Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 May 2011 10:15

Karan M wrote: <SNIP> Also, do not write off the Nag just yet. The Army requirement for a CITV for the Namica is not an impossible task for DRDO to achieve. The Army has already indented for 443 missiles and 13 launchers at BDL and BEL. There is every chance the order may be increased.

IMO, the Nag along with LCH and Pinaka (+ALH; but it is already there) is going to be the next game changer as far the IA is concerned. Everything else is already there - these two systems represent a change of paradigm in their field. Just read the reent report on air-assets (attack and utility helicopters) planned for Strike and Pivot Corps. You're tilting the balance of power in the battlefield by exponential margins.

IA has already ordered NAG and is going to stick to current order (as posted by Karan M). I'm hoping (albiet with fingers crossed), that IA has seen great potential in the NAMICA System and might have realized that with Panoramic Sight, it can exploit the system even better - and apply it to additional roles. Yes, ofcourse, they could have seen this and asked for earlier, but then, it is the IA we are dealing with here. I have a distinct feeling that IA is in process of learning how to exploit the NAG to its full potential. That is why I had asked for original mandate for NAG under IGMDP and what was expected of missile.

Someone like me would want to see one Company/Squadron per infantry division in the plains and along LAC in Ladakh.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 19 May 2011 10:23

Has Pinaka been Inducted, i heard from Wiki aunty that 1 Regiment was to be inducted in 2K and subsequently 1 regiment every year. no news on this from any sources (i scoured DRDO reports, BDL reports etc). any news on this from Chaiwala, Paanwala, Ironmen, drivers, car wash guys, chowkidaars.. any news from anyone welcome.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 20 May 2011 00:25

a 6000 km A6 system with multiple
warheads (MIRV)

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/nl/2011/NLMay2011.pdf

Sean Rowe · Post by **Sean Rowe** » 20 May 2011 10:49

Astra missile tested today....
http://www.zeenews.com/news707548.html

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 20 May 2011 12:41

^^^
from TOI

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 20 May 2011 13:47

a 5000 km canister-launched
A5 system; and a 6000 km A6 system with multiple
warheads (MIRV) capable launching of both from
the ground and underwater.

My my we are going to have a 6000km capable SLBM with MIRVs

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 20 May 2011 13:56

Sagar G wrote:
a 5000 km canister-launched
A5 system; and a 6000 km A6 system with multiple warheads (MIRV) capable launching of both from the ground and underwater.

Great news on A-6, this has suddenly come out of the wood works, any update on the A2P? Tessy Thomas' baby!!!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 May 2011 13:58

DRDO carries out ballistic flight test of Astra BVR

Got this verbally, I will update once the official release is out.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 20 May 2011 16:24

What is a ballistic flight test for an A2A missile?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 May 2011 16:26

P Chitkara wrote:What is a ballistic flight test for an A2A missile?

Flight behaviour.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 May 2011 16:27

all AAMs are tested from a inclined ground launcher first...even the panda ones.

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/dat ... k.com4.jpg

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 20 May 2011 19:27

DRDO tests Astra BVRAAM.

Astra missiles are likely to be integrated with all frontline fighter aircraft of the air force, such as the Sukhoi-30MKI, the MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and the indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

The Astra BVRAAM, which uses solid propellant, is the smallest of the missiles developed by the DRDO in terms of size and weight. It will have an active homing range of 25 km and will carry a pre-fragmented warhead fitted with a proximity fuse.

A radar fuse already exists for the Astra, but the DRDO is currently working on a new laser fuse.

Reportedly, the Mark 2 version of Astra will have a maximum range of 150 km and tail chase range of up to 35 km.

The missile is 3.8-metre long and has a diameter of 178 mm with an overall launch weight of 160 kg.

DRDO officials say it is more advanced than similar class of missiles of US, Russia and European origin.

Earlier, the missile's captive flight tests on a Su-30MKI were carried out near Pune in November 2009 when seven sorties were conducted.

Astra's first flight trial took place on May 9, 2003 from the ITR at Chandipur.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 20 May 2011 20:12

Singha wrote:all AAMs are tested from a inclined ground launcher first...even the panda ones.
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/dat ... k.com4.jpg

We test like this onlee
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HtzHWTyO9xc/T ... issile.jpg
Timeline of tests

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 May 2011 21:49

> DRDO officials say it is more advanced than similar class of missiles of US, Russia and European origin.

the officials and media should refrain from stupid and meaningless statements like this that cannot be proven or are untrue and instead focus on the benefit of the product being ours to own and upgrade, full control of algorithms/ecm/flight path and technical parameters. at most say its 'comparable to the good ones out there'

I have seen this in many cases - the tendency to brag about stuff still in development being 'better than imported maal or such in the world market' - who cares ? its the desi control and desi development in timely manner that counts and whether it meets our specific needs, not whether it performs better than the amraam when fired from a C17.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 May 2011 21:54

singha ji, this kind of statements are usually in reply to leading questions from DDM. there is not much a person can do if asked 'is this missile up to the standards of missiles made in US, russia and europe ?'. if he answers yes DDM will add a coat of paint and turn that into "it is better than those".

unless you see exact attributed quotes, do not take these reports at face value.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 20 May 2011 22:04

DRDO revels development plans for 6000km ranged Agni-VI

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 May 2011 22:07

this demo reveals what the tatra trucks we have can do - pretty impressive by any std. glad that pinaka , brahmos et al ride on tatra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy242OXDzL0

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 May 2011 22:24

that is what we want.. clean burn for astra. nice pic there uddu. i remember having read a hindu article on how much has gone into the burn chemistry.

still no newj on cl20 as solid fuel?

--

I agree, that drdo needs a separate media wing that answers to ddm. this is a long standing BRequest.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 20 May 2011 22:30

Rahul M wrote:singha ji, this kind of statements are usually in reply to leading questions from DDM. there is not much a person can do if asked 'is this missile up to the standards of missiles made in US, russia and europe ?'. if he answers yes DDM will add a coat of paint and turn that into "it is better than those".

Even if DRDO official did not make such a statement, answer such a question, DDM adds these favorite lines. These are standard (de jure) for all defence reporting...

just like it used to be " millions of Indians are living below poverty line... 2 $s a day... Rona Dhona of the western Media...

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 20 May 2011 22:32

BRJingos, any news of Pinaka induction? which regiment has Smerch? last I heard was the 60+ TELs (and support vehicles) were for the 3 strike Corps. any update on Pinaka would chill Jingo hearts.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 May 2011 22:49

Saik, That maal will go for special projects first before it become rocket fuel.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 20 May 2011 23:07

Arty Shells and A2G munitions would first be tried our with CL20, once this gets operational, we can see this scent in other flowers too. Dunno if Jingos realize that SDREs uses HMX in their ordnance (and not RDX) and hence are able to bring in lot more firepower to bear on it targets. During Kargil, one the (many) things which Pakis got wrong were the extent of damage Indians would cause inflict on the infiltrating forces.

With Cl20, impact of "Hundred Guns Concept" would be magnified many times over!!!

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 May 2011 02:24

Flight-test of Astra fails

kvraghavaiah · Post by **kvraghavaiah** » 21 May 2011 04:29

suryag wrote:Flight-test of Astra fails

Huh,
another kaveri? or slow but ok like akash?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 21 May 2011 06:16

India Test Fires Air-To-Air Guided Missile
Aviation Week

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 21 May 2011 06:22

German Anti-Tank Missile Tested for India
Aviation Week

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 21 May 2011 06:52

^^^DDM report. Helina will be ready by 2013.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 21 May 2011 06:59

http://www.hindu.com/2011/05/21/stories ... 742200.htm
as the missile developed a “control-related fault” when a manoeuvre was attempted. “A snag developed during a manoeuvre. The missile lost control after it reached a certain height. A team is analysing the data.”

It seems nothing that serious. Testing is to find the faults and correct it. So it's not that good to believe that no fault must happen and everything must go smooth without any failures during testing. This can be overcome and let's hope the next test to be successful.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 21 May 2011 07:25

Paging CJ,

CJ reported yesterday that Astra test was a success, Aviation Week reports the same, Chindu troops in and announces a failure.. what to believe... Is it some DDM clutching onto wrong straws?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 May 2011 07:26

Fault or no fault...that is what testing is all about. Iron out the faults before induction into service. The plume of the Astra is beautiful.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 May 2011 07:32

And the Astra was also delayed because IAF insisted upon smokeless propulsion. The Cheeni AAM linked in one of the posts above spews as much smoke as an AshokLeyland lorry

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 May 2011 08:53

cheenum wrote:Paging CJ,

CJ reported yesterday that Astra test was a success, Aviation Week reports the same, Chindu troops in and announces a failure.. what to believe... Is it some DDM clutching onto wrong straws?

Cheenum. I have reported tested "but not have claimed success" Pls read here

The tests may not have worked out as per the Hindu report.

Added later....

As Rakesh says , the tests are for figuring out what works or not. There is so much pressure for even "tests" to be always successfull

vic · Post by **vic** » 21 May 2011 09:18

It is worth noting that Astra-2 is completely different design from Astra - 1 and seems to take off from LRSAM JV project with Israel. I think that Astra will succeed one way or another

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 21 May 2011 09:58

vic wrote:It is worth noting that Astra-2 is completely different design from Astra - 1 and seems to take off from LRSAM JV project with Israel. I think that Astra will succeed one way or another

Are you sure Astra-2 and LRSAM JV are related. how are they related?

Santosh Pandey · Post by **Santosh Pandey** » 21 May 2011 12:27

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 484028.cms

TOI reports Astra's Second test is successful..

kvraghavaiah · Post by **kvraghavaiah** » 21 May 2011 12:58

Santosh Pandey wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 484028.cms

TOI reports Astra's Second test is successful..

Hmm good news. I wish, Astra enters production by 2014.
in 2001, i read in news papers that Astra will be ready by 2010.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 21 May 2011 13:35

cheenum wrote:
Rahul M wrote:singha ji, this kind of statements are usually in reply to leading questions from DDM. there is not much a person can do if asked 'is this missile up to the standards of missiles made in US, russia and europe ?'. if he answers yes DDM will add a coat of paint and turn that into "it is better than those".
Even if DRDO official did not make such a statement, answer such a question, DDM adds these favorite lines. These are standard (de jure) for all defence reporting...

just like it used to be " millions of Indians are living below poverty line... 2 $s a day... Rona Dhona of the western Media...

I can add another one. Foreign enws agencies routinely cap off a reference to the disputed territory of kashmir with the phrase that India and Pakistan fought three wars in the last sixty years!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 May 2011 15:42

Santosh Pandey wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 484028.cms

TOI reports Astra's Second test is successful..

What on earth is a "ballistic flight test"?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 May 2011 15:49

shiv wrote:
Santosh Pandey wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 484028.cms

TOI reports Astra's Second test is successful..
What on earth is a "ballistic flight test"?

They are trying to figure out flight behaviour.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 21 May 2011 16:02

^^
Have you confirmed this yourself or is it just a guess? I ask this not because Ballistic tests don't make sense but because TOI is known to have written pretty incredulous stuff in the past. So, it is not the best practice to take their articles at face value and try to justify it. Of course, if you yourself have confirmed the facts, then that is a different matter.