Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

[Neela]

Nirbhaya, brave and true. We (government and society) have failed you. Let us not forgive and not forget: we owe it to you, your family, and to all the women of India.

These were written five months ago:

Why is India so bad for women?

Yes yes all of India is very very bad for all women. US and Britain are safe for children!

[Arjun]

Nirbhaya, brave and true. We (government and society) have failed you. Let us not forgive and not forget: we owe it to you, your family, and to all the women of India.

These were written five months ago:

Why is India so bad for women?

The death of Kali

Agree with your sentiments, Eklavya ji.

But could you please stop posting GIGO output from some highly dubious 'survey', and post real data if available?

[Baikul]

My friends,our memories are so short,especially that of our media.Can anyone tell me what the "National Bravery Award" is and who it is named after? The Chopra children,who were abducted,the girl raped and both children murdered.It happened in 1978.During the media coverage of this bestial and barbaric act of criminality,I never heard a single news channel recollect this equally savage act of rape and murder,for which in less than a month's time,on Republic Day,our brave children will perhaps be paraded upon an elephant-as was done in the past,and our political despots and their supporting cast of babudom,will pat themselves on their backs and say "well done"! has anything changed in Delhi since that act of bestiality?
..............

I was thinking of the same incident, one that really hit home because I was living in the same colony as those two kids at that time, in Dhaula Kuan. And yes, nothing much has changed in terms of a systemic, leader driven response to this cancer.

[chaanakya]

Gen. V. K. Singh did try to remind of Sanjay and Geeta Chopra on a TV channel but these TV walas had important thing on hand. Most times the media guys were keen on playing the Kongi spokespeople.

The critical mass of understanding people is there. The primary works fine, the trouble is the secondary is in effect inert in the presense of Media with is acting as a deflector instead of acting as a reflector.

There is a Bravery Awards given to 24 ( below 16 years) children in the memory of these Brave Hearts which shook the conscience of The Nation in late seventies. Ranga and Billa were the perps and hanged in 1982. TV channels dont remember this and that was the age when only printed materials were available no TV to have 24 hrs coverage. yet response was tremendous.

But since then what has changed??

[chaanakya]

Just got reminded on TimesNow of Aruna Shanbag case of 1973. The girl still remains in coma. SC has turned down her mercy killing plea. Perpetrators are out on after serving two seven years consecutive sentence. Mumbai was outraged now has forgotten that case.

Ruchika , who committed suicide , is one such case. Rathore , Ex-DGP of Haryana , out on bail.

Several others one could find and name.

[Sagar G]

Nirbhaya, brave and true. We (government and society) have failed you. Let us not forgive and not forget: we owe it to you, your family, and to all the women of India.

These were written five months ago:

Why is India so bad for women?

Yes yes all of India is very very bad for all women. US and Britain are safe for children!

Aree thank you Neela had totally missed the lectures from turdland. But land of turds themselves have a horrible record in this aspect then how come they lecture us. Hmmmm must be an important aspect in becoming a "Britisher" like we see L*nd Meghnad Desai doing nowadays.

[armenon]

What a sad day.

Rest in peace sister.

You will not be forgotten.

[SaiK]

Basic street culture forms the basis for larger crime structure. The basic ways of street living is aided by a covalent bond between politician-police-criminals, aided by stupid ddm. This structure if broken, then we can see some light for your daughter (if you have one), your wife to safely walk in the streets.

This is outrage++

++zillion. I am upping this myself!

[SriKumar]

Missed some of the discussion on outrage and the potential pointlessness of it. Am glad to see that this discussion has been moved to another thread (thanks harbans).

Nation-wide attention and public outrage is what distinguishes this rape case form the thousands of rapes that have happened over the past years. Outrage among the Delhi students and their willingness to act on it is the only reason we are discussing this today across the nation. Women have been gang-raped and killed by the hundreds, girl children have been raped (even after the Delhi rape) and all that took place after that was a paragraph in 'The Hindu'.

The difference this time is outrage.

[brihaspati]

While we are hot at self-whipping
From wiki:
(1) United Kingdom

According to a news report on BBC One presented in 12 November 2007, there were 85,000 women raped in the UK in the previous year, equating to about 230 cases every day. The 2006-07 British Crime Survey reports that 1 in every 200 women suffered from rape in that period. It also showed that only 800 people were convicted of rape crimes that same year, meaning that less than 1 in every 100 rape survivors were able to convict their attacker.[42][43] According to a study in 2009 by the NSPCC on young people aged between 13-18, a third of girls and 16% of boys have experienced sexual violence and that as many as 250,000 teenage girls are suffering from abuse at any one time.[44][45] 12% of boys and 3% of girls reported committing sexual violence against their partners.[46]

(2) USA

Other research has found that about 80,000 American children are sexually abused each year.[9] It has been estimated that one in six American women has been or will be sexually assaulted during her life.[10] Largely because of child and prison rape, approximately ten percent of reported rape victims are male.[11]

According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 191,670 victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005.[24] 1 of 6 U.S. women and 1 of 33 U.S. men have experienced an attempted or completed rape.

No need to jump up in joy at supposed claims of decline of the rate to 0.0000.....percent.

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, the adjusted per-capita victimization rate of rape has declined from about 2.4 per 1000 people (age 12 and above) in 1980 to about 0.4 per 1000 people, a decline of about 85%.[31] But other government surveys, such as the Sexual Victimization of College Women study, critique the NCVS on the basis it includes only those acts perceived as crimes by the victim, and report a higher victimization rate.[32]

RAINN asserts that from 2000–2005, 59% of rapes were not reported to law enforcement.[33][34] One factor relating to this is the misconception that most rapes are committed by strangers.[35] According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 38% of victims were raped by a friend or acquaintance, 28% by "an intimate" and 7% by another relative, and 26% were committed by a stranger to the victim. About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim's own home

here are some rates of rape/sexual assault per population: for (2009)

USA : 29.0
UK : 27.5/23.6/17.5 (the three home subkingdoms)
Denmark : 6.4
Finland : 12.4
Iceland : 24.7
Ireland : 8.5
Norway : 20.6
Austria : 9.3
Belgium : 27.7
France : 16.5
Germany : 8.9
Sweden : 63.8
Netherlands : 11.2
Switzerland : 8.7

India tops the list with 1.8. How funny. It onlee shows how dishonest Indians are compared to these advanced countries. They lie or underreport more than 30 times roughly compared to Sweden, and approximatly 12-15 times compared to the Brits, and almost 15 times more than the Americans [even if these countries themselves are suspected to be grossly underreporting their cases].

This is not to feel good about India by comparing with other advanced, admirable, cultures with aspects that should be separately loved and cherished by Indians over and above whatever these cultures actual records show - and continue to show. Let those cultures be - but we are not judging ourselves by the standards of these admirable cultures. We are outraged because of our own standards and expectations from our own culture.

After all, most foreign accounts of India before the advent of the loving touches of Islam and the Europeans - testify to the security of life in public places and the very visibility of women in the public sphere and how safe they appeared to be. If a "Buddhist" traveller could testify to the safety of even an unescorted old woman with jewels in the middle of the night in a public place under a supposedly "Brahminical revivalist" empire - surely things were far better off in those days.

Those are the standards we are judging ourselves by.

[eklavya]

Nirbhaya, brave and true. We (government and society) have failed you. Let us not forgive and not forget: we owe it to you, your family, and to all the women of India.

These were written five months ago:

Why is India so bad for women?

The death of Kali

Agree with your sentiments, Eklavya ji.

But could you please stop posting GIGO output from some highly dubious 'survey', and post real data if available?

Arjun, why is this survey dubious? I am posting a link to their methodology and results:

http://www.trust.org/documents/womens-r ... esults.pdf

http://www.trust.org/trustlaw/news/spec ... /g20women/


International rape statistics are also available, but apparently they are of dubious reliability (under-reporting being a major issues) to make a like-for-like comparison:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

[Muppalla]

India tops the list with 1.8. How funny. It onlee shows how dishonest Indians are compared to these advanced countries. They lie or underreport more than 30 times roughly compared to Sweden, and approximatly 12-15 times compared to the Brits, and almost 15 times more than the Americans [even if these countries themselves are suspected to be grossly underreporting their cases].

No sir. you got it all wrong. In which world are you living without knowing that India has about 50% men who are rapists or about to become rapists. 50% of Father-in-laws, brother-in-laws rape and because 99% are inside family both husband and wife keep it quite and emotionally suffering. So the summary is that the guy quitely watches when his brother and father rapes his wife and that is very common.

Changing India is a tall order and hence the following should be immediatly changed:
(1) India should be rid of men
(2) Assexual reproduction should be fast tracked

Indian race is such a shameful thing and everything in the last 10,000 year it achived was how to increase the number of rapes.

[Arjun]

Arjun, why is this survey dubious? I am posting a link to their methodology and results:

Because it is a 'perception survey' at the end of the day...aren't we interested in knowing about facts rather than perceptions?

[svenkat]

May your atma attain shanti,dear sister.

[JohnTitor]

Indian democracy is a facade is because of it's people. I find it really ridiculous that people first elect murderers, rapists, goons, baahubalis, corrupt into the corridors of power and for the next five years they expect that the same set of people will somehow grow a heart and will work towards securing the peoples/country's interests. If people aren't honest to themselves or to the powers given to them then why they blame the government for all the ills that befalls on our society ???

+1

That is because a different set of people (urban middle class < 200 mil population) is protesting and not the people who voted the tzuthiyas to power (rural poor > 500 mil population).

And yet the people who protest don't vote (atleast a majority of them). Protesting is no use. You cant vote a lion to be your king then expect it not to eat the sheep it is supposed to protect. What BS!

Don't think so....every time the middle class cries wolf and then nothing turns up, you are actually emboldening the political criminals.

The middle class has already cried wolf twice - one was protests after 26/11, second was the anti-corruption agitation. Both have fizzled out without any effect on the ruling government.

The only way to ensure effective feedback would be to campaign with the specific aim of Delhi leadership being voted out and not rest until that is achieved...You cry wolf one more time - the situation is only going to get much much worse.

+1!
Absolutely.

All these protests amount to nothing. Nothing will ever change. If anyone (protesters) wants anything to change, vote them out! Else, live with it like we've been living with it for 65 years.

I have a lot of pride in my culture, but the India of today is not something I'm proud of. The amount of violence, corruption, dishonesty in all walks of life is disgusting.

The sadest part of all this is that Shinde is right. This will be forgotten. Remember this?

Like Bofors, coalgate will also be forgotten: Sushilkumar Shinde
TNN Sep 16, 2012, 02.03AM IST
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ent-bofors

Barely 3 months has passed since he said that. And yet, noone can prove him wrong. Coalgate has been forgotten, just like CWG scam and the zillion other scams.

I am not trying to make the rape case less important. Quite the contrary, it is very sad that that case (just like the 100s of reported and possibly 1000s of unreported cases) will be forgotten. Did anyone know in the 12 days that this was playing out, several rapes have been reported in India (5 in Delhi itself). Infact, there was a case, where a rape victim was raped AGAIN by cops in UP. The country has gone to the dogs!

Alas, nothing will change till those at top are changed. Till then, the educated have to suffer, the women have to suffer, honest people have to suffer. Lets not forget, the backward classes, the poor/rural folk are no better off (other than that free sari, booze or TV they got as a voting incentive)

The arrogance of people ruling our country is too disgusting for me to think about. My blood boils!

I leave you with an eloquent piece of literature:

... all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they were accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their duty to throw off such government and to provide new guards for their future security.

- American declaration of Independence

[brihaspati]

Gulshun Rehman of UK "save the children" trust has declared judgment on India and Indian women's plight. No problem - the survey is based on a perception by "experts" the world over. No problem. Surely - the 300 [EIC obsession?] divinities are beyond doubt or reproach.

But in the land of the expert :
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 61636.html

The devastating scale of sexual violence against women in Britain is exposed today by new research which indicates that the vast majority of victims do not report perpetrators to the police.

One in 10 women has been raped, and more than a third subjected to sexual assault, according to a major survey, which also highlights just how frightened women are of not being believed. More than 80 per cent of the 1,600 respondents said they did not report their assault to the police, while 29 per cent said they told nobody – not even a friend or family member – of their ordeal.

Negative social attitudes to rape and sexual assault victims play a big part in the reluctance of women to come forward, the survey by Mumsnet suggests. Nearly three-quarters (70 per cent) of respondents feel the media is unsympathetic to women who report rape, while more than half say the same is true of the legal system and society in general.

Fear of being blamed, because of their clothes or alcohol intake or for staying with an abusive partner, means more than half of the women surveyed in February and March 2012 said they would be too embarrassed or ashamed to report the crime. The stubbornly low conviction rates still put off 68 per cent of victims from going to the police, but perhaps even more surprising is the fact 29 per cent said they did not tell anyone, not even friends or family, about the rape, while 53 per cent said they would be reluctant to do so because of shame or embarrassment.

http://www.nus.org.uk/en/campaigns/wome ... ion-rate-/

John Yates, at the time the ACPO national lead for rape and serious sexual offences and also responsible for such cases in the Met, said in the Guardian earlier this year that in order to tackle the devastatingly low rape conviction rates, the police force needs to completely re-invent its response to rape and sexual abuse cases.

It reports that in a study of 33 countries Britain has the worst conviction rates of all. Yates compared the situation to the complete overhaul that was needed after the Stephen Lawrence enquiry revealed embedded racism in the police. The rape conviction rate isn’t just symbolic of failings in funding and focus, it is symbolic of a deeply engrained culture that encourages people to mistrust women when they accuse men of rape.

The recent Worboys and Reid cases have highlighted that rape is a repeat offence unless the perpetrator is apprehended, but also that women are repeatedly being ignored by police when they report sexual violence. The Soham murder case emphasised this too - Ian Huntley had sexually assaulted a woman previously, but her case was thrown out.
Failure to support women

If police are failing to support women when they report abuse which falls in to the ‘stranger rape’ category, then just imagine how much worse it is when the case involves friends, family and, in particular, alcohol.

The advent of DNA evidence means that it can now be proven whether or not penetration has occurred when a woman accuses a man of rape. Where, in the past, juries would decide on the full collection of evidence in court, now the CPS is dismissing more and more cases before they even reach trial. This is because the prosecution now rests solely on the issue of consent, and attitudes in the police and in the CPS mean that cases are dismissed on snap decisions about a woman’s character, how much she had drunk, previous history with the defendant, a history of mental illness and a series of irrelevant factors to whether or not she was actually raped.

I agree - we can learn from these advanced cultures. We can see that mere advancement of techniques does not necessarily make women safer - as in the CPS example. The social and legal and media attitudes in this advanced to-be-admired-for-aspects culture appear to be remarkably similar to that what we accuse Indians of. So maybe we can learn something from them in how they are reforming their society? Or if they too are failing maybe India needs to chart its own course? It needs to look at values that came before these advanced cultures came in?

[eklavya]

Arjun, why is this survey dubious? I am posting a link to their methodology and results:

Because it is a 'perception survey' at the end of the day...aren't we interested in knowing about facts rather than perceptions?

The statistics appear to be unreliable. And 'perceptions' also have a basis in 'reality'. The anecdotal evidence (as the statistical sort is dubious) aligns better with the perceptions.

[RamaY]

This I think sums it all up.

Sorry for OT,but cannot help notice the christianization (oops secularization) of heavens and gods in public mind.

[brihaspati]

Just could be OT - but also wanted to say, I cringe at the RIP. Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, and there is no permanent "resting" for a body or the soul. I would wish her to return, to fulfill what has remained unfulfilled. Come back as a child who completes what she had originally set out to do. Indic is about celebrating life, not an everlasting death awaiting some magical revival at an unspecified future date. You should not rest, you should come back, and fulfill your destiny.

[Neela]

B-ji
I urge you to look at how a predator like Jimmy Saville went on wronging the most vulnerable in the UK. His victim count runs into hundreds. Over a 3 decade period. From young kids to women, he used his power and a sense of impunity to have his way around. He has even gone to clinics for the mentally unstable and violated the women there.
This is not new. In colonial Kenya , those who were rounded up were tortured _and_ raped!
I know this is getting a little OT but our solutions anytime over a schadenfreude ridden pontification.

[RamaY]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Government selected by the same set of people who are now "protesting". So help me understand how come a government which has been selected by the same people who are protesting is always responsible for any crime that happens ??? Is the responsibility of the society over as soon as they select the government ???

Lets accept the point that it is the government's fault but then how come the same government keeps getting voted into power again and again even after failing multiple times in multiple arenas ???

I will explain this with an analogy.


Imagine the public as the "right" society that we are trying to build. People are like the wheat that is being grown because the common people is what makes the society.

To protect this wheat, we put a fence and protective mechanism. That is called the govt. The head of govt or PM is the farmer here.

Irrespective of whose fault it is, there will be some weed in the farm. it will happen because in order to cultivate wheat, the farm will be watered, fertilized and so on; that is right conditions are set. For example in this rape case, the girl is let to go out in the night wearing some nice looking cloaths.

What happens if the weed is not removed? It will destroy the main cultivation/wheat production and bring loss to the farmer.

Who is responsible to remove the weed? The wheat or Farmer?

If the farmer says it is the wheat which gave space and conditions to allow the weed to grow, is the farmer right?

Right now the farmer doesn't care about the harvest because
1) it is not his harvest.
2) he got NREGA support irrespective of the harvest
3) the land owner is harvesting the farm, just enough to keep it in his hands

[Arjun]

The statistics appear to be unreliable. And 'perceptions' also have a basis in 'reality'. The anecdotal evidence (as the statistical sort is dubious) aligns better with the perceptions.

Perceptions can be easily manipulated...and Indians tend to be highly self-critical as a matter of course. I have no doubt at all that the perceptions of these Western 'gender experts' are based on the anecdotal, perception-based 'analysis' of their Indian colleagues...believe me you can straight away junk a lot of this stuff.

The statistics on rape in India are no doubt lower than reality - the question is even after correction does it come close to or surpass the figures of the US or Sweden...Nobody will ever know until the data is collected - and for that to happen a campaign has to be first mounted to make rape victims register their complaints without any fear or discomfort.

[ramana]

Interesting how a thread to express outrage induces the supporters of UPA type mindset to come out.
Eg Mahesh Butt and his ilk.

[JohnTitor]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Government selected by the same set of people who are now "protesting". So help me understand how come a government which has been selected by the same people who are protesting is always responsible for any crime that happens ??? Is the responsibility of the society over as soon as they select the government ???

Lets accept the point that it is the government's fault but then how come the same government keeps getting voted into power again and again even after failing multiple times in multiple arenas ???

I will explain this with an analogy.


Imagine the public as the "right" society that we are trying to build. People are like the wheat that is being grown because the common people is what makes the society.

To protect this wheat, we put a fence and protective mechanism. That is called the govt. The head of govt or PM is the farmer here.

Irrespective of whose fault it is, there will be some weed in the farm. it will happen because in order to cultivate wheat, the farm will be watered, fertilized and so on; that is right conditions are set. For example in this rape case, the girl is let to go out in the night wearing some nice looking cloaths.

What happens if the weed is not removed? It will destroy the main cultivation/wheat production and bring loss to the farmer.

Who is responsible to remove the weed? The wheat or Farmer?

If the farmer says it is the wheat which gave space and conditions to allow the weed to grow, is the farmer right?

Right now the farmer doesn't care about the harvest because
1) it is not his harvest.
2) he got NREGA support irrespective of the harvest
3) the land owner is harvesting the farm, just enough to keep it in his hands

Ramaji, not sure if i've understood your analogy correctly but there is a flaw.

The wheat did not choose the farmer, so in your analogy the farmer is to blame.

But people selected the PM.. at some level anyway (by voting directly for him or not voting and letting him win)

[eklavya]

The statistics on rape in India are no doubt lower than reality - the question is even after correction does it come close to or surpass the figures of the US or Sweden...Nobody will ever know until the data is collected - and for that to happen a campaign has to be first mounted to make rape victims register their complaints without any fear or discomfort.

Fully agree with the above.

[Sagar G]

I will explain this with an analogy.


Imagine the public as the "right" society that we are trying to build. People are like the wheat that is being grown because the common people is what makes the society.

To protect this wheat, we put a fence and protective mechanism. That is called the govt. The head of govt or PM is the farmer here.

Irrespective of whose fault it is, there will be some weed in the farm. it will happen because in order to cultivate wheat, the farm will be watered, fertilized and so on; that is right conditions are set. For example in this rape case, the girl is let to go out in the night wearing some nice looking cloaths.

What happens if the weed is not removed? It will destroy the main cultivation/wheat production and bring loss to the farmer.

Who is responsible to remove the weed? The wheat or Farmer?

If the farmer says it is the wheat which gave space and conditions to allow the weed to grow, is the farmer right?

Right now the farmer doesn't care about the harvest because
1) it is not his harvest.
2) he got NREGA support irrespective of the harvest
3) the land owner is harvesting the farm, just enough to keep it in his hands

Your analogy isn't working because equating it to the practical scenario the wheat will keep getting destroyed because the farmers doesn't give shit about it and the wheat can't do anything about it. Painting a helpless picture for the people doesn't absolve them of there choices.

[JohnTitor]

The statistics appear to be unreliable. And 'perceptions' also have a basis in 'reality'. The anecdotal evidence (as the statistical sort is dubious) aligns better with the perceptions.

Perceptions can be easily manipulated...and Indians tend to be highly self-critical as a matter of course. I have no doubt at all that the perceptions of these Western 'gender experts' are based on the anecdotal, perception-based 'analysis' of their Indian colleagues...believe me you can straight away junk a lot of this stuff.

The statistics on rape in India are no doubt lower than reality - the question is even after correction does it come close to or surpass the figures of the US or Sweden...Nobody will ever know until the data is collected - and for that to happen a campaign has to be first mounted to make rape victims register their complaints without any fear or discomfort.

And why would they do that?

To take the chance of getting raped again?

UP rape victim raped by cops probing case
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... -inspector

or perhaps neglect from the authorities..

Gang-rape victim ends life due to police apathy in Punjab
http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/oth ... 246092.ece

Lets not ignore the dozens of known cases where authorities harass victims and their families to withdraw their case.

[devesh]

wonderful! in the last 10 hours, the whole thread went to hell....now we are discussing and comparing to other countries b/c we can't resist the self-flagellation by setting up mythical "super cultures" in some foreign countries....can we get back on topic, which is the brutal rape of this girl, and stop the "other country" self-flagellation?

[eklavya]

Interesting how a thread to express outrage induces the supporters of UPA type mindset to come out.
Eg Mahesh Butt and his ilk.

When it comes to violence against women and children, the mindset appears to be thoroughly rotten across the political spectrum, and the police appear to be impediments to justice.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/reinv ... car-159808

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 0123.htm#1

[devesh]

as first step, all urban area policing should be turned over to women. start with the 5 metros, and then to the tier-2 cities. this should be seriously considered. a tradition of martial arts and defense training in women needs to be encouraged and established. and no better way than to turn over internal policing to women, in phase-by-phase manner.

to me, the biggest positive development will be: De-Islamization and De-Abrahamization.

[Muppalla]

as first step, all urban area policing should be turned over to women. start with the 5 metros, and then to the tier-2 cities. this should be seriously considered. a tradition of martial arts and defense training in women needs to be encouraged and established. and no better way than to turn over internal policing to women, in phase-by-phase manner.

to me, the biggest positive development will be: De-Islamization and De-Abrahamization.

I do not know if that works. May be it works in this decade. When I was growing up, entire street policing in Vijayawada was given at 50-50 ratio to men and women. The jungle crowd started eve-teasing the police itself. However, I agree if the women police are well trained to be a semi-commado level with good amount of assault rifles in hands.

[SaiK]

The difference this time is outrage.

I would like to add it is outrageous we have high tolerance to rape and criminals in our society.

[RamaY]

In democracy people do not select the leader they want. They select one of the people who stand up to be the leader. They cannot nominate a person in the voting process.

So a self-proclaimed leader has to stand up in the election.

The leaders just get people "mandate" in democracy for the intended term.

***
That is why they couldn't select a Bose or a Gabdhi or a Patel to be their leader.

The game is to make sure that the right person is not made available to the public to be chosen.

[Sanku]

Interesting how a thread to express outrage induces the supporters of UPA type mindset to come out.
Eg Mahesh Butt and his ilk.

It is terrible that a sad event in India brings out these RNIs and MUTUS in droves taking every opportunity to spit on India in a moment of distress rather than join Indians in mourning and empathizing with feelings of outrage.

Vultures these folks are.

[SaiK]

^and precisely my friend, what measures you may list to make the right person be the chosen ones to lead the country is where people are divided.. nah?

[brihaspati]

as first step, all urban area policing should be turned over to women. start with the 5 metros, and then to the tier-2 cities. this should be seriously considered. a tradition of martial arts and defense training in women needs to be encouraged and established. and no better way than to turn over internal policing to women, in phase-by-phase manner.

to me, the biggest positive development will be: De-Islamization and De-Abrahamization.

I do not know if that works. May be it works in this decade. When I was growing up, entire street policing in Vijayawada was given at 50-50 ratio to men and women. The jungle crowd started eve-teasing the police itself. However, I agree if the women police are well trained to be a semi-commado level with good amount of assault rifles in hands.

No, they cannot appear as merely women. They have to appear as potential killers. The lean mean BSF jawan who dispatched Pakis or the Kashmiri who took care of a Paki-scum. To set precedence, examples have to created. Phulan should have been inducted into a brigade. This image of woman being onlee the nurturer or the passive spreader of lower limbs has to go. Women are warriors too, and they can as easily terminate undesirable existences as men should be able to.

[brihaspati]

In democracy people do not select the leader they want. They select one of the people who stand up to be the leader. They cannot nominate a person in the voting process.

So a self-proclaimed leader has to stand up in the election.

The leaders just get people "mandate" in democracy for the intended term.

***
That is why they couldn't select a Bose or a Gabdhi or a Patel to be their leader.

The game is to make sure that the right person is not made available to the public to be chosen.

RamaY ji, all three were elected one way or the other - although only the first and the third stood competitive elections and won too. That they could not stay on in leadership was because of other issues. The first won in public body elections too.

[member_20317]

Everybody already knows what he has said. Others around have also judged the circumstances and truth of what is so said.

But if my assessment of our own citizens is correct then we need to treat them as children. Some tough love for the errant but a good margin for the laymen. Sure we have mombatti walas and misery musicians but these are the behaviour of people too stunned by the onslought of gratuitous advice delivered at the rate of absorption of the least common denominator through a system of desimination that is designed to stunt the vivek of our people. People are basically made to feel instead of being made to think and then their feelings are misused to confuse them further still by dishonest behaviour like Mombattis and affected intelectualism.

This daily rape of the common mans mind is so brutal that there is need for some kind of action today to sort the mess up.

Drama is good in movies but life is about living not about making a pretense. Is drame ka koi fit illaaj to karna hi padega.

[ramana]

From the way the fellows lured the victims, I think this is a repeat offense. There is background to the case not coming out. These guys are not first time offenders. That bus has been used before for similar crimes.

[chaanakya]

That is highly probable. nothing else can explain the confidence they had.