Bharat Rakshak

Regarding the recent sniper use on LOC, cant we develop and deploy a few thousand Vidwanshak's cause havoc to Pakistanis on LOC, and try to take out any life on thier side of LOC while continously hunting thier snipers with all possible means.

It might be exactly what is happening currently

From ANI news...
BJP ends alliance with PDP in J-K
BJP General Secretary Ram Madhav, while addressing a press conference, announced, "We have taken a decision, it is untenable for BJP to continue in alliance with PDP in Jammu and Kashmir, hence we are withdrawing."

Reasons cited are
people of Jammu & Ladakh are unable to exercise democratic rights and living under fear.
But it may be too late. There is loss of good will in Jammu , too many deaths in JK with or without ceasefire.
Lets see what do they achieve under Pres rule.

Why Pres rule ?
Why can't all Kashmiri Parties come together and form the govt. It could be PDP+Congress+NC ?

In the next election, we will see NC coming back to power with congress part of it.
BJP did whatever it could in the given circumstances but the govt was doomed, the day Mufti died. One thing is clear that its bye bye Mehbooba for atleast 5-6 years.

Vikas wrote:Why can't all Kashmiri Parties come together and form the govt. It could be PDP+Congress+NC ?

Do all the three have the sufficient numbers? My understanding is that there is a shortfall of around 45 seats now that the BJP has pulled the plug. And with Mehabooba herself resigning, I guess she also knows there are no much options left.

IndraD wrote:But it may be too late. There is loss of good will in Jammu

The plan may be to get back the good will (or retain what ever is left of it). Looks like BJP does not want too go for Lok Sabha 2019 polls with a baggage of this half-baked alliance. They may still play the victim card in Jammu. Don't know if any special packages can be given for Jammu & Ladakh regions during the President's rule.

to steal a phrase from MSA ... I want uninterruped and uninterruptible operations against the jehadis...and their overground..underground supporters.

Sachin wrote:

Vikas wrote:Why can't all Kashmiri Parties come together and form the govt. It could be PDP+Congress+NC ?

Do all the three have the sufficient numbers? My understanding is that there is a shortfall of around 45 seats now that the BJP has pulled the plug. And with Mehabooba herself resigning, I guess she also knows there are no much options left.

IndraD wrote:But it may be too late. There is loss of good will in Jammu

The plan may be to get back the good will (or retain what ever is left of it). Looks like BJP does not want too go for Lok Sabha 2019 polls with a baggage of this half-baked alliance. They may still play the victim card in Jammu. Don't know if any special packages can be given for Jammu & Ladakh regions during the President's rule.

If BJP wants to exploit ONLY goodwill by this pullout, it's worse than Con party. People in Jammu have been crying for help past years, from kathua case to rohingya settlement. This decision should lead to concrete actions on the ground, and not just "oh I took back support". Also there have been cases of exodus from few places in Jammu.

this alliance was ill fated from day 1, now even after honeymoon is over ripples will be felt. JK is in chaos, Jammu in particular is becoming front of jihad in Kashmir, shift of violence from West to Central parts is happening. Rohingya settlement and Hindu exodus, Laddakh, Lekh not getting due.
What is surprising is from Su Swamy to B Dutt people from different ideology were united against govt !
Not to forget Madhu Kishwar.

Vikas wrote:Why Pres rule ?
Why can't all Kashmiri Parties come together and form the govt. It could be PDP+Congress+NC ?

Here's the seat distribution in the 89-seat J-K Assembly.
28: PDP
25: BJP
NC: 15
CONG: 12
Others: 9

I hope they keep Governor's rule for at least 6 months. In the meantime forcefully argue for revocation of Art 35A in SC and get it scrapped. There are no good options in Kashmir.

on Art 35A, let me be an outlier. It is pointless spending political spending political effort on making it easier to buy land in J&K. Who will from outside J&K will buy land in a conflict zone? Just like other states, even people in Jammu wouldn't want people from other states coming in.

So let's stop wasting time on 35A. Objective should be to take power from Kashmir valley and make Jammu & ladakh more powerful. Encourage population increase among Jammu & Ladakh locals. Population of Jammu + Ladakh should be more than kashmir valley.

Push Jammu & Ladakh people in to government jobs.

Pour money in to these regions by using the presence of Army as an excuse.

Stop wasting effort on 35A.

You are wrong on all counts. Art 35A is the key. Here is why.

Art 35A ensures that no one outside J&K can settle permanently in J&K. Due to higher birth rates the population in Kashmir is increasing compared to Jammu and Ladakh. Therefore how does it matter if people from Jammu and Ladakh move to Kashmir valley. So it is not helping to keep it isolated. As for people not wanting to move to J&K you are wrong. Please look at the CPS data on J&K demography based on 2011 census. About 2.5 lakh Hindus and Sikhs primarily males are now present in the valley. During the height of the conflict it was in the thousands. The buzz is that once Art 35A is gone the first to move in will be ex-army. The current status quo ensures that KMs run the show entirely in J&K due to demographic clout. Even the BJP with 25 seats and support of Hindus and Sikhs from Jammu and Buddhists from Ladakh has not been able to make a break through. Third, it is time to accept that Kashmir problem stems from religion based demography just like the creation of Pak. To take away control migration is key. Without demographic control leading to control of power the situation in Kashmir cannot be reversed. Hence, Art 35A is the key.

Kashmiriyat is dead.

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/kashmi ... p-alliance

Good Points, Supratik, the BJP wasted the mandate from Ladakh and Jammu by not promoting agenda from these regions while in Government and people from these regions are terribly upset. It is precisely a demographic colonisation by rapidly procreating Kashmiri Muslims. Ladakh is witnessing encroachment from these as is Jammu from Muslim Rohingyas. It's cynical of Kashmiri Muslims to allow Rohingyas to settle but not Indians from other states.

The demographic colonization needs to stop immediately. As should cultural infiltration of Ladakh and Jammu.

Also, cross border trade that NIA identified as funding terrorism and civil unrest needs to immediately stop. This was criminal of BJP to allow that. Let Kashmiris trade with rest of India that rest of the world, including China is doing. Militancy hotbeds like Shopian are extremely prosperous but filled with zest for Jehad. Taking away the money stops any insurgency overnight.

These two steps need to be implemented NOW

I think nam has a point. While 35A needs to go, but as an immediate priority is to go with what nam suggested. Tilt the power balance to Laddakh and Jammu. Too much anger there due to gross injustice being meted out to them. And that has nothing to with 35A.

At the end of its all about roti-kapda-makaan, which certainly J&K is not capable of for doing with rest of the country. It doesn't have jobs, doesn't have any economic activity. When Mumbaikars and Delhiyites move to B'lore or Hyderabad for jobs, one should ponder how serious this livelihood business is, and priority should be ordered on those basis.

Someone in twitter suggested Maj Gen GD Bakshi be made Governor as he was posted there during early 2000s and knows how to handle terrorism there. IMO it's a fabulous idea.

shravan, you are living in la-la land if you think it is about roti-kapra-makan. It is a full blown jihad. Read the Swarajya article. There are basically no soft options available. Also as long as KMs control the state Jammu and Ladakh will be short changed. You can't change that by dictat from Delhi.

Vikas wrote:In the next election, we will see NC coming back to power with congress part of it.
BJP did whatever it could in the given circumstances but the govt was doomed, the day Mufti died. One thing is clear that its bye bye Mehbooba for atleast 5-6 years.

Lets not kid ourselves, the alliance was doomed because Pakis and many others inimical to India wanted it so. As I said earlier, this entire tamasha is artificial. I mean once the last elections were over and people delivered a fracture mandate, both PDP and BJP showed statesmanship and wanted to work together. The verdict reflected deep divisions, and there was an attempt to bridge the differences. But that would have meant a permanent solution under the aegis of the Indian constitution and BJP would have been king. Does anybody with an an ounce of Pakis 101 knowledge, one ounce of Kashmir 101 knowledge, one ounce of US's global empire 101 knowledge, and above all one ounce of Congoon type traitors 101 knowledge knows, would have allowed this coalition to succeeded?

I mean just reflect on this. That corrupt Congoon traitor P Chidambaram all but said valley Muslims should be allowed to secede post Burhan Wani elimination and valley was in a turmoil, and he and many other Congoons and many a Lutyen elite mentioned umpteen times that the presence of BJP is an affront to KMs. Could there by anything more seditious than this.

Make no mistake, this whole tamasha is to make BJP eat humble pie and agree to a dialogue with Pakis. All those arrayed against India will collaborate, including with terrorists, to put maximum pressure on BJP as 2019 approaches. And should BJP buckle, that will be the death knell for BJP for ages to come. They will be mocked . "Hindu nationalists" will be caricatured as talking tough but buckling under pressure. It will not be Cong mukt Bharat, it will be BJP mukt Bharat. Thats the strategy of the BJP haters using Kashmir turmoil as a lynch pin.

But at the of the day, you guys come call me when it happens. There is huge domestic and international cabal at work that the 'solution' to J&K is 'joint sovereignty'', and thats why you see a certain nonchalance, a sort of apathy, even justification in calling for dialogue with Pakis even as Paki terror rages. There is an understanding that poor Pakis have no choice but to use terror because the "Hindu extremist" BJP refuses to engage Pakis.

Regarding the argument about changing demography using people from outside J&K, I do have a query.

What is stopping Jammu Hindus from increasing population? If Kashmir Muslims can breed, why not Jammu Hindus? Is art 35a stopping them?

What is stopping people from Jammu getting in to position of power in J&K administration? specially with Jammu BJP and now Governor being in power?is it 35a or incompetency of BJP leaders? who were trying to be whiter than white?

Assume we remove 35a. how many ex-army would with their family will migrate? Remember it is a conflict zone. Settling only men is a pointless exercise.

If Hindu leaders in Jammu can learn to play politics, I am sure demography can be quite easily changed.I mean look at Bengal. CPI/Congress/TMC is able to settle Bangladeshis in millions despite a hard border. Jammu politicians cannot settle in people from other parts of India.?

35a is been used an excuse for incompetency.

It means you don't follow J&K very well. Most govt jobs go to KMs. That has been the case for long. Visit twitter feeds of people from Jammu and you will find out. As for demographic competition isn't it the same everywhere in India. Why blame Jammu alone? And why do you want to catch your nose from behind your head when you can catch it from front. Why should Kashmiris be able to settle anywhere in India but other Indians cannot settle in J&K?

Supratik wrote:It means you don't follow J&K very well. Most govt jobs go to KMs. That has been the case for long. Visit twitter feeds of people from Jammu and you will find out. As for demographic competition isn't it the same everywhere in India. Why blame Jammu alone? And why do you want to catch your nose from behind your head when you can catch it from front. Why should Kashmiris be able to settle anywhere in India but other Indians cannot settle in J&K?

So Kashmir Muslims know to play politics. Let me stop playing victim and ask what are people in Jammu doing? More than the rest of the country, it is them who will effected the most.

Do they intent to play the political game and grab power and position? or just complain in twitter?

They had a Deputy CM from Jammu. A Deputy CM cannot place his people in Government positions?

What with this usual rona-dhona.. Something to cheer you up, apologies for the haram twitter link.
Tral encounter scene, final moments:
https://twitter.com/SuddhanSadaf30/stat ... 3881765889

You will never guess what happens after the soldiers say, 3 seconds! 3 seconds!

Karthik S wrote:Someone in twitter suggested Maj Gen GD Bakshi be made Governor as he was posted there during early 2000s and knows how to handle terrorism there. IMO it's a fabulous idea.

Indeed it is a great idea albeit a risky one. Let me explain:

1. The KMs hate him for his no nonsense approach and so do the Pakis. From day 1, Pakis will work round the clock on a meticulous plan to assassinate him

2. As best as the Indian security forces try any attempts to harm him, Pakis are determine lot. They have time and again shown that they can play spoiler to any move by India to break the stalemate in the valley. Thus, I don't think Indian forces can guarantee 100% that they can thwart Paki game-plan. Pakis will sacrifice any # of their unlimited supply brainwahsed pigLeTs (along with local KM colluders) to get him.

3. Pakis also know that should they succeed, India will huff and puff for a few days, and they (Pakis) will not pay a price. So there is zero deterrence factor. On other hand, post assassination, Pakis will orchestrate the usual tamasha in the valley, and Kashmir will be on the headlines with videos and pictures stone pelters and other chaos flashed around the world. Couple that with our our traitor scum who will go into a tizzy blaming ModiJi for such a "provocative" move.

4. In the current situation, best course of action IMO will be for the army to do its job with a free hand, but at the political level cool things off a bit so that Kashmir goes off the headlines.

5. I need not re-iterate the obvious, but till such time as India can inflict unbearable pain on Pakis, better to keep the Kashmir situation at a manageable level.

Sachin wrote:From ANI news...
BJP ends alliance with PDP in J-K
BJP General Secretary Ram Madhav, while addressing a press conference, announced, "We have taken a decision, it is untenable for BJP to continue in alliance with PDP in Jammu and Kashmir, hence we are withdrawing."

This is a master move. How we got here is good to recap....
After 2014 elections it was plain to BJP that J&K has to be freed from the grip of Abdullah-Gandhi/NC-INC nexus which was essentially pro Paki terrorists to hold Delhi govt. to ransom.
Ram Madhav was given in charge and he contested in a four cornered election with PDP, NC. INC and BJP plus the disgruntled Independents. He was hopeful of forming BJP govt. on own numbers of up to 45 (89/2 +1).
However thanks to greed and sabotage by local BJP leaders BJP ended up with 25 MLAs. At same time no party got a majority and hence govt. could not be formed.
The key was NC and INC together could not form the govt. and essentially J&K was Congress Mukth. This in hind sight turned out a good thing. Imagine with Rs. 90 K crores/year funds all in Swiss banks and police under the duo, J&K would be the freeway to insert Paki terrorists into Indian heartland.

RM saying the mandate was against NC and Congress convinced Mufti of PDP to form the govt. With Mufti in charge, anti-terrorist operations went on so much so that most of the terrorists are now LeT and JeM cadre and very few HeM. This is a crucial turn of events. For the foreign terrorists now target J&K police and military.
Things went south with Mufti's death and elevation of Mehbooba Mufti as the CM as she is known to be favoring the Jihadis.

It was her govt. that pushed for the recent ceasefire or non initiation of combat operations(NICO) in the guise of Ramzan spirit.
For all intents and purposes both terrorists and Pakistani troop violated the spirt of the ceasefire and led to the death of many J&K Police and servicemen. The last straw or trigger was the 36RR soldier who was brutally murdered and he comes from a long line of military service personnel. Seeing the sum total, BJP had to withdraw support if it stood for nationalism.

people who think NC or Congress will make a comeback don't understand the politics of Kashmir.

NC(Abdullahs), PDP(Muftis) and Congress(Free Slave et al) all have large terrorist sympathizers with nominal family control to give a political cover.

At same time there are some nationalist in these groups.

So its possible to envision a new beginning if these three families are eased out of political control.

All this needs political capability, its no longer a security issue.

Lets see.

Lots of Pseculars are breaking Kadas leave alone bangles. They expected BJP will take the beating like good Hindu.
Not happening.

Mid to could stick around till 2020 as J&K is 6 year term. But got greedy for 2019.

Zee News Verified account @ZeeNews
President #RamNathKovind approved the imposition of Governor's rule in Jammu and Kashmir with immediate effect.

Good, present governor's rule ends in about a week's time. It's really interesting to see who will be appointed as next governor.

i want uniterrupted and uninterruptible operations against the terrorists...and their overground..underground workers

manjgu wrote:i want uniterrupted and uninterruptible operations against the terrorists...and their overground..underground workers

I second this demand

ramana wrote: This is a master move. How we got here is good to recap....

Agree. I tried to pay some attention to RM's language on news channel after announcing the divorce. His criticism appears measured, not burning the bridges so to speak. Too early for 2019 predictions but it looks like the parties in JK will need alliances one way or another. Timely divorce. Parties can go back to there core constituents and not get weighed by alliance arithmetic.

*Yawn*
There is no bigger plan at work. Call me narracist but BJP found its political position untenable outside the valley and hence pulled the plug. Mufti girl too gets a tag of martyr in the valley and gets to fight against NC and hopefully get 2 seats.
BJP goes to the town declaring how they let go off their 'Mehbooba' and saved J&K. The prep for GE2019 has started for BJP.
The cycle of violence meanwhile will go on...
There are too many vested interests among all echelons of stake holders to let Kashmir cool down and hardly any practical action except for throwing more bodies and bullets at each other.
*more yawn*

ramana wrote:

Sachin wrote:From ANI news...
BJP ends alliance with PDP in J-K
BJP General Secretary Ram Madhav, while addressing a press conference, announced, "We have taken a decision, it is untenable for BJP to continue in alliance with PDP in Jammu and Kashmir, hence we are withdrawing."

This is a master move. How we got here is good to recap....
people who think NC or Congress will make a comeback don't understand the politics of Kashmir.

NC(Abdullahs), PDP(Muftis) and Congress(Free Slave et al) all have large terrorist sympathizers with nominal family control to give a political cover.

At same time there are some nationalist in these groups.

So its possible to envision a new beginning if these three families are eased out of political control.

All this needs political capability, its no longer a security issue.

Lets see.

R Saar, I will willingly eat crow if it is none of them from the highlighted portion not being part of the next Govt in J&K.
How do you get over this deficit of ~40 seats from valley and still form Govt in J&K ?
In fact BJP sweeping Jammu and Ladakh is now a distant possibility especially with the let down in Jammu.
Anyways BJP leadership in Jammu is a joke (Pop quiz: name top 3 BJP leaders from Jammu).

Vikas wrote:*Yawn*
There is no bigger plan at work. Call me narracist but BJP found its political position untenable outside the valley and hence pulled the plug. Mufti girl too gets a tag of martyr in the valley and gets to fight against NC and hopefully get 2 seats.
BJP goes to the town declaring how they let go off their 'Mehbooba' and saved J&K. The prep for GE2019 has started for BJP.
The cycle of violence meanwhile will go on...
There are too many vested interests among all echelons of stake holders to let Kashmir cool down and hardly any practical action except for throwing more bodies and bullets at each other.
*more yawn*

I agree. Pakis have achieved their immediate objective of scuttling any nascent peace moves between KMs and Indian govt through the Ramzan cease-fire will cool off a bit in the coming days. But make no mistake, they will attack with fury in due course. Their prime targets to keep Kashmir burning: suicide attacks on Indian forces in the valley, and targeting Hindu civilians across the LoC near Jammu when the pressure gets to them at the LoC. Couple that with urban terrorists minus the gun in India calling for dialogue with pakis, attacking ModiJi for so called 'muscular' policy etc.

I see a strange contradiction from ModiJi haters. On the one hand they attack ModiJi for soft peddling: holding Ganja's hand, having ISI investigate Pathankot (and rightfully so IMO), but yet in the next breath, they attack ModiJi for 'muscular' approach.

CRamS wrote:

..................

I see a strange contradiction from ModiJi haters. On the one hand they attack ModiJi for soft peddling: holding Ganja's hand, having ISI investigate Pathankot (and rightfully so IMO), but yet in the next breath, they attack ModiJi for 'muscular' approach.

There is no contradiction, if you remember that they are 'Modi Haters', thus the prime directive is criticism at any cost, in any manner possible, no matter what Modi Ji does.

ramana wrote: After 2014 elections it was plain to BJP that J&K has to be freed from the grip of Abdullah-Gandhi/NC-INC nexus which was essentially pro Paki terrorists to hold Delhi govt. to ransom.
Ram Madhav was given in charge and he contested in a four cornered election with PDP, NC. INC and BJP plus the disgruntled Independents. He was hopeful of forming BJP govt. on own numbers of up to 45 (89/2 +1).
However thanks to greed and sabotage by local BJP leaders BJP ended up with 25 MLAs. At same time no party got a majority and hence govt. could not be formed.

There was no sabotage or rebellion by any BJP leaders (except for a prominent rebel in ONE constituency - Udhampur). There are 27 seats, out of the total of 87 seats in the state, in which HIndus are in a majority [or nearly equal] & BJP won 24 of them (one was won by the previously mentioned BJP rebel, who has since become allied with BJP again). In fact, so thorough was the Hindu unity that BJP ended up winning seats like Doda, which is only ~40-45% Hindu. There are two seats in Ladakh that are Buddhist majority, but BJP lost them due to BJP's organisational weakness in Leh & Nubra. Out of the total of 87 seats in the state, 46 belong to the Valley & all 46 of the are Muslim majority. Even Habbakadal, which has the biggest presence of Kashmiri Pandits, is Muslim majority. In short, out of the 29 seats that are Indic majority [Hindu+Sikh+Buddhist], BJP won 24 & one was won by the BJP rebel. Calling BJP's defeat as due to local sabotage is totally unwarranted. In fact, it was only because of Hindu & BJP unity that BJP won 25 seats in J&K. There was not a ghost of a chance that BJP would win 44 seats in J&K, given that 46/87 are Kashmir Valley seats & all are Muslim majority. BJP didn't win any Muslim majority seat in Jammu & Ladakh either, except for the marginally Muslim seat of Doda (~55% Muslim).

^Shanmukh: I think your data points are correct. What we saw in 2014 was a polarized electorate with the valley voting for soft separatists. The failure of this alliance is also a failure of governance and both parties are responsible for this failure. IMO, along with Mehbooba Mufti, Rajnath Singh (what a complete a$$ he made of himself and India with his failed effort with the Hurriyat) and Ajit Doval need to be held accountable. The question is what happens now? The valley has been and continues to be alienated. If all the BJP manages from here is more strong arm actions, which may be warranted, these actions alone will not result in any meaningful long-term change.

Any long-term change would only be a result of a change in the demographics of the region, is this govt willing and capable to undertake such a project? The valley is about 80*100 km area. I am tempted to say a Grozny style operation will make quick work but that would be Adharmic but short of physical destruction a massive ideological destruction of the TNT is called for.

The valley has always voted for soft separatists- be it Mufti or the Abdullahs. Congress candidates in the valley have been no different from these two. Why Ajit Doval?

Guys, me included, lets not be arm chair critiques. We on BR know that only solution to Kashmir is destroying TSP, or miraculously, KMs become normal Indian citizens. Rest is gas. And to blame a coalition here or a policy there or concocting some bogus 'muscular policy' theory is Burka Bibi type low IQ analysis.

In the absence of extracting a price from TSP, at best Indian govt can achieve localized tactical gains here and there, and thats what they attempted with the all out operations against KMs and Pakis creating chaos, and then tried to get some talks going. Pakis scuttled that through their counter strategy. So this cycle will continue. But I do think Indian army can manage the situation in the valley. But along the LoC, very difficult. Pakis will shell the Hindu villages along the LoC and IB and create a massive humanitarian crisis irrespective of how much India hits them. Not sure what game plan Indian army has to thwart that machination of TSP.

Kashi wrote:The valley has always voted for soft separatists- be it Mufti or the Abdullahs. Congress candidates in the valley have been no different from these two. Why Ajit Doval?

I find his skills and approaches mismatched for the job at hand. He is ex-IPS, a great career being a tactical operator in the IB. I have yet to find a good Indian example of an NSA to compare to but someone who can bring various parties together (like BM) and knows how to form a strategic game plan and execute to such a plan, with setbacks expected but aggressive execution being the mantra. I do not see that in Doval. The closest person who comes to mind, who was instrumental in forming the "strategic" end of the plan in NDA I was LK Advani as HM and Deputy PM.