Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2010

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Atri
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Atri »

Samay wrote:
ramana wrote:Has anyone noticed that the image of a jihadi in US is now Paki whereas right after 9/11 it was Arab.

Earlier it as Muslim. Now its Paki.

In a way the poison is perceived to be Paki.

Very puranesque!
arabs will get relief,even iranians will be happy to donate whatever burden they have being a muslim nation ,to oblige to sunni wahabi duties
pakis had actually stopped american beast killing other muslim ummah by offering themselves,..
its a feat in itself ,jinnah's pakistan is very near to achieve its mission.
These two posts are keepers, IMO... If west has to choose, they will sacrifice TSP and leave alone rest of the ummah. Very convenient for everybody.. TSP has volunteered for this, and this is what they shall get.. The rump of Islam will be saved at the cost of these alienated Indians..

I really admire the political acumen of Islam as a system; one of the best in world.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by AjayKK »

Paki wish list written by pseudo Indian as a part of Aman tamasha.

Before dealing with Kashmir, India & Pakistan should try six easy steps to peace.
SINGLE-CITY VISAS

ACTION Change the visa regime along the lines of those with other friendly countries; grant tourist and student visas; give preference to business visas; offer visa on arrival to frequent travelers who have already been security cleared

REACTION More people-to-people contact; will give a fillip to trade and business; a boon for families divided across the two countries; promote tourism in both countries; student exchange programmes will make for better understanding.

IMPRISONED FISHERMEN

ACTION The fishermen – and their boats – should be released – under Article 73 of the UN convention on Laws of the Seas, after making them pay a fine for the transgression. Consular access should be provided; they should be released after they complete their sentence.

REACTION It would be a confidencebuilding measure, reduce suspicion overall and would be one less emotive issue to agonize over.


JOURNALIST VISA

ACTION Grant visas to correspondents of national newspapers, magazines and television channels on each side of the border.

REACTION More journalists means more on-theground reportage back to the other country, rather than rumour and speculation. Information cuts ignorance, which gives rise to bigotry and hatred.

NO MOBILE ROAMING

ACTION Allow all mobile phone companies to provide the roaming facility along the lines of arrangements with other SAARC nations, with necessary security pre-conditions.

REACTION More business for mobile phone companies; more connectivity for people in both countries, which should make for more goodwill and is better for bilateral trade.

THE SIACHEN ISSUE

ACTION Declare Siachen a no-conflict zone

REACTION The end of a 26-year battle for domination of a frozen region where thousands of soldiers have died. Defence expenditure could be trimmed; friction would reduce at the border and the glacier’s ecological system be protected.

THE SIR CREEK DISPUTE

ACTION Set up joint ventures in the region. The UN should put pressure on both governments by declaring the creek “international waters”.

REACTION Clear demarcation of land and maritime boundaries
Which Indian journo worth his lifafa would ask the UN to put pressure on both governments by declaring the creek “international waters”? Almost looks like a Piss Process Plan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by SSridhar »

AjayKK wrote:Which Indian journo worth his lifafa would ask the UN to put pressure on both governments by declaring the creek “international waters”?
When I saw the Sir Creek 'solution' in the ToI print edition, I was dumbfounded. Indians seem to be in a mood to give away their land. When we are in such a mood, we use terms like 'marshy land' (as though such a place is worth giving up) or 'not a blade of grass grows there' etc.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Altair »

ramana wrote:Has anyone noticed that the image of a jihadi in US is now Paki whereas right after 9/11 it was Arab.

Earlier it as Muslim. Now its Paki.

In a way the poison is perceived to be Paki.

Very puranesque!

I dont want to sound as the most pessimistic nut here,but folks in State dept are masters of spin. Please consider these points.

1. American Public Opinion can be manipulated with the whims of people at foggy bottom.
2. Pakistan is an "all-lie" which needs to be protected for US's long term strategic interests in the region.
3. India is a country which doesn't bend to US as much as US desires. So it can be put away for the moment.

Make no mistake guys,POTUS has his ears to the circle which is not friendly with Injuns. All this talk of Evil and misguided Pakis trying to blowup Times Square et al is just a big dog and pony show. Soon we will hear that they have been done by "misguided elements" instead of "pakistani terrorists"

Pakistanis being termed terrorists can be outdone as soon as the US finds someone else to blame. We,Indians will once again go on shouting form rooftops to do something about the terrorism from purecrapland.
There is only one solution. We must be strong enough to stand upto Unkil,Aunty and Dragon. Until then we will be played upon.period.
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Re: The Pakistani Dilemma

Post by SSridhar »

Pakistan Stands Exposed - Anees Jillani
The fact of the matter is clear to all: Pakistan presently is faced with two kinds of terrorists, those who are fighting the local security forces and waging a war within the country, and those who are fighting the ISAF (International Security Assistance Force), led by the Americans, in Afghanistan and perhaps aided one way or the other by a section of our intelligence set-up.
Both are one and the same. They are just presenting two faces of the Hydra. The leaders of these ‘two kinds of terrorists’ have been together before in Afghanistan. They fought the Russians and/or they took part in the intra-mujahideen war after the Russian withdrawal. Their Big Boss, Osama bin Laden, has funded many projects of the ‘bad Taliban’. LeT, HuJI, HuM, SSP and JeM have benefitted immensely from the support of Al Qaeda. They also took part in the governance of Afghanistan under the Taliban or they were ‘advisors’ to Mullah Omar. They have the same worldview. Where, then, is the difference ?

Again, if Pakistanis think that a 'section of the intelligence agencies' is helping only the ISAF-facing terrorists ('good Taliban'), that is patently wrong too. That section that is supporting the 'good Taliban' are also implicitly and explicitly supporting the 'bad Taliban'. People like Hamid Gul, Javid Nasser, Mahmoud Ahmed, Aslam Beg, Nadeem Taj, Sultan Tarar - to name a few - have significant following within the PA/ISI. These people bitterly oppose the Pakistani collaboration with the US. Why shouldn't they be instigating their resources against their own State ? It is as ridiculous not to expect support for the 'Fourth Jihad' from within the PA/ISI as Pakistani claims that they are not involved in terrorism against India, their mortal enemy, after they have been caught red-handed all over the world for that.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by SSridhar »

abhishek_sharma wrote:Pakistan and Times Sq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/opini ... istof.html
That article, though I appreciate the intention of the author, has quite a few inaccuracies, IMHO.
The public education system, in particular, is a catastrophe. I’ve dropped in on Pakistani schools where the teachers haven’t bothered to show up (because they get paid anyway), and where the classrooms have collapsed (leaving students to meet under trees). Girls have been particularly left out. In the tribal areas, female literacy is 3 percent.
The author has failed to mention the most important reform required in the education system, namely the change of curriculum. Building schools or educating girls will not lead to a better Pakistan (and by corollary a safer world), if the curriculum is not fixed. If the Grade X Biology textbook starts with a Koranic verse on jihad, that country is doomed. If Pakistani children will only learn about jihad and kafir even in a mainstream school because that is what the curriculum wants to teach them, it is better that they remain uneducated.
There’s an instructive contrast with Bangladesh, which was part of Pakistan until it split off in 1971. At that time, Bangladesh was Pakistani’s impoverished cousin and seemed pretty much hopeless. But then Bangladesh began climbing a virtuous spiral by investing in education, of girls in particular.
That is an unfair comparison. The Bengali population of East Pakistan, because of historical reasons, had always been more forward-looking than their West Pakistan counterparts. Even after 1947, the influences on them were positive enough to steer them to a better course.
We continue to be oblivious to trade possibilities. Pro-American Pakistanis fighting against extremism have been pleading for years for the United States to cut tariffs on Pakistani garment exports, to nurture the textile industry and stabilize the country. Pakistan’s foreign minister, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, told me that his top three goals are “market access, market access, market access.” But Washington wants to protect North Carolina textile mills, so we won’t cut tariffs on Pakistani goods. The technical word for that: myopia.
The quota system as part of GATT under which Pakistan benefitted was withdrawn only in c. 2005. Terrorism had been well and truly and deeply entrenched in the Pakistani psyche much before that. 'Market access' is a mantra that Pakistan has been repeating to gain undue advantage.
It has been reassuring to see the work of people like Greg Mortenson, whose brave school-building in Pakistan and Afghanistan was chronicled in “Three Cups of Tea.” Ditto for Developments in Literacy, or D.I.L., which builds schools for girls in Pakistan that are the most exhilarating things I’ve seen there.

It costs $1,500 to sponsor a D.I.L. classroom for a year, and that’s just about the best long-term counterterrorism investment available.
Again, without a change in curriculum and without disabusing Pakistani minds that jihad in the 21st century was not tolerated and that Pakistan is not the leader of the 'ummah' and that the nation cannot simply survive on hatred as a state policy, there is no redemption.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by CRamS »

Satya_anveshi wrote:a lot of spin given by the commentator in this article.

Obama deflects criticism of Pakistan
Indeed, the most egregious one being

While the US leader acknowledged that Pakistan was now overcoming this habit to also recognise extremists as a major threat, he forgot to mention that India had an equally unhealthy obsession with Pakistan.
All TSP has to do is stop LET and other scum from entering India, and I am sure India will then oblige: ignore TSP with the contempt it deserves. Except probably MMS, Aman ki Tamasha crowd, and Sania Mirza.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Gagan »

D-uh!
India wants the IB to be defined at the middle of sir creek, since India argues correctly that it is a navigable water body. The UN convention states that navigable waterbodies have boundries at their center.

The pakistanis claim the whole area.

Now there is news of Oil present in that area.

What this guy is suggesting is in line with India's position.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Manny »

I thought this is an important video to watch.

"What Girls in pak think about India "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpbBIdu9 ... re=related

Don't stop half way, watch the whole thing.

Manny
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile, today early morning in Massachusetts ...
FBI searches more houses occupied by Pakis in Mass.
Athorities are searching a home on Waverley Avenue in Watertown in connection with the investigation of the attempted bombing in Times Square earlier this month, the FBI said this morning...
<snip>
Baij Joshi, who manages the property for his father, Shubh, said the tenants on the first floor were several Pakistani men, who had lived there "more than two to three years." He said some had spoken recently of taking trips to Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by chetak »

Gagan wrote:D-uh!
India wants the IB to be defined at the middle of sir creek, since India argues correctly that it is a navigable water body. The UN convention states that navigable waterbodies have boundries at their center.

The pakistanis claim the whole area.

Now there is news of Oil present in that area.

What this guy is suggesting is in line with India's position.

Gagan ji,

The creek itself shifts course fairly frequently as it meanders about.

The line drawn extends into the ocean and the EEZ.

There is certainly oil in the ocean bed which is why the porkis want the line drawn from our bank of the creek so that they can glom many hundreds of thousands of square kilometers in the EEZ area extending out to 200 kms.

With pappi jappi, we may yet stupidly gift it away because of the last ditch "you are the bigger brother and so you have to give more" theory the porkis are employing.
Last edited by chetak on 13 May 2010 21:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by RoyG »

Manny wrote:I thought this is an important video to watch.

"What Girls in pak think about India "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpbBIdu9 ... re=related

Don't stop half way, watch the whole thing.

Manny
Unfortunately they aren't in any position to challenge the PA.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

Pakistan court acquits men accused of militant attacks (BBC)
A Pakistani court has acquitted nine men accused of planning two deadly attacks on security targets, including one which killed the army's top medic.

A suicide bomber killed Lt Gen Mushtaq Baig with seven others in February 2008. He is the most senior military official to be killed since 2001. Just weeks earlier, several employees of Pakistan's intelligence agency were killed in a suicide attack on a bus.
"Due to lack of evidence, no charges can be proved against the accused," judge Malik Akram Awan said in the anti-terrorism court in Rawalpindi on Thursday. But the court said the men would be held in "preventative custody" at home because they are still under investigation.

The public prosecutor, Bilal Ahmed, told the BBC they "produced several witnesses and lots of evidence."
The decision comes 10 days after another Pakistani court acquitted four men of being involved in the bombing of Islamabad's Marriott hotel in 2008.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

U.S. problem in one word: Pakistan (Sacramento Bee)
Pakistan is one of those countries - and there are more of them than you might think - whose government does absolutely nothing for its people, except require the payment of taxes and bribes. It offers virtually no social services, and the society is so stratified that it falls into a de facto class structure, much like neighboring India, from which Pakistan was born more 60 years ago. Two-thirds of the nation's people live in the provinces, and they are the "underclass" - ignored by Islamabad, except when they are abused. Medical care is virtually non-existent. And schools, a Pakistani children's advocacy society declared last month, "suffer from the worst forms of negligence, indifference and apathy." The government spends 1 percent of its budget on health-care services, 2 percent on education.
The result in Pakistan is that the vast majority of people are poor and uneducated. Only about one-third of boys make it past elementary school and just over one-quarter of the girls. The average per-capita income is just over $900 a year, a figure that would be far lower if the state's multi-millionaire oligarches did not inflate the average.
UNICEF says 42 percent of the state's children are so malnourished that they suffer from stunting, meaning they are not growing, physically or mentally. Forty-two percent! The damage is permanent. So when children grow up, generally they are poorly educated, and almost half of them have "stunted" intellects. All of them are still aware enough to breath in the anti-American ethos that animates Pakistani society. And right now, 44 percent of Pakistan's population is under 18. In this group is the next generation of angry, violent extremists.
"If you have lost faith in the state," said Adil Najam of Boston University, who writes the blog All Things Pakistan, "anyone who comes along and offers you a glorious future, that is very attractive."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Amber G. »

Apart from the above FBI raid in the (ex) neighborhood of Mushy's son.. there are reports/rumors that several other raids in other areas (eg Long Island)
were carried out this Thursday morning.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by bahdada »

Rahul Shukla wrote:U.S. problem in one word: Pakistan (Sacramento Bee)
Pakistan is one of those countries - and there are more of them than you might think - whose government does absolutely nothing for its people, except require the payment of taxes and bribes. It offers virtually no social services, and the society is so stratified that it falls into a de facto class structure, much like neighboring India, from which Pakistan was born more 60 years ago.

Much like India? I get what he's trying to say but that's statement is just pure conflation especially given the overall context. There is a lot to desire of Indian governing systems but when compared to the Pakilanders our social mobility, freedoms, education and what have you areliterally light years ahead.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

Chile cops raid house of Embassy detainee's friend (AP)
SANTIAGO, Chile — Chilean police on Thursday searched the apartment of an Egyptian man who befriended the Pakistani arrested with traces of bomb-making material at the U.S. Embassy.

Police made no official statements about the raid, but local news media reported that the Egyptian, who attended the same mosque as Mohammed Saif-ur-Rehman Khan, was inside the apartment and was being questioned as part of the investigation.
Authorities have not said what kind of explosives were allegedly involved, though the Chilean newspaper La Segunda reported the substance detected was Tetryl, a compound used to increase the explosive power of TNT.
... Santiago's EuroHotel, where Khan earned about $115 a month in a work-study position...
... Khan came to Chile in January to study Spanish and the hotel industry.
Khan said he was born in Pakistan on Aug. 21, 1982, and told of being the son of a retired doctor and from a middle-class family...
Mohammed Rumie, secretary-general of Chile's Islamic community and spokesman for the As-Salam mosque, told The Associated Press that Khan "came every Friday to the mosque, like all Muslims."

"He didn't appear a conflictive or problematic person — quite the opposite, he was very silent, very calm," Rumie said.

Asked about reports that Khan belonged to Islam's Salafi movement, Rumie said he did not know where the reports had come from and that his As-Salam mosque doesn't adhere to such movements.
Before being taken to jail after a court hearing Tuesday, Khan was driven for a medical checkup and was able to briefly speak to reporters from a window of the police vehicle. "No, I am not a terrorist. I do not have nothing to do with bombs. I am a working man," he said in heavily accented English.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

Amber G. wrote:Apart from the above FBI raid in the (ex) neighborhood of Mushy's son.. there are reports/rumors that several other raids in other areas (eg Long Island) were carried out this Thursday morning.
CNN confirms that individuals and businesses with "Money Courier" services were the primary targets in these raids.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

Talks have no relevance till Pak proves its credibility : BJP (Hindustan Times)
There is no relevance of these talks (proposed foreign minister level talks between the two countries). The Pakistan government should first prove its credibility on the issue of terrorism. Mutual trust and confidence can only come when Pakistan-sponsored terrorism is stopped," BJP President Nitin Gadkari said.

Alleging that terror outfits continue to exist and operate from Pakistani soil, he said, "Innocent people are getting killed in our country due to Pak-sponsored terrorism".
What government? Gilani needs an all-clear from Pindi just to go to the loo every morning.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

Pakistan imposes 15 percent duty on yarn exports (Reuters)
ISLAMABAD, May 13 (Reuters) - Pakistan has imposed a 15 percent regulatory duty on exports of all types of cotton yarn, after textile and garment workers complained yarn shortages were hurting their businesses and exports.
"A regulatory duty of 15 percent will be imposed on exports of all types of yarn with immediate effect. This will be effective initially for a period of 60 days," the Finance Ministry said in a statement.
With no bar on exports, growers also sell their output in the international market to fetch better prices, meaning more has to be imported.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by ramana »

Dont you get the idea that TSP is the has become the modern day 'orc' factory where the new Sauron produces more of them every day!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Anujan »

The totally innocent dad, friends & relatives of the NYC bum Paki are totally shocked about how such an innocent man become an extremist.

Like they said in Faridkot, if the NYC bum paki did it because of "good intentions of waging Jihad on the infidels" I think he should be let free to improve US-Pak relationship and to bridge the trust deficit.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by sum »

ramana wrote:Dont you get the idea that TSP is the has become the modern day 'orc' factory where the new Sauron produces more of them every day!
Has to be one of the more apt descriptions of TSP.

When ( and who) will this "orc factory" be flooded and destroyed like in LOTR?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by bahdada »

sum wrote:
ramana wrote:Dont you get the idea that TSP is the has become the modern day 'orc' factory where the new Sauron produces more of them every day!

Except that Pakiland poses an existential threat to no one but itself despite all the hype about their prowess.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rudradev »

shiv wrote:
kenop wrote: I was not trying to indicate anything about sides I am on. Just wanted to indicate the geographical area.
My last post on this particular point.
Do you believe that the part of kashmir in Pakistan's hands is "Azad"(Free) Kashmir and Indian J&K is not free - i.e occupied Kashmir.

1) Do you not know?
2) Do you just not care?
To be completely fair, there is a certain amount of ambiguity in nomenclature here, that we should define for ourselves before the Pakis usurp it (they are masters at using sleight-of-hand with the names of things, in crafting their propaganda of confusion).

"Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir" (as I understand it) refers to ALL the territories of the princely state of Jammu & Kashmir under the illegal occupation of Pakistan since 1947, including those illegally ceded to the PRC by Pakistan in 1963. That includes a section of western Jammu (Mirpur), a part of the Kashmir valley around Muzaffarabad, and also the the territories known as the "Northern Areas".

On the other hand, what the Pakistanis call "Azad Kashmir" is not equal to what we call POK in terms of territory. It is only the area of the Kashmir valley around Muzaffarabad. It does not fully include Mirpur (which is being gradually swallowed up into West Punjab). And it certainly does not include the Northern Areas, which the Pakis are now trying to sneakily separate from the J&K argument by another one of their name-games (dubbing them "Gilgit-Baltistan").

So when we refer specifically to the geographical area that the Pakis call "Azad Kashmir", it is insufficient to use the term POK (which also includes many other territories). We need to come up with another name for specifically that area of the valley under Pakistani illegal occupation. "Ghulam Kashmir" perhaps?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by kenop »

Rudradev wrote: So when we refer specifically to the geographical area that the Pakis call "Azad Kashmir", it is insufficient to use the term POK (which also includes many other territories).
Yes.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by chetak »

Rudradev wrote:We need to come up with another name for specifically that area of the valley under Pakistani illegal occupation. "Ghulam Kashmir" perhaps?

Rudradev ji,

The porkis refer to our side as "held kashmir".

Certainly, why not the apt name of "Ghulam Kashmir" for so called azad kashmir? One fails to see what's azad about that benighted hell hole genocidally denuded of its original shias to a large extent ?

It sounds just right, like susannah roy. :D
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by ramana »

"Calling things by their right name is the begining of wisdom!"

Lets not create new words and cause confusion. I think land under TSP occupation should be called as such -POK.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Carl_T »

How about PoJK to cover everything from Jammu to Gilgit to Ladakh?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »


Rahul Ji this could mean two things
1) Investigating agencies are completely incompetent and just to waste everyone's time they arrested some one who was not connected with the crime and the courts dismissed them

2) Investigating agencies are either sympathetic or afraid of these jehadis and so decided to arrest scapegoats.

Chose what ever you want but pakis are going to repeat the same tamasha with 26/11 trials in rawalpindi.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by ramana »

Night Watch, 12 May 2010
India: Defence Minister A.K. Antony said on 12 May that India remains concerned about Pakistan's militant infrastructure, New Kerala reported. Talks will continue, Antony said, but Pakistan must take steps to dismantle more than 40 militant camps.

Comment: India has accepted a Pakistani invitation this week to resume talks. India's main concern is that Pakistan take action to root out anti-Indian terrorists. Readers would be wise in suspecting US pressure on India to throw a bone to the fragile, elected civilian government in Pakistan by agreeing to talks at least in principle.

The American policy is another rerun of an approach that has failed repeatedly. The theory is that the Pakistani civilian government would have a freer hand in applying military assets against Pakistani terrorists and militants, if India appeared less hostile. Prime Minister Gilani and General Kayani, thus, could better manage pressure from the Army Corps Commanders and the enormous corps of retired senior officers who insist that India is the existential threat to Pakistan, instead of internal fragmentation.

As an aside, Pakistani generals and strategists never seem to come to grips with the fact that India contains twice as many Muslims as Pakistan, handles them better than Pakistan, and has no need of or desire for more Muslims or for an unstable Islamic neighbor state that cannot control its Muslim population.

At US urging, India has exercised restraint in response to terrorist attacks from Pakistan at least four times since December 2001 when Pakistani Muslim zealots attacked the Indian Parliament in New Delhi. India's restraint has not been matched by Pakistani cooperation or even competent police work. Thus Pakistani failures enabled the Mumbai attacks in November 2008, which were launched from near Karachi.

There will be more terrorist attacks against India from Pakistan by Pakistanis. The retired generals' lobby and the defense industrial establishment that is owned by the Pakistan Army must see India as a threat to justify their existence and must deem the terrorists as agents of Pakistan's deterrent strategy against Indian aggression. Without a a threat from India, Pakistan needs only a strong paramilitary constabulary, not a nuclear equipped army. As an ally of China, however, Pakistan must keep that big, expensive army and the weapons China has supplied.
There you go an accurate assessment by an earlier partisan of TSP
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Manu »

ramana wrote:Night Watch, 12 May 2010



As an aside, Pakistani generals and strategists never seem to come to grips with the fact that India contains twice as many Muslims as Pakistan, handles them better than Pakistan, and has no need of or desire for more Muslims or for an unstable Islamic neighbor state that cannot control its Muslim population.

There you go an accurate assessment by an earlier partisan of TSP
Except the highlighted part, I guess.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by ramana »

My comment was about more terroist attacks on India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Manu »

Sure Ramana Guru, am only highlighting the mistake made by the writer of the Night Watch piece - this is not a mistake you made.

I guess the intent of the writer was to convey that India has more Muslims than Pakistan - (s)he mistakenly said twice as many.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by Rahul Shukla »

3 People Held in Times Square Probe; 2 Men Held Had 'Direct Connection' to Shahzad (WINS - NY)
BOSTON (AP/ 1010 WINS) -- Federal agents conducted Thursday morning raids in Massachusetts, New York and New Jersey in connection with the failed Times Square car bomb and arrested three people, including two Pakistani men who provided money to the suspect, Faisal Shahzad, law enforcement officials said.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Brian Hale said three people were arrested on suspected immigration violations: two in the Boston area and one in Maine. All three arrests are administrative and not criminal...
The men are from Pakistan, said another law enforcement official ...
The two Boston-area men had a "direct connection'' to Shahzad, said a top Massachusetts law enforcement official. They are believed to have provided money to him, but investigators weren't sure whether they were witting accomplices or simply moving funds...
That official said one of the men had overstayed his visa. The government had already begun proceedings to remove the other man from the country; he was awaiting a ruling from an immigration court.
Police cordoned off a small house in Watertown, a suburb about 10 miles west of Boston, and a neighbor reported seeing an FBI raid there.

A Mobil gas station in Brookline, another Boston suburb, also was raided.
FBI spokesman Richard Kolko said locations in Long Island also were searched.
Elias Audy, 61, of Boston, is listed at the owner of the Mobil station. He was seen by reporters leaving the business afterward and had no comment.
Audy was born in Lebanon, and came to the United States at 19 to study at the University of Houston in Texas and then at Northeastern University in Boston near his brother, according to the website of a used car dealership Audy also owned.
A law enforcement official told The Associated Press the search warrants were executed at homes in the towns of Centereach and Shirley and that no one has been arrested in Suffolk County in connection with the bomb plot.
The landlord of a home on Oxhead Road in Centereach tells 1010 WINS' Mona Rivera that he rented out the basement apartment of the home to a Pakistani man a year and a half ago.

In New Jersey, the FBI was searching a residence in Cherry Hill, N.J., and a print shop in Camden, N.J., said FBI spokesman J.J. Klaver in Philadelphia.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Manu wrote:
I guess the intent of the writer was to convey that India has more Muslims than Pakistan - (s)he mistakenly said twice as many.
Well, with one half of Pakistani Muslims doubting the faith of the other half, but with this type of dispute not happening India, it means that Pakistan at any given time contains half or less as many Muslims as in India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by a_kumar »

SSridhar wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Pakistan and Times Sq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/opini ... istof.html
That article, though I appreciate the intention of the author, has quite a few inaccuracies, IMHO.
My comments..
Fallacy1 : "One useful signal would be for Washington to encourage Islamabad to send not only troops to North Waziristan but also teachers"

Firstly, note that "Time-square terrorist" or "Killer of Daniel Pearl" did not come from North Waziristan, so troops or teachers in North Waziristan would not make much difference to West. As for teachers, what can teachers do when the syllabus itself preaches bigotry and hatred towards non-muslims. If the army wishes, it could single-handedly arm-twist every segment of the administration to turn around the school system in 5 years to teach a secular view or a non-radical view, but that isn't in their interest. Until Army stays influential, US can pour billions of dollars, but besides getting a few Swiss accounts fat, that will only make the products more sophisticated in their ways, not necessarily civilized in views.

Fallacy2 : Many seem to blame US for building the Mujaheddin against the Soviet.

But a little less known fact is that terror is is a tried and tested formula for the Army. Pakistan army used the Afghan tribals to invade the unrelenting princely state of Kashmir (1947) and magically found itself in control when dust settled down. How is it that "tribals invade Kashmir" and "Pakistani army ended up in control"?. Yes, the now famous word non-state-actors. In several subsequent wars, ranging from 1965 war with India to the Taliban takeover of Kabul, using religious maniacs under the guise of holy-war has been a common them of Pakistani Army's strategy to gain access to Central-Asia energy (through Afghanistan) or "Wrest rest of Kashmir" from India. In 1980's, US was a convenient buyer of the product Pakistani army has carefully cultivated and mastered over the previous 33 years, "non-state actors". They just had different names at different times : "Afghan tribals" (1947), "tribals" (1965), "Mujahiddin" (1979-1989), "Kashmiri freedom-fighters" (1989-current), "Afghan Taliban" (1994-current) or "Mumbai non-state actors" (2008). Somewhere in the mix, unintended miscreants get through, like the "New York terrorists" or "London Tube Bombers".

So stop killing yourselves over support to Zia-ul-Haq, US got used, like US used Pakistan Army. Its pretty even.


Fallacy3 : "Pro-American Pakistanis fighting against extremism have been pleading for years for the United States to cut tariffs on Pakistani garment exports, to nurture the textile industry and stabilize the country."

If those elite are pro-American Pakistanis, there isn't much evidence supporting that. In fact, it is these very elite that have kept the common Pakistanis perpetually misguided and angry at the West. And it is this very elite that to a large extent finances the activities of pretty much all the groups under US terror watch-list, under the guise of "charity". Go figure how much making these elite industrialists rich would help US.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by praksam »

Pakistan, a Victim of Jihadists, Struggles for Progress

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... S=PAKISTAN
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Apr. 11, 2

Post by putnanja »

Towards reducing trust deficit - Chinmaya R. Gharekhan
...
It is essential that India does not engage Pakistan in talks without a clear idea of what it expects of the neighbour in terms of reducing the ‘trust deficit'; it cannot be simply a case of making a subjective judgment on whether Pakistan has done anything, or enough, to reduce the deficit. There are quantifiable criteria which can be spelt out and even publicly announced by our side.
...
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The most important criterion has to do with terrorism. A statement by the Pakistan Prime Minister that his government will not allow Pakistan's territory to be used for terrorist acts against India does not, by itself, carry much meaning. It should be accompanied by specific action. There should be credible evidence of Pakistan vigorously pursuing the prosecution of the perpetrators of the Mumbai blasts. We need not keep harping on the slow pace of the process, so long as we are satisfied with the seriousness of the prosecution. Pakistan can certainly do more to contain Hafiz Saeed. It takes recourse to the unconvincing argument that it is unable to produce admissible evidence against this terrorist, but it can definitely take administrative action to bring him under control.
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It follows that Pakistan should stop objecting to the presence of our consulates in Afghanistan. Similarly, it should stop protesting against our development assistance to Afghanistan which has no hidden anti-Pakistan agenda. In fact, it can join India in some of the projects. This will help in persuading General McChrystal not to make gratuitous remarks about our assistance to Afghanistan — of the kind he made in his written report to President Barack Obama.
..
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We must not feel embarrassed or go on the defensive if Pakistan wants to talk Kashmir. We must also not revive the Musharraf deposit about his so-called four-point proposal. We must not leave Pakistan in any doubt that the only solution, which in any case will need endorsement from the Indian Parliament, is to convert the LoC into an international border. If Pakistan does not agree, we will be under no compulsion to offer anything by way of ‘out-of-the-box' proposals. In any case, we must not agree to any ‘confidence-building' measure which would give Pakistan a locus standi, however indirect, in the affairs of the Valley, in a consultative or any kind of mechanism. ‘Trust' must have its limits. We can certainly agree on and encourage more people-to-people contacts, etc.

Of late, Pakistan has whipped up domestic sentiment against India on the water issue. It will certainly bring it up in any dialogue with us. Here, it is important to acknowledge that Mr. Qureshi has publicly admitted that the water woes of Pakistan are a consequence of its own mismanagement of its resources and that India is not to blame. If Pakistan has specific complaints, it should be encouraged to raise them within the framework of the Indus Waters Treaty. However irrational, Pakistanis are not suicidal; they know that the IWT is much more generous to them than to India and they would not want to renegotiate it.
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Unfortunately, Mr Garekhan's suggestions has already been rejected by GoI going by past comments that SS Menon and MMS want "out of box" thinking on kashmir and pakistan!!
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