Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 21, 2010

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 27 Jun 2010 07:21

harbans wrote:We face a similar problem within BD..they've decided to keep breeding and infiltrating India and the NE.

Where are you getting your data from? Generalizing, the BD government has had more success in social programs compared to GoI. TFR for Bangladesh is 2.3xx, TFR for India is 2.7xx.

Google TFR chart

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Jun 2010 07:22

Pakistan's FIA to collaborate with CBI on tackling terrorism

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article487572.ece

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Jun 2010 07:37

NSG meet steers clear of China-Pakistan nuke deal

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 096727.cms

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 07:44

harbans wrote: Shiv Ji, in 60 years Paki's have multiplied from 30 million to 180 million..6 times over in 6 decades. And a lot of Pakistan is mountains and uninhabitable area..and there's no family planning initiative or talk i can see in any media/ forum anywhere. Paki's know they are going to go up 500 million by 2060..this is conservative. India cannot provide that much water..Paki's know deep inside thay have to occuppy Indian territory at some point of time to accomodate these folks. Afghanistan maybe yes..but food comes from where one has major access to water. They have to look East to occuppy.

Isn't the solution in you post Harbans?

We are not going to give them more water.
We are not going to shoot refugees
We are not going to let in refugees either. Those refugees will have to build camps and live on the border, next to the fence.
If Pakistani forces must attack, they have to attack through those camps. If such an attack occurs, refugees will be legitimately shot. But that is unlikely because refugees will have fled from an area of more violence (Pakistan) to an area of less violence (border).

These are likely future scenarios

We can sit and wait till it actually happens. But this will not happen suddenly, in one morning. There will be gradually increasing strife and violence in Pakistan and increasing internal movement of people. Right now it is mainly in the North West, and right now there is no sign that it is happening along the border with India. But clearly there is an increase in internal violence in Pakistan and increased internal violence, poverty and maldistribution are hallmarks of a failed state and those hallmarks typically lead to mass internal migration.

If we decide not to sit and wait till it happens what can we do? I have already stated that there will be no free water/migration/genocide.

What is left? Do we do nothing? Or do we do something? If so what do we do?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Jun 2010 07:46

Shiv Ji, all the IA soldiers need to be reminded that time is of the cosequences of their inaction to be beared their children living under Sultnate or Aurangjeb multiply by 400%. This will have nothing to do with humanitarian cause but their Dharma to save the new generation from becoming BCs and instead of celebrating Rakhri . In Mahabharat , Arjun has to kill his own Adharmic relatives and we are talking about inbred ,mlecch Poakies berefit of humanity and the experiecne of 47 is not forgotten by millions who fought under similar circumstances. . Anyhow, we have 30 years to figure out the plan and let Poakies provide pretty please oppertunity and we will find out who was right, Doc or I?
Poaki Future= 400 Million Thirsty,Hungry and Brain Dead(BD) Jombies . A real life From Midnight to Dawn drama.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 27 Jun 2010 07:49

abhishek_sharma wrote:NSG meet steers clear of China-Pakistan nuke deal

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 096727.cms

Hypenation won't go untill it stay in indians' mind.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 27 Jun 2010 07:56

Whose progeny?

The Objectives Resolution was aimed at creating a new ethos for the newly acquired citizens, an ethos or flavour, which would supersede the centuries-old ethos that permeated their lives and psyches

In the new state of Pakistan some were citizens by choice and some by default; the ethos of these default citizens was suspect in the eyes of the rulers, who sought to alter it to suit the new state. They, like bad chefs, thought if they added enough spices, the people would forget the original taste of the food.

The Objectives Resolution, passed on March 12, 1949, was specifically designed for reorganising the internal relations between the citizens and state and to give the country its ideological bearings. Not that attempts to annihilate the old ethos were not made straight away, as is proved by Jinnah’s insistence on Urdu as the national language, even for Bengalis, and Balochistan being overrun militarily, a clear message to all to conform or face the consequences.

Postscript: Chief Minister Raisani has recently issued a notification to make Arabic compulsory from class I to X for students in Balochistan. Another blatant attempt at ‘ethos cleansing’.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 27 Jun 2010 08:11

Indian Constitution’s author a nominee of the Muslim League’

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: An Indian scholar on Saturday revealed that author of the Indian Constitution and famous Dalit leader Dr B R Ambedkar was in fact a nominee of the Muslim League in the Council of States (Upper House) of united India’s Constituent Assembly.

Participating in a discussion on a roadmap for the political empowerment of Indian Muslims, noted historian and former vice-chancellor of the Agra University, Professor Manzoor Ahmed said the Congress had refused to support Ambedkar’s candidature for the upper house.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 08:21

Prem wrote:Shiv Ji, all the IA soldiers need to be reminded that time is of the cosequences of their inaction to be beared their children living under Sultnate or Aurangjeb multiply by 400%. This will have nothing to do with humanitarian cause but their Dharma to save the new generation from becoming BCs and instead of celebrating Rakhri . In Mahabharat , Arjun has to kill his own Adharmic relatives and we are talking about inbred ,mlecch Poakies berefit of humanity and the experiecne of 47 is not forgotten by millions who fought under similar circumstances. . Anyhow, we have 30 years to figure out the plan and let Poakies provide pretty please oppertunity and we will find out who was right, Doc or I?
Poaki Future= 400 Million Thirsty,Hungry and Brain Dead(BD) Jombies . A real life From Midnight to Dawn drama.

Premji - don't you think it is an unnecessary complication to involve soldiers who are trained in some system to get this new indoctrination. First you have to get into that system and then train them to think like this. Is it not easier for dharmic patriots to be ready at the border to kill the refugees themselves?

I think we should not wait 30 years. There are things that should be done.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Jun 2010 08:24

Premji - don't you think it is an unnecessary complication to involve soldiers who are trained in some system to get this new indoctrination. First you have to get into that system and then train them to think like this. Is it not easier for dharmic patriots to be ready at the border to kill the refugees themselves?
I think we should not wait 30 years. There are things that should be done

Sir jee, Do u mean 47 again then so be it but not sure about Rajashan border, who is gonna man the post.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 08:28

Prem wrote: Sir jee, Do u mean 47 again then so be it but not sure about Rajashan border, who is gonna man the post.

I don't like termites. I don't like cockroaches. I would hate having to fight them in a mass invasion, although I would have no choice. I would rather think about what I can start doing today to stop or reduce that invasion.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Jun 2010 08:40

shiv wrote:
Prem wrote: Sir jee, Do u mean 47 again then so be it but not sure about Rajashan border, who is gonna man the post.
I don't like termites. I don't like cockroaches. I would hate having to fight them in a mass invasion, although I would have no choice. I would rather think about what I can start doing today to stop or reduce that invasion.

Except to sterilize entire population of Pakistan en mass, I cant imagine anything which would work effectively in a country like Pakistan.
I can suggest cures but Prevention should be a priority. What is on your mind Doc?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Jun 2010 08:47

Right now we just keep dusting off and wait for the opprtunity to eradicate the pests . No need to burn the house in rush , one thing at a time. Solving the Paki problem is not as imperative as to achieve our development goals. Right now we sustain and preserve our strength. Paki population bomb , water shortage and Indian arrival at the world stage will all coincide together and onlee then we act. Why do the amputation now when it calls for eventual decapitaion with proper sharp knife. Timing is the key to destroy both physical and ideological Pakistan and it will and must happen at the hands of Indians, no one else.Pakistan is an enemy and must be erased from the scene but by our own timing.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 27 Jun 2010 09:15

Sending arms from Liberia

Panama-registered Aegean Glory, headed for Karachi, was stopped at the Sandheads at the confluence of the Bay of Bengal and Hooghly yesterday after discrepancies were found between the contents of a list provided by the clearing agent in Calcutta and the declaration made by the captain. The ship was supposed to offload some of its cargo at Calcutta port.

Nicholas, the Greek captain, had told the Calcutta Port Trust pilot who had boarded the Aegean Glory to escort it to Calcutta port that the ship was carrying military hardware, including rocket launchers and anti-aircraft guns, to Karachi. This detail, however, had not been mentioned by the clearing agent.

Investigations have revealed that the military hardware had been sent by the UN mission in Liberia. Three containers carrying them were meant for the Pakistani army.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Jun 2010 09:25

abhishek_sharma wrote:Pakistan's FIA to collaborate with CBI on tackling terrorism

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article487572.ece

CBI? I thought NIA was the agency handling terrorism. Anyway most probably it is all chai biskoot so it doesn't matter.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jun 2010 10:01

abhishek_sharma wrote:NSG meet steers clear of China-Pakistan nuke deal

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 096727.cms

Then India shouldn't go ahead with the nuclear liability cap unless the US is willing to insist on safeguards as part of the China-Pak deal.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 27 Jun 2010 10:01

vera_k wrote:
harbans wrote:We face a similar problem within BD..they've decided to keep breeding and infiltrating India and the NE.
Where are you getting your data from? Generalizing, the BD government has had more success in social programs compared to GoI. TFR for Bangladesh is 2.3xx, TFR for India is 2.7xx.

Google TFR chart

Maybe because over 20 million Bangladeshis (illeagals) live in India? If they went back to Bangladesh (fat chance) then Bangladesh TFR will go up and India's down?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Jun 2010 10:10

His fondest wish was to turn himself into a nuclear bomb and get dropped on Indiahttp://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdail ... india.html

India is Pakistan’s eternal enemy. Unless we defeat it in a nuclear war, it will keep plotting conspiracies against Pakistan, said Mr Majeed Nizami, the owner of the Nawa-i-Waqt, The Nation, and Waqt TV channel, while addressing a function in his honour (Nawa-i-Waqt, June 24). Our missiles and nuclear bombs are superior to India’s ghosts, so tackling India is imperative, he declared. “Don’t worry if a couple of our cities are also destroyed in the process.”
Dr Mujahid Kamran, vice chancellor, Punjab University, Syed Asif Hashmi, chairman, Evacuee Trust Property Board, Bushra Rahman, MNA, Niaz Hussain Lakhvera, director, Lahore Art Council, Pervez Malik, PML-N MNA and finance secretary, Shoaib Bhutta, a staunch journalist friend and fan of President Zardari, and Khushnood Ali Khan, chief editor of Jinnah newspaper, paid glowing tributes to the “living legend”. Mr Bhutta blasted the Jang Group by saying that Aman ki Asha was a conspiracy to turn Pakistan into Hindus’ slave. “They want to annihilate the two-nation theory.” Only Majeed Nizami can stop the Hindu culture from entering Pakistan in the garb of Aman ki Asha, he added. Pervez Malik described Mr Nizami as the most credible (motabir) personality in Pakistan. He also praised Mr Nizami’s position on the Kashmir issue, saying that it deserved to be followed by everybody. Only Majeed Nizami’s power and force can save Pakistan, said Mr Lakhvera. Khushnood Ali Khan said that one of the missiles should be named after Mr Nizami.
Mr Nizami has changed his rationale for initiating a nuclear war with India. The Nawa-i-Waqt (Nov 5, 2008) quoted him as saying: “Pakistan should not hesitate to use nuclear weapons to wrest Kashmir from India”. He had also said that his fondest wish was to turn himself into a nuclear bomb and get dropped on India. In the 1980s, General Zia once invited him to accompany him to India. He angrily turned down the invitation saying “If I ever go to India, I will travel by tank.”

( Dont worry, when we conquer Poakiland we will dug his grave and bring him to Indian in Trunk not Tank)

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 27 Jun 2010 10:17

Acharya wrote:
Dipanker wrote: Tell me something. Somalia is a failed state. Does Somalia command the kind of respect TSP does?

USA/NATO: We can't win Afganisthan without TSP
India: India cannot realize its potential without appeasing TSP
China: nuke deal

Not bad for a so called "failed state" wouldn't you say so?

I don't buy your line of logic, using this mode of logic even Somalia is not a failed state because Somali pirates are collecting ransom money from most of the states.

Pakistan is a miserably failed state and a terrorist one at that. That is what the whole world thinks, just look at the surveys!
That logic is correct and perfectly valid. Pakistan has powerful backers who will never let it fail. So it is not a failed state and never will be.

Acharya,
Pakistan is failed state despite powerful backers, that is why it is ranked in top 10 failed state!

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 27 Jun 2010 10:47

Prem wrote:
Premji - don't you think it is an unnecessary complication to involve soldiers who are trained in some system to get this new indoctrination. First you have to get into that system and then train them to think like this. Is it not easier for dharmic patriots to be ready at the border to kill the refugees themselves?
I think we should not wait 30 years. There are things that should be done
Sir jee, Do u mean 47 again then so be it but not sure about Rajashan border, who is gonna man the post.

I'm thinking mines. A mass invasion of overbred paki's into our borders in ~30yrs would hopefully have to think twice before crossing the borders. Of course this is really the pot calling the kettle black since our own tend squat out kids like daily BM's without having (literally) a pot to piss in.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Jun 2010 10:49

ajit_tr wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:NSG meet steers clear of China-Pakistan nuke deal

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 096727.cms
Hypenation won't go untill it stay in indians' mind.

What has that report got to do with hyphenation? India has every right to oppose this diabolical nuke deal between a bunch of communist thugs and Pakijabi fascists.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 27 Jun 2010 11:30

Dipanker wrote:
Acharya,
Pakistan is failed state despite powerful backers, that is why it is ranked in top 10 failed state!

Well let us agree pakistan is failed state for a moment. Why is such a failed state causing enormous takleef to India? Or is the contention that if pakistan were to be a successful state it will cease causing takleef to India. Those rankings have limited impact on reality. If such is the problem caused by a failed state, one can only imagine what a successful state would do. Is that true, that pakistan which is labelled as 'failed state' is ripe to be ignored. If so, why are paki threads on this forum run into pages?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Jun 2010 11:44

Altair. Shiv, Prem,

The solution to Pakistan is not resting in India IMHO. Ie Killing them is not going to happen. This should not be taken to mean that they will continue to grow in population. The solution for me will be to encourage the Talibanisation of that society.

Why do I wish that? Well for the Talib an educated woman is a major threat. He will do his best to prevent the education of women. Where I am gong is simple. No educayed women means no trained mid wives for women, resulting in an increase in Maternal mortality rate. In addition as the population of TSP grows, there ability to grow food will decline due to the mismanagement of water resources. To an extent that they will not be able to sustain their population.

The examples I am thinking are Ethiopia and Somalia of the late 1980s and early 90s. Which in turn will act as a check on the Pakistani population by killing a lot of people, through hunger and malnourishment better then any AK 47s will.

No amount of food aid can keep a nation alive and sustain its population which is not governing itself well. We may see Pakistan loose 6 to 7 million in a year due to the famine

JMT.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 Jun 2010 12:06

@shiv, @harbans, @Prem, et. al

Gentlemen, I was instructed by ramana garu, to start a new thread, where India's constraints and options regarding TSP can be discussed, so that posts dealing with India's options against Pakistan can be preserved for posterity and reference, and not go under in the maelstrom, as would be the case in TSP Thread.

For that a new Thread "Pakistan-sponsored Terrorism - India's Options" was created. It is somewhat of a misnomer - It should read "Pakistan and Pakistan-sponsored Terrorism - India's Options".

I would appreciate if you could x-post your posts on the subject, in that Thread as well.

I would think, posts on Cold Start, population explosion next door, water as a pressure point, redrawing Pakistan's maps, breaking TSPA's monopoly on violence, economic strangulation, social re-engineering, etc. could be x-posted there.

Thank you

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 12:28

Pratyush wrote: . The solution for me will be to encourage the Talibanisation of that society.

This is exactly what I and some others have said too.

But I think things have actually evolved beyond that.(to my surprise)

What is happening is that as Pakis get Talibanized there appears to be a set of Pakis who are unhappy about this and looking for a way out.

Now there are (I believe) two ways of dealing with this
Option A
1) Ignore the Paquis who are suffering from Talibanization and watch with happiness as they get swallowed up
2) deal with the Taliban when they have won Pakistan

Option B
1) Give support (moral, diplomatic, piskological) support to the anti Taliban people
2) Let the Taliban fight harder within Pakistan for hearts and minds and let the fight continue longer within Pakistan because their opponents in Pakistan have more support. Why help the Taliban get a walkover?
3) If the Taliban win - fine - we have already said that is OK. If the Taliban keep on fighting Pakistan will keep on failing. If the anti-Taliban forces win we will have a bigger constituency under our influence in Pakistan. Currently the anti-Taliban forces are getting support from the US. If we do not support them and they win, only the US wins. If we can influence them, we gain influence.

The only question is what kind of influence can we exert on the anti-Taliban people.

The answer to that question can only come if we can say "Who is anti Taliban?" in Pakistan. In answer to that question there seems to be at least some Pakis who are looking for Indian help. How do we "help" them without screwing ourselves? The only thing I can say is that we try and get a handle on Pakistani education and make changes in the Paki curriculum via the anti-Taliban people who are willing to work with India. The idea is to prevent the Taliban from wining more recruits and to create from scratch a community of Pakis who are not anti-Indian. They can be coerced to cooperate when they are afraid of the Taliban There seem to be several ways in which this might be possible - but we first have to see which Pakis, if any are really interested in joining with such a plan. Nothing definite here - but no harm in trying.

Option A requires only hostility from India
Option B requires "talks"

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 27 Jun 2010 12:28

Indian, Pakistani intel chiefs meet in Islamabad

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Worl ... 097521.cms

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Jun 2010 12:58

Shiv ji,

Option A looks good to me. Will require indian to baton down the hatches.

The reason is that the talibanisation of a society will not solve its socio-economic problems. Moreover this inability to solve the problems will lead to further disenchantment in the minds of Mango Abdul. i.e, the results are not in accordance of the suffering endured by the mango Abdul, increasing the number of people seeking an escape from Taliban. Which if continues for about 20 to 30 years may just give us the peace we are seeking.

JMT.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 27 Jun 2010 14:38

The solution to all problems can be found in the book. The Taliban are the experts with regards to knowledge in the Book. If the book inspired Taliban can't be inspired to find a solution then the book must be wrong.
Pacqui population will continue to grow regardless of whether there are trained midwives available or not. The major culling in Pacquistan has to be done by the Pacquis themselves. A few years of war turned Iraq into a basket case, Pacquistan, whose only natural resource is the natural gas produced after consuming pindi chana will turn into Somalia in no time when the Taliban takes over.Pacquis are no mugs at turning genocidal, after the ethnic cleansing of Hindus, Sikhs, Xians, and Baloch they have now targetting Ahmediyas and Shias.
We should provide moral and diplomatic support to all the factions fighting in Pacquistan and the only water that we should give them is the 2300000000000000 litres of Pishaab and 3000000000000000 tonnes of Pakhana that is dumped down the Jhelum everyday, the Pacquis seem to love it so much that they are asking for more!

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Jun 2010 17:22

Altair wrote:
Except to sterilize entire population of Pakistan en mass, I cant imagine anything which would work effectively in a country like Pakistan.
I can suggest cures but Prevention should be a priority. What is on your mind Doc?

Pour some sterlising chemical in rivers that flow to Pakistan ?

Maybe Indians are doing just the opposite. That's why Pakistan is suffering from this population explosion.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Jun 2010 17:26

All this talk of 30 million turning up on the Indian border for food is unduly dramatic. I don't think it will quite happen this way. Pakistan is straining to remain a single unit. The strings that bind them together are weaker by the day, as the economic situation gets more desperate. Happily, their desperation to maintain their hollow H&D will prove to be their undoing.

What is more likely to happen is this:
1. There is going to be increased levels and intensity of a holy war within Pakistan between the purest and the moderately pure. The pakistani army will itself get divided between the purest and the moderately pure. And a split will unleash forces that will divide pakistan into a thousand (alright 10-20) different regions / areas / states / unofficial nations. Mostly this split will be along ethinic and sub-ethinic lines as would be expected in a feudal society with low literacy levels. The landowners will send their money and families outside, some will remain back to protect their land and unmovable assets. But even this will crumble.
2. The ones close to India's borders will try and use that as a leverage for better relations with india. They will have little option. They are small in size, India is huge, rich and powerful. These states / areas will then start to act as buffers between India and the mayhem beyond.
3. The situation where the Indian soldier will have to shoot thousands of refugees wanting to migrate into india might not arise in such dramatic proportions, but there might be a few relatively minor acts of rioting on the IB. But the forces of the buffer states will probably kill / loot most refugees.
4. India will not remain unaffected by this, and we will have to play our part in humanitarian efforts, and politics to keep the mayhem at bay beyond the buffer states.
5. One will have a situation where indian citizens with blood relations in the land that was pakistan will clamour to the government to do something to address the desperate situation that their relatives find themselves in. The appeal will be to act on humanitarian grounds, and will be backed by political / votebank forces. It will be interesting to see how the GoI of the day handles this.

JMT

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Jun 2010 17:36

The pakistanis are reckless in their management of their nation because at some level they 'know' that their rich and powerful estranged brother will some day step in to clean the mess.

That is why big brother keeps getting calls for showing magnanimity. As big brother gets more and more richer, hatered / jealosy for it grows in pakistan. The matter of maintaining H&D at all costs is because of this one factor.

Someone rightly pointed out that the Pakistanis themselves have not fully partitioned from India. Their army and the ISI and the mullahs who are keeping that system intact in that land have to put out weekly rejoinders to reaffirm the sanctity of the two nation theory, the chankiyan-ness of the hindoo bunniya, etc.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 27 Jun 2010 17:45

A rough template of what pakistan is headed for can be found in what the talibs made out of afghanistan. Although there was a 'government' headed by mullah omar (with advisors 24x7 from the ISI), yet most of afghanistan was different warlords with tribes.
There was frequent looting and minor warring going on, which the ISI and the talibs in the center in kabul would sort out and quell. A little bit like somalia, with different warlords, but probably better organized.

In the initial phases the cities will be relatively safe, but the countryside will be given up. But internally the cities will themselves be divided ethinically.Government's control will be via the crore commanders who will be the risaldars / governers of the areas, providing security, and indirectly collecting hafta / tax from the subjects.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 17:48

jamwal wrote:
Altair wrote:
Except to sterilize entire population of Pakistan en mass, I cant imagine anything which would work effectively in a country like Pakistan.
I can suggest cures but Prevention should be a priority. What is on your mind Doc?

Pour some sterlising chemical in rivers that flow to Pakistan ?
Maybe Indians are doing just the opposite. That's why Pakistan is suffering from this population explosion.

Indian pee contains potent hormones.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 Jun 2010 18:29

jamwal wrote:
Altair wrote:
Except to sterilize entire population of Pakistan en mass, I cant imagine anything which would work effectively in a country like Pakistan.
I can suggest cures but Prevention should be a priority. What is on your mind Doc?

Pour some sterlising chemical in rivers that flow to Pakistan ?
Maybe Indians are doing just the opposite. That's why Pakistan is suffering from this population explosion.

How often one hears this: India should look at China ... and import some Bisphenol A (BPA). Put up a few plastic factories there and everything will be OK. We can even export some plastic bottles to Pakistan.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Jun 2010 18:30

A Pakistani group that has Indian support will be more a target of killings than the Ahmedis in Lahore. If there are real liberals in Pakistan, it is best that they be perceived as anti-Indian.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 18:33

Posted without kament
http://pakistantimes.net/pt/detail.php?newsId=1934

Pakistan: A Superpower by 2050
By Dr Ali Mohammad
[The writer is noted analyst on vital topics]

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 27 Jun 2010 18:35

Gagan wrote:
What is more likely to happen is this:

2. The ones close to India's borders will try and use that as a leverage for better relations with india. They will have little option. They are small in size, India is huge, rich and powerful. These states / areas will then start to act as buffers between India and the mayhem beyond.
5. One will have a situation where indian citizens with blood relations in the land that was pakistan will clamour to the government to do something to address the desperate situation that their relatives find themselves in. The appeal will be to act on humanitarian grounds, and will be backed by political / votebank forces. It will be interesting to see how the GoI of the day handles this.

These are likely scenarios, at my workplace one paki earning big $, is going back because his land is being encroached upon, a second RAPE insists he is Indian, because his ancestral home is in India, keeps pictures of the obligatory taj mahal in his room and his wife wears a sari at work functions (this seems to be the modus operandi of pakis, note the new book by Benzir's niece ?, showed the author in a sari and bindi). This would suggest that the RAPE class wants out of pakiland. So the question is how will they do that.
I would support taking the pakis back in India, if it is associated with extending our borders. At some point in the future, the paki army will be discredited, pakiland will be in chaos and pakiland denizens will want to move or merge with India, citing blood relations and history. This will likely happen in the regions immediately adjoining the border, perhaps around LaWhore.
We talk of dehyphenation, yes we have dehyphenated from pakiland in terms of economic and technological success, but not in terms of genetics, culture and shared history. No one wishes for a retarded offspring with ADHD, but if you have one you are stuck with it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Jun 2010 18:35

A_Gupta wrote:A Pakistani group that has Indian support will be more a target of killings than the Ahmedis in Lahore. If there are real liberals in Pakistan, it is best that they be perceived as anti-Indian.

Two views on this in my mind
1) Absolutely correct - but it's their problem.
2) There may be some groups who are far enough away from violence that we can influence. Student exchanges and Aman ki Tamasha are examples.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jun 2010 18:42

From this Op-ed

ajit_tr wrote:Whose progeny?,
It beggars belief that Jinnah was in the dark about the “appeal to the bigotry of the electors”. Apologists for Jinnah have projected his secularism but have tactfully glossed over other aspects; many spontaneous remarks contradict his secularism. He once stated: “I want the Muslims of the Frontier province clearly to understand that they are Muslims first and Pathans afterwards...” This has nothing to do with secularism.

The readers would wonder what necessitated these tactics. For one it was a part of Muslim Leaguers’ belief and ethos and, secondly, the 1937 elections demonstrated that without resorting to appeals to religion, they could not survive. Agha H Amin in his piece ‘Idea of Pakistan: Myth and Reality’ details the Muslim League’s rout in the 1937 elections: “All India Muslim League was literally routed in Muslim majority provinces of India, the League just getting only 321,772 Muslim votes out of a total Muslim vote of 7,319,445, a mere 4.4 percent. In Punjab the League won just two seats out of 84, in Bengal 39 out of 117, in NWFP none. Even in Muslim minority provinces, the Muslim League was not Muslims’ first choice except Bombay where it won 20 out of 29 seats.” Without the ‘Islam in danger’ slogan, it was curtains for the Muslim League; unfortunately it also became the state’s officially approved psychology and enduring policy after independence.

The carefully crafted and propagated myth of Jinnah is unravelling. More and more commentators are speaking the truth about Jinnah, Muslim league and the creation of Pakistan.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Jun 2010 18:50

SSridhar wrote: The carefully crafted and propagated myth of Jinnah is unravelling. More and more commentators are speaking the truth about Jinnah, Muslom league and the creation of Pakistan.

No, SSridhar, paraphrasing a liberal, the quoted article is a third rate one by a fourth rate author, and we are guilty of not comprehending the complexity of Pakistani politics.

I agree the myth is carefully crafted. This is because the custodians of secular history in India see Hinduism as the root of all evil, and any demand emanating from a Hindu, even one for universal franchise and joint electorates, is by definition, communal.