India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Jan 2015 05:06

Does morality make law or the other way round?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Jan 2015 05:48

A_Gupta wrote:
LokeshC wrote: Re: your review. The last para sort of asks :- "Why do Americans (black or white) take drugs?". That is not the question that the book was trying to answer.
The "Old Jim Crow" laws put barriers to black Americans exercising their fundamental rights.

In contrast, the "New Jim Crow" is about unequal application of laws regarding behavior that society has a legitimate reason to regulate (one may argue that criminalization of narcotics is bad policy, but that is a different debate; there is no fundamental right to narcotics, except perhaps in an extreme libertarian worldview).

The easiest way not to get caught up in "New Jim Crow" (except as an innocent bystander, which does happen) is not to indulge in this criminalized behavior.

In the spirit of throwing books at people, here is another book every Indian American should read: http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ ... saDay.aspx

The thing is, the law book in the US is so contorted that you are BOUND to commit a crime after a period of time here. It maybe the most innocent crime ever. US Laws are like Islamic laws, there are contradictory laws here and there and you are BOUND to violate it at some point of time. Therefore, your argument of "staying legal" is impossible in the US.

What this means is, if drugs were tomorrow to be legalized there would be some other set of laws applied unequally and the results would be the same: More blacks incarcerated for it than whites (or for that matter Browns).

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 19 Jan 2015 05:56

http://youtu.be/sJfwpMhLVB4

Rajiv Malhotra exposes hollowness of Infosys, CEO Narayan Murthy - IIT Mumbai Q&A

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Jan 2015 06:19

So these (MCLI - Murty Classical Library of India) are available at Higginbothams:

From hAvaD vishwavidyAlaya press wrote:MCLI volumes are available in India in both hardcover and paperback from amazon.in and flipkart.com, as well as from leading bookstores and airport shops throughout the subcontinent.

I wonder whether they would do better than "Day of the Jackal" and "Chariots of Gods".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Jan 2015 09:00

CRamS wrote:Guys, on US warning TSP to send in its pigLeTs while Obama is in India (after that, its OK I guess), has that news been reported elsewhere or is it DDM spin?

Whatever the truth or otherwise of that report - Obama in India will ensure that every US snooper cell will be listening in to all chatter emerging from Pakistan and India. India too will be listening and the two will likely share anything of interest. If India hears something and shares it and the US ignores it Ombaba could be in trouble. And vice versa. India actually has some very good intel assets - but we don't have the sophistication and coverage that the US has - eg listening in to Sat Phones and internet phone calls. If Ombaba is to be safe - sharing is best.

It is likely that Kerry would have told his ally Pakistan that Intel will be shared for Ombaba's security - so try and wait till after the visit to get back to business as usual.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 19 Jan 2015 11:01

In a First, US President Barack Obama May Not Travel in the 'Beast' for Republic Day Parade

NEW DELHI: A seven-layer security ring is planned around the VVIP enclosure on Rajpath from where US President Barack Obama, President Pranab Mukherjee and Prime Minister Narendra Modi will watch the Republic Day parade next Monday.

The airspace over the area will be monitored by a radar that is being specially set up, as unprecedented ground-to-air security is put in place to turn the national capital into an fortress during the visit of President Obama, who will be the first American President to be Chief Guest at the Republic Day celebrations on January 26.

Because President Obama will be on an open air platform at Rajpath for more than two hours when he witnesses the parade, there is the possibility that the VVIP enclosure will be put behind a bullet-proof shield, sources have said.

For now, the US president is expected to follow protocol and arrive with President Mukherjee at Rajapth on the morning of Monday next. If he does that Mr Obama will possibly be the first US President not to travel in his own highly-secured bullet-proof limousine also called the 'Beast'.

A multi-agency control room will monitor surveillance operations in every area of Delhi which has been put on the highest alert because of the visit of the US President. President Obama will arrive next Sunday, January 25, with his wife Michelle on a three-day visit.

The threat perception is the highest for the event, but there is no specific intelligence input about a possible terror strike, officials involved in the security preparations said on Sunday while giving a broad overview of the security drill.

American Secret Service personnel, who have landed in the capital and Agra, have already conducted a preliminary survey of the routes to be taken by the US President and Rajpath where Mr Obama will be seated along with President Pranab Mukherjee, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and a host of other VVIPs to watch the annual parade.

The elite Special Protection Group and Secret Services personnel will form a part of the "close proximity ring" in the seven tiered protection planned around the VVIP enclosure, official sources said.

Central Security agencies have brought in their Concealed Anti-Terrorists (CAT) squads to the national capital and they will be part of teams that carry out surprise checks at hotels, guest houses and vulnerable localities.

The ITC Maurya hotel, where the US President will be staying, has been taken over by Secret Services personnel and a multi-frequency control room manned by US officials has been set up.

American security personnel will also be part of the teams manning the control rooms set up to watch footage of nearly 15,000 CCTVs installed in the capital and part of every rehearsal drill.

A power-point presentation of the Republic Day was given to the US officials about the events of the day including the cultural programme that will be performed by various artists before the VVIPs at Rajpath.

Besides the 80,000-member strong Delhi Police, an additional 20,000 paramilitary personnel and armed police forces from neighbouring states including Haryana, Rajasthan and from the India Reserve Battalions have been pressed into service to ensure fool-proof security in the capital especially around Rajpath where the main Republic day function will be held.

Anti-aircraft guns have been placed at strategic locations to thwart attempts to violate the air space over the venue, which is traditionally a no-fly zone.

Metro stations and offices around the Rajpath area will be taken over 72 hours in advance at the request of US security personnel. Snipers will take up positions at vantage points while Indian Air Force (IAF) will provide air cover to the parade area and the VVIPs on the ground.

The guest list for the 'At-Home' function hosted by the President is being pruned this time because of security considerations, the sources said.

Unlike in previous years, access to Rajpath has already been closed while roads criss-crossing Rajpath like Rafi Marg, Janpath and Man Singh Road will be shut for the general public a day or two before January 26.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 19 Jan 2015 12:39

matrimc wrote:Does morality make law or the other way round?

Let me recapture from my recollection of sources of law from my days as a student of accountancy. There are three sources of law accordingl to classical theory. Common customs, equity and edicts of the king. Taking the last first, law is what the king says it is. In modern context of democracy, law is what the legislature says it is. Having said that a legislature cannot dictate to the public something as law if they are strongly opposed to it. For they can gang up together and vote the Government in power. Public will accept something new if that is largely in consonance with their beliefs and common practices. So, new laws at its core, must be rooted in common customs or common law in simple terms. Now, a society for its growth needs stability. A violent society cannot be stable. It should be founded on some equitable principles of compassion, fairness etc. In other words we are down to equity as the ultimate fount of all laws. That is just one step away from what the hindus call as 'Dharma'.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Jan 2015 12:59

O'Bomber would win a huge battle of the "hearts and minds" if he rides in an open carriage down Rajpath escorted by the 61st cavalry/pres guard as used to be done by Indian presidents with their VVIP guests some time ago. A Kevlar protected shamiana roof would also spare him getting hot under the collar from the sharp Delhi winter sun. The security for a Yanqui pres. is getting so absurd that in future it would be better for a US pres. to send his hologram to foreign countries saving zillions in expenses and setting a trend!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 19 Jan 2015 18:15

A_Gupta wrote:
LokeshC wrote: Re: your review. The last para sort of asks :- "Why do Americans (black or white) take drugs?". That is not the question that the book was trying to answer.
The "Old Jim Crow" laws put barriers to black Americans exercising their fundamental rights.

In contrast, the "New Jim Crow" is about unequal application of laws regarding behavior that society has a legitimate reason to regulate (one may argue that criminalization of narcotics is bad policy, but that is a different debate; there is no fundamental right to narcotics, except perhaps in an extreme libertarian worldview).

The easiest way not to get caught up in "New Jim Crow" (except as an innocent bystander, which does happen) is not to indulge in this criminalized behavior.

Well we have not understood a lot of American society to begin with.

For example, it was blacks who were key members in the abolitionist movement.
For example, page 39-40 in this link under heading class and caste. link

The racial seggration go a very long way in the history of USA, and probably these black people related to the abolitionist movement need to be invited more to India for outlook and correct picture. After all, if we talk of the Holocaust of Jews then we should refer to what Jews say; and not what those who perpetrated the Holocaust on Jews speak about.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 19 Jan 2015 18:32

Philip wrote:O'Bomber would win a huge battle of the "hearts and minds" if he rides in an open carriage down Rajpath escorted by the 61st cavalry/pres guard as used to be done by Indian presidents with their VVIP guests some time ago. A Kevlar protected shamiana roof would also spare him getting hot under the collar from the sharp Delhi winter sun. The security for a Yanqui pres. is getting so absurd that in future it would be better for a US pres. to send his hologram to foreign countries saving zillions in expenses and setting a trend!

Heh heh heh .. litigation for Indian PM in America and security for Yankee Prez in India. Reminds of Prez Bush's visit during Manmohan Singh's times. Much friendship was displayed, link , who could have said that GBush attacked Iraq in 2003.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 19 Jan 2015 18:59

matrimc wrote:So these (MCLI - Murty Classical Library of India) are available at Higginbothams:

From hAvaD vishwavidyAlaya press wrote:MCLI volumes are available in India in both hardcover and paperback from amazon.in and flipkart.com, as well as from leading bookstores and airport shops throughout the subcontinent.
I wonder whether they would do better than "Day of the Jackal" and "Chariots of Gods".

Folks-if you really want Sanskrit books, forget all this Murty stuff, and buy from Chaukhamba Surbharati Prakashan. They are the best publishers of Sanskrit texts in India and have the best explanations (vyakhya) for Sanskrit books. Genuine Indic explanations, not the rubbish that you find often in western translations. You find the explanations mostly in Hindi, though. It is the Chaukambas that we must preserve, not the abominations created by the West for us.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Jan 2015 19:42

DoCJi, what you say makes eminent sense. At least during Obama's visit, there might be genuine cooperation between US and India.

Let me add that with so much intense scrutiny on TSP, TSP (and its 3.5) cannot play the tired old trick. Blame the pigLeT attack on Col ProHit, RSS et. Recall, in the immediate aftermath of 26/11, FT carried that Paki lie that saffron bands were seen on the pigLeTs. NYT published letters from "South Asian Indians" that drew parallels between Gujarat 2002 and 26/11. And recall Economist rag demanded India hand over Kashmir to TSP after the Mumbai train attacks by Pakis that killed 200+. Acck Thoo, bloody racist b@stards. Also, with traitors not in power in Delhi, such trash will not be given any weight either in India, but you never know with cretins like Praveen Swami & Co. So TSP stands to lose a lot by indulging in any hanky panky.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 19 Jan 2015 19:52

"Economist rag demanded India hand over Kashmir to TSP after the Mumbai train attacks by Pakis that killed 200+. Acck Thoo, bloody racist b@stards. Also, with traitors not in power in Delhi, such trash will not be given any weight either in India, but you never know with cretins like Praveen Swami & Co. So TSP stands to lose a lot by indulging in any hanky panky."

CRamS, that is disgusting. Can you possibly provide the link to that article, for some reason, searching the web is not bringing it up successfully. I have normal blood pressure, I want to see if it rises upon reading the article!

Following the 11/26 attacks in Mumbai, there was some revolting piece in the "Christian Science Monitor", basically imploring India to withdraw troops from Kashmir, as a way of creating peace in the subcontinent, and making NATO's job in Afghanistan easier.

The audacity, arrogance and idiocy of these people.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 19 Jan 2015 20:58

Rumor is that the real reason for Obama's India visit is that he wants to join the BJP.... /snark off

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jan 2015 21:16

CRS, Pollock et al are new versions of Max Mueller.
Agenda is same.
Only the funders are different.

Narayanamurthy is DIE stalwart.
So not unexpected strike.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 19 Jan 2015 21:51

The emperor-wannabe of most adorable firm is desperate for a Nobel. The thing is he has nothing that the west wants and he doesn't know how to generate value. That much is obvious for those who knew him from the 80s.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 19 Jan 2015 22:04

Obama ke security ka paisa kya US ka baap dega?

Faaltu panti

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Jan 2015 22:26

What are the chances of President Obama pulling out at the last minute?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 19 Jan 2015 22:51

These things would have been factored in by NaMo before sending the invite. The funny thing is how the US goes into a tizzy with security, considering our top leaders will be present too, for the full ceremony (which means security will be very tight), and this function has been held without incident for decades.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 19 Jan 2015 22:53

matrimc wrote:What are the chances of President Obama pulling out at the last minute?

I doubt that will happen sir, serious H&D issue then. They would have considered the risk before accepting the invite.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Jan 2015 23:18

matrimc wrote:What are the chances of President Obama pulling out at the last minute?

AmirKhans go "all in". They wont pull out that easily (not just H&D but also a diplomatic crisis).

BTW: So many other innuendo jokes I can make here.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jan 2015 23:24

NDTV: US-UK have asked Pakistan to hand over Lakhvi to India, the US or UK

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 19 Jan 2015 23:29

matrimc wrote:Does morality make law or the other way round?

They are orthogonal

Laws are the rules for government.

So, e.g., if something does not meet one or more of the 5 conditions that PM Modi said that government is required for (common good, externalities, market imperfections, safety net, information asymmetry) there will be no laws for it. It could still be immoral.

E.g., common morality teaches that telling lies is immoral. But law will make telling lies illegal, prosecutable, punishable only in specific situations. Not all lies can be prosecuted or be a basis for a lawsuit. It doesn't mean because the law is limited, that lying becomes moral. Nor does it make sense for morality to insist for law on every instance of lie. That is why I say they are orthogonal.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Jan 2015 01:05

Boy! BO & NaMO in the same space. Wonder if they also invited Nut&Yahoo. If this didn't set the entire Ummah into a tizzy I wonder what can. I know! They should have invited Salman Rushdie and the Dutch cartoonist as well. I think b4 Jan 26, half the Paki terror establishment will have exposed themselves

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jan 2015 03:56

I like the big NO for Khaan onlee snipers. heck ya! call it changing democracy of another land.

The Trojan goats will burry further inside the mountains for 10 days.. Time to do some fire-n-forget nags using namicas on the mountains.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Jan 2015 06:20

@Vishvak ^^^ "After all, if we talk of the Holocaust of Jews then we should refer to what Jews say; and not what those who perpetrated the Holocaust on Jews speak about."

Can you clarify? Don't understand your point on this.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Jan 2015 06:25

matrimc wrote:> there is no fundamental right to narcotics

Suffice it to say I vehemently disagree with that. Who is any one to impose their view of morality on somebody who wants to eat meat/vegetarian only/wants to drink alcohol/have a consenting menage a trois or whetever as long as nobody is hurt? Victimless "crimes" if they are such.

Oh by the way that is not an extreme libertarian POV.

+1

The problem is who gets to decide.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 20 Jan 2015 06:43

http://www.rediff.com/business/special/ ... 150119.htm
Can Obama's visit lift India-US trade ties out of gloom?
The visit of United States President Barack Obama to India, as the first American leader to be chief guest at the Republic Day parade, has raised high expectations. Perhaps too high, as the difficulties that bedevil the United States-India bilateral relationship are difficult indeed to overcome.
While the two countries retain a common view of the world in many ways, and the desire to balance a rising China remains the unspoken lynchpin of ever stronger co-operation between New Delhi and Washington, the many roadblocks in the path cannot be wished away -- especially since these obstacles are essentially a product of bureaucratic slowness and contradictions that are inherent to both capitals. This, for example, has prevented realisation of potential benefits from the United States-India civilian nuclear agreement -- which certainly exists on paper, but in the absence of enabling last-mile regulations, especially on liability, has not translated into more investments on the ground. For India, there are several issues on the table. The long-smouldering demand for a ‘totalisation agreement’, which would ensure that Indian companies do not have to contribute to United States social security for the employees that they send to that country, is one such. Chief Economic Advisor Arvind Subramanian described these payouts as $3 billion worth of ‘involuntary aid’ from Indians to the United States government. Several agreements to rule out such contributions have been signed by the United States, and so India thinks it has a good case......
Gautam

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 20 Jan 2015 07:36

JE Menon wrote:NDTV: US-UK have asked Pakistan to hand over Lakhvi to India, the US or UK

It means Lakhvi is in final stages of his preparation for a massive attack on India. Everyone knows this and this warning to Pakistan is CYA tactics from US&UK.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Jan 2015 08:11

Pakistan assures US after being warned to ensure security during Obama's India trip

Hours after the US warned Pakistan of consequences in case of any cross-border terror attack during President Barack Obama's India trip, Islamabad has assured Washington of safety, reports said Monday.

Isn't this getting ridiculous? So Pakistan assures nothing will happen during this visit. Isn't this an open admission that it can control its non-State actors and sleeper cells in India. It is an open game that Pakistan, America and India plays.

And Indian media is not questioning this incredulity?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jan 2015 09:29

sincerely, record all phone taps.. then play it out once om baba leaves! hell yeah!

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 20 Jan 2015 09:52

SwamyG wrote: Isn't this getting ridiculous? So Pakistan assures nothing will happen.

Well, US just paid the jijiya tax and is entitled to Islamic protection.
Gautam

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Jan 2015 11:04

Growing up parents would ask kids to act 'good' when the family had elders visiting. It is equal equal tor this nautanki. Where are the Indian commies when one needs them?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jan 2015 13:51

So after O'Bomber has visited the Taj,Its going to be "back to business" for Paki terror? The absurdity of it all.Paki terror!
Secondly,the N-Liability conditions cannot be watered down in any manner.India cannot afford a Fukushima,where the cost to Japan has been in the billions. A measly $300M as compensation is what gem\n Zia called "peanuts"! Just look at the figures claimed for the oil rig catastrophe in the Gulf of Mexico from the operator,BP.A nuclear disaster would render the affected area uninhabitable for centuries!
Thirdly,the so-called US N-reactors are reportedly similar to those operated in Japan,Fukushima types? They aren't supposed to be as tech advanced as the French and Russian ones. There are huge issues to be resolved from both the technical side as well as liability. Just because O'Bomber is visiting does not mean that we have to surrender our fundamental N-security to please a lame-duck US pres who has the lowest ratings ever of any US pres!

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Jan 2015 16:11

P.R. Chinese think tanker, Fu Xiaoqiang, who is a research fellow at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations provides his take to Global Times on the limits to bonhomie between India and the US. Notwithstanding P.R. China’s antipathy to India, an accurate take that there are indeed limits to bonhomie between India and the US:

Pakistan, trade, emissions issues could frustrate closer Indian-US ties

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2015 21:19

Philip, The decline is in the open.
Harks back to Pope pleading with the Huns.

Think this one through.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 20 Jan 2015 21:22

SwamyG wrote:Pakistan assures US after being warned to ensure security during Obama's India trip

Hours after the US warned Pakistan of consequences in case of any cross-border terror attack during President Barack Obama's India trip, Islamabad has assured Washington of safety, reports said Monday.
Isn't this getting ridiculous? So Pakistan assures nothing will happen during this visit. Isn't this an open admission that it can control its non-State actors and sleeper cells in India. It is an open game that Pakistan, America and India plays.

And Indian media is not questioning this incredulity?

both the warning story and this pakis complying story seem to be plants. it is 'sources said' and 'reports say'. No attribution to real names or story run in any other media.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jan 2015 21:38

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/opinion/p ... index.html
Gin + Daal == Jindal

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 20 Jan 2015 23:07

http://www.niticentral.com/2015/01/20/i ... 97404.html
Indian Science Congress and GIAN reveal much on Media Priorities

While the mainstream media is busy blaming Modi government for things they did not do, it is also interesting to note what the media is not reporting. The Modi government has come up with a great plan to invite 1000 US professors to teach in Indian Universities, every year. Couple of days ago, the HRD minister tweeted that Fields Medalist and Princeton professor Dr. Manjul Bhargava has agreed to be a part of this program and teach in India. If this proposal, known as GIAN — global initiative of academic network — works out, it will be a game-changer in higher education in India. If the best scientists in the word start visiting and teaching in India (even for short periods of months), it will increase the standard of education and research in India. But most of the mainstream media is silent about GIAN. I googled “GIAN Manjul Bhargava site:ndtv.com” — zero results! This reinforces the known theory — journalism in India is agenda driven.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 21 Jan 2015 00:43

^^^ Thanks, for putting this blip about GIAN here... Yes, these kind of things, which generally remains in background are important..win-win for all.