Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 21:07

This photo can compete with Shrimati Thatcher's photo

Nehru'ji in chaddi

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 26 Apr 2013 21:09

>>chaddi brigade

Really Murugan? If you, who appears to favour these chaps, casually use such terms, how can people blame the so-called "pseudo-seculars"?

I'm not saying its possible to defend that ridiculous uniform, or whatever it is, but why make it worse...

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Apr 2013 21:48

JE Menon-ji

I do not have any intention of either defending/promoting or hating RSS. I have heard this term Chaddi Brigade in BR first, and hence I mentioned.

RSS does not need a promoter, Narendra Modi is RSS product and so Atal Behari Vajpeyee, and there is no ridiculing of the dress. Nehru-ji, Rajiv-ji, Rahul-ji and Manmohan-ji had/has better dress sense, but what matters?

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 27 Apr 2013 12:42

From thenews.pk website:
Thousands rally in UK to demand end to anti-Islam speeches
The usual suspects were in action.

BIRMINGHAM: Up to 25,000 British Pakistani men, women and children from across the UK gathered in Aston Park here to express their love for Hazrat Muhammad (peace be upon him) and to call on the British government to introduce legislation that bars Islamophobes from insulting Islam under the garb of the freedom of speech.

What really surprised me was this bit though:

This is the fourth consecutive gathering for the biggest Melaad-un-Nabi (PBUH) of British Pakistanis in Britain but this year it was dedicated to “protect the honour and legacy of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH)”. Speakers included interfaith leaders from Christian, Hindu, Sikh, and Jewish religions and parliamentarians from Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrats.

Logon ka dimaag kharaab ho gaya kya? At first I thought that this was some thenews.com.pk faaltu news item, but there is some truth to their reporting. Doesn't appear to be 25K people there, but there is a sizeable contingent (perhaps 2K people) and there are definitely some non-paki speakers in there (an Irish gent giving a speech and few elderly Sikh gentlemen behind him.)

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 27 Apr 2013 13:54

ArmenT

ArmenT wrote:What really surprised me was this bit though

not really a surprise, if you want to make your career in politics you have to do and say the "right" things and attend the "right" sort of events. It's all about votes.
How many of those Sikh, Hindu interfaith leaders would want their child married to a follower of the RoP?
The water is simmering, the pressure cooker is slowly building up pressure and one day for sure it will explode. However in the meantime the politico's just like to put a nice face on things.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Apr 2013 13:56

>>RSS does not need a promoter, Narendra Modi is RSS product and so Atal Behari Vajpeyee, and there is no ridiculing of the dress. Nehru-ji, Rajiv-ji, Rahul-ji and Manmohan-ji had/has better dress sense, but what matters?

Remember it was you who used the term... If you learned it on BRF, shame on us. It is better to avoid such characterisations. It will help end slanging matches based on name calling.

As for RSS needing a promoter or not, there are enough who post here who, if they are honest will themselves, know whether that's an accurate expression of reality as we know it today or not. My personal feeling is that it needs a little introspection, and definitely some change. My feeling also is that it won't do it. Hairsplitting at the top will continue for the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile, capable people will move on, and pay lip service. Perhaps that's for the best. Who knows. Time will tell.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 27 Apr 2013 23:22

How we mock something, and what words we choose - might actually tell a lot more about the mocker's own mindset than we are aware of.

On BR, I came across this mocking of the dhoti - dhoti-twisting == fear/panic/self-abuse. For me it was a pointer to how Anglicized memes work on till now patiently - continuing the imagery of the "dhoti-clad" Indian "babu/middle-class" that was severely and continuously mocked at by the Brits in their imperial days. Those who use the "dhoti-twisting" as a mark of fear, are using The Brit mockery of the "Hindu", and totally disregarding the countless Indians who fought, or faced death bravely, against the Brits - wearing the dhoti.

I have not spoken about the chaddi-thing much. But what struck me before also - is the fact that we use an Indian word for underwear for something that is quintessentially British. Even while mocking the dress, we feel scared of appearing to mock a British dress item. We can only comfortably mock something Indian, and preferably "Hindu".

No-one dares to mock the sherwani-kurta brigade, or pyjama brigade - for example. One cannot imagine to lower those hallowed words in any possible way. How about mocking the ridiculous judicial functionary gear - completely unsuitable for the Indian climate, and borrowed from the Raj?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Apr 2013 08:42

Thanks for the feedback on status of Indians in UK.

Sounds like they are doing alright over there.

I was watching this documentary on Turks in Germany and was wondering if the same ghetto-ization is going on amongst Indians in UK.

I don't know if this isolation in Germany is due to the cold German culture or the Turks. But it sounds like trouble is brewing there.

disha · Post by **disha** » 29 Apr 2013 08:50

Call the suit brigade as "Penguins". If there is a desi word for it, adapt it and use it.

I have been calling all the presenters on desi news channels as "penguins" when they show up as one.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 29 Apr 2013 11:47

>> Chaddi Brigade re.

And I am surprised. When I commended RSS's work on BR since I have joined it was not that much noticed. I know RSS as back of my palm for last 35 years and I know it is the only organization that comes forward to help out beleaguered citizens irrespective of cast/creed/religion. I had closely coordinated with RSS during 2001 kutch quake and before that much more. I did not find anybody with that dedication working in biting cold of Kutch in that Khakhi Chaddi (known in RSS only, if it is not known to guys here), morvi flood, uttarakhan quakes, tsunami, orissa cyclone, White shirt, woolen cap, brown belt and black shoes with lathi. People who have not been swayamsevaks ever in their life can only make such comments - that chaddi brigade thingy, and I am not that person. I was just trying to take a gentle dig to those friends in BR but this has become an issue.

- 'Negativity' always make a person questionable

(In many states Chaddi is not == underwear, it is used for shorts)
e.g., http://www.gujaratilexicon.com/dictionary/EG/shorts*/
http://marathi.changathi.com/Dictionary.aspx (type shorts)

I also wonder, why very few cared to post good work of RSS on BR. And once done why it was mocked, opposed.

OT my last post on this subject.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Apr 2013 17:55

Murugan ji,
if you were pointing to me - I did not write "thingie", just mentioned the "thing" - indicating this as an "issue". I do not like the way it is often bandied about - in a bantering tone, if not always mocking. But for the opponents - it is indeed used in the "underwear" connotation and as sarcasm. Is it not better to drop such an usage if the word has multiple connotations suitable for use by enemies even within Indian linguistics? I do not want this one-sided derision of dresses connected or seen as connected to "Hindu" politics - mocking the "dhoti" or RSS dress with "chaddi" when similar supposedly good-humoured mocking doesn't go along for shirwani-kurta-"English"-suit.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 29 Apr 2013 19:38

Brihaspati-garu,

Not at all. not pointing at you at all.

This is about a person who had derided whole "hindu" thingy, mocked RSS, even mocked RSS chief and passed on funny remarks about his face etc, when somebody drew his attention he did not care and went on on BR for long time. Nobody found it even little disgracing.

Anyways, he is not around anymore. My point was why that rampant mocking went on for very long time but nobody found it offending, though, later a BR member (not an ordinary person) made it possible to make things smooth and that is past. OT

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 01 May 2013 00:25

LAW AND FREEDOM

Britain's last hope?????

http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 May 2013 04:46

Neshant wrote:

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 May 2013 17:05

Published on May 05 2013
Tory MP arrested on suspicion of raping 2 men: PTI

Deputy speaker of Britain's lower house of parliament and Conservative gay lawmaker Nigel Evans has been arrested by police for allegedly raping and sexually assaulting two men in their twenties.

Shows the moral degeneration of the British ruling class.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 May 2013 17:50

RajeshA wrote:Published on May 05 2013
Tory MP arrested on suspicion of raping 2 men: PTI
Deputy speaker of Britain's lower house of parliament and Conservative gay lawmaker Nigel Evans has been arrested by police for allegedly raping and sexually assaulting two men in their twenties.
Shows the moral degeneration of the British ruling class.

Just the Nawabi Habits.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 05 May 2013 20:40

rajesh-ji, its not a crime to be gay. the mp has denied all claims (and the police have released him after questioning) - it might be a media stunt by the 'victims' to get money also, but lets see if any real charges are pressed

in the olden days, they would have blackmailed him directly, now they are doing it via the media.
its become acceptable for politicians to be openly gay in the uk, didn't use to be the case a few years back - some prominent politicians were 'exposed' and had to resign, etc.

its become very common these days for kiss and tell media stories - for 2 mins of fame for the 'victim' (male or female)
that is where the degeneracy lies

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 05 May 2013 20:45

Surprising that PTI released that one...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 May 2013 22:39

Lalmohan wrote:rajesh-ji, its not a crime to be gay. the mp has denied all claims (and the police have released him after questioning) - it might be a media stunt by the 'victims' to get money also, but lets see if any real charges are pressed

in the olden days, they would have blackmailed him directly, now they are doing it via the media.
its become acceptable for politicians to be openly gay in the uk, didn't use to be the case a few years back - some prominent politicians were 'exposed' and had to resign, etc.

its become very common these days for kiss and tell media stories - for 2 mins of fame for the 'victim' (male or female)
that is where the degeneracy lies

Gay and all that, its okay if the Brits have no problem with it. But rape is rape. And 2 rapes are a pattern. I hope he gets his punishment. I am sure the two boys would be getting a trauma from all this. It is the habit of the old mighty (55 years) to prey on the young innocent (20s).

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 06 May 2013 02:21

Baba Ganesh
Believers worship aubergine as the reincarnation of god

He said: “My wife, Rekha, saw it and recognised the similarity with Ganpati Bappa – Lord Ganesh.

“We immediately placed it with reverence in the temple at work. It has been a blessing for us and I hope will bring us luck and prosperity.

“This has been sent to us and we shall treat this with the respect it deserves.”

Aubergine that looks like Hindu god Ganesh sees believers flocking to Leicestershire temple to pray twice a day

Its a good thing Mrs. Visram has decent eyesight, otherwise Ganesh-ji might have ended up as somebody's dinner.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 May 2013 13:23

eklavya wrote: Aubergine that looks like Hindu god Ganesh sees believers flocking to Leicestershire temple to pray twice a day

Its a good thing Mrs. Visram has decent eyesight, otherwise Ganesh-ji might have ended up as somebody's dinner.

If Jesus can show up on toast, why not Ganesh on an orange?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 06 May 2013 14:38

rajeshji - there is a wave of arrests and convictions under way in the UK of famous and important old men who have committed sexual crimes in their younger days - stretching back to 30-40 years in some cases. crimes against girls, boys, women and men - all by people in positions of power or influence. well known media personalities and politicians are biting the dust and being jailed right now. police call it "operation yew tree" and it is casting its net far and wide.

we will let the police and courts determine what the mp has done or not done, and if he has committed a crime, it is fairly certain that he will be punished. this case though is a bit murkier... my instinct is that the mp is being set up by some opportunists

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 May 2013 14:53

Lalmohan ji,

it could be true that there is some internal politics in all this, but for Mango Indian, it suffices if he has some muck to throw back at often insulting, gratuitous and condescending British remarks about India and Indians.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 06 May 2013 15:14

Indeed, or Mother Teresa on a Muffin in NY ... Lighten up guys.

Has anybody looked at the picture. It's a stretch

kish · Post by **kish** » 09 May 2013 17:48

Superior England hospital exposed..! Read it in full, it is as pathetic in Sub-saharan Africa.

Hospitals reveal 750 'should never happen' blunders

More than 750 patients have suffered after preventable mistakes in England's hospitals over the past four years, a BBC investigation has found.

The incidents, such as operating on the wrong body part or leaving instruments inside patients , are categorised by the Department of Health as "never events".

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 09 May 2013 18:12

Here is a true story and judge yourself.

One of my friends was diagnosed with a large brain tumor. Instead of operating straight away, the poor chap was told there is no slot left and hence have to wait for atleast 5-6 months before being operated. When he suggested he has the private option, they advised him that they are the best and the private option would be just a bunch of doctors assembled from various places. ( I personally think they wanted to see the tumor, more as a research subject). Anyway, he decided to wait for 6 months. During this time his condition deterioted. Nevertheless, he was alright enough for him to go to the "National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery" near Russel Square. They conducted the operation and declared it as a success. But he didn't make the recovery progress requried in 2 weeks and they needed the bed, so they just shifted him to a normal ward and his condition worsened in a day and next day he was gone!

They blamed it on post operative complications and washed their hands off. His wife couldn't do anything.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2013 19:24

my nephew is still recovering from the effects not being delivered in time. first of all my SIL could never really get to see a doc, just a gynae nurse practitioner. she kept delaying the delivery though my SIL was feeling its due date and feeling uneasy. end result was the baby ingested some waste matter in the womb, had to be delivered right from the ER workflow and had a very tough time even surviving in the ICU.

he is weak, small, sdre and same age as my daughter, who is 4 kg heavier and 4 inches taller than him at age2. she considers him a baby and drags him around by scruff of neck.

my wife also had a better exp delivering here in cradle than in the US hospital..the post delivery recovery room was tiny, the bathroom was like a phone booth...I had trouble squeezing in there with her to help her changes bandages etc. the bathroom in cradle was bigger than the US recovery room lol.

if one has the means, we can and will get better care here...however the avg std of care for the avg indian is still well below "bartania" stds ...I fully agree to that...but what I cannot fathom is why a rich country like UK allows this kind of goof ups.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 May 2013 19:32

^^^ hands on doctoring has been replaced with management and metrics - so actual healthcare is slipping and costs are not dropping (as hoped) due to culture of health and safety (to excess) and sense of entitlement of mango person. except for doctors, healthcare staff are not well paid and there is resentment towards private patients by the latter (doctors get paid for private care, they dont). the best way to ensure good standard of care is to go a mix of private and state health care in the UK. that said, emergency medicine is still pretty damned good. cost management is woefully bad and so weird resourcing decisions get made... bit of a mix up all together.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2013 20:25

Yes their er are said to be good. My bil had a serious neck accident being on a cycle and hit by a car. They saved his neck literally but he had to wait his turn to get the operation done later.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 09 May 2013 20:41

Pregnancy care and delivery in UK hospitals are a bit touch and go. If you are lucky, you will get the best and if not, you get worst. It depends on the area, hospital and generally the staff in charge that day. We had a good experience during delivery but our friend had a very bad experience from the same hospital.

Emergencies - IF they are really an emergency and requires immediate attention or its a child in question, you will be looked at immediately, otherwise if you broke an arm or have head injury with bleeding, they will give the immediate first aid, if necessary and then make you wait, usually its anywhere above 4-6 hours.

The common theme is that if it costs money, they will avoid it as much as possible. Like the above case of baby injesting meconium because they didn't want to do a ceasearian. In Indian hospitals, its the other way round - anywhere you can make money with less risk, they will go for that.

One thing I appreciate is that they are patient enough to answer all your questions unlike some doctors in India where they speak to you in a condescending manner or its only on a need to know basis. But sometimes they can scare the hell out of you as well by saying all the scenarios!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 May 2013 21:04

very roughly, the UK spends £1.5m/head/year to provide universal healthcare for everyone - its the 2nd highest item on the national budget (after welfare) and is about 4-5 times more than spend on defense. and it remains grossly ineffiecient. this is not including private healthcare spend.

kish · Post by **kish** » 10 May 2013 18:59

I believe britan found a way to drive out izlamic nutjobs.

Leicester schools halal lamb burger contained up to 50% pork

A halal lamb burger made by a company supplying Leicester schools contained up to 50% pork , the city council has confirmed.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 10 May 2013 21:17

50 % pork, big deal.
My son and his friends are not a moslem and he has to eat 100 % halal at school just so the school appears to be Politically Correct.

They can chew that over

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 May 2013 01:21

Corera, Gordon The Art of Betrayal: The Secret History of MI6: Life and Death in the British Secret Service

As well as being able to go into the country, the British were also able to support activities that the CIA could not. The Americans were still struggling under the burden of the Congressional inquiries of the mid-1970s into assassination and covert war. A few of the more wily CIA officers saw a way of getting round their own lawyers and restrictions by bankrolling the British to undertake certain actions. ‘They had a willingness to do jobs I couldn’t touch. They basically took care of the “How to Kill People” department,’ one CIA officer claimed later in an account of the war. ‘The Brits were eventually able to buy things that we couldn’t because it infringed on murder, assassination, and indiscriminate bombings. They could use guns with silencers. We couldn’t do that because a silencer immediately implied assassination – and heaven forbid car bombs! No way I could even suggest it, but I could say to the Brits, “Fadallah in Beirut was really effective last week. They had a car bomb that killed three hundred people.” I gave MI6 stuff in good faith. What they did with it was always their business.’ 33

British officials involved at the time shy away from American talk of ‘assassination’ but say fighters were trained in the use of silencers and sniper rifles as well as in the manufacture and planting of improvised explosive devices to blow up Soviet convoys. Fortunately for the British, these fighters allied to Massoud would be on their side in 2001 and in the battles that followed. This was not the case for those the Americans worked with like Hekmatyar and Jalaluddin Haqqani who received the bulk of American aid.

For Margaret Thatcher it was all simple. They were freedom fighters not terrorists. Abdul Haq came to visit Downing Street, one of his feet having recently been blown off. He had subsequently admitted to being behind a bomb blast at Kabul airport that killed twenty-eight people. When questioned as to why the Prime Minister refused to meet members of the Palestinian PLO or Nelson Mandela’s ANC, a spokesman for the Prime Minister said it was different as the Afghan rebels were fighting a foreign invader. 34 ‘They were good terrorists so we supported them. The ANC were bad. That caused her no moral problem at all,’ explains one of Thatcher’s former officials. The Chief of MI6, and his Director of Operations Colin McColl, would occasionally brief the Prime Minister on operations, but contact was sporadic – perhaps a forty-minute meeting every six months. Just as there was little contact on the ground between MI6 and CIA teams in Pakistan, there was relatively little co-ordination at the level of political leaders. MI6 was left to get on with its own business.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 May 2013 03:59

Ah, the Cold War, so it was not only Pakistan that got tumescent when Uncle Sam espied a war.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 12 May 2013 04:04

kish wrote:I believe britan found a way to drive out izlamic nutjobs.

Leicester schools halal lamb burger contained up to 50% pork

A halal lamb burger made by a company supplying Leicester schools contained up to 50% pork , the city council has confirmed.

There might be some taqqiyya clause where it is okay for a Momeen to consume pork or any other haraam substance as long as it is in the quest of killing or converting a kafir or groom a kafir-zanana for the carnal pleasure of the said ghazi.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 14 May 2013 01:45

Britain's Feckless, Two-Faced Approach to Radical Islam

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3704/ ... ical-islam

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 May 2013 02:40

KJoishy wrote: There might be some taqqiyya clause where it is okay for a Momeen to consume pork or any other haraam substance as long as it is in the quest of killing or converting a kafir or groom a kafir-zanana for the carnal pleasure of the said ghazi.

There is a clause of allowing it "to save lives" - in starvation case. This can be [and was historically] extended to cases of conditional pardon - forced to eat pork otherwise executed - etc.]

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 May 2013 11:37

The rise of anti-Semitism in Britain and the appeasement of radical Islam.

That a seniour Labour peer no less,has effectively been thrown out for anti-Semitism,shows how far gone the situ is in Britain of all places.The West's appeasement of radical Islam that threatens not only Israel,western democracies, but nations like India is resulting in nations like Britain becoming safe havens for the ungodly.Lord Ahmed should've been deported along with Abu Qatada .

Labour peer Lord Ahmed resigns from party over alleged anti-Semitic comments
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 14641.html

The senior Labour peer Lord Ahmed resigned from the Labour Party on Monday evening over allegations that he made anti-Semitic comments in a television interview.

Lord Ahmed was due to appear before Labour's ruling National Executive Committee on Wednesday to answer accusations that he blamed a Jewish conspiracy for his dangerous driving jail term.

Last night he said he was “very disappointed” with Labour’s handling of the situation, insisting he did not want to “appear before any kangaroo court where the rules of justice had been denied”.

He insists he does not recall making the alleged comments, and his solicitor said he would not be able to receive a "fair trial" from the Labour panel. Last night a Labour party spokesman confirmed his resignation.

Lord Ahmed was suspended from the Labour Party in March amid reports that he blamed his 2009 prison sentence - for sending text messages shortly before his car was involved in a fatal crash - on pressure placed on the courts by Jews "who own newspapers and TV channels".

The Muslim peer allegedly told an Urdu-language broadcaster in Pakistan that the judge who jailed him for 12 weeks was appointed to the High Court after helping a "Jewish colleague" of Tony Blair.

He later told the Huffington Post UK he could not "believe" it when he saw the reports of what he had said in a Pakistani television interview. He added that he was not anti-Semitic and said he did not have "any explanation or excuse" for his comments.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 14 May 2013 13:38

India 2.0
From the Telegraph

http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/india2.0/part-one