Bharat Rakshak

Singha wrote:UKstan or denmark or norway or netherland will be glad to extend help one expects.

ramana wrote:Soon Diggy will start seeing Hindutva inside INC itself. I think the guy has gone Islamist and is separating/rejecting the others and will start divorce/isolation

somnath wrote:Its very simplistic to think of people, politicians especialy in ideological terms...Ideology for politicians is as important as its ability to generate votes...Digvijay Singh is not turning Islamist or anything else..He is simply trying to recapture Congress's lost ground in UP, and northern India in general..the grand congress coalition in the good old days comprised of Dalits/ST, muslims and brahmins (offshoots of that are Chimanbhai patel's KHAM in Gujarat)...Of this, dalits/ST has been almost irretrievably lost to Mayawati..Muslims over the years veered to the Yadav chieftains and brahmins to the BJP...With the weakening of both Mulayam and BJP, congress feels that it has a chance of rebuilding the grand coalition..The only two sections that tend to vote en masse in a region are dalits and muslims...So if Congress can endear itself (again) to the muslims, it suddenly positions itself as an attractive alternative in UP for voterss fed up with Mayawati and Mulayam...

Digivjay is on that game, pure and simple..Fact is that he has been partially successful - UP delivered 20 seats to the congress last time, at least 10 more than the most optimistic estimate...He is now going for the jugular...He is being true to his form as a politician...

Arjun wrote:A non-judgemental whitewashing of Doggy's behavior that will not fly....This kind of analysis further sets a dangerous precedent of hiding a communal and divisive agenda behind fancy acronyms.

somnath wrote:.Seen from a contemporary context, each one of them had the potential of seriously setting India back...But somehow they dont, ...

somnath wrote:Most politicians have used communitarian rhetoric to further their cases..Digvijay Singh is hardly the first, and wont be the last..Indira Gandhi (Sikhs, Bhindrawala), Rajiv Gandhi (Sikh riots, Babri MAsjid, Shah Bano), LKA (Rath Yatra), Narendra Modi (gujarat riots), VP Singh (Mandal), Mayawati (dalits)......the list will cover every single politician you know...Seen from a contemporary context, each one of them had the potential of seriously setting India back...But somehow they dont, partly because most people see through the game and dont get overly bothered, and partly because the politician themselves know the game to act differently while making policy to while mouthing slogans...

somnath wrote:But really, what should concern the enlightened citizenry is not the soundbytes, but actual policy-making...

somnath wrote:India's international stature is a function of a single, and only a single factor, its economic heft...

somnath wrote:The BJP ran a decade-long agitation taking off on a Congress-inspired mythological non-issue, and rode that wave
to power..

The Karl Marx House museum currently receives about 32,000 visitors a year

somnath wrote:Did they do anything about it when they were in power? In their frst 13-day govt, ABV considered a nuke test, but not a bhavya mandir in ayodhya...Shows where priorities lie for the politicians when in power

somnath wrote:...Similarly, Digvijay Singh can say what he wants, but does that impact decision-making among real decision-makers?

Raghavendra wrote:

somnath wrote:The BJP ran a decade-long agitation taking off on a Congress-inspired mythological non-issue, and rode that wave
to power..

Ram mandir at Ayodhya is an important place of worship for devout sanatan dharmis, some non-believers worshipping other gods like marx, mao fail to understand this simple fact since their type of worship is different

These people believe in totalitarian ideology of communism and so attack our gods which stand in their way of total mind control

Arjun wrote: Its very simplistic to think of people, politicians especialy in ideological terms...Ideology for politicians is as important as its ability to generate votes...Digvijay Singh is not turning Islamist or anything else..He is simply trying to recapture Congress's lost ground in UP, and northern India in general..the grand congress coalition in the good old days comprised of Dalits/ST, muslims and brahmins

.He is now going for the jugular...He is being true to his form as a politician...

A non-judgemental whitewashing of Doggy's behavior that will not fly....This kind of analysis further sets a dangerous precedent of hiding a communal and divisive agenda behind fancy acronyms.

Doggy needs to be called out on his communal game, one that is deeply antithetical to India's larger interests and global positioning. And if he is doing this as a purely cynical political exercise the likes of which no equivalent democracy is ever likely to tolerate - and not due to ideological reasons , that makes him (and the INC, since they have not distanced themselves from him) all the more dangerous to the nation.

Raghavendra wrote:

somnath wrote:Did they do anything about it when they were in power? In their frst 13-day govt, ABV considered a nuke test, but not a bhavya mandir in ayodhya...Shows where priorities lie for the politicians when in power

developing a Nuclear deterrent was the most important thing at that point of time, Vajpayee did the right thing keeping national interest above personal and party interest, this is how a patriotic person should behave who truly loves his country

somnath wrote:^^^Arjun,

I wasnt justifying the content of what Digvijay Singh said, only laying down the context..

But really, what should concern the enlightened citizenry is not the soundbytes, but actual policy-making...The BJP ran a decade-long agitation taking off on a Congress-inspired mythological non-issue, and rode that wave to power..Did they do anything about it when they were in power? In their frst 13-day govt, ABV considered a nuke test, but not a bhavya mandir in ayodhya...Shows where priorities lie for the politicians when in power...Similarly, Digvijay Singh can say what he wants, but does that impact decision-making among real decision-makers? And Diggy raja is not even a policy-maker, even if he has delusions of the same..Just because he mouths these inanities, does it prevent the NIA from going after Madhani?

Ditto for the princeling...He can get vicarious pleasures out of the decision on Niyamgiri (which should have been done in the first place anyways), but he doesnt impact real policy in any way..Even the US ambassador didnt take him seriously, if you read the entire Wikileaks piece aroud the issue..

The inanities need to be laid bare, and the media here does that very well...But to conclude that just because Digvijay Singh said that Karkare was under threat from hindu groups suddenly India's stature goes down is stretching the point...India's international stature is a function of a single, and only a single factor, its economic heft...As long as that is in place, Diggy raja's soundbytes dont even enter discussions in board rooms and investor presentations...

There is however an internal security angle to such statements, as they can incite emotions...However to clamp down on Diggy raja (or Rahul Gandhi) alone will then not be enough, you would need to clamp down on a lot of politicians (tilak, tarazu aur talwar, inko maaro joote chaar - any less volatile? Used by BSP for 2 decades and more)...The only way to deal with it would be through an enlightened citizenry, and increasingly Indians, powered by the new-found economic confidence are looking through it...

JMT....

sum wrote:Wonder what more is left to see in the current term of UPA-II?

...
A 28-year-old self-styled godman who calls himself Anant Brahmachari and claims to be the "Dharam Bhai" of Malegaon blast accused Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur allegedly attempted suicide in south-east Delhi today alleging that he was being harassed by investigating agencies.

Anant allegedly consumed poison and was found unconscious inside his room at a guesthouse in Jangpura early on Wednesday afternoon, confirmed Delhi Police.

...
They said that Anant has told doctors that he was being harassed continuously by NIA officials. Top Delhi Police officers said they were unaware of any such claims. Sources said a note had been recovered from him in which he had alleged that he was depressed due to questioning by the investigating agencies in connection with his sister's alleged association with terrorist acts. Mishra neither denied nor confirmed this, simply saying it "was a matter of investigation."
...

Read more: Saffron terror leader to be booked for Samjhauta blast - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z1ACXAXtkY

Arjun wrote:it is also due to the soft power and values associated with India, that provides comfort to the largely Christian Western economies to outsource to the country. To put it slightly more crudely, in today's environment - a largely Muslim country could never have hoped to reach the same position even if Muslim nations somehow developed the knowledge and entrepreneurial strengths to compete; and conversely if India had been Christian (without affecting the quality of manpower and entrepreneurs) it would have been a larger industry.

somnath wrote:.
From a pure investor perspective, the bomb blast in the German Bakery in Pune is worrying, but something that can be (and has to be) lived with these days..But if street clashes of the sort that we saw recently on account of a statue, or the one around Bhandarkar institute a few years back become de rigeur, if these become everyday affairs, that becomes a more defining prblem over a decision to locate a dev centre in the city...

somnath wrote:This is an astounding claim, anecdotaly one that I dont encounter in my job (which is a cog in the global investment wheel), and doesnt get empirically borne out by data either to any professional (or amateur) analyst..Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia - three muslim countries, not "oil-cursed" - all three have per capita incomes higher than India's, and generally better human development indicators as well..As for international trade and investments, Malaysia and Indonesia have flourishing ties under ASEAN with the rest of the ASEAN bloc (which is buddhist, confucian and christian), and Turkey has massive linkages with Europe...And all these countries have enormous investor interest out of Europe and North America...Of course in terms of sheer absolute heft, India towers over most these days, but that doesnt mean that others arent doing well, and that somehow "muslim" countries cannot genetically become globally competitive...Similarly, the corollary, that somehow "christian" countries have better chances...If that were the case, Philippines, a devoutly catholic country, would have been the first and prime beneficiary of s/w outsourcing...Its got high literacy levels, better infrastructure than India, and located in a relatively peaceful neighbourhood...

putnanja wrote: So they desperately want to show that some hindus are behind terrorist attack and want to do an == . I guess the congress plenary session has put more pressure on the home ministry now to come out with terrorist links with RSS

The so-called East Asian currency crisis is still studied as a textbook case of not just "regional incompetence!!" but people still blush hot if it is suggested that pegging currencies at the behest of "investors" to some European currencies could have beena trigger

somnath wrote:^^^ 1 and 2 are ad oculos...I dont think that was the point that came across though..It seemed you were suggesting that whatever be the other merits, if a country is "muslim", it is not designed to suceed in the international sweepstakes...That clearly is untrue, thats all...

About 3, the image of a country cannot be spoiled by random statements by politicians..Image takes a lot to build, and it takes a lot to destroy as well..there is far too much going on everyday that reinforces the positives about India for the net result to turn negative because of a few politicians..

somnath wrote:Image takes a lot to build, and it takes a lot to destroy as well

NEW DELHI: It is now amply clear that the 2007 Samjhauta Express blasts were a handiwork of extremist Hindu elements and not that of a Pakistan-based or local Islamic terror outfit. The National Investigation Agency’s inquiry into the Malegaon blast has unravelled the ‘bomb-for-bomb’ theory of Hindu extremist groups that led them to target Pakistani citizens aboard the Samjhauta Express on February 18, 2007.

The questioning of Swami Aseemanand, arrested from Haridwar last month for links to the Malegaon blast conspiracy, has revealed that he was among the conspirators behind the Samjhauta train blasts. The NIA believes that the Samjhauta conspiracy was hatched following the terror blasts at Sankatmochan temple in Varanasi, with the aim of avenging attacks by Pakistan-backed terror groups on Hindu religious places.

A_Gupta wrote:I had thought that Headley had cleared up this case, pointing to the LeT:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 225773.cms

The recent controversy over a politician's remark on 'Hindu terror' and another gem of invoking visions of an India [ Images ]n Hitler [ Images ] need to be dismissed with contempt they deserve. The former American Ambassador to India, David Mulford's comment that Indian politicians can stoop to any level to garner votes is a ringing indictment of this tribe of politicians.

But such is the power of repetition of lies that there is a great danger of these becoming self-fulfilling prophesies and therefore need to be challenged. An even greater reason is that a politician in wilderness (and a former chief minister) has insinuated that (just like Pakistan) 'saffron' terror has infiltrated even the Indian armed forces. He approvingly quotes the example of a lone wolf rogue officer who is alleged to have got involved in terrorist acts. In the interest of national security, these wild assertions need to be challenged.

Terror threats that India faces:

As a multi-ethnic, religious and linguistic subcontinent, India faces many revolts backed by narrow ideologies. There is the separatist movement in Kashmir valley (not Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] but only the valley), Assam, Manipur and Nagaland. In addition there is an on going unrest in heartland of India where the Communist insurgents want to overthrow the state and usher in 'their' version of 'people's republic', popularly called Naxalites [ Images ]. All these movements indulge in use of terror tactics off and on.

In addition to the above, since last two years, a motley group of Hindu extremists have taken to 'retaliate' for the past acts of terror attributed to Islamist terror groups located in Pakistan and who receive some support from fringe element of Indian Muslims.

The groups like the Students Islamic Movement of India or its latest avatar, the Indian Mujahedeen, are essentially an extension of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Tayiba [ Images ].

A brief look at statistics shows that in the last five years the LeT-led combine has carried out ten major attacks in which over 625 Indians have been killed and over 3,000 have been wounded seriously. Equally startling is the fact that so far not a single terrorist involved in these activities has been punished. Most of the investigations have reached a dead end or the perpetrators have fled to Pakistan. The alleged saffron terror is linked to four incidents in which over 19 people have lost their lives and a few score have been wounded.

But even more telling is the fact that the LeT-led campaign against India is essentially a joint enterprise with Pakistan Army [ Images ] (through the Inter Services Intelligence). While in all other insurgencies including the one in Kashmir valley, there is an element of external support (The Naga rebels do receive Chinese help), the LeT-led campaign is unique in that it is a virtual proxy war launched by one state against the other by using the tactic of deniability.

The Late Krishna Menon, India's de facto foreign minister in the 1950s and early 1960s, was of the view that "Pakistan views partition as only a beginning. Her idea is to get a jumping off point to take the whole of India. Their minds work in this way -- that it was from the Mughals that the British took over. Now that the British have gone back, the Muslims must come back." (Breacher Michael, "India and World Politics: Krishna Menon's View of the World", Oxford, London [ Images ], 1968. page 171)

Even the former Pakistani dictator General Pervez Musharaf is on record to having admitting that even if Kashmir issue is resolved, relations with India would remain stormy.

The LeT terror campaign against India is thus backed by the power and resources of a state. To compare this with the acts of a crowd of motley Hindu extremists is like equating chalk with cheese.

Religious fundamentalism and terrorism: A tenuous link!

Even since Al Qaeda [ Images ] and Osama Bin Laden [ Images ] invoked religion to justify their terror attacks, the terrorism tag has been unfortunately put on the religion of Islam. A little introspection will show that the Al Qaeda's newly found belief in the Islamic cause is fake. Osama never tires of invoking the cause of Palestine (and now even Kashmir) to justify his actions. But wasn't the same Osama happily collaborating with the hated Americans through the decade of 1980's in Afghanistan? Was America then not supporting Israel?

The truth is that Osama's basic aim is to grab power in Saudi Arabia. He felt that he had an IoU from the Americans on this. But once the first Afghan war was over, the Americans apparently refused to oblige him. It is only then that he remembered the plight of Palestine/Kashmir.

A general study of 9/11 bombers or even the latest failed Time Square terrorist do not show much direct connection between religious fundamentalism and terrorism. None of these were typically religious people. An MIT study has also similarly shown that there no direct link between poverty and terrorism. Though undoubtedly, like the lone surviving terrorist of Mumbai [ Images ] attack did belong to a poor family, his motivations seem very clearly money!

The growth of religious fundamentalism can indeed provoke riots and disturb peace but by itself cannot lead to terrorism. It is true that riots or mob violence is bad, but it is a like a crime of passion, whereas terrorism is like a pre-meditated mass murder. It is necessary to clearly distinguish these two.

Terrorism [ Images ] that the world faces today is essentially a power struggle and proxy war to achieve this worldly aim. Religion is used only as a cloak to hide the true intentions, be it Osama or the LeT. Even the TTP (Tehrik-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan) is similarly out to grab power in that country.

It is unfortunate that the current political power struggle got the 'Islamist' tag because the terrorist's themselves invoked religious sanction for their acts by selectively quoting from the holy book.

Luckily for the Indian subcontinent, the fact that in Pakistan in last five years there have been over 42 attacks on mosques and over 530 worshippers have been killed while performing namaaz. In the entire period of 63 years these many attacks have not taken place in India. The Indians who fall into the LeT trap must look at this reality and honestly answer the question whether they are safe in India or Pakistan?

One is aware that the incidents of the Gujarat riots in 2002 will be evoked. But the fact is that in these riots (according to the Union home ministry) 800 people lost their lives. Besides this, 232 (mostly from the majority community) were killed in police firing! When one alludes to the ghost of Hitler and German genocide of Jews, one must ask a question, were any Germans killed by their police for attacking Jews? Our modern politicians seem to have not read much history but have surely studied Gobbles' quite thoroughly, and have succeeded in repeating a lie again and again to make it an established fact. This does not in any way condone partisan behaviour of the police or even inability of the government to control the violence quickly enough.

But the worst is the snide attempt to drag the armed forces into the controversy. One would like to remind these unworthies that the armed forces of India have always acted with utmost impartiality in these situations. If any one has doubt go and ask Kutubuddin Ansari, a tailor from Ahmedabad [ Images ], who told this author with tears in his eyes that it was the timely arrival of the army that saved him and his family.

By sowing doubts about the integrity of armed forces whose interest is this person serving?

Bangalore headquartered Oriental Software deployed their “intelligent” software solutions in a major city which has seen growing incidences of terror-linked activity. Police departments in other states are likely to follow suit integrating IT solutions to efficiently check criminal activity.

The firm’s predictive analytics solution, called Nostradamus, is capable of aiding enforcement agencies in crime investigation, detection and revealing crime patters and trends.

brihaspati wrote:Not all the East Asian currencies were pegged to the dollar

because you were trying to claim that Muslim countries in the region were so attractive for foreign investors because they provided "stable investment environment". If so why did not the investors show confidence in the Muslim countries of the region, when there were no obvious stability problem?

somnath wrote:

brihaspati wrote:Not all the East Asian currencies were pegged to the dollar

Which were the ccies pegged to FFR, GBP or DM, if I may?

because you were trying to claim that Muslim countries in the region were so attractive for foreign investors because they provided "stable investment environment". If so why did not the investors show confidence in the Muslim countries of the region, when there were no obvious stability problem?

You should really read a little less perfunctorily (or with a little more comprehension!)...I was responding to a claim that said that ceteris paribus (presence of skills, environment etc), a muslim country will never be successful in the global investment sweepstakes as India has been (or a christian country will be)..The point simply is that there are enough muslim countries that have "succeeded" around the same set of variables that India does..About the financial crisis, definitionally a financial crisis denotes a breakdown of stability in policy and polity, so obviously investors are chary of crises - true for Malaysia, true for Greece, true for UK, true for India and true for Thailand - really no denominational exceptions!