's phunwa's look like GB phunwas whose corners have been sanded down. Apparently they got design help from M$. And with Mickey$ blessings it is called "Windows Phone 8x". What will you buy? A windows phone 8x running Windows phone 8 or a Lumia running windows phone 8? It is a clever way to confuse the kashtmar.

On top of that there are rumors circulating that M$ might make its own hardware if the phunwas from partners dont pick up sales.

Image
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Lilo wrote:RB mullah,
in 2011 elop preannounced windoze tieup nine months away from a working windoze phone and symbian smartphone sales meanwhile tanked
That was the pebble which caused the landslide and till date nobody has figured out why Elop showed that slide where Symbian was declared dead without any windoze phone immediately available to fill in the vaccum. Guess who benefited from that tactical brilliance, Chacha and Sammy did. Totally mind-boggling idiocy - did they think developers would develop for an OS which is declared as dead in the near future and everything would gracefully degenerate like the neat slide that was shown? Instead it became a stampede to get out. That's what happens when decisions are made by consultant types with heads in the cloud.

Symbian actually had healthy developer traction outside US (not fantastic but pretty good) and GB's Ovi store was doing pretty well (it was the most profitable store after the Fruit Co. one) when Elop showed that Symbian-is-dead slide - given most smart phone stats are usually US centric, it didn't get that much press. But after that announcement it tanked within months. The expected path would have been to keep quiet about Symbian, keep shipping Symbian devices for the interim 1 year before good WP products started coming. Its standard business practice to secure your cash flow while investing in new stuff and GB is still shipping Symbian devices while making WP devices but Elop could not keep his mouth shut.

The death of Symbian itself as a platform was caused by 3 things which totally blindsided it:
1) Symbian was not app-centric and its focus was more on system optimization and performance on constrained embedded HW. As a consequence, writing apps for Symbian was a pain-da-butt - if you hate someone make them program in Symbian C++. This led to lack of developer traction even when there was no competition.

2) The UI frameworks on top of Symbian (S60, UIQ etc.) were designed for non-touch devices and worked very well on them. This also meant it sucked on touch devices.

3) Symbian became a phone-only OS (it didnt start out as that) and became over-specialized as time went on. This is a problem for any system which does what its supposed to do, very well.

Android will face similar dial-e-amma going forward and till now it is charting a similar path as Symbian in terms of platform characteristics, market share growth and market dynamics.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Lilo wrote: In the end GB should have just split its portfolio across various OS instead of getting digested into M$ - sammy is doing this with Android and Windoze and Bada/tizen simultaneously without any apparent contradiction.
Actually Sammy went with Android and Windoze when it was purely a device manufacturer, unlike GB which always had services with its devices. The moment Tizen gains enough traction, Sammy will most likely dump Android and Windoze since they will transition into a services games with vertical offerings.

People like Mickey or Sammy is moving into vertical play like Fruit Co. but the question for some like Chacha is different becoz till now it is in pure services play (the nexus devices are a pimple in terms of sales volumes compared to the overall market volumes). Chacha earns his khota sikkas by wanting its services to be used as widely and everywhere - it doesn't care about making shiny devices. Devices are just a means to an end for Chacha. But now folks are making their walled gardens where they may hold the keys to the gate and may use that to deny Chacha entry (Facebook like dial-e-amma but from a devices perspective). And the more integrated the vendor's services become on their own vertical offering, the less convenient it becomes for users to go to Chacha for advice even if the integrated advice is not as wise as Chacha's. So now the dial-e-amma for Chacha is, does it plunge into its own vertical play and get serious with the Nexus devices (Motor Oil is the hedge to do that)? But at the same time that goes against the pill-o-soppy of Chacha to spread his seeds far and wide.

I guess at some point Eric Schmidt will give a speech like this :mrgreen:

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

How many years will it take for walled gardens? For sammy and windoze and iPhunwa to become walled off? 3 years?

There might be other ways of app delivery that could work cross platform when that begins to happen. Holding a key might not matter anymore.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

I would hazard a guess, 3-5 years? During the past chaddi uttaro competition with vina mullah, the question of cross platform app delivery came about. As I had stated back then, even with a cross platform app run-time such as HTML5, it is possible to quite easily lock the gate using package signing, restricting access to vendor's app stores onlee ityadi which makes it impossible to go out of the walled garden unless you jail break & lose your warranty. The trend I see happening is something along those lines where the technology will end up being cross platform but the deployment need not necessarily be cross platform. App stores now come integrated with the platform, just like browsers of yore. Sammy of late has been pushing services such as DriveLink on its own app store rather than Chacha's and is aggressively fighting to make it Sammy exclusive but cross platform (i.e. works across all the platforms in its portfolio).
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

Well that is true. M$ fought for a long time to prevent cross platform app delivery and that is why internet scared them a lot (hence the Netscape jihad). If you can deliver services over the net, people might no longer bother about the OS.

Sad thing is, they didnt do the apple's disrupt-or-be-disrupted mantra, else they could have taken over internet services too. Think of a browser which is also your email reader and instant messenger and skype and news reader and movie watcher and music and books frontend ityadi with microsoft email, messenger, movie, books and portal services in the backend. A kind of "internet operating system". M$ could have even charged subscription rates for all these, and once you subscribe to email/messaging/news service you might never leave and become slave for life! Instead (bad for M$, good for consumers) it has evolved into standards-based service delivery model where there is no tight coupling between the browser and services (you can access any email, netflix, hulu ityadi with any browser and a browser which access netflix can also access hulu plus).

Now the same battle is being fought on mobile platforms, except it is platform owners vs service providers battle. Interestingly chacha saw it coming on the desktop (hence chrome) and on mobile (hence android). Atleast those two steps were on time and far sighted. Lets see how it develops in the future.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

I would say Android was more far sighted than Chrome becoz the key is integration - Chrome is still an application on most devices, Android is a platform. Ofcourse integration leads to "lack of choice" leads to browser war type stuff. The battle is going to be fought on PCs and mobile, not just mobile. Chacha has been good at strat-e-jee and has organically acquired companies/teams which enhance what they have and chart into new frontiers. IMO Chacha missed 2 key windows of opportunity in 2010 which it could have leveraged to the hilt to kick Mickey's mush: one was Google Docs and one was Chrome OS on laptops. Missing those 2 windows has given Mickey a chance it thought it never had.

Another thing Chacha has to figure out is how to diversify their income source while using it to augment the existing one. Mickey$ was successful in doing that by taking the warthog approach, low tech massive slogging with tons of money thrown at the problem (like ChipZ). Chacha might have to take another approach. As always, somewhere in some dark corner, a bunch of dhoti clad SDREs will be worshipping some forbidden idol which then turns out to be the All Mighty saviour. That's how GB got into the cellphone business and ChipZ got into the processor business.
Raja Bose
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

This may possibly be the 3rd missed window of opportunity by Chacha:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/14/andr ... -troubles/

Time will tell if iPad can slay the Win8 demon in tablets and leave a vacuum for someone else to take up the challenge or whether the 2 will divide up the spoils like the good ol' days.
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