Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 05 Mar 2019 00:31

sudeepj wrote:
mmasand wrote:
200Kms??? This place is on a similar latitude as Jammu and further west of Sialkot. Highly unlikely....it was raining all day in the region and the grass is too well fed for winter.
Nowshera to Bhimber is 20-30 kms.. the chap also lists his profession as a 'news reporter' and has a motorcycle.. So..

Because Facebook said so...has a motorcycle

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 00:34

Mort Walker wrote:^^^look for anything that says CONTRACT or any number with a G starting in front of it.

Not good enough resolution.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 05 Mar 2019 00:41

it appear to be some dual mount rack with those two munitions

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Mar 2019 00:43

That picture was posted 5 days ago, its not a latest op.

Lets move on

nam · Post by **nam** » 05 Mar 2019 00:44

It was posted on 27th. We are trying to figure out if it is a PAF kit.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 00:45

mmasand wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Nowshera to Bhimber is 20-30 kms.. the chap also lists his profession as a 'news reporter' and has a motorcycle.. So..
Because Facebook said so...has a motorcycle

Uhh.. you made the claim that the place the debris was found was 200 kms from where the dog fight happened. Did you have any basis for that claim or you were just pulling something out of your musharraf?

The place where this chap lives, by his own admission, is Bhimber. Bhimber is about 10-20 miles from Nowshera sector where the dogfight happened. Go to google maps and measure the distance, once you have stopped rolling around on the ground.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 05 Mar 2019 00:47

I think Ramana asked me not to comment on politics: but I think India's biggest security threat is internal politics.

At any rate, heres a question for experts: Can India destroy Pak roads and fuel dumps with impunity while guaranteeing minimal corresponding damage on our side?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 00:50

banrjeer wrote:I think Ramana asked me not to comment on politics: but I think India's biggest security threat is internal politics.

At any rate, heres a question for experts: Can India destroy Pak roads and fuel dumps with impunity while guaranteeing minimal corresponding damage on our side?

Internal threats are over rated and will automatically fall in line once the govt. decides on a decisive path forward.

As for taking out fuel dumps, if we do anything, we also need to take out the standoff conventional weapons delivery platforms of Pakistan, i.e. PAF. If we do take out the Aviation Kerosene dumps, PAF may be able to mount a few desultory sorties, but I guess whatever remains will be conserved for a defensive posture trying to preserve airframes.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 05 Mar 2019 00:52

ranneel wrote:
ranneel wrote: There are 3 lines.
Second line has something like "PORT NO [number]"
Not able to read due to poor resolution at high zoom.
That is not PORT NO but PART NO [number]

First line: SFK ASSY
Second line: PART No/DOTR (something like DOTR and two letters after it)
Third line last word: D33M(somethinglike that) NO(or MO) F676( or 1676)

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 05 Mar 2019 00:52

Mort Walker wrote:^^^look for anything that says CONTRACT or any number with a G starting in front of it.

Here it is if any jingos want to analyse it.

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 01:00

Ardeshir wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^look for anything that says CONTRACT or any number with a G starting in front of it.
Here it is if any jingos want to analyse it.

Even their “journalists” are incompetent, can’t even take decent pictures of the most important part of their subject

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Mar 2019 01:02

Sensor Fuzed Munition Assembly.

I am unable to find anything which looks like this dual pod system. It doesn't seem to be very heavy, there's hardly any impact on soft ground. Or was the plane close to ground when it separated. In that case, there should be more debris nearby.
Almost everything about Sensor Fuzed Munition is pointing towards CBU-97 type of cluster bombs. IAF has a similar bomb but it's rounder, stubbier and filed with small bomblets and is meant for anti-vehicle role.

Upload date is 27th Feb and India lost no plane that day by own admission nor by paki claims. So it is more than likely that it's from a paki aircraft. If it weighs 320kg, then it's quite likely that it was on a fighter plane, not many drones can carry it.

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 01:13

jamwal wrote:Sensor Fuzed Munition Assembly.

I am unable to find anything which looks like this dual pod system. It doesn't seem to be very heavy, there's hardly any impact on soft ground.

This could be the smoking gun RE their downed F-16.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Mar 2019 01:18

Picture upload date is 27th Feb. Did they lose another aircraft before that ?

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 01:26

jamwal wrote:Picture upload date is 27th Feb. Did they lose another aircraft before that ?

If my timeline is correct - Balakot air strike was early morning of 26th Feb. Baki’s responded on 27th Feb at around 10AM IST. So, depending on the exact timing of the upload, it is possible the JDAM pictured was a part of the Baki 27th Feb response.

When the MiG-21 gave chase, all the F-16’s will have jettisoned everything (Drop Tanks/JDAM’s - everything), turned on afterburners and run.

So at a minimum this corroborates that F-16’s were a part of the operation.

TandavBrahmand · Post by **TandavBrahmand** » 05 Mar 2019 01:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYYEfH9cpxg

PM'seech in Gujarati at Jamnagar. Around 31:00 - he states that if we had Rafale, we wouldn't have lost any and theirs wouldn't have gotten away any. He was responding to those who had twisted his earlier statement to question the strike.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Mar 2019 01:35

It’s really bad the opposition is doubting the IAF, MoD and PM. This should be a time of unity, instead people like Kapil Sibil states that he wants to see the bodies. Really sick.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 01:42

khan wrote:
Ardeshir wrote:
Here it is if any jingos want to analyse it.
Even their “journalists” are incompetent, can’t even take decent pictures of the most important part of their subject

Its nothing but some kind of an EW pod, question is which pod. After 30 minutes of googling, could not find any thing. It could certainly be from our Mig21 as well..

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 05 Mar 2019 01:46

The way these scums are creating rumors, they were even implying that Pulwana was done by Doval. what prevents us from using some blogs/media partners to create a rumor that Sidhu discussed Pulwana planning with Bajwa on his trip based on message from Pappu?

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 01:52

sudeepj wrote:
khan wrote: Even their “journalists” are incompetent, can’t even take decent pictures of the most important part of their subject
Its nothing but some kind of an EW pod, question is which pod. After 30 minutes of googling, could not find any thing. It could certainly be from our Mig21 as well..

I think Jamwal is correct. This is a JDAM cluster munition. The acronym matches and if you look closely, the detached piece is part of a collection of two bombs. That stick in the middle connects the two bombs. The second bomb is visible on the far side - still attached to the stick thingy in the middle.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 01:55

sudeepj wrote:
khan wrote: Even their “journalists” are incompetent, can’t even take decent pictures of the most important part of their subject
Its nothing but some kind of an EW pod, question is which pod. After 30 minutes of googling, could not find any thing. It could certainly be from our Mig21 as well..

I am not an expert on this but could it be something like BLU-108 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... yuZUxS3Uww

nam · Post by **nam** » 05 Mar 2019 01:57

What is JDAM cluster munition? JDAM is a kit attached on to dumb bombs.

SFM is sensor fuzed munition. The only thing I can link this to American kit is the SFM word is probably originated and used by them.

What about the pylon? Is ever seem on F16s?

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 02:00

nam wrote:What is JDAM cluster munition? JDAM is a kit attached on to dumb bombs.

SFM is sensor fuzed munition. The only thing I can link this to American kit is the SFM word is probably originated and used by them.

What about the pylon? Is ever seem on F16s?

Yes, you are most likely correct - I am not an expert in this, so thank you for correcting me.

My point is those look a lot like two American smart bombs.

Added later: And if that is a pylon it is attached to, (if the picture is genuine and taken in Pakistan) that can only mean an F-16 is down - because nothing else Pakistan has will interface will American smart bombs.

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 05 Mar 2019 02:06

SFM ASSY can also mean Shop Floor Management, Americans like these acronyms.

See this Lockeed presentation Page 9, https://studylib.net/doc/8301428/lockhe ... g-sap-in-a

Where as for sensor fused weapon, I ve seen them use SFW and not SFM. Just a wild guess. So yes, I think its an American hardware.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 02:10

ranneel wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Its nothing but some kind of an EW pod, question is which pod. After 30 minutes of googling, could not find any thing. It could certainly be from our Mig21 as well..
I am not an expert on this but could it be something like BLU-108 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... yuZUxS3Uww

Also please to read under section:
"The BLU-108/B SFM (Sensor Fused Munition) is a special-purpose aerially dispensed anti-armour munition, which has been in production by Textron Systems since 1992. A BLU-108/B unit carries four independent Skeet anti-tank submunitions. After release from the dispenser, each BLU-108/B descends under a parachute to a pre-set altitude. Then a small rocket sends the BLU-108/B upwards and into a rapid spin, so that the Skeet warheads are released outwards. Each Skeet falls independently, scanning the ground with its IR sensor for the signature of a tank. When a target is detected, the Skeet detonates, firing an EFP (Explosively Formed Penetrator) directly downward, and a ring of fragments outwards (against soft targets in the vicinity). If no target is detected, the Skeet explodes immediately above the ground."
from here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=in
I still could be wrong though...

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 05 Mar 2019 02:13

UPrabhu wrote:SFM ASSY can also mean Shop Floor Management, Americans like these acronyms.

See this Lockeed presentation Page 9, https://studylib.net/doc/8301428/lockhe ... g-sap-in-a

Where as for sensor fused weapon, I ve seen them use SFW and not SFM. Just a wild guess. So yes, I think its an American hardware.

So am I wrong in saying this is from the downed F16?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Mar 2019 02:17

jamwal wrote:Sensor Fuzed Munition Assembly.

I am unable to find anything which looks like this dual pod system. It doesn't seem to be very heavy, there's hardly any impact on soft ground. Or was the plane close to ground when it separated. In that case, there should be more debris nearby.
Almost everything about Sensor Fuzed Munition is pointing towards CBU-97 type of cluster bombs. IAF has a similar bomb but it's rounder, stubbier and filed with small bomblets and is meant for anti-vehicle role.

Upload date is 27th Feb and India lost no plane that day by own admission nor by paki claims. So it is more than likely that it's from a paki aircraft. If it weighs 320kg, then it's quite likely that it was on a fighter plane, not many drones can carry it.

Does the kg marking suggest this is of European (or Chinese) rather than US manufacture?

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 02:22

ranneel wrote:
ranneel wrote: I am not an expert on this but could it be something like BLU-108 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... yuZUxS3Uww
Also please to read under section:
"The BLU-108/B SFM (Sensor Fused Munition) is a special-purpose aerially dispensed anti-armour munition, which has been in production by Textron Systems since 1992. A BLU-108/B unit carries four independent Skeet anti-tank submunitions. After release from the dispenser, each BLU-108/B descends under a parachute to a pre-set altitude. Then a small rocket sends the BLU-108/B upwards and into a rapid spin, so that the Skeet warheads are released outwards. Each Skeet falls independently, scanning the ground with its IR sensor for the signature of a tank. When a target is detected, the Skeet detonates, firing an EFP (Explosively Formed Penetrator) directly downward, and a ring of fragments outwards (against soft targets in the vicinity). If no target is detected, the Skeet explodes immediately above the ground."
from here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=in
I still could be wrong though...

Okay, my hypothesis is what we see could be a BLU-108 contained in SUU-20/A like rocket pod. Check the curved frontal portion of SUU-20/A in the same website.It matches with the first image's curved frontal.
Check the same website for references on the color band on the SFM which is common to these type of missiles and seen on the missile.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 02:25

Here is another link of WCo Abhinandana being taken away in by PakMil. Whats notable is the excited chatter in the mob surrounding him '..doosra banda pakdo.. doosra banda pakdo..' Indicating there were two ejections and there was indeed a second pilot.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1965783893550569

Posting only for the record and perhaps some one can translate the Punjabi portions of the conversation.

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 02:27

A gentle reminder to our Baki lurkers, it is prime time for the IAF

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Mar 2019 02:40

Ardeshir wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^look for anything that says CONTRACT or any number with a G starting in front of it.
Here it is if any jingos want to analyse it.

er... That is most definitely not winter vegetation in Kashmir, is it? New shoots?
That image is taken in late Spring/ summer.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Mar 2019 02:41

And the bare earth is pretty dry. Check weather in that area at the time.
Gee! Ppl, the "RE" in SDRE stands for Rice Eating. This is what comes of eating too much chicken and goat. You get brains like the Pakis.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 02:47

UlanBatori wrote:And the bare earth is pretty dry. Check weather in that area at the time.

https://en.climate-data.org/asia/pakist ... er-964438/

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Mar 2019 02:54

This is not Kashmir, but Jammu. Even this forum confuses the places. IT should be Jammu instead of kashmir in title of other thread too. This region never gets snow. You two are just over analysing.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 02:58

^^ Saar, why blame me, I just posted the link for the gent to verify idle speculation that he could have done by 2 minutes of googling before posting.. :-( Another person posted nowshera to bhimber was 200 km apart. Right now there is 0 noise filter on posts.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 05 Mar 2019 02:59

Sorry but it could also just be some farm equipment due to surprisingly good shape of all the components. SFM ASSY could be some kind of solar assembly? Just offering an alternate assessment

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Mar 2019 03:00

The place is like 33 to 34 deg. N. Lows at night routinely into 40s F. Not v. different from Yoo Ess southeast/ Tennessee. That thriving low vegetation is summer, no 2 ways about it. Also there was a pretty nasty snowstorm the week b4 that.
Moral: U guys have been duped. Again. Sorree onlee.
See vegetation in "South Kashmir" OK a few miles north. But typical winter vegetation: brown grass, some scraggly weeds. Pine trees. No elaborate vegetable gardens, vines and fresh shoots of grain.

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 03:01

There is a strange “Jordan Aviation” plane over Baki air-space R55541/JAV5541. Wikipedia says they do charters/wet-lease.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 05 Mar 2019 03:02

one paki jurno on teetar

Murtaza Solangi
‏

@murtazasolangi
8h8 hours ago
More
It really doesn’t matter if IAF killed 250 or 350 or a pine tree and a crow on 25th. The main point is that they were able to come deep into our heartland and went back without any loss at that time and no country except Turkey stood with us.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Mar 2019 03:05

"No country except Turkey": Are they referring to the nation of Erdoganstan, or the flight characteristics of their own Air Fauj? What did Turkey say to make them so happy?