Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 28 Oct 2009 20:32

Aditya_V wrote:Nihat-> totally agree, whether careful planning or sheer coincidence, MMS not attack PAK has been a great accomplisment..

I guess MMS is a student of ABV

Muns · Post by **Muns** » 28 Oct 2009 20:33

From Wiki :

The name "Peshawar" derives from Sanskrit Purushapura (meaning "city of men") and is known as Pekhawar or Peshawar in Pashto and Pishor in Hindko.

Mahmud was opposed by Jaipal, who had been constantly endevouring to recover the country wrested from him by Sebuktagin, still aided by some Pathans whose allegiance to the Muslim governor of Peshawar was not of long continuance.

The battle took place on November 27 and the Hindus were one again routed, Jaipal himself being taken prisoner, who upon his subsequent release resigned the crown to his son Anandpal. On this occasion Mahmud punished the Pathans who had sided with the enemy, and as they were now converted entirely to the Islam, they stayed true to their new allegiance, and joined the Sultan in his wars against the infidels.

With the collapse of the Sikh Empire, following the passing by of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and the Sikh defeat in the second Anglo-Sikh War, the British occupied Peshawar.

Post that : Sab IED's.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshawar

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 20:38

faraz wrote:http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... bomb-blast

Yes. It is 57 now. Still counting. By the look of it, the toll can go higher.

Why are the Talibans killing their own Pakhtoon brothers ? Or is it the handiwork of Paki Army to gain sympathy among the Pakhtoons ?

This one is sectarian violence. Means its not Pashtun based thoough could be but not likely.
- Is the Sipah-e-Shaeba in strength in NWFP? I thought it was a Punjab outfit.

If these dregs are ruled out its the TSPA against the Shia Mosque to show their impotence against Iran's moves on Jundullah in Iranian Balochistan. Watch for reports of the mosque as hub for Iranian activity.

US radio news reports omit mention of Shia mosque.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Oct 2009 21:10

As long as Pakistan is getting a taste of its own medicine - Mogambo Khush Huva

We still need more of these (Kashmir, Punjab, and Northeast's combined settlement from Allah) to an extent that the world should quarantine Pakistan for good 2-3 decades.

While at it, we in India need a plan to handle EDPs (externally displaced peoples)...who, where, how, how much - need planning and support from the world over. Cheapest option is to takle the problem using IDP strategy *within* Pakistan but not sure how long that will hold.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2009 21:16

apparently ilyas kashmiri the ssg turned terrorist was presumed killed by a predator in sept but
has re-emerged and making the usual threats against India.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Oct 2009 21:22

Possible intents for the Meena Bazar incident:
[*]Pak -> US (Give me more)
[*]US -> Pak (Do more)
[*]Taliban -> Pak (stop military Ops or perish)
[*]Pak Army/ISI -> Taliban (If you don't stop terror, we will ensure we will kill more innocents than you ever will; Taliban will not win over Pak Army in this game--look at our history. Hint-1971)
[*]Sunnis -> Shias (come let's rumble, this is more opportune time)
[*]Shias->Sunnis ( Here we come; let's screw Pakistan for good together)
[*]Taliban attemp to take out some Pak Bligadiel hiding in crowded place;

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 21:25

Add
[*] Sunni TSPA signal to Shia Iran. Iran is the undeclared guardian of all Shias.
[*] based on the casualties (mostly women) and location (women shopping area), could be a Pakjabi message to TTP/Pashtuns to stop attacking Pakjab.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 28 Oct 2009 21:31

Satya_anveshi wrote:While at it, we in India need a plan to handle EDPs (externally displaced peoples)...who, where, how, how much - need planning and support from the world over.

I vote for Australia getting those people.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 28 Oct 2009 21:32

There has been a lot of expectations generated since the days when each and every analyst was giving the land of pure "no more than 6 months" or something like that.
The last big move by the miscreants to run over Isloo ended without a bang. It was just a tamasha.
The feeling that it might just be the case that something similar is on at the moment in SWA with a few ISI-orchestrated attacks at main locations to spice up the show and trim a few of the unwieldy growth (A handful of Birgadeers and kernails here and there). There are reports from the ground characterising the current Rah-e-something too in the same manner as the Swat show.
I suspect there will be internal peace soon. The just-achieved target of extracting promise of baksheesh and hosting a few higher ups from the US administration will be over soon. The real thing would be something like a declaration of independence by Pashtuns which will mean a blow to TSP. Nothing else is going to matter. No amount of EID-mubaraks mean anything to the policy/position/attitude of the power behind the establishment.
Eye-ran is still an issue to be resolved and Pukistan is the only dependable launching pad for that mission for the US (unless the NPP-awardee wants to get back home without any new adventures). POTUS/GOTUS will continue to certify compliance to KLPD with the requisite frequency and format.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Oct 2009 21:34

[*]Pak Army/ISI -> Taliban (Pak army trying to create a national movement against the taliban, while trying to keep Jihad philosophy intact)
I think it is already working. Not one person in pakistan is calling for an end to the philosophy of Jihad, all are calling for beheading / killing / maiming the perpetrators.

[*]YYY->Pakistan Junta (Giving back a taste of their own medicine - in an attempt to wean them from the sick disease called Jihad)
It was very enjoyable for these cretins when they were dishing out the Jihad to others all over the world, especially to India. Now that they are at the receiving end of the same medicine, some light is getting through the fog. Apparently not enough, because the martial race can't yet reconcile to the fact that they are mortal just like everyone else.

.

A few more of these with timed regularity, and the erstwhile martial race will abandon their visions of khilafat and earnestly engage in protecting their own musharrafs.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Oct 2009 21:37

SwamyG wrote:
Satya_anveshi wrote:While at it, we in India need a plan to handle EDPs (externally displaced peoples)...who, where, how, how much - need planning and support from the world over.
I vote for Australia getting those people.

Bartania more than any. In fact all the remaining LTTE, Jeehard sympathizers, Hutu rebels, and all who believe in murdering their way to victory need to be settled there to practice their trade.
Bartania has tolerated these scum for decades and winked at them while they merrily went about fundraising and liasioning.

After pakistan if there is any nation in the world which has tolerated terrorist movements within its borders it is this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 21:48

Two points:

kenop wrote: The real thing would be something like a declaration of independence by Pashtuns which will mean a blow to TSP.

The Pashtuns wont declare this unless they have firm external support. However they might have defacto achievement. Most likely a wide swath of country in the NWFP and adjacent areas that were incorporated into Balochistan, South Pakjab. This area could get autonmous status as a prelude. In future this might have informal arrangements with Pashtuns areas of Afghania.

Gagan wrote: Bartania more than any. In fact all the remaining LTTE, Jeehard sympathizers, Hutu rebels, and all who believe in murdering their way to victory need to be settled there to practice their trade.
Bartania has tolerated these scum for decades and winked at them while they merrily went about fundraising and liasioning.

After pakistan if there is any nation in the world which has tolerated terrorist movements within its borders it is this.

Its sadly clear that the Blunt project is still on. What Curzon said is still true to paraphrase-Behind every mullah you find the Union Jack. Earlier the radicalization of the mujahediin while facilitated by the US was a UK enabler to take on Soviet Union.Same in Bosnia to manage the Serbs and Slavs. Same with the Somali pirates now.

UK is still off shore balancing everyone including uncle. The sentiments expressed by the Anglo-Saxon leaders of the Commonwealth at the Imperial conference in the 1920s could still be lprevalent.

kidoman · Post by **kidoman** » 28 Oct 2009 21:49

SSridhar wrote:Look at the posh house of the Brigadier, who just escaped the Talibani death warrant.

Sources said the gunman had been lying in wait near the Sui gas chowk since 7:45 in the morning and when the brigadier’s car reached there at around 9:15 he unleashed a hail of bullets from a sub-machine gun.

How the hell did they know that he was waiting since 7.45 in the morning, considering that he escaped big time ???

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 28 Oct 2009 21:56

Frankly i don't buy Indians not going to Australia. It's a massive continent with huge resources and a population around 20m. Indians would be around 2-3% presently. Australia will expand in the decades and it's going to be immigration based expansion. Some of the pro China policies are immigration based political opportunism for certain. India must continue to sen people. If we don't the Chinese, Paki's and assorted scum will get massive political sway out there. It's also good for Australia to have more Indians in the long run than Chinese or Paki citizens. In 10-15 years we should be around 10% of the population in Oz. We also must strive to keep the Chinese and Paki influence in these regions at the minimum. Try looking at the long term. Australia needs a skilled bank of people to grow and utilize it's resources. White immigration alone cannot cope with that requirement over the next 2-3 decades. It has to be supplemented from countries like China, India. And it's better India than China. God forbid 20 million Paki's being settled in Oz. China will own Oz and the Indian ocean, and the entire South Pacific in that scenario.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 21:57

A very good article in DNA

A Medieval State

What a tragedy could have befallen my family and me! I could have either myself turned into a bigot or my kids could have taken up guns in the pursuit of a puritanical Islamic state like Saudi Arabia. I am extremely indebted to my parents for sticking to their roots in Allahabad and happily accepting the citizenship of 'Hindu India' instead of saltanat-e-khudadad-e-Pakistan (godly kingdom of Pakistan).

Ironically, there is nothing godly or saintly about Pakistan today. Pakistan could never become a modern republican state. So the state eventually withered away and got out of everyone's control. There was a time not too long ago when the world believed that it was the Pakistan army whose writ ran the country. How naive was this understanding.

Once considered the most powerful power centre, the Pakistan army headquarters in Rawalpindi is now under attack from Pakistani jihadis. The world also thought that the Punjabi elite had a tight grip over Pakistan establishment. Now the Punjabis themselves are not secure in their beloved town of Lahore where terrorists' strike at will.

Who then controls Pakistan? Is it the democratic establishment led by Asif Zardari? No, not at all! There is no consensus between Zardari and Mian Nawaz Sharif, the two leading rival democratic parties, even in these moments of grave internal crisis. Are the executive and judiciary now acting as the watchdog? Well, both sympathise with the likes of Hafiz Saeed and nuclear technology smuggler AQ Khan more than the state of Pakistan. Saeed and Khan are the two ideological masters of Pakistani jihadi philosophy.

All the Pakistani terror groups revere them. So it is neither army, nor the Punjabi elite that controls Pakistan any longer. Instead it is men like Saeed and Khan who do, ideologically at least.

You cannot arrest Saeed in Pakistan because he is the ideological pope of jihad. You cannot prosecute him either. The police would make such a weak case that it won't stand in a court of law for a minute. The judiciary would let him walk out because of his 'heroic services' in 'destabilising India'. And even America cannot harm Khan.

After all, he delivered a nuclear bomb to the insecure Pakistanis, stealing and smuggling nuclear technology from all over the world. The world is convinced that he smuggled dreaded technology to North Korea and Iran. He is the last hope of the jihadis who believe that Khan would one day deliver them a nuclear device to destroy their hated enemy, America.

Pakistan is today controlled by the syndicate of Taliban, al Qaeda and Punjabi terror outfits like Jaish e Mohammad. But why is it that Pakistan has failed in modern sense of the word state? A modern state in the post renaissance and post industrial revolution world is essentially run by the will of the people through democracy.

Pakistan has nothing to do both with renaissance and industrial revolution. Its ideological frontier very soon after its inception was a medieval Islamic state whose only function was to destroy India.

So the people were always kept at the margin of state affairs. Pakistan elite facilitated the military takeover of the establishment to fight India and 'liberate Muslim Kashmir from Hindu hands'.

When the entire Pakistani establishment failed to harm an emerging modern Indian state and got truncated in 1971, it vengefully came up with the idea of jihad against India 'to bleed India in Kashmir'.

A jihad genie like Jaish e Mohammed was created with the ideological training from men like Saeed and Talibani madrasas spread across the tribal belt of Pakistan to harm India. The genie is now out of the bottle consuming the state that created it.

A medieval Pakistani state, run by an army and ideologically driven by myopic people like Saeed and terror outfits like Jaish, has had to finally come to this pass where no one now understands who runs Pakistan.

and final para

Thank you mom and pop, for not migrating to Islamic state of Pakistan because I would have also exploded if not imploded by the jihadi forces that are consuming Pakistan now.

In 1997 I first examined the idea of TSP as a modern day sultanate and came up with the idea of a kabila being maintained.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 28 Oct 2009 21:59

ramana wrote: The Pashtuns wont declare this unless they have firm external support. However they might have defacto achievement. Most likely a wide swath of country in the NWFP and adjacent areas that were incorporated into Balochistan, South Pakjab. This area could get autonmous status as a prelude. In future this might have informal arrangements with Pashtuns areas of Afghania.

It is quite clear that a midwife is required for (not all) births. With India shy of playing any such role, and No other power really interested in stirring up that area Pashtun issue is settled for the moment.

I meant to say that current situation is not a pointer to anything substantial. A lot of herd-mentality reports in the media aren't of any consequence. Things are fine in Pakland. Our neighbour will remain around in the same form as long as bigger events do not take place.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2009 22:02

australia is a big continent sized country. but isnt the areas with a more liveable climate, fertile soil and reasonably urbanized locals a fairly small fraction confined to the south-east corner.

very few indians would want to emigrate and become truck drivers and miners in the outback.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Oct 2009 22:14

I don't like blaming A Q Khan alone for all the N trade that went on. These were the COASs of pakistan army at the helm when the N smuggling and proliferation went on. These guys are more responsible for this:

General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq - March 1, 1976 – August 17, 1988
General Mirza Aslam Beg - August 17, 1988 – August 16, 1991
General Asif Nawaz - August 16, 1991 – January 8, 1993
General Abdul Waheed - January 11, 1993 – January 12, 1996
General Jehangir Karamat - January 12, 1996 – October 6, 1998
General Pervez Musharraf - October 6, 1998 – November 28, 2007

Chinese premiers who were equally responsible:

Hu Jintao - 2003–incumbent
Jiang Zemin - 1993–2003
Yang Shangkun - 1988–1993

Chinese Chairman of Central Military Commission:

Deng Xiaoping, Chairman 1981-1989
Jiang Zemin, Chairman 1989-2004
Hu Jintao, Chairman since 2004

The most dangerous of these probably were Zia, Mirza Aslam Beg, Jiang Zemin (After Mao)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2009 22:21

Li peng should also be named. he was PM around 1988.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 28 Oct 2009 22:39

ramana wrote:A very good article in DNA
A Medieval State

Hey few pages back, I argued that we should call the entire country as Tribal.

Added: Btw, did we not have a thread on the impact of imploding Pakistan on Indian Muslims!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 22:45

Some stats from IF post:

WASHINGTON: The Pakistan Army has received a total of about $17 billion from the United States for arms and equipment since 1954, the year the United States entered into defense pacts with Pakistan. According to an article published on Thursday in the Wall Street Journal, since 2002, the US has subsidized the Pakistan Army to the tune of $150 million per month.

So the old British subsidy to the NW tribals was revived by US to entire nation of TSP!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Oct 2009 23:05

Its not as if printing a few $billions more will bother unkil in the least.

What bothers them is regardless of how much they print and gift, the papistani nation will eat everything in unproductive pursuits (from the khanate interests POV).

Heck, even if the actual printing presses at the Fed reserve mints were placed under direct ISI 24x7 supervision, I doubt TSP would be able to gorge itself of USD to satis-fiction.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 28 Oct 2009 23:20

Clinton Announces Aid for Pakistan's Power Sector (Wall Street Journal)

...Washington will disburse $125 million to Islamabad for the upgrading of key power stations and transmission lines.

"The Taliban can feed off the blackouts and claim the government isn't delivering services," said a U.S. official working on the power program.

Pakistan has developed virtually no new power-production capacity in nearly a decade, despite possessing significant coal and gas reserves, said U.S. officials.

...U.S. experts will begin rehabilitating power stations along the Indus river that are suffering from reduced capacity. The improvements will add more than 800 megawatts of power to from four power stations, according to figures provided in a statement from the State Department. Pakistan suffers an estimated shortfall of about 2,500 megawatts.

Washington will also help repair 11,000 agricultural irrigation tube well pumps...

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 28 Oct 2009 23:23

ramana wrote:Some stats from IF post:

WASHINGTON: The Pakistan Army has received a total of about $17 billion from the United States for arms and equipment since 1954, the year the United States entered into defense pacts with Pakistan. According to an article published on Thursday in the Wall Street Journal, since 2002, the US has subsidized the Pakistan Army to the tune of $150 million per month.
So the old British subsidy to the NW tribals was revived by US to entire nation of TSP!

Does the figure of $17Billion take into account real inflation? Is it in today's dollars? I suspect the number will be much larger and provide a context if translated into its current valuation. (Since 9/11 itself, the nominal dollar amount has been in excess of $10 Billion.)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 23:25

Maybe India should build those nuke power plants in North India and sell the power to TSP with bill paid by US?

A reverse energy transmission pipeline?

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 28 Oct 2009 23:25

The most natural country the TSPians should go should be either KSA (because despite drinking the water of Jhelum & Chenab, they worship the sands of araaabia) or PRC (because it is the closest buddy).

That should be the destination of BD's as well as when sea waters rise.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 28 Oct 2009 23:30

US-based Pak terror suspects had military pedigree (Times of India)

WASHINGTON: Two US-based Pakistanis who were arrested by the FBI earlier this month for allegedly plotting to carry out terrorist attacks in Denmark and India are both graduates of a Pakistani military school, it's been revealed, amid continuing doubts about the country's bonafides in fighting terrorism.

David Coleman Headley (Daood Gilani before name change) and Tahawwur Hussain Rana, both posted messages on an Internet board for graduates of the Hasan Abdal Cadet College, according to the FBI affidavit charging them with plotting terror.

Various alumni directories named them as batchmates in 1974 at the entry class of the college, which is Pakistan's first military prep school founded by Gen.Ayub Khan. The school counts an ISI chief (Javed Nasir), sundry generals, and several corps commanders among its alumni.

Asked on the flight to Islamabad if she was ''convinced that there is no more collaboration between the military and the ISI in assisting certain terrorist groups like Lashkar e-Tayyiba,'' Clinton bluntly answered, ''No.''

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Oct 2009 23:43

So the terrorist adopted an Anglo Saxon name?

Daood Gilani --> David Coleman Headley!

What was the mental process in this transformation? And where is this military college?

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 29 Oct 2009 00:01

ramana wrote:...where is this military college?

It is located in Hasan Abdal, Attock District, Punjab, Pakistan.

http://www.ccha.edu.pk/aboutcollege.htm

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Oct 2009 00:03

So fundoos are being indoctrinated even before they make it to Kakul? So all those who fail to make the grade can still pursue the trade in the irregular Army of Allah.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 29 Oct 2009 00:22

ramana wrote:So fundoos are being indoctrinated even before they make it to Kakul? So all those who fail to make the grade can still pursue the trade in the irregular Army of Allah.

Ofcourse. One view is that the whole Pak Army/Talibaan affair is kind of year end FPR process (performance apprisal). The Es and Fs are being eliminated. All those who fight *with* pak army are As / Bs and will be promoted.

Those who fight *against* Pak Army and its interest are automatically Fs and Es. In that sense, the current fiasco is the revenge of Fs for Pak Army.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Oct 2009 00:25

ramana wrote:So the terrorist adopted an Anglo Saxon name?

Daood Gilani --> David Coleman Headley!

What was the mental process in this transformation? And where is this military college?

Less suspicion and better acceptance at passport control?

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 29 Oct 2009 00:29

ramana wrote:So the terrorist adopted an Anglo Saxon name? Daood Gilani --> David Coleman Headley!

What was the mental process in this transformation?...

kasthuri wrote:For those who are interested: Here is the pdf copy of the charge sheet against David Coleman Headley... PDF Link

Page 9 of the charge-sheet says:

HEADLEY changed his name from "Daood Gilani" in or about 2006. In an August 2009 interview with Customs and Border Patrol, HEADLEY advised that he changed his name to raise less suspicion when he traveled.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 29 Oct 2009 01:20

ramana wrote:A very good article in DNA

A Medieval State

Thank you mom and pop, for not migrating to Islamic state of Pakistan because I would have also exploded if not imploded by the jihadi forces that are consuming Pakistan now.

Yes, of course, but it goes one step beyond. The creation of Pakistan has been a long term major political disaster for Muslims of the Indian subcontinent. They have been split into three disparate political bodies that cannot work together to improve their own lot. And one of those bodies is disintegrating further rapidly even as we speak.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 29 Oct 2009 01:24

kasthuri wrote:For those who are interested: Here is the pdf copy of the charge sheet against David Coleman Headley... PDF Link

Page 23 of the charge-sheet says:

59. In another email on July 8, 2009, HEADLEY told Lashkar-e-Taiba Member A that "I think when we get a chance we should revisit our last location again and say hi to Rahul." Following his arrest, HEADLEY acknowledged that, in this email, "Rahul" refers to a prominent Indian actor with the first name "Rahul."

63. (3). How long do you think I will need to stay at Rahuls place to complete this task.

63. (4). Will I have to stay there continuously for a while, or back and forth like before.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Oct 2009 01:28

Which one is that?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Oct 2009 01:38

ramana wrote:Which one is that?

Most probably SRK. He may be completely unaware of this.

Bollywood shows feed this network and also gives them legitimacy to visit India and elite Indians.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Oct 2009 01:39

Firstly the buildings don't look very stable to begin with. The whole street seems to have been reduced to a rubble. I wonder how deep from the street into the gullies does the effect go into. All those people who would have been trapped in there are all gone. And pakistan, the poor country that it is doesn't have anything to reach those still alive under all that rubble, even they make it out alive, there's no half decent hospital around to take care of them.

This one's the biggest bomb death toll this year?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 29 Oct 2009 01:39

More on the mysterious 'Rahul'..

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/ ... target.htm

Also read the comment section.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Oct 2009 01:43

Acharya wrote:
ramana wrote:Which one is that?
Most probably SRK

Bollywood shows feed this network and also gives them legitimacy to visit India and elite Indians.

More likely to be Sallu. His images were flashing in an flash advert on Dawood Ibrahim's website. Zee TV news made it a point to focus on that when they first broke the story of the D gang website.
Although it could be some of the fading and now lesser known stars who would indulge in this sort of thing. A certain Rahul Roy is one such possibility.

But more likely this is a 'code' for the real guy.