News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

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Muppalla
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Muppalla »

Klaus wrote:I would say that TSP was beginning to use OBL in a tactical manner again vs India, atleast since 2007-2008. So all developments in J&K since then needs to be seen through this new prism, including al-Badr and stone throwing incidents.
I think you are on the dot. It was around 2005-2007 timeline there were intel reports and discussions in India's security apparatus of tackling al-quaida. I guess the sequence may be:

(1) OBL is cornered from all sides
(2) The tacit agreement between west and TSP is they will continue to ignore India specifics
(3) Hence OBL may be incharge of India ops instead of sitting idle
(4) JeM and LeT housed OBL as planned by TSPA and ISI

Infact if we think deep, this could be one of the adjustments that were executed seriously and at a faster pace to bring truce between various factions of the jihadi machine post Lal masjid.

26/11 is not completely investigated or revealed.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by vina »

ManuT wrote:Gentlemen
'Undead' It is based on my understanding of the enemy: Wahabi, Salafi, Jihadi worldview. ...Second, being wrapped in white cloth surely became fish food and torn to pieces, which means body is not in one piece (more complicated state of 'undead' cannot rise till body is in one piece). Not all fish (shrimp) are pious. So the pieces eaten by the uncouth fish won't be available to the Maker for putting the body together after the end of the world. Needless to say, won't get his audience with the Maker on judgement day, so his account of good-bad deeds will never be settled, so I understand, undead forever.
Yeah whatever. The MoFo is no Fish Poop and hence not in "one piece" and we are supposed to feel some empathy for some mumbo jumbo of "afterlife" and this and that the particular MoFo might have believed in.

Err. Did that MoFo ever care about "bodies being in one piece" of the thousands killed in bomb blasts he set off (many of them being religious muslims) , not to mention the thousands in the WTC , Bali, London , Madrid and of course the passengers in the planes who were killed in the process of their planes being turned into suicide weapons.

A good state to end up in I think. Fish Poop. Maybe feeding him to the dogs would have been better. Dog Poop might have been better.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by vina »

Haraam! No wonder the Pious Sheik didn't fight. The Americans used "Unclean" and "Nacheez" things in the fight. We fight only when things are halaal!

They used D-O-G-S!

Who is the Dog Hero ?

They are speculating whether it was Belgian D-o-g-s or German Shepherd D-o-g-s.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

VikramS wrote:shiv:

Not getting the piskology here.

Z.H. is a TSP spokesman.

BD is an Indian journalist, a Padam Shri FWIW. Her Verbal D, hurts; his amuses.
Correct. This is a very personal viewpoint of a type that every one has a right to express

Hers hurts, his amuses.

If you step out of what is essentially a personal (and necessarily selfish ) view of what "hurts me" and what "amuses me" we get a very simple situation:

Barkha Dutt's views are unsavory/may be poisonous to some
Zaid Hamids views are poisonous that cause amusement to some.

Both should not be given mileage. The forked tongued duplicity of BRF is the allowing of Zaid Hamid's poisonous views as "amusing" and objecting to Barkha Dutt's unsavory/poisomous views as "hurtful"

My objection is to this duplicity. Both sets of views should, IMO be disallowed, or at least not encouraged.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

hnair wrote:Bringing an Indian TV channel or its anchors into a discussion on a comical Paki and a dead bin Laden thread is a giant self-goal akin to "Hindooo terrorists are India's biggest threat" or "Baluchi involvement"..... I really wish this discussion wont go on :(
nairgolis - I fail to understand what is comical about Zaid Hamid. I don't find him comical at all. He is a Paki spokesperson and we are giving him mileage on this thread. If he is so comical put him in the benis thread or humor threadwhen people go for humor.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

Aaryan wrote:Sir if I may be allowed can I raise some questions..
1)How and why the power was cut?
Do you think the house was not under 24/7 surveillance by CIA who probably occupied 2-3 nearby houses? And if so, do you think they did not sabotage the local sub station or power lines/telephone lines with some nice bums & charges? The house was probably watched for many many weeks to make sure OBL was still inside. I for one, believe that there were assets pre-positioned on the ground even before the heliborne assault. They would have given the go (and no go if Osama suddenly decides to run half hour before the assault) and probably also assisted in grabbing stuff from the compound, blowing up a few power lines, maybe even mining the road to prevent Pakis from driving up and/or sitting with stingers on the rooftop to make sure they dont fly in with a helicopter.


Remember that the compound was found by *following* the courier back to the house. It is not the case that Unkil saw the house 3 months back. Decided to wait for 3 months and then decided to assault it. Probably half the people living in the vicinity were CIA-RAW-Mossad Types who suddenly vanished after the op. Note that there were a few hours between OBL getting his 72 and Ombaba making the announcement.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

ManuT wrote:
Gentlemen
'Undead' It is based on my understanding of the enemy: Wahabi, Salafi, Jihadi worldview. Sadhus would at least go to hell, doesn't matter what kaffir ritual is followed. OBL buried at sea is without a grave (hence in a state of undead). Second, being wrapped in white cloth surely became fish food and torn to pieces, which means body is not in one piece (more complicated state of 'undead' cannot rise till body is in one piece). Not all fish (shrimp) are pious. So the pieces eaten by the uncouth fish won't be available to the Maker for putting the body together after the end of the world. Needless to say, won't get his audience with the Maker on judgement day, so his account of good-bad deeds will never be settled, so I understand, undead forever.
Agreed, I was thinking more in the line of the West needing its demon figurehead from time to time for them to feed off and nurture their pop culture and arts. Perhaps incidents of this nature are needed for the US to continue to make money (and royalty money) with hollywood franchises such as Pirates of the Caribbean. In fact, the sea burial idea might have been inspired from these films, also indirectly proves that this Frankenstein was their idea and creation. However, they have refused to kill the idea so that it makes a resurgence in Western pop-culture in the future.
anishns
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by anishns »

According to Jay Leno...

Bill and Kate want to go on a honeymoon where they are left in complete privacy and nobody can give out their location....
No second guesses, where they are going....

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Klaus »

shiv wrote: Both should not be given mileage. The forked tongued duplicity of BRF is the allowing of Zaid Hamid's poisonous views as "amusing" and objecting to Barkha Dutt's unsavory/poisonous views as "hurtful"
Perhaps this 'humour' at Zaid Hamid videos on BRF is the manifestation of a compromising streak within all of us? If you visited the Hot Air thread a few weeks ago, there was a massive OT discussion with some "secular" posters taking defensive stands on Urdu within India, opposing DD News version of spoken Hindi etc. The discussion lasted for a full 5-6 pages and has now been shifted to the link language thread. There is a clear systemic pattern of deracination which sees ZH as some kind of circus joker, maybe it is also a variant of "the other bank seems to be greener", I dont know.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

Klaus wrote:
shiv wrote: Both should not be given mileage. The forked tongued duplicity of BRF is the allowing of Zaid Hamid's poisonous views as "amusing" and objecting to Barkha Dutt's unsavory/poisonous views as "hurtful"
Perhaps this 'humour' at Zaid Hamid videos on BRF is the manifestation of a compromising streak within all of us? If you visited the Hot Air thread a few weeks ago, there was a massive OT discussion with some "secular" posters taking defensive stands on Urdu within India, opposing DD News version of spoken Hindi etc. The discussion lasted for a full 5-6 pages and has now been shifted to the link language thread. There is a clear systemic pattern of deracination which sees ZH as some kind of circus joker, maybe it is also a variant of "the other bank seems to be greener", I dont know.
Interesting point.

Zaid Hamid is an admirably powerful speaker and his ability to communicate with Pakis is admirable. He is able to pass off the most prepostteorus lies as though they are accepted facts.

Ironically most people on BRF don;t realise just how well informed they are and hwo ill informed the average viewer is. Justy because they have the education and insight to find flaws in Zaid Hamid's powerful rhetoric they think is is OK to keep pushing his videos on here - assuming that everyone who listens to that man will think is is fyunny becasue everyone has teh same degree of knowledge of history and geopolitics to dismiss Zaid hamid.

In a sense Zaid Hamid is cleverer and more effective than us on BRF. We are unable to push known facts as being credible while he is able to push fiction while we imagine that he is a joke. He is not a joke. He is a very effective Goebbelsian communicator who know that BRF like brains exist only among 1% of the population. 99% will believe him.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by sum »

A group loyal to a Taliban commander in South Waziristan launched an attack on an army camp in the northwestern Pakistani tribal area's main town of Wana late on Tuesday.

The attack by fighters loyal to Nazir Ahmed marked the first termination by a Taliban leader of a ceasefire agreement with Pakistan's army since Bin Laden's killing by US special forces on Monday.
Is this just another dog and pony show from the ISI stables to show Amir-khan/world about "how we are paying the price for this US action onlee"?
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

The courier: the multiple identities of the man who led U.S. to bin Laden

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/ ... -bin-laden
The CIA's decade-long effort to find Osama bin Laden caught a major break when agency operatives identified the al Qaeda courier who would eventually lead them to the al Qaeda mastermind's Abbottabad compound.
The courier's nom de guerre in al Qaeda's upper echelons was Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti, and he was described as a Kuwaiti-born Pakistani. But CIA officials did not know his real name or location for years.

But in 2004, they captured an al Qaeda militant named Hassan Ghul in Iraq. Ghul told his interrogators about al-Kuwaiti's growing role in the organization as a liaison to al Qaeda's operational commanders. "Ghul told the CIA that al-Kuwaiti was a courier, someone crucial to the terrorist organization," the Associated Press reported. "In particular, Ghul said, the courier was close to Faraj al-Libi, who replaced [Khalid Shaikh] Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational commander. It was a key break in the hunt for in bin Laden's personal courier." (See Marcy Wheeler for more on the Ghul case.)

The National Security Agency reportedly tracked phone calls between the courier Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti's relatives in the Persian Gulf to all numbers in Pakistan. And NSA surveillance eventually tracked Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti's location in Pakistan via one such phone call, the AP writes. Last August, they tracked al-Kuwaiti as he drove from Peshawar to the Abbottabad compound--and as analysts inventoried the facility's striking security features they became convinced that it housed a high-level al Qaeda figure.

So after all that, what did it turn out the courier Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti's real name was?
Sheikh Abu Ahmed, according to the AP:

"It took years of work before the CIA identified the courier's real name: Sheikh Abu Ahmed, a Pakistani man born in Kuwait. When they did identify him, he was nowhere to be found."
But according to CNN, the courier's name was Abu Ahmad:
"A diplomatic source told CNN that the courier who was in close contact with Osama bin Laden and who eventually led the United States to him was a Kuwaiti named Abu Ahmad."
Years of war, interrogation, surveillance, etc. to discover that real name of the courier who went by nom de guerre Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti is--Abu Ahmad from Kuwait? Really? Is the CIA just pulling everyone's leg?

And reporters now reconstructing the routine at the Abbottabad compound say the courier went locally by the name Arshad Khan, and his brother (or cousin as some neighbors thought) went by the name Tareq Khan. The Khans claimed to be ethnic Pashtuns from the town of Charsadda, in Pakistan's northwestern frontier province, and to have wealth from relatives who ran a hotel in Dubai (although some neighbors reportedly suspected they were drug smugglers). They moved to the compound in Bilal Town, Abbottabad in 2005. And they were two of the adult males killed along with bin Laden, bin Laden's son, and one of their wives, by a team of 29 U.S. Navy SEALS on Sunday.

Bin Laden apparently not on dialysis

War Dog: There's a reason they brought one to get Osama bin Laden.

Image
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Singha »

aviation week confirms it was a stealth version of MH60/Commanche that crashed in the compound

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... Helicopter

comment below that article:
Aviationnut wrote:
After seeing photo's of the destroyed helicopter, IMO, I'd bet Sikorsky/Boeing have made a transport helicopter by taking some design cues from the Comanche. From the looks of the video on CNN, it doesn't appear that the tail rotor is in a circular housing like the Comanche was, but I'd put my money on a transport version of the Comanche.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Did the United States murder bin Laden?
I get all that, but I'm not totally convinced. For one thing, some Muslims are likely to see the burial at sea as disrespectful or callous, and Muslim religious experts seem to be divided on this issue. Second, while it's possible that his body/grave might have emerged as some sort of shrine, that's hardly a certainty. Mussolini's place in the family crypt isn't a big pilgrimage site for proto-fascists, and the site of the bunker where Hitler died hasn't become a big rallying place for neo-Nazis. Revolutionary states like the Soviet Union, Iran, and Vietnam have built enormous shrines to their founding leaders, but do these pretentious attempts at immortality really inspire many followers? And needless to say, no government or charitable foundation was going to pour any money into a shrine for bin Laden. If his body had ended up buried in some remote corner of Saudi Arabia, I rather doubt it would attract a lot of visitors. And even if it did, as Yglesias points out, it would be a nice way to get their pictures on file.
The bin Laden aftermath: In Pakistan, many questions and few answers
The extraordinary and dramatic killing of America's Most Wanted Man has brought confusion, embarrassment, triumph, regret and a resounding cold shoulder to the Pakistani people from the international community. A senior Pakistani diplomat told me, "Maybe it's time to accept that, in great power games, we don't matter." :rotfl: This comment could be a public relations exercise to wash Pakistan's hands of any responsibility for Osama bin Laden's death and the ensuing militant backlash. But it's clear that a solo operation on Pakistani soil by U.S. Navy SEALs is a reality check for unassuming citizens who have let the Pakistani Army's budget fuel theirs and the army's delusions of grandeur. :((

It's hard to blame Pakistanis for the utter bewilderment they are experiencing after the death of bin Laden. Pakistan's leaders seem dumbfounded by the whole operation, and a lack of a coherent public message from the government, the military, and the intelligence service the ISI has only hindered the average Pakistani's desire to find a defensible position on the issue. Pakistanis are left with many questions and few answers. :((

How could the world's most wanted man be hiding around the corner from a Pakistani military academy? If Osama bin Laden had been living in Abbottabad, a mere two hours' drive from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad, without the ISI's knowledge, it was a criminal stroke of genius on his part. Hide where the drones don't fall and where they'll never think to look. The bigger the house the fewer questions asked. Wealth in Pakistan serves as its own boundary wall between the privileged and the law.

How could the Army not have known and/or engaged foreign forces conducting combat operations within Pakistan's borders? The same senior Pakistani diplomat told me, "Pakistanis are just unaware of the U.S. military's capabilities." If this is the case, then the American military machine has immeasurable might, or the Pakistan Army has short arms and deep pockets.

Why wouldn't America share the information about the upcoming raid with the Pakistani Army so that the U.S.'s own fairly high-risk operation was not compromised by Pakistani forces? Would the Pakistan Army refuse an operation against bin Laden? Probably not, but Pakistan could conceivably request to mount their own operation to take him out. One reason the Americans did not take Pakistan into confidence was concern that the Pakistani Army could not be trusted with this information. The Pakistani Army would have had too much to answer for to the U.S. if members of it were irresponsible with details about the raid, and bin Laden escaped.

How could bin Laden have been located without Pakistani intelligence? Common sense tells us that he couldn't have been. Even if Pakistan's government pleads ignorance on all counts, it is inconceivable that the United States could have located this target without some prior form of help from the ISI. And if this is indeed the case, then one has to concede that the ISI would not share intelligence on a terrorist they are secretly trying to harbor.

Every retired Pakistani military man I have spoken with thinks that ISI/Army members must have been clued in to the operation or bin Laden's location, but likely at the most five to ten people were in the know. If the Army knew anything, it was likely only at the highest levels -- Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, ISI chief Major General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, and their closest lieutenants -- and in that case the suggestion that Pakistan's government as a whole was somehow "sheltering" bin Laden does not make much sense because Pakistan would have sold bin Laden if they had him to begin with, in exchange for some national respect from the U.S. A possible Pakistani pitch to the U.S. could have been: we have bin Laden in our sights; you take him out, absolve us of responsibility, you get the victory, and we don't have to deal with the militant blowback at home. The continued campaign of drone strikes in the tribal areas compromises Pakistani sovereignty, but a one-time raid may be easier to sell and forget. The issue here is the concern that Pakistan's double game will leave it with nothing but a backlash from both the international community and the militants. But if you find Osama bin Laden in your own front yard, you don't really have much room for negotiation.

In the off chance that the ISI did not play a part in locating bin Laden in Abbottabad, but had some intelligence on him, what would the Pakistani military establishment gain from harboring a man like Osama bin Laden? Is he a "strategic asset" the way the Haqqani network or the Quetta Shura is believed to be? No.

A main difference between Osama bin Laden and the Quetta Shura or the Haqqani network was that bin Laden did not possess a network of fighters, was not indigenous to the land despite ties cultivated possibly through marriages, and above everything else was more of a symbol of jihad than an operational influence. Pakistani military officials have told me before that the reason why the Haqqanis and the Quetta Shura may serve as assets is because they possess vast networks and will still be around long after the Americans leave Afghanistan. If Pakistan wants to exercise ‘strategic depth' in what they may assume will be a protracted battle for power in Afghanistan after the U.S. leaves, then they want to back the men whose main interest is power in Afghanistan.

Bin Laden's goals were megalomaniacal, stretched over continents, and completely incompatible with the idea of negotiations. The Haqqani network and the Quetta Shura are insurgent groups, or bands of terrorists by most accounts, but potentially both could get their feet in the door for negotiations in Afghanistan. Taking all this into consideration, it is hard to see how Pakistan could have considered Osama bin Laden a strategic asset the way the Haqqani network or Quetta Shura are presumed to be for the Pakistani military establishment.

What if Pakistan really didn't know anything? If that's the case, then that is a bitter pill for Pakistanis to swallow and heads should roll in the establishment. The Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., Husain Haqqani has already stated that an inquiry is to take place. If the Army and ISI are found to be completely ignorant they can and should be held accountable. Worldwide attention on such an inquiry bears the possibility that a government usually impotent in front of the military could actually hold the military accountable for once.

At the moment, nobody in the Pakistani security establishment is willing to provide answers to Pakistanis. Pakistanis want to know if the ISI tipped the Americans off; they want to know if the ISI harbored a terrorist; they want to say that Pakistanis helped in the operation, either operationally or with prior intelligence, or that some kind of deal was struck with the United States. What they don't want to hear is that their country knew nothing. :(( That leaves them without a position to defend, although if there are any people that can defend the indefensible, it's the Pakistanis. :rotfl: Many Pakistanis just want to be able to have a national stance on the issue and say, "These are the facts and these are our opinions on the matter." But, alas, it is likely we won't get any of the inside facts soon, if we ever do.

Shaheryar Mirza has a masters in journalism and public affairs from American University in Washington D.C. and works as a reporter for Express 24/7 in Karachi, Pakistan. Follow him on twitter @mirza9.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by kmkraoind »

X-positng from TSPA thread.

Probably any file created in computer must have its CPU mac address, may be it blank MS office file to E-mail, etc. What NSA needs to be done is that extract all mac IDs of files obtained from HDDs, CD/DVDs and other pen drives and match those from known every database from Google farms to ISPs and its electronic listening posts to identify location of those mac IDs and to keep a watch on them. It might include plenty of ISI and Pindi computers, drug lords and suppliers, middle east donors and money launders and western supporters of AQ. Indeed it is interesting to watch out for sudden car and cardiac arrests in middle east and Europe ROPs.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Sorting through the moral and ethical confusion surrounding the Osama mission
Similarly, for all the administration's "sensitivity" in carefully using and recording the Muslim rituals used in the burial of bin Laden, aren't we just ever-so-slightly embarrassed at the hypocrisy of blowing a guy's brains out and then observing ritual niceties? :rotfl: Clearly, the idea was to send a message to the Islamic world that we respect their rituals. But don't we think the Islamic world at large is smart enough to see that this pious posturing -- in the wake of war, torture, and the deaths of thousands upon thousands of collateral victims of our military operations -- really is putting lipstick on a decidedly non-halal pig. :rotfl:

Another instance of twisted morality is that we apparently chose a course in the case of getting Osama that was designed to minimize civilian casualties but we don't seem to object to blowing up the grandchildren of Muammar Qaddafi in an attack that was both clearly outside the guidelines of the U.N. resolution authorizing intervention in Libya and was just as clearly a deliberate attempt by NATO commanders to get Qaddafi. Qaddafi is another bad guy who deserves a swift and unceremonious departure from the planet, but the absurd denials from NATO that we had no idea we might be blowing up him or his family are roughly as convincing as those of the Pakistanis that they had no idea that Osama had been living for six years in a mansion in the middle of one of their most secure, closely monitored, military dominated communities.

Speaking of which, high on the list of hypocritical howlers associated with this incident are of course, the expressions of outrage from the likes of Pervez Musharraf that we had violated Pakistani sovereignty during the mission to get bin Laden. Since shortly after 2002, Indians have joked that bin Laden was hiding under Musharraf's bed. Turned out, he was. Time to just fade away, General ... and to do so quickly enough that no one double checks the origins of your personal wealth too closely or :rotfl: decides that they want to actually determine who among Pakistan's military and intelligence establishments were Osama's enablers (not co-conspirators, necessarily, but those who chose to avert their eyes from that which was happening right under their noses.)

...
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by svinayak »

Pakistan, its over! I want a divorce! I'm tired of your two-timing ways. I told India she could have her way with you so I can focus on containing Iran and working off my Chinese debt. You're like Sharon Stone in the movie Casino just spending my money.

AoA
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by pemmaraju_s »

I am a new member. Hi to everyone. If I am not speculating does OBL really been killed by the amirkhan? As there is no proof for that whatsoever.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by BhairavP »

pemmaraju_s wrote:I am a new member. Hi to everyone. If I am not speculating does OBL really been killed by the amirkhan? As there is no proof for that whatsoever.
No proof, however, pigs were seen flying above the compound, and they seemed to be oinking at the goats down below.
Yeesh, what a first post!
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

shiv wrote:
VikramS wrote:shiv:

Not getting the piskology here.

Z.H. is a TSP spokesman.

BD is an Indian journalist, a Padam Shri FWIW. Her Verbal D, hurts; his amuses.
Correct. This is a very personal viewpoint of a type that every one has a right to express

Hers hurts, his amuses.

If you step out of what is essentially a personal (and necessarily selfish ) view of what "hurts me" and what "amuses me" we get a very simple situation:

Barkha Dutt's views are unsavory/may be poisonous to some
Zaid Hamids views are poisonous that cause amusement to some.

Both should not be given mileage. The forked tongued duplicity of BRF is the allowing of Zaid Hamid's poisonous views as "amusing" and objecting to Barkha Dutt's unsavory/poisomous views as "hurtful"

My objection is to this duplicity. Both sets of views should, IMO be disallowed, or at least not encouraged.

Shiv,
Pardon me but if you find BRF so distasteful no one is holding you with chains here. You need to give this a rest of dissing the very forum that allows your pisko babbles* and experiments on fellow forum members.

just my views.
Thanks,
ramana

*Your lashback at the new member Akshay Kapoor wasn't nice nor becoming of a senior member and ex-admin.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Purush »

kmkraoind wrote:X-positng from TSPA thread.

Probably any file created in computer must have its CPU mac address,
:?:
I thought MAC addresses are for network interfaces? Why would a file contain the MAC id?
Is this normal? ( I was not aware of this)
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Purush »

pemmaraju_s wrote:I am a new member. Hi to everyone. If I am not speculating does OBL really been killed by the amirkhan? As there is no proof for that whatsoever.
Birather, there is no proof whatsoever that you are not a pacqui.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Aaryan »

sum wrote:Aaryan= Paki?

All the questions sound suspiciously Paki ...
Sum sir if i ask some questions that dos not makes me paki.. I find it Highly objectionable.. I think we live in a democratic country and it’s a news and debate forum so I can ask certain questions.. Any the point of asking those questions was to point that things are not what they look like. I don’t doubt OBL is killed but, there is more then what is being told to us. The paki involvement, the planning and weither self flew across the border or from inside…
sum
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by sum »

Sum sir if i ask some qiestions that dos not makes me paki.. I find it
Highly objectionable.. I think we live in a democratic country and it’s a news and debate forum so I can ask certain questions
Aaryan-ji,
being called a Paki is the worst insult out there :oops: :oops: and my apologies if you are not one .

Somehow, the questions set off my Paki-alarm. Anyways, lots of members have answered your questions.
Shankas
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Shankas »

pemmaraju_s wrote:I am a new member. Hi to everyone. If I am not speculating does OBL really been killed by the amirkhan? As there is no proof for that whatsoever.
OBL is alive. Paki's used Djinn technology and teleported him to another mansion in Muree
trivedi
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by trivedi »

Purush wrote:
kmkraoind wrote:X-positng from TSPA thread.

Probably any file created in computer must have its CPU mac address,
:?:
I thought MAC addresses are for network interfaces? Why would a file contain the MAC id?
Is this normal? ( I was not aware of this)
Yes, MAC addresses have nothing to do with Word (or most other user application) files and cannot be used to trace back files to a computer. Depending on the application used, there can be a ton of other metadata in the file which helps narrow down the source though. A simple example is the author and institution fields that MS Word embeds in documents by default. Many an anonymous author has been unmasked by such things, but they are not foolproof. For example, anyone could register my copy of MS Word to MiaMusharraf of the ISI institution and author word files.

If there are emails on those computers with full headers, they are much more likely to be useful in tracing OBL connections to Puki bureaucracy. Browser history might similarly be instructive. Fingerprints on DVDs and such may be useful, especially if the sources have ever travelled to the U.S. or Europe and therefore been fingerprinted. Finally, there is information contained in the files themselves that may be very useful. It appears that OBL was living in this place with delusions of relative safety. 6 years of an anonymous, domestic life in one place will do that to a terrorist. Consequently, he may have carelessly saved a lot of useful information in the files themselves. One can only hope.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Aaryan »

chaanakya wrote:
Aaryan wrote:Sir if I may be allowed can I raise some questions..
1)How and why the power was cut?
2)How come 24 seals come in 4 helis ( 2 black hawk and 2 apache) for a super hot mission and one get crashed ( due to technical failure????) and then 24 seals leave with a body and lots of material and may be few other persons. Now how can so many people leave in one black hawk heli?
3)If he was unarmed as they say now, ( earlier they told he was armed) why was he killed??
4)If the people of abbottabad twited and facebooked about the operation, why no one shoot the and picture or video ( I read some where that after the seals flew off, pak security force conducted house to house search and seized memory cards and deleted vids from cell phone)
5)Why is the American version changing with time??
6)Why dint they took his wife who could have thrown more light and his recent activities??
7)If they can release pics of his youngest wife, then why cant they release pics OBL ??
1.Who says light was cut? No report from live tweet saying that lights were cut. Actually they were working out with us to buy some power but could not get it. SEALs had no need for that, you know. :wink:
2.They tracked back to Tarbela Ghazi Airfield .
3.He did not raise his hand to surrender. No way to know if he was not holding a gun hence Kill. Standard practice in US.
4.All such materials are in PA hands as you yourself said. Will come out after 100 years.
5.Its called fine tuning. OSmama is dead as dodo. That's immutable rest is chutney, enjoy it.
6.They believe in Parda and widow remarriage. She is in Gen Kiya-hai-ni's service enjoying hospitality of PA medical hospital within PMA compound. This was promised to him as a reward for not knowing anything else at assing out ceremony of 121st Terrorist Officers.
7.See it was a digital camera. Memory got full. They tried with HDD of Osmama and found full of virus. It destroyed everything expect that beautiful face. Now they have asked al zawahiri to give a photo so that they can show him.

I hope these are satisfactory answers. Man you already know more than what media and tweets have reported. Guard yourself with zeal.

Thankx for not calling me paki. and sir as far as your answers.. i can just say Wow :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Anujan
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Anujan »

kmkraoind wrote:X-positng from TSPA thread.
Probably any file created in computer must have its CPU mac address,
Purush wrote: :?:
I thought MAC addresses are for network interfaces? Why would a file contain the MAC id?
Is this normal? ( I was not aware of this)
trivedi wrote: Yes, MAC addresses have nothing to do with Word (or most other user application) files and cannot be used to trace back files to a computer
Actually this is not true. Word does store the Mac id on every file it creates. This is how the Melissa Virus was traced back to its author and he was caught. You would be interested to know that many laser printers also print almost invisible dots encoding their serial number on to pages. Also if you are in massa and have access to a scanner, try scanning a dollar bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(computer_virus)
Sahastra
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Sahastra »

If ISI-Military Nexus got caught pants down, it has more to do with a sense of complacence that they developed overtime thanks to the perceived or actual stupidy of their CIA counterparts.

1. It took close to 10 years for CIA to know what ever other intelligence agency worth its name in the world already knew - that OBL and all the top AQ operatives live in Pakistan and most of them have their sanctiaries close to the ISI-Military stronghold localities near Islamabad.

2. It was strange how CIA never figured out that everytime a Pakistani general was to visit US or everytime there were talks about reducing or cutting the aid, some AQ operative would be caught mysteriously and handed over to US.

3. It was stranger still that US was bombing the lifeless mountains of Afghanistan with smart-bombs and million-dollar guided missiles - spectacular fireworks without any spectators - when they had long been vacated and its occupants shifted to the safety of Islamabad.

4. ISI-Military Nexus was amazed at the relative ease with which it was able to indulge into acts of terrorism (Mumbai blasts, training and funding terrorism in Kashmir, 26/11 etc.) right under the noses of CIA and still be able to offer some pathetic and mostly unbelievable excuse and get away with it.

5. They were amazed at how CIA operatives were unable to get clues from the unending trail of money and other assistance from Pakistan to 9/11 masterminds. It was like you have everything in front of you but are still clueless.

The list went on and on. With each passing day, the ISI operatives were more and more convinced about the dumbness of their counterpart - so much that they starting slacking in their planning and secrecy. It reached a point where ISI understood that CIA is totally dependent upon them for any info and totally incapable of any reliable intel of its own when it came to dealing with and within Pakistan.

The beginning of a major goof-up. The rest is history.
trivedi
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by trivedi »

shiv wrote:
Interesting point.

Zaid Hamid is an admirably powerful speaker and his ability to communicate with Pakis is admirable. He is able to pass off the most prepostteorus lies as though they are accepted facts.

Ironically most people on BRF don;t realise just how well informed they are and hwo ill informed the average viewer is. Justy because they have the education and insight to find flaws in Zaid Hamid's powerful rhetoric they think is is OK to keep pushing his videos on here - assuming that everyone who listens to that man will think is is fyunny becasue everyone has teh same degree of knowledge of history and geopolitics to dismiss Zaid hamid.

In a sense Zaid Hamid is cleverer and more effective than us on BRF. We are unable to push known facts as being credible while he is able to push fiction while we imagine that he is a joke. He is not a joke. He is a very effective Goebbelsian communicator who know that BRF like brains exist only among 1% of the population. 99% will believe him.
Wise words. We see this phenomenon again. Sarah Palin and Glen Beck in the U.S. and a plethora of religious and political leaders at home who seem stupid to us, win the hearts of the less knowledgeable majority just by communicating in a way they understand.
Singha
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Singha »

I believe we could have a 2 tier policy wrt to media article
[a] by pakis - disallow them unless they make some sense , but can be posted in bositiv newj thread or its a strategic player like hamid gul himself penning a few hateful thoughts - good to keep tabs on the enemy. zaid hamid is not such a player.
by indians and non-pakis - allowed to post but can also be criticized
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Aaryan »

sum wrote:
Sum sir if i ask some qiestions that dos not makes me paki.. I find it
Highly objectionable.. I think we live in a democratic country and it’s a news and debate forum so I can ask certain questions
Aaryan-ji,
being called a Paki is the worst insult out there :oops: :oops: and my apologies if you are not one .

Somehow, the questions set off my Paki-alarm. Anyways, lots of members have answered your questions.

Thats why i felt offended for being called paki.. Dont want to go in personal details sir but i mostly read and i write/comment only when i feel i can ask some thing worth asking or worth telling.. Its ok sir.. i have read your post and i respect you.. no hard feelings..
trivedi
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by trivedi »

Anujan wrote:
trivedi wrote: Yes, MAC addresses have nothing to do with Word (or most other user application) files and cannot be used to trace back files to a computer
Actually this is not true. Word does store the Mac id on every file it creates. This is how the Melissa Virus was traced back to its author and he was caught. You would be interested to know that many laser printers also print almost invisible dots encoding their serial number on to pages. Also if you are in massa and have access to a scanner, try scanning a dollar bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(computer_virus)
It appears that earlier versions of Windows indeed used the MAC address to generate a GUID (v1) which MS Word then embedded in the documents. This has not been the case since Windows 2000 though. Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globally_U ... #Algorithm

edit: grammatical mistake
Last edited by trivedi on 05 May 2011 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by ramana »

Can we take Computer related discussions to the GDF thread?

Thanks, ramana
kmkraoind
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by kmkraoind »

trivedi wrote:Yes, MAC addresses have nothing to do with Word (or most other user application) files and cannot be used to trace back files to a computer. Depending on the application used, there can be a ton of other metadata in the file which helps narrow down the source though.
Remember old DOS 6.22 where 64 KB command.com might have 100 command codes with attributes, like; dir, path, etc. Now a day a blank MS word file is having 24 KB. What do you think these 24 KB contains, certainly 0.5-1 KB contains snooping signs and addresses. I am not an expert in digital forensics, try a blank MS office word file, just open and close without saving in 5-6 machines and note increase in size (to know exact size use cmd command) of the file. Probably any MAC address might occupy just 1 byte hidden somewhere and cryptic (probably accessible to US security agencies). Some times back there was a huge cry about laser printers and inkjets leaving a signature on every print out so that it can be traced its source. Do not underestimate Khan's future thinking and snooping capabilities.
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Narad »

Reuters released photos of three dead men at OBL compond. 2/3 seem to be pakistanis.

LINK
shiv
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by shiv »

Narad wrote:Reuters released photos of three dead men at OBL compond. 2/3 seem to be pakistanis.

LINK
At least 2, if not all 3 seem to have taken head shots.
I see no head wounds in front.

1) they were running
or
2) they were caught and shot
K_Reddy
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by K_Reddy »

In the Guardian photos of the crashed halicopter, the tale section(picture 4) is clearly not of the old UH-60 Black hawk but a new stealth design.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery ... 90&index=3
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Karna_A »

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

There is no way Kayanee and Pasha did not know of OBL whereabouts.
And there is no way that they did not approve the Unkil operation. (improbable, but the truth).
Now why would they do it?

OBL was a sick figurehead, not an operational commander proving to be a drag on Pakistan's remaining 1% reputation.
Kayanee and Pasha maybe Pakis but are not fools. It took them 10 years to figure out that if holy KSA is not ready to keep this shithead, why should TSP put its lifeline on a useless figurehead. It would rather use that for Haqqanis and Omars. OBL also had a somewhat soft corner for India as compared to Unkil or Israel, as OBL started giving doctored speeches on India only after being on ISI mercy which also went against him.
Also Chipanda would have agreed. Another 9/11, with Unkil economy tanking who would buy lead paint Chipanda Walmart toys.
Chipanda will have millions of unemployed, and probably a revolution on its hand. It had no use of OBL.

So Kayanee and Pasha sell OBL and in return get some previously promised baksheesh badly needed for drowning TSP economy + more legroom in AFG.
Kayanee and Pasha are in very difficult position. Show too much love to Unkil or India, and they would be murdered like Asif Nawaz or worse Qadrified. So they have a very narrow playroom due to past and present military and Political blunders. In chess termninology, all they have left is pawns to play with.
They would need to continue to sacrifice pawns in hope one of them would become the queen.
The TSP mango Hamid fed junta believes it has only queens on the board, whereas the actual players know only the pawns have been left.

MMS, for all his perceived weakness no doubt has figured this out that the TSP problem cannot be solved by India alone. So MMS takes the high road, that f#$% terrorism, I only care about the economy. Sooner rather than later TSP would do a huge mistake when world will take care of it, though India may get 1-2 nookes.
MMS philosophy is rightly or wrongly: Why should I care about 200 terror deaths a year when 5000 children die every day?
Now does a mother really care whether 1 of her sons dies of terrorism when 5 others die due to malnutrition.
For all its on the face weakness, MMS philosophy has some backbone and seems to work till an extent though its hugely irritating and seemingly cowardly.
Last edited by Karna_A on 05 May 2011 11:04, edited 1 time in total.
Prasad
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Re: Breaking News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Post by Prasad »

Only question in that logic would be, why abbotabad and invite outcry and not in some cave and gain positive image?
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