Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 26 Sep 2013 21:13

You mean WaPo is non Indian express ?
True one can see that way. There will not be much difference b/w both going ahead.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2013 21:13

Ramana,

I don’t agree with you that nothing can be done.

These sort of murderous thugs are cultivated in a bigoted, misogynist and racist muslim culture.
It does not happen by accident. By blaming islam we deflect culpability away from the muslims themselves.
It is their behavior and primitive attitudes that permit this to happen.

If the racists of the colonial period could be trapped driven back and dethroned, I don’t see
why the racist and bigoted muslim societies cannot be forced to reform.
The first step IMHO is to free the overweening control muslim men have over their women.
Their entire degeneracy is based on the bigoted illiterate women in their lives.
Shame will help as will national ostracism.

I have always said the most effective action the world can take is to ban all
immigration or travel FROM such areas to the rest of the world.
Even KSA society will come to heel in short order.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2013 21:19

Theo_Fidel wrote:Ramana,

I don’t agree with you that nothing can be done.

These sort of murderous thugs are cultivated in a bigoted, misogynist and racist muslim culture.
It does not happen by accident. By blaming islam we deflect culpability away from the muslims themselves.
It is their behavior and primitive attitudes that permit this to happen.

If the racists of the colonial period could be trapped driven back and dethroned, I don’t see
why the racist and bigoted muslim societies cannot be forced to reform.
The first step IMHO is to free the overweening control muslim men have over their women.
Their entire degeneracy is based on the bigoted illiterate women in their lives.
Shame will help as will national ostracism.

I have always said the most effective action the world can take is to ban all
immigration or travel FROM such areas to the rest of the world.
Even KSA society will come to heel in short order.

Completely agree with Theoji. Establish complete no-nonsense rule of law. Deny visas/trade with any of these countries.

It will have repercussions to countries like India.
- The India Muslims cannot go to Haj.
- Millions of Expats to ME will come home, but we have to find a way to employ them within India
- ME countries may stop exporting oil to India and this will force indirect purchase of Oil, costing a little more.

But it will facilitate integration of 200 million Indians into Bharat. The cost will be less than $1000 per Indian.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Sep 2013 21:22

RODDENT=Religion Of Death Destruction Excreatian Nutty Terrorisits have no place in humanity.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 26 Sep 2013 21:29

Paging JEM ji , RajaRam ji et al for info on whether the identities and national extraction of the 12 or more attackers has been established.

Massa and especially briturd media are on an overdrive with all kinds of stories related to the attack and are poised to occupy the eyeballs once the big splash hits - to mold the subsequent narrative their way.

So is there that big splash yet ?

PS: Wonder why the FBI agents have been landed into the investigation .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Sep 2013 22:21

Theo, Gentlemard, Where did I say nothing can be done?
Why this kind of unrepresentative facts?

On this forum and elsewhere I have done a lot to say what should be done to combat this phase of terrorism!!!!

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2013 22:43

Ramana,

Well then when someone proposes an idea just pooh poohing it gets us no where, nah!
Still I probably came on a little too strong, I apologize.

Look at it as a sign of frustration.
There is all this talk about eliminating Islam which is hopelessly impractical.
Yet no talk of the actual steps governments can take to force the muslims to change.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Sep 2013 22:58

But did I say that and in what context?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Sep 2013 01:22

Lilo,

Confusion all around over here... no one knows yet what the status of the attackers is... I've heard that 11 suspects have been detained, but no clue as to who among them were in the mall. One chap was apparently stopped while about to board a flight to Turkey, a British citizen..

My personal feeling is that the death toll will exceed 100...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2013 01:38

The chap at the airport was let off as it was a false alarm.

Nightwatch comments

http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/Ni ... 00205.aspx

Kenya: Comment: International media have covered the details of the attack on the upscale shopping mall in Nairobi. This note corrects one observation and provides some comments not made by others. Al Shabaab claimed responsibility for the attack today as revenge for Kenyan military operations in Somalia.

One commentator, in paraphrase, stated that the mall attack represents the new face of al Shabaab, following setbacks in southern Somalia by African peacekeeping forces backed by the West.

That is a misleading statement because al Shabaab started out as a terrorist group. It evolved with Somali tribal assistance into a fighting force capable of waging an insurgency and holding captured ground. Under pressure from international forces it has devolved back into a terrorist group, but operating in a different territory and using some different tactics.

It is less of a threat to regional stability than before, because it no longer is capable of threatening Mogadishu, which it did last year. In Somalia it has been defeated as a field force.

Defeat as a regional threat does not mean defeat as a terror threat. It always retained capabilities to operate as a terrorist force, which is immensely less complicated and easier than supplying men and materiel to field fighting forces. Thus, while the insurgent force is defeated, the terrorist force remains highly dangerous.

{Analogy is LeT vs HeI in Kashmir. Now both are terrorist forces.}[/url]

The insurgent force came close to capturing a national capital, killing hundreds or thousands. The terrorist force captured a shopping mall and killed at least 67 people. The shock from large numbers of deaths in a war zone almost always is less vivid than the shock from a smaller number of deaths in a shopping mall. That is the nature of terror.

The al Shabaab attack is interesting because the insurgent al Shabaab fighters had little or no experience of big cities and modern shopping plazas. Al-Qaida terrorists attacked the US Embassy in Nairobi in 1998, using truck bombs that killed more than 200 people. Nevertheless that operation was not as brazen or horrific as the shopping mall attack. Modern shopping malls did not exist in any territory captured by al Shabaab, who would have destroyed them in any event.

Whoever planned the Nairobi attack understood modern shopping malls. That includes knowledge of mall security, exits, shopper traffic flows, shopping practices and times, and possibly even how to rent store space in the mall. That implies the attackers had inside help or had members from outside Kenya who were familiar with modern shopping malls.

In both cases, members of the attack teams did careful and intelligent scouting and planning over a considerable period of time. The mall was not a target of convenience. The length of preparation time usually correlates to the size of the evidentiary trail that the attackers left behind. More to follow.

Most likely the Paki attack on Mumbai on 26/11 influenced the hearts and minds of world wide jihadis. The attacks on hotels, malls, cafes is a lesson from David Coleman Headley who recced such targets in Mumbai and forwarded them to the TSP/LeT terrorists. And DCH was a double agent for US.

Maybe the 'white widow' is British DCH?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2013 02:20

Quite gruesome destruction:

First Pictures of mall car park collapse

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 27 Sep 2013 02:21

Sorry if posted before:

Mastermind of Kenya mall attack studied in Pakistan, fought in Afghanistan & Kashmir (via WaPo) :

Al-Shabab leader’s ambitions appear to be as complex as his personality

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2013 02:25

Eye witness in Nairobi

I saw a white woman terrorist in the mall

The witness' brother was one of the first ones to be killed.

The woman is aka White Widow and has passport from South Africa. Interpol is looking for her.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 27 Sep 2013 07:11

Very cruel,sadists beyond words.
Warning: Graphic...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... diers.html

Eyes gouged out, bodies hanging from hooks, and fingers removed with pliers': Horrific claims of torture emerge as soldiers reveal gory Kenyan mall massacre details

Kenyan soldiers claim to find scenes of torture by mall terrorists
They say children found dead in food fridges with knives still in bodies
Men were said to have been castrated and had fingers removed

Hey but Mars bars were distributed, so claims the sanitization department of the press.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 27 Sep 2013 07:33

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/27/world ... .html?_r=0

Several Western officials said they had heard reports from the Kenyan military that some of the victims in the mall had been beheaded and butchered with knives. Kenyan officials declined to comment, but one Western security adviser, who was not authorized to speak publicly, said, “I fully expect it.”

“They had people under their control for three days,” the adviser said, referring to how the assailants had holed up in the mall with terrified shoppers hiding in several places.

So who gains by hiding the cruelty shown by these ~~terrorists~~ err militants?

Only days after heavily armed assailants stormed a crowded mall and killed scores of people in the capital, militants killed three people near the border with Somalia, Kenyan officials said Thursday, putting this country even further on edge.

Within one sentence heavily armed assailants turn into militants. In the next two sentences, they will be turned into Santa Clauses, distributing Mars candy to sweet little children! Go figure. Dunno what or who or which is more appalling? the perpetrators or the guys who sanitize the deeds of perpetrators.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Sep 2013 08:26

I am expecting this lovely group to also have a past history of cia and eu funding either as a peace offering to go hunt elsewhere or kept on shelf as a useful asset before going feral.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Sep 2013 08:32

And make no mistake if a larger team had attacked mumbai or the hasty response team of marcos and police had not engaged them immediately to keep them on the run, same scenes would be inside the taj and trident too. They did torture people in the limited time they had incl at the jewish hostel...such details were not made public by the sickular pm just swept under rug and israel asked to keep mum.

Lessons will be learnt from this and the lashkaris now straining on the leash to do something better for bragging rights.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Sep 2013 09:11

I know terrorist probably want this to be asked but as a "neutral" observer let me bite:

Briefly what is going on in Somalia?
How is Kenya involved in Somalia? How is it benefiting from this involvement?
Who else is involved and how are they benefiting from what's going on in Kenya/Somalia?

Looking at the map, it does have quite long coastline at a very strategic location of interest to US and Israel.

As I look at the map, I can't help but notice with amazement how Ethiopia in the close vicinity does not have any coastline almost like intentionally being denied to it by Eritrea, Dijbouti, and Somalia. Looks like some ~~British~~ Briturd mofo performed some cartographic artwork here too.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 27 Sep 2013 09:51

Satya_anveshi wrote:I know terrorist probably want this to be asked but as a "neutral" observer let me bite:

Briefly what is going on in Somalia?
How is Kenya involved in Somalia? How is it benefiting from this involvement?
Who else is involved and how are they benefiting from what's going on in Kenya/Somalia?

Looking at the map, it does have quite long coastline at a very strategic location of interest to US and Israel.

As I look at the map, I can't help but notice with amazement how Ethiopia in the close vicinity does not have any coastline almost like intentionally being denied to it by Eritrea, Dijbouti, and Somalia. Looks like some ~~British~~ Briturd mofo performed some cartographic artwork here too.

Actually the region's descent into hell started with the Soviets and their Cuban underlings.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a246166.pdf

.......start at page 66.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Sep 2013 09:54

Eritrea is a new country break off from Ethiopia. they had a long running war before it split incl use of Mig29 and Su27 by east euro mercenary pilots. South sudan is now about to become a country or already is.
Somalia does not enjoy a strong govt, control as such is fitful and various militias and warlords exist.

one thing about the Brits is they always home in on strategic coastal locations and choke points with precision. seychelles, djibouti, zanzibar, west indies, suez, aden, singapore, malaya, india, sri lanka, gibraltar, south africa ..... a long history.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 27 Sep 2013 14:43

Sorry to say but it appears that many of the victims are going to turn out to be of ethnic indian origin. The incident happened in middle of an event organised in the mall by the indian community of kenya.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Sep 2013 14:52

^^Yes heard of reports of some desi celebration happening in the mall as the attack commenced.
However ,those buried in the rubble are most probably the hostages taken by the terrorists for their final stand.

That said one can always expect Islamic terrorists to selectively target yindoos and other assorted foreign kaffir to be their hostages. There were after all greater than a thousand people in the mall when the attack commenced.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Sep 2013 15:17

It was a "Children's Cooking" festival sort of thing - hosted by East FM, I think, for which the DJ was Rohila Adatia Sood... a very popular personality in Nairobi, well known for her vivaciousness on radio - I heard her while in the car often. She was murdered. She was 6 months pregnant.

But Indian/PIO casualties would have been high at any time, and under any circumstances, at the Westgate as they were always a large proportion of the customers there...

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 27 Sep 2013 15:28

List of victims of indian origin

1) Ruhila Adatia-Sood, an RJ in kenya and six months pregnant
2) Mitul Shah, marketing professional
3) Rajan Solanki, a food entrepreneur
4) Anuj Virchand Shah, a shop owner in the mall
5) Neha Mashru, student
6) Jyoti vaya, housewife
7) maltiben vaya, baroda bank employee
8 Paramshu Jain, an eight yr old boy
9) Sridhar Natarajan, private employee
10) Sudharshan B Nagaraj, book trade
11) Ravindra Ramrattan, an economist from trinidad

Pictures released in the media that show the victims also appear to be ethnic indian so expect more. I have a bad feeling about the identity of the 71 hostages that died in the final phase.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Sep 2013 15:31

Thanks for the pointer JEM ji,

Turns out that Aman Sethi of Al-Hundi has done a descent report on the travails of Indian diaspora trapped in the Mall.

Indian diaspora caught in Kenya mall carnage

At half past noon last Saturday, Sangu Shah and her husband Anuj drove up the ramp of the basement parking of the Westgate shopping mall in Nairobi’s Westland neighbourhood.

At the rooftop parking four floors above her, Pavraj Ghataurhea, 17, and his grandmother Dalvinder Kaur stood amongst a crowd at the SuperChef Junior cooking competition hosted by Ruhila Adatia-Sood, a jockey with East FM, a radio station that played the latest Bollywood songs. Malti Vaya was there with her sister-in-law Jyoti; Manoj Jain, her colleague at the Bank of Baroda, was there with his children, Parmashu and Pooja.

Bushan Vidyarthi, a 76-year-old grandfather, sipped a coffee on the terrace of the Artcaffe; Harsha Shah was parked at the ground level, waiting for her driver to pick up her groceries from the Nakumatt, a super-market chain she owned with her husband Haku.

The car just in front of Sangu’s golden Mazda braked sharply. She looked out of the window and stared down the barrel of Kalashnikov. “I closed my eyes my eyes,” she said, “I folded my hands, I prayed.”

In minutes, gunmen allied to the Somali Al-Shabaab militia were everywhere. On the street, Harsha ducked as a bullet tore through the backseat of her car and smashed the windshield. Mr. Vidyarthi hit the ground and crawled to an exit as the man on the table next to his took a bullet to the stomach.

On the roof, the gunmen flung two grenades into the crowd at the cooking competition and opened fire. Pavraj, who once cycled 441 km to Mombasa to for charity, died on the spot, as did his grandmother, as did Malti and Jyoti, as did Parmashu, who was only eight years old, as did Ruhila, who was pregnant with her first child.

In the basement, Sangu opened her eyes; gunman had vanished. Where was Anuj? She opened the passenger door: he was sprawled face down on the concrete with a bullet through the back of his head.

The Ministry of External Affairs has confirmed that four Indian passport holders died in the carnage at the Westgate shopping centre in Nairobi, but community leaders of Kenya’s 70,000 strong south Asian diaspora believe at least 30 of their people died in one of Kenya’s greatest national tragedies.

Santosh Tiwari and Shahab Uz Zaman, both Indian passport holders, were en route to a meeting at Westgate but were delayed. Moved by what they saw, they have since begun compiling a list of victims. “The official figures say only four killed, but the loss to the community is much greater,” said Mr. Tiwari.

“We have conducted 12 funerals in the last three days. Another 10 will happen in the coming week,” said Kishorebhai Aasha, the priest at the Hindu Sabha crematorium, “The Muslims and Ismailis have lost a lot of people as well.”

The Westgate mall is walking distance from Parklands, the middle-class neighbourhood of the Shahs of Saurashtra. “Everyone here is from 52 villages near Jamnagar,” said Keshubai Shah, outside M.P. Shah hospital, a community facility built 80 years ago.

Apart from the Shah community, who came as traders as early as the 1800s, the Punjabis are present in large numbers. “My grandfather came over in 1897 as a stationmaster with the railways,” said Mr. Vidyarthi, who survived Saturday’s attack.

The British brought the Indians to build east Africa’s railway network, he said, “From Uganda to Mombasa, every stationmaster, rail-guard, engine driver, and coolie was an Indian.” Mr. Vidyarthi’s father, Girdhari Lal, set up The Colonial Times and wrote in favour of Kenyan independence.

In time, the diaspora settled around Parklands and built hospitals, schools and community centres.

“The Westgate Mall was a hub for the Indian community,” said Manmit Jabbal, an architect who designed parts of the Mall, “Almost 25,000 people visit the mall over weekends.” The mall is anchored by a two-storey Indian-owned Nakumatt grocery store, and has banks, shops, restaurants and a multiplex. “We end up visiting it three times a week,” Mr. Jabbal said.

Rescue operations began about two hours after the attack; the Red Cross and Kenyan military set up base in the Oshwal Community Centre, built by the Shahs. Many of the injured, from all ethnic groups, were rushed to the M.P. Shah and Aga Khan hospitals. Keshubhai’s company, Bakpharm Wholesalers, provided supplies for free.

“We have at least 158 injured, 40 are children,” said Pallavi Shah, a medical technologist who moved here from Mumbai in 1986. Over the weekend, she treated people pierced by bullets, shrapnel, granite chips, and glass shards.

Out at the checkpoints around the mall, Indian diaspora community service joined hundreds of Kenyans in providing refreshments to the troops. “We are all Kenyans now,” said Vipul Darji, a steel trader who moved here 30 year ago, as he handed out bottles of Coca Cola to weary soldiers.

Anila Dodhia didn’t enter Westgate that Saturday. She drove up to entrance but was turned away as she was carrying a gas cylinder in her car. “As I turned my car around, I heard gunfire and ducked under the seat,” she recalled, “I called my husband and said, it is only by god’s grace that we shall meet again.” Suddenly she saw a group of Bora Muslims, decked in traditional attire, running out of the mall with their hands in the air and the prayer of Allah on their lips. She slipped out of the car, mingled with the crowd and escaped.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Sep 2013 15:38

nvishal wrote:List of victims of indian origin

1) Ruhila Adatia-Sood, an RJ in kenya and six months pregnant
2) Mitul Shah, marketing professional
3) Rajan Solanki, a food entrepreneur
4) Anuj Virchand Shah, a shop owner in the mall
5) Neha Mashru, student
6) Jyoti vaya, housewife
7) maltiben vaya, baroda bank employee
8 Paramshu Jain, an eight yr old boy
9) Sridhar Natarajan, private employee
10) Sudharshan B Nagaraj, book trade
11) Ravindra Ramrattan, an economist from trinidad

Pictures released in the media that show the victims also appear to be ethnic indian so expect more. I have a bad feeling about the identity of the 71 hostages that died in the final phase.

Howcome Undie TV didn't consider the tragic incident of "famous Indian origin RJ who is six months pregnant getting killed by terrorists" to be worthy enough to report to its patrons ?

Yet it went ahead and prominently published regurgitated stories picked up from Western MSM about some Aussie architect and his pregnant partner, the infamous Mars bar donating terrorist ..... Etc

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 27 Sep 2013 15:48

These are a few pictures posted by Ruhila adatia sood on instagram of the cooking event. A few minutes later she was killed.

https://twitter.com/Ruhila

Shes the one in the middle in the fist picture

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Sep 2013 15:58

i fully expect that the terrorists picked out ethnic indians as obvious kaffirs and any whites they could get hold of

somalia is the hub of al-qaeda organised piracy and a strategic depth reserve for the foot soldiers from yemen and across north africa to hang out in. this is why unkil has a strong interest in kenya

kenya has been heavily involved, not because its fun, but because somalia presents a clear danger to it

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 27 Sep 2013 16:02

List of victims of indian origin

1) Ruhila Adatia-Sood, an RJ in kenya and six months pregnant
2) Mitul Shah, marketing professional
3) Rajan Solanki, a food entrepreneur
4) Anuj Virchand Shah, a shop owner in the mall
5) Neha Mashru, student
6) Jyoti vaya, housewife
7) maltiben vaya, baroda bank employee
8 Paramshu Jain, an eight yr old boy
9) Sridhar Natarajan, private employee
10) Sudharshan B Nagaraj, book trade
11) Ravindra Ramrattan, an economist from trinidad
12) Pavraj Singh Ghataurhae
13) Dalvinder Kaur Ghataurhae
14) Selima Merali
15) Nuriana Merali

Victim nos. 1, 14 and 15 are shia ismaili muslims

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Sep 2013 16:15

almost all the uk papers are now carrying stories of brutality, extreme callous violence and barbaric torture - all of which was done deliberately to provoke

ofcourse, zawahiri did announce a few weeks back that attacks were imminent

meanwhile, i propose that the various naval ships in the pirate zone off somalia and yemen shoot any suspicious boat out of the water first and ask questions later. in addition, a significant uptick in drone attacks needs to happen

and proper logistics and sigint and other forms of support for the african union forces in somalia

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Sep 2013 16:16

time and again, kenyans involved in the fighting talk about 'i wanted to shame the terrorists'
perhaps this is the theme as others have suggested previously on the thread, that has to be developed
what constitutes shame for these 'people'? how can it be administered?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Sep 2013 16:37

nvishal ji, looking back they are eerily beautiful snaps on the eve of an Islamist carnage,
wonder if that toddler in the light green pants escaped unhurt ?

Lalmohan wrote:time and again, kenyans involved in the fighting talk about 'i wanted to shame the terrorists'
perhaps this is the theme as others have suggested previously on the thread, that has to be developed
what constitutes shame for these 'people'? how can it be administered?

LM ji, only way to shame Islamist populations is tribal punishments leaving the erring group emasculated and at the mercy of their enemies.
Briturds used to do this with nwfp tribes of pakiland.

The FCR permits collective punishment of family or tribe members for crimes of individuals.[4][5] It permits punishment to be meted out by unelected tribal jirgas and denies the accused the right to trial by judiciary. Tribal chiefs can also be held responsible for handing over suspects charged by the federal government without specifying an offence. Failure to comply can make the tribal chiefs liable for punishment.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier ... egulations

More extreme types of jehadi's don't care for their tribe's good as much as they care for the 72 houris they are supposed to receive after death.Basically they have no shame left to shame. So just make sure they get all the pain they can experience before they leave.
I suggest impaling on stake surrounded by bulletproof glass in the middle of the town square or in front of the mosque (of the town/village which served as his recruit ing bed)- a person can be supposedly kept alive for few days if the stake is planted properly and all the prospective Jihadis and Gazi's willing to go Jeeehaaard will for once rationally weigh the choice between the very real and lingering pain for 2-3 days before he dies vs the dubious promise of eternal hex and comfort by 72 houris by the neighbor hood mullah. Then Most of average IQ and above will take the non violent decision for their life, me thinks - with few remaining inbreds of low IQ who are anyway likely to fail in their mission.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 27 Sep 2013 21:31

Hired_Shops_To_Hide_Weapons

The militants who led the attack on a Kenyan mall hired a shop there in the weeks leading up to the siege, senior security sources have told the BBC.

This gave them access to service lifts at Westgate enabling them to stockpile weapons and ammunition.

Having pre-positioned weapons they were able to re-arm quickly and repel the security forces.

Sixty-seven people are known to have died in the four-day siege. Kenya's Red Cross says 61 others are still missing.

Forensic experts are still combing the complex, looking for bodies and clues.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis

Karen Allen

BBC News, Nairobi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Terrorism is an exploitation of openings" was the way Ndung'u Gethenji, chair of Kenya's parliamentary defence committee, described to me the attack in Nairobi. And the gunmen at the Westgate siege exploited those openings to the full to mount a "spectacular" that has wounded Kenya - and left its people shaken.

That extremist gunmen could secure a base within the mall in the weeks leading up to the attack and pre-position weapons is in itself astonishing. But for many Kenyans, audacious as it is, it will come as little surprise when bribery remains the currency of everyday life.

A few "bob" - (Kenya shillings) to "look the other way" is not unusual here, despite the best efforts of many brave Kenyans to rein the problem in. Porous borders and a ready supply of weapons have long fuelled the threat of violence in Kenya - an AK-47 costs just $450 (£280) today if you know the right people.

Many Kenyans now hope the legacy of Westgate will be tougher action to tackle dodgy deals. The human cost of not doing so has already been laid bare.
The Somali Islamist group al-Shabab, which is part of al-Qaeda, says it was behind the attack and the following siege at the upmarket mall in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi.

Kenya is in its third day of official mourning for both the civilian and military victims of the attack.

Fake IDs?

The BBC investigation has revealed how the Westgate gunmen were able to plan and carry out the siege, and how security breaches allegedly fuelled by corruption made it an attack waiting to happen.

To rent a shop, the militants would have needed fake IDs supplied by corrupt government officials.

The BBC has also confirmed more details about how they executed their attack.

Two vehicles dropped the Islamist extremists off outside before they forced their way into the mall, sources say.

They are also believed to have set up a base using a ventilation shaft as a hiding place, on the first floor.

Security sources have also confirmed a change of tack by the militants late on Saturday.

They rolled out heavy calibre machine guns, exploiting the moment when control of the security operation switched from the police to the military.

There are reports that this switchover was fraught with confusion.

They show how parts of the rooftop car park have collapsed down onto what is believed to be the supermarket area.
The manager of a jewellery shop allowed back into Westgate showed the BBC photos she took, showing that the store had been looted.

President Uhuru Kenyatta declared three days of official mourning this week. The funeral of his nephew and his nephew's fiancee took place in Nairobi on Friday.

Amongst the funerals held on Thursday was that of Mitul Shah at the Hindu Crematorium. A marketing executive, his firm was reportedly sponsoring the children's cooking competition taking place in the car park.
The heads of the various security agencies have been summoned to appear before the parliamentary defence committee on Monday, amid rising concern over the authorities' preparedness for such an attack.

The committee's chairman, Ndung'u Gethenji, told the BBC that "people need to know the exact lapses in the security system that possibly allowed this event to take place".

He also said they needed to understand "the anatomy of the entire rescue operation" amid the allegations of confusion over who was in charge.

It is still not clear how many militants took place in the attack or their nationalities.

But senior sources within al-Shabab, which has repeatedly threatened attacks on Kenyan soil if Nairobi did not pull its troops out of Somalia, told the BBC by phone that they would not release the attackers' names.

A senior government official told the Associated Press news agency that the army had caused the collapse of a section of the mall on Monday.

The official, who did not want to be named, said autopsies would show whether this had killed the hostages or whether they had already been murdered.

Correspondents say there have been reports that the military had blown out a supporting column to bring the siege to an end - a controversial decision which, if confirmed, would raise the possibility that hostages' lives were seen as expendable.

Irene Anyango, manager of a Westgate jewellery shop, is one of the few people who has been allowed into the mall following the end of the siege.

"It was a nightmare… and the shop was a totally different place," she told the BBC.

Ms Anyango said 90% of the jewellery was missing from the shop, which is now flooded.

"As far as we know, for the last couple of days they were intact - we don't understand what's happening but they're not there," she said.

Many people not only face the trauma of losing family and colleagues but also the possibility of losing their jobs, she added.

On Friday morning, President Uhuru Kenyatta attended the funeral of his nephew and his nephew's fiancee at a church service Nairobi, where he addressed the congregation.

Mbugua Mwangi and Rosemary Wahito were among those killed in the mall on Saturday.

About 4,000 Kenyan troops have been sent to Somalia to help pro-government forces battle al-Shabab.

The group is banned as a terrorist group by both the US and the UK and is believed to have between 7,000 and 9,000 fighters.

Its members are fighting to create an Islamic state in Somalia.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Sep 2013 21:42

i am guessing that if reports of the terrorists killing the hostages and throwing them over the railings is true, then the army must have decided at one staget that there were no hostages left and then blew the roof down - but lets wait to see what they have to say

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Sep 2013 22:38

Lalmohan wrote:time and again, kenyans involved in the fighting talk about 'i wanted to shame the terrorists'
perhaps this is the theme as others have suggested previously on the thread, that has to be developed
what constitutes shame for these 'people'? how can it be administered?

Forgive me to bring Bharatiya History (This is what happened here = iti Iham Asit = Itihasam) into the picture.

We need to study and understand what malsI considers abhorring and shameful. And then do the same to these terrorists. After all it is the Asuras who seek boons (on how to die) and Devatas fulfill those wishes.

I suggest arranging female executioners who behead these jambies, followed by soaking the bodies with dog urine and then cremating with pork fat.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2013 22:46

Ramay Ji, remember each Mullah in public may say of Osama's acts "These are not done by a Muslim", but when it comes to his burial and prayer, many Imams led gatherings at prayers for him. Same happened for Kasab. And same will be for the Somali terrorists in Kenya.

saip · Post by **saip** » 27 Sep 2013 22:46

Stories of bravery.

Indian smeared herself in dead boy's blood to fool terrorists in Nairobi attack

Link

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 27 Sep 2013 22:49

Phoren experts visiting just as they did in mumbai

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 27 Sep 2013 22:51

Hero British dad killed after offering to become hostage to save lives of 33 children

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 27 Sep 2013 23:12

How terrorists planned and executed their heinous act at Westgate Mall

Details emerged showing how terrorists planned their heinous plot that unravelled at the Westgate Mall where over 60 people were killed during a four-day siege.

Reports suggest that the terrorists might have crossed over from Somalia, the base of the Al-Qaeda linked Al-Shabaab militant group, which has since claimed responsibility for the attack.

The gunmen are believed to have had a shop at the upscale shopping complex, where they masqueraded as businessmen, while using it as a haven to conceal some of the weaponry sneaked in over time.

A Turkish national who reportedly rented out his shop to “suspicious characters” at the Mall is among dozens of people interrogated by police.

The terrorists, who executed the midmorning Saturday raid and who Kenyan authorities estimated between 10 and 15, are thought to have spent a considerable amount of time rehearsing their atrocious plan.

The New York Times reported the plot was hatched weeks or months ago on Somali soil, by the Al Shabaab’s ‘external operations arm’.

Having secured a shop inside the mall, the terrorists and their accomplices had enough time to survey the building.

Police are investigating reports that some people visited City Hall’s Planning Department prior to the attack to obtain building plans for the mall.

They are investigating the possibility that their accomplices obtained the building’s blueprints to help in planning the attack by identifying key landmarks.

Little wonder that when they struck, the terrorists seemed to know even the most secluded places that offered them perfect cover. The terrorists were stationed at the most strategic places of the building — a sniper at the rooftop, another sniper on the second floor and another one at the ground floor.

Reports indicate the attackers also took cover in ventilation ducts, forcing commanders to instruct the Kenya Defence Forces soldiers to bring down all ventilation outlets. This was after hostile shots from the ducts wounded several KDF men.

The terrorists also stormed the building through the front door, basement and rooftop, meaning that they knew all the possible outlets.

Prior to the attack, to maintain their surveillance within the neighbourhood, investigators believe the terrorists put up in one of the residential houses in the area.

Suppliers of various goods and services who served the residential houses are being tracked down to help in profiling the attackers.

“We are following various clues on where these people are believed to have lived near the mall. We are moving well and want to know all the tenants near there and anyone who supplied food and other services to them,” said an officer involved in the probe but who declined to be named as he discussed a national security matter.

With their heinous plan complete, it was time to strike their target. The upscale shopping mall was a pricey target for the terrorists because residents of affluent neighbourhoods flocked it and also it was popular among expatriates. Therefore, it presented high chances of netting high profile victims.

Indeed, President Uhuru Kenyatta’s nephew, Mbugua Mwangi, and his fiancée, Rosemary Muthoni, were killed in the attack.

The President’s niece, a university don, sustained serious gunshot wounds. Three other close relatives, including his sister, were among those rescued.

The gunmen felled leading Ghanaian writer Prof Kofi Awoonor of the popular statement “Death has made war upon our house”.

But it was not just about picking the target, but also getting the timing of the attack right. By striking mid-morning on Saturday when most shoppers flock shopping malls, the terrorists intended to inflict high casualties.

With an official death toll of 67 including six security agents (Red Cross reported 69 and 71 missing), add to reports more bodies are buried in the rubble, over 200 injured and 1,000 rescued, and their ill-plan was ripe.

FORCED THEIR WAY THROUGH

The attackers, estimated at between 10 and 15, split themselves into two gangs. This enabled them to launch a multi-pronged attack on the shopping complex. The terrorists attacked the mall from the basement, front door and from the roof-top, killing as many people as possible.

A review of CCTV cameras at the mall reveals that the gunmen gained entry from the front and rear side of the building through the parking yard. The attackers pulled up at the shopping complex at about 11.30am in three vehicles and refused to have their cars inspected by Securex guards contracted to offer security at the building. They moved to the parking lot with the guards in tow. The Securex guards made a call to Parklands Police Station asking for help. They also sought the help of the Head of Security at the mall, Maurice Adembesa, to resolve the impasse. Adembesa, carrying a walkie-talkie, walked towards the vehicles but the attackers sprayed him with bullets.

They then came out of their cars and started shooting at people indiscriminately.

“We heard gunshots and thought that it was a normal robbery,” said Mr Ben Mulwa, a politician who survived the attack. “I saw four gunmen shooting at everyone.”

Mulwa says that the gunmen wore a head cap known as keffiyeh in Arabic, a favourite of former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. The attackers were carrying rifles, sub-machine guns, and small backpacks.

The first gang attacked a café at the entrance of the mall. They shot indiscriminately and hurled grenades. While inside the building, the terrorists first targeted Urban and Gourmet Burgers.

“The bullets went through my arms then blood started oozing,” Arnold Nicholas, 22, a waiter at the shop recalls. The other gang of four stormed the mall’s parking yard using the main parking entrance.

They then walked upstairs through the ramp to the upper floor where the Radio Africa Group’s East FM hosted a cooking contest. At the rooftop, they shot at poor kids. CCTV footage shows two attackers shooting at the crowd that included women and children and hurling two grenades. One exploded. Police later collected the unexploded one.

Earlier at the parking yard, they had killed a pregnant woman who tried to argue with them. They were seen pointing guns at people at close range while shouting. According to Raisah Viranah, 15, she saw six of the terrorists who shot at anyone who looked at them in the eye. The men were wearing jeans and t-shirts, one with an Arabic headscarf wrapped around his head. They had pistols sticking out of pockets and were carrying huge guns.

Mr Bernard Wambua of Radio Africa Group says that he saw a white woman leading the attack. The woman shot at people scampering for safety. Believed to be the “White Widow”, Samantha Lewthwaite, she is said to have pointed out targets. With her gun, she shot at a gas cylinder at the venue of the East FM-organised cooking competition for children, resulting in a small fire. She also shot at several microwaves. On Thursday, Interpol issued a Red Notice at the request of Kenya, seeking the capture of Lewthwaite. Interpol circulated the images of the woman on its website requesting public assistance to capture her. An Interpol Red Notice, or internationally wanted persons alert, asking member states to arrest the wanted suspects, represents one of the organisation’s most powerful tools in tracking down international fugitives.

The terrorists shot at anyone who screamed. The gang that burst through the front moved upstairs to the first floor as their accomplices, who had accessed the building through the rear doors, also came down. The first floor hosts a food court that was busy at the time. The gunmen shot terrified people from the back as they fled. The attackers are captured on footage firing at doors of washrooms to take out those seeking refuge there. The gunmen then retreated into the supermarket as a lull fell, preparing for a confrontation with Kenyan security forces.

ORDINARY ROBBERY

With the shooting intensifying, various units from the National Police Service namely Flying Squad, Special Crimes Unit and Administration Police responded. The first police officers, nine in number, entered the building mistaking the attack for normal robbery.

Lower Kabete police chief Stephen Lelei, who coordinated the initial operation, was injured at about 2.28pm and a fellow policeman shot dead.

A British off-duty SAS officer who was in the mall at the time killed two of the terrorists.

Over an hour later at about 4pm, police made the first attempt to advance into the building. They were forced to retreat after facing heavy gunfire.

Word had by then gone out that authorities were dealing with a bigger crisis. The military was assembling a team from Lang’ata Barracks, the Maroon Commandos, 75 Artillery battalion men based in Embakasi and men from the Moi Airbase in Eastleigh.

Away from Nairobi, a more deadly force of Kenya’s Special Operators was on standby. KDF’s elite units, 40 Ranger Strike Force, 30 Special Forces and 20 Parachute Battalion, arrived at the mall on Saturday at 2pm armed with two types of combat rifles, the American M4 combat, the US Army's primary individual combat rifle for Infantry, Ranger and Special Operations forces that allows its user to better operate in close quarters combat, and FN Scar rifle, another Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle.

CCTV FOOTAGE

Police sought the help of Securex, the security firm, to try and find out if they could access the closed circuit cameras.

They said it was not possible but they sought the help of a hacker anyway. They accessed the first footage of the men who took over Westgate.

Photos and videos in our possession reveal two attackers walking inside Nakumatt Supermarket in black headgears carrying guns and bags of ammunition.

In another photo, there are another two terrorists, with one having his head completely uncovered.

The man in black shoes, a white sagging trouser and black jacket with bullet magazines strapped all over his abdomen, has a gun on his right hand as he flashes a finger salute. His fellow attacker, who also had sagging jeans, has a bullet magazine belt and is carrying an AK-47 rifle.

These are part of the terrorists who killed innocent people using bullets, explosives and cut the hands and legs of some of them and then sent them down the escalators to a waiting team of rescuers.

MULTI-AGENCY ASSAULT

On Sunday, the terrorists moved from room to room in the mall looking for hostages to kill.

Without having given any demands, security agencies decided to carry out a multi-agency assault involving combined elite forces so as to rescue the hostages.

“We thought that we were to walk in and come out,” a soldier told us as he drank milk to “wash” heavy smoke inhaled from the mall.

This was the failed “final assault” that ended with 10 KDF men injured and three terrorists killed.

By Sunday evening, both the police and military had claimed that they had taken control of the CCTV surveillance system of the building.

“We now have control of the CCTV system and comms (communication) of the building,” KDF Public Information Officer Colonel Cyrus Oguna said on TV on Sunday evening.

Kenyan security agencies also claimed to have secured the first and second floors of the mall after “forcing the terrorists to run towards the third and fourth floors,” as one official put it.

However this was far from the truth.

For the better part of Monday, the military and the terrorists engaged in a heavy exchange of fire. At about 1.30pm, the first huge blast was heard from the building, sending emergency units, police and media scampering for safety.

Earlier on Monday morning a sniper had killed three KDF soldiers.

The heavy blast was followed by sustained heavy gunfire as hostages screamed for help. Four hours later, there was persistent gunfire from various sections of the mall.

“When the KDF men pushed into the building, one of the terrorists blew himself up, leading to a huge fire that caught parts of the building especially the supermarket. The terrorists then started burning mattresses and throwing them to lower floors resulting in a heavy smoke.

It’s the explosions and huge smoke that the Internal Security Minister Joseph Ole Lenku said was as a result of “ terrorists burning mattresses.”

After some time, the roof and parts of the supermarket caught fire and began caving in, trapping the hostages under burning debris. Two floors made from wood also came down.

“We received a call that we go and put out the fire,” a Nairobi City Council firefighter told The Standard. “We feared for our lives but the soldiers assured us of our security.”

The firefighter says that he heard several women wailing as a result of the smoke.

“They continued screaming for help even as we left after putting out the fire,” he told us.

By Monday evening, the troops had surrounded the basement, first, second and the last floor of the mall. “However the heavy smoke forced us to retreat,” one of the soldiers told The Standard.

THE FINAL ATTACK

By the end of Monday, security agencies had made a decision on collateral damage.

During the evening, all vehicles belonging to security agencies, emergency units and the fire brigade were moved further from the mall for the most important and most dangerous attack since the siege started.

As early as 3am, the troops marked out for the final attack got into top gear, rehearsing the assault that started a few minutes before 6am when they stormed the mall for a final attack.

Entry was through multiple points, including a section of the wall that the 75 Artillery men brought down.

A sniper who shot dead some of the terrorists, described it the toughest job of his life. “I waited and waited for hours to locate the snipers who had killed and injured my colleagues,” said the soldier.

The attackers were armed with weapons, explosives and ammunitions enough to hold off an army unit. One of the KDF units carried over 10,000 bullets from their armoury.

The identity of the terrorists still remains a mystery that forensics examination currently on-going might hopefully solve. However, the powerful response to about 10 to 20 terrorists holding Kenya’s best trained security agencies for three good days paints the picture of men trained to die while being the last men standing.

In a briefing, the Chief of the Kenya Defence Forces General Julius Karangi said international terror suspects had masterminded the attack.

Interviews with emergency response units, military and police personnel and the people who survived the massacre point at a well-organised, well-equipped, well-rehearsed and a suicidal terror gang that burnt even their own killed in the four-day siege so as to hide their identity.

“How they possibly obtained such kind of rifles I cannot know but I am certain that they are not the kind of weapons you carry across the streets on the day of attack,” the KDF sniper says.

As early as 7.08am, about an hour after the start of the assault, KDF had taken over 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors.

By 8.45am, KDF was yet to take control of the fourth floor. The fight lasted for another one-and-a-half hours until KDF took control of the entire battle-scarred building. Various types of weaponry including rocket propelled grenades (RPGs) and the 84mm anti-armour anti-tank weapon system, a true multi-role, man-portable shoulder-fired weapon was deployed for the attack.

Details of the terror plot emerged amid reports that the Israelis had warned Kenyan authorities that militants planned attacks on their key interests in the country.
The terror alert reportedly was relayed to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as late as September 13, a week to the attack on Westgate shopping complex.

“The Israeli Embassy in Nairobi has raised concern with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Kenya over possible terrorist attacks on their citizens during the Jewish Holidays period between 4th to 28th September 2013, by Iran and the Hezbollah whom they accused of collecting operational intelligence and open interests in Israeli and Jewish targets around the World including Kenya,” reads the situation report.

An earlier assessment of threats in 2011 had identified shopping complexes, including Westgate Mall and Holy Family Basilica, as possible targets of terrorist attacks.

It named Sheikh Abdiwelli Mohamed, Sheikh Hussein and Sheikh Hassan as the masterminds of the plot. They are believed to be in possession of two suicide vests, 12 hand grenades and two AK-47 rifles, and have already surveyed the two targets. They are being assisted by Sheikh Hassan alias Blackie of Majengo and Omar Ahmed Ali alias Jerry who are currently staying near Mamba Petrol Station and Huruma Mosque along Juja Road.

A situation report dated February 1, 2013, warned of “Mumbai-attack style”, where the operatives storm into a building with guns and grenades and probably hold hostages.”

It is on the basis of the intelligence reports that the National Intelligence Service reportedly communicated the threat to relevant agencies, according to the report.

However, the NIS action could not be independently verified.

The report claims briefs were made to the National Security Council members informing them of increasing threat of terrorism and of plans to launch simultaneous attacks in Nairobi and Mombasa on 13th and 20th September, 2013.

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