Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 21 Feb 2013 12:20

vina wrote:From the looks of it, that kid wasn't holding a gun. Murder is murder.

Would it have helped if SL army had put some guns besides the kid's deadbody and women folk and say they came under heavy fire and had to retaliate? I think the takeaway is SL army wanted it clean and complete. IMO that position even though not ideal is understandable given the baggage of couple of decades of turmoil.

The "Tamil Problem" will come back roaring again in another generation or so, if the current scheme of things continue.

Agreed. India and SL must ensure such a situation does not arise. The past situation should deter everyone and more so SL Tamils.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 21 Feb 2013 12:25

I always thought the caterwauling commie gyaan on Indian aid in "eliminating the flower of Sri Lankan youth" was sometimes too outlandish. IIRC there was a discussion here when someone posted an article about SL PM making a desperate call to Indira Gandhi for aid. IG replies that it so happens that she has a ship full of Ghurkhas off Colombo (now how coincidental is that?

) and she would be only happy to aid her neighbor. That article was repudiated by some former leading lights...... was that Kgoan/N3/SS?

Anyways Wiki chachi talks about IAF helicopters and "advisers" fanning across the country. Maybe there was more to it. I mean, very very few people knew we had to bomb and strafe Aizwal till the internet age, eh?

PS: The SLs did hang around with some shady characters.... Remember Keany Meany Services during Op Poomalai? Them darned Britturds again!

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 21 Feb 2013 12:35

vina wrote:
If it was not LTTE would the other Tamils have fought such a protracted war? Btw, Prabhakaran had shootouts in TN. And wasnt there a bomb at Meenambakkam killing lots of Indians by these SL secessionists? And of course when they killed Rajiv Gandhi, about 50 other locals died too.
Yes. That is why they are terrorists. BTW, the LTTE was supported, nurtured and supplied by India until Rajiv Gandhi's days, when they turned against us. The India -LTTE history is complex and has too many shades of gray. The LTTE had support right from Mrs Gandhi's days, very strong support during MGR days (more than during DMK) and yes, right until RG days.

Yes, BUT there was finally a way out. RG had forced a good agreement. But the megalomaniac Prabhakaran killed all the other moderate Tamils and started the war with IPKF. The rest was a slow grind that had to happen. Unfortunately a majority of SL and other Tamils put their force behind his ambitions instead of forcing him to get the best option on offer. So now blaming SL after the accord was shot by LTTE and their supporters is of no avail. SLA had to fight and decimate LTTE and with the rancour of those years, things are in a bit of shambles now.

vina · Post by **vina** » 21 Feb 2013 12:45

Unfortunately a majority of SL and other Tamils put their force behind his ambitions instead of forcing him to get the best option on offer.

That was his downfall. He could listen to no counsel and for him there was no "option" but an independent Eelam , however "good" the accord RG gave him or whatever. Trouble is he took the Tamils down with him. That part of the SL Army fighting the LTTE and crushing them, I have no quarrel with, it needed to be done.

But what happened later, in not winning the peace is dumb beyond words. Rajapakse would have the necessary political heft and support to do the right thing after the victory, but turned it into a long term disaster.

There is no way anyone (India or others like US etc in concert) can stop the problem that got kicked down the road from coming back. That only the Sri Lankans themselves can do, and only with enlightenment and not some dumb chauvinism and frothing in the mouth idiocy and some "Buddhist country" rubbish. SL is turning into a Buddhist Pakistan in terms of social structure and outlook. Substitute Sunni for Theravada Buddhist and Pakistan for Sri Lanka and they will seem indistinguishable. Only thing is that "non state actors" like the JVP (who are now part of the govt?) will start coming back at an "opportune" time ,unlike in today's Pakistan where they have already "flowered".

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 21 Feb 2013 13:07

Couple of thoughts on the SL-LTTE war.

1. Shows how , in the past, wars were won through mass and utter victory, rape, etc.
2. Shows how, central power is essential to keep a country coherent. I , for one, am amazed
at India's coherence and stability as a nation state. Its almost a miracle to have reasonably successfully
kept together a large mass of people with all different aspirations.
3. More and more, I believe that the Singapore model of leadership...that is ...strong central leadership with like minded people as followers, might be a good way , even in the corporate world.

vina · Post by **vina** » 21 Feb 2013 13:13

More and more, I believe that the Singapore model of leadership...that is ...strong central leadership with like minded people as followers, might be a good way , even in the corporate world.

Am not sure how true that is. I have lived in singapore. Lee Kwan Yew is always quote as saying that in the earlier times, under the British, Singapore was like a Hotel. You came, you worked, you stayed if you wanted, etc, but didn't really belong. His challenge was to make the Hotel into a Home.

How successful is he in that , I wonder. The USSR was a strong centralized state, but fell apart all the same. It takes lot more than economic success to make a nation (though economic success helps greatly, I agree).

Suffice to say, the Singapore model in India would have been a disaster. We are too big and complex for the state to be run like a company (which fundamentally what Singapore really is).

This was one thing a relative of mine who was in the Railways always answered when asked why the Railways did such a shoddy job. His answer, we are running a country and not a company. I wasn't convinced by it, but I think he was into something quite profound.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 21 Feb 2013 13:32

Poor boy.Tragedy.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 21 Feb 2013 13:36

vina wrote: Suffice to say, the Singapore model in India would have been a disaster. We are too big and complex for the state to be run like a company (which fundamentally what Singapore really is).

This was one thing a relative of mine who was in the Railways always answered when asked why the Railways did such a shoddy job. His answer, we are running a country and not a company. I wasn't convinced by it, but I think he was into something quite profound.

You maybe right.

Singapore model might have worked for Apple and Steve Jobs in some sense.
It might have worked for GE and Jack Welch. However, as regards GE, I know several people who have worked inside the company for many years and criticized company practises and had a very poor opinion about a culture of dog eat dog that was present there.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Feb 2013 14:26

Satya_anveshi wrote: Would you say that same as above if you knew that the said "kid' had participated in killing others? Not claiming that I know but a very reasonable guess as lot of kids were used as cannon fodder by LTTE. You think VP can encourage other kids to hold guns without his own kid involved?

Further, I hope it is also not complex to understand that national security cannot be held hostage to emotions of few especially with situations around people with questionable background.

oh wow hypotheticals. so nice they are.

adding one more really out there reason

- national security demands that a 12 yr boy be killed because he MAY have been a child soldier trained to shoot by his dad.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 21 Feb 2013 14:28

viv wrote:If it was not LTTE would the other Tamils have fought such a protracted war?.

LTTE did not invent the tamil discord, Singhala chauvinistic leaders did. So one way or other, with or with out LTTE, the war would've been fought. To this date, SL Govt has not shown the willingness to work with the Tamils on their demands, all this gloating and renaming tamil towns with Singhala names and building Viharas in tamil areas will only lead to another war.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 21 Feb 2013 17:10

Gus wrote:I cannot believe that people are saying
-its happened before, so its ok
-america did it, so its ok
-you were not there, so don't judge
-where were you when VP killed kids (NOTE: nobody here is supporting VP at all. Why this kolaveri in assuming that if someday says the kid was murdered then it is == I SUPPORT VP)
-rahul gandhi grew up to inherit the dynasty. So would this kid (This is the stupidest argument. yeah HE AND WHAT ARMY???? The one that is all dead bar none???? If the SL tamils form another terrorist group, it would have more to do with how SL handles things NOW...and by the way, killing kids are not the best signals of 'lets work for peace'.

Is it so complex a concept that a person can not be a LTTE supporter/sympathizer, but still be against the murder of a kid?

My sentiments precisely Gusji.

But I am all written out; further arguments are unlikely to bridge this gulf.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2013 19:14

vina wrote:
You think VP can encourage other kids to hold guns without his own kid involved?
Ok. What about his wife Mathivathani, what about their daughter, Duvaraka ? From the looks of it, that kid wasn't holding a gun. Murder is murder.

The Sri Lankans are dumb beyond belief. They probably won the war, the jury is out on that (which India helped them win, without which the LTTE would be ruling in the North and East like they did for nearly 20 years), but they have definitely lost the peace. The "Tamil Problem" will come back roaring again in another generation or so, if the current scheme of things continue.

There is no Tamil problem. The real problem is the Tamil christian problem and that is what they are hoping will come "roaring back"

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2013 19:35

Gus wrote:I cannot believe that people are saying
-its happened before, so its ok
-america did it, so its ok
-you were not there, so don't judge
-where were you when VP killed kids (NOTE: nobody here is supporting VP at all. Why this kolaveri in assuming that if someday says the kid was murdered then it is == I SUPPORT VP)
-rahul gandhi grew up to inherit the dynasty. So would this kid (This is the stupidest argument. yeah HE AND WHAT ARMY???? The one that is all dead bar none???? If the SL tamils form another terrorist group, it would have more to do with how SL handles things NOW...and by the way, killing kids are not the best signals of 'lets work for peace'.

Is it so complex a concept that a person can not be a LTTE supporter/sympathizer, but still be against the murder of a kid?

Why are some shedding crocodile tears for the SL tamils??

How are they connected to us?

What do we owe them? They are not Indian Tamils.

They left of their own accord and went abroad. They have made their lives there and let them be.

The SL do not like them, so what? No one seems to like Indians anywhere.

some moron kid gets taken down in a brutal war and lots of ladies here have gotten their panties in a bunch.

I have never seen even a pale shadow of concern for the kashmiri pundits who are our very own.

VP and his family and friends are gone for good and thanks be to god and the lankans. The end is the same for all. No one talks of what VP did. It's the gujarat riots case all over again, sympathy only for the victims. Train burning not an issue.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Feb 2013 19:41

Gus wrote:
Is it so complex a concept that a person can not be a LTTE supporter/sympathizer, but still be against the murder of a kid?

only if they had screamed up and down when the lTTe supremo was murdering other kids and at every other LTTE act consistently. but then again they can be against what they consider a murder but others will just see the outcome of a long and brutal fight to the death.

you are right baikul - going to be talking past each other

see the divide -

who will buy that there is no parochialness in this??

excellent chetak - in fact in Oz and malaysia they used to tell me they are the original tamils and turned up their noses at us

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2013 19:52

Surya wrote:
Gus wrote:
Is it so complex a concept that a person can not be a LTTE supporter/sympathizer, but still be against the murder of a kid?
only if they had screamed up and down when the lTTe supremo was murdering other kids and at every other LTTE act consistently. but then again they can be against what they consider a murder but others will just see the outcome of a long and brutal fight to the death.

you are right baikul - going to be talking past each other

see the divide -

who will buy that there is no parochialness in this??

excellent chetak - in fact in Oz and malaysia they used to tell me they are the original tamils and turned up their noses at us

I was regularly accosted by these ltte creeps in france, germany and austria and asked to apply for "political assylum"!!!

Bloody dim witted morons.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Feb 2013 20:35

hnair wrote:SwamyG, I dont think an alive Piribhakaran (or Arafat) would stabilize a region and return even a semblance of normalcy (not rapid progress, just silent guns). With his elimination and the resultant lack of instability, India can push for the rehab. And India must try hard, with lots of prodding from TN to make sure the Sri Lankans play nice.

Nair saare.....it is not about LTTE, it is about how Sinhalese are handling the Tamilians - right from Sri Lanka's independence, pre and post civil war. Unfortunately for the Tamilians LTTE eradicated the other groups. The gist is even after the war, the Sinhalese majority show no signs of maturity or ready to reconcile. Because of LTTE, the tamilians plight has been pushed under the carpet. What use is the peace, if it means the tamilians will have to go through the entire struggle once more just under different leaders.

chetak wrote: There is no Tamil problem. The real problem is the Tamil christian problem and that is what they are hoping will come "roaring back"

First, it is ridiculous to say there is no problem for the tamilians. Second, are Tamilian Christians not worthy of having a safe and dignified life? Three, the percentage of Srilankan tamilians who are Christians is a small percentage.

Added: Here is what our Stan has to say about the state of affairs: http://dharma-yuddham.blogspot.com/2013 ... karan.html

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2013 21:32

SwamyG wrote:
chetak wrote: There is no Tamil problem. The real problem is the Tamil christian problem and that is what they are hoping will come "roaring back"
First, it is ridiculous to say there is no problem for the tamilians. Second, are Tamilian Christians not worthy of having a safe and dignified life? Three, the percentage of Srilankan tamilians who are Christians is a small percentage.

Sirjee,

I specifically said lankan tamils. You are generalizing again. Why should we give a toss for non Indian tamils of any caste, creed or religion??

the ltte top management was exclusively xtian. How come? They had church and western xtian countries' support. How come?

It was never a problem " of having a safe and dignified life", it was always the problem of eelam, secession and separatism. VP wanted lankan land. The lankans rightfully buried him after shooting his sorry arse.

No country will tolerate secession in any form. A little ways down the right to free speech road and when slyly and gradually the dramatis personae move on to the secession road all affected countries will react brutally. This is the only way.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 21 Feb 2013 22:11

VP problem was not just Ealam. He wanted to be dictator for life in that Ealam, ala Castro brothers and Cuba. It when he was abandoned by Tamils on both sides that the LTTE was lost. The LTTE was never very popular in TN and was mostly a favorite of IG. TN many times warned IG not to allow LTTE types on the mainland and to kick them out of Chennai. Warnings that were mostly ignored.

The fishermen in the area are still split 50/50 over who lives where. I don't think they divide themselves as Indian or Sri Lankan fully. The border past over them and for a long time and even now mostly does not exist. So when we are talking of abandoning people this is direct family relations we are talking about here.

The Singhalese do not want to become like India. They have no interest in a federal type structure. Historically after such civil wars the losing side does not integrate. The spanish are still fighting with the Basque for instance.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 21 Feb 2013 22:31

From an earlier note of mine:

Regional views vary across India. Gujratis, Rajasthanis or Kashmiris or Punjabis may have families or kin ship across the border. So do Biharis or UP to Nepal. So do some Bengalis or Assamese or Tripuris to Bangladesh. Would you be equally sanguine if some group there considers their regional well being in contradiction to national well-being?
Certainly regional desires have to be considered by the center but the regional partiesmust weigh their real requirements against emotional kinship driving India's foreign policy. The LTTE generated lots of support and they thought nothing of killing Tamils in Sri Lanka and India. The government has multiple ways to let their concerns be known to SL...

Continuing to add to above thought - this Prabhakaran/son death is another emotional trap to generate pressure on ones own government, but to do what? Win a regional election?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Feb 2013 23:29

"The Singhalese do not want to become like India. They have no interest in a federal type structure. Historically after such civil wars the losing side does not integrate. The spanish are still fighting with the Basque for instance."

Regrettably ,I can't agree with Theo more,though with a rider.The current dispensation has in the making a Sinhalese fuhrer and fascist family hierarchy modelled on the erstwhile Nazi party.The latest outrages in the island,another leader journo shot and the CJ of the SC booted out by the pres' brute majority.The rider is that to my knowledge,with my understanding of a cross-section of the Sinhalese,though "federalism" as practised in India ,is a dirty word,there is grudging acknowledgement amongst many Lankans of the majority community,that the Tamils deserve a better deal.

This is why Chandrika was elected as Pres.,when she won the election on a campaign of ending the war through a peaceful political settlement.The Norwegians,entrusted to engineer that result with their influence with the LTTE diaspora,actually encouraged the LTTE to demand everything,with its fuhrer demanding "equality" of status with the Lankan Pres.! The Norwegians were in fact the west's catspaw to deliver an independent state,or virtual independent state in northern Lanka,so that India could be destabilised from its soft underbelly,the route that the British took.Is it any secret that the maximum amount of US "Christian" funding in India is to evangelical "Christian" groups in Tamilnadu,the very same groups who have tried desperately-and still do, to scuttle and sabotage the KKM nuclear plant?

Chandrika was in turn also betrayed by the LTTE whom she mistakenly trusted and lost an eye in the bargain in a failed LTTE assassination attempt.Prabhakaran stupidly forced the Tamils to boycott the pres. election that followed ,scuttling Ranil's hopes and bringing in Mahinda,who said every effort at peace with the LTTE had failed,either they laid down their arms and came to the table or exterminating them was the only answer.He won.After a failed attempt was made on his brother's life,he went the whole hog.The rest as they say is history.An attempt is now being made by both victor and vanquished to re-write the history of the Eelam War to suit their positions.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Feb 2013 23:32

Surya wrote: only if they had screamed up and down when the lTTe supremo was murdering other kids and at every other LTTE act consistently.

so i guess all those who have not posted in the Hyd attack thread, condemning the attacks must be paki sympahizers.

Have you condemned that incident yet? if not you are a paki sympathizer.

Have you condemned the incident before that???? if not you are a...I hope you get how ridiculous your idea is.

You don't get to imagine what others positions are based on YOUR yardstick. You do the polite thing and ASK them.

Here it is -> I am against LTTE. I am against VP (should it be was, since both are gone now?). I wish for peace between SL tamils and sinhalas, without blooshed at either side.

I am also against murder of kids.

Was that so hard?

who will buy that there is no parochialness in this??

There isn't any in mine. and not in Bakul, from what I see here. He can speak for himself, though.

I have no special allegiance to SL tamils, other than a loose affinity of fellow tamil language speakers and some sympathy for their plight. These never transformed into a support for LTTE or any other violent groups that claimed to represent SL tamils.

There...that should not be hard either.

excellent chetak - in fact in Oz and malaysia they used to tell me they are the original tamils and turned up their noses at us

oh..so that's where you come from..how dare those SL tamils having the temerity to insult you such. Surely these are good reasons for killing a kid, I suppose.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Feb 2013 23:40

Theo_Fidel wrote: The LTTE was never very popular in TN and was mostly a favorite of IG. TN many times warned IG not to allow LTTE types on the mainland and to kick them out of Chennai. Warnings that were mostly ignored.

that is not entirely true. MGR gave lots of support to VP. kizhadu (old man) will as usual say all things, I supported, I was against..blah blah..disgusting flip flopper that he is. Only JJ can be argued as against LTTE since she came to power.

LTTE did not contest elections, so it is hard to say whether they were 'popular' for majority. They sure had support of enough people to run fine for so many years.

This guy Vaiko has been the ardent supporter of LTTE. He was even claiming VP was not dead.

He gets 2% vote it seems. It can be said that's the support level as of now.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Feb 2013 23:55

Theo_Fidel wrote: The fishermen in the area are still split 50/50 over who lives where. I don't think they divide themselves as Indian or Sri Lankan fully. The border past over them and for a long time and even now mostly does not exist. So when we are talking of abandoning people this is direct family relations we are talking about here.

Simply don't buy your argument of separated families. To address this there is a well administered visa system between the two countries.

The lankan fishermen bitterly resent the Indian fishermen stealing their catch. The methods used for fishing are murderously different, the Indian nets simply scoop up all marine life and do not practice sustainable methods. The Indians wantonly fish deep in lankan waters because the Indian waters are all fished out.

we are not abandoning people here because the lankans simply do not want us in their waters, families be damned.

Indian fishermen encroaching are again the thin edge of the remaining ltte efforts fostered and supported from Tamil nadu. That's why the lankans shoot first and ask questions later, if at all.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2013 00:31

once again only one kid???

how convenient!!!
wow first Stalin now this

2 % for vaiko does not mean much when almost shades of politicians support in one manner or other
all the way from IPKF days
of course you are going to claim you are not parochial

how dare those SL tamils having the temerity to insult you such. Surely these are good reasons for killing a kid, I suppose.

actually I could care a rats ass. but then they ask me to donate and join the cause as an indian tamil in the same breath -

LTTE did not contest elections, so it is hard to say whether they were 'popular' for majority. They sure had support of enough people to run fine for so many years.

when you have all the guns it was all good

you can execute whoever you want and keep them in line-
.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 22 Feb 2013 00:49

Other organizations were always more popular in TN. The EPRLF and the PLOTE come to mind. The ERPLF also had a militant wing Even at their height however all of them combined never exceeded 10% support even in a more radicalized place like Chennai & Neyveli. It was Chennai that funded the whole thing and Neyveli that supplied quite a bit of the manpower initially. The LTTE came and forcibly took over these groups often with guns and knives and even hand grenades at times. The EPRLF in particular was the real popular and vote strong party until the LTTE came in and wiped them out. I don't have to go into how PLOTE got taken out, it was sprayed all over the front pages.
---------------------------

As far as fishing, I'm sure the lankans very much think the water belongs to them. But fishermen who have been crossing for centuries don't think that way. We can abandon them if we wish but it won't go easily.
------------------------------------

The key question that remains to be resolved is does sri lanka become more like India or does India become more like sri lanka. I think there are many Indians who are confused on this issue as well....

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Feb 2013 00:55

Surya wrote:once again only one kid???
<SNIP>

Surya - people forget that he was not any other kid. He was VP's son - whether he knew how to fire arms as a child soldier or killed someone or not is immaterial.

For a nation fighting for its very survival and which has just about managed to finish off someone like VP and LTTE, it cannot take any chances. For the SL Tamil diaspora (and western Intel agencies + Church) which nurtured and sustained the LTTE, his son could have become symbol of 'struggle'. And icon around which future struggle can be pivoted.

Statecraft and national interest call for elimination and extermination of any possible vestige of VP and his legacy. The fvcked up nature of SL and their clergy's chauvinism does not obviate this fact. The SL national interest is more important than life of any individual - be it a 12 year old kid.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Feb 2013 01:07

Chetak saar:
I understood you were referring to Srilankan Tamilians; so I was not protesting nor implied that you spoke of Indian tamilians. So, I am not generalizing and not casting any negative aspersions on your claim. My argument is specific to Sri Lanka.

India needs to care about its neighboring population from two perspective - strategic and humanitarian.

LTTE != Tamilians. Tamilians are Hindu majority in Srilanka (and in India too).

Tamilians had to travel this road of secession only because of the Sinhalese attitude and their own pre-Independence relations.

Gus, good response there: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1414565

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2013 01:08

rohit

I understand why its done but its amazing how focussed the hue and cry is.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 22 Feb 2013 01:52

WRT to the boy it must be considered that the regular soldier was unable to harm him. Orders very much must have come from the very top to eliminate him. India would never do this....

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2013 02:17

Theo

WRT to the boy it must be considered that the regular soldier was unable to harm him. Orders very much must have come from the very top to eliminate him. India would never do this...

without chaiwallah

who knows - if others can be executed with a shot in head - why a bullet in chest. maybe it was just final firefight

with chaiwallah

Its a long history and everyone has elephantine memories and VP's brutality came back to bite him

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 22 Feb 2013 02:43

Yes, a precedent has been set.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2013 02:48

Yes

Precedent was set when VP ordered the killings of PMs\ex PMs, generals, opponents and others with suicide bombs which killed all sorts of people as well as lamposting and cold blooded executions , using whoever he could as a tool (including pregnant women).

member_19812 · Post by **member_19812** » 22 Feb 2013 02:58

I am shocked to see people openly justifying murder of a minor boy just because his father was a demon. People seem to go to extreme lengths to justify the brutality for Sri Lankan forces in their war against LTTE. Simple fact is while LTTE was a terrorist organisation, Sri Lankan army was not. So it is only justified that there is an international pressure on them to investigate the human rights violation committed by Lankan army during war.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Feb 2013 03:44

People seem to go to extreme lengths to justify the brutality for Sri Lankan forces in their war against LTTE. Simple fact is while LTTE was a terrorist organisation, Sri Lankan army was not.

well what to do

you see we cared and sent troops to help them out - they turned on them, killed them mercilessly, drove them out, even planted IEDs as they were getting back into the ships.

When our troops came back through madras - more nonsense was spouted - Walls were plastered with Innocent people killing force grafitti. the local govt abused them and ignored them. Ltte men were being treated in the next room and nasty comments were passed on recuperating troops. troops had to keep a low profile and get out.

and then it was back to the two original combatants and the rest is history.

you should take it up with all HRs advocates who gheraoed the IPKF - oh no they are all dead . drat!!!

At least the SLA\GOSL set up a memorial for the IPKf

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 22 Feb 2013 06:57

^^ very good point.

And the same VP - that one who ordered others to take cyanide but himself cowered behind a shield of non-combatant men, women and children - blew up bombs and had shoot-outs in TN killing innocent Indian Tamils (and others). I was and continue to be shocked at the support shown for such a guy.

Yes, his child was not the demon he was and it is sad that he was killed exactly as Saddam's grandson (14ys) was surrounded and killed by the US. There was no international hue and cry then. Is it there for this due to an ulterior motive?

I'm also surprised to see how overfed this kid looks. Probably Prabhakaran protected him while sending other children to the front to die. It would have been magnanimous if the boy had been taken care of and all would have appreciated it. But that did not happen, and sad as the particular event is, I cant generate the same outrage due to the 25 years of massacre and carnage the boy's father wrought in SL and also on Indians.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2013 08:39

SwamyG wrote:Chetak saar:
I understood you were referring to Srilankan Tamilians; so I was not protesting nor implied that you spoke of Indian tamilians. So, I am not generalizing and not casting any negative aspersions on your claim. My argument is specific to Sri Lanka.

India needs to care about its neighboring population from two perspective - strategic and humanitarian.

LTTE != Tamilians. Tamilians are Hindu majority in Srilanka (and in India too).

Tamilians had to travel this road of secession only because of the Sinhalese attitude and their own pre-Independence relations.

Gus, good response there: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1414565

SwamyG saar,

We seem to be shy of identifying the ltte as a ruthless xtian terrorist group with very distinct and largely hidden objectives. The groundswell of western xtian government and church support is the key to understanding this phenomena. In this very support is the predicament that the GOSL finds itself in today.

The leaders were crypto xtians with very distinct Hindu names. That they used largely Hindu foot soldiers, their methods of forced recruitment of one child from each family and their Tamil nadu support base of converted Xtians which continues to this very day with creeps like "father jegath" kanimozhi, vaiko, karunanidhi and his dubious gang egging on the Indian government to commit international hara kiri by supporting UN sanctions and calls for western xtian dominated inquiries into human rights violations by the GOSL, says it all.

Next, GOI will be sponsoring similar inquires against ourselves as is being demanded by suzzanah and her motley crew. Will any country ever progress by listening to filth like the above quoted biased dregs of "humanity"

Secession is going to be put down violently, come what may. The greed for planting the cross or the cresent and the subsequent control of entire populations to further strategic objectives, oil security and achieving pre eminient local influences by physical presence on proximal land mass is too well known. Phillipines, Taiwan, South Korea, East Timor are recent examples.

We need to support the GOSL and not the resurgent dregs of the remnant ltte fighting for political relevance. I suspect that a very large part of their financial and arms assets are safely salted away awaiting the day that they are hoping will come soon.

And finally saar, et tu?

LTTE != Tamilians. Tamilians are Hindu majority in Srilanka (and in India too).

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2013 09:04

viv wrote:^^ very good point.

And the same VP - that one who ordered others to take cyanide but himself cowered behind a shield of non-combatant men, women and children - blew up bombs and had shoot-outs in TN killing innocent Indian Tamils (and others). I was and continue to be shocked at the support shown for such a guy.

Yes, his child was not the demon he was and it is sad that he was killed exactly as Saddam's grandson (14ys) was surrounded and killed by the US. There was no international hue and cry then. Is it there for this due to an ulterior motive?

I'm also surprised to see how overfed this kid looks. Probably Prabhakaran protected him while sending other children to the front to die. It would have been magnanimous if the boy had been taken care of and all would have appreciated it. But that did not happen, and sad as the particular event is, I cant generate the same outrage due to the 25 years of massacre and carnage the boy's father wrought in SL and also on Indians.

The "kid" was part of the planned succession plan for sure.

His elder brother was a ltte fighter, carefully placed in choreographed "front line" actions designed to enhance his personal reputation as a worthy son of a worthy father.

Have no doubts that this overfed, podgy "kid" would have followed a similar career path and he would already been adept at handling arms for "self defence".

In the photographs shown, he does not look frightened or confused. He is calmly chewing on a snack, secure in the knowledge that he will continue to be regally treated as he has always been, given his royalty status.

Such is the sinhala cunning that that even he fell for the line that he was so expertly fed. Kids of that age will be aware and anxious of the surroundings specially when completely surrounded by the life long enemy.

I have a strong suspicion that at this point, the entire family was alive and in one location and the cunning sinhalese were deep in the middle of false discussion with VP about his safe passage to keep up appearances and to lure in some more of the elusive and suspicious ltte leadership that had not yet made their fatal appearance. Hence the calm demeanor of the boy.

The sinhalese will for sure have recorded all the radio messages to and from western governments and agencies pleading for the lives of VP and the ltte leadership. Radio was the only communication channel that was open to VP in the final days and he would have used it extensively to try and arrange his escape. A lot of governments including the GOI would have recorded all the messaged so proof of perfidy is available.

The lankans laid a baited trap and succeeded. The western governments were taken for a ride and maybe that is what is fueling their extreme ire today.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2013 09:38

ravi_krishnan wrote:I am shocked to see people openly justifying murder of a minor boy just because his father was a demon. People seem to go to extreme lengths to justify the brutality for Sri Lankan forces in their war against LTTE. Simple fact is while LTTE was a terrorist organisation, Sri Lankan army was not. So it is only justified that there is an international pressure on them to investigate the human rights violation committed by Lankan army during war.

No one is justifying anything, just pointing out the Supreme national interest that is and always should be the over riding factor. I would feel bad for the kid but he paid the price of being on the losing side in a brutal war, the degree of brutality of which was set by his dear papa. The lankans just followed through. They had lost their squeamishness years ago just dealing with the ltte

There are no clear regulations and rules of engagement when uniformed forces of a country are engaging with non uniformed forces who use any and all means to fight their battle.

Geneva conventions do not fully apply.

Rules are made up as they go along.

How does one counter inventions like tailored human shields, suicide vests, pregnant bombers, and child soldiers motivated to sacrifice their lives for the cause.To the last, the ltte retained its capability to merge with the local population and literally disappear at will.

Soldiers can't do that. They are by necessity, visible all the time and are always the fall guys. They have to always play by the rules whilst his enemy is under no such obligation and in spite of being the good guys they are always cast as the baddies. They have no human rights while the terrorists always have human rights coming out of all their holes.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Feb 2013 10:00

Surya wrote:of course you are going to claim you are not parochial

the way this works is, you make the accusation/first claim...you have to back it up. Saying 'of course you will deny' is not a proof of anything but the utter lack of actual arguments you are bringing to the discussion

actually I could care a rats ass. but then they ask me to donate and join the cause as an indian tamil in the same breath

i get it..some SL tamils were ass.holes to you and you are trying your hardest to be one too.

chetak wrote: how overfed this kid looks.

The "kid" was part of the planned succession plan for sure.

His elder brother was a ltte fighter, carefully placed in choreographed "front line" actions designed to enhance his personal reputation as a worthy son of a worthy father.

Have no doubts that this overfed, podgy "kid" would have followed a similar career path and he would already been adept at handling arms for "self defence".

In the photographs shown, he does not look frightened or confused. He is calmly chewing on a snack, secure in the knowledge that he will continue to be regally treated as he has always been, given his royalty status.

Such is the sinhala cunning that that even he fell for the line that he was so expertly fed. Kids of that age will be aware and anxious of the surroundings specially when completely surrounded by the life long enemy.

I have a strong suspicion that at this point, the entire family was alive and in one location and the cunning sinhalese were deep in the middle of false discussion with VP about his safe passage to keep up appearances and to lure in some more of the elusive and suspicious ltte leadership that had not yet made their fatal appearance. Hence the calm demeanor of the boy.

The sinhalese will for sure have recorded all the radio messages to and from western governments and agencies pleading for the lives of VP and the ltte leadership. Radio was the only communication channel that was open to VP in the final days and he would have used it extensively to try and arrange his escape. A lot of governments including the GOI would have recorded all the messaged so proof of perfidy is available.

The lankans laid a baited trap and succeeded. The western governments were taken for a ride and maybe that is what is fueling their extreme ire today.

oh my god...

child physiology, psychology, international startegeee, detecting weapons training, and succession plans, body language interpretations from a two dimensional photu, comms expertise, and the best of all...doing all this while keeping an eye on the crypto christians and their devious plots. You are amazing.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2013 10:02

Gus wrote:
Surya wrote:of course you are going to claim you are not parochial
the way this works is, you make the accusation/first claim...you have to back it up. Saying 'of course you will deny' is not a proof of anything but the utter lack of actual arguments you are bringing to the discussion

actually I could care a rats ass. but then they ask me to donate and join the cause as an indian tamil in the same breath
i get it..some SL tamils were ass.holes to you and you are trying your hardest to be one too.

chetak wrote: how overfed this kid looks.

The "kid" was part of the planned succession plan for sure.

His elder brother was a ltte fighter, carefully placed in choreographed "front line" actions designed to enhance his personal reputation as a worthy son of a worthy father.

Have no doubts that this overfed, podgy "kid" would have followed a similar career path and he would already been adept at handling arms for "self defence".

In the photographs shown, he does not look frightened or confused. He is calmly chewing on a snack, secure in the knowledge that he will continue to be regally treated as he has always been, given his royalty status.

Such is the sinhala cunning that that even he fell for the line that he was so expertly fed. Kids of that age will be aware and anxious of the surroundings specially when completely surrounded by the life long enemy.

I have a strong suspicion that at this point, the entire family was alive and in one location and the cunning sinhalese were deep in the middle of false discussion with VP about his safe passage to keep up appearances and to lure in some more of the elusive and suspicious ltte leadership that had not yet made their fatal appearance. Hence the calm demeanor of the boy.

The sinhalese will for sure have recorded all the radio messages to and from western governments and agencies pleading for the lives of VP and the ltte leadership. Radio was the only communication channel that was open to VP in the final days and he would have used it extensively to try and arrange his escape. A lot of governments including the GOI would have recorded all the messaged so proof of perfidy is available.

The lankans laid a baited trap and succeeded. The western governments were taken for a ride and maybe that is what is fueling their extreme ire today.
oh my god... child physiology, psychology, international startegeee, detecting weapons training, and succession plans, body language interpretations from a two dimensional photu, comms expertise, and the best of all...doing all this while keeping an eye on the crypto christians and their devious plots. You are amazing.

Yes, I know but thanks any way for saying so.