Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 04 Oct 2010 07:41

Good review Anujan. One thing I'll add is a somewhat funny note. Woodward describes current US COAS Adm. Mullen as seeking an "impartial" view on how to handle TSPA. The guy appointed by Obama, Bruce Reidel, basically tells Mullen that Kayani is a liar and TSPA is 100% committed to its jihadi proxies. Mullen then says to Woodward something like "These old CIA guys are too cynical and too negative on TSPA". Mullen then goes forward and seeks a "second opinion" from fellow Admiral (retd) Dennis Blair, then chief of intel, also a friend and a Navy senior of Mullen. Woodward quotes Mullen as complaining to Blair about how some ex-CIA guys are so anti-TSP because of their years of bad-faith dealings with ISI. Mullen tells Blair, something like "Denny, I cannot trust these CIA guys to give me an unbiased opinion of TSP"

Woodward ends the section with one sentence. "Blair told Mullen that Reidel has it just about right" (on TSP)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Oct 2010 08:40

A_Gupta wrote:RamaY, in this truly I'm neither killing nor being killed. I am merely the Observer.

A_Guptaji,

You do not have the authority to denounce karma on the basis of sorrow/realization

Yuddhaya Krita Nischaya!

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 04 Oct 2010 08:46

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 680684.cms

NEW DELHI: Veteran filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt will quiz the movers and shakers of Islamabad as the host of an upcoming Pakistani talk show, "Straight Talk With Mahesh Bhatt".

The show will see the National Award-winning filmmaker interview the likes of Pervez Musharraf, Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif, said the show's producer Sevy Ali.

"I have known Mahesh for long and we have worked together on many occasions. He has visited the country many times and is well acquainted with the situation here and is therefore perfect for the job," Ali, a British journalist of Pakistani origins, said.

Ali has earlier produced some of Bhatt's films including "Nazar", Rahul Bose starrer "White Noise" and English film "The Rain has Stopped" that went on to win two awards at the British film festival.

"Mahesh happens to be a part of one of the most talked about film industry and has the ability to ask the most straight forward and honest questions. Besides, he is also liked and revered by most Pakistanis," Ali added.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Oct 2010 08:52

Anujan, ditto R-man.

But I don't mean to belittle your effort at reading the book in anyway, but my experience of US media elites is so extensive, that just by listening to excerpts, I can tell what is in there. Of course, like rep Vs dem issues, if one is an insider who wants some gory details like whose back who scratched, whose balls who pinhed etc, I am sure the book has a lot of juicy details.

But from an India POV, it is an established ipso facto that US has bought the TSP line that its terror is justified, and US must "fix" India TSP "relations", a euphemism that TSP must be rewarded. Its just as sickening as it gets. Fundamental to this US assumption is that India has taken a lot, it can absorb a lot more and yet "survive". India's weaknesses and handicaps are being exploited to the hilt.

One thing I cannot predict just yet is what will be the utlimate denounement of "dealing with India by pretending not to deal with India". There are enough 5th columnists in India starting at the highest levels of India's ruling elite that will help US in maintaining this pretense.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 04 Oct 2010 08:53

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/world ... an.html?hp

...third attack on NATO supplies in Pakistan.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Armed militants attacked and set fire to at least 20 parked tanker trucks carrying fuel for NATO and American troops in Afghanistan on Monday, the police said. It was the third such strike in Pakistan since Friday.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 04 Oct 2010 08:59

Woodward's book confirms that TSP has been receiving $2 billion/year for supporting the ISAF coalition since 9/11/2001. This doesn't include all the other goodies unkil has been giving them, yet their macroeconomic situation is hopeless.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 04 Oct 2010 09:29

RamaY wrote:You do not have the authority to denounce karma on the basis of sorrow/realization

Boss garu, if I may ask you, what is this on a Paki thread?? If you do want to quote BG in this context, read up 2:19 *context better* so you know if we/you have all the supporting facts to apply that. I, ofcourse, want to seek your telugu verison but hope you will not quote Ghantasala. later in a different thread and different context.

let the paki business go on and keep the scriptures, mirrors, shirts and flys etc away.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Oct 2010 09:32

3 killed, 20 NATO tankers set ablaze in Islamabad

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Oct 2010 10:01

Mort Walker wrote:Woodward's book confirms that TSP has been receiving $2 billion/year for supporting the ISAF coalition since 9/11/2001. This doesn't include all the other goodies unkil has been giving them, yet their macroeconomic situation is hopeless.

That is $20 B in 10 years. Add another 1.5B per year. The total is $35B for 10 years.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 04 Oct 2010 10:02

But in that part of the world, people often ran towards automatic weapons fire and explosions..to see what was happening

Reminds me of Major Butt (retd) article.

Pakistan discovers 2 billion tonnes of coal reserve

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Oct 2010 10:18

There is also this fear in US that an all out stamping out the Taliban will lead to the TSP fundamentalists taking over the TSP in a rage. So they go lite on Talibans preserving the 'good' Taliban.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Oct 2010 10:27

ramana wrote:There is also this fear in US that an all out stamping out the Taliban will lead to the TSP fundamentalists taking over the TSP in a rage. So they go lite on Talibans preserving the 'good' Taliban.

There is fear and there is some sense of responsibility that The Pakistanis should be given a chance on democracy.
But deep inside they know that it is dying and they need to take some painful action. They are terrified of the repercussions and the pain of the medicine. It is going to tear down the world they had created in the last 40 years.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 04 Oct 2010 10:36

Dilbu on 01/10/2010 wrote:Lalmulla I predict another round of burnings within 7 days.

and...

shravan wrote:3 killed, 20 NATO tankers set ablaze in Islamabad

BRF ahead of the curve onlee.

Jokes apart, this happened in Isloo?

Hmm..

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Oct 2010 10:39

Dilbu wrote:Jokes apart, this happened in Isloo? Hmm..

Magically, coincidentally, absolutely by chance, the action of the "non-state actors" seem to be aligned with the wrath of the Paki army....

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Oct 2010 10:47

Anindya wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 680684.cms

NEW DELHI: Veteran filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt will quiz the movers and shakers of Islamabad as the host of an upcoming Pakistani talk show, "Straight Talk With Mahesh Bhatt".

A clever way to let an Indian denounce India in the Pakistani media in the garb of conducting a talk show.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 04 Oct 2010 10:48

Rangudu wrote:Good review Anujan. One thing I'll add is a somewhat funny note. Woodward describes current US COAS Adm. Mullen as seeking an "impartial" view on how to handle TSPA. The guy appointed by Obama, Bruce Reidel, basically tells Mullen that Kayani is a liar and TSPA is 100% committed to its jihadi proxies. Mullen then says to Woodward something like "These old CIA guys are too cynical and too negative on TSPA". Mullen then goes forward and seeks a "second opinion" from fellow Admiral (retd) Dennis Blair, then chief of intel, also a friend and a Navy senior of Mullen. Woodward quotes Mullen as complaining to Blair about how some ex-CIA guys are so anti-TSP because of their years of bad-faith dealings with ISI. Mullen tells Blair, something like "Denny, I cannot trust these CIA guys to give me an unbiased opinion of TSP"

Woodward ends the section with one sentence. "Blair told Mullen that Reidel has it just about right" (on TSP)

Rubbish! from mullen and typical psy-ops from goras.The ex-CIA guys are probably most palsy with ISI, nice TFTA terrorists with whom you share a drink after a 'hard' day unlike the prickly yindoo types.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 04 Oct 2010 10:51

An Indian not many in India care about.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Oct 2010 11:09

Anujan wrote:
I see three key goals. One protecting the US homeland...two, concern about Pakistan's nuclear weapons...third goal about Pakistan-India relationships

This is something we must internalize. There is no mention of Pakistani terrorism. 'Protecting US homeland' means disrupting terrorist activities to that extent only, and rightly so too from a US viewpoint. The US would not therefore be compelled or be even under obligation to intercede with Pakistan on behalf of India, again rightly so. India's concerns of Pakistan's state & non-state actors may elicit varying response from the US from time to time according to how it perceives threat to itself from these players or how much of their help is needed by the GotUS in pursuit of its own goals.

The US is certainly using every trick to deal with India in the way it wants. When Holbrooke's job description was announced, it included India too and was withdrawn only under Indian protest. Everyone knew that such a withdrawal was cosmetic. Holbrooke's assertions therefore should come as no surprise. Recent reports about Kashmir for UNSC seat could not be mere rumours.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 04 Oct 2010 11:59

I'm unable to find that particular picture which depics the Unkil-TSP-TSPA-ISI-Taliban nexus. Could someone please help me with it.

vic · Post by **vic** » 04 Oct 2010 12:01

(3) Biden plan of counterterrorism+: 2 bases in Afghanistan, small elite force with significant mobility to strike anywhere at short notice, and round the clock aerial surveillance. In short, making life "Just about difficult" for Al Qaeda to not use Afghanistan and go elsewhere.

I like this approach as it will end major reason for baksheesh to Bakistan

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Oct 2010 12:02

NIhat,

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-ma ... -truth.jpg

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 04 Oct 2010 12:28

http://www.samaa.tv/News26152-Antimissi ... akzai.aspx

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has installed a missile defense system along the Pak-Afghan border to stop cross-border incursions in the country’s tribal areas.

This was revealed by MNA Munir Orakzai while speaking on SAMAA's program, 'Mohaaz'
... snip ...

“Now no helicopter will be able to escape after entering Pakistani territory,” he claimed

My question is: Is this all for show to keep local abduls happy or are they actually dumb enough to try to shoot down a US helicopter?

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 04 Oct 2010 12:41

ArmenT wrote:http://www.samaa.tv/News26152-Antimissi ... akzai.aspx
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has installed a missile defense system along the Pak-Afghan border to stop cross-border incursions in the country’s tribal areas.

This was revealed by MNA Munir Orakzai while speaking on SAMAA's program, 'Mohaaz'
... snip ...

“Now no helicopter will be able to escape after entering Pakistani territory,” he claimed
My question is: Is this all for show to keep local abduls happy or are they actually dumb enough to try to shoot down a US helicopter?

They fully realize what would be in-store for them if they try such antics.ISAF has made it very clear earlier last week that if NATO aircrafts come under fire, they will engage and retaliate.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 04 Oct 2010 12:44

vic wrote:
(3) Biden plan of counterterrorism+: 2 bases in Afghanistan, small elite force with significant mobility to strike anywhere at short notice, and round the clock aerial surveillance. In short, making life "Just about difficult" for Al Qaeda to not use Afghanistan and go elsewhere.
I like this approach as it will end major reason for baksheesh to Bakistan

That will make keedas shift their base entirely into TSP. So any further military action against them will have to be taken deep into their territory. TSP will do everything it can to stop this from happening.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 04 Oct 2010 13:53

SSridhar wrote: This is something we must internalize. There is no mention of Pakistani terrorism. 'Protecting US homeland' means disrupting terrorist activities to that extent only, and rightly so too from a US viewpoint. The US would not therefore be compelled or be even under obligation to intercede with Pakistan on behalf of India, again rightly so. India's concerns of Pakistan's state & non-state actors may elicit varying response from the US from time to time according to how it perceives threat to itself from these players or how much of their help is needed by the GotUS in pursuit of its own goals.

The US is certainly using every trick to deal with India in the way it wants. When Holbrooke's job description was announced, it included India too and was withdrawn only under Indian protest. Everyone knew that such a withdrawal was cosmetic. Holbrooke's assertions therefore should come as no surprise. Recent reports about Kashmir for UNSC seat could not be mere rumours.

I have completed reading Bob Woodward's book. My conclusions:

1. Obama is not pro-India. He is either pro-Paki or ambivalent.

2. They all "understand" Paaki attitudes. They are willing to "overlook" Paaki designs w.r.t. J&K.

3. Not all members of military like ISI's activities. For example, Admiral Dennis Blair wanted to get tough with Paakis. But others don't agree with him.

4. No one likes Holbrooke.

4a. Recall Holbrooke's comment linking Siachen and global warming. He wants to "solve" J&K and get a prize in Sweden.

5. Americans can't stay in Afghanistan due to (a) Continued casualties (b) $50 billion per year expenditure. So they want to convert it to a Cashmere problem and force India to concede something and ask Paakis to fight.

6. America will start leaving in 2011-12.

7. US Military and Obama don't trust each other.

8. US Military wants to fight a long war. No support from the civilians or the public.

9. Everyone knows that the biggest problem is in Pakistan.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Oct 2010 14:35

Taliban vow more attacks on NATO supplies

A senior Pakistani intelligence official said there may be up to 20 Britons in tribal areas in the northwest training with militants, but that there was scant information on them.

"This is a concern to us, yes," the official said. "We have very limited ability to look into North Waziristan and South Waziristan. Primarily because more than 50 of our sources have been ceremonially butchered."

"At one time, it (the area) was like a black hole to us." Now, the official said, Pakistan relies primarily on electronic intercepts and eavesdropping to gather intelligence on militants in the area. AGENCIES

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Oct 2010 15:24

http://news.in.msn.com/international/ar ... id=4437677

Pak police seize stolen military equipment, arrest six

Islamabad, Oct 3 (PTI) Pakistani police have seized a large quantity of military equipment stolen from NATO supply convoys during raids near the federal capital and arrested six persons, a spokesman said today.

Among the equipment seized from several buildings at Tarnol on the outskirts of Islamabad during raids on Friday and Saturday were three vehicles, spares and accessories for helicopters including rotor blades, wireless sets, electric motors, generators and uniforms.

A police spokesman said the raids were conducted after DIG (Operations) Bin Yamin was told by an informer that a large quantity of equipment stolen from NATO convoys was being kept in an abandoned factory in Tarnol owned by one Farooquddin.

A special police team raided the factory and arrested Farooquddin, Ismail Khan and Muhammad Ayub.

After the arrested persons were questioned, police nabbed Saleem Abbas, Awanuddin and Muhammad Chanvez.

The spokesman said the seized items were worth millions of rupees.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Oct 2010 15:26

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article ... 686223.php

The new information about the FBI's mysterious informant, Shahed "Malik" Hussain, who owns and operates a motel near Saratoga Springs, surfaced when Hussain testified over the past month during the trial of four Newburgh men accused of plots to blow up to a pair of Bronx synagogues and fire missiles at military planes.

...

According to published reports on the trial in the Newburgh case, which is scheduled for closing arguments this week, Hussain disclosed on the witness stand that he was arrested twice in Pakistan for a murder he said he didn't commit before emigrating to the United States in 1994. He testified that his father bribed police to let him go following a third arrest.

Federal prosecutors in Albany did not disclose that information to the attorneys for Aref and Hossain, who were convicted of terrorism-related charges in an FBI sting aided by Hussain. But it's unclear the extent of the government's knowledge of Hussain four years ago, and many records in the case remain sealed.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Oct 2010 15:36

Not mourning the death of Dr. Farooq Khan. If it wasn't Pakistan, I might think he is being sarcastic.

http://jawwad.weblog.com/dr-mohammed-fa ... this-time/

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Oct 2010 16:30

Contradictions in Pak-US ties - Edit in DT

This incident reveals the logic of the contradictions in the relationship between Pakistan and the US in the war on terror like never before. Surprisingly, it has taken so long for this to become so obvious. So far, the US and NATO were exercising restraint and quietly nudging Pakistan’s military establishment closer to their position. Perhaps the point has been reached where they feel that this approach has run its course, as Pakistan is continuing with its dual policy towards the Taliban. The Afghan Taliban are freely using Pakistan’s soil to launch attacks on NATO forces in Afghanistan even as the Pakistan army is engaged in operations against the Pakistani Taliban. The US is now trying to paper over the revelation of deep fissures, because at this moment, the two countries are in a tight embrace and need each other’s help. . . . It {Pakistan} should, however, revisit its three-decades old policy of using jihadi proxies for intervention in Afghanistan, which is now proving counter-productive. That is the only option available to Pakistan. Our dependence on US goodwill does not allow us adventurism. If Pakistan’s insists on its dual policy towards the Taliban, it cannot expect the US not to violate its territory to take out hostile elements on Pakistan’s soil.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Oct 2010 17:05

H&D again!

Pak lifters threaten to quit CWG over flag row, stopped

Pakistan's weightlifters threatened to pull out of the Delhi Commonwealth Games after a showdown with their contingent leader over carrying the national flag at last night's opening ceremony but trouble was averted when officials sorted out the "misunderstanding".

Weightlifting coach Sheikh Rashid said his wards felt slighted and did not wish to compete in the event.

Rashid had told Dawn that there had been a verbal altercation between the weightlifters and Shah over the issue. Shah had refused to hand over the national flag and led the contingent at the opening ceremony

The coach said that the players participated in the opening ceremony just for national dignity

Now that the "Dignity" issue has been settled in full public view, what about "Honor"? Let the final medals tally take care of that. Then the ultimate H&D count will be measured in whether the contingenct flies back to pakiland in business class or coach (or walk through Wagah gates).

Added later: The Grab!! Watch their faces.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 04 Oct 2010 19:07

A_Gupta wrote:Not mourning the death of Dr. Farooq Khan. If it wasn't Pakistan, I might think he is being sarcastic.

http://jawwad.weblog.com/dr-mohammed-fa ... this-time/

Oh my god...believe me, even after reading your warning, I read this article and first thought he was being sarcastic. I had to read it again to realise he is being honest about his opinion. I have been calling Pakbarians (and their Saudi masters) barbaric animals in this thread for long and now I realise how wrong I have been....I owe a thousand, a million apologies to every animal born or dead or unborn...sorry my dear tigers, lions, pigs, dogs, cats and all other animals....you are not to be insulted hereafter by comparing you with a Paki.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 04 Oct 2010 19:21

Guys let us cut some slack for the barbarian (sorry NOT an animal) that snatched the flag...after all the entire country has been brought up with wet dreams of hoisting the green flag in Delhi...only the place was not destined to be Red Fort but the CWG ceremony....but that is a matter of minor detail...so no wonder they snatched the opportunity.....

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Oct 2010 20:08

North Waziristan: US Drone fires two missiles in Mir Ali area, 4 people killed in drone strike.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Oct 2010 20:30

Suppiah wrote:Guys let us cut some slack for the barbarian (sorry NOT an animal) that snatched the flag...after all the entire country has been brought up with wet dreams of hoisting the green flag in Delhi...only the place was not destined to be Red Fort but the CWG ceremony....but that is a matter of minor detail...so no wonder they snatched the opportunity.....

judging by the reports of paqui mards not being able to resist mijjile maalish in the presence of PYT's, these boys must have been in shiny rocket heaven at the opening ceremony, what with all those svelte name carrier babeloge... no wonder they had to grab hold of the big pole and brandish it around the jawahar LAL nehru Fort/Stadium

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Oct 2010 20:41

Dilbu wrote:
vic wrote: (3) Biden plan of counterterrorism+: 2 bases in Afghanistan, small elite force with significant mobility to strike anywhere at short notice, and round the clock aerial surveillance. In short, making life "Just about difficult" for Al Qaeda to not use Afghanistan and go elsewhere.
I like this approach as it will end major reason for baksheesh to Bakistan
That will make keedas shift their base entirely into TSP. So any further military action against them will have to be taken deep into their territory. TSP will do everything it can to stop this from happening.

It doesn't stop Paki terrorism against India. I guess India too should setup up a couple of bases in Afghanistan to counter AQ/TSP threat.

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 Oct 2010 20:43

Don't blame the pakbarians for making a pass at PYT. Its all their officials fault. They coudnt find any women athletes in pakiland for these games.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Oct 2010 21:07

^^^ which is amazing considering they have women's hockey and even swimming athletes who have been definitely featured in the media... talibanisation is well under way folks... perhaps the muslim female competitors from malaysia, brunei and other places will now be fatwah'ed by the mijjilemen?

vic · Post by **vic** » 04 Oct 2010 21:43

Dilbu wrote:
vic wrote:(3) Biden plan of counterterrorism+: 2 bases in Afghanistan, small elite force with significant mobility to strike anywhere at short notice, and round the clock aerial surveillance. In short, making life "Just about difficult" for Al Qaeda to not use Afghanistan and go elsewhere.
I like this approach as it will end major reason for baksheesh to Bakistan
That will make keedas shift their base entirely into TSP. So any further military action against them will have to be taken deep into their territory. TSP will do everything it can to stop this from happening.

As US will not need the corridor through Pakistan to supply its forces, therefore it will have more free hand to drone ISI bases in Pigistan. The drones can take off from Afghanistan or even Aircraft carriers. The limited resources required in Afghanistan can be airlifted or moved through central asia

vic · Post by **vic** » 04 Oct 2010 21:45

I think we can easily say that Sept has turned into Drone a day for Pakis. The point is whether US attacks have stuck to traditional areas or they have ventured deeper. Some informed BRite may please comment?