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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 04:06
by krisna
^^^^
Image
string of pearls

will work on it soon.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 05:36
by ramana
NV Subramanian writes what we articulate:

http://www.newsinsight.net/archivedebat ... recno=2293
Free fall

The Manmohan Singh government has outsourced internal political mediation to the United States, says N.V.Subramanian.

9 May 2012: Whilst the United States cannot be faulted for trying to get close to powerful non-Congress chief ministers like Mamata Bannerjee, J.Jayalalithaa, Nitish Kumar and Naveen Patnaik, it is moving into territories that rightfully belong to the Central government. And for this, the Manmohan Singh government must be squarely blamed.

The Congress party is not reconciled to coalition politics or the emergence of chief ministers who are determined to safeguard the rights and powers of states. Indeed, one of its own chief ministers, Tarun Gogoi of Assam, objected to the National Counter-Terrorism Centre in its present form. In the matter of multi-brand retail FDI too, the Centre did not take states into confidence. And as for Teesta water-sharing with Bangladesh, Manmohan Singh approved it without obtaining the concurrence of Mamata, who dropped out of his Dacca visit embarrassing him.

Constitutionalists may insist India is a unitary state. But coalition politics of the past two decades and more has strengthened Indian federalism. The two mainstream parties, the Congress and BJP, are struggling with eroding bases, and the 2014 general elections may deliver a fractured verdict, one reason, apparently, for the United States' frenzied diplomacy with Mamata, Jayalalithaa & Co. But it also indicates an abdication of Central responsibility in every way, which first came to light during the heated national debate on the Indo-US nuclear deal.

The CPI-M/ Left were then supporting UPA-1. Prakash Karat was adamantly opposed to the nuclear deal. He had his reasons, and they were valid. Karat can be inflexible, so the Centre was trying to get around him by wooing the West Bengal unit of the party and its government, fronted in Delhi by the likes of Sitaram Yechuri. At some point, the previous George Bush administration wished to be educated about the nature of opposition to the deal, and the Manmohan Singh government pointed accusing fingers at the BJP and CPI-M. The United States went on frenetically to engage both parties.

The point is, how could the Centre perversely seek the passage of the nuclear deal by encouraging the intervention and mediation of a foreign power in India's internal affairs? There is more than subtle difference between a foreign power courting all shades of Indian public opinion on its own and the Central government actively inciting it to do so. Once the United States got into the game, China followed suit, raising hackles within government. If the Chinese outreach was objectionable, how could America's forward diplomacy be condoned?

The same thing has happened in different form with the US engagement of Mamata and others, but particularly the West Bengal CM. Prior to her meeting with Mamata, the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, said she would raise both Teesta water-sharing and multi-brand retail FDI with the chief minister. Clinton cannot bamboozle and browbeat a chief minister on issues that carry enormous Indian sensitivities. But what encouraged Clinton in that direction? The free pass given by the Centre, since the nuclear deal, to raise any and all matters, sensitive and otherwise, with opposition leaders and chief ministers if it helped the government.

The American mission in Calcutta and the media gave their own spin on the Mamata-Clinton meeting, forcing the West Bengal CM to issue denials. She said neither multi-brand retail nor Teesta were discussed with Clinton. Mamata is smart. She won't be bowled over by a visiting American secretary of state. But surely, the Centre could have saved her embarrassment by drawing parameters of the Clinton-Mamata meeting in advance, and informing the American side about it. And yet, because it has unlearnt the art of politics, and treats non-Congress leaders as enemies, the Manmohan Singh government has become dependent on outside powers like the United States to resolve internal differences.

What a fall for India.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 06:25
by Prem
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 4339.story
Don't forget India's nukes
By Jaane Herr man
Washington's oddly relaxed approach to India's nuclear program goes back to 2008, when Congress approved the U.S.-India Civil Nuclear Cooperation Agreement. Under it, India agreed to separate its military and civil nuclear facilities and to place the latter under International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards in exchange for a U.S. guarantee to work toward full civil nuclear cooperation with New Delhi. Today India is still the only country to have been accommodated in this way since the establishment of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty in 1968.In 2008, as a member of the House who sat on all of the major security committees, I was concerned about the quiet acceptance of India's nuclear activities that the agreement represented. I was one of 59 representatives who opposed it. Four years later, India's missile test leaves me even more troubled by Washington's tacit acceptance of New Delhi's nuclear program.The timing of the launch was puzzling to say the least. It came just one week afterNorth Korea'sfailed missile test, which cost that country 240,000 metric tons of food aid — estimated to be worth $200 million — that Washington had promised in February.
India has an explicitly stated no-first-use policy and is widely viewed as a U.S. security ally. But that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to India's actions. It was noticed around the world that Washington reacted so strongly against one missile test in the region while essentially turning a blind eye to another. Pakistan quickly followed with its own missile test and is believed to be expanding its already large nuclear arsenal at a time when its government is fragile and U.S.-Pakistan relations are at a low point.In Tokyo last month, an Indian policymaker told me there was nothing significant about the timing of India's missile test — that New Delhi had been planning it for a long time. It may be that India, and now Pakistan, thinks such conduct, the byproduct of a long-strained relationship, will not affect events outside of their sandbox. This myopic view is dangerous.In recent weeks, the word "wary" appeared in many reports about New Delhi's missile launch. "India, wary of Beijing, tests nuclear-capable missile," one headline read. Other articles noted that "China and Pakistan reacted warily" and that the U.S. had issued a "wary" endorsement.But "wary" may not be wise. Just as the killing of Kadafi in Libya may teach that giving up weapons of mass destruction makes you vulnerable, so these tests — without serious responses — may also spur reckless conduct. Wisdom counsels zero tolerance
.

Jane Harman is director, president and CEO of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. She was a nine-term congresswoman from California and the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee from 2002 to '06.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 07:22
by Prem
India Vows Cuts in Iranian-Oil Imports as Clinton Visits

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-0 ... ports.html
India will curtail its imports of Iranian oil by 20 percent, officials said, as U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton held talks in New Delhi to enlist India’s help with sanctions aimed at pressuring Iran over its nuclear program.Asia’s third-biggest oil importer will cut purchases of crude from Iran to 14 million tons from 17.5 million tons in the 12 months ending March 31, according to two Indian diplomats and two refinery officials who asked not to be identified because they weren’t authorized to speak publicly. The officials said Iranian crude would account for 7 percent of India’s imports in fiscal year 2013, down from 10 percent currently.
India is “certainly working toward lowering their purchase of Iranian oil” and “we hope they will do even more,” Clinton told a gathering of students and civic leaders in the eastern Indian city of Kolkata yesterday, before flying to New Delhi for government meetings. The U.S. believes that there is sufficient production from Saudi Arabia, Iraq and other Persian Gulf nations for Iran’s customers to find alternate suppliers, she said.

In their meetings, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon and Clinton agreed that Iran must fulfill its United Nations obligations to abandon any possible military dimensions of its nuclear program, according to a State Department official present at the talks who spoke on condition of anonymity. While India has abided by several rounds of UN sanctions on Iran, it has publicly criticized unilateral American sanctions as an infringement on its sovereignty. U.S. and Indian officials say that while Singh’s administration doesn’t want to isolate Iran, an important trading partner and a route for India into Afghanistan, the government in New Delhi is quietly cooperating with oil sanctions and seeking an exemption from the U.S. penalties on financial transactions with Iran


Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 07:36
by Roperia
Must watch! A very powerful panel consisting of Pramit Pal Chaudhuri - member of Indian government’s National Security Advisory Board, Nirupama Rao - Ambassador of India to United States of America etc.

Video: The Last Word: How significant are Hillary's comments about Hafiz

Interesting that Pramit Pal Chaudhuri also quotes Bruce Riedel that documents obtained from Abbotabad raid suggest that OBL was shown the recce done by Headley via hafiz 'pig' saeed.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 09:39
by vera_k
And yet, because it has unlearnt the art of politics, and treats non-Congress leaders as enemies, the Manmohan Singh government has become dependent on outside powers like the United States to resolve internal differences.
Maybe the EU model is best. A couple of hundred districts should apply for UN membership.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 11:30
by merlin
shyamd wrote:No no MMS Sell out onleeee....

Anyway, still US has to answer for Headley amongst other issues.
Baccha, show me the money. IOW show me some action beyond blah, blah, blah, blah.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 12:22
by shyamd
Iran, nuclear liability... Says in the article. Funny thing is US thinks we cheated them with this nuclear liability law and MRCA. we are saying they cheated us Over Headley and fell short on their commitments.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 12:59
by Lalmohan
US definitely thinks they were short changed on the nuke deal, and are claiming that other countries provide governmental backup to their companies.
would it not be easier for the US to financially guarantee its own companies rather than coerce a democratic country to change its laws?
in the context of which, didn't understand the reports of westinghouse setting up plants in Gujarat

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 19:31
by ramana
Jhujar wrote:http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 4339.story
Don't forget India's nukes
By Jaane Herr man
Washington's oddly relaxed approach to India's nuclear program goes back to 2008, when Congress approved the U.S.-India Civil Nuclear Cooperation Agreement. Under it, India agreed to separate its military and civil nuclear facilities and to place the latter under International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards in exchange for a U.S. guarantee to work toward full civil nuclear cooperation with New Delhi. Today India is still the only country to have been accommodated in this way since the establishment of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty in 1968.In 2008, as a member of the House who sat on all of the major security committees, I was concerned about the quiet acceptance of India's nuclear activities that the agreement represented. I was one of 59 representatives who opposed it. Four years later, India's missile test leaves me even more troubled by Washington's tacit acceptance of New Delhi's nuclear program.The timing of the launch was puzzling to say the least. It came just one week afterNorth Korea's failed missile test, which cost that country 240,000 metric tons of food aid — estimated to be worth $200 million — that Washington had promised in February.
India has an explicitly stated no-first-use policy and is widely viewed as a U.S. security ally. But that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to India's actions. It was noticed around the world that Washington reacted so strongly against one missile test in the region while essentially turning a blind eye to another. Pakistan quickly followed with its own missile test and is believed to be expanding its already large nuclear arsenal at a time when its government is fragile and U.S.-Pakistan relations are at a low point. In Tokyo last month, an Indian policymaker told me there was nothing significant about the timing of India's missile test — that New Delhi had been planning it for a long time. It may be that India, and now Pakistan, thinks such conduct, the byproduct of a long-strained relationship, will not affect events outside of their sandbox. This myopic view is dangerous. In recent weeks, the word "wary" appeared in many reports about New Delhi's missile launch. "India, wary of Beijing, tests nuclear-capable missile," one headline read. Other articles noted that "China and Pakistan reacted warily" and that the U.S. had issued a "wary" endorsement.But "wary" may not be wise. Just as the killing of Kadafi in Libya may teach that giving up weapons of mass destruction makes you vulnerable, so these tests — without serious responses — may also spur reckless conduct. Wisdom counsels zero tolerance.
Jane Harman is director, president and CEO of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. She was a nine-term congresswoman from California and the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee from 2002 to '06.

She is a NPA jihadi who doesnt relaize the world has changed. To add to her colored prespective, she appears to be talking for China lobby.

Its a no brain opinion.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 20:03
by KLNMurthy

She is a NPA jihadi who doesnt relaize the world has changed. To add to her colored prespective, she appears to be talking for China lobby.

Its a no brain opinion.
Chinese lifafa theory makes sense. Her choice of insulting words like "conduct" is very deliberate and fits chinese style of using symbolic putdowns. Also, only chinese thinking will refer to noko as if it is comparable to India. She is stating the official position of Woodrow Wilson Institute. At the time she quit a safe seat in Congress to take over WWI she was supposed to be going for a job with more influence.

Someone should look more into the china angle. WWI is a traditional hotbed of liberal Atlanticism. Has it been acquired by china? Many of these ladies will be serving hubby's business interests also.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 20:27
by ramana
My take. The PRC was shocked* at the non-response of the West to the A5 test. So it claimed A5 was tested for lesser range than capable to imply even the West was under threat from A5. Even that didnt get any supporters with NPA folks saying India is still far from an ICBM.
So now they activated their China lobby in US to get some support.
Note this lady is also an NPA while supporting China. A twofer.

*Shocked because they never thought India would develop a delivery system with that weight and accuracy. This is as shocking as the POKII. Recall the PRC spokesman's shock on May 13th "Two more?" when informed of the second series of tests.
------
A simple analysis process:
- What is the main message?
- Who is the audience for the message?
- What image is the message looking at?
- Does it reinforce the image or break it or is it neutral?

These results will help coming to conclusion about any op-ed.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 20:40
by SaiK
I want to shock the world with total indigenous Kaveri. Pet peeve though.

For anti sats, I think we can create another shocker to deliver a brahmos variant that can escape velocity and fired at 50K ft, from MKI or LCA. Not just anti stats, but truely matching the best in the world.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 21:04
by Varoon Shekhar
I don't get the reasoning. Is she advocating that countries like Libya perhaps should have had WMD to avoid the events of last year, when its leader died? But that if they do have them, it could spur reckless "conduct"? So should they have them, or should they not?

What's also puzzling is why Indians, and non-Indians supportive of India, are not grilling her. If she's against the idea of India having missiles and nukes, what then does she advocate India's stance should be wrt to Pakistan, China and North Korea? Or if, taking the reference to Libya, if she supports the idea of having nukes and missiles, where should India draw the line in terms of numbers,capability and testing?

Yes, it does sound like some Beijing propaganda drone like language.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 21:05
by ramana
Already done that in the 70s by US. They tested an anti-sat weapon fired from an F-15.

As SS Salvi says that the benefits of low earth orbit sats are too high to clutter that region with useless debris to prove a point to retards.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 21:31
by svinayak
ramana wrote:My take. The PRC was shocked* at the non-response of the West to the A5 test. So it claimed A5 was tested for lesser range than capable to imply even the West was under threat from A5. Even that didnt get any supporters with NPA folks saying India is still far from an ICBM.
So now they activated their China lobby in US to get some support.
Note this lady is also an NPA while supporting China. A twofer.

*Shocked because they never thought India would develop a delivery system with that weight and accuracy. This is as shocking as the POKII. Recall the PRC spokesman's shock on May 13th "Two more?" when informed of the second series of tests.
------
A simple analysis process:
- What is the main message?
- Who is the audience for the message?
- What image is the message looking at?
- Does it reinforce the image or break it or is it neutral?

These results will help coming to conclusion about any op-ed.
Look at how the PRC uses the american media and american think tanks to propogate their PRC position.
China lobby uses the US media and pay for spreading their messages.
PRC uses another host country and uses their power global media to spread their messages. Brillant

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 21:55
by ramana
Well to me looks like US media wants to be used. There is nothing brillinat about it, when there is willing tool to use it.
I think attributing brilliance to everything the OPRC does is not correct. Their biggest mistake was proleferating nukes to TSP for that broke the unwritten agreement between India and the West that India wont nuclearize and trigger the n+1th country syndrome.
They compounded it by being too clever and allowed NoKo to transfer the NoDong missile aka Ghauri after green paint with red tip, which spread the nuke threat to Indian hinterlands. That needed a repsonse as there was no other alternative.
The PRC was confident that the West will enforce the unstated agreement no matter what PRC does to jepardize Indian state existence. The tables turned when the PRC minons like TSP and NoKo atarted threatening the West itself indirectly and directly.
The West already took out Gadda fi, Saddam and its matter of time the rest are takenout.
A5 with its heavy payolad and thus range limitation does not threaten the West. Hence they wont bear PRC's burden till PRC re-adjusts its stance to them say like revalue the currency! This is Hobson's choice for them.
So Harman like people are useful idiots for the PRC who are similar to Prafool Bidwai in India.

Latching on to such characters is not any sign of wisdom.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 22:40
by SaiK
that is exactly we need to harp on for the 21st century.. make chippanda ashamed and make them feel horrible everytime anything strategic talks happen.

nuclear proliferations in the neighborhood.

if we don't do that, we are actually helping them repoint their guns to somewhere else, [now at close range to their feet, and ready to go!].

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 22:49
by KLNMurthy
Varoon Shekhar wrote:I don't get the reasoning. Is she advocating that countries like Libya perhaps should have had WMD to avoid the events of last year, when its leader died? But that if they do have them, it could spur reckless "conduct"? So should they have them, or should they not?

...

Yes, it does sound like some Beijing propaganda drone like language.
Another cheeni drone keyword is "wise". The Libya thing is meant to frame the criticism of "unwise" US policies between two extremes, both of which are incidentally detrimental to china. Killing gadafi and tolerating Indian "conduct" are two extremes of "unwise." But the writing skill to bring out the point directly seems lacking and the writer can't suppress the indignation at India not knowing its place.

Shows the deep penetration of china-borg into highest level policy machinery of USA. Harmon's article almost reads like it was ghostwritten by chinese propaganda writers.

Today it was announced that US banking sector is now open to chinese banks.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:05
by KLNMurthy
ramana wrote:My take. The PRC was shocked* at the non-response of the West to the A5 test. So it claimed A5 was tested for lesser range than capable to imply even the West was under threat from A5. Even that didnt get any supporters with NPA folks saying India is still far from an ICBM.
So now they activated their China lobby in US to get some support.
Note this lady is also an NPA while supporting China.

...

These results will help coming to conclusion about any op-ed.
For aam amriki the idea of India attacking US is literally a joke in the sense that they know India is not "like that" at the core. Also, nearly every Indian decisionmaker has close family in nearly every corner of US so why will they attack?

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:12
by RajeshA
Acharya ji,

It is in fact naturally understandable that the Chinese would use American media. If there is no strong anti-Chinese lobby in USA to stop China from doing so, that is what would happen. May be the Chinese may not be able to manipulate the media to go against US interests, but American elite would not stop China from using the media against its other foes - from Taiwan, to Philippines, to India, to Vietnam, or even Japan.

Actually it is no big deal that they do it. We are not there, because we may not have the expertise in our Ministries on how to use social media, blogs, television, and newsprint to push Indian interests. Our attitude is that the best way is to play a stone statue and let others hit us. Nothing can do us any harm.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:29
by krisna
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1280210
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1280250

Image

black 4 pointed stars are the so called chinese pearls--

from west to east (wrt India)

1) gwadar-pakistan--
2) marao Maldives
3) hambantato Srilanka-
4) chittagong Bangladesh
5) coco island Myanmar
6) sittwe Myanmar
7) Kra isthmus Thailand
8 ) sihanoukville port Cambodia
9) spratly islands- ( disputed islands)
10) woody island(paracel islands)- (also claimed by taiwan and vietnam but ruled by panda)
11) hainan island
12) hongkong.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:31
by svinayak
RajeshA wrote:Acharya ji,

It is in fact naturally understandable that the Chinese would use American media.
It is not natural. In the late 90s US radio DJs used to complain about pro china ads and how they were supposed to air them. These are ads for state owned companies and directly supporting the PLA of PRC.

But this is actually supported by the US govt and supported by varius business lobby and Chamber of commerce.
All the stories in the media are 'pushed' by various pro china friendly think tanks.
This is not skill of social media or people in large numbers adding this ad.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:36
by ramana
Its quite possible that the so called anti-India lobby would say their things regardless of whether they get PRC support or not. In that case might as well take the PRC support and mask their original anti-India stance.

Ms Harman has been anti-India for varoius reasons:Cold War, NPT break out, what not.
So throwing some gratitous refs to how existing world order meaning 'P5' is shaken is a freebie.

But the "unwise" Libyan overthorw and linking to China make it clear there is a pro-China angle to her article.

Maybe she needs a course on Critical Thinking so as to be more effective in her polemics?

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:38
by svinayak
ramana wrote:Its quite possible that the so called anti-India lobby would say their things regardless of whether they get PRC support or not. In that case might as well take the PRC support and mask their original anti-India stance.
You need to compare the US official position from POTUS and GOTUS statement and with these anti India lobbies.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:40
by Prem
When she mention NOKO and India in same line, its proof of both intellectual bankruptcy and Chinese Liffafa.
OTOH< this is good indicator of the Chinese penetration into US media and Yank think tanks. NPAs and Chuhinese might be probing to find out like minded experts and trying to figure out the thinking among the ruling elites of the WEST. One thing for sure, Chuhinese are bothered and reacting to the Agony which soon will become unbearable.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:41
by ramana
krisna, Thanks for the effort.

Looks like PRC has cognitive dissonance. While they are being circled by US they want to circle India as if India is the lesser proxy for the US!

Must be some Sun Tzu axiom adapted by Mao!

When the Lizard is surrounded by the Eagle, surround the rabbit and feed the hyena!

Eagle is threat to a snake/reptile.
Rabbit is vegetarian harmless animal.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 10 May 2012 23:55
by Prem
Lizard need to imagine straight line in the water from south India to Western Australia and North/EAST Aussieland to Japan . If Indian Elephant Maul the Lizard, Eagle wil crush its head and bite in its flesh.
This far in the game, Massa and Japan ant be at ease any more and trust the Lizard to behave in future . The activation of DMIC ,will cause similar agony as A5.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 00:00
by krisna
^^^^
I think the key is Indian ocean region.

IOR controls the majority of world's trade in oil.All the main raw materials from asia and east/southern africa/mediterranean pass thru' IOR to china.
India is the main local maritime power. In fact India is in the best geographical location for it.
China is an landlocked country surrounded everywhere. Its coastal areas are hotly contested by neighbours. Add Uncle and India to the mix.
It cannot turn to pacific as uncle is way ahead in its naval build up.

It can only turn towards IOR to rival India.
of course raw materials pass thru' IOR to china and then onto pacific to uncle as finished products..

So controlling IOR can lead to controlling pacific. :mrgreen:

But will uncle and India oblige. :(( :((

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 00:19
by ramana
Vice Adm Mihir Roy wrote an article in Naval Institute Proceedings in mid 90s where he called India as an aircraft arrier attached ot Asian landmass and controlling the Indian ocean. He point ed out its the only country that has an Ocean named after it.
With the economic activity moving from Europe to Asia, Indian Ocean is the gaetway for atleast the next few centuries just as it was in the Pre-Columbine world.

Will soon link another image for you to add data.
----

here you go:


Image

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 00:40
by Prem
Lalmohan wrote:US definitely thinks they were short changed on the nuke deal, and are claiming that other countries provide governmental backup to their companies.
would it not be easier for the US to financially guarantee its own companies rather than coerce a democratic country to change its laws?
in the context of which, didn't understand the reports of westinghouse setting up plants in Gujarat
Seantor Hyde acted like Jackal and Big O supported him in hauling India over the coal and sucessfully maimed the deal to one leg and one arm of geo- political objectives. That time they did not realize that they themeslevs were removing the economic leg and the hand suppose to dole out the money. Lesson of Enron was not good enough.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 01:32
by SaiK
remotely driven mini-subs (not more than whale size) with complete listeneing and relaying units is possible to cover Indian ocean. Have a bunch of them..

- radar,
- sonar
- camera
- sat link
- able to deploy retractable bouys
- comm
- half a dozen torps

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 02:08
by paramu
RajeshA wrote:It is in fact naturally understandable that the Chinese would use American media.
US media is heavily influenced by the US Govt. If Chinese are able to use US media, that tells us that GOTUS allowed them to use its media.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 02:30
by KLNMurthy
ramana wrote:Its quite possible that the so called anti-India lobby would say their things regardless of whether they get PRC support or not. In that case might as well take the PRC support and mask their original anti-India stance.

Ms Harman has been anti-India for varoius reasons:Cold War, NPT break out, what not.
So throwing some gratitous refs to how existing world order meaning 'P5' is shaken is a freebie.

But the "unwise" Libyan overthorw and linking to China make it clear there is a pro-China angle to her article.

Maybe she needs a course on Critical Thinking so as to be more effective in her polemics?
For a jaundice patient the world seems yellow. The concept of an independent non-aggressive India run on dharmic principles is alien to PRC as well as diehard atlanticists and no amount of critical thinking will help when logical premise is not understood. They just need to be resisted or pushed aside as required.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 03:16
by RajeshA
paramu wrote:
RajeshA wrote:It is in fact naturally understandable that the Chinese would use American media.
US media is heavily influenced by the US Govt. If Chinese are able to use US media, that tells us that GOTUS allowed them to use its media.
I think everybody can use the US media as long as it doesn't interfere with the narrative the the Americans want to put out.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 03:20
by Suraj
Why is so much importance being given to a stink tank lifafa ? Depth of response should be related to the strength of the voice . What did the SD spokesperson say after Agni V ? What did the NATO chief say ? Those entities have no issue with it .

The Chinese face the uncomfortable situation where our testing a missile directed explicitly at them gets tacit acceptance . 10 years ago the world happily joined them in their efforts to browbeat us down after Pok-2. The period saw them grow in might and influence but the world supports them less now. Then Jiang Zemin could get Clinton to rubberstamp a UNSC resolution against us; now they pay stink tank lifafas to write farticles, and when their spokesman shouts that the Agni-V has an 8000km range, the world yawns.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 03:26
by ramana
Suraj, Jane Harman was an influential member of US COngress. The Woodrow Wilson Institute is a Democratic think tank. So its not a minor stink tank.
Otehrwise rest of your post is correct perception.

PRC is worried that an Indian 'PRC' missile test does not raise the ususal suspects voices.

They should listen to Mao and introspect Kolaveri!

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 03:33
by krisna
Indian diplomat's daughter files lawsuit; seeks USD 1.5 mln
An Indian diplomat's daughter, who was jailed for a day on suspicion of sending obscene emails to her teacher, has filed a lawsuit against the city of New York and her school authorities seeking USD 1.5 million in damages for her wrongful imprisonment and suspension from school.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 03:35
by svinayak
ramana wrote:
Looks like PRC has cognitive dissonance. While they are being circled by US they want to circle India as if India is the lesser proxy for the US!

Must be some Sun Tzu axiom adapted by Mao!

When the Lizard is surrounded by the Eagle, surround the rabbit and feed the hyena!
What if PRC feels that circled by US is a sham and it does not bother them since they have the trade lock on US.
But undermining India has long term strategy
They have fear that if India is brought to the global table then their position falls down and they will become just like the rest in Asia. Use of "great power ambition" describing India has deep meaning.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 11 May 2012 03:42
by Varoon Shekhar
"What if PRC feels that circled by US is a sham "

Yes, they could feel that way, but still make the accusation, as a way of justifying their own atrocious behaviour. It's likely that they see India as their main obstacle to dominating Asia. India meanwhile is not interested in domination, and they, and the world know that deep down, or even know it outright. India would like to see other countries democratic, pluralistic and progressive, with trade taking place between them. China wants to be the big landlord with its own large collection of vassals; India's continued existence in its present form prevents such a condition from taking shape.