Intelligence & National Security Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2010 20:58

Ankit Desai wrote:SAARC: Surprise and silence over spy's arrest

She must be extra-ordinarily smart to do that, he believes, pointing out that over ten officials of Indian intelligence agencies were posted in the embassy to keep an eye on the Indian staffers.

Gupta used to work as a translator of Urdu documents in the embassy.
Ankit

Thats the IB Counter Intelligence folks and not spies(RAW) per se.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 27 Apr 2010 21:03

^^, Treason if proven should face firing squad.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 27 Apr 2010 21:06

ramana wrote:So most likely she is TSP agent. So BRamanji is not correct in thinking she is a third country's agent in TSP. And she seems to be not hardboiled(she came back to Delhi) like Rabinder Singh who appears to have known his perfidy and fled.

She might have made a "routine" trip, for all we know. Intel agencies could have patiently waited till she returned for "just another visit".

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 27 Apr 2010 21:09

I do not see anything wrong with what VK singh said??

Would you rather be where our dual citizens of Britain and yehudi land are after the recent Dubai tamasha??

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 21:36

Kati wrote:Madhuri Gupta........

She hails from a community different from the one that her official name suggests. But
the question is - how did the others come to know of her true identity / soft corners
to engage her in their own advantage? Who blew off her cover? So others must be involved, and she was used as a go between.

? Care to elaborate?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Apr 2010 22:04

ramana wrote:If Ms. Gupta were massa's agent she would have fled by now a la earlier thotas.
So most likely she is TSP agent. So BRamanji is not correct in thinking she is a third country's agent in TSP. And she seems to be not hardboiled(she came back to Delhi) like Rabinder Singh who appears to have known his perfidy and fled.

It is possible that they may not know that they are working for the western govt. Lot of Indians do it themselves without knowing what they are doing.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Apr 2010 22:12

shravan wrote:^ IFS Group B officer Madhuri Gupta was working in the press wing of the Indian High Commissioner, according to intelligence sources.

Slightly OT but how is a IFS Group B officer recruited ?
Through the Civil Services Exam like the regular IFS or UPSC conducts a separate exam ?

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 27 Apr 2010 22:14

ASPuar wrote:
Kati wrote:Madhuri Gupta........

She hails from a community different from the one that her official name suggests. But
the question is - how did the others come to know of her true identity / soft corners
to engage her in their own advantage? Who blew off her cover? So others must be involved, and she was used as a go between.
? Care to elaborate?

looks kinda north indian??

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Apr 2010 22:21

Maybe we start another thread, but its absolutely stunning, mind boggling that a 2-bit terrorist country can heap so much heartburn and humiliiation on mother India.

Shivlal Vedhavani · Post by **Shivlal Vedhavani** » 27 Apr 2010 22:28

not a surprise at all, how do you folks think that Dawood Bhai runs India sitting in Karachi unless many in babudom work for him?
For BRF this should not at all be revelation

G_Wolf · Post by **G_Wolf** » 27 Apr 2010 22:34

i cannot believe this actually happened....what were our intel agencies doing? i wonder how bad this spy ring is and what sort of response we can give..

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Apr 2010 22:39

Acharya wrote: It is possible that they may not know that they are working for the western govt. Lot of Indians do it themselves without knowing what they are doing.

Highly possible. Most of bleeding heart individuals and organizations are indirectly working for western govts thru their networks.

Perhaps Indian CI wing learned a lesson from Rabinder Singh. Make sure that you let the bird enter the cage before closing the door.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 27 Apr 2010 22:46

NDTV reports that Madhuri Gupta has confessed to spying for money and love.
She was in love with a Pakistani handler "Rana". B Raman had predicted right when he stressed on "unmarried woman in her 40s".
Seems she was unhappy over poor service conditions in IFS.

I always thought IFS was the most lucrative of all services.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Apr 2010 22:48

Her handler was one Rana. Any relations to DCH chaddi buddy?

Also she was arrested four days ago. We didn't wait for SAARC to get over?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 27 Apr 2010 22:57

Unmarried woman in 40s - the reason why she was a target of honey trap...maybe from now on we should get openly gay operatives who are in relationships to work abroad.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Apr 2010 23:10

So its basically money and attraction to TFTA traits

. Thats what DCH tick too.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 27 Apr 2010 23:11

Sen_K wrote:NDTV reports that Madhuri Gupta has confessed to spying for money and love.
She was in love with a Pakistani handler "Rana". B Raman had predicted right when he stressed on "unmarried woman in her 40s".
Seems she was unhappy over poor service conditions in IFS. I always thought IFS was the most lucrative of all services.

Love Jihad?

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 27 Apr 2010 23:12

Woman officer gave India's Afghan plans to ISI

Sources say she not only partially leaked India's plans in Afghanistan, but she was also meeting ISI officers, made 'dead drops' and also sent e-mails to handlers from fake accounts.

A single woman, she had been posted in Baghdad, Kuala Lumpur and an UN mission in Africa.

Ankit

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 27 Apr 2010 23:15

Maduri Gupta is a shame ! GOI should also at look the salary + perks for the officials posted abroad so that for mere monitory gains our state secrets are leaked, just like that ! another aspect which should be looked in to is the level of training + counselling, monitoring these people ! the monitoring should be upgraded Globaly and rapidly. She should be given 3rd degree treatment with max penality ! mere 10 years imprisonment for suck crimes are just not enough! ( they will come out in 6 years in remission etc !) Let us revise the Indian laws first ! Let us give 50 years of life imprisonment. The punishment should be in such a way that every Indian staff/offcier working should FEAR for the ramifications ! If a female officer has a guts to work for enemy like paki, then imagine the level of compromise which might or can happen in so called friendly (!)countries like USA !

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2010 23:17

Bad things happen. Sorry for that lady that she fell for charms. Wasnt the Kareena Kapoor movie "Kurbaan" on similar lines?

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 27 Apr 2010 23:36

ramana wrote:Bad things happen. Sorry for that lady that she fell for charms. Wasnt the Kareena Kapoor movie "Kurbaan" on similar lines?

I think Kurbaan was more a case of Kareena suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

Anyway this case raises several questions surrounding the security architecture at some of our sensitive diplomatic outposts, China and Pakistan included. Red flags ought to have been raised at the very outset because (a) she's a single woman and (b) she volunteered to go to Pakistan. Pakistan is a very tough posting and I doubt anyone in her particular circumstances would "volunteer" to go there.

TV channels claim that Madhuri's go-between with her contacts in Pakistan was a prominent local journalist. I wonder who this could be. Hamid Mir perhaps?

*BRF Fantasy Alert*- Hopefully our intelligence agencies were feeding her with incorrect information from the moment she was placed under investigation six months ago and the Pakis were reduced to dealing with a double agent.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 27 Apr 2010 23:41

I dont feel one bit sorry for her. The deaths of our army doctors in Afghanistan? The killings of the Military Attache, and the Director at the Embassy? The killings of the ITBP jawans? God knows how many terror attacks in India?

No, Sir, I feel not one ounce of pity for her. If for some fraud notions of "romance", and bad pay, someone can do this, then death to them! She was paid as a Second Secretary should be. For gods sake, can anything they give be worth the lives of our countrymen? This woman is a murdress. She should be hung!

If the allegations are true, then the face of Madhuri Gupta is the face of a killer, a traitor, a woman unfaithful to the soil and salt from which she has become who she is. Simple Death will be too good a thing to offer to traitorous filth like this.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Apr 2010 00:02

ramana wrote:Bad things happen. Sorry for that lady that she fell for charms. Wasnt the Kareena Kapoor movie "Kurbaan" on similar lines?

ramana-ji
I disagree. Why feel sorry when we demand more blood and patriotism from Indians for worse pay, living and service conditions? Diplomats working from consulates are royalty when compared to Jawans patrolling Siachen or CRPF marching in marshes amidst snakes. On top of it, diplomats know that they are going to be targeted, it is part of their job & responsibility to resist it.

I have a bad feeling about this, most spy cases just die quietly. On top of it they are difficult and messy to prosecute with the defence usually relying on the fact that the Govt cannot produce all evidence in an open court. GOI coming out quite openly means that someone is very very pissed or thinks that the damage of open prosecution is nothing compared to the damage already done.

Expect a purge with several people's heads rolling

G_Wolf · Post by **G_Wolf** » 28 Apr 2010 00:05

an indian daily is reporting that this lady has handed several important documents that had india's plans in afghanistan over to the ISI.

WTF! hang her from the highest tree!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Apr 2010 00:11

G_Wolf wrote:an indian daily is reporting that this lady has handed several important documents that had india's plans in afghanistan over to the ISI.

No wonder the policies of NATO, US and Pak has changed for Afgahnistan in the last 6 mths completely. This has deep significance.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 28 Apr 2010 00:14

*BRF Fantasy Alert*- Hopefully our intelligence agencies were feeding her with incorrect information from the moment she was placed under investigation six months ago and the Pakis were reduced to dealing with a double agent.

that's how they caught her , still past 2 yrs we have seen dramatic workload on our foreign agency in pak, what function she was assigned to do?
does it makes a difference in overall diplomatic game?

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 28 Apr 2010 00:15

Exclusive: Maduri Gupta was blackmailed?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Apr 2010 00:15

Karzai recent visit has something to do with this arrest ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Apr 2010 00:19

Acharya wrote:
G_Wolf wrote:an indian daily is reporting that this lady has handed several important documents that had india's plans in afghanistan over to the ISI.
No wonder the policies of NATO, US and Pak has changed for Afgahnistan in the last 6 mths completely. This has deep significance.

Since they all know, maybe GOI should let Indians know now atleast?

Maybe thats why DCH got the plea bargain to keep him out of Indian plans?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Apr 2010 00:25

G_Wolf wrote:an indian daily is reporting that this lady has handed several important documents that had india's plans in afghanistan over to the ISI. WTF! hang her from the highest tree!

Exactly, especially if the info she provided led to the deaths of her compatriots. What a b$%^&h.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 28 Apr 2010 00:43

I like Chinese style. All diplomates are married with spouse back in China (as a guarantee). Everybody lives in Embassy compound itself. I have seen Indian diplomats residing different areas of city. No one care if they have party with Egyptians or Sudanese.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Apr 2010 00:49

rsingh wrote:I like Chinese style. All diplomates are married with spouse back in China (as a guarantee). Everybody lives in Embassy compound itself. I have seen Indian diplomats residing different areas of city. No one care if they have party with Egyptians or Sudanese.

That is a very important issue.
At least for 3 countries India should also adopt this.
China, Pakistan and Afghanistan

G_Wolf · Post by **G_Wolf** » 28 Apr 2010 00:52

i wonder how much this affects india's already compromised position in afghanistan, given that the paki army has already outmaneuvered india in some respects with regard to the future of afghanistan. there is talk now that the americans under obama have agreed to limit india's future role in afghanistan with a settled future for the afghan taliban in any government....what happens next?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 28 Apr 2010 00:54

I'm wondering if any information betrayed by her played in part in the numerous Kabul attacks on Indian targets

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Apr 2010 00:59

Could be. But will find out from Ramanji one of these days. Especially if her info used for the Embassy bombing? Can one do a quick timeline to see if it matches up?

I found it odd that the IFS and the mil attache were targetted. It looks like the terrorists knew who to target.

G-Wolf ,Afghan Stability should be the biggest Indian FP goal in the area. And it can happen despite all other powers preventing that.

aditya.agd · Post by **aditya.agd** » 28 Apr 2010 01:09

is there a way that India can also do a similar thing to Pakistani? I just cannot understand why indian intelligence can not mount a counter terror initiative within Pakistan?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 28 Apr 2010 01:15

I wish these media fellows wouldnt go all overboard with the "Senior Diplomat" stuff. A second secy is NOT a senior diplomat, and is in the same scale of pay as a Major in the Army. Not junior, but not senior either. Of course, being from a group B service, she was in her mid 50's, but for an IFS A officer, this would be the first promotion in service.

That is to say, after probationer, and third secretary, an IFS officer would reach this rank in 4 years from date of UPSC exam, and 2 years from date of actual commencement of service. Up till VI CPC the rank was equal to captain, and is now equal in pay grade to Major. Most civil servants recruited from the civil services exam will be about 25-26 when they reach this rank.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 28 Apr 2010 01:16

aditya.agd wrote:is there a way that India can also do a similar thing to Pakistani? I just cannot understand why indian intelligence can not mount a counter terror initiative within Pakistan?

Who says they dont?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Apr 2010 01:16

Prabu wrote:Exclusive: Maduri Gupta was blackmailed?

Let the speculations begin!! B Raman says hard to blackmail single woman. Seema Mustafa says "Depends on what kind of blackmail and News X has details and it will not be good to air them"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Apr 2010 01:24

Add to that India Today writes:

Diplomat spied to settle scores with officers

Wonder if she thought dealing with enemy is par for the course of settling scores.

According to sources, Gupta, who was posted at the Indian High Commission in Islamabad, told interrogators that she did not indulge in spying for the sake of money but to settle scores with some officers.

Gupta, the 54-year-old second secretary in the press and information wing, was arrested in Delhi four days ago.

She had been under the scanner for the past six months and was brought to Delhi on the pretext of preparations for the SAARC Summit.

Sources said Gupta told interrogators that a prominent Pakistani journalist put her in touch with Pakistani intelligence officers.

According to sources, Gupta's proximity to RAW officer R.K. Sharma is under the scanner. Her computers have been brought to Delhi and emails in the last two years are being scanned.

...
Gupta is a Grade B Indian Foreign Service officer and rose through the ranks. She was posted at the Indian High Commission in Pakistan since September 2007. A specialist interpreter in Urdu, she served in Delhi and Kuala Lumpur as well

I think she was the one who fingered the Kabul Embassy people who got killed and the Kabul hotel.