Telangana Monitor

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a_kumar
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by a_kumar »

RamaY wrote:http://www.andhrajyothy.com/latestmains ... an/16new59

Political violence a must to achieve Telangana: KCR

KCR comments today that "Political Violence" a must to achieve Telangana state. Eventhough he defined "political violence" as the T-JAC's demand for MLA/MPs resignations by 1/28, it would be interesting to see how T-JAC would respond towards MLA/MLC/MPs who would not go as per that demand.

If recent events involving TDP MLA Nagam, and INC MLA Danam Nagender are any indication of T-JAC mindset, one can understand the real meaning and motivation behind KCR's statement.
I am thinking that giving TRS enough rope is maybe a good thing, although at a very heavy price.

At some point, even the Telangana folks will probably be disgusted with TRS/KRS ideology, and see for themselves what the supposed future leadership is all about. How will a leadership that is chasing away prospective investors (Andhra or non-Andhra) likely to attract future investors. What will they show for themselves on brochures, "We successfully chased away the investors, but don't worry we mean no harm to you!!!"?

If "so called Andhras" (who are Indians and also Telugu) face such a assault from TRS, then what chances do MNCs headquartered in far off shores have if TRS decides to focus their energies on them? What stops some 2-bit politician trying to replicate the same against North Indians tomorrow or evil American companies? How is that good for Telangana within or outside AP? What happens to the jobs these guys brought? Didn't Telangana folks benefit from it?

Unfortunately, by the time the mangoman realizes his business/work is being hit, it may be too late. Investor confidence is not a switch that goes ON and OFF on KCR's whims. It takes painstaking and patient effort.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

^^^

So, what T-vadi's need is Telangana without Hyderabad, Rangareddy, and Medak districts? Because these districts are already invaded and destroyed by Samaikya-Andhra people?

A corollary to that would be that the migration of Andhra people brought development to Telangana regions?

:((
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

a-kumar garu,

If I laugh at the fire in my neighbors’ house, it will not be long enough that I will have fire in my house.

Our friends south to us are not understanding that simple fact. If AP politicians are as wealthy, powerful, and colonialist as the T-vadis and their supporters project, AP settlers can cause equal damage to TN and KTAKA too.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

RamaY wrote: There are 9 districts in Telangana region
Adilabad
Nizamabad
Karimnagar
Medak - Developed as per your comment.
Warangal
Rangareddy - Developed as per your comment
MahbubNagar
Nalgonda
Khammam
Please do not take this as a infringement in the debate you both are having. Stan garu has beatifully put all my earlier points in one single post. RamaY garu, I will greatly appreciate if you can counter him...so, please proceed.

Here is a request to consider while you are responding.

we know Stan garu is looking at this purely from third party perspective and may not have right perspective on some of the details. We ought to correct those observations as we respond to the larger question.

As an example, Stan may have mentioned Medak as "developed" but we know that district with Mahabubnagar is one of the least developed (literacy, urban/rural, institutions) - well inspite of that great politician on wheels, speaking for INC at center.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

RamaY wrote: Our friends south to us are not understanding that simple fact. If AP politicians are as wealthy, powerful, and colonialist as the T-vadis and their supporters project, AP settlers can cause equal damage to TN and KTAKA too.
arre bhai, there are forces that are inimical to Indian interests and there are legitimate aspirations. You cant mix and match both of them based on your whims and fancies. Is the southern part of TN in desperate need of getting to see the 20th century, let alone 21st? Yes. Do I want to drag this region to the future than let those idiots run around with veecharuvaal, kathi, kabadaa, etc and kill and maim people in the name of casteist bullshit? You bet. Does it make economic sense? Surely. Strategic sense? Most likely, but there are certain forces one has to keep a keen look on (LTTE-lites, Madhani-lites, etc.). It is not a question of fire in your house, and I am clapping my hands in glee. If you believe that, so be it, I cant change you nor am I attempting to. But dont bring in khalistani or jinnah mindset to describe your fellow-people cos it is not only odious, but also sets the stage for a firm downslide into mud-slinging that is certainly no fun for both of you concerned parties, let alone India in some vague context.

PS: My context of looking at Medak as "developed" or at least getting to be developed is the stuff I hear from the folks who are nurturing the IIT Medak business. At least some investment has been made to develop an ecosystem of educational excellence. Surely, we cannot have 1000 IITs in each state, but I am looking for something tangible on the ground that reflects good engg colleges/good medical colleges/some institutions of repute within a localized context. I can show you a few examples in the south TN side despite 1008 other aberrations on the ground. I am seeing it from a vague angle, I assure you, think of it as a vague low-pass filter from a biased perspective of higher ed.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Some folks raised concerns about what will happen to the properties owned by Coastal Andhra after Telangana split. Nonsensical insinuations were made if Telangana will impose 370 or like protective amendments.

Just as we have seen folks from Andhra doing nice(?) in Bangalore or may be even in Chennai, they can continue to do well in Hyd ofcourse. Further, just as they have grown in AP, some folks from Telangana will also grow. In due time the gap will be normalized. So, while your straw man arguments are absurd in the sense that Telangana (if it happens) won't put roadblocks, it is more realistic to assume that locals (may be politicians) may get a better opportunity to grow.

Just as anyone can invest anywhere so long local and national laws are followed, there is no reason to insinuate that investors will be driven out of Telangana.

The same argument applies on political front...the argument that Telangana politicians may or may not have performed in unified AP need not apply to Telangana. They will have much better focus and resources available to address their problems (minus the gang up, minus backyard bombs of Rayalaseema). Telangana politicians will be as much driven to develop their area as the coastal Andhra politicians. No more no less.

The most important point we always keep forgetting is that that to this day I have not seen or heard ONE politician from Telangana making a case for United AP. All politicians of all parties are vociferously asking for Telangana. We are not even seeing any large employee base (state govt, central govt, banking, non-profit) based inside Telangana making any voices in favor of United. I can even say, if you talk to teachers, state govt employees, central govt employees, farmers, banking employees etc...that they will stand by the Telangana demand ( for the real or perceived injustices). It is evident they don't approve of KCR (having won only 10 seats) but that does not mean they don’t support the demand. No wonder politicians of all flavor are taking the stand they are taking.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Satya_anveshi wrote:The most important point we always keep forgetting is that that to this day I have not seen or heard ONE politician from Telangana making a case for United AP. All politicians of all parties are vociferously asking for Telangana.
This also addresses RayC sir's question about Chiranjeevi. In my earlier posts about him, I opined that he could being NTR like charisma developed because of his on-stage performances translate into good vision and actions on the political scene. But having gone thru some U-Tube videos on how both YSR and Naidu ripped him apart, there is not much hope. Further, within Telangana the man did take a good United AP distinguishing from other divisive politicians...but cost him further in Telangana where they expelled the party from the region and anointed different leader for Telangana Praja Rajyam party.

One can only guess what will happen to that party in the coming elections when Telanganas may not allow him to come and give lectures (or might see low attendance). That party is essentially go screwed itself.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

RamaY wrote:^^^
So, what T-vadi's need is Telangana without Hyderabad, Rangareddy, and Medak districts? Because these districts are already invaded and destroyed by Samaikya-Andhra people?
The point is that you cannot claim the development of the region that has always been the crowning jewel.
Case can be made that Hyd and surrounding areas would have grown with or without Coastal Andhra's. It has already been the fifth largest city in the nation with host of central institutions present there. Comparatively Chennai, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Pune have grown. So, big deal...what we care for is the homogeneous development and the evidence does not support that.

Just as Coastal Andhra's took developed and built up their empires, Telanganas can also take the further developed areas and build upon that.

Like I said before the central logic from both perspective (and more so from Coastal Andhras) is that "what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable"
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ShyamSP »

Satya_anveshi wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:If people get rid of comparing Telengana (sometimes without Hyderbad) to 4 K-G districts, things look much better.

Please check education stats to assess objectively. This link has stats district-wise
http://ssa.ap.nic.in/edustat.html
Aaahh..data (for a change).

I looked at the Higher Secondary Schools by region/district from the link you provided and here are the findings...you are most welcome to verify and provide your take

This data is from 2007-2008 :shock:

Total Schools (23 districts) - 99
Coastal Andhra (9 districts) :37
Rayalaseema (4 districts): 11
Telangana (10 districts including Hyd): 51

Looking at this some folks think everything is hunky-dory and some may even thing Telangana is more developed than CA.
You can't expect an area X like African country in 1950 to suddenly become like Switzerland in 2010. When I say area X progressed well, you can't say you don't see it like Switzerland.

It is better to take out already developed areas/districts (like Hyderabad, Krishna, two Godavaris) in 1950 and compare the rest of the districts for progress.

Hopefully, government publishes comparative studies so people can take objective look at the issue.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

An interim measure will be a development package from Center for the under-developed dts in the three regions under Art 377 section D.

Violence wont be acceptable to the people.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Sarma »

Something I realized in the last day or two, which others may already have realized. The advantage of playing the victim card, however genuine or otherwise the grievances may be, is that the "victim" can completely absolve oneself of any responsibility for the existing situation, and then pass on the blame completely to the other party. I am not saying that the other party does not share the blame, but a victim can claim the right to look for the blame only without and not within.

S_A garu, when you include Guntur, Visakhapatnam and Vijaywada (all three put together still smaller than Hyderabad) in the coastal Andhra statistics, then everything looks to be in favour of CA districts. I just think if you want to exclude the "crown jewel of Telangana" (in your own words) from Telangana statistics, please exclude the three urban regions from CA statistics as well. I am not saying you should do that for Rayalaseema districts, because they are obviously underdeveloped.

Tomorrow, when Hyd passes into Telangana, there literally will be no higher educational institution, no CSIR research lab, no software industry or pharma industry left in CA and Rayalaseema. Is that fair to these districts?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

ShyamSP wrote: You can't expect an area X like African country in 1950 to suddenly become like Switzerland in 2010. When I say area X progressed well, you can't say you don't see it like Switzerland.
This just assumes that Coastal Andhra was all hunky-dory in 1950. It was not. In fact, the difference between every part of India at that stage was epsilon (or microscopic) at the best. The brits had stolen away so much wealth from India that trying to make a case that X was more prosperous than Y and so X is now far far better than Y is just not right. In fact, the reason cited for why Telugu-speaking regions wanted a separate path from the Tamil-speaking regions was the "relative" prosperity of the Tamil-speaking regions, which in itself was a myth in absolute terms. In relative terms, a vast majority of the people were dirt-poor but just clinging onto hope on both sides, with the select few who cornered much of the glory being majority on the Tam side than the Telugu side, and that too it had a significant contribution from the Tam brahmin-side. The fundamental aspirations were primarily for a democratization of the "elite"-castes. This is exactly what we are seeing on the ground in Telengana, more people are asking where is my prosperity when they see some n people prospering relatively better than them.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Sarma wrote:S_A garu, when you include Guntur, Visakhapatnam and Vijaywada (all three put together still smaller than Hyderabad) in the coastal Andhra statistics, then everything looks to be in favour of CA districts. I just think if you want to exclude the "crown jewel of Telangana" (in your own words) from Telangana statistics, please exclude the three urban regions from CA statistics as well. I am not saying you should do that for Rayalaseema districts, because they are obviously underdeveloped.
The data is for all to see, ShyamSP posted the link. Even after doing what you mention, the conclusion does not change it is just not that glaring.
CA (7 districts; minus Vizag, Guntur, Krishna/Vijaywada): 16
RS (4 districts): 11
TS (8 districts; minus Hyd/rangareddy): 13
5 districts removed: 59
Tomorrow, when Hyd passes into Telangana, there literally will be no higher educational institution, no CSIR research lab, no software industry or pharma industry left in CA and Rayalaseema. Is that fair to these districts?
Well...the notion of fairness sometimes could be funny. No one gives a hoot about fairness when Telanganas are at the receiving end. Having said that, one can trust high performing "model" politicians from coastal andhra/rayalaseema to develop all those said areas so we can at least be rest assured on that.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Sarma »

OK, I agree 8 Telangana districts are backward. Now, who do you blame for their backwardness? Do the Telanganaites want to blame every ill in these 8 districts on the "Andhravallu", i.e. resort to the Andhravallu dochukunnaru slogan?

S_A garu, no need to get touchy. I am all for the development of every T-district.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

I don't call Rayalaseema underdeveloped by any stretch relative to Telangana. But their urban/rural stat is out of whack for sure..district headquarters are one thing but the towns and villages are whole different deal.
As long as the political culture of that region does not change, it is a difficult to deal.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Sarma wrote:OK, I agree 8 Telangana districts are backward. Now, who do you blame for their backwardness? Do the Telanganaites want to blame every ill in these 8 districts on the "Andhravallu", i.e. resort to the Andhravallu dochukunnaru slogan?
It is the system of governance/accountability, education/awareness, focus/resources - this can be enabled by making smaller, more governable entities where politicians are more conscious of local issues and local solutions. Media of this age can bring visibility to the issues as well as underperformance of politicians. Policitians will have fewer excuses and will be forced to show results. I believe this can happen. I also hope this will bring developement to the backward regions of Non-Telangana areas of AP.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

[*]This site looks promising but the data is available for subscribers only. I will be pleased to find this type of data being available even if it is for sale.
[*]The other govt site APonline: mentioned earlier if it works will be nice too.

for future refences and for folks if they find anything interesting to bolster their arguments.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Satya_anveshi wrote:
RamaY wrote:^^^
So, what T-vadi's need is Telangana without Hyderabad, Rangareddy, and Medak districts? Because these districts are already invaded and destroyed by Samaikya-Andhra people?
The point is that you cannot claim the development of the region that has always been the crowning jewel.
Case can be made that Hyd and surrounding areas would have grown with or without Coastal Andhra's. It has already been the fifth largest city in the nation with host of central institutions present there. Comparatively Chennai, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Pune have grown. So, big deal...what we care for is the homogeneous development and the evidence does not support that.

Just as Coastal Andhra's took developed and built up their empires, Telanganas can also take the further developed areas and build upon that.

Like I said before the central logic from both perspective (and more so from Coastal Andhras) is that "what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable"
If we agree with this logic, then how can one use "Andhra Exploitation" as the basis for separate Telangana state?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Stan_Savljevic wrote: This just assumes that Coastal Andhra was all hunky-dory in 1950. It was not. In fact, the difference between every part of India at that stage was epsilon (or microscopic) at the best. The brits had stolen away so much wealth from India that trying to make a case that X was more prosperous than Y and so X is now far far better than Y is just not right.
...
If this is the case, how did certain areas, such as some cities, grew better than others? because scarce national resources have been diverted to develop "selected" cities, and build "selected" dams. That way AP people have indirect stake in BhakraNangal project and vice versa. Can I claim Delhi Durbar exploited AP resources, as AP was considered as the food bowl of India?

This is the thought process that made me say, certain regions will remain backward till the national GDP reaches certain thresholds. For example, irrespective of our GDP, Delhi would go, and the next important investment would be in/around Mumbai, and so on.

By extending this logic, the United Andhra Pradesh state invested all their resources in developing Hyderabad in the past 15-20 years. Without these investment, Hyderabad would have been a 4th rate city, given its communal dimensions. Asking for a separate Telangana at this state is actually Telangana people robbing AP peoples' hard work and investments.

I found this from http://irrigation.cgg.gov.in/html/demoFuncs.html

Project***** Date Completed ***Coverage in Acres *** Notes
Godavari Delta System* Pre-Ind* 10,13,000*
Kaddam*2004*68,500*Adilabad
KC Canal*1960*2,65,628*100% Rayala Seema
Nagarjuna Sagar*1967*21,00,000*Khammam = 276,633
Nizam Sagar*Pre-Ind*275,000*100% Telangana
Pennar Delta system*Pre-Ind*2,50,000*Rayala seema
Prakasham Barrage*1958*7,50,000*
RDS Link Canal*?*30,000*
Rajoli Banda*1958*87,500*
SriRamsagar**9,69,000*Telangana???
SriSailam**1,97,000*Rayala seema
Tungabhadra Project**113,000*Rayala seema
Vamshadhara**148,000*North Andhra
Yeleru**67,000*North Andhra
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by negi »

Things have started getting ugly

Man hangs self over delay in T formation
Man hangs self over delay in T formation
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

Nizamabad: A 45-year-old man, said to be a Telangana supporter, allegedly killed himself in the district on Saturday, upset over the delay in the creation of a separate state.
The police identified the victim as Chintha Narender. He was found hanging from a tree on the outskirts of Basheerabad village in Kammarpalli mandal on Saturday morning. A tailor by profession, Narender had the words ‘Jai Telangana’ written on one of his hands, a cap he was wearing and his banian.

The police said Narender was an active participant in the ongoing movement.After reading a newspaper, the victim went to the outskirts of the village and hung himself, they said and added that they were alerted about the presence of the body by villagers.

Narender leaves behind his wife and two children. Expressing concern over the alleged suicide of Narender, village sarpanch Ashok demanded that the Centre immediately start the process for separate Telangana.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Virupaksha »

[quote="negi"][/quote]

Reading the above, we can definitely say it was one of YSR fans heart attacks :roll:
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

RamaY wrote: ...
...
...

I found this from http://irrigation.cgg.gov.in/html/demoFuncs.html

Project***** Date Completed ***Coverage in Acres *** Notes
...
...
Nizam Sagar*Pre-Ind*275,000*100% Telangana
...
...
We are always discussing population migration from non-T areas to T-areas in search of jobs and real estate and for looting etc. If someone is interested try to see the composition of farmers in Nizam Sagar irrigation area. This area has a good output of agricultural produce. As per my knowledge (collected from friends) that a lot of migratory farmers from Coastal Andhra bought the agricultural lands and converted the barren lands to cultivatable lands before and after Nizam sagar was constructed. The migrant farmers are not the rich ones that one always refers or these migrations are not too recent.

I would like to know if anyone has more information on this aspect regarding Nizamabad district. If this is true then I see more problems and why Telangana farmers have to sell the lands to someone else even when there are opportunities?

Just also compare a Punjabi farmer coming all the way to Canada and US just to do agriculture. Andhra farmers also belong to similar tribe. I know couple of friends from Krishna district who bought farmlands in California to grow mexican mangoes. One of them was a Oracle DOO sitting next to me about five years ago. I was amazed when in those every desi is either after stocks or homes here these fellows are determined to invest in agriculture.

By just talking again and again in cylces about Hyderabad and influx of people and investors, comparing few schools here and there and also some minuscule allocations for money ( In my honest opinion all these are silly cheap comparisions) we may be missing bigger malise in deeper parts of Telangana districts. We need real knowledged folks who has rural knowledge of those ares ( do not include folks from Warangal, Khamam folks here). Statistics, google links are only data points but will not give the real perspective and that is my strong opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coming back to why Telangana - I do not belive that economic development or some Andhra real-estate folks or some other "takleefs" that are being presented are the real reasons for "Telangana sentiment". I expected a lot from the T-members here but unfortunately other than Satya Anveshi there are no serious contributions. He is all alone and will be tired in just collecting the data.

In my opinion the following are the ones behind "T-Sentiment":

1) Maoists - Let us not discuss this as it will take the topic away from discussion. They have a strategy that is succeeding in smaller states as compared to larger states like Maha, Orissa and AP.
2) Politicians - Mainly they are jobless because of the onslaught from Rayalaseema ones. Also lack money power and they are under the coercive influence of maoists. They are not completely independent of Maoists and they have fear that they or their kin will be targeted by maoists if they act too independently.
3) Some sections for Middle class Telangana folks - In my opinion this is important section for the T-Sentiment to be alive.

The first two can be killed but the third one is the real reason for this to be alive even after 60 years of independence. I really think there is feeling that they still do not own their desitiny. It is really difficult to explain this to others here that I observed from my Telangana relatives.

I will give it a shot:

After India's independence there is a feeling that we achieved something for us in most of the regions of India. It is psychological and phisical too. Take coastal-APites - the prosperity is measurable and they have definitely pride in it. Take TN folks, they were able to force no-ultra-forceful imposition of Hindi. They have pride in that. We can go on and on about certain achievements at a local/regional level in the entire India. However, there are several regions in NE and also pockets of India where there is no such psychological-factor based achievements.

During Nizam times the folks faced more brutality as compared to those under British. Middle class Hindus were even discriminated in getting pottable water at the "nallah" ( meaning Nal in Hindi and water tap in English) as they were last in the preferences. Second class and third class citizens is what they all felt. When Nizam was overthrown by whatever the help it was, the middle classes really wanted to see "we want to build our destiny even if it is slow and difficult". They wanted a sense of ownership but what happened was some development by very fast-tracking-menacingly-speedy-Coastal-AP folks. In the process, even if some good/bad happened the feeling that they are not masters of their destiny is the real reason behind this "T-sentiment".

In my honest opinion, this is the only genuine section of T that has a decent reason behind T-sentiment. The other vocal ones especially the Maoist ones and the politicos are all either coerced or vested interests.

In any solution, whether to keep AP united or split unless this factor is conquered there is no way that this T-sentiment will go away that easily. You can only supress it temporarily but it will be alive for someone to exploit it.

Among all the members from T, prad was able to put the sentiment in the States News thread a longtime ago in two lines. I did not understand what the hell is this "ownership" and I have to go all the way of discussing this with my relatives from Telangana which was convincing to me. I also admit as I am not one from Telangana I will never be able to understand this though I tried my best to understand from the otherside. As a jingoist in me I will be too fast to call this as "dhimmitude", "incompetetive" etc which is also natural becasue of the brought up and other influencing factors.

BTW I will no way support the state-split and still want to find a solution that will be anything short of split. Let us see how things will turn out.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by jaladipc »

negi wrote:Things have started getting ugly

<span>[url=<a linkindex="83" href="http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/ ... =HTML&GZ=T]Man" class="smarterwiki-linkify">http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/ ... =HTML&GZ=T]Man</a> hangs self over delay in T formation[/url]</span>
Man hangs self over delay in T formation
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

Nizamabad: A 45-year-old man, said to be a Telangana supporter, allegedly killed himself in the district on Saturday, upset over the delay in the creation of a separate state.
The police identified the victim as Chintha Narender. He was found hanging from a tree on the outskirts of Basheerabad village in Kammarpalli mandal on Saturday morning. A tailor by profession, Narender had the words ‘Jai Telangana’ written on one of his hands, a cap he was wearing and his banian.

The police said Narender was an active participant in the ongoing movement.After reading a newspaper, the victim went to the outskirts of the village and hung himself, they said and added that they were alerted about the presence of the body by villagers.

Narender leaves behind his wife and two children. Expressing concern over the alleged suicide of Narender, village sarpanch Ashok demanded that the Centre immediately start the process for separate Telangana.
this is one such ugly thing.It could be a suicide for a true cause of could be a makeup (just like people died on hearing the death news of YSR) Whatever the reason maybe,Can`t the GOI simply give the damn Telangana for some reason to stop all this hogwash and bullshit thats been going on and off for decades?

Every time a person like KSR comes in and creates a mess like we are in today for a cause( no one knows the truth behind) and kicks the progress of state some 10 years back while bringing a bad opinion to the whole state.

If congress is reluctant in the first place,then that SOB YSR shouldnt have supported the cause just for the sake of a damn CM chair.And now every MF wants a CM chair.{For gods sake why cant GOI split AP into 23 states and provide 23 CM kurchis as a foresightedness to prevent such things from happening in future by another jagan ? :P }
Geeeeez I came from coasta,I would appreciate GOI providing me a kurchi considering my constituency as a big one. :D

Its all screwed up guys, when people are looking for development and wanted to eradicate the god damn poverty ,these penny leaders pop up from nowhere ruining the whole shit thats been piled up for years for doing good.

Okay, here is the deal and my 2 cents : Either split AP-and make Hyderabad as a second National Capital while bringing up 2 new capitals for these 2 new states. OR dissolve the god damn assembly and gov and every thing in AP and apply presidential rule in the state for ever. Make the whole state a cantonment area. Edit that 60 year old constitution for the million and 1th time for just gods sake.

While the whole world is looking at us laughing their arse off,our penny politicians are fighting for that kurchi which is only a matter of 5 years.

JAI HIND.
Dasari
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Dasari »

Satya_anveshi wrote: The most important point we always keep forgetting is that that to this day I have not seen or heard ONE politician from Telangana making a case for United AP. All politicians of all parties are vociferously asking for Telangana. We are not even seeing any large employee base (state govt, central govt, banking, non-profit) based inside Telangana making any voices in favor of United. I can even say, if you talk to teachers, state govt employees, central govt employees, farmers, banking employees etc...that they will stand by the Telangana demand ( for the real or perceived injustices). It is evident they don't approve of KCR (having won only 10 seats) but that does not mean they don’t support the demand. No wonder politicians of all flavor are taking the stand they are taking.

It doesn't mean anything. There is mass hysteria now, particularly after Dec 9 announcement that surprised even hard core separatists. Seeing that separate T is inevitable, even leaders who were silent on this issue 4 months ago are talking as if they have been championing this cause for a long time. If you truly want to asses how much people cared about this issue, you need to look at 2009 election results, where people cared about food, jobs, health etc.

Currently, afraid of violence from separatists, people are intimidated to say anything against Separate T. Otherwise how can you explain that there are 30 lakh settlers in Hyderabad, who are constant targets of KCR in his hate speeches, yet nobody say anything against separate T which gives a perception like you stated above. (BTW, I don't call them settlers, they are citizens of Hyderabad like any other residents).

Even if we decide to separate, you cannot ignore the rights and concerns of other 4.5 crore people. Demand for separate state may be the right of Telangana people, but how its divided is decided by the people of Andhra Pradesh. Unless T-vadis recognize it, separate T state cannot be done.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Muppalla wrote:This area has a good output of agricultural produce. As per my knowledge (collected from friends) that a lot of migratory farmers from Coastal Andhra bought the agricultural lands and converted the barren lands to cultivatable lands before and after Nizam sagar was constructed. The migrant farmers are not the rich ones that one always refers or these migrations are not too recent.

I would like to know if anyone has more information on this aspect regarding Nizamabad district. If this is true then I see more problems and why Telangana farmers have to sell the lands to someone else even when there are opportunities?
Not an expert here and would be delighted if there are posters here who can speak on this. Here is my take on this:

It has been close to 100 years now since the dam was constructed. It is in Nizamabad district.
Yes, this is one of the fertile sections of AP- the sector includes Banswada, Bichkunda, Varni, Bodhan mandals of Nizamabad and it is not long before when Nizamsagar canal used to supply water to most of these areas. Now only rarely, often during peak rains, one gets to see the water flowing thru this canal due to silt forming and maintanance issues in the damn. This area grows Paddy majorly but at one time used to grow Sugarcane, which needs the most amount of water. Bodhan still has the biggest sugar factory in all of Asia - Nizam Sugar Factory which now is bought by Gokaraju/Rangaraju(?). BTW: farmers in this area just as their Costa brothers reap 2 to 21/2 crops an year. There is also the Rice Research Institute at Rudrur (outskirts of Bodhan Mandal) that helps farmers in maximizing the productivity, supplies fertilizers, seeds etc at times.

If your specific question is migration to this area is not current but have been going on for a while - you could be right but it still is current phenomenon. Further, if you travel thru these areas, you will see these areas are not barren by any stretch. You can look it up on google maps/India maps /revenue figures from state govt stats.

Not far from the above sector, this village in Nizamabad claimed(around the year 2000) to be the richest and model village in India. I am unable to locate the India Today cover story on this village (will try to find). Here is another report from rediff in Telugu: http://www.rediff.com/telugu/2000/jun/19anka.htm

This village now has healthy competition from another village nearby called "Andhra Nagar :) ." These folks too reap stunning crops.
ramana
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Jaladipc, Please edit your post and get rid of off color language.

Thanks, ramana
Muppalla
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

Satya_anveshi wrote: ...
...
If your specific question is migration to this area is not current but have been going on for a while - you could be right but it still is current phenomenon. Further, if you travel thru these areas, you will see these areas are not barren by any stretch. You can look it up on google maps/India maps /revenue figures from state govt stats.
...
...
This village now has healthy competition from another village nearby called "Andhra Nagar :) ." These folks too reap stunning crops.
Just take my "barren land" comment as from lower productivity from a particular period to a higher productivity currently. I am interested in migration pattern of the farmers. We are concentrating too much on the urban migration in this thread which is very natural in India for any given city.

My deepest interest is the competetive village called "Andhra Nagar" . How may such Andhra Nagars are there is another point of interest.

I may be wrong and hope someone finds the acurate info. However, I believe most of these migrations are during the past 50 years. I do not either want to attribute the increase in productivity to some of the migrants and it could be due to modernization and increase in farming knowledge. Under what circumstances that local farmers sold the land to migrant farmers if the land was/is fertile? I am fairly sure that there is no coercion to sell the land in Nizamabad to coastal migrants from the politicians. The "caste" that these migrants are from is not having any political clout/wealth in that timeline. In my perception there is something wrong with the farming communities in Telangana that I am unable to define. No one from anywhere in the country are able to buy any land in costal areas. Another minor point I find is that even in the coastal areas inspite of all that we see now, the wealth was not manufactured before the green revolution. Why don't we see similar wealth growth even in fertile pockets such as Khamam and Nizamabad in Telangana? What is that really ailing for the farmers to become capitalists?

If my point above is right then the seperate Telangana state is only to genuinely protect the average farmer/person from the agressive capitalistic industrialist/capitalistic farmer. How will you achieve in this era without Article 370 type goodies? Unless the mindset is changed and a complete draining-out of socialist/maoist ideals from this region, I am very pessimistic that life will have any change even after split. Offcourse the psychological-ownership-factor will be there.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Btw: nizam sugar factory deal also consisted of about 4200 acres of agricultural land in the above sector I referenced. There were aleegations that it was sold for a song.
Rest, google is the king.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Negi-ji,
Nizamabad: A 45-year-old man, said to be a Telangana supporter, allegedly killed himself in the district on Saturday, upset over the delay in the creation of a separate state.
with all respect to the departed soul, how could one incident make things ugly in this issue? Isn't this sensationalism on BRF?

On one side we see T-vadis writing Telangana on vehical number plates, institutional sign boards etc, on the other hand we see veiled threats against politicians who wouldn't go as per T-JAC directives. One can definitely understand the emotions and ends dominating the means in achieving one's goals, but don't you think it is a little too much for you to post that news item as if it is a game changer?

JMT
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by anuj »

Sujai, the middle class red neck, uncivilised andhra hater, crypto-tamilian, crypto relative of KCR, crypto member of TRS internet team, crypto naxal militant, crypto founder of telangana navnirman sena has a new message for everyone.

Telangana 37: Let’s Andhraize Telangana
When Europeans occupied continents of South America, Asia, Africa as their colonies, they thought they were carrying the ‘white man’s burden’. They thought they had a divine mandate as a White Christian to civilize the barbarians and the natives. The white man justified the colonialism as just and fair means to educate and civilize the natives of these colonies.

In 1956, when Andhras sought to merge with Telangana to form Andhra Pradesh, they were carrying the same legacy of Europeans that ruled them. They were now carrying ‘Andhra man’s burden’. They sought to Andhraize Telanganas to purify Telangana Telugu from the onslaught and influence of Urdu. They wanted to set an example and teach Telanganas what pure and chaste Telugu is all about. They introduced their version of Telugu to us in our text books and called our Telugu Vikruti, an abomination, an anomaly, that needs to be rectified and corrected.

Here is how some Andhras have written about Telangana Telugu on this blog.
  • Since my Telugu is not b@stardized with Urdu words. It has much more pure Dravidian pronunciation of certain syllables and hence makes the language sound sweet and mellifluous. At least teach your kids good Telugu and not the gutter Telangana slang.
  • …you have to accept that Telangana Telugu is a corrupted version of Telugu, corrupted not by you or your ancestors, but by the great Nizam.
  • As long as Telangana Telugu is corrupted with Urdu words, Telangana Telugu will remain as a symbol of Telugu people oppression under Nizam.
  • If you want to fight, fight with the history and remove the Urdu words from Telangana Telugu to make it pure and free from Nizam oppression' reminder.
  • Andhra Telugu is pure Telugu whether u accept or not. Even though they were with Madras they were not affected by Tamilians.
  • Assalu ee telangana culture ante yemiti?? Nizam gaadi paalanalo, Urdhu chetha telugu ni rape chesthe vacchindhe telangana baaasha, anthena?? [Actually what is Telangana Culture? Under Nizam’s rule, when Telugu was raped by Urdu what we got is Telangana language, is it not?]
  • Andhra janaalaki intha kaalam, telangana baasha gurinchi antha theliyadhu, intha kaalam adhi kudaa teluge anukunnaam [Till today, Andhra people didn’t know about Telangana language. Andhras thought it was also Telugu]
Why do you want to be with us?

You don’t respect us, you don’t respect our language. You have an extremely low opinion of Telangana people and their language. And yet, you fight for a ‘united state’ forcing and coercing us into submission so that we remain with you against our will. Why do you want to be with us with you when you have absolutely no understanding of Telangana or its people, when you think that our culture and language is a b@stardized, raped, and corrupted version of Telugu while you maintain that you have a pure culture?

Andhraize

Your words to describe your efforts to civilize us reek of Aryan supremacy theories propounded in Europe during early 1900s and under Nazism. When you colonized Telangana did you really think that you could Andhraize Telangana? Make us civilized and less impure?

You did all you could for nearly 53 years to make us feel ashamed of our language, and yet we defied all your attempts. We refused to purify our language according to your tastes. We refused to concede our language is a shame.

Instead, we took pride in our history and culture, whether it included oppression or not, whether we were raped or not, whether it is corrupted or not. At the end of the day, this is what we speak- this is the language we feel comfortable with. This is the language we express ourselves in. This is the language that brought us revolutionary songs to inspire us the take on the rule of Nizam then and the rule of Andhras now. This is the language of our plight, our sorrows, our experiences, our suppression, and also our pride.

Why do you even like Hyderabad?

Sometimes I don’t even understand why you like Hyderabad. It has its own cosmopolitan culture into which you don’t fit into at all. You are fairly homogenous group and have absolutely no cosmopolitan character. All cosmopolitan cities inherit influences from various regions, various religions, and various languages, whereas you try to keep your language and culture pure protecting it from all outside influences. How does that make it cosmopolitan?

In Hyderabad, we speak differently. We use the words like ‘Jaldi raa’ easily mixing Urdu and Telugu whenever we feel like. We take pride in such mixing. We are not ashamed of it. You find yourself strangers in this city and in this region when you try stick to your purist theories.

You have never attempted to understand us, our culture and our history. Yes, we have a checkered past with Nizam and the legacy of Muslim rule, but those are our problems and we have our own solutions. You have absolutely no idea how to address them and when you try to give solutions, you actually make a joke of yourself. You have many misconceptions about us and our history. We don’t want to overthrow the legacy of Nizam or the influence of Urdu on our language. We are quite happy with our language the way it is.

We play Holi and fly kites, we have our distinct ways of celebrating our festivals which are quite secular in nature. We have peerilu where both Hindus and Muslims participate in a joint celebration. The reason why Hyderabad has become famous and developed is mostly because of its openness in embracing all cultures and languages. It has embraced you as well without putting up a fight. However, your attempts to make it purely Telugu city are now rejected. Your attempts to monopolize it for only Telugu people are now rejected.

Your attempts to Andhraize Hyderabad or Telangana are rebuffed. Your sermons fall on deaf ears. It’s high time you understand that.

Nazi Theories

Your attempts to keep your culture and language pure are synonymous with Nazi ideologies. Telangana people are quite comfortable with mixing. Telangana people are a mixed culture, we have influences from many regions, those of Kannada and Maratha, and many of them have cross-border relations with those regions. We have Gujaratis, Tamils, Punjabis, Marathas, Kannadas, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians amidst us. Each of them has influenced us which we have accepted quite openly.

Two different versions of our state

Once again Andhras and Telangana differ on what Andhra Pradesh means to us. For Andhras, it is all about keeping Telugu pure and chaste, keep it Hindu, away from other languages and religions, and keep it a protected region away from other influences. For Telanganas, it is all about mixing, evolving, and embracing new cultures and new influences without having to worry about impurities. We are proud of our biryani and our sakinaalu without having to think whether it is authentic Telugu or Hindu. We will continue to embrace others as long as they don’t impose themselves onto us.

It’s clear that we have completely two different views of our state. We don’t want to be pure like you. We believe that languages evolve, that cultures evolve, that they embrace influences without having to resist them. We do not think there is a pure version and impure version for a language. We are not making attempts to enforce our language onto anyone. Instead we are sick and tired of being imposed by Andhras who have colonized us trying to impose their version of purity onto us.

This is high time we rejected this experiment called Andhra Pradesh. We are two different people and have different view on what this Andhra Pradesh meant to us. You can be the torch bearers of pure Telugu. We are open to the influences. This is high time Telangana is its own so that its identity, however impure or corrupt, is given its voice and expression.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Satya_anveshi »

Satya_anveshi wrote:Btw: nizam sugar factory deal also consisted of about 4200 acres of agricultural land in the above sector I referenced. There were aleegations that it was sold for a song.
Rest, google is the king.
Actually this wiki page on Bodhan says that:

During the time of Nizam the Sugar Factory's holdings included over 1,600 square kilometres :eek: of land. So, not sure how much the holding was at the time the state govt divested the factory.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by anuj »

Telangana: Congress MLAs in a dilemma
HYDERABAD: With pressure building from the political Joint Action Committee (JAC) of Telangana that the Congress MLAs should resign and have their resignations accepted by the Speaker by January 28, the MLAs are hoping that the MPs hailing from Telangana region, who will soon be leaving for Delhi, will persuade the party leadership to come out with a clear statement on the likely date by which separate State could be carved out.
They believe that the time is running out and if the Centre chooses to keep mum, it would lead to suspicion among people.
“The party leadership at Delhi is not realising that the movement is not in the hands of the politicians anymore. Ignoring people’s demand by relying on intelligence reports which indicate that the movement had fizzled out, might boomerang on the party,’’an MP pointed out.

If the MLAs go by what the party tells them and not resign, they would have to pay a heavy price.

“Look at what has happened to Telangana stalwarts like former Speaker KR Suresh Reddy in the elections or to Danam Nagender in Nalgonda yesterday.
Resignation only way out to realise Telangana: KCR

Constitutional crisis only way, says KCR

T-JAC to intensify stir after Jan 28
JAC convener Prof M Kodandaram said that after January 28 JAC would intensify the agitation to achieve Telangana. Creating Constitutional crisis and launching non-cooperation movement were among the methods to exert pressure on the Centre, he said.
University exams start from tomorrow, i.e., 19th jan and i guess they end on 28th jan.
ramana
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Please read this amazing article on the December 9th decision in Telugu,

http://www.andhraprabha.in/headlines/article-68968

Basically, says that the GoI has realized that it has jumped the gun based on motivated intelligence reports.
Muppalla
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

^^^^^
Reports from Andhra Prabha's english cousin New Indian Express.

Why was Narayanan ousted?

NEW DELHI: The abrupt ouster of M K Narayanan from the powerful post of National Security Adviser has, it seems, more to it than just the sharp differences which emerged during his day-to-day functioning with Union Home Minister P Chidambaram.


There are three reasons to which sources attribute Narayan’s being shunted out to West Bengal as Governor.

The first is that he goofed up on the Telangana issue, misreading the spread of the agitation and drawing Chidambaram to commit a blunder by announcing initiation of the process for the formation of Telangana. The sources said Narayanan relied a bit too much on the judgement of a senior IB man who was sent from New Delhi to AP to gauge the situation, as analysis later revealed that the agitation could have been dealt with at the state level despite TRS chief K Chandrasekhara Rao’s fast unto death.

The second reason has to do with the approach taken with Pakistan after 26/11. While Narayanan was adamant about not having a dialogue with Pakistan unless there was substantial progress on the 26/11 probe, the political view within the government, especially because of US pressure, was to engage Pakistan and get on with the peace process.

The differences became more obvious when the government moved on with its agenda and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh signed the joint statement at Sharm el-Sheikh.

Finally, Narayanan was dead against Chidambaram’s idea of an over-reaching National Counter Terrorism Centre that would bring the National Technical Research Organisation, Joint Intelligence Committee, Aviation Research Centre and RAW under its command. The move would have clipped Narayanan’s wings as he had a major say in the functioning of these agencies.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by joshvajohn »

HYDERABAD: Tension prevailed in the Osmania University campus on Tuesday as students of all varsities in the Telangana region boycotted examinations after one of them committed suicide over the delay in carving out a separate state from Andhra Pradesh.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 476003.cms
Yagnasri
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

We are now going once again in the same lines of 1969. Students are being pushed forward by useless politicos. Now some of them don't want to write exams. They may force others also not to write.

I do not think any serious student is there in this country and this age who is willing lose one whole year. KCR's kids got educated in US and Harish Rao's son is studing Narayana (Hated costal invader) but other poor students have to lose their year.

Pity.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by a_kumar »

ramana wrote:Please read this amazing article on the December 9th decision in Telugu,

http://www.andhraprabha.in/headlines/article-68968

Basically, says that the GoI has realized that it has jumped the gun based on motivated intelligence reports.
For the benefit of others, heres a rough translation...
The Congress high command concludes that, it is the intelligence agencies that misled the center on deteriorating health of fasting KCR and consequent agitations of students.

Along with some regional politicians from Telangana, the central and state intelligence agencies submitted incorrect reports. According to an AICC office bearer, it is because of these incorrect reports, that Chidambaram had to announce the commencement of Telangana formation on midnight of Dec 9th. In addition to the reports, seeming consensus in the state CM's all-party meet on Telangana, Center responded positively to the demand for statehood without consulting the representatives from other parts of Andhra Pradesh.

But, having understood the reality based on repercussions within in the state, center has realized the hastiness in its decision. Not only that, certain senior officers who mislead the Home Minister with incorrect reports paid a heavy price.
{It seems like MKN is the most visible of the price payers}

Urgent messages reached Home Ministry reporting that health of fasting KCR has deteriorated, that KCR might succumb on the 9th itself, and that consequently massive violence in student rally the next day was highly likely. He explained that hence, even though its not modus opperandi of the UPA government, it had to hastily take such an important decision without consulting anybody.
{INC is on a massive drive to convince everybody that Dec9th was just coincidence. I initially thought, Chidu was doing the bidding for the Rajmata/Yuvraj, which was plausible. But MKN seems to have played a key role in molding intelligence that Chidu got to see. What is his interest in this? Also, considering MKN trying to please Rajmata/Yuvraj is like fish drinking water, a picture emerges showing it was MKN that actually made the Birthday gift come through}

The source declined to comment on who is responsible for the reports that led to Chidambaram's statement, which resulted in center loosing face and decline of a rapidly advancing state under a peaceful climate, into a chaotic state. Source also declined to comment on any actions taken on those responsible for the reports.

It was not just the intelligence agencies, it is no secret that two senior politicians from Telangana scared the highcommand on the state of KCR's health.
{This has come up before, Who was using who?}

Information from intelligence officials that KCR, who is on fast-onto-death in NIIMS Hyderabad, is unlikely to live until Dec 10th and that his death would surely create havoc during the students' associations call for surround-hyderabad(?) on Dec 10th. It was conveyed that there is strong involvement of Maoists in Telangana movement, that Maoists have surrounded the fasting KCR in hospital under the garb of leaders of associations. He explained that the information suggested a possibility that Maoists may conspire to kill KCR and make him martyr of the Telangana movement, compelling Home Ministry to go ahead with the announcement without another thought.
{Its obvious how the announcement after the midnight (say 1 hour after midnight) would have devastated the state :roll: :roll: . Mission to prove Dec 9th was coincidence is taking epic proportions now}

But, with the situation in state changing the next day, with Coastal and Rayalaseema people raising for United Andhra, and with the major political parties changing stance from the previous all-party meet, where they offered support for an assembly resolution, Congress high command had to arrive at a notion that there is no choice but to put Telangana issue on the backburner by announcing need for extensive discussions with representatives from all regions, said the person performing key tasks in AICC. He made it clear that without consensus, there will be absolutely no splitting of the state and high-command will never encourage unilateral actions against wishes of any region.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Sarma »

The two senior T-Congress members being referred to in the above article are K. Keshava Rao and V. Hanumanta Rao, both Rajya Sabha members and both, I believe, have the dubious distinction of not winning a popular election to even a panchayati board in the last two decades. When YSR was alive, he could expose their worthlessness successfully to Madamji everytime they made some noise. But, now that he is gone, their voice is the only one, until the rest of AP has also spoken. In a recent interview, Sarve Satyanarayana (Malkajgiri MP) openly revealed that the Telangana MPs have told Madam ji that TRS will merge into Congress after T-state is formed. Harish Rao, seated right next to Satyanarayana, did not even condemn that statement. Soniaji was taken for a huge ride and I think she is realizing it.
ramana
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

That is where political awareness and sagacity comes into picture.

PC was willing to believe the info 'fed' to him to achieve what the INC High Command desired namely Telangana Statehood on Sonia Gandhi's birthday which in effect would create atleast a State level celebration day for her. In the aftermath the very same IB reports used to make the statement are now being condemned to protect his H&D. This is called politicising intelligence.

A good minister never blames his officials. It will lead to demoralizing the troops and future selective reporting.

Why wasn't the AP Chief Minister not consulted about the decision to bifurcate the state?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ShyamSP »

The place where the body was found is remote place in OU campus that has a lot of past incidents. How come some random student not from OU dies in a remote spot in OU with burnt body and in some bushes.

-Exams are now postponed because of this. Government/University was saying this time was last chance for students to write exams without losing year so and started exams. This caused students unavailable for agitations that can be interpreted as T-movement fizzling out in students.

- MLAs are not resigning and are leaving JAC. Students anger directed towards them can help force their resignations.

- Some random suicides (fake or real or murder-suicide) that JAC convenor was announcing didn't have much impact. Suicide by student can add good fuel to dying fire.

- Death black-mail. Man (with fake fasting) was about to die so they announced T-formation. Now students are dying so announce T again.

joshvajohn wrote:
HYDERABAD: Tension prevailed in the Osmania University campus on Tuesday as students of all varsities in the Telangana region boycotted examinations after one of them committed suicide over the delay in carving out a separate state from Andhra Pradesh.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 476003.cms
http://greatandhra.com/ganews/viewnews. ... 15&scat=16
Was it suicide or murder?
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