J & K news and discussion

negi · Post by **negi** » 27 Dec 2009 22:44

Some of the

types do read and post from Gubmint websites ; point about mountainous terrain or sun not shining in unmentionable places not withstanding how the hell does one explain decrease in net cultivation area ? And I think when Agri page for J&K states more than 90% of ground water is under utilized I think addressing it alone will increase the net yield by a huge margin . If giving anecdotal examples qualifies as a valid example ,people from my place have been doing terrace farming since ages and all this in a region which did not have roads and electricity until 2003 but last I checked even that requires a suitable irrigation system.If beebul care to read carefully the figures are compared relative to national average and not Haryana and Punjab.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Dec 2009 22:56

Why do you need ground water when you have so many rivers, lakes and small rivulets ? J&K is very rich in water resources. Additionally what do you mean by under-utilization of ground water ?
Fall in net cultivation area in part could be due to rapid urbanisation and migration of people from villages to cities. At least that's what I've observed in areas around Jammu. I believe same thing is happening everywhere.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Dec 2009 11:17

Posting in full as a must read:
Exhuming the truth on Shopian

Last summer, the bodies of two women were washed ashore on the banks of the Rambiara river in Shopian. Eight people were to die, and some 400 suffer injuries as the embers fanned by the deaths set off fires across urban Kashmir.

For the angry young Islamists who spearheaded the protests, the deaths of the two women were murders — murders, moreover, carried out by a predatory Hindu state in its campaign to annihilate Kashmiris.

The body of one of them, the Jammu and Kashmir High Court Bar Association’s investigation recorded witnesses as stating, “was lying half naked on dry sand. Her clothes were torn and hair, clothes and body were dry. Blood was dripping from her nose and it appeared sindoor had been thrown in her forehead.”

“During our investigations,” association leader G.N. Shaheen said, “we found that the perpetrators belonged to a particular community and they had even vandalised the bodies of the victims.” In case anyone had missed the point, Mr. Shaheen added the rapists were “fanatic Hindus.”

Now, the Central Bureau of Investigation has filed a charge sheet which rips apart the claims of the secessionist-linked Bar Association, politicians like People’s Democratic Party leader Mehbooba Mufti and much of the media. Backed by forensic detective work by the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences Department of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology, the Central Forensic Sciences Laboratory in New Delhi, the Forensic Sciences Laboratory in Madhuban and the Indian Agricultural Research Institute, the CBI has concluded that the women were neither raped nor murdered.

Inside the bodies of the victims, AIIMS forensic experts found several pieces of evidence suggesting drowning. Pin-sized petechial haemorrhages were found on the membranes of their lungs and bronchi. Larger patches of Paltauf’s haemorrhages — bluish-red areas found in the lungs of about half of all drowning victims — were also visible. Doctors also discovered accumulations of fluid within the alveoli, suggesting pulmonary oedema, another sign of drowning.

None of the findings in themselves was conclusive. So, experts at the Central Forensic Science Laboratory in New Delhi and the Forensic Sciences Laboratory at Madhuban proceeded to conduct tests which matched the soil recovered from the victims’ lungs with the earth in the Rambiara. Further tests showed that diatoms — a kind of eukaryotic algae — inside the victims’ lungs were similar to those found among some organisms in the river. During autopsy, the doctors also recovered small insects from the victims’ lungs. Experts at the Indian Agricultural Research Institute identified the insects as silverfish — small, wingless creatures commonly found under the bark of trees, under rocks, in rotten logs and among leaf litter.

But the finding that the victims were drowned did not rule out the possibility of murder — or rape. The AIIMS evidence shot down the first possibility in short order. The body of one victim did indeed have a lacerated wound in the forehead, likely caused by hitting against a hard surface but the forensic examiners believed it was “not sufficient to cause death in the ordinary course.” There were no external ante-mortal injuries on the other victim.

No evidence of rape, the experts stated, emerged either. The hymen of one of the victims was found intact. Four Shopian hospital staff members — Javed Iqbal Malik, Tariq Ahmad Tantrey, Mohammad Ismail Sheikh and Mohammad Ismail Sodagar — corroborated the findings, telling the CBI that there were no injuries on the private parts of the victims. Their clothes, six other witnesses told the CBI, were also intact at the time the bodies were found.
Faked evidence

How could the AIIMS findings be so different from that of two separate teams of doctors who carried out earlier autopsies? Breathtaking incompetence may have played a role. Shopian doctors Bilal Hassan and Nazia Hassan ruled out drowning as a cause of death, claiming to have carried out a flotation test using samples of lung tissue from a victim. In fact, the AIIMS team determined, the tissue was from the heart.

Moreover, the lung flotation test has long been known to be less-than-conclusive proof of drowning — especially in fresh water, which has a lower density than salt water. Janson Payne-James, Anthony Busuttil and William S. Smock’s Forensic Medicine: Clinical and Pathological Aspects explains that the test rests on the fact that lung weights are usually higher in people who were drowned. But “a normal weight is possible in some drowning cases.” The more sophisticated tests conducted by the CBI experts were either unavailable or unknown to the Shopian doctors.

Nighat Shaheen, Ghulam Qadir Sofi and Maqbool Mir, who made up the second autopsy team, are also charged by the CBI with fabricating evidence. The team insisted that a victim’s hymen was damaged — an assertion the AIIMS experts’ videotaped autopsy debunks. Evidence that Dr. Shaheen had fabricated evidence, first reported in The Hindu, also figured in the CBI investigation. She claimed to have taken vaginal swabs from the victims, but later tests revealed that they had in fact been lifted from unconnected women. The CBI claims that Dr. Shaheen offered them three contradictory accounts of how this had come about — including a claim, now disproved, that she had supplied a vaginal swab from her own body under duress.

The CBI investigators were unable to arrive at a precise determination of just how the women were drowned. Human rights groups who have investigated the case say water in the Rambiara was just ankle-deep.

But official records gathered by the CBI show that the river was flowing at its year-high flood, 228 cubic feet per second, just days before the women’s death. There is, of course, no direct relationship between the flow of water in the river and its depth. However, the CBI discovered multiple witness testimonies suggesting that the river was indeed flowing at dangerous levels — the most important being a videotaped media interview given by the husband of one of the victims the day after her death. He asserted that the water level in the river was so high that “even a man could not have crossed it.” Independent witnesses, the CBI states, corroborated this claim, with one adding it was also the opinion of the victim’s family. They also noted that two separate witnesses earlier said the victims had froth around the nose, a classic sign of drowning.

Efforts to link police personnel to the crime went nowhere. Much of the case rested on the testimony of Ghulam Mohaiuddin Lone and Abdul Rashid Pampori, who claimed to have heard the women crying for help from inside a police vehicle parked on the Zawoora Bridge. However, the CBI noted, their testimony was contradictory on at least five issues. Later, the CBI says, it acquired statements from the men that they had been coerced into making the allegations. Forensic tests on 23 police vehicles and 47 officers posted in the area also threw up no evidence that they were in any way linked to the deaths.

The Kashmir High Court Bar Association says it has a letter from AIIMS forensic medicine expert Sudhir Gupta, casting doubt on the forensic findings. Dr. Gupta has offered no independent corroboration of this claim; indeed, in an in-house AIIMS correspondence obtained by The Hindu, Dr. Gupta asked for a copy of the letter so he could give a “legitimate reply.” The AIIMS spat has led to some bizarre media allegations, including assertions that its experts helped to rig forensic evidence in the murder of a Delhi teenager — a case the institution had nothing to do with. Dr. Gupta, whose name was struck off the rolls of the Medical Council of India in 2004, on plagiarism charges, may or may not be a credible witness, but if there is any serious critique of the evidence marshalled by the CBI, it must be assessed and responded to.

Failing this, many must hold themselves to account for the bloodshed that followed the deaths in Shopian. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah and his government must take part of the blame. The government buckled under pressure from Islamists, transferring senior police officials who insisted that the deaths were an accident, suspended others on charges of destroying evidence and paving the way for the judicially-mandated arrests of four suspects, now exonerated. Politicians in the PDP, and among the secessionists, who cynically cashed in on the deaths to further their agenda must also be held to account. Media and civil rights groups, which paid little attention to evidence that from the outset cast doubt on the rape-murder story, cannot evade responsibility either.

Many in Jammu and Kashmir, reared on the half-truths and deceits fed by large sections of the media, are likely to believe the CBI account. It is imperative that proceedings from here on be carried out with complete transparency to avoid further muddying of the waters.

SUprisingly hard hitting with no Hindoo terrorists/equal-equal with RSS/VHP mentioned to divert the attention ( as Swami tries to sometimes do)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Dec 2009 15:23

The GoI must now dig deep into why people like Mehbooba Mufti accused the government on the Shopian case without a shred of evidence and created a sense of conflict among the people. Those witnesses who agreed that they were coerced into making false accusations, must be investigated too as to who coerced them to do so. It is because that punishment is not meted out to such subversive elements that these people, who already set a great store by convoluted conspiracy theories, get emotionally hijacked so easily and begin to believe in India as an enemy.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 28 Dec 2009 18:35

There is no doubt that the separatists chicanery must be exposed and those responsible for setting emotions aflame should be brought to book.

Interestingly, where were these people when a girl in Shopian was killed by the terrorists in cold blood, in front of her family?!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Dec 2009 18:39

RayC wrote:There is no doubt that the separatists chicanery must be exposed and those responsible for setting emotions aflame should be brought to book.

By whom? The state govt seemingly has its own games to play and even the SC of India has limited powers on the hallowed soil of J&K (yet that is not enough autonomy, some in the PMO argue).

Interestingly, where were these people when a girl in Shopian was killed by the terrorists in cold blood, in front of her family?!

They'll find a way to blame on the security forces, just wait and see. CT about how IA men dress up in plainclothes (or in Afghan shalwars) to fool the people must be rife in the valley, am sure.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 28 Dec 2009 18:50

RayC wrote:Interestingly, where were these people when a girl in Shopian was killed by the terrorists in cold blood, in front of her family?!

Usually, looking the other way.

My close buddy, who is Kashmiri, a colonel and posted in Srinagar, has a low opinion of the local population. He often says that the locals are more interested in creating scenes where the Indian Army is seen as the "bad guy" even when it is not involved. Examples such as women pushing their toddler kids up in the front of clearly banned processions are common. They know they are not supposed to be there. They know that they can be arrested but will go out of their way to provoke the authorities into taking action. The usual MO is to start throwing stones. They want the police to hit back which often affects their kids and create photo ops.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 28 Dec 2009 18:51

JAMMU AND KASHMIR (EXTENSION OF LAWS) ACT 1956
Extension

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 29 Dec 2009 03:22

Proves that India as a whole has plenty of loonies and J&K because of it's isolation more so
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1091228/j ... 915492.jsp

An exceedingly high 64 per cent of women in Jammu and Kashmir believe it is justified for a husband to beat his wife, according to a study conducted by the National Family Health Survey. The figure is 10 percentage points higher than the national average of 54 per cent.

The survey reveals that 51 per cent of Kashmir’s women say wife beating is justified if she shows disrespect to in-laws; 50 per cent approve of it if the wife neglects the house or children and 48 per cent have no problem with domestic violence in case the husband suspects the wife’s character.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 29 Dec 2009 04:24

Yes. loonies... But why did nt you quote the other part also so that a complete picture can be obtained?

Kashmir can draw solace in that the percentage of men actually beating women is among the lowest in the country. Just 13 per cent of women have experienced physical or sexual violence, including 15 per cent of those married. The only state where spousal violence is lower than Jammu and Kashmir is Himachal Pradesh at eight per cent. The countrywide figures of spousal violence is a staggering 37 per cent.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 29 Dec 2009 06:25

^^^ Hey read my post and what I said
Having studied patterns of domestic violence across the world I can tell you that the level of reporting is the lowest in certain communities in India. It happens, but never gets reported.
Additionally, actual domestic violence has a lot to do with economics. J&K is one of the highest per capita states in India. I would not be surprised if the number is lower than the rest of India. However, will also not be surprised if a lot of this does not get reported.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 29 Dec 2009 06:40

Jarita wrote:^^^ Hey read my post and what I said

Yes sir, I read your post and it says, "Proves that India as a whole has plenty of loonies and J&K because of it's isolation more so."

The report is a mixed-bag which does not lead to the conclusion you made (not in full). Sure, India has plenty of loonies who will justify domestic violence. There is no case for J&K being isolated in this regard. That is the mixed bag, there are people who justify violence (both men and women), but domestic violence is least reported from the state of J&K. If you want to conjecture that "the level of reporting is the lowest in certain communities in India" based on your "study of patterns of domestic violence across the world," well that does nt come from the report. That is your opinion till you educate us of your study in some relevant thread in GDF, surely I (for one) would like to understand the sociological causes of domestic violence at least for the reason that I can forward the same to some relevant people I may know.

Till then, it is not clear what is your opinion and what is in the report. My personal opinion is that: the causes of domestic violence are far too complicated to bring religion, implicitly or explicitly, in the picture. There are oiseaules all over the place and in that regard, you are perfectly right, "India as a whole has plenty of loonies."

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 29 Dec 2009 06:54

^^^ You are right. Domestic violence is multivariate.
What you are reading above is one of the biggest variables - Belief that the violence is justified.
This variable is what makes it horribly difficult to get women out of the cycle of violence with catastrophic effects on family.
To your point there are many other varibles i.e., income level, education, level of reporting etc which is why you do not see a direct correlation and which is why I focussed on the one number.
What would be interesting to study would be how that percentage has changed in the last 10 years for India as a whole vs State of J&K. My gut feel is that the increase in fundamentalism would have wrought interesting outcomes.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 29 Dec 2009 08:10

Unrealistic in most parts..

http://www.hindu.com/2009/12/29/stories ... 860800.htm

But Selig Harrison's article that it references is a point of view that is relevant..

@Negi, the "problem" is J&K is political, and while economic measures help in creating a conducive background, the solution too has to be political..That is especially true of a democracy like India, which gives unfettered freedom to express a point of view to everyone..Even Chinese scale economic measures have not really "solved" the Tibet or Xinjiang problems for them, and they dont have a pesky neighbour egging the seperatists on...

The economic data on J&K is actually not bad at all, despite the erroneous reading on agri stats that you are doing..Per capita income, primary education and ahost of other HD indicators show a very positive trend..And 90% of the state budget is bankrolled by the Centre..

But the problem still remains a political one - and it can be solved (and I dont think it will really be solved in my lifetime) or managed (which is a more realistic scenario) through political means primarily...

James B · Post by **James B** » 29 Dec 2009 18:28

We are Pakistanis, says Kashmiri leader Geelani

Hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani on Monday demanded the merger of Jammu and Kashmir with Pakistan, as leaders of the moderate Hurriyat faction spoke about independence and a dialogue over the state.

Time to ship out this Paki

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Dec 2009 18:30

Hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani on Monday demanded the merger of Jammu and Kashmir with Pakistan, as leaders of the moderate Hurriyat faction spoke about independence and a dialogue over the state.

Again seems to strengthen the "Geelani is RAW agent" theory since it usually takes a outrageous statement from Geelani and most of the sympathy built up on the JK issue by "separatists" in Indian policymakers/aam junta minds is instantly lost.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 29 Dec 2009 22:09

vera_k: For all of the posturing by the BJP, why did they not have Kalam rescind Article 370?

ShauryaT: All these are "smart" ways to circumvent the procedure to amend the constitution. One can very well easily argue that the state legislature is the inheritor of the the state's constituent assembly and hence, any presidential proclamation has to go through the state legislature as required by article 370, as has been done 43 times. The fact of the matter is article 370 will have to go thorough this constitutional amendment process. A process that requires a 2/3 majority and 50% of the state legislatures need to approve. As, Airavat posted, far from 2/3, the BJP led NDA did not have even a simple majority on the issue, in parliament.

Lame excuses.

If BJP was even 1% serious about removing Art-370, it would have first enacted procedure of referendum. No MP can afford to say NO to procedure of referendum. So with just 182 MPs, BJP could have created procedure of referendum. Next, using procedure of referendum, BJP could have passed motion to remove Art-370. Over 80% of people in India would agree. Now comes passing this in JK Assembly -- how difficult is it to arm twist or purchase out 100 MLAs?

But BJP MPs became too busy collecting bribes once they came in power. And they did want to upset wealthy Sauds and Americans, who want Art-370 to stay. So they did not pursue the referendum way.

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Dec 2009 22:21

sum wrote: Again seems to strengthen the "Geelani is RAW agent" theory since it usually takes a outrageous statement from Geelani and most of the sympathy built up on the JK issue by "separatists" in Indian policymakers/aam junta minds is instantly lost.

I am afraid Sum it might not be the case, Geelani in this case was not addressing the Nation he was addressing the people of J&K (Kashmir valley in particular) ; you me and other Indians outside of J&K might perceive this differently but we cannot take the people in valley for granted . For Geelani or any of his ilk to receive so much media attention there should exist a section of public which is sympathetic or supportive of their agenda and I don't see how such caustic public utterances serve India's purpose.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Dec 2009 23:37

James B wrote:We are Pakistanis, says Kashmiri leader Geelani
Hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani on Monday demanded the merger of Jammu and Kashmir with Pakistan, as leaders of the moderate Hurriyat faction spoke about independence and a dialogue over the state.

Give him vasleen jar to certify his Pakiness.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 29 Dec 2009 23:47

Pak trooper arrested by Indian army in J&K

29 Dec 2009, 2108 hrs IST

A Pakistani army soldier has been arrested in Jammu & Kashmir today after he had moved into Indian territory. Naik Sarfraz of Pakistan's 801 Mujhadeen Battallion was arrested by the Indian army.

The arrest was made at the Anil Post in Keran Sector of Kupwara district of Jammu and Kashmir.

Sources say Pakistani soldier Sarfraz was arrested by the 16 JK Light Infantry men after he was seen moving suspciously.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 30 Dec 2009 03:47

Guess what he can be tried as ISI spy and exchanged for at a later date with some wanted person.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Dec 2009 03:51

ashish raval wrote:Guess what he can be tried as ISI spy and exchanged for at a later date with some wanted person.

or even our own people who are lodged in paki jails.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 30 Dec 2009 04:23

Rahul M wrote:
ashish raval wrote:Guess what he can be tried as ISI spy and exchanged for at a later date with some wanted person.
or even our own people who are lodged in paki jails.

AFAIK GoI has not swapped an ISI spy for any Indian who has been accused of spying in TSP. The usual exchanges have been for TSP fishermen caught fishing in Indian waters for Indian fishermen accused of fishing in alleged TSP waters. Can any gurus shed light on an incident where an exchange of spy personnel ever occured between GoI and TSP? If there was a exchange policy then would we not have safely brought back Sarabjit Singh by exchanging him for any one of the 100 paki vermin arrested during intrusion in J&K by the BSF.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 31 Dec 2009 00:27

JK: 4 CRPF men killed in militant ambush
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/ ... ashmir.htm

We seem to be seeing a spurt of militant activity in J&K in the last month - esp with police and para-military personnel being targeted. Time will tell whether the 30K troop withdrawal was pre-mature.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 05 Jan 2010 10:10

Sunni Shia fissures erupt

SRINAGAR, Jan 4: Mysterious disappearance of two hoardings of the Shia spiritual leader late Ayatollah Khomeini and a Kashmiri militant, have resulted in eruption of sectarian tension in a cluster of about a dozen villages in Pattan area of Baramulla district.
Informed sources told Early Times that residents of the predominantly Shia populated Hagarpora village had installed a hoarding of the godfather of the Iranian revolution Ayatollah Khomeini at a marketplace over 20 years ago. Later, in early 1990s, residents of some Mohallas of Hagarpora and Kongamdara installed a hoarding of a local militant, namely Nazir Ahmed, at the same place. Both disappeared by night in mysterious circumstances immediately after the 10th Moharram (Ashoora).
With the Sunni Muslims insisting on naming the square as “Shaheed Nazir Ahmed Chowk” after the militant killed over a decade ago and the Shia Muslims calling it “Imam Khomeini Chowk” after their spiritual leader who passed away 20 years ago, confrontation snowballed into a major clash this evening.
Police officials said that over two thousand residents of Zangam, Hanjivera and Sherabad gathered and marched towards Nauleri village. On the other hand, resident of Nauleri and adjoining Shia villages also gathered as the groups in confrontation used public address system of their mosques to call their respective supporters.
Senior Police officials rushed to the spot and they were busy in dousing the flames of sectarian tension that has erupted in Pattan area in days of a similar situation at the one-odd Shia population village of Gund-e-Sayyidaan, close to LoC in Tangdar sector of Kupwara district. Even as some members of a sect have fled due to “insecurity”, Kupwara Police have swung into action and arrested few of the mischief mongers.
Reports from Tangdar said that Attiq-ur-Rehman, brother of the National Conference (NC) MLA from Karnah, was in the forefront of creating a situation of the confrontation between members of two sects and Police had not taken any action against him. After allegations of desecration to the holy scripture, members of a sect have allegedly set on fire a place of worship of the other sect.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Jan 2010 12:06

Very strange article. Thinks he is different in the entire world.

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/today/ful ... =20&cat=11

COME SOON, BAN KI MOON

Naeem Akhtar comments on the deliberate downgrading of Kashmir problem and its resolution process.

What is happening in and around Kashmir? Madness would be a one word answer.
While on the one hand an impression is being created that finally the government of India had acknowledged the existence of a problem that needed to be addressed on the other a virtual theatre of the absurd is set up that has no precedence. It seems we actually are living, or suffering the sultanate of Ahad Raza who ruled the local entertainment charts not many years ago.
Every day begins with a new shot on comedy in this land of eternal tragedy. One need not recount to us or the world the story of Kashmir we have been living for many generations. That should have deserved a treatment above the level of mockery bordering at times outright contempt as has been happening for quite some time.
The highly civilized prime minister of this country of billion plus seemed to be seriously trying to reach out to whosoever was interested in addressing the internal dimension of the problem that has caused deadly wars between India and Pakistan and left a hundred thousand dead within the state that needs world’s largest armed force to keep it tethered to the union. These aspects of the problem are mentioned only to remind of the gravity of crisis faced by us. Otherwise a hundred tragedies a day that don’t even qualify for cold statistical record are enacted at our cost because of the unsettled conditions.
The prime minister held three rounds of a conference with representatives of the parties that swear by accession to India but most of whom post 2002 change of official idiom on Kashmir openly call for a final resolution. Working Groups were constituted as a follow up to decisions of the round table conference. Very important recommendations were made by these groups four of these reports are gathering dust. The fifth one, the last to come out of a two year long limbo added a comic dimension to a sombre and bleak outlook.
The group on economic dimension had recommended transfer of the power projects from NHPC to the state as the Indian equivalent of our East India Company has earned ten times more money out of these projects so far than it ever invested. But in our wait for the Rangarajan manna the levels of darkness have increased manifold. Electricity is now the most visible (ironically by its invisibility) sign of change in administration. God knows why all changes in Kashmir violate the time honoured belief that change is always for good.
Similarly, the group under Haamid Ansari made clear cut recommendations for a troop cut and reversal of the dreaded AFSPA. The only result so far of this group’s recommendation is that Ansari was picked up as the vice president of the country immediately after serving Kashmir cause. Kashmir somehow suits the individual fortunes of Indian Muslims though we never were part of their story, neither of leke rahenge Pakistan, nor of Shah Bano or Babri Masjid. Jaleel Ahmed Khan, Mehmoodur Rehman and Wajahat Habibullah continue to serve the place with dedication even after their retirement many years back. The Midas touch from Kashmir fairyland couldn’t have escaped Ansari obviously even as his recommendations remain mere references while Generals, Colonels, majors, captains and soldiers must say and do what they need to do to save the nation from dangerous Kashmiri Muslims.
...

Here we are now at the end of sixty two years of a dispute that continues to be an unfinished business of the United Nations and on the agenda of the suspended composite dialogue between India and Pakistan. And suddenly an emissary from the long forgotten group on centre state relations lands in the state and we are treated to pictures of the chief minister receiving him with a report in presence of his law minister. It was ten years back that the autonomy proposal passed by the state legislature by a huge majority was submitted to the central government. Whatever happened then is history, known and documented. A decade later it comes back to the chief minister of the party that copyrighted it with recommendation to “examine” the proposal. Justice Sagheer Ahmed has diluted that recommendation with an oceanful of water and a mouthful of conditionalities. But the chief minister according to the press statement asked his law minister to take action on the report and Mr. Sagar lost no time in announcing his compliance.
...

Ali Muhammad Sagar would be a fit candidate for next years Nobel. He has at least done something to solve an international dispute within a fortnight. That is much better than Barak Obama’s claim to medal who got it only on a promise of bringing in world peace.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 05 Jan 2010 13:27

Good article by Balraj Puri..

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/movin ... 0/563431/0

The military space today wider than anytime in the last 20 years, the political space too is the widest probably in a couple of generations..Now is the time to speed up the economic-political integration of J&K with India without the resorting back to the old divisivenesses of Art 370 et al...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2010 22:17

Somnath, Sandhya jain thinks the opposite is happening.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/227122/UPA- ... on-JK.html

EDITS | Tuesday, January 5, 2010 | Email | Print |

UPA is moving slyly on J&K

Sandhya Jain

The Government must end the doublespeak on Jammu & Kashmir and inform the Indian people if there is a covert understanding, under American aegis, to unravel the northern State bit by bit and surreptitiously cede it to Pakistan. A leading national daily on Saturday reported a ‘strong’ Indian reaction to Syed Mehdi Shah, newly elected ‘first Chief Minister’ of Gilgit-Baltistan, calling it the “fifth province” of Pakistan.

An embarrassed External Affairs Ministry rushed to declare: “The entire state of Jammu & Kashmir is an integral part of India by virtue of its accession to India in 1947. Any action to alter the status of any part of the territory under the illegal occupation of Pakistan has no legal basis, and is completely unacceptable.”

Doubts about New Delhi’s true intentions, however, arise because of the persistent mishandling of the State’s integration with India. First, Jawaharlal Nehru was manipulated by Louis Mountbatten into taking the Pakistan invasion to the United Nations and preventing the Indian Army from recovering the captured territories. The UN called for plebiscite and then sent Sir Owen Dixon to ‘suggest’ de facto partition of the State, with India keeping Hindu areas of Jammu and Buddhist Ladakh, while Pakistan kept the captured Northern Areas and Occupied Kashmir, and further received Muslim-dominant Doda, Poonch and Rajouri districts of Jammu! The proposed plebiscite was confined to Kashmir Valley, and north of Chenab declared the ‘new’ international border. As there was no way that Nehru could sell this proposal to his own Cabinet, it died a natural death.

Yet Nehru, like the Bourbons, forgot nothing and learnt nothing. For reasons that defy cogent analysis, the Maharaja’s Accession was not treated as final, at par with the accession by other princes. The Hindu king of a critical State was treated like a pariah, and a dangerous concept of ‘Muslim precedence’ granted to this Muslim-majority region, laying the foundations for the erosion of India’s civilisational ethos in the critical Himalayan frontier, and subsequently across the land. Special status was granted to Sheikh Abdullah and his Muslim Conference, who drove the nascent Republic crazy with their shifting stands on every negotiated issue. Article 370 is the enduring legacy of that poor exercise in statesmanship.

{Was Art 370 a way for modern India to grant millat status to Muslim Kashmir and allows sepratism within Union of India? Was this a signal to TSP of future de-Partition?}

After the UN fiasco, New Delhi stoically maintained that the entire State of Jammu & Kashmir was an inalienable part of India. But it was Mrs Indira Gandhi who substantially eroded Article 370 by extending several critical Central laws to Jammu & Kashmir via an accord with Sheikh Abdullah in 1975. Logically, we should have moved inexorably in the direction of its ultimate demise, but separatists and militants were nurtured by vested interests and the rest is history.

{So by 1975, Mrs IG realised the need to de-millat the Kashmir Valley but then events occured beyond her control?}

What still needs explanation is the BJP’s decision to downplay the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus from the Valley in the winter of 1989, and later, the decision of Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee to call Gen Pervez Musharraf for a summit at Agra in 2001 to discuss the Kashmir issue. Since then, a variety of ill-conceived unofficial and official dialogues, including ‘quiet talks’ with separatists in quest of a ‘unique solution’, have further compromised the Indian position on Kashmir, with myriad State politicians flexing their muscles and demanding autonomy, pre-1953 status, self-rule, even independence.

In these circumstances, it comes as no surprise that Gilgit-Baltistan’s first Chief Minister should claim that the recent November elections in the region meant it was a separate province (of Pakistan) and had “no connection to Kashmir”. These elections were held on the basis of the Pakistan Cabinet’s Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self Governance Order, 2009, which aimed to formally integrate the Northern Areas into the Islamic Republic. The Northern Areas are strategically vital owing to their proximity to Afghanistan and China. Pakistan occupied and isolated them in 1947, treating Gilgit, Baltistan, Hunza and Nagar as a separate administrative unit.

Now, Mr Mehdi Shah’s statement suggests that Islamabad is moving to formalise the status quo and turn Gilgit-Baltistan into a province of Pakistan. New Delhi must realise this means Islamabad will no longer support the fiction of ‘self-determination’ for the people of Jammu & Kashmir; all ‘diplomacy’ will involve de facto or de jure surrender of Indian territory.

It will be interesting to see how Kashmiri leaders react to this development. Yasin Malik of the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front had called the Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self Governance Order, 2009 “an arrow that has been shot into the hearts of Kashmiris.” He lamented that Pakistan had reneged its promise to consult all stakeholders before taking any decision. Even the Jamaat-e-Islami which favours Kashmir merging with Pakistan, and Syed Salahuddin of the United Jehad Council had opposed piece-meal solution of the Kashmir issue.

It is pertinent that only Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, chairman, All Parties Hurriyat Conference, with whom Union Home Minister P Chidambaram is engaged in ‘quiet talks,’ supported Pakistan’s political-administrative package for Gilgit-Baltistan, saying it met long-standing local aspirations. Mirwaiz was in recent months allowed by the Centre to visit Washington, London, and The Organisation of Islamic Conference, and appears to be in the loop on the emerging Western-Pakistan synergy to dismember India from the north, formally augment Pakistan for the Afghanistan war, while furthering western strategic objectives in the region.

By succumbing to American pressure to treat Jammu & Kashmir as an extra-national concern, by selecting an arbitrary set of ‘stake-holders’, the UPA has seriously compromised the national interest, national sovereignty, and national security. Interestingly, though both Mr Vajpayee and Mr Manmohan Singh headed coalition regimes, the lead-partner in both coalitions, the BJP and the Congress respectively, was responsible for dilution of the national position on Kashmir. Both must now be called to give an account of their conduct.

It is pertinent that Indian intelligence and diplomatic sources would have known about the November election in Gilgit-Baltistan, but Indian public opinion was kept carefully in the dark. Why, in six decades, has Indian intelligence failed to build ‘human resources’ in a region badly treated by Pakistan; to sponsor a party that could have come to power?

Were it not for Mr Mehdi Shah’s political taunt, New Delhi would have continued to preside over moves to balkanise India via Jammu & Kashmir. Islamabad’s next step will be to grant official Pakistani citizenship to the people of Gilgit-Baltistan. Is South Block ready for that?

The common factor was the bureaucracy. We do not know what their real ideas are. Politicians come and go but bureaucrats stay on and get sinecures.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 05 Jan 2010 23:04

^^^ The reality is somewhere in between

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 06 Jan 2010 15:40

Two killed, 4 hurt as terrorists strike Srinagar

At least two security personnel have died and four others have been injured in a terrorist attack on Central Reserve Police Force camp in Srinagar on Wednesday.

It all happened as terrorists lobbed grenades and fired at Central Reserve Police.

Presently, the terrorists are hiding in a hotel building, located at the Lal Chowk, and it is believed that that the number of terrorists is two.

CRPF personnel and police officials are presently engaged in a gun-battle with the terrorists in the hotel.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 06 Jan 2010 15:41

Terror attack in JK

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jan 2010 08:12

Love Pakistan! Love Pakistanis!!
AMAN KI ASHA!!!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Fiday ... ars/564444

Fidayeen terror returns to Srinagar after two years
Fidayeen militants returned to Srinagar after two years on Wednesday when two men carrying AK rifles and grenades appeared in the busy Lal Chowk market and attacked a police vehicle, killing a policeman and injuring eight people, including a cameraman.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 07 Jan 2010 08:54

^^^ Sandhya Jain is simply rehashing some known facts with well-known views and trying to present some new "sellout" case with the news of the latest development in Gilgit-Baltistan..The fact is that any Pak move to "integrate" any part of PoK with itself only blows its political case of "self determination" to smithereens, without bringing any tangible incremental benefits..As the status quo power, India does not really care (in strategic terms) what Pakistan does with PoK administratively.

As for the periodic whines of "sellout", people tend to forget (maybe choose to forget) that there is a Parliament resolution on the "whole of Kashmir" being an integral part of India - passed during PVNR's time..

http://www.cifjkindia.org/legal_docs/le ... _006.shtml

As unambiguous as anything possible. Any govt wanting to make territorial concessions will need to go back to Parliament - and very few MPs will countenance anything like that, it will be political suicide for those who do.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 07 Jan 2010 09:53

AMAN KI TAMAASHA !!!

R. Krithivas

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Jan 2010 20:41

'Terrorists in Srinagar were in touch with Pak handlers'

STAFF WRITER 19:7 HRS IST

New Delhi, Jan 7 (PTI) The Lashker-e-Taiba terrorists, who were killed by security forces during the siege at Lal Chawk in Srinagar, were in constant touch with their handlers in Pakistan when they were holed up inside a hotel there. …………….

PTI

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Jan 2010 00:20

arun wrote:
'Terrorists in Srinagar were in touch with Pak handlers'

STAFF WRITER 19:7 HRS IST

New Delhi, Jan 7 (PTI) The Lashker-e-Taiba terrorists, who were killed by security forces during the siege at Lal Chawk in Srinagar, were in constant touch with their handlers in Pakistan when they were holed up inside a hotel there. …………….

PTI

AMAN ki Doorbhash

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 08 Jan 2010 03:06

From the article in Pioneer:

Now, Mr Mehdi Shah’s statement suggests that Islamabad is moving to formalise the status quo and turn Gilgit-Baltistan into a province of Pakistan. New Delhi must realise this means Islamabad will no longer support the fiction of ‘self-determination’ for the people of Jammu & Kashmir; all ‘diplomacy’ will involve de facto or de jure surrender of Indian territory.

It will be interesting to see how Kashmiri leaders react to this development. Yasin Malik of the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front had called the Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self Governance Order, 2009 “an arrow that has been shot into the hearts of Kashmiris.” He lamented that Pakistan had reneged its promise to consult all stakeholders before taking any decision. Even the Jamaat-e-Islami which favours Kashmir merging with Pakistan, and Syed Salahuddin of the United Jehad Council had opposed piece-meal solution of the Kashmir issue.

It is pertinent that only Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, chairman, All Parties Hurriyat Conference, with whom Union Home Minister P Chidambaram is engaged in ‘quiet talks,’ supported Pakistan’s political-administrative package for Gilgit-Baltistan, saying it met long-standing local aspirations. Mirwaiz was in recent months allowed by the Centre to visit Washington, London, and The Organisation of Islamic Conference, and appears to be in the loop on the emerging Western-Pakistan synergy to dismember India from the north, formally augment Pakistan for the Afghanistan war, while furthering western strategic objectives in the region.

By succumbing to American pressure to treat Jammu & Kashmir as an extra-national concern, by selecting an arbitrary set of ‘stake-holders’, the UPA has seriously compromised the national interest, national sovereignty, and national security.

So who was it that was saying there is "no evidence" that the Manmohan Singh-Sonia Maino cabal is selling out Indian interests lock, stock and barrel?

The problem with weighing these things on available "evidence" is that the availability of "evidence" itself is deliberately, carefully concealed from the Indian people by the perpetrators of the crime.

So that by the time the "evidence" comes (in this case official pronouncements of India's withdrawal from J&K, of India's recognition that the Northern Areas are an integral province of Pakistan, and Allah knows what else)... it will be too late for anybody to do a damn thing about it. The Manmohan-Maino cabal will simply purchase another election through the deft management of scarcities among the nation's votebanks. And three generations of Indian soldiers and civilians will have died utterly in vain.

Right now the evidence is in the form of "quiet talks" ...which, like all the GOI's "quiet talks", be they on climate change or the dysfunctionality our strategic arsenal, mere ordinary citizens of India are not considered worthy of knowing about. Never mind that the GOI is supposed to represent those very citizens.

We have no cause, absolutely none, to repose our faith in the good intentions or competence of this government. Their entire modus operandi has been to secretively implement policies on the down-low while distracting public attention with manufactured issues ("Malegaon Blasts", "Lieberhan Report") pumped out by the abjectly submissive media at high decibel levels.

That is why when a whistle blower like Santhanam emerges, many of us see no reason to give this bunch of secretive "father knows best" GOI operators any benefit of the doubt whatsoever. The one thing we do know about them is that they do not play straight, and keep their mismanagement hidden until the minute when they spring the results on us as a nasty surprise (witness Sharm-el-Shaikh). With a government like the Manmohan-Maino cabal, India has no need of enemies.

So, when the GOI says that we have a functional nuclear deterrent with devices more powerful than 25kT... or that J&K will always be an integral part of India... who in their right minds would believe them?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Jan 2010 04:12

Lal Chowk encounter.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 08 Jan 2010 13:10

2nd encounter in J&K in 48 hrs; 1 terrorist killed, others holed up

SRINAGAR: One separatist guerrilla of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) was Friday killed in an ongoing gunbattle in Jammu and Kashmir's Pulwama district, police said.

A senior police officer said paramilitary Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) troopers and police surrounded a house in Andrus (khew) village of Pulwama, 14 km from Srinagar, following information about presence of guerrillas inside the house.

"The hold-up militants were asked to surrender but they opened fire at the troops triggering a gun battle," the police officer told IANS.

One militant, identified as Altaf of LeT, was killed while the others were still firing at the surrounding troops.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jan 2010 13:36

So the poor chap KIA was a police driver - probably not even armed (and from the looks of it, no BPJ).