Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

[SwamyG]

Immigration into the island is controversial. Both sides claim they arrived before the other. However one thing that is not controversial is the even before these two groups, there were other groups who migrated to SL from South India - the indigenous people Veddas, Yakkas ityadi. Now they number in paltry thousands.

[RajeshA]

Immigration into the island is controversial. Both sides claim they arrived before the other. However one thing that is not controversial is the even before these two groups, there were other groups who migrated to SL from South India - the indigenous people Veddas, Yakkas ityadi. Now they number in paltry thousands.

Best thing is for India to establish a fund for funding higher fertility among Veddas, Yakkas, ityadi! For every child each couple gets a $1000 bucks. For a family with ten children, the couple can earn $10,000. In two generations they would become the majority and can kick all others out of the island being the original settlers. The Sri Lankans would be able to migrate to Hong Kong to their Chinese friends. The Tamils would be able to migrate to their Norwegian friends. Then there will be true peace.

And then out of gratitude the Veddas, Yakkas would then sign the Instrument of Accession to India.

[chetak]

Is it even clear what our 'supreme national interest' is.

It was this same 'supreme national interest' that handed kacha tivu over to lanka over the vehement objection of TN, something that has come back to bite us in the a$$ again and again. So excuse me if I think the rest of India lacks understanding of this area as well.....

The "family" does not have our supreme national interests at heart.

They are marching to the tune of some distant offshore drummers.

as is presently happening......

[chetak]

Instability in lanka will remain as long as Tamil are expected to become Singhalese before they become sri lankan. This is not hard to understand.

You have to think of it from the core Sir Lankan Tamil position. In conversation with several of them, their position is that they were on the Island first. The singhalese immigrated later. Recent DNA testing has shown that there is an element of truth in this claim. It will be interesting to see if the Singhalese can get them to back down.

This is utter nonsense. In India we expect everyone to be Indian first and everything else next. The lankan's are asking exactly the same. Why should it be any different in srilanka?? The lankan's are as secular as we are.

try thinking from the "core" of the cashmeri position and see how far you get. It matters not a whit who came first but what the majority of the nation state wills. Accommodation, certainly but compromise..... never. Incidentally, who was first in cashmere? Any convenient and "recent DNA testing" on that??

Similarly try thinking from the "core" of the amreki red indian position, the newzealand maori position, the australian aboriginal position, just to name a few. The sinhalese deserve better.

"In conversation with several of them"

, try picking a few sinhalese as well and look at the "core" of their position and to get a balanced view. I have had the opportunity to speak to people from both sides of the divide and my position stands.

The "core" gets compromised when extra territorial EJ or jehadi interest is the driving force. All terrorists are delusional. That is why the pakistanis are desperately trying to paint cashmeri terrorists as "home grown"

Your penchant for quoting unnamed or untraceable sources continues unabated . Lets hear the source and look at the veracity of your "recent DNA testing"...........

[Gus]

^before you jump the gun, at least read what he said.

Sinhalese = ethnicity/language/religion - in varying degrees (we can debate what is actually sinhalese).
Sri Lankan = citizen of SL with equal rights. we can debate what it is to be a sri lankan, broadly speaking, allegiance to a westphalian state, equal rights and responsibilities etc.

TF says, Sinhala ethnic chauvinists demand SL tamils to eschew their 'tamil ness' (whatever that means) and become sinhalese (whatever that means) before they can be accepted as Sri Lankan.

That is his opinion. You can argue against that instead of going off on lectures on nationalism, secularism, EJism etc.

[chetak]

^before you jump the gun, at least read what he said.

Sinhalese = ethnicity/language/religion - in varying degrees (we can debate what is actually sinhalese).
Sri Lankan = citizen of SL with equal rights. we can debate what it is to be a sri lankan, broadly speaking, allegiance to a westphalian state, equal rights and responsibilities etc.

TF says, Sinhala ethnic chauvinists demand SL tamils to eschew their 'tamil ness' (whatever that means) and become sinhalese (whatever that means) before they can be accepted as Sri Lankan.

That is his opinion. You can argue against that instead of going off on lectures on nationalism, secularism, EJism etc.

On the contrary the tamils are demanding that the sinhalese recognize and reward their tamilness before all else. Like others in "similar" positions.

[Sanku]

Instability in lanka will remain as long as Tamil are expected to become Singhalese before they become sri lankan. This is not hard to understand.

You have to think of it from the core Sir Lankan Tamil position. In conversation with several of them, their position is that they were on the Island first. The singhalese immigrated later. Recent DNA testing has shown that there is an element of truth in this claim. It will be interesting to see if the Singhalese can get them to back down.

Well yes I understand that there are a lot of people in the West who find the fire in Sri Lanka a nice little blaze to warm their hands and cook their agendas of spreading Xism under made up social engineering theories like in Hutu's and Tustsi's. This current attempt at Psy-ops from the Paki four father is one such.

Unfortunately, the time has passed, peace is there, stablility is present. The Xists are defeated, it will take a while for it to sink in after which the ro-dho will taper out, but that is what it is.

[Sanku]

TF says, Sinhala ethnic chauvinists demand SL tamils to eschew their 'tamil ness' (whatever that means) and become sinhalese (whatever that means) before they can be accepted as Sri Lankan.

That is his opinion. You can argue against that instead of going off on lectures on nationalism, secularism, EJism etc.

His opinion is inextricably linked with the issue of EJism unfortunately.

EJism is actively working to exacerbate the fault lines, and create a "victimization complex" and draw off it. Yes there were real issues in the past, but those have been actively used to turn the society into a bitterly hostile camps, and then harvest souls in the death and devastation of the battlefield.

They have tried the same stunts in India too. The maoist problem is pretty much like the LTTE problem in India.

[Philip]

Tx Swamy.You have hit upon a point which I'd elaborated upon aeons ago,which explains why in Lanka the cycle of violence returns time and time again.Bad governance.Now post Independence,in the island,just as it was with Kerala,the ruling party got trounced at the polls.So the pendelum swung from socialism to capitalism every time ,from SLFP/Left coalitions to UNP's (Uncle Nephew party) crony capitalism.

The two defining moments in Lankan post-Independence ethnic history were the riots in 1958 and 1983.

1958:
From Wik

[quote] In 1956, Solomon Bandaranaike came to power in Sri Lanka (then known as Ceylon), on a majority Sinhala nationalist platform. The new government passed the Sinhala Only Act, making Sinhala the sole official language of the country. This was done despite the fact that nearly a quarter of the population used Tamil as their primary language. The Act immediately triggered discontent among the Tamils, who perceived their language, culture, and economic position as being subject to an increasing threat.[4]

In protest, Tamil Federal Party politicians launched a satyagraha (Nonviolent resistance) campaign. This led to an environment of increased communal tensions and to the death of over 150 Tamils in the Gal Oya riots in the east of the country.[1] Eventually Bandaranaike entered into negotiations with them and the Federal party and agreed to the Bandaranaike-Chelvanayakam Pact of 1957, which would have made Tamil the administrative language in the Tamil-speaking north and east regions. But he was forced to cancel the pact under pressure from Sinhala nationalists and some Buddhist monks, particularly the United National Party, which organised a 'March on Kandy', led by JR Jayawardene.[4][5][6]

Meanwhile, 400 Tamil labourers were laid off when the British navy closed its base in Trincomalee. The government proposed to resettle them in the Polonnaruwa district. This angered the Sinhalese population there, which began forming gangs and threatening vigilante attacks on any Tamil migrants to the region.[7][quote]

After a few incidents of violence around the country it escalated as follows:

[quote]The violence spreads

On 26 May, Prime Minister Bandaranaike said the riots had started with the death of Nuwara Eliya mayor D.A. Seneviratne the previous day (actually the riots had begun three days before). This gave people the impression that Tamils were behind the riots. Soon gangs began beating Tamils in Colombo and several of its suburbs. Shops were burned and looted.[11]

In Panadura, Tamils had cut off the breasts of and murdered a woman teacher. In revenge, a Sinhalese gang tried to burn down the Hindu Kovil; unable to set fire to the building, they pulled out a Brahmin priest and burned him alive instead.[12] Gangs roamed Colombo, looking for people who might be Tamil. The usual way to distinguish Tamils from Sinhalese was to look for men who wore shirts outside of their pants, or men with pierced ears, both common customs among Tamils. People who could not read a Sinhala newspaper (which included some Sinhalese who were educated in English) were beaten or killed.[13]

One trick used by the gangs was to disguise themselves as policemen. They would tell Tamils to flee to the police station for their safety. Once the Tamils had left, the empty houses were looted and burned. Across the country, arson, rape, pillage and murder spread. Some Sinhalese did try to protect their Tamil neighbours, often risking their own lives to shelter them in their homes.
Revenge attacks

Tamils in the east carried out a few attacks as revenge. In Eravur, fishermen from the two communities fought on the seashore. In the same town, Tamil gangs set up roadblocks, beating up motorists believed to be Sinhalese. 56 cases of arson and attacks were registered in the Batticaloa district.[14] No deaths were reported in Jaffna district, but some Sinhalese merchants had their inventories burned. Several Sinhalese were severely beaten, including members of Marxist parties, who stood for parity of status. A Tamil mob destroyed the Buddhist Naga Vihare temple, which was rebuilt afterwards.[15]
Government response

For five full days the government did nothing. Finally, on 27 May, a state of emergency was declared. The Federal Party and Jathika Vimukthi Peramuna were both banned. Most of the country's senior Tamil politicians were Federal Party members and were later arrested. Within two days, the military had restored order in Colombo and eventually the rest of the country. Nearly 12,000 Tamil refugees had fled to camps near Colombo. The government secretly commissioned six European ships to resettle most of them in Jaffna in early June. The army was eventually withdrawn from civilian areas in the rest of the country, but remained present in Jaffna for a quarter century.

On 3 September 1958 the Tamil Language (Special Provisions) Act – which provided for the use of the Tamil language as a medium of instruction, as a medium of examination for admission to the Public Service, for use in state correspondence and for administrative purposes in the Northern and Eastern Provinces – was passed, substantially fulfilling the part of the Bandaranaike-Chelvanayagam Pact dealing with the language issue.[16]
Legacy
See also: Sri Lankan Tamil Nationalism and Sri Lankan civil war

As the first full-scale race riot in Ceylon in over forty years, the events of 1958 shattered the trust the communities had in one another.[17] Both major ethnic groups blamed the other for the crisis, and became convinced that any further compromises would be interpreted as a sign of weakness and be exploited. Thus, the path to civil war was clear. Velupillai Prabhakaran, a small boy at the time of the riots, said later that his political views as an adult were shaped by the events of 1958.[quote]

SWRD Bandaranaike was later assassinated in a right wing plot where a youth in the robes of a monk shot him on his front verandah.He later died in hospital after making a death-bed speech of forgiveness on the radio.Here is an account of the event.

[quote]The premier of the nation was in the front verandah of his house meeting people who had come to see him. People stood in line awaiting their turn. Talduwe Somarama also waited patiently in the queue for his turn.

When the priest’s name was announced Bandaranaike got up respectfully, walked up and knelt down as was the custom in greeting a Buddhist priest. As the prime minister was getting up the Buddhist priest took out a pistol concealed in his robes and fired four times at point blank range hitting the victim in the abdomen and chest.

Tragically Bandaranaike never suspected any threat to his person and was unbelievably unconcerned about security. Given the levels of security available to VVIP’s today it is mind boggling to know that only a Police sergeant was in charge of the Prime Minister’s security 50 years ago.

MAGNANIMOUS

Bandaranaike was rushed to the General Hospital at Borella and admitted to the Merchants ward. In a message issued to the nation from his hospital bed the Prime minister was extremely magnanimous towards the man who shot him.

Instead of referring to him directly as a Buddhist priest,SWRDB described him “as a foolish man dressed in the robes of a monk”. The premier also called upon the government and authorities to “show compassion to this man and not try to wreak vengeance on him”.[quote]


In '71,the Marxist JVP tried to instigate a revolution when Mrs.B. was in power.It was a touch and go situ,and put down with extreme prejudice,with India aiding/protecting the GOSL.

In 1977,JR Jayawardene-the man who sabotaged the Bandaranaike-Chelvanayakam Pact in the late 50's won a landslide election .While out of power,he promised the tamils TULF a solution to their devolution problem ,but in fact,this is what he did.

[quote]Anti-Left pogrom

Prior to the 1977 elections, JR Jayawardene promised that he would give the Police a week's leave so that his supporters could attack members of opposing parties. After his victory, his Government launched unprecedented state violence against the opposition, targeting supporters of the Sri Lanka Freedom Party, the Lanka Sama Samaja Party, the Communist Party of Sri Lanka, and the People's Democratic Party. In particular, some 9,000 families of supporters of LSSP leader NM Perera in Yatiyantota were driven from their homes, many of which were destroyed.[quote]

Riots broke out after the election,about 300 Tamils were reportedly killed.Then JRJ thanks to his overwhelming electoral majority changed the Constitution and made himself Executive President,with more powers than either the US or French president! His promise to the TULF was kept by sabotaging the District Council elections in '81,the burning of the Jaffna Library,etc.,which then saw the Tamil militant groups accelerating their activities,leading to the ambush and killing of 13 soldiers in a land mine explosion in July '83 which started off the '83 riots and ,start of the Eelam War.This exemplified his boast of ushering in a "dharmishta " society.

From the above quotes,one can see that when true democracy was derailed in the island and oppression of the people commonplace (JRJ's police even brutally assaulted women protesters in a Colombo march,and despite Supreme Court indictment of the policeman responsible,immediately promoted him after the judgement!),a violent reaction from the suffering people became inevitable.The Rajapakse regime seems too seems to learning nothing from the country's history.

[Theo_Fidel]

Immigration into the island is controversial. Both sides claim they arrived before the other. However one thing that is not controversial is the even before these two groups, there were other groups who migrated to SL from South India - the indigenous people Veddas, Yakkas ityadi. Now they number in paltry thousands.

SwamyG,

True only.

For that matter this is true of India too. A bit OT but there were people in India 80,000 years ago who undoubtedly spoke some version of an African bush language. Tiny remnants remain for instance in Andaman still speaking those languages. The Maternal line in India is still vastly dominated by the genetics of these folks. In the long run their genetics will overwhelm all the other genetic groups. The Tamil mythology is that they were there first, so it is hard to know how they can change without giving up their entire origin myth. This is similar to the problem the Serbs had in Kosovo.

But the fact that India is federal and has no expectations of identities to become Indian is still the key difference. This not true of any of the states in our neighborhood. The day lanka becomes more like India their instability will cease, but who is going to tell that to Rajapakse.

[RoyG]

Tiny remnants remain for instance in Andaman still speaking those languages. The Maternal line in India is still vastly dominated by the genetics of these folks. In the long run their genetics will overwhelm all the other genetic groups. The Tamil mythology is that they were there first, so it is hard to know how they can change without giving up their entire origin myth. This is similar to the problem the Serbs had in Kosovo.

Tamil mythology? Genetics will overwhelm all other genetic groups? Can you please justify these claims.

[Sanku]

Tiny remnants remain for instance in Andaman still speaking those languages. The Maternal line in India is still vastly dominated by the genetics of these folks. In the long run their genetics will overwhelm all the other genetic groups. The Tamil mythology is that they were there first, so it is hard to know how they can change without giving up their entire origin myth. This is similar to the problem the Serbs had in Kosovo.

Tamil mythology? Genetics will overwhelm all other genetic groups? Can you please justify these claims.

Not Tamil mythology, nothing of this hare brained third rate theory of insiders and outsiders has any Tamil patronage. This is "modern" (as in 19th century AIT-Dravid crap) theory spread by Macauly, Max Muller and their types.

[RajeshA]

For that matter this is true of India too. A bit OT but there were people in India 80,000 years ago who undoubtedly spoke some version of an African bush language. Tiny remnants remain for instance in Andaman still speaking those languages. The Maternal line in India is still vastly dominated by the genetics of these folks. In the long run their genetics will overwhelm all the other genetic groups. The Tamil mythology is that they were there first, so it is hard to know how they can change without giving up their entire origin myth. This is similar to the problem the Serbs had in Kosovo.

But the fact that India is federal and has no expectations of identities to become Indian is still the key difference. This not true of any of the states in our neighborhood. The day lanka becomes more like India their instability will cease, but who is going to tell that to Rajapakse.

You're saying the Indian identity doesn't exist nor the State encourages its building! You are making some pretty big assumptions about India!

[Philip]

What the GOI seems to have forgotten is that almost ALL Sri Lankans look to India as their spiritual home.If it only invested in making it easy for pilgrims of predominantly Hindu and Buddhist persuasions to travel and visit the holy places of their faith in India,it would bring massive PR gains.There are aloso a lalrge number of Christians too who visit Velankanni in Tnadu,etc.,but what do the likes of Vaiko and co. do? They hunt them down and beat them up! The papers reported last week that Lankan pilgrims to Velankanni could not get there as Vaiko and co. allegedly were waiting for them -they could not get back to Trichy from where they had arrived and had to be escorted to Madras to get back home!

I can understand peacefully demonstrating against visiting Lankan ministers,regime members,but innocent pilgrims? It shows how the Eelamist sympathisers are nothing but a nauseating,vulgar goons,who look to their departed fuhrer Prabhakaran for inspiration.They are a disgrace to India.

[Sanku]

I can understand peacefully demonstrating against visiting Lankan ministers,regime members,but innocent pilgrims? It shows how the Eelamist sympathisers are nothing but a nauseating,vulgar goons,who look to their departed fuhrer Prabhakaran for inspiration.They are a disgrace to India.

Seriously, and the same people will talk about "freedom to pursue religion and diversity at the drop of the hat"

No different from Islamists, in any way.

[nvishal]

It's sad to say this but india has only managed to fool itself wrt to neighbourhood states.

Respect comes from fear. On the other hand, we(india) have ignored the developments in the peripheral states on the context that they are childish or immature.

If mischief is not punished, the mischief will continue to be encouraged. It's a cliché wisdom yet we choosed to ignore it since 1947(self-rule).

Mark my words, if india doesn't solve nepal, srilanka and bhutan right now, the problem is going to spread to the border areas and soon indian states adjoining those borders regions are going to have problems with severe strategic consequences to all of india.

Nepal and bhutan will need full fledged economic partnership and co-operation; not simple economic assistance.

Srilanka will need military and then political intervention. These idiots have still not gotten over the fact that how vedas had triumphed over siddharta after nearly being wiped out completely.

[RajeshA]

It's sad to say this but india has only managed to fool itself wrt to neighbourhood states.

Respect comes from fear. On the other hand, we(india) have ignored the developments in the peripheral states on the context that they are childish or immature.

If mischief is not punished, the mischief will continue to be encouraged. It's a cliché wisdom yet we choosed to ignore it since 1947(self-rule).

Mark my words, if india doesn't solve nepal, srilanka and bhutan right now, the problem is going to spread to the border areas and soon indian states adjoining those borders regions are going to have problems with severe strategic consequences to all of india.

Respect comes from clear moral leadership. The categories in which one needs to think and which one needs to impose on the rest of the world, through which one achieves clarity, even they are completely missing from public discourse. So chances are low that one can even see what one's interests are!

I am not saying that this is the case, but what if the Sinhalese are the ones who have their moral leadership compass right and we are the ones who don't?! How do we know that that is not the case? How do we judge right and wrong? From which goal do we judge who is trying to bring us there, they or we? The only model we have is the Nehruvian and the Westphalian state model to guide us! Do these models suffice? Do they represent morality? Do they represent the interests of Indians? We may be imprisoned in Mayajaal!

But let's not talk of things which may create allergic reactions!

[member_20317]

Immigration into the island is controversial. Both sides claim they arrived before the other. However one thing that is not controversial is the even before these two groups, there were other groups who migrated to SL from South India - the indigenous people Veddas, Yakkas ityadi. Now they number in paltry thousands.

SwamyG,

True only.

For that matter this is true of India too. A bit OT but there were people in India 80,000 years ago who undoubtedly spoke some version of an African bush language. Tiny remnants remain for instance in Andaman still speaking those languages. The Maternal line in India is still vastly dominated by the genetics of these folks. In the long run their genetics will overwhelm all the other genetic groups. The Tamil mythology is that they were there first, so it is hard to know how they can change without giving up their entire origin myth. This is similar to the problem the Serbs had in Kosovo.

But the fact that India is federal and has no expectations of identities to become Indian is still the key difference. This not true of any of the states in our neighborhood. The day lanka becomes more like India their instability will cease, but who is going to tell that to Rajapakse.

Theo ji your point about mythology & genetics being related are good but that does not in anyway impinge upon the Tamil-Sinhala problem. The problem is a relatively recent one. If you go back in history all claims to exclusivity based on history begin to fall apart.

Tamils mythology claiming that they were there first does not make them the exclusive or even first claimants because, at the time they went over SL would have been a vast vast country to them, entirely beyond their limited capacity to consume/enjoy/use/employ/etc. They used whatever they could and in time new people came along. Today with the population explosion SL looks like a small cramped place.


About the highlighted part, you may have noticed how the Hindus claim to be very ancient, son of the soil and continuity but still uphold the essential claim of those on the outside to the common heritage. There is hardly anything exclusive/communal (of the community of hindus) in the ancient claims being made. In much the same manner any Tamil claim of ancient past cannot be used to propagate:

Mythical claim ->exclusivity->New Claim based on exclusivity.

3000-5000 years back who know how both these populations saw themselves. Perhaps they treated themselves as cousins civilizations. In such a case the claim of a piece of land by usage cannot be put into contest with a claim from mythology.

The best that a Mythical claim supports is the sanctity of the link between the present Tamils and the ancient Tamils. That surely should not be compromised.

Theo ji any which way we look at it, people do get influenced by others living nearby. That is natural and in time the content of the civilization itself undergoes an irreversible change. Something like that will happen to the SL Tamils and SL Sinhalas also esp. considering the gargantuan presence of the Indians nearby. The point is how the three apparently disparate groups establish a working relationship without stepping on each others toes. The idea of Common minimum programs would help. Overtime CMPs will help both groups redefine themselves.

[Sanku]

-- I am an idiot --

[member_20317]

Sanku ji, whatever I do I do it with entirely selfish motives. What I have stated w.r.t. SL is also what I accept for myself w.r..t India and what I hold out to the world at large.

Besides it probably was not noticed or perhaps ignored but I have fought besides Theo ji with some of the jokers you are dealing with on the other thread. That was an important fight, at least for me. I am merely repaying a debt not cutting some slack. We lost that one. But then I am a fanatic.

[Sanku]

ravi_g -- I have had a very very high opinion of Theo ji till say two-three weeks back, since then, either Theo ji is doing a pisko experiment on us, or has his computer hacked, or I dont know what. His posts just don't make sense any more.

Particularly considering Theo-ji's prior posts. I am appalled -- I have used some harsh words for him despite myself, and feel stupid for doing so. But some ideas he has been putting out **shudder**

I need to learn from you and keep myself in check though.

=================================================

Theo-ji, if you are reading this, unqualified apologies.

[SwamyG]

Philip Saar I am lost at the intention or the points you are trying to make in that post which start with an address to me. Can you clarify? Thanks.

[SwamyG]

Chetak:
Equating India's 'secularness' to SL or any other country does not hold water. Looking at India, quite objectively without the lens of Indians, NRIs, OCIs ityadi; India as a modern state or even in the form of several Empires was greatly pluralistic. Yes, Rajahs would build temples pertaining to a specific sampradayams, and donated liberally to almost anything that could influence them - Jaina, Baudha, Hindu etc. However there is no systematic oppression by Rajahs or the current India on people of different faith.

In addition, there is no history of systematic discrimination by the State. Sure, people have discriminated each other and even gone to the extent of oppression and committing hate/social crimes. India as a state has never indulged in hate mongering on its own citizens or even foreign citizens. The same thing cannot be said of the mighty large countries.

And, SL does not come anywhere near to India. I am surprised you are ignoring the discrimination conducted by GoSL right from its independence.

Before we get any further, it makes sense to get some clarification. I will explain my position/understanding, and ask couple of questions, and you can do the same.

1. Sinhalese and Tamilians are both immigrants in the land.
2. They settled in different regions.
3. Over the years differences arose.
4. After independence GoSL has discriminated against tamilians.
5. After initial peaceful protests, tamilians created an armed resistance.
6. Atrocities were committed by both sides.
7. Tamil militant groups were defeated.
8. SL continues to limp forward, however has not been vastly improved for the tamilians.


Do you agree with the above? If not which ones don't you agree and why?

[Javee]

^Exactly right. I still dont understand how SL is close to India. Our constitution strives for some sorta equality for the masses while the Srilankan constitution blatantly discriminates Tamils. This simple concept that the biggest minority is systematically discriminated by the state for a period of 50+ years is overlooked because a group of them was involved in terrorism is mind boggling. Anything the state does to that population is always right because they had LTTE or there was also a reasoning that Srilanka as a state always does total annihilation (JVP) does not make it right.

[Theo_Fidel]

SwamyG,

The point I’m feebly trying to make is that the country of India does not expect anyone to give up their origin myth. AFAIK even scientologists worshiping the god/goddess xenu living in a random volcano would be fully accepted as Indian citizens and would be treated the same legally as a Jain Digambara monk.

BTW you know me and the tamasha I have making royal fun of the pi$$y types who argue on the basis of who came first. I was here 30,000 years ago vs you 'onlee' got here 15,000 years ago. What nonsense is this. The thing is people most definitely believe this sort of stuff and if we tell them to stop believing you end up with lanka style instability.

Singhalese very much believe the nation & the state belongs to them only. It will only be a matter of time before they do something stupid again.

RajeshA,

The expectations of the country and the expectations of the state are different. I hope you can see that.

Sanku-saan,

I suspect we will never see eye-to-eye on the status and need to free the women of India from, IMO shackles and servitude, one step above slavery. This is what triggered our disagreement esp. my westernized EJ style prescriptions. Oddly enough I'm unacceptable in at least one evangelical church for this very same view.

[Philip]

Swamy,small % of mischief makers,who have considerable influence,like JRJ,who sabotaged the B_C pact in the late '50s and was primarily responsible for the events leading up to the riots of '83,did precious little to stop them and betrayed the Tamil political establishment that he would usher in serious constitutional reforms bringing in devolution.

Secondly,the global ideological slant of some of these rulers,like JRJ,very pro-US,who during his regime was suspected of planning to allow the US to set up bases/surveillance posts,etc.

[RajeshA]

RajeshA,

The expectations of the country and the expectations of the state are different. I hope you can see that..

Are you referring to common link language?

[RamaY]

If we are to understand the simple fact that the British sowed enough agents, fissures in place when they are forced to leave the Sub-continent, and they continue to promote these agents and fissures using the modern international structures, NGOs, propaganda machinery etc; then lot of Tamas covering our eyes will go away.

In SL/LTTE fight who were propped, supported and funded by western govts, institutions and structures?

How is LTTE any different from NE terrorism or Khalistan terrorism or JK terrorism? How is the supporters of LTTE different from the JK lovers and Khalistan lovers?

[SwamyG]

Philip saar, you might argue it is only a small percentage of politicians or aam admi of SL who discriminates another community. I will buy that argument without questions purely based on how we humans behave. Some might argue majority of Sinhalese are Buddhist fanatic. Ignoring that argument for now, small or major percentage does not matter if GoSL enacts discriminatory policies.

Just like only a small percentage of Muslims (or Pakistanis) cause the trouble, yet we expect that community or nation to be answerable is similar to what we are expecting here.

[Agnimitra]

Posted before? Reported wave of Hindu temple destruction by the Religion Of Non-violence. Any confirmation?

367 Hindu Temples said to be Demolished in Sri Lanka

Feb 10, 2013 — TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA (SUNTHANTHIRAN) — The International Policy Digest has authentically published a shocking news item, that 367 Hindu temples have been demolished in Sri Lanka, in areas predominantly populated by Hindu Tamils. This document released in March 2012, has come out in the media now, and has created panic amongst the Tamils.

The Rajapakse government in Sri Lanka, according to this report, is all out to destroy the Tamil monuments in predominant Tamil areas, to prove that no such areas existed, while settling rural Sinhalese folks in those areas and silently destroying Hindu temples.

The Tamil enthusiastics have vehemently protested that by destroying Hindu temples, the Sri Lankan government is determined to wipe-out the cultural heritage of the Hindu temples. It has been specifically mentioned that in Jaffna alone, 208 temples have been destroyed.

In the Trincomalee district in Eastern province, where most of the Tamils live, 17 Hindu temples in villages such as Upparavu, Lankapatnam, Saambal theevu, have been destroyed.

Eleven temples built for Lord Ganesha, Lord Murugan, Bairavar and Kannagi Amman, in Ninthavoor, Attapalam, Paalamunai are totalled in the Amparai district. Six temples in Inthupuram, Manikkapuram, Union Kulam in Kilinochchi district, and in Mullaitheevu area of Mankulam, Periyakulam, Oddusuddan and some small villages too, many have been destroyed, with no trace of them being there originally.

In the Manaar district, prominent temples for Siththi Vinayagar, Thurgai Amman, Valividu Vinayagar, Muthumariamman, have been demolished in the villages of Vettaimurappu, Kurinjan Kulam, Parunthu Kadanthaan and Pillayar Patti.

In Vavuniya district, a total of 12 temples have been demolished, burnt and destroyed.

Source: Sunthanthiran (Tamil Weekly News), January 25, 2013

[Sanku]

8. SL continues to limp forward, however has not been vastly improved for the tamilians.


Do you agree with the above? If not which ones don't you agree and why?

SwamyG, I by and large agree with you with some minor disagreements.

5. After initial peaceful protests, tamilians created an armed resistance, with Indian support as a means to punish GoSL for its pro US anti India slant
6. Atrocities were committed by both sides, at this stage the atrocities were minor.
6a. India and the Tamil militias forced GoSL to come to negotiating table, a workable accord was signed.

6b. Many powers did not like this, and put forth LTTE as the deal breaker. This is where the shit hit the fan.
6c. Many atrocities were committed by everyone, with LTTE outdoing everyone by a HUGE large margin.
7. Tamil militant LTTE terrorist groups werewas defeated. The other Tamil militant groups were all murdered by LTTE in step 6b.
8. SL continues to limp forward, however has not been vastly improved for the tamilians. the situation today is now vastly different, the older discriminatory step are all removed, and a devolution package is being worked on, realistically it will take a few years before it can be put in place given last 25 years of mayhem in the North.

Cheers....

[Sanku]

Sanku-saan,

I suspect we will never see eye-to-eye on the status and need to free the women of India from, IMO shackles and servitude, one step above slavery. This is what triggered our disagreement esp. my westernized EJ style prescriptions. Oddly enough I'm unacceptable in at least one evangelical church for this very same view.

Theo-ji, my disagreements on each and every topic are "topical" and have nothing to do with each other. There are a few differences arising out of "grand large view of the world" but I express them topically too and make sure the both are expressed. So no, my points here it has nothing to do with your view on women.

In fact I had totally forgotten about them -- but now that you raise it, to my mind, your views on women are sort of "Women of the world unite you have nothing to lose but your chains" type of rhetoric, i.e. while ostensibly working to provide for betterment are actually a scheme to bind them into slavery of the ONE WAY with women being slaves morning to night and reading THE BOOK (not the book) of women as a means for succor.

So thanks but no thanks, the women I know have shared your views with (as a thought experiment) shuddered at your views as being "hateful" and deeply misogynist btw.

[svenkat]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/selfimmolation-for-twin-cause-of-sri-lankan-tamils-corruption/article4476179.ece

In a note, he wanted to consider it as first vote to get a separate Tamil Eelam

L. Mani (48), belonging to the fishermen community at Nallavadu near here, who attempted immolation in front of the Cuddalore Collectorate on Monday afternoon and suffered over 70 per cent burns, died in the Kilpauk Medical College Hospital in Chennai at night.

Earlier, he had been taken to the Cuddalore headquarters government hospital for first aid and then referred to the Chennai hospital.

It is learnt that he was earlier acting as the Cuddalore union coordinator of the Naam Tamilar Katchi and later, became content with the membership of the party.

Soon after the Tamil organisations and certain political parties staged a black flag demonstration in front of the Cuddalore Head Post Office against Sri Lanka President Mahinda Rajapaksa, Mr. Mani came near the Collectorate about 12.40 p.m., doused himself with kerosene and set himself ablaze. The shopkeepers in the vicinity poured water on him and alerted the police.

In a partly typewritten and partly handwritten note left at the spot, Mr. Mani said that on the day when the US was moving a resolution in the United Nations Human Rights Council against the Sri Lankan Government for its war crimes, it was a right decision on his part to sacrifice his life for the cause of the Tamil brethren in the island nation.

He said that the sacrifice of his life should be considered as the first vote for the Tamils to get a separate Tamil Eelam.

He also said that for the past five years, he had been fighting in a democratic manner against the corrupt officials who turned a Nelson’s eye to the substandard construction of the permanent houses built for the tsunami-affected people in Cuddalore district.

Actually, he planned to observe a fast-unto-death in this regard either in front of the Madras High Court or the Cuddalore court. But as he apprehended impediments, he had decided to end his life, hoping that after his death a solution could be found to this vexatious issue. He noted that the moral responsibility, if he died, should be shared by the former District Collector, a contractor who built the permanent houses, and a High Court lawyer who exploited him.

Mr. Mani also observed that his patriotism had forced him to give up overseas jobs, including the one with a shipping company, and return to India on August 15, 2000 (Independence Day).

He had tattooed the National Flag and the word “Indian” on his right shoulder. He had volunteered to donate his eyes and body organs after his death. So far he had donated blood for 26 times. It may be noted that he had been making several representations to the officials, drawing their attention to the substandard quality of the tsunami houses.

Once he picked a quarrel on the issue with a woman staff member of the District Rural Development Agency and beat her up with footwear for which he was jailed from October 15, 2012 to October 19. Later, he was enlarged on bail. Some more harassment cases are said to be pending against him in the Reddychavadi police station.

He joins muthukumaran,veeralakshi among those have self-immolated themselves.

[svenkat]

Azad may represent Congress at TESO meet as Rahul gives green light

The TESO (Tamil Eelam Supporters’ Organisation) conference to be held in New Delhi on March 7 dominated the agenda at Congress vice president Rahul Gandhi’s first-ever closed door meeting with the party’s Tamil Nadu leaders on Monday.

While party leaders, including three prominent ministers from the State, P Chidambaran, Jayanthi Natarajan and G K Vasan, voiced different opinions on the party’s participation at the TESO conference, sources said, Rahul veered around to accepting the majority view that nothing much will be lost by marking a presence at the conference.

Sources said, it was decided that Union Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad, who’s also the AICC in charge of Tamil Nadu, may attend the conference. However, a final decision will be taken only after Azad meets Congress president Sonia Gandhi on Tuesday.

UPA ally DMK, which is organising the conference, ostensibly to generate political support for the cause of Sri Lankan Tamils at the national level, invited the main opposition BJP to the meet to spite the Congress party. The latter till now has remained ambivalent about the attending the conference citing diplomatic compulsions and the China bogey.

In fact, Congress spokesperson P C Chacko said that the party is unlikely to attend the conference, being held in the wake of the fresh allegations of war crime surfacing against the Mahinda Rajapaksa Government in a Channel 4 documentary. It is expected to be shown at the TESO meet.

It seems, Cuddalore MP K S Alagiri, known to be close to Chidambaram, was the first to press for a decision on the TESO conference. This was right at the beginning of Rahul’s meeting, called to discuss the political situation in TN. Sources said that Environment and Forest Minister Jayanthi Natarajan joined in to say that it was “the issue’’ that needs to be a discussed. Finance Minister P Chidambaram apparently then told Rahul that “there was nothing to be lost’’ by the Congress attending the conference as the party’s stand on the Lankan Tamil issue is already well known.

At this point, Vasan raised some doubts saying that the DMK may try to embarrass the Congress at the conference. His view, however, was countered on the ground that the focus of the conference was the Lanka and not the Congress party.

Apart from the TESCO meet, sources said that Rahul carefully listened to the problems being faced by the Tamil fisher-folk, especially in the hands of the Lankan Navy. Interestingly, prior to this meet, Rahul had one-to-one sessions with DMK Parliamentary Party Leader T R Baalu and DMK chief’s M Karunanidhi’s daughter Kanimozhi last week.

Sources said, with the Lankan issue dominating the agenda, Rahul did not find much time to take up anything else at the 30-minute meet. More so as the Congress Delhi unit leaders landed up for their meeting with him. Since this is the first time that he is taking these meetings instead of Sonia, he was quizzed about it by the media. He, however, gave out nothing.

[svenkat]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Anti-Lankan-stir-hits-traffic-near-Valluvar-Kottam/articleshow/18822823.cms

Hundreds of DMK leaders and partymen, including party treasurer M K Stalin, were arrested on Tuesday when they attempted to picket the Sri Lankan deputy high commission in Chennai, demanding a probe against the island nation for alleged war crimes

After Stalin and others were released in evening, Tamil Eelam Supporters' Organisation (Teso) members called on DMK chief M Karunanidhi. The meeting also passed a resolution calling for a statewide bandh on March 12 to press the Centre to vote for the US-sponsored resolution against Lanka at United Nations Human Rights Commission (UNHRC). Along with Stalin, several senior DMK leaders, DK leader K Veeramani and VCK leader Thol Thirumavalavan, representing the TESO, were rounded up by police when they marched from the Valluvar Kottam to the Sri Lankan mission on Sterling Road. "About 30 countries have agreed to vote in favour of the US resolution. India should also support the resolution and follow our former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's footsteps on human rights issues," Stalin told reporters.

The protesters raised slogans asking the Centre not to betray Tamil interests and not to underestimate Tamil sentiments. Karunanidhi expressed hope that the US-sponsored resolution at the UNHRC against Sri Lanka would be passed. Callum Macrae, director of the Channel 4 documentary on Eelam war, called Karunanidhi and Stalin and expressed solidarity with their protest.

[Sanku]

Congress is making the same mistake -- again.

[svenkat]

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/madurai/Subramanian-Swamys-office-attacked/articleshow/18824423.cms

Unidentified miscreants pelted stones on the office of Janata Party president, Subramanian Swamy in Madurai on Tuesday.

Police suspect that it could be the handiwork of students of the Government Law College in Madurai, who were staging a protest in the wake of Swamy's recent meeting with Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapakse in Colombo.

Police said that the name board in the office was damaged. The protesters also lowered the party flag and tore it slamming Swamy for his alleged support to the Sri Lankan government when that country was facing charges of war crime. There was no one at the office when the incident happened and the building was locked. Police said that a group of more than 20 men came to Lal Bahadur Shastri Road raising slogans against Swamy in the morning and started pelting stones. They fled the spot as soon as police came.

[Aditya_V]

They are Ullu of the Tamil Public by these Shennigans by TESO backed by DMK and INC

[svenkat]

TN MPs Meet Rahul Over Lankan Tamils Issue

Congress MPs from Tamil Nadu today told Rahul Gandhi that India should take a tough stand against Sri Lanka at the upcoming UN meet on Tamils issue as it was crucial for the party's future in the state.

Party sources said that the MPs including Union Ministers P Chidamabaram, G K Vasan and Jayanthi Natarajan and PCC Chief B S Gnanadesikan wanted India to support the resolution at the UN Human Rights Commission on the Sri Lankan Tamil's issue and found the party Vice-President "very sympathetic" to the cause of Tamils.

The meeting came in the wake of Dravidian parties, DMK and AIADMK, making the Tamil problem a major issue in state politics and putting pressure on the Centre to take a tough stand in the UN Human Rights Commission.DMK, a key UPA constituent, had said in the Rajya Sabha last week that it has lost faith in the government on the issue and its members had staged a walkout

[svenkat]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/general-strike-on-march-12-to-seek-centres-support/article4479465.ece?ref=sliderNews

The Tamil Eelam Supporters Organisation (TESO) called for a general strike in Tamil Nadu on March 12, demanding that India support the resolution to be moved by the U.S. against Sri Lanka at the UN Human Rights Council for rights violations in the last phase of the war.

A meeting chaired by DMK president M. Karunanidhi adopted a resolution for the dawn-to-dusk (6 am to 6 pm) general strike and called upon the public, traders, workers, students, supporters of Tamil cause and government employees to support it.


Callum Macrae, director of the Channel 4 documentary on alleged war crimes, conveyed his support for the protest. Mr Macrae called DMK treasurer M.K. Stalin and Mr. Karunanidhi and expressed his solidarity, according to the DMK.

“He called from Switzerland and conveyed his support. He also wanted to express his regards for DMK president M. Karunanidhi,” said a press release from the party.