Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

[RajeshA]

Gus ji,

if it were really your name, I would have been a bit surprised.

[Surya]

A long interview KP one of the higher ups in the LTTE and in charge of arms procurement



http://www.firstpost.com/politics/full- ... 14180.html


also interesting info on who runs the remnants now in Canada, UK and Norway

[chetak]

I see myself backing whats right for India.

Is this something Indians get an input on or is it decided on some need to know basis.
Personally I don’t think it is in India’s interest to have a racist unstable state on its margin…

Wake up and smell the coffee.

we are surrounded by "racist unstable states" on three (?) sides already and yet you us want to take on the most benign of the three, the most friendly and the one with the best cultural fit to us?

[vishvak]

I think as Indians we should all be proud of steps taken by Govt of India in restoring normalcy. All Indians individually and collectively should be proud of any such schemes, regardless of selective 'international' propaganda.

[chetak]

I think as Indians we should all be proud of steps taken by Govt of India in restoring normalcy. All Indians individually and collectively should be proud of any such schemes, regardless of selective 'international' propaganda.

As long as said Indians understand that foreign relations is a central and not a state subject

[Javee]

Is this something Indians get an input on or is it decided on some need to know basis.
Personally I don’t think it is in India’s interest to have a racist unstable state on its margin…

Wake up and smell the coffee.

we are surrounded by "racist unstable states" on three (?) sides already and yet you us want to take on the most benign of the three, the most friendly and the one with the best cultural fit to us?

Not sure what coffee you drink everyday, Srilanka is hardly benign or friendly. India is bending over backwards to be in bed with the Pakse's. As for the cultural part, if there is so much in common, not sure why the biggest minority in SL had to wage a 25 year old armed struggle and a 50+ year old political campaign for equal rights. Best not to talk about the 2nd biggest minority group which is also heading to a flash point.

[rohitvats]

^^^It matters not if Sri Lanka is benign or friendly when it comes to the question of LTTE and India's treatment of this issue.

Please read the interview of KP linked by Chetak earlier - even in 2009, UN and "a western country" were ready to send ship to evacuate LTTE leadership AKA Prabhakaran. What is quite obvious that after India cut its umbilical cord with LTTE (and rightly so), LTTE was in bed with foreign powers based to derive some sort of sustenance and support. Success of LTTE in SL would have been the worst thing to happen to India with far greater repercussion than people can even imagine.

So, as far as GOI and GOSL relationship with respect to LTTE are concerned, they are in sync. It is a case of our national interest dovetailing with that GOSL. And please remember one thing - the biggest mistake that sh1t-head made was antagonize India. Period. Do you think SL found the coordinates of LTTE ammunition ships in high seas - as far as Australia - by themselves?

Coming to issue of SL Tamils - well, it is in the interest of India to ensure that the issue is settled amicably. Last thing India can afford is western powers feeding of this fault-line and creating troubles for us. My guiding principle for engaging in this issue is not the ethnic connection between Tamils in TN and SL - it is national interest of my country.

But engaging with GOSL and getting them to provide just rights to Tamils is not going to happen by voting in favor of western sponsored human rights nonsense in UN - those resolutions are meant to serve western interests and not Indian. Nothing is going to come from beating the SL over human rights issues. Pure and simple.

We need to show the middle fingers to western countries and their minions in SL Tail diaspora - we are the top dog in this area and that is how it should remain. We can talk softly GOSL while carrying the big stick. An antagonistic India is the last thing SL can afford. We are best guarantor of Tamil safety and not some western country.

[shyamd]

^^ I think the problem we are having at the moment is that he current GoSL is not willing to give the Tamils their autonomy and not really taking the steps to resolve the issue forever.

Ask Rajapakse and he blames the Tamil parties. If talking is not working, then the question becomes what else can we do to put some pressure on? So the vote against SL was to convey our unhappiness and add a bit of pressure. NSA also provided a more stern prodding which forced Rajapakse to commit more.

[chetak]

^^ I think the problem we are having at the moment is that he current GoSL is not willing to give the Tamils their autonomy and not really taking the steps to resolve the issue forever.

Ask Rajapakse and he blames the Tamil parties. If talking is not working, then the question becomes what else can we do to put some pressure on? So the vote against SL was to convey our unhappiness and add a bit of pressure. NSA also provided a more stern prodding which forced Rajapakse to commit more.

The lankans do not see the GOI as an independent and fair minded agency but as a biased interlocutor on behalf of local Tamil interests which are themselves influenced by offshore players deeply inimical to the interests of lanka.

Unless GOI rapidly sheds that image we will get no traction on the island.

[Philip]

I have over the years often described the various "Tamil" groups on the island and their origins.Every now and again I feel the need to enlighten members as newer members might be unaware of the complexities.

The war in the island on the "Tamil" side was waged principally by the "Jaffna" Tamils in the north-for a time who also roped in the Tamils in the east,but did not involve the large number of plantation Tamils in the hill country called "Indian Tamils" and the trading Tamil/S.Indian community in Colombo sometimes called "Colombo Chetties".
The Jaffna Tamils were the first Tamils/ethnic group to be educated in English by American foreign missionaries during the British Raj,and because of this factor,dominated the civil services and were a loyal asset to the Raj in running the island.The Sinhalese minorities (not the predominant Govigama community/landowners) were later educated at British universities for the same purpose,but the JTs dominated the services well after Independence and tried hard to maintain their dominance despite being only 17% of the population.This led to the pendulum swinging the other way after independence when the suppressed Sinhalese began to demand their genuine rights as the majority community.

The northern Jaffna Tamils have a tremendous superiority complex over all the other Tamil groups in the island,considering them inferior especially the "Indian Tamils" in the plantations,the so-celled indentured labour that the British brought from S.India to run the plantations in Ceylon and around the world.The Jaffna Tamils also consider themselves superior to Tamils in Tamilnadu and speak a slightly diff. dialect (in the Dutch census they are described as Tamils of Malabar descent).This why they received no support from the lakhs of plantation Tamils who were well organised under banner of the CWC (Ceylon Workers Congress) and the leadership of the late Mr.Thondaman,whose son now leads the party.The CWC has steadily improved the lot of the plantation Tamils by deals with the ruling party in Colombo of the day.

It was a prominent Jaffna Tamil politician ,the late GG Ponnambalam who advised and encouraged the first PM DS Senanayake to remove the civic rights/citizenship of the plantation Tamils ,because he was afraid of their political power if they organised themselves and this removal of rights led to the issue of "stateless" Tamils in the island.DS happily did so.A festering sore until Indira Gandhi and Mrs. Bandaranaike resolved it.As for GGP's son Kumar P,whom I met on several occasions,he in the aftermath of the '83 anti-Tamil riots was more interested in buying model train (his passion) sets from affected Tamils than giving succour to their needs (told to me first person)! he was later tragically assassinated in Colombo.

Despite the huge amount of both moral and material help that India gave the Jaffna Tamils in the aftermath of '85,the LTTE/Prabhakaran eliminated all the other Tamil militant groups who were ideological in nature.Some BR members have also shown the close so-called "Christian" links of the LTTE with certain western powers.He also eliminated all moderate Tamil politicians-in fact anyone who stood in his way was eliminated and that included Rajiv Gandhi and the IPKF.Prabhakaran and his band of JTs had little respect or regard for India and the LTTE and its diaspora continue to do so.It is unfortunate that venal,scheming Tamil politicos in TNadu continue to support the LTTE and its dream of Eelam,easily forgetting the huge damage and wounds it caused to India.

After the extermination of the LTTE,I predicted that the LTTE/Eelamists would regroup in Tamilnadu and S.India,and warned of the same as it would have serious bearings upon our security and encourage fissiparious tendencies.It has all come to pass.The tactic of using human rights abuses to disgrace the GOSL of the day,is being executed with the active connivance of the west.The Lankans refused to allow the west to save their catspaw fuhrer Prabhakaran and the LTTE top heriarchy and are now in its crosshairs.Such impudence is unheard of and cannot be left as an example to other nations who defy the US,thus an example must be made of Sri Lanka.This is causing the Lankans to jump into the PRC camp,who are only too willing to provide Rajpakse with considerable aid and diplomatic support.The GOI has done precious little to stem the rising influence of the Chinese,by its pathetic appeasement of the seditious TN Eelamist politicos.

One must view the entire Lankan situation from the wider perspective of control over S.India and the subcontinent thereby,where the Tamilnadu tiger "tail" is being used to wag the Indian lion! Sri Lanka is a stepping stone into the Indian subcontinent,the prize is domination of India and altering its independent destiny to follow the course of western/US "expeditionary diplomacy" ,especially in the Asia-Pacific context,where a rising China is contesting dominance of the Asia-Pacific region with the US.An economically and militarily weakened America and Europe,from over a fruitless decade of waging war in the Muslim world,needs to corral India onto its side of willing serfs like Oz,able to provide both the manpower and material in aiding the west in stopping the Chinese advance.

[svenkat]

Philip Sir,
How large is the Colombo Chetties community? Any estimates? Are they Indian citizens or Lankans? Are they in any way conected to tamil chettiars(who themselves belong to more than one caste)?Do they have connections to TN? One does not hear about them in TN mainstream media(Ananda Vikatan,Kumudam,Sun TV,Dinathanthi).Any web links or source about them? Whats the origin and 'composition' of these communities?

Were they affected in 83 riots and subsequent upheavals? How have they been faring in lanka? And how influential are they in Colombo? How do they view the situation in lanka?

Your inputs will be very much appreciated.Thanks in Advance.

[Sachin]

A long interview KP one of the higher ups in the LTTE and in charge of arms procurement

So is this fellow K.P not in prison? This chap was one of the sole surviving members of the LTTE gang (other than people who had moved away from LTTE like Col. Karuna). Reading through the article, looks like K.P has smelt the coffee after the "treatment" he may have got from SL agencies.

As I see it, SL Govt. seems to have ensured that none of the LTTE head-honchos (including their families) ever strike again. The video clippings on the shooting of Prabhakaran Jr., does invoke sympathy. But what gurantee was there, that another long civil war would not be started using this fellow's name? It may sound cruel but as a government responsible for its citizen GoSL did a thorough cleaning job.

[chetak]

A long interview KP one of the higher ups in the LTTE and in charge of arms procurement

So is this fellow K.P not in prison? This chap was one of the sole surviving members of the LTTE gang (other than people who had moved away from LTTE like Col. Karuna). Reading through the article, looks like K.P has smelt the coffee after the "treatment" he may have got from SL agencies.

As I see it, SL Govt. seems to have ensured that none of the LTTE head-honchos (including their families) ever strike again. The video clippings on the shooting of Prabhakaran Jr., does invoke sympathy. But what gurantee was there, that another long civil war would not be started using this fellow's name? It may sound cruel but as a government responsible for its citizen GoSL did a thorough cleaning job.

lots of fellows here seem to be having a problem wrapping their heads around that very simple idea, saar.

AFAIK, no video clipping of the "shooting" but only before and after pictures with a lot of inference in between.

Good that turds like VP et al got taken out of the gene pool. At least the kid got popped on a full stomach, can't say as much for the thousands of poor brainwashed, terrified, hungry, lonely and desperate child soldiers that papa VP caused to be taken out by his military genius. Notice how the VPs, papa and son were obese & very well fed? even right up to the very last?

The very people that they claimed to be fighting for are still today, going hungry in lanka as they were when VP was around. Weren't the parents of VP quietly shipped back to lanka from India after the dust had settled? Any one have some inputs on this??

[svenkat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negombo_Tamils

The main feature of the Negombo Tamils is the continuing process of assimilation into the majority Sinhalese ethnic group known as Sinhalisation. According to L.J.B.Turner, although the distinction between Sinhalese and Tamils of the present day Sri Lanka is so marked but in the past there was considerable fusion between these ethnic groups. According to him the results of this fusion are most obvious on the western coast between Negombo and Puttalam, where a large proportion of the villagers, though they call themselves Sinhalese, speak Tamil, and are, undoubtedly, of Tamil descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Chetty

The Chetty ‘Olanders

But the Colombo Chetties I’d known in school and while in the dentist’s chair, persons with names like Casie Chetty, appeared to think of themselves as Sinhalese.

S.Muthiah,a distinguished amateur historian writes the above.

Using google,it transpires that Colombo chetties do not think of themselves as tamils,but as a distinct community at peace with lanka.

[member_20292]

we are surrounded by "racist unstable states" on three (?) sides already and yet you us want to take on the most benign of the three, the most friendly and the one with the best cultural fit to us?

EXACTLY!
Well articulated.

[SwamyG]

Wake up and smell the coffee.

we are surrounded by "racist unstable states" on three (?) sides already and yet you us want to take on the most benign of the three, the most friendly and the one with the best cultural fit to us?

Benign? How?

[SwamyG]

I think as Indians we should all be proud of steps taken by Govt of India in restoring normalcy. All Indians individually and collectively should be proud of any such schemes, regardless of selective 'international' propaganda.

As long as said Indians understand that foreign relations is a central and not a state subject

And, everybody has the right to influence the center. Or is it just GoSL that reserves the right.

[chetak]

{quote="vishvak"}I think as Indians we should all be proud of steps taken by Govt of India in restoring normalcy. All Indians individually and collectively should be proud of any such schemes, regardless of selective 'international' propaganda.{/quote}

As long as said Indians understand that foreign relations is a central and not a state subject

And, everybody has the right to influence the center. Or is it just GoSL that reserves the right.

Our supreme national interest should be more important than TN politics.

[Javee]

Rightly or wrongly, in a democratic country like India, people can and will influence the govt, this aint China.

[Philip]

The "Colombo Chetties" are a motley group of Indians predominantly in the trading community.They are Tamil and Telegu chettiars/chettys,Gujaratis and Sindhis,etc.They have been lumped together under this sobriquet even though they have varying ethnic origins,but were more recent entrants into the island,mainly during British times and prospered very well.Without mentioning names,they have headed the stock market,chamber of commerce,etc.,presidents of various foreign-Lankan friendship societies,but have a v.close relationship and family ties with India and the expat/diplomatic Indian community. They generally also have business interests in India too,especially after the '83 riots when some relocated to India to give other family members refuge if the situ had worsened.Some of them have interests in ASEAN countries too.

They are generally discreet,conservative,shun publicity,and are pillars of the business community of Colombo,very hardworking and much respected and admired.Just one name,Soli Captain-a Parsi, is one of the shrewdest investors/businessmen in the island and a leading socialite.One of the children of one the leading such families in the island is hitched to that of a child of one of the leading families of the country in one of our metros.This group have little or no ties at all with any of the other Tamil groups in the island,especially the Eelamists. In fact Vijay Amrithraj's wife comes from a prominent such Colombo family.I had the opportunity to dance with her and her sister ,beauty queens both,before she was married when I was in my "salad" days!

PS:Lanka is basically a very benign nation.The vast majority of people are very god-fearing,which is why they put up with so much of crap from their political leaders.But,as with the famous "bell curve" in psychology,and in any community worldwide,there is that % of people who are trouble makers.What has not been commented upon by analysts over the last 25/30 years-and this July will mark the 30th anniversary of the ethnic riots,is that enormous mischief was perpetrated by foreign powers,mainly western in the period prior to the riots and in their aftermath,where they backed both sides in the conflict,but were looking to carve out an independent entity in the N-East with Trinco as the prize.Those were days at the height of Cold War tensions.Many such NGOs like the Asia Foundation,etc.,were active in the island,esp. in the north.

If you see every day at Colombo airport the hundreds of simple Buddhist pilgrims with smiles on their faces,accompanied by a few monks,all going on pilgrimage to India to the holy places of Buddhism,you have to pinch yourself as to why the island has had so much of ethnic strife.Bishop Heber,writing in British times put it perfectly in one of his hymns,with this sentence about Ceylon,...."where every prospect pleases and only man is vile".

[Suraj]

Rightly or wrongly, in a democratic country like India, people can and will influence the govt, this aint China.

Absolutely. And that cuts both ways - people who want to act on the behalf of SL Tamils as well as those who do not.

[Gus]

Gus ji,

if it were really your name, I would have been a bit surprised.

reply in OT thread.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1416508

[Varoon Shekhar]

Philip, excellent. I always suspected something didn't feel quite right about all this ethnic strife, violence and perhaps most of all, the virulent anti-India sentiments expressed in cyberspace by Sinhalese, including supposedly professing Buddhists. It's a small percentage of very vocal, demogogic, paranoid Sinhalese who are responsible for this rubbish. Interestingly, throughout the worst years of the ethnic strife and separatist insurgency, India had very good to excellent economic and political relations with Sri Lanka. India and Sri Lanka see eye-to-eye on 99% of issues.

[SwamyG]

Our supreme national interest should be more important than TN politics.

1. You dismiss it as TN politics, sure some TN politics have used SL tamilians' plight to their political advantages. But that does not in any way reduce the suffering of the SL tamilians, or in any way make GoSL's actions over the years any noble/ethical.

2. An amusing observation in this dhaaga is; some members are quick to point out that tamilians side with SL tamilians because of emotional/ethnic reasons. I see why emotions/ethnicity should not factor when it comes to human relations. On top of it, some other members support GoSL because of cultural reasons. The cultural reasons stem from the fact that Buddhists and Hindus originated from the same area and Indic culture. This is because for some reason they believe SL tamilians are all Christians. There is a clear case of double standards, no?

It boils down to simple reasons to help - Strategic and Humanitarian. And if somebody was going to question my motives of help because of them being fellow tamilians, my only answer is "So ?"

[Theo_Fidel]

Is it even clear what our 'supreme national interest' is.

It was this same 'supreme national interest' that handed kacha tivu over to lanka over the vehement objection of TN, something that has come back to bite us in the a$$ again and again. So excuse me if I think the rest of India lacks understanding of this area as well.....

[SwamyG]

Thus spake some one.....

The situation in Sri Lanka shows no signs of improvement. It continues speedily to deteriorate. Bitterness is intensifying. Senseless violence is escalating. Extreme positions are becoming more and more rigid and the country has almost reached the point of no return. Bloodshed, genocide, economic ruin and social misery has been the inevitable result of the present unfortunate trends.

In the opinion of XXX the government and people of India cannot but be concerned with the unfortunate developments in so close a neighbouring country. The sorry condition of a large number of Tamilian citizens and residents of Sri Lanka, the hostile discrimination persistently practised against them in various matters such as education, employment under the State, economic opportunities and land settlement, and their ruthless suppression by the instrumentalities of the State inevitably evoke sympathy of the people of India and cause ripples of resentment and anger. The Government of India cannot for ever remain insensitive to the acute social tensions that are building up inside India. Apart from the historic ties of ethnic origin and affinity and blood relationships that fully justify Indian involvement in the destiny of Tamil Lankans, no civilised government can turn a Nelson's eye to widespread, persistent and organised violation of basic human rights of fellow human beings in any part of the world more so in a country only few miles away from ourselves.

The diplomatic initiative taken by the Government of India to help resolve the ethnic issue in Sri Lanka have failed completely. On account of the ineffective mediator y efforts of the government of India, the plight of Sri Lanka Tamils has only worsened; there is continuing gross violation of elementary human rights in that country, inevitably affecting our domestic scene. Our Government finds itself without any meaningful diplomatic options. It is ironic that, despite being consistently outmanoeuvered by Sri Lanka, our government continues to categorise Indo-Sri Lankan relations as "never having been better". The fact is that bilateral relations with Sri Lanka have never been as strained as at present.

Now substitute XXX with "B.J.P" and read it again, and click on this to see who uttered these words and might want to read the above paragraphs again.

[member_20317]

The point that cross border linkages should be acknowledged and cultivated makes sense to me. I would like to believe that, that was the reason GoI of the time felt the need to intervene. And then because of 1 unknown-unknown of those times, we are left with this baby in ICU. Which for me is an indication of the limits of an open ended danda policy.

From hereon giving both the peoples a chance to come and work together under their own set up seems like the only possible way forward. Exception arising if it appears that Sinhalas are acting like first rate sobs. But that is only a claim right now. Also if that really is the case then sure Indians should doubtless intervene again and again....

Most likely there will be attempt from certain quarters to rein in SL and Indians would be using it to further pressurize the SL to strike an internal balance. Again only because of the cross border linkages. Most likely SL establishment knows this and they too would like to avoid the fate of Fidel Castro taking a panga with India.

But as I see it there is a case for a change in the manner of Protsaahan that SL would need from us. Diplomacy has not been abandoned and most likely will not be.

There was time when Sinhalas fate was not in Sinhala hands. That is not the case now. Then there was a time when even the citizenship of a certain section of SL Tamils was undecided and that got decided. Then it looked like PV and LTTE have hijacked SL Tamil issue. That is not the case anymore. In much the same manner there is a possibility that the internal balance would be achieved again.

But these things need to be protected from people who are here only for tangential matters. Matters other than gradually stabilizing relationships. Basically as I am learning on this issue India will have to keep the Sinhalas and foreigners from taking irreconcilable stances while at the same time supplying appropriate Protsaahan to the Sinhalas to provide for SL Tamils.

JM2P

[Philip]

"Acute tensions",which after a smooth happy Katchativu annual festival,where thousands of Indian fishermen went to the island,where excellent arrangements had been made by the SL authorities,which say reports helped lowers tensions,appears to be within the bellies of the bellicose Tamilnadu parties,each wanting to appear more loyal to the Tamil cause than their rivals.Vaiko's recent publc rant,where he called Rajapakse a "maanster",surely deserved an Oscar for a foreign language! He is immense entertainment.Such a braveheart must then take his fight to the "maanster" himself,but you know the famous saying about cowards...

PS:The only ones being terrified at this rhetoric are the Lankan equiv. of our aam admi,the "sarong johnnies".The simple folk read such bombast and get worried.In the old days expected Indian troops to arrive at any moment.Each trip I made to the islad,I was always asked ,"machan,when are you guys invading us?" That was when IG was in power and these days,while none expect the "house-pet" of 10 Janpath to do anything more than mew,they do fear a resurgence in pro-LTTE activity in TN and a resumption of arms manufacture and training in the state with a weak central govt.CM Jayalalaths is held in more awe than the house-pet,while the Kalaignar and the would-be Oscar nominee are considered little but of nuicance value.

PPS: Varoon,the late little lamented pres. Premadasa was a US catspaw.He was an out-an-out anti-Indian individual,who boasted that he was not a descendent of Prince Vijaya and his clan,who were exiled from Kaling and made Lankan their home,but claimed that he was a descendent of the ethnic tribes who were of the island mthe Nagas and the Yakshasmwhen the immigrants arrived.The Nagas and Yakshas,according to the Mahavamsa,were on the iland before the arrival of Prine VIjaya.After he arrived,the practice of inter-marrying with the daughters of S.Indian kings became very popular.

[Javee]

PS:Lanka is basically a very benign nation.The vast majority of people are very god-fearing,which is why they put up with so much of crap from their political leaders.But,as with the famous "bell curve" in psychology,and in any community worldwide,there is that % of people who are trouble makers

Saar, a small % or a large one, things happened to the tamils in the last 50+ years is not all propaganda by the western powers. The displacement started even before the riots., beginning with the plantation tamils. If not for Jaffna tamils TFTA attitude, the island would've had a good political solution a long time ago. GoI shot itself on their foot at that time, by agreeing to repatriate plantation tamils. The Singhalese have gone from bad to worse in their attitude of SL Tamils, Tamils in general and India as a whole. It is my viewpoint listening to various paanwala's, so YMMV.

If you see every day at Colombo airport the hundreds of simple Buddhist pilgrims with smiles on their faces,accompanied by a few monks,all going on pilgrimage to India to the holy places of Buddhism,you have to pinch yourself as to why the island has had so much of ethnic strife.

Well, for the last 25 odd years, Rameshwaram received 1000's of refugees with nothing but a bag of clothes from Srilanka. We still have refuee colonies from where I come from and no they are not a pleasant sight, unlike the pilgrims in the Colombo airport.

[Neela]

As I see it, SL Govt. seems to have ensured that none of the LTTE head-honchos (including their families) ever strike again. The video clippings on the shooting of Prabhakaran Jr., does invoke sympathy. But what gurantee was there, that another long civil war would not be started using this fellow's name? It may sound cruel but as a government responsible for its citizen GoSL did a thorough cleaning job.

It does not sound cruel. It is worse. It is brutal cleansing. And why stop there? Should SL not then wipe out every Tamil family whenever they gain prominence just to be sure?
Please tell me how there is a guarantee that no Tamil group will now emerge elsewhere wanting to avenge after seeing these cowards shooting people at point blank range.?
And look at the fallout in the international scene that SL has to deal with now? Do you really think this is a wise strategy ?


The Indian army is succeeding in Kashmir not because of overwhelming force. It is a multipronged approach of force, intelligence, proper monitoring of key people, winning hearts of the local populace , being compassionate as well as quick policies to help affected families move forward.

If SL does not know how to show compassion, how to handle a small kid and see a proper recuperation , how to plan a future for a kid of a terrorist, it does not deserve any respect. It has just shown it is a primeval killing force ...not very different from groups in Pakistan.

[Sanku]

The Indian army is succeeding in Kashmir not because of overwhelming force. It is a multipronged approach of force, intelligence, proper monitoring of key people, winning hearts of local populations , being compassionate as well as quick policies to help affected families move forward. .

I hope you did not bring out the comparison, but now that you have, I would say that SL success in wiping off LTTE and ultras is far more durable than our success in Kashmir.

Our success are at best tenuous, sure there is a improvement, but the incidences of stone throwing, killing of sarpanchs, implementation of Sharia, continued harassment of KPs and their failure to return etc are all too glaring.

We have at best a uneasy stalemate, at great cost and under constant Mil force presence on the borders to stem pakistan. A good comparison would be with the destruction of the Khalistani terror in terms of success w.r.t. to SL success.

I am all for implementing the KPS Gill/Rajapakse model in Kashmir personally -- and no I do not think that the SL army killed the boy, its propagandu, if they did, there would be video of shots being fired too, not a patched up photo scene. And also even if SL forces did kill the boy, I am fully aware that KPS Gill did not call for murder of innocents, so no I am not comparing the morality level of Indian forces and SL forces.

The greater point is different -- one, a overwhelming application of targeted force is required. -- Two Kashmir is not solved. Three -- SL has finished the Tamil problem once and for all. Nothing is going to happen in SL now. India has burnt its hand and will no longer support terror, the small window that LTTE had to make deals with west is gone, and SL Sinhalas have moved forward.

So net net, the SL tamils and Sinhalas need to make it work peacefully, there is no other option, and the attempts by the west to exacerbate old wounds and foment troubles are not going to work.

What was, was, -- now the focus is future.

[Sanku]

Extrapolating the period of violence to future in SL is WRONG. As far as anyone can see, over last 2+ years, no children are being shot (assuming they were in the first place) -- and all seems to be heading to a relatively peaceful future.

The period of war was on which can not, and should not be allowed to overshadow the future.

[Neela]

I am all for implementing the KPS Gill/Rajapakse model in Kashmir personally -- and no I do not think that the SL army killed the boy, its propagandu, if they did, there would be video of shots being fired too, not a patched up photo scene. And no even if SL forces did kill the boy, I am fully aware that KPS Gill did not call for murder of innocents.

.

we all know which lot indulges in CTs. Sanku seems to have enlisted there.
Saar, there is a reason why a series of pictures are shown.


I agree that asymmetric guerrilla type wars need far more cold approaches but I would not extend it to captives and kids.

-----

Oh and I think the tamil issue in SL is not over.....yet.

[Varoon Shekhar]

Philip, very true about Premadasa. But what is intriguing, is that despite this( rather contrived) anti-India sentiment from Premadasa, the economic and political relations between India and Sri Lanka were very good, even in the worst years of the insurgency and separatism, and the height of the 'cold war'. There was significant trade and investment, and no restrictions on travel by either country. What accounts for that? In fact, unlike with Pakistan or Bangladesh, there has never been a serious political or economic problem between India and Sri Lanka. Some raving, ranting and paranoia about 'when India is going to invade us', but no problem, as in real restrictions. The Tamil refugee problem was distressing, though.

[SwamyG]

I love BRF, it helps one identify bad and arguments; detecting patterns, teaches to conenct dots ityadi . Let us look at Philip's two artful and master posts.

In the first post { http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1416068 } he paints a picture of tamilians in SL thus:
1. War waged by Ceylon Tamils, and not by Indian tamils.
2. Ceylon Tamils were educated in English by Christian missionaries.
3. Ceylon Tamils think they are superior to Indian tamils.
4. LTTE had Christian links.
5. Tamil groups would regroup in India and cause security problems.

In the second post { http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1416459 }
1. The Chetty community are all hard working, conservative and pillars of business community.
2. And as a "PS" he adds that Lankans are usually god-fearing.
3. Only a minority are trouble makers
4. Buddhist pilgrims in the airport are all smiles and are eager to visit Buddhist places in India.

What he has said pretty much aligns with whatever I have read or heard. So what is wrong with these arguments? It is the alarming and tantalizing question marks (so to speak) that he leaves in these narration.

Communities across this planet have superiority and inferiority complex over others, and even among themselves. So the SL tamilians are no different. True the Ceylon tamilians learnt English and took jobs in the Government sector, more than the Sinhalese. Sure some tamilians converted to Christianity.

However, so did some Sinhalese convert to Christianity. After Independence, Sinhalese picked English and went after the Government jobs - there is nothing wrong in it.

Sure Chettiars are hard working, they were known for their 'banking' system in Burma. They ventured inland where no British banks would go. Some give the Burmese Chettiars lots of credit for making Burma a 'rice bowl', it is said if not for their hard work and money Burma would not been where it was in those days.

God fearing, yes people are god-fearing. So are Pakistanis and so was Portugal when it went on inquisitions in Goa or when it converted the Ceylon Tamilians. Before the American and British presence in SL, it was the Portugal and Dutch who had colonies in the land. Oh well before the Arab traders had their presence in some quarters.

God-fearing means nothing, when fellow humans are not treated with respect. A lot is made about Ceylon Tamilians, however after Independence, it was the Indian Tamilians who had to move their arm and leg to get citizenship - which they were denied. They had to prove at least two generations of their ancestors were born in SL. This was a little after 1948. And in India birth certificates were not compulsory until 1969. So after the Indian tamilians faced the first backlash, the Ceylon tamilians faced discrimination in government jobs, economic opportunities, social stigma ityadi.

I am not sure where God Buddha, Muruga, Jesus and Allah were; probably they were having a get together drinking beer. Wait does Buddha and Allah drink alcohol? Never mind.

The argument is bad because it does not matter if tamilians thought less of each other groups, it is flawed because a country should not discriminate its citizens. It does not matter if the majority of Buddhist Sinhalese were peace loving, roamed around with smiles on their faces and worshiped Buddha, when their government moved from one discrimination effort to another. Well, even Vajapayee thinks so. Isn't Vajapayee considered one of the best PMs of India. Oh well, I am guilty here...I am using the logical fallacy 'Appealing to Authority'.

The point is painting a picture of one set of tamilians being petty-minded, while painting the other group as hard working, god-fearing does not justify the discrimination. The majority of population being peaceful, with smiling monks in the airport ityadi does not justify the hatred and discrimination perpetuated by GoSL.

And finally, if nothing scares you Philip throws in finally the "fear". Tamilians tail is a stepping stone into India to take over India. Fear, the evil Christians. Fear the evil Americans. Now what is wrong with the fear, well it is just like mommy scares the baby refusing to eat its dinner. EJ havoc is evident in Andhra and Tamil Nadu. EJs do not need SL to conquer India. EJs already have a handle of our North East, they already have their hand in all the under-developed regions of India. Some might want to google the word "10-40 window". So if some one wants to adopt the scare tactics - they need to be informed; India is already a rich playground for EJs. Check the money pouring into AP and TN. I had some links in IF way in the past.

[RajeshA]

I am not sure where God Buddha, Muruga, Jesus and Allah were; probably they were having a get together drinking beer. Wait does Buddha and Allah drink alcohol? Never mind.

OT,

which Buddha?

[Sanku]

we all know which lot indulges in CTs. Sanku seems to have enlisted there.
Saar, there is a reason why a series of pictures are shown.
.

Umm!! Who what!!!

Disagree please. Anyone who could get these before and after type shots, could have also easily got during. This appears to clearly put something together to "send a message"

[member_20317]

SwamyG ji,

The 2 themes dealt with by Philip ji are wrongful hijack of the common cause by LTTE and the presense of reasonable elements on the Sinhala side. You are making this second part sound like some CT. I had raised the query about, what are the people like, on the other side of the table. Is it too difficult to believe that the input was for my benefit and for those like myself.

I had in turn added how the past was worse still and the future need not be so esp. considering India can pressurise SL on this.

Conspiracy Theorists like myself would be more then happy to see India invade a few of the countries likely to fall in the String of pearls. Saalon ne jaan kha rakhi hai. I hold back expressing my desire only because I know there are people in most of these countries who have had a long and deep relationship with India. And it is on account of this that I wish for peace in SL before anything else.

..........................

BTW

In any case is there any deliverable that some of you Non-CT types, would like to mention. What would you like to see India do (distinct from your desires for end result) and have us support.

[SwamyG]

Ravi saar: There is nothing wrong in presenting information for your or larger benefit, we all stand to gain onlee. I don't see any wrongful hijack by LTTE (which is obvious, and I doubt anyone has contention) as the core message in those posts. Fine you asked questions and he replied, he does not talk about Christian Sinhalese, the low-country Sinhalese vs Up-country Sinhalese, how the up-country Sinhalese are more conservative and the low-country because of trade and European exposure are less conservative ityadi. The so called indigenous people Veddas, Yakkas ityadi, the Muslims ityadi.

Granted one cannot expect him to write a book of entire SLan history here, but the way he portrayed the people are neatly into two groups (a) tamils as squabbling among themselves and (b) the smiling monks, and peaceful nature of some. This entirely ignores the fact that GoSL have systematically been discriminating a section of SLankans.

[Theo_Fidel]

Instability in lanka will remain as long as Tamil are expected to become Singhalese before they become sri lankan. This is not hard to understand.

You have to think of it from the core Sir Lankan Tamil position. In conversation with several of them, their position is that they were on the Island first. The singhalese immigrated later. Recent DNA testing has shown that there is an element of truth in this claim. It will be interesting to see if the Singhalese can get them to back down.