Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

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Suppiah
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Suppiah »

anupmisra wrote:
Lisa wrote:Perfect! Pakistan 'to boycott Afghan Bonn talks' after Nato raid. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15937270
Oh, the pakis will attend. They will be there. This is plain and simple a positioning strategy on their part. For public consumption. Without them, the conference is meaningless and the double-dealing SOBs know it.
Unkil has to drop hint that India would take TSP's place at the table..then there would be rallies in Karachi and Quetta calling for Pakistan to send its entire cabinet :rotfl: problem solved.

Incidentally our Stalinist Beijing puppet rapist goons and their fake-peacenik yellow cabal that have been urging MMS to 'continue talks because there is no alternative' even if TSPA sends its piglet army to wipe out half of Mumbai in terror attacks, are now going quiet? Would they urge Pakistan not to forget talks just because of one single attack?

Or is it the formula they would start advocating now because Beijing's tall friend has gone down that path?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by parsuram »

Philip:

Re:
"If you truly value democracy and liberty then you will.......et cetera et cetera.."


-by Paki ahmed ali khalid

That very first sentence excludes the paki state from being covered by this entire essay, as the paki state was specifically founded by those who had no relationship to valuing, truly or falsely, stuff like democracy, liberty, and so on. All this paki demonstrates is an ability to regurgitate stuff that has rubbed off on him once he got beyon his native environment. Being of the RAPE class of a paki blood sucker, that was probably not too hard for him to do. Writing of the RAPE, by the RAPE, and for the RAPE will endure among the paki.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by johneeG »

SSridhar wrote: johneeG, for very long, I had held this belief that there is a very small coterie within PA (possibly including some retired Generals) who run the AQAM show. They completely identify with the overall AQAM objective, though there might be minor quibbles here and there. They have no qualms about the loss of PA officers and lower ranks, if only their objectives are served in the process. They have similarly no qualms about civilian deaths. The killed men, women and children would anyway go to jannat for having been a(n) (unwitting) part of the larger Islamist cause against the kufr. So, they used to enact a big drama of sending an army unit to take on Nek Mohammed or Baitullah Mehsud et al knowing well that the units would be decimated or captured or would be beaten back. All these things happened. The coterie used all these to its advantage as propaganda material by putting on a show of fighting global terror, making sacrifices, getting peanuts in return etc. The US and allied generosity poured money and material into the coffers of the PA. quite early on, the coterie allowed MQM to grab power in NWFP during the most crucial phase of GWoT and help AQAM escape into Pakistan. They had already ensured that top AQAM leaders escape from Kunduz through a generous airlift. Subsequently, the coterie made 'peace deals' at frequent intervals with the Taliban and allowed them to regroup, gain more space and generally entrench themselves comfortably within Pakistan. Their operations against the Taliban mostly were farcical with 'sufficient notice' given to them and then flattening the empty mud houses and showing them as war-trophy to the rest of the world. The Taliban, for their part, eliminated all inconvenient jirga leaders and anti-Taliban lashkar. Thus, the ground underneath has been prepared extensively and meticulously. The loose overburden can collapse at a favourable time as a result of this thoroughly weakened ground below.

With the situation in Afghanistan rising to a crescendo, the coterie has to ensure that it gains the advantage. The quick demand, even before the bodies could be buried, of 'greater say' in Afghan affairs is an indicator.

My point therefore is the Pakistani Generals, at least some of them, are in a position to stop all this but they initially co-opted the jihadists and then became part of them that they fancy themselves as being on the winning side today.
Sridhar sir,
thanks for a very informative post. I agree with your belief. There seem to be people(retired and serving) within PA who are playing all these games. Its like an oligarchy. It is clear that they sympathise with islamists.

I did not know/remember the specific details that you have given. Thanks for that. But broadly speaking, it was obvious that the various jihadi groups have been allowed to rise and flourish as part of a delibrate plan.

The paki powers have no respect for the lower ranks or the masses. These people are considered cannon fodder. But its their resources, their wish. Even if they were considerate towards their people, they still are villains as far as Indians are concerned.

Anyway, the various jihadi groups have established themselves by taking out all opposition. They have become very powerful.

I agree with all that. But my point was, can this policy be rolled back, even if those paki generals want to? To me, it seems like that they cant. The jihadis are well entrenched militarily and socially. The lower and middle ranks of PA sympathise with their jihadi brethren. So, even if the circumstances force them, they cannot roll back now. Correct me, if I am wrong...
Last edited by johneeG on 29 Nov 2011 18:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by johneeG »

SSridhar wrote:
johneeG wrote:It is not a decent thing to do, yet it is par for the course as far as realpolitik is concerned. What are the soldiers for, if not to further the interests of the nation? Soldiers are expected to make sacrifices...

The real failure of a pakistan is that its soldiers have selfishly usurped the resources at the cost of nation and people.
Of course, soldiers are expected to make sacrifices but the state must be deserving of their supreme sacrifice. What did Pakistan think by refusing to accept the bodies ? That the PA's involvement would not be exposed ? Even by the time the bodies were rejected, India had shown evidence of PA's involvement, diaries, letters, telephone transcripts, PoWs and the whole works. Jaswant Singh had played the conversation between Musharraf and his deputy for the whole world to listen to. Then, the NLI mutineed in Gilgit and that was splashed all over as Nawaz had to rush there and pacify them. Finally, Nawaz Sharif and a whole lot of Pakistanis admitted to PA's operation. PA did not learn from a similar fiasco in 1965 when it thought it could send its regular soldiers as shepherds and expected India not to find that out. PA did not even learn from its 1947 exposure of the NWFP tribals being deployed in J&K. It is absolutely impossible to hide pregnancy and such Pakistani deceptions. Period.
Agreed in toto.
SSridhar wrote: Having said that, if the dead Pakistanis, their families & the rest of the nation think that it was well worth it, who are we to dispute that ? That defines Pakistan.
I am not opposed to Indians raising this issue to expose and humiliate pak.

I wanted to make a point that even if pakis treated their soldiers and masses perfectly, that still does not reduce paki villainy towards India.

Also, part of black ops, I suppose, is that even the dead bodies of the soldiers are not acknowledged
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by anupmisra »

This takes the art of "its not us, its you" to the next level. From the nutty nation built on conspiracy theories, here's a new one:

NATO attack was launched to rescue TTP militants
Islamabad—Military observers now believe that the NATO aircraft which attacked and killed 24 Pakistani soldiers were in fact sent to rescue the TTP terrorists who had been encircled by Pakistani forces near Silalah check posts.
Didn't we hear ISPR claim that their TSPA mards were attacked in a "treachously and cowardly" manner by NATO while they slept peacefully in their gunny bags?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by harbans »

Point to ponder: With Paki's being adamant on Shamsi and talking going to UN on Dronacharya, think what will happen when the next Dronacharya takes a few Ghazi's to their 72...expect every stage from now to exponentially escalate to full fledged conflagration..? But knowing the PA downhill ski'ing ability that is hard to predict..but i do see here a pressure that's down-top..very grass root level. So expect the next dronacharya to get people into the streets. No way Paki's can stop real Islam aka Taliban now coming in. Even 'secular' Paki phorums are talking open support of the Talibunnies. Moderate Abdul's who never demanded bodies of Abduls in Kargil are now pro Taliban on a few dozen abduls getting their 72..Beer and Popcorn time. But I hope Indian defenses are really up this time..

PS:
1. What if a Ghazi Quadri Commander so angry at the US..mates a Ghazi named something with something chagai and sends it across the Western border...all bets are off.

2. India must be really high alert. We have no clue how the paki elite may try to divert attention from an obvious confrontation with NATO/ West..
Last edited by harbans on 29 Nov 2011 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

My money for the most likely scenario is on the following: Afghans in a joint op with Isaf just pushed over the Durand line, came under TFTA fire given to cover the Talibs' retreat, maybe even trapped by it, and called in air support as part of SOP; TFTAs escalated and ended up taking the hit.

No deep planning, no conspiracy, just a field decision to not let afghan-isaf troops be killed. This is more or less the afghan narrative and it is the most credible. TFTA counter of "where are the other side's casualties" is weak since Isaf doctrine calls for overwhelming force and they probably have better field tactics to avoid taking casualties or are not releasing that info.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 29 Nov 2011 20:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by johneeG »

KLNMurthy wrote:My money for the most likely scenario is on the following: Afghans in a joint op with Isaf just pushed over the Durand line, came under TFTA fire given to cover the Talibs' retreat, maybe even trapped by it, and called in air support as part of SOP; TFTAs escalated and ended up taking the hit.
I have similar suspicions. I think the pakis started it and amirkhans ended it.

The claim of Pakis sleeping is just pakiness.

The plans, I think, were already there. They implemented at the first opportunity.

It also shows that amirkhan has allowed his troops to go ahead with such 'aggression'.

It seems as if its an unofficial war given the attitude on both sides.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by harbans »

^ Only a fool will believe the Paki after Kargil. Paki soldiers were surely all sleeping in their Barracks when brave freedom fighters were pinning NH 1A and taking on IA special operations para regiments up 18000 feet high on the Mountain peaks of Drass and Kargil..no Paki's were sleeping in their barracks. Doing nothing..so innocent. Didn't they plead to NATO, West for support for freedom fighters then?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by SSridhar »

The presence of SSG officers indicates a much deeper plan than just providing firing cover to the Taliban. They were up to a bigger mischief and they were pre-empted. That is my theory.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by abhijitm »

NATO probe report will be out on 23rd Dec. Apaches generally shoot video of assault. I hope they will publish it for us to see how pakis were roasted.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by ramana »

TSP is like the cat that closes its eyes and thinks no one saw it drinking the milk even when its whiskers are wet with the white milk.

Real life Jerry.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by johneeG »

SSridhar wrote:The presence of SSG officers indicates a much deeper plan than just providing firing cover to the Taliban. They were up to a bigger mischief and they were pre-empted. That is my theory.
I dont know whether taliban or afghans were involved or not. But my speculation is that pakis started something and amirkhans ended it.

I dont think its pre-emption. The attack seems to have been brutal from the reports. Would it have been so, if it were pre-emption? It seems more like a retaliation...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by johneeG »

ramana wrote:TSP is like the cat that closes its eyes and thinks no one saw it drinking the milk even when its whiskers are wet with the white milk.

Real life Jerry.
This cat is addicted to milk and just cant help it.

Jerry is kind of cute. So, pakis cant be compared to it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Altair »

ramana wrote:TSP is like the cat that closes its eyes and thinks no one saw it drinking the milk even when its whiskers are wet with the white milk.

Real life Jerry.

This cat is addicted to milk and just cant help it.

Jerry is kind of cute. So, pakis cant be compared to it.
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PM:ramana garu cartoon chosi chaala rojulu ayinattundhi :P
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by rajanb »

Email from the AfPak Channel
Pakistan and the United States continue to dispute the events surrounding the bombing, as U.S. and Afghan officials describe a joint commando patrol near the Afghanistan-Pakistan border that came under attack from positions near or even inside the Pakistani army posts, while Pakistan has said the assault continued long after Pakistani forces identified themselves to NATO (Post, NYT, ET, BBC, AP, WSJ). President Barack Obama and other American leaders have called the incident a "tragedy" but refused to apologize (AFP/ET, Tel). The Pentagon said Monday that it would "carry on" in Afghanistan without supplies from Pakistan, which has closed its border to U.S. supplies, and Pakistan reportedly refused a request by the United Arab Emirates to review its decision to evict American personnel from the Shamsi airbase in Balochistan, which the Emirates are believed to control (AFP, ET, Dawn, AFP).
A birdie who stays in Kabul and who was here for a short break, couple of weeks back, told me that the ISAF cross the Durand line at will and are happy to keep quiet about their activities because (in my words) it saves Porkistan's H&D.

So it looks like the terrorists this time may have decided to head towards the Paki posts and the sleeping and TFTA Pakis, even while asleep, fired in support of the terrorists. That is when retribution arrived.

The TFTAs did not realise (they were asleep, remember) that they would be subject to such illuminating and 72 houri style retribution and identified themselves, but to no avail.

Now the Porkis do not want to be associated with the probe, the report to be released as a christmas present to them. Thats because the Porkis have a lot to hide. And this time, The US can tug at their short hairs, for a change. Lets see if they do it. Their past record has been pathetic.

My two bits.
Last edited by rajanb on 29 Nov 2011 20:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by abhijitm »

johneeG wrote: I dont think its pre-emption. The attack seems to have been brutal from the reports. Would it have been so, if it were pre-emption? It seems more like a retaliation...
more than usual number of paki troops along with the presence of seniors should be accounted for. They must be upto something which could have prompted ISAF of pre-emptive strike. I suspect ISAF must be tipped off of presence of some high profile talibs at either one of the posts. They did not take a chance and wiped out both.

The reason ISAF declared it a tragedy could be because talibs must have escaped. And this also gives a reason for not to apologize.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Altair »

Pakis are not saying but a high ranking SSG commando was killed.I am sure of it. If it can be hidden it would appear he was retired but still wearing SSG uniform and He was not supposed to be there and hence his death cannot be acknowledged. It is not uncommon for retired Generals to wear uniforms. I could only track major and captain. My lead hit a dead end. Who can the Godfather be? Is he the actual target of entire Operation?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Charlie »

Kapil komireddi gets stuck into Pakis
Pakistan is indignant about the killing of 25 of its troops in a NATO air raid on Saturday. The circumstances that led to the assault are still unknown, but Washington and Europe have expressed contrition and promised an investigation. Pakistan has every reason to feel angry. But after a suitable period of mourning, shouldn't the United States, in the interests of fairness if nothing else, ask the Pakistani army if it plans ever to apologize for -- or, at bare minimum, acknowledge -- its role in the deaths of hundreds of coalition forces and many more Afghan civilians?

At the start of the 21st century, the United States offered Pakistan a very straightforward ultimatum: Join us in the war against terrorism inaugurated by al Qaeda's attacks on 9/11 -- or find yourself bombed to the Stone Age. In the decade since, Pakistan has arguably been responsible for more American deaths than any other state on earth. Yet Pakistan has not only evaded prosecution for its crimes. In a staggering turn of events, its army has found its program of sponsoring the slaughter of American troops in Afghanistan by the Taliban and al Qaeda amply subsidized by Washington.

One of the most principled voices against the Pakistani army during this time belonged, ironically, to Islamabad's ambassador to Washington. Husain Haqqani was, to repurpose Nirad Chaudhuri's phrase about Pandit Nehru, not only Pakistan's representative to the United States but also the West's ambassador to Pakistan. His resignation, offered and accepted on Tuesday, was ostensibly precipitated by an op-ed last month in the Financial Times by Mansoor Ijaz, an American businessman of Pakistani descent who claimed that an unnamed Pakistani diplomat -- whom he later identified as Haqqani -- had conscripted him in a grand scheme to curb the Pakistani military's power. Together, he alleged, they crafted a memo in which a series of dramatic offers were made to Washington -- among them, the promise to end state patronage of terrorism -- in return for the Obama administration's help in reining in the generals. (Haqqani vigorously denies involvement.)

Inexplicably, Ijaz, the courageous anti-military conspirator, transformed, without a hint of irony, into the army's canary, imperilling Pakistan's besieged civilian government by volunteering transcripts of his alleged exchanges with Haqqani. Pakistan's rightwing media served as his bullhorn, devoting their pages and program to his endless revelations. (Hardly anyone in the West accorded serious attention to Ijaz -- a clownish Croesus addicted to self-elevating fantasies. If only the Clinton administration had given attention to his "deal" with the Sudanese government to extradite Osama bin Laden to the United States, he once bragged, 9/11 would have been averted.)

The author of a devastatingly frank history of Pakistan, Haqqani has the virtue of clarity: He is known to view the army as an impediment to progress in the region. Still, it is stupefying to imagine that a diplomat and scholar of his sophistication would have recruited a pestilent popinjay like Ijaz to deliver a message that he could quite competently have communicated through other channels, or in person. The rapidity with which Ijaz has switched sides, meeting the ISI chief in London last month to handover "evidence" implicating his co-conspirator, strongly suggests that it is Haqqani who is the victim of a conspiracy.

Sherry Rehman, a formidable politician from Sindh, has now replaced Haqqani. But his forced resignation puts an end to the pretence of civilian rule in Pakistan -- and heralds the unapologetically solemn re-takeover of the country by the military-intelligence camorra that spawned the forces of destruction in Afghanistan. So it is astounding that, rather than treating Haqqani's departure as a setback, officials in the Obama administration see it as something of a boon. Haqqani's private criticisms of the Pakistani army led, according to a report in the New York Times, "to a diminishing of his influence in Washington, especially in the White House."

Why would the White House choose to belittle a man championing civilian rule in Pakistan? Isn't that also the objective of the Obama administration? The answer increasingly appears to be no.

Since the 1950s, when Gen. Ayub Khan mounted the first military coup, Pakistan's army has etiolated the country's evolution in every imaginable sense. Rooted in a culture of grievance and malevolence that is the foundational basis of Pakistan, the army has waged wars against India, suffused young minds with a fervor for jihad, sponsored terrorism, spread xenophobia and racism, carried out genocide against millions of its own citizens, stolen and smuggled nuclear secrets, foisted the vile Taliban regime upon the defenseless people of Afghanistan, and assumed complete ownership of Pakistan.

For wars and terrorist violence in South Asia to abate, Pakistan will have to resemble something approaching a normal state. The equation for that is simple: The army must return to the barracks.

Obama had an almost providential opportunity to squeeze the army in the immediate aftermath of bin Laden's discovery in May in the garrison city of Abbottabad. The khakis were at their weakest in four decades. That was the time to bolster civilian rule, to corral the army with fresh ultimatums. Instead, Obama seemed more anxious about pacifying Pakistan for having breached its sovereignty than holding its army to account for harboring bin Laden -- which explains the White House's rush to finesse Amb. Mike Mullen's candid testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee in September.

Then, in a craven abdication of American responsibility to the citizens of Afghanistan, Obama talked about the need for nation-building at home. For a man who attained the presidency by invoking Martin Luther King, Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi, Obama has rarely displayed any compunction in retreating from battle with men who, given the opportunity, would have lynched King and Gandhi -- indeed men who have presided over the slaughter and torture of too many potential Kings and Gandhis of our age. Could there be a more forceful testament to the failure of Obama's foreign policy in South Asia than the sight of terrorist leader Sirajuddin Haqqani operating with impunity in Pakistan six months after bin Laden's killing?

Rehman, the new Pakistani ambassador, is a socially liberal pro-democracy politician. But disturbingly, and unlike her predecessor, she subscribes to the Pakistani army's view of Afghanistan: Any government in Kabul must be pro-Pakistan. This should hardly seem worth worrying about -- except that "pro-Pakistan," in the context of Afghanistan, means anti-India, anti-America, and, more troublingly, anti-Afghan. Bluntly, it means a Pakistani colony of the pre-2001 variety that hosted bin Laden, not a sovereign state with independent policymaking prerogatives. This explains why an overwhelming majority of Afghans, whenever given the chance, express only the deepest contempt for Pakistan.

The Pakistani army has responded to the NATO attack by blocking supply routes to the coalition forces. It has also issued a notice to close down the U.S.-run airbase in Shamsi. The proportional response to Pakistan's denial of its territory to the United States would be to limit Pakistan's role in Afghanistan. It is the United States that has secured Afghanistan; if Pakistan wants a role, it had better pay its dues. Instead, Washington grovels before Islamabad even as American soldiers die at the hands of Pakistan's clients.

Faced with a re-election campaign, Obama is seeking to obtain a cosmetic "end" to the mission in Afghanistan by cutting deals with the Pakistani army and its clients in the Taliban. This will involve a reduced presence of American troops on the ground, a heightened use of targeted drone strikes, and, to keep this arrangement, bribes to the Pakistan army in the form of vaguely conditional aid. Relations between the United States and Pakistan will return to "normal" in short order. A poltroon deal will be struck with the Taliban chieftains. As the fighters currently enjoying Pakistani hospitality in the country's northwest make their way back into Afghanistan, the gains made over the last decade will wither away. Thus will the tremendous sacrifices, of both American troops and Afghan civilians, be honored. For the citizens of Pakistan and Afghanistan, this will signal the start of yet another prolonged period of violence. President Obama will call it victory.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

ramana wrote:TSP is like the cat that closes its eyes and thinks no one saw it drinking the milk even when its whiskers are wet with the white milk.

Real life Jerry.
I prefer the emperor with no clothes analogy since all, except maybe afghans, are going along with the fiction. Maybe for TSP we have to combine the two--a cat that steals milk but gets everyone to pretend it is a fully suited-booted emperor.

But then again, cats can be charming and affectionate animals, so ...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Pranay »

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=742908

The wily coyotes...
NATO forces may have been lured into attacking friendly Pakistani border posts in a calculated maneuver by the Taliban, according to preliminary US military reports on the deadliest friendly fire incident with Pakistan since the war began.

The NATO air strike killed 24 Pakistani soldiers over the weekend in an apparent case of mistaken identity, The Associated Press has learned.

A joint US-Afghan patrol was attacked by the Taliban early Saturday morning, and while pursuing the enemy in the poorly marked border area, seem to have mistaken one of the Pakistan troop outposts for a militant encampment and called in a NATO gunship and attack helicopters to open fire.

US officials say the account suggests the Taliban may have deliberately tried to provoke a cross-border firefight that would set back fragile partnerships between the US and NATO forces and Pakistani soldiers at the ill-defined border.
According to the US military records described to the AP, the joint US and Afghan patrol requested backup after being hit by mortar and small arms fire by Taliban militants.

Officials described the records on condition of anonymity to discuss classified matters.

Before responding, the joint US-Afghan patrol first checked with the Pakistani army, which reported it had no troops in the area, the military account said.

Some two hours later, still hunting the insurgents who had by now apparently fled in the direction of Pakistani border posts, the US commander spotted what he thought was a militant encampment, with heavy weapons mounted on tripods.

Then the joint patrol called for the air strikes at around 2:21 am Pakistani time, not realising the encampment was apparently the Pakistani border post.

Records show the aerial response included Apache attack helicopters and an AC-130 gunship.

US officials are working on the assumption the Taliban chose the location for the first attack, to create just such confusion, and draw US and Pakistani forces into firing on each other, according to US officials briefed on the operation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Rangudu »

Is there a link to any report that says SSG ppl were among those killed in that post?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by pgbhat »

Rangudu wrote:Is there a link to any report that says SSG ppl were among those killed in that post?
None what so ever as per google chacha. I have been looking for it since yesterday. Somebody just made it up looks like.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by shravan »

Pakistan Army rules out joint probe into Nato raid
Director General Military Operations Major General Ashfaq Nadeem has rejected Nato’s offers of carrying out joint investigation into the Nato raid on Pakistan’s military checkposts in Mohmand Agency. During a media briefing on Tuesday, he said that there was no outcome of such joint probe into the past attacks. He reiterated that the Nato deliberately attacked Pakistani checkposts and continued targeting them for hours. “It was an open aggression and unprovoked attack,” he added. The DG MO said it would premature to say anything about motives behind the attack.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

"lured" blah blah is only an interpretation which is flexible unlike facts. Guess the facts are:

--taliban pulled some stunt in afghanistan and ran, chased by afghan-isaf.
--taliban cross Durand into the protection of TSPA chowki which gives covering fire as per SOP
--isaf-afghan crosses Durand in pursuit, maybe instigated by afghan element which doesn't care about Durand and wants to kill pakis.
--TSPA chowki is probably new, catching isaf-afghan by surprise and trapping them. This is as per commonly known TSPA doctrine, to show the "fleeing afghanistan in disgrace" isaf and the "inferior" afghans their aukaat and TSPA strength whenever possible, so the TSPA intent would have been deadly.
--then follows air support and the stamping of stapled visas for jannat.

There were probably isaf-afghan casualties but khan is keeping quiet about it while stalling for time with the inquiry which is basically about spinning the events in the field. They would already have the field report by now.

I think this was not a command decision to launch a sneak attack on innocent TSPA as the absurd TSPians keep shouting. It was more a field event waiting to happen, similar to L'affaire raymond davis. Team Obama could have anticipated and planned the spin in advance but are again caught flat-footed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

Also note jihad apologist and Holbrooke's brain Vali Nasr crying that field commanders are now making US policy. He probably has access to the field report and has been fighting hard to get khan policy to accommodate jihad.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by kmkraoind »

As I had predicted previously.

Its not a hot pursuit - PA and tailbs will be scattered and would have run away.
Its not a mistake of borders - Pursuing NATO forces would have GPS and know that they are beyond Durand line.
Its a not a lure by talibs to make attack on check post - Since heavy gunships have been called, they would have a higher bird (drone or satellite) to know that its a check post with heavy PA presence, yet they ventured in and fired for 2 hours despite PA's SOS.
PA is hiding something - there are no media photo shots after the incident, means something is there that PA cannot explain. Would it had been a clean misunderstood, PA would like to score brownie points taking media to the spot, but they did not. At least there are no CCTV footage leakage, means top-to-down clean up of evidence.
What are senior SSG personnel doing at check post.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by KLNMurthy »

statement by TSPA

Just saw this. If taken at face value, allowing for spin, lends more credence to isaf going after high value target than to my pursuit theory. The spokesman refers to post-may 2 environment as explanation of motive for the "attack." could be a hint about a targeted attack in which TSPA didn't stand down due to post may2 repercusssions on their side.

That leaves the question of why khan didn't have a ready explanation unless it is a drama to save TSPA echandee post may 2.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Lalmohan »

the BBC doc last month mentioned specifically that talibs use PA border posts for ingress and egress cover and staging and unkil monitored these situations carefully. it also mentioned that these posts frequently provided "sophisticated" covering fire for these movements. We've been hearing junior american officers talk about this for over 5 years. we've even seen video of such things on this and other documentaries.

the rules of engagement have been changed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Prem »

abhijitm wrote:imagine the burn if all decide to go ahead without pakis :)
Do Paki know that every participant will get million $ cash as personal expenses?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by archan »

Another normal incident in the land of the pure. Minor dies in mortar attack in Aka Khel
A minor died and four women were seriously wounded when a mortar shell fired from an unknown location fell on Minar Khan’s house in Bara tehsil Aka Khel on Tuesday.
The shell resulted in the death of a 2-year-old girl on the spot and left four women seriously injured.
Locals said the shell came from unknown area and exploded with a loud sound. Village residents came out of houses in fear to find out what happened. Official sources said security forces went to the spot for collecting the evidence and lodged FIR against unknown miscreants.
While you SDREs deal with your pyar-mohabbat issues fighting with punches or maybe knives or small pistols, the TFTA settle matters using no less than mortar fire. Martial race... 8)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Prem »

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 9965&Cat=2
Tribesmen seek permission to avenge killing of soldiers
MIRAMSHAH: The tribesmen in North Waziristan Agency on Monday condemned the Nato attack on security posts and the killing of 26 soldiers in Mohmand Agency and demanded the government and military authorities to allow them to cross the border into Afghanistan to avenge the killing of Pakistani soldiers by the Nato forces.
Addressing a press conference at the Press Club here, prominent clerics and tribal elders said Pakistan’s political and military leadership had kept mum over the killing of hundreds of innocent tribal people, including women and children, in the drone attacks and now they (Nato forces) had started targeting the Pakistani troops deployed on the Afghan border. Maulana Gul Ramazanhead of the North Waziristan Amn Committee, Malik Nasrullah Khan, chief of Waziristan, Hafiz Noorullah Shah, Malik Qadir Khan, Maulana Salimar Gul, Malik Mamoor Khan, Malik Noor Mohammad Khan, Malik Mashal Khan and others said the government, military authorities as well as the media had constantly ignored the losses suffered by the tribal people in the drone attacks. They said the Nato troops had several times crossed the border and came to Pakistani villages near the Afghan border and mercilessly gunned down tribesmen but even then Pakistan did not react.Maulana Gul Ramazan said when Pakistani security forces were unable to protect themselves against the Nato forces, their deployment along the Afghan border was useless.( Pakjabis cant fight war ) He said the tribesmen since Independence had been safeguarding Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan. Malik Nasrullah Khan said it was time for Pakistan to quit this so-called war, which the US had launched in the region.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by RamaY »

Maulana Gul Ramazan said when Pakistani security forces were unable to protect themselves against the Nato forces, their deployment along the Afghan border was useless.( Pakjabis cant fight war ) He said the tribesmen since Independence had been safeguarding Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan.
wow... if Paki Army cannot protect themselves, who will protect Paki Islam?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Rahul M »

A teenager killed Pakistan Army SSG commando Muhammad Arshad, 27, over reasons yet to be determined in the Nawankot Police precincts on Monday.
The deceased was a resident of Chunian district Kasur. Arshad joined the Pakistan Army two years ago and was trained for Special Services Group (SSG). Arshad was performing security duty at the Tarbela Dam. Late on Sunday night, Muhammad Arshad and an unidentified friend, estimated to be 18 years of age, checked into Lahori Hotel room number 6 in the Nawankot Police Station jurisdiction.
Lahore Police sources said the boy was much younger than Arshad. A source said the killer was 18 years old and adept at repairing fridges. Sources said the killer had repaired the hotel fridge late on Sunday night but no one knew anything else about him. The source said the murder could be a result of a sexual assault attempt from the deceased.
:rotfl: straight out of BENIS.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by rajkumar »

RamaY wrote:
wow... if Paki Army cannot protect themselves, who will protect Paki Islam?
The Taliban.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Rishirishi »

There has been talks of letting India send 50 000 solders to man the Afghan-Pak border. Would this be in India's interest?

I understand that the border is about 2000 km. hence 50 000 soldiers means 25 per km.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Pranay »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15949418
US Medal of Honor marine Dakota Meyer sues BAE Systems

A highly decorated US Marine says a manager at defence contractor BAE Systems called him "mentally unstable" and alleged he had a drinking problem.

Sgt Dakota Meyer, 23, is suing BAE for defamation for comments made after he was critical of planned sales of advanced sniper scopes to Pakistan.

Sgt Meyer was awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest US military honour, for saving 36 lives in Afghanistan.


BAE told the Wall Street Journal it "strongly disagreed with his claims".

A spokesman said, though, that the firm wished him "success and good fortune in his endeavours".

Sgt was the first living Marine awarded the Medal of Honor since the Vietnam War.
The supervisor, Bobby McCreight, became hostile towards Sgt Meyer after the former soldier expressed his disapproval of BAE's attempts to sell advanced thermal optic scopes, the filing says.

Sgt Meyer had taken a position with BAE after leaving Ausgar Technologies in March 2011, where he was training soldiers on optical equipment.

"This is where I could see me still 'doing my part' for the guys who are in the same situation now that I was in 18 months ago", he wrote in an email to Mr McCreight included in the court filing.

But selling the scopes to Pakistan more advanced than those used by US troops did not sit well with Sgt Meyer, who had served near the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

"We are simply taking the best gear, the best technology on the market to date and giving it to guys that are known to stab us in the back," he wrote.
Sgt Meyer's lawsuit alleges that Mr McCreight "berated and belittled" him after he objected to the sale.

Mr McCreight mocked his Medal of Honor nomination as "pending star status" and took exception when he went on a business trip for a more senior boss.

Sgt Meyer trained US soldiers to use the thermal scope technology at Ausgar
"May I remind you whom [sic] works for who [sic]? You report to me, not Jerry or Vadim [the division president]," Mr McCreight wrote.

In an attempt to resume his old job at Ausgar, Sgt Meyer contacted his former supervisor, who told him there was likely to be an opening in his team.

However, after Sgt Meyer resigned from BAE in May 2011, Sgt Meyer received an email from an Ausgar supervisor that said the firm would not be rehiring him.

Bob Higginson, a manager who needed to approve the hiring, had been contacted by Mr McCreight, Sgt Meyer says.

According to a copy of the email included in the court documents, Mr McCreight had told him that the marine was mentally unstable, was not performing his duties and had problems with social drinking.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by Prem »

Rishirishi wrote:There has been talks of letting India send 50 000 solders to man the Afghan-Pak border. Would this be in India's interest?I understand that the border is about 2000 km. hence 50 000 soldiers means 25 per km.
Its not 50k but 150k . In the mean NATO time

[url=http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20610] Inhi Loggo ne , Nato loggo ne lei leena Duppatta Mera /url]
US military refuses to apologise over Nato attack
To rub salt into Pakistan's wounds, US military has refused to apologise over deadly Nato attack.
Gen Martin Dempsey, the most senior figure in the US military has refused to apologise for an air strike at the weekend that killed 26 Pakistani soldiers.The Pakistan Army claimed the attack lasted almost two hours, and that it continued even after commanders on the ground contacted Nato to ask what was going on.In a TV interview, Gen Dempsey said he telephoned Pakistan Army Chief General Ashfaq Kayani and “expressed regret”.“They have reason to be furious that they have 24 soldiers dead and that what killed them was the ordinance of a partner,” he said.Asked if there was anything to apologise for, Gen Dempsey said: “absolutely not.”Gen Dempsey also admitted that the US relationship with Pakistan, viewed from the outside is “the worst it’s ever been
Woh bhi kya din thei jub ghodd mei bitha thei Kabbhi
Annsu nikle tho, Vasleen lagga te thei Jabbhi
Abb to AAh bhi nikle tho Russwai hai
Lagta hai Pakiyo ne phir Musharraf ..Hai!!
Last edited by Prem on 30 Nov 2011 02:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Post by RCase »

Thinking about the NATO raid and discussions about India not acting in a similar manner, I would like to jog the memory of how IAF downed the Atlantique!

Given the history of how the PA has deliberately traded uniforms for mufti and assumed dubious roles, I am lead to believe that the ones 'martyred' were the sarkari tellibunies.

On a humorous note - Q. Do the abduls who embrace Hellfires go to janaat to claim their prize or go to eternal hell fire?
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