India nuclear news and discussion

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sraj
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by sraj »

Speaker considering privilege notice against PM
Raising the issue, Basudeb Acharia of CPM alleged the Prime Minister failed to fulfil his promise to the House made in July that he would come back to Parliament before operationalising the Indo-US civil nuclear deal.
If GoI's defence is that the US-India 123 has "not entered into force" and therefore has not been "operationalised", the Opposition (and some members of the UPA) need to ensure that it does not enter into force without a specific resolution in both Houses supporting it having been passed.

Before these resolutions are passed, Parliament needs to enact the Jekyll Act (a term that is used as a catchall to include one or more new laws, and amendments to existing laws)
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Sanku »

amit wrote: You know boss you're so predictable!
I stopped reading after this; since you put so much effort into that long post; I though you at least should know why you wont be getting a response to that one.

Cheers...
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by amit »

Sanku wrote:
amit wrote: You know boss you're so predictable!
I stopped reading after this; since you put so much effort into that long post; I though you at least should know why you wont be getting a response to that one.

Cheers...

I'm always grateful for small mercies.

Thank you.

PS: It's interesting that you equate effort with the length of a post and not with its content (I am assuming that since you did not read the post you don't know the quality of its content).
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Sanku »

At the risk of sounding pompous and thus being considered somewhat of a blackguard -- I just want to say (to those who bother with my posts) "I told you so".

While the judge is still out writing his final summation (Arun_S and his SRR article) I would like to say that at least to my mind the predictions I had made for how the events would unfold has come about pretty closely -- Basically at each step post J18 when the gaps between the promise and the delivery started happening -- there were many that did hold the POV that it was not possible to hazard a guess at the future based on the past and we may still have the clean unconditional waiver. However I was one of the folks who maintained that this was a pretty clear salami slicing exercise and there was no way to go but down given the trajectory of the options (my last hope was a parliament vote applying the breaks -- unfortunately that was subverted)

We have a deal which even at best can not be called anything which is clean and unconditional -- where as we on paper wanted that. Now whether this is the best deal under the circumstances or in a real world this is what will happen or XYZ.... is actually not germane to this particular discussion. Here I look at only the gap between the promise and the delivery and the way each step has gradually sliced the salami much as was predicted.

Based on the success of my past predictions I want to venture forth into making some more -- I predict a bleak and dire future. IMHO as has been eloquently phrased; we are walking into a charkavhuya. The next layers are already evident with the usual suspects including the HFL lobby stepping up to tighten the silken ropes. Thanks to renukb with the excellent cache of news article; the contours of the attack (though on predictable lines) are forming up.

To carry on with the Chakravhuya analogy further -- we know what happened to Abhimanyu -- but Abhimanyu did it out of choice; it was a made for him by his Pitamaha's to defeat Pandva's. Will Nuclear field in India be Abhimanyu to later trigger Arjuna's wrath? Or else Who will be the Abhimanyu in India to save Nuclear field. Tough to say but one thing is for sure -- one way or other Abhimanyu dies.

And the foremost thing to always remember is who crafted the Chakravhuya for Pandava's knowing them as they would know their own sons.

I wonder what was RayC Sir thinking when he said "India is already mortgaged to America"
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Philip »

"Mortgaged" indeed.Read (in the naval thread) how we are rushing to join NATO's navies and "kick (pirate) ass" in Somalia along with Uncle Sam.India has through this insidious deal,as said before "self-castrated" itself and like obedient bullocks been "yoked" to US interests until some future strong leader tears the toliet paper of the deal to shreds or flushes it down the tube. A nuclear nation wedded to a bullock cart foreign policy!
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

There are bound to be overlapping interests between nations, and, the Somalia situation is one such. It really cannot be seen as a lead-follow situation. The real test would be how individual navies react - protect all or only national/group interests.

On nuclear issues, as a non-techy, I have been trying to educate myself on issues - at a very high level. And, I do see a brighter future for India - provided India follows the three phase plan. I have been very suspicious of GNEP and any swing away from the three phase to a global approach would be a great indicator of Indian capitulation to the US, in particular. But, I definitely feel that the US pressure would be really huge to move to a GNEP model and in the process dump the three phase model.

One last thought. I do see an Indian inertia, something that no other nation has: a huge "middle class" + a great geo location. No Japan nor EU has these built-in feature set. However, India also has a negative that is unrivaled - stinking politics, led by a useless and draining chai-biscut mentality.

There are other issues that, really, even more important than what we discuss: infrastructure for instance. No amount of reactors will solve that issue and one that needs immediate attention - no matter how the economy is doing.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Sanku »

NRao wrote: I have been very suspicious of GNEP and any swing away from the three phase to a global approach would be a great indicator of Indian capitulation to the US, in particular. But, I definitely feel that the US pressure would be really huge to move to a GNEP model and in the process dump the three phase model..
It is my claim that the entire treaty is as much about destabilizing the 3 cycle plan as it is about capping the bum ability. I think the two goals have been closely interlinked as per program since Dr Bhabha.

Prepare to see articles mourning the great desi incompetence in reaching for the moon (3 cycle) while praising Bush+Manmohan combine is saving India from dumb Indians again by having a solution ready in time to replace the never ready DAE. I expect to see those in immediate future. Some one must have know that 3 cycle was at critical juncture and must be killed/appropriated before the genie is out of the bottle and some one must have told that other some one.

As usual predictions -- but so far I have not been wrong.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by renukb »

Philip wrote:"Mortgaged" indeed.Read (in the naval thread) how we are rushing to join NATO's navies and "kick (pirate) ass" in Somalia along with Uncle Sam.India has through this insidious deal,as said before "self-castrated" itself and like obedient bullocks been "yoked" to US interests until some future strong leader tears the toliet paper of the deal to shreds or flushes it down the tube. A nuclear nation wedded to a bullock cart foreign policy!
So what's next, India is going to fight NATO/US wars? Bleed our blood to build US/NATO?
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Lalmohan »

Indian ships are going to the Gulf of Aden to protect Indian ships carrying on maritime trade for India. even today another Indian crew has been taken hostage. High time IN took active part in protecting Indian ships on the high seas.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

renukb wrote:
So what's next, India is going to fight NATO/US wars? Bleed our blood to build US/NATO?
What do the developments w.r.t. the Indian Navy off the African coast tell you?
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by ramana »

The weird thing about the Uk tests is how many of them are low yield guessing them to be on the primary side. To me it appears that is where their concern is, whereas on Indian side its the other side that is challenging. The pry side is piece of cake for India. The French and PRC appear to always test the combined assy.
--------------

IN should take over protecting all intl shipping, except the US ones already escorted, from the Cape of Good Hope to Malacca.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

Sanku wrote:
NRao wrote: I have been very suspicious of GNEP and any swing away from the three phase to a global approach would be a great indicator of Indian capitulation to the US, in particular. But, I definitely feel that the US pressure would be really huge to move to a GNEP model and in the process dump the three phase model..
It is my claim that the entire treaty is as much about destabilizing the 3 cycle plan as it is about capping the bum ability. I think the two goals have been closely interlinked as per program since Dr Bhabha.
Understandable.
Prepare to see articles mourning the great desi incompetence in reaching for the moon (3 cycle) ..........................
JMTs:

The Indian techs are too far advanced to close shop. These techs are not just beneficial for India, but actually far more beneficial than the imported techs for the rest of the world. The Indian techs are far more advanced, cheaper and safer in all respects.

IF at all there is a weak link: as you mention: Indian politician/s.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Gerard »

The weird thing about the Uk tests is how many of them are low yield guessing them to be on the primary side.
It appears the UK used their own primary but kept the US designed secondary for their versions of the air dropped and Chevaline Polaris SLBM warheads.
With the move to Trident, they used the US primary but modified it.

One capability the UK military wants to keep is a low yield tactical option (no boost, partial boost etc). They seem quite satisfied with 100 kt yield for strategic weapons.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by renukb »

N-deal would not help India make weapons: Bush
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14782101
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by renukb »

The Real Story Behind the U.S.-India Nuclear Deal
http://www.alternet.org/audits/103313/t ... lear_deal/

The recently passed nuclear pact was not just a late win for an unpopular president, it was a coup for lobbyists and defense contractors.

At about 2:30 PM on Wednesday, October 8th, President Bush signed into law H.R. 7081, the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act, a.k.a. the "U.S.-India nuclear deal." In attendance were Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who is credited as the architect of the deal, members of Congress and an array of Indian American supporters. It was the final milestone in a long road that started on July 18, 2005, when President Bush and India's Prime Minster Manmohan Singh announced the deal in a surprise joint statement. It was also a good photo op for a beleaguered president whose legacy will be an ill-conceived war and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

The legislation signed by Bush is technically known as the 123 Agreement because it amends section 123 of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act of 1954, which regulates U.S. cooperation with other nations in nuclear matters and prohibits trading with states that have not signed the 1968 Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). Not only is India a non-signatory to the landmark treaty, it is, along with Israel and Pakistan, also in contravention of its underlying principle, having secretly developed the bomb by transferring fissile material from its civilian program.

But while the point of the legislation was ostensibly to enable India to meet its energy needs, in reality it was about much more than that. The primary motivation is the U.S. embrace of India as a strategic partner.

An important, unlikely ally

India is no small prize. A founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement and a traditional champion of "third world" countries at the U.N. and the World Trade Organization, gaining India as a collaborator rather than an adversary was not a stroke of genius by the Bush administration. It started under President Clinton, but could not be consummated because of India's nuclear tests in 1998. (Strobe Talbot, Deputy Secretary of State under Clinton, describes this in his book, Engaging India: Diplomacy, Democracy, and the Bomb.) Faced with the rapid

decline of the U.S.'s global popularity in the world and desperate for a foreign policy success, getting India on our side became a "win-win" proposition for the Bush administration. But the so-called "nuclear irritant," as Bush called it, was standing in the way. It had to be removed.

The payoff was immediate. India voted twice against Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). According to an article published by the Campaign Against Sanctions and Military Intervention in Iran, a former Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Non-Proliferation, Stephen Rademaker reportedly remarked at a meeting in New Delhi in February 2007: "The best illustration of this [change in India's attitude] is the two votes India cast against Iran at the IAEA. I am the first person to admit that the votes were coerced."

Rademaker left the State Department in January 2007 to take up a "lucrative" job with Barbour, Griffith and Rogers, the firm hired by the Indian Embassy in Washington to lobby for the deal.

India's actions did not go unappreciated. While expressing his frustration with India's continued pursuit of an Iran-Pakistan-India natural gas pipeline deal in the face of U.S. opposition, at a hearing for the 123 Agreement this summer, Congressman Gary Ackerman, Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee's Middle East and South Asia

subcommittee, called India's IAEA vote "courageous." But, he warned, he would not continue to make nice if India kept pursuing the pipeline. "Continued pursuit of the pipeline or other investments in Iran's energy sector ? will halt and potentially even roll back the progress made in bilateral relations over the last several years," he said.

As Noam Chomsky observed in a recent interview, India seems to be playing on both sides of the street. Unfortunately, it can't go on for ever.

A "strategic partnership"

That the nuclear deal was about much more than nuclear energy was evident from the title of the hearing this summer, which took place on June 25th: "More than just the 123 Agreement: The future of U.S.-Indo relations." A cursory search of the transcript for the word "Iran" found it mentioned a total of 96 times, compared with 81 for "nuclear" (with the two often mentioned in the same context). Of the three witnesses who testified before the committee, all were old State Department hands and cheerleaders for the deal. No skeptics were invited, not even for the appearance of balance.

In a report sent to Congress this September, President Bush acknowledged India's cooperation with American initiatives, referring specifically to India's votes in the IAEA: "The Government of India has taken several steps to support the U.S. and to bring Iran back into compliance with its international obligations, particularly those pertaining to its nuclear weapons program." In addition, "India has also maintained a strong public line of support for P5+1 and U.S. diplomatic efforts to resolve international concerns with Iran's nuclear program," Bush said, referring to efforts that are viewed by most of the rest of the world as coercive and discriminatory towards Iran.

For their part, high-level Indian government officials promoting the deal have also waxed enthusiastic about the transformation of the India-U.S. relations. In December 2005, then Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran, the point man for the deal, delivered a speech at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, D.C. titled "Transforming India-U.S. Relations: Building a Strategic Partnership." The U.S.-India deal, he said, was a "declaration" that U.S. and India were moving towards a "global partnership," based not only on "common values," but "common interests" as well. These included the "promotion of democratic values and practices," and "combating terrorism and WMD proliferation" -- a whole-hearted embrace of the Washington consensus and evidence that, as former U.S. Ambassador Teresita Schaffer told the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Indian foreign policy has "turned around" from the days of non-alignment.

A further sign of the growing strategic partnership is the rapidly strengthening defense link between India and Israel. In the past decade, as the relationship has blossomed, Israel has stepped in as a major supplier of weapons and sophisticated military hardware to India as a surrogate, since because U.S. firms were blocked from selling to India because of remaining sanctions and also because of inevitable protests by Pakistan. Israel is now India's second largest arms supplier.

The Israel lobby was instrumental in garnering congressional support for the deal. In January this year, in an unprecedented move India launched a sophisticated Israeli satellite, the TECSAR, which could boost its intelligence gathering capabilities regarding Iran, according to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. The satellite, manufactured by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), was sent into orbit from the Sriharikota Launching Range in India using an Indian rocket. According to the Jerusalem Post, the launch of the TecSar was the first launch of an Israeli satellite aboard an Indian missile and it is part of growing Indian-Israeli cooperation,which is scheduled to eventually lead to the launching of two more satellites. While Indian space officials facing criticism at home and abroad characterized the launch as a strictly commercial venture, the significance of it was not lost in Iran and elsewhere.

Alongside the joint statement, the United States and India signed a ten-year defense pact, which envisages global collaboration in multilateral operations, expanded two-way defense trade, increased opportunities for technology transfers and coproduction, increased collaboration on missile defense, "and the list goes on," said Chairman Ackerman at the hearing.

A deal "crafted with the private sector firmly in mind"

The signing of the defense pact is a clear, significant sign of where India wants to be in the future. So is India's support for the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan. But perhaps most importantly, the defense pact has opened the door for the selling of U.S. military equipment to India.

As Chomsky pointed out, Condoleezza Rice was "actually on record admitting what is truly behind this deal." Indeed, testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 5, 2006, the Secretary of State made it clear it was about opening a new market for American technology: "At its core, our initiative with India is not simply a government-to-government effort. It was crafted with the private sector firmly in mind." She was not just talking about the nuclear industry, which is predicting a $100 billion market in India in the next 10 or 15 years. Boeing, for example, is reportedly projecting a market of $15 billion for its own products in India over the next 10 to 15 years.

In his testimony before the House committee this summer, Stephen Cohen, a Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institute and an old India hand, said that India will be "one of the largest markets for defense equipment in the coming two decades." India's recent purchase of six C-130J aircraft -- made by Lockheed Martin -- was the "biggest ever Indian purchase of American equipment in dollar terms." The deal was worth more than one billion dollars.

Walter Andersen, a former State Department intelligence specialist who also testified, described the Indian Navy as an even more promising area for sales. With 35 ships in the works, India is now embarked on "one of the most ambitious naval building and procurement plans in the world," he said. And, he added, the U.S. -- and perhaps other U.S.

allies like Japan and South Korea -- is more competitive as the "Indians have become increasingly skeptical" about the reliability of Russian naval suppliers.

A victory for lobbyists and the Bush administration

Indeed, the U.S.-India nuclear agreement is a big deal, one made possible by the United States' willingness to trample many of its own laws and principles for non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, as well as the efforts of business lobbies in the U.S. and India, which stand to profit immensely.

There were other payoffs as well. On his way back from New York immediately after the congressional vote in favor of the deal, the Indian Prime Minister stopped in Paris to sign a similar deal with France. The deal will allow the French nuclear giant Areva to sell at least two reactors and fuel to India. As the French anti-nuclear group Sortir to Nucleare (End Nuclear Power)aptly observed: "For having helped the U.S. and India get around the rules of non-proliferation, France will be able to sell nuclear reactors to India. These are nauseating deals that endanger the future of the planet," reported AFP.

That the U.S. Senate voted 86-13 in favor of the deal is a testament to the power of such lobbying. By contrast, non-proliferation advocates -- not a homogeneous group by any means -- faced a David vs. Goliath situation. The brief debate before the House vote, however, revealed the concern among many members over the serious negative implications of the deal on the future for non-proliferation and disarmament.

On the day of the vote, Boeing and Raytheon lobbyists were reportedly out in force, talking directly to the few wavering Senators bypassing even their staffers. "It was at a very high level," said one observer. "No one talked to the staffer, they went straight to the Senator and talked about business interests." For his part Vice Presidential nominee Joe Biden had pronounced that he was "going to work like the Devil to make it happen." And he did, by bending all the congressional rules and handing a prize to the most unpopular President in recent history barely a month before the U.S. elections.

Go figure.



See more stories tagged with: israel, india, israel lobby, nuclear deal, non-aligned movement, nonproliferation

Subrata Ghoshroy is a Research Associate in the Science, Technology and Society program at MIT. He directs a project to promote nuclear stability in South Asia.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Prabu »

A very good article. Thanks renukb!
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by NRao »

Indo-US nuclear deal:Bush issues first phase of certifications
United States President George W Bush has formally certified to the Congress that the 123 agreement with India is consistent with the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

Bush also made a commitment that his administration will work with NSG members to restrict enrichment/reprocessing technologies.

There are two phases of certification and the first phase contains the two commitments to be done by the President before exchange of the diplomatic note and entry into force of the Indo-US nuclear agreement.

In a Presidential determination of October 20, Bush has sent a memorandum to his Secretary of State on the certifications pursuant to the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Non Proliferation Enhancement Act.

"Pursuant to section 102(c) and section 204(a) of the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act, I hereby certify the entry into force and implementation of the United States-India Agreement for Cooperation on Peaceful Uses of Nuclear Energy pursuant to its terms is consistent with the obligation of the United States under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce India to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices," Bush has said.

"It is the policy of the US to work with members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, individually and collectively, to agree to further restrict the transfers of equipment and technology related to the enrichment of uranium and reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel," he added.

"You are authorised and directed to publish this determination in the Federal Register," the Presidential Memorandum said.

The president notified his certifications in separate letters to the Speaker of the House, the President of the Senate, the Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"I am pleased to transmit to the Congress the certifications required under section 102(c) and section 204(a) of the 'United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Non-proliferation Enhancement Act,' (Public Law 110-369), and a Memorandum of Justification regarding those
certifications," Bush said.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by renukb »

The article by Subrata Ghoshroy above, re-iterates what I have been saying here consistently....

US interests in INDIA are plainly BUSINESS. Any strategic relation with them in terms of security, is not in India's interest. US will make sure that their security concerns are addressed, but not India's. Just like they will not stop chasing Russia, the same way they will not stop trying to CAP our nuke capabilities and they will not give up contain India policies anytime. This plain truth should be understood by all Indian strategicians.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

renukb, that's nothing new really. The question is whether India can get what it wants while defending itself against these moves by "friendly" adversaries/competitors.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Johann »

Gerard wrote:
The weird thing about the Uk tests is how many of them are low yield guessing them to be on the primary side.
It appears the UK used their own primary but kept the US designed secondary for their versions of the air dropped and Chevaline Polaris SLBM warheads.
With the move to Trident, they used the US primary but modified it.

One capability the UK military wants to keep is a low yield tactical option (no boost, partial boost etc). They seem quite satisfied with 100 kt yield for strategic weapons.
The UK eliminated the RAF's tactical nuclear delivery capability in the late 1990s, so SLBM's have to offer the yield and targeting options that the Tornado with the WE177 offered earlier.

The current UK Trident warhead was tested with the secondary twice by the UK because although the US and UK have shared data and codes since 1958, they wanted to retain the capability to design and produce their own warheads.

One of the biggest reasons the UK has conducted so few tests is that for all the data-sharing the UK has a very different nuclear doctrine from the US. It has no need for the range of weapon designs needed for a nuclear battlefield, for the option of offensive counter-force strike, etc. It needed a design that met the Moscow Criterion in the Cold War, and that post Cold-War, what met the requirements for classic deterrence through unacceptable damage.

Interestingly the UK's post-1998 total dependence on their Trident warhead for their entire nuclear deterrent, strategic and 'sub-strategic' has meant that they are even more invested in the AWE's equivalent of the stockpile stewardship programme than the Americans.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Katare »

Philip wrote:"Mortgaged" indeed.Read (in the naval thread) how we are rushing to join NATO's navies and "kick (pirate) ass" in Somalia along with Uncle Sam.India has through this insidious deal,as said before "self-castrated" itself and like obedient bullocks been "yoked" to US interests until some future strong leader tears the toliet paper of the deal to shreds or flushes it down the tube. A nuclear nation wedded to a bullock cart foreign policy!
If they don't do patrolling they are cowards not standing up to protect Indian interests, if they do than thy are fighting for America’s interests!!?!! Get over your hatred against your own govt and nation. These posts, calling a hard faught treaty toilet paper, are nothing but ramblings of a lost man aimed at flam-baiting others.

The deal is path breaking and liberating in so many ways for so many Indians and Indian entities. The cost is justifiable for the benefits it could bring to our nation's prosperity, energy security and international influence.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by amit »

Katare wrote:If they don't do patrolling they are cowards not standing up to protect Indian interests, if they do than thy are fighting for America’s interests!!?!! Get over your hatred against your own govt and nation. These posts, calling a hard faught treaty toilet paper, are nothing but ramblings of a lost man aimed at flam-baiting others.

The deal is path breaking and liberating in so many ways for so many Indians and Indian entities. The cost is justifiable for the benefits it could bring to our nation's prosperity, energy security and international influence.
Actually Katare, there's not much you can argue against folks who are convinced that the Indian government is full of traitors. That our officials are only too willing to sell the country to the highest bidder.

That our scientists, who made the three stage process a possibility over more than a decade are getting ready to shut it down etc.

A rational discussion of the possible demerits or pitfalls (and I think there are potential pitfalls) of this deal has been turned by some posters into slugfest of pet hatreds. I think it's pointless to try to counter these rants.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by enqyoob »

A sight that will soon become common on Bharat Railways
Nuclear materials secretly transported
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Enough processed uranium to make six nuclear weapons was secretly transported thousands of miles by truck, rail and ship on a monthlong trip from a research reactor in Budapest, Hungary, to a facility in Russia so it could be more closely protected against theft, U.S. officials revealed Wednesday.

The shipment, conducted under tight secrecy and security, included a three-week trip by cargo ship through the Mediterranean, up the English Channel and the North Sea to Russia's Arctic seaport of Murmansk, the only port Russia allows for handling nuclear material.

The 13 radiation-proof casks, each weighing 17,000 pounds, arrived by rail at the secure nuclear material facility at Mayak in Siberia on Wednesday, carrying 341 pounds of weapons-usable uranium, said Kenneth Baker, a National Nuclear Security Administration official who oversaw the complex project.

It is the largest recovery to date of highly enriched uranium provided either by the former Soviet Union or the United States under a program, begun in the 1950s, aimed at spreading the peaceful use of nuclear energy. The two countries have been working to return the spent fuel from reactors around the world because at many of the facilities, including the one in Budapest, security is lax, raising the possibility of the material being stolen by terrorists.

"It was a big shipment, the biggest one we've ever done," Baker said in an interview with The Associated Press hours after he received word that the shipment had arrived at its final destination in Russia. "It was basically enough to make six nuclear weapons."

Under the U.S.-Russian program, the NNSA, which is part of the Energy Department, has completed 15 recoveries of U.S.-origin highly enriched uranium from research reactors in more than a dozen countries since 2005. The agency also was involved in three earlier shipments of Russian-origin highly enriched uranium that were removed from the Czech Republic, Latvia and Bulgaria and returned to Russia.

But the project targeting the 341 pounds of highly radioactive used fuel from the Budapest research reactor was particularly complex and challenging, said Baker, the NNSA's assistant deputy administrator for defense nuclear nonproliferation.

It began at 3 a.m. in Budapest in late September and ended early Wednesday, Washington time, at the nuclear facility at Mayak in Russian Siberia. In between the shipment moved without notice aboard truck and rail to the port of Koper in Slovenia and then by special cargo ship through the ocean shipping lanes that encircle Europe, always staying in international waters at least 12 miles from shore, according to Baker.

The unusual roundabout route was needed because "we couldn't ship it through Ukraine" even though that would have been a more direct route to Russia, Baker said.

So in the early hours in late September, the 13 casks were secretly loaded onto trucks at the Budapest facility and taken to the city's train station, where it was transported onto a special train -- one cask per car -- for an eight-hour trip to the port of Koper in Slovenia on the Adriatic Sea.

The shipments then moved through the Mediterranean, through the Strait of Gibraltar, up the Atlantic and into the English Channel, the North and Norwegian seas and then on to Murmansk by Saturday. From there the shipment was loaded on a train for the long trip to Siberia.

"It was the most complicated trip we've ever taken by far," said Baker, who oversaw the loading and early part of the shipment but did not accompany the shipment after it went to sea, instead returning to Washington.

Early Wednesday, he received notice that the shipment had arrived at Mayak, where security is far tighter than in Budapest.

In Budapest "they had a fence and a guard," said Baker, although some security improvements have been made with U.S. help over the past year. Still, Baker added, "you don't want to leave it there."

The Hungarian reactor now is being converted to use low-enriched uranium that can't be used in a weapon and won't be a potential terrorist target.

So far, including the shipment from Budapest, 1,685 pounds of Russian-origin uranium has been retrieved from 11 countries. But there are still a significant number of reactors that have either U.S. or Russian highly enriched uranium, including some with security far less than what is desirable, according to nuclear nonproliferation activists.


Less Luggage, More Comfort. Make Travel a (GLOWING) Pleasure Onlee!

Why use 17 ton canister to transport 1kg U235? We can use pucca Hindalium Pressure Cooker, weighs only 50 grams.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by renukb »

Rye wrote:renukb, that's nothing new really. The question is whether India can get what it wants while defending itself against these moves by "friendly" adversaries/competitors.
We must remember that ever since our independence, US has been pressurising India to give in access to lucrative Indian markets, but off late we are giving in and giving US the access to our local markets. That's where the thin line of balancing act lies....

Not to give too many military contracts to USA, but try to get all the dual use tech where possible. Engage US where civilian deals and dual use tech can be obtained. If we Give in to US pressure to buy large quantity of mil h/w, US will be hitting two birds in one shot. US can not only effectively contain India in the future and also block Russian defense industry from growing further along with hitting Russian economy in a big way. Both are not in India's interests. We need to balance it out. We must understand that even with the Russian mil h/w, India has never lost any wars that we have fought, until today. And our nooks should give us enough confidence to deal with USA.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by amit »

renukb wrote:We must remember that ever since our independence, US has been pressurising India to give in access to lucrative Indian markets, but off late we are giving in and giving US the access to our local markets. That's where the thin line of balancing act lies....
Boss have you noticed the amount of access India has to US markets? The entire IT industry is dependent on the US, even as it tries to diversify. You gotta understand access is a two-way street. US goods in India does not necessarily mean doom and gloom. Access also brings in technology, collaboration as well as general prosperity.

As an example just have a look at the telecom industry in India. AirTel is more than 30 per cent owned by Singapore Telecommunications. Vodafone is as multinational as they come. In the software space, i-Flex, India's most successful shrinkwrap software maker is owned by US company Oracle.

Has all this been detrimental to India?

The balancing act lies in getting equal access for Indian companies into global markets and that can only happen when the Indian companies grow up in a competitive landscape in India. If we close up, we end up with companies like Hindustan Motors, who used to use discarded Ganesh Dalada tins to make the body of the Ambassador cars. It's also useful to remember that in 1948 two car projects came up in the then third world. One was Hindustan Motors and the other was Toyota. Look at what competition did.
Not to give too many military contracts to USA, but try to get all the dual use tech where possible. Engage US where civilian deals and dual use tech can be obtained.
I think dual use is the name of the game not only for the US but for every country who wishes to sell India military hardware.
We must understand that even with the Russian mil h/w, India has never lost any wars that we have fought, until today. And our nooks should give us enough confidence to deal with USA.
Russian hasn't been acting as a very reliable partner of late has it?

The point is we'll be screwed by any country if we are naive. No country interacts with another country out of the goodness of their hearts. Even aid is tied to the money coming back to that country in the form of contracts. Just check the Japanese development assistance. All contracts have to be awarded to Japanese companies if they are present in that space.

Ultimately it boils down to whether you want to view the glass as half empty or half full, I guess.

JMT
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by renukb »

Amit,

I understand your concerns (easy ones), but if you want to continue this discussions, take your previous post on to Indo-US thraed, so that I can answer you.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Dmurphy »

Philip
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Philip »

"None so blind as those that cannot see".Katare & Co.,if you cannot read between the lines of the deal,then agree to disagree gracefully.I've no problem with your ranting and raving and have never complained! Jokes apart,no disrespect,in my opinion and that of many others,we have mortgaged ourselves to the US and our role in future will be a petty version of Britain,"who lost an empire and has yet to find its role".The Indian Empire of the 21st century,after the sacrifices of the freedom struggle,have invited the robber barons back,to operate as they did during the days of John Co. Enough ink has been written on what the deal does not give India,earlier promised ,from Dr.P.K.Iyengar and other patriots.Is our second class membership of the nuclear club worth it? The continuation of "Nuclear Apartheid" is what this deal represents and tired old men like MMS,steepped in the history of colonial rule ,cannot envision an India that puts its own interests first before all.Just look at the pathetic knee-jerk reaction of MMS & Co.to the pro-LTTE Tamilnadu bufoons,who are bordering on the edge of treason.

Apart from the defanging of nuclear India,what is surreptitiously being planned by the good spin-doctor,is to mesh India's defence forces with that of US adventurism.Do you want Indian forces to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq?MMS's visit to Japan was part of the bargain,while Japan still snubs us over nuclear cooperation! Why are we still behaving like colonial servants from the PM downwards? Have we lost our self respect?

As for India sending naval forces to Somalia.In other threads I've maintained that our forces if sent should be aprt of an international naval force,that has UN approval,just as we send our soldiers as UN peacekeepers to Lebanon,etc.They cannot be part of a controversial US led coalition,where the US commander is in charge overall.This is the aim of the US to draw India,the key nation in the IOR into its private "pirate" navy equivalent to Iraq's "contractors".The USN talks of an international naval force of "1000 ships",which will not be under any UN mandate but under Uncle Sam! This has to be resisted at all costs and any one willing to do so will be as I've said,"Mortgaging" the nation.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by abhischekcc »

Hi Sanku,

We need to make a timeline of how Singh/GOI made and broke promises. We also need to illustrate how this helps US and US alone.

Contact me at my new email bushlovesosama atzerate googlemail dawt com.

We need to put this up to show how this govt has betrayed India. This is Panipat 4.

We need to do this soon.


(BTW, I am now in the land of milk, Modi and Nano) :D
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Sanku »

abhischekcc wrote: We need to do this soon.
Check mail
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

AFAICT, Indian ships are not operating on NATO command, unlike the claims made in this thread. Where's the news item supporting that notion?
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Katare »

Philip wrote:"None so blind as those that cannot see".Katare & Co.,if you cannot read between the lines of the deal,then agree to disagree gracefully.I've no problem with your ranting and raving and have never complained! Jokes apart,no disrespect,in my opinion and that of many others,we have mortgaged ourselves to the US and our role in future will be a petty version of Britain,"who lost an empire and has yet to find its role".The Indian Empire of the 21st century,after the sacrifices of the freedom struggle,have invited the robber barons back,to operate as they did during the days of John Co. Enough ink has been written on what the deal does not give India,earlier promised ,from Dr.P.K.Iyengar and other patriots.Is our second class membership of the nuclear club worth it? The continuation of "Nuclear Apartheid" is what this deal represents and tired old men like MMS,steepped in the history of colonial rule ,cannot envision an India that puts its own interests first before all.Just look at the pathetic knee-jerk reaction of MMS & Co.to the pro-LTTE Tamilnadu bufoons,who are bordering on the edge of treason.

Apart from the defanging of nuclear India,what is surreptitiously being planned by the good spin-doctor,is to mesh India's defence forces with that of US adventurism.Do you want Indian forces to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq?MMS's visit to Japan was part of the bargain,while Japan still snubs us over nuclear cooperation! Why are we still behaving like colonial servants from the PM downwards? Have we lost our self respect?

As for India sending naval forces to Somalia.In other threads I've maintained that our forces if sent should be aprt of an international naval force,that has UN approval,just as we send our soldiers as UN peacekeepers to Lebanon,etc.They cannot be part of a controversial US led coalition,where the US commander is in charge overall.This is the aim of the US to draw India,the key nation in the IOR into its private "pirate" navy equivalent to Iraq's "contractors".The USN talks of an international naval force of "1000 ships",which will not be under any UN mandate but under Uncle Sam! This has to be resisted at all costs and any one willing to do so will be as I've said,"Mortgaging" the nation.
The language and tone that you have been using consistently is anything but graceful but you consistently see disrespect and expect grace from others? Your posts are tirade and political rhetoric with no reasoning or data to support your POV - "mortgaged", "British empire", "defanged" "second class" are all unsupported claims by you in your posts.

In each post you bring out dozens of unrelated issues from Lebanon, Pirates, LTTE, British Raj, Colonial era to WW2 without any cohesion or connection, based simply on rhetoric and attack on Indian establishment. We have separate threads for discussing these issues or you also have an option to write a SRR article to correlate these issues as you see them. If you do that it would be more readable and constructive than just randomly writing whatever comes to your mind in one post in the thread of your choice.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by ramana »

Katare, he sees a connection that is why he is posting. You always have the option to ignore him. Why you want to deny his voice?
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Katare »

I do not deny him his right to express his opinion but I'll oppose his views, choices of words and tone within BRF's rules of engagement. I do not think Philip deserver’s to be ignored.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by svinayak »

I agree with Philip's views
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Rye »

There are claims being thrown out that India is getting to be part of a US-lead NATO -- the news reports still indicate that the Indian Navy is under Indian command -- so what are all these accusations of selling out all about? Still no response to various posters here doing the sellout dance, no response to the challenge that there are no reports that India has sold out in the Navy --- where is the proof for that? The regular CT numbnuts are a lost cause, but if people are going to scream "sellout, sellout", then the burder of proof needs to be higher than what's being presented here. Maybe we can post some articles by Seema Mustafa and Praful Bidwai and analyze them -- the conclusions are likely to be the ones everyone wants to jump to out here.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Gerard »

Dmurphy wrote:What do we make of this?
Radioactive Indian items found in Sweden: nuclear agency
[/url]
The scrap iron used to make these parts probably included a radiotherapy machine with its Co 60 source intact.
This has occurred in a few countries.
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Re: India nuclear news and discussion - 6 sep 2008

Post by Prem »

Acharya wrote:I agree with Philip's views
What if the price paid to India is the head of Pakisatan ?
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