Indian Interests

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 22 Oct 2011 05:56

RajeshA wrote:And what comes next?

Understand more, experience less?!

Just kidding!

So much for patronizing Bull.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Oct 2011 07:58

Manny,
do you think before posting? do us all a favor: don't post such BS. it does nothing but kill our brain cells.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Oct 2011 11:32

Manny wrote:Hindus have a lot to learn from Muslims when it comes to defending their faith. You won't see evangelicals in the midst of Muslims in India. They target only Hindus. The soft target.

This is something I admire the Muslims community in the world. If it was not for Muslims defending against the wrath of the predatory nature of the onward soldiers of evangelicals, even Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism would not have survived in this world.

In a way, Hindus owe Muslim for not allowing the Goliath to decimate the world into a single religious entity.

You don't see Muslims running around neighborhood to neighborhood targeting Hinduism to be decimated... do you?

IMO, Hinduism survived because of the middle east. The middle east was the citadel that kept the Goliath at bay for 2000 years.

Every Hindu owes every Muslim of the world for that.

That's an interesting and unconventional viewpoint, Manny !

Two parameters would be key to any thinking on these lines-

1. Which one of Islamism / Christism is the bigger scourge (from POV of liberalism and humanism)?
2. Which one of the two is Indic society better equipped to face up to?

Some of the reactions to your post seem to spring from a difference in perceptions on these points.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 22 Oct 2011 20:21

Arjun wrote: That's an interesting and unconventional viewpoint, Manny !

Two parameters would be key to any thinking on these lines-

1. Which one of Islamism / Christism is the bigger scourge (from POV of liberalism and humanism)?
2. Which one of the two is Indic society better equipped to face up to?

Some of the reactions to your post seem to spring from a difference in perceptions on these points.

1. That would be Islam. relatively speaking. But, Islam tried and has reached its maximum conversion point in India. So its not a major threat anymore. The bleeding of Indic culture has stopped due to Islam, so to speak . (Islam is Different from Pakistan. Lets not mix these two). Islam does not send missionaries and monies and conspire with governments, use NGOs, bribes and defraud to convert Hindus to Islam.

2. That would be Islam. Indians are better equipped to face Islam (forget Pakistan for this conversation). But not evangelicals. Evangelicals would beat the Indic culture much more easily and eradicating it than Islam could. So Evangelical christianity is a much much bigger threat to India. Its far more real and immediate.

But due to Pakistan, there is unnecessary and unjustified anti Islam sentiments in India. Apparently many peoples brain cells hurt when they think, so they simply don't.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2011 20:52

Manny you have thought this thru. Its also my thoughts. This is because the imperialism in Islam died out with the four Caliphs. After them they were all rulers. Thats the reason for the flowering of culture in Baghdad.

OTH the imperialism in Christianity is retained via Rome, Western Europe, Britian and now America.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 22 Oct 2011 21:07

Whenever Persia falls to its western invaders there will be danger to India...Islam and Christianity are also part of this dynamic....

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Oct 2011 22:04

Manny wrote:Hindus have a lot to learn from Muslims when it comes to defending their faith. You won't see evangelicals in the midst of Muslims in India. They target only Hindus. The soft target.

This is something I admire the Muslims community in the world. If it was not for Muslims defending against the wrath of the predatory nature of the onward soldiers of evangelicals, even Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism would not have survived in this world.

In a way, Hindus owe Muslim for not allowing the Goliath to decimate the world into a single religious entity.

You don't see Muslims running around neighborhood to neighborhood targeting Hinduism to be decimated... do you?

IMO, Hinduism survived because of the middle east. The middle east was the citadel that kept the Goliath at bay for 2000 years.

Every Hindu owes every Muslim of the world for that.

Thats a really really interesting viewpoint. Are you sure you have the history to back this up? I am assuming that you are meaning the survival of Buddhism and Sikhism in some ironic rhetorical sense - since almost all Buddhist centres and following, down from Persia through to Eastern Turkmenistan down to north-east and central India were wiped out by the Islamist hordes. Sikhism grew up fighting and resisting Islam - so in your ironic sense you are actually saying that basically christianity was the bigger enemy which was prevented from expanding into India by Islam?!!!!

Christianity had already stopped expanding beyond its hotbed in the eastern Mediterranean almost a century before the birth of Muhammad. The prevention of eastwards expansion of Christianity if at all, should be credited to the Parthians. Not to Muslims. They had no role. Not even in the Crusades as having somehow protected Hindus.

Please do follow up the details of the dynamic between Christianity [including the ME Nestorians] vis-a-vis Parthians, and the politics of the levant in between the various Christian sects [Nestorians/Coptics/Iconoclast-iconodules], Arab Christianity and Judaism in the period between 400-700. Christianity was already a spent force in the Levant/eastern Med/North Africa by the time of Muhammad's birth. It was only preserved by the Greeks in the east but then again on the European point looking towards Bosphorus.

In India, the Christian missionaries were permitted to preach and do business by Islamic rulers - mostly in connection with and as part of trade missions too. Moreover trade and preaching went hand in hand for both Islamics and Christians. All thsi ceding territories and land to build churches were as much indulged in by muslim rulers as non-Muslim ones (although more from the south - perhaps also becuase more land ownership was in Hindu hands in the south compared to the north). Who really prevented the Christian missionaries?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Oct 2011 22:17

To what degree are EJs different than Suffies?
Inme apna koi nahi, dono hai yeh reet Parai
Local language me kehte hai
Chor Chor masuere Bhai .
Indian experience is that of one killed to the heart content and other looted to the heart content and victimised India. Present real rulers are mix of both and doing exactly same. We aint out of woods yet.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 22 Oct 2011 23:19

Quite interesting and very sobering that highlights as to how far still hindus have to go to own up hinduism. The theme seems to be: hinduism survives/survived either due to benevolence or chance or delibrate helping by non-hindus. Looks like everybody owns up to hindusim except hindus. That is very very pessimistic view of hinduism and about hindus, which may or may not be true.

Only time will tell. But a narrative that sees hinduisms' strengths due to benevolence/screw up of non-hindus, would probably enforce a self-fulfilling prophesy of being a village idiot. To be sure, that's why there is still Aurangzeb Marg, hindu rate of growth etc., in India. while people have lot of takleef to call Rama Sethu, Karnavati, bhagyanagar, indraprastha or prayag.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 22 Oct 2011 23:32

Prem wrote:To what degree are EJs different than Suffies?
Inme apna koi nahi, dono hai yeh reet Parai
Local language me kehte hai
Chor Chor masuere Bhai .
Indian experience is that of one killed to the heart content and other looted to the heart content and victimised India. Present real rulers are mix of both and doing exactly same. We aint out of woods yet.

Barbarians from the land and barbarians from the sea - what are the similarities and what are the differences?

Similarities - Barbarity, blood thirst, warmongering, looking down on natives & culture, etc.

Difference - invasion from land v/s invasion from sea; way of clothing, language, not to miss different religion, difference in timing per available land/sea route, genocide v/s artificial famines, etc.

To say that one was better is incorrect. It is accurate to say which one was not as bad w.r.t. certain context. Otherwise the effect on native culture is the same.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Oct 2011 08:59

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 446867.cms
Mayawati bursts Narendra Modi's economic growth myth
( East rising again, UP now follows Bihar revival)

NEW DELHI: Gujarat is the flag-bearer of economic growth in recent years and Uttar Pradesh a laggard turns out to be a myth. Both the states have more or less matched the national average over the last five years.Among the six poll-bound states -Punjab, Uttarakhand, Manipur, Goa, UP and Gujarat - Uttarakhand and Punjab top the growth charts. Uttarakhand has seen its net state domestic product (NSPD) grow by 103% and Punjab has witnessed 86% growth as compared to Gujarat (79%), Goa (77%), UP (76%) and Manipur (51%). The Indian economy grew by 77% during this period.UP's NSDP at current prices was pegged at Rs 2, 56, 000 crore in 2005-06. At the end of 2009-10, it had reached Rs 4, 53, 000 crore. The Mayawati-ruled state has performed on a par with Narendra Modi's Gujarat, which saw its economy expand from Rs 2 lakh crore in 2005-06 to Rs 3.70 lakh crore last year.
The BSP supremo has been able to keep pace with showpiece UPA-ruled states like Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh as well. The economic expansion in Maharashtra was 78% during this period, while Andhra Pradesh accounted for 79%.Among the bigger states, the top three were all ruled by the Opposition. Bihar clocked 110%, Chhattisgarh (104%) and Left Front-ruled West Bengal matched Uttarakhand's 103%. Gujarat was ranked 12th among the the bigger states, taking sheen off Modi's tall claims.UP's performance in raising the per capita income was also commendable. The per capita income of the state rose 64% in the five years till last year as against Gujarat (69%), Maharashtra (78%) and Andhra Pradesh (79%).he growth in per capita income of BJP-ruled Uttarakhand has been the highest among poll-bound states at 91%, followed by Punjab (73%) and Manipur (40%). Instability in Uttarakhand and change of leadership made little dent in its economic expansion.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Oct 2011 16:35

The state growths have to be checked against invetsments patterns over time. For the last 3-4 decades, need to have details of Plan and non-Plan allocations. Punjab, UP have had substantial investments from the rashtryia side long term - compared to other states. Not to detract from their perfrormances - but maybe Bihar's growth has an extra sheen given the background long term patterns of inputs.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 23 Oct 2011 17:13

Islam doesn't send missionaries etc these days because breeding is much easier and they have been doing it since the 1800's. Besides with the current image of Islam, it is much harder to get converts but they do try to wipe out Hindu influences among Muslims in the subcontinent through the so called Tabligh movement.

In early 1800's various travelers recorded Muslims as being around 15% of Akhand Bharat, by 1947 this increased to 23% (which emboldened them to demand Partition and get it) and now to over 35%. In Kerala they went from 17% or so in 1961 to 23% now while both Hindus and Xtians are declining.

As they breed and become majority in a given area, they soon take over and non Muslims become dhimmis.

The demographic takeover of Lebanon is a good example.

Womb warfare is a great tactic in this age of universal democracy and anyone who thinks Islam isn't a threat has no clue of what's happening on the ground through out Assam-WB border districts.

And in a popular DVD selling locally, a foreign sheik exhorts Muslims to take control of Australia by out-breeding non-believers.

British-based Sheik Abdul Raheem Green forbade Muslims from having fewer than four children so Australia would become an Islamic state.

On one he tells his audience to Islamise Australia through a Muslim baby boom.

“The birth rate in the Western countries is going down. People are more interested in their careers . . . they don’t want to have babies,” Sheik Green says in one DVD.

“So don’t you think, Muslim brothers and sisters, we’ve got a bit of an opportunity here? They’re not having babies any more. So what if, instead, we have the babies?

“In Canada one in three or one in four children being born is a Muslim. What does that do to the demographic shift of a Muslim population in 20 years’ time?

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/17684/m ... ss-aussies

By the way Xtian expansion was already blocked between 400-700 CE by the Persians who also kicked out the Syrian Xtians who landed as refugees in Kerala suspecting them of being disloyal (how right they were, syrian xtians helped Portuguese later and urged them to destroy the Hindu kings who sheltered them) to them and loyal to xtianized Rome. They also were protecting the remaining Greek pagans from the Xtians.

So in reality the so called “Islamic Science” was a venture of the pagan Neo-Platonists fleeing the terror of Isaism, and many of the early “Islamic intellectuals” like T ibn Kurra were by their own admission Hellenistic pagans. In 529 AD the Hellenistic philosophers fleeing persecution by the Isaistic ruler Justinian fled to the Iranian king Khusrau Anushirwan, who granted them a safe haven. After he defeated the Christians, he imposed a clause in the peace treaty with Justinian that he must allow the religious freedom of the pagans in the Byzantine empire. Harran as a border town received considerable protection from the Iranian rulers and the Hellenistic pagans could develop their religion and science. While Islam destroyed the Iranian empire, it failed to impose itself on the pagans of Harran. It was from here that they spread out and seeded the Arabic world with their highly developed science and philosophy...

http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/20 ... c-science/

So thanking Muslims for blocking Xtians is laughable because if Islam never arose the Persians would have continued doing that.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 23 Oct 2011 19:39

Prem wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 446867.cms
Mayawati bursts Narendra Modi's economic growth myth
( East rising again, UP now follows Bihar revival)

whole thing is a lifafa article...if you compare the yearly growth rates of states you ll no what I mean... The article does not include data from fiscal 10-11 in which Guj grew by 16% real growth rate.. (easily nominal of 30 %) ..and the fact the in this fiscal Guj has not slowed down...

It choses to compare Guj with smaller state like Punjab or uttarakhsnd... any way punjab , uttarakhand , guj and bihar the best performers are NDA ruled which the article avoids mentioning....UP has a per capita income of $650 (current prices) compared to 1600 national average and 2000 of Gujarat or Punjab...

Guj also has the very less public debt (much lesser than national average) and centre allots much less funds to it than the BIMARU states or the EAGS states...

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 24 Oct 2011 02:28

the present Congress government is in no way interested in protecting Indian interests. Particularly in the case of Kashmiri Pandits they have allowed Kashmiri Muslims to kill and drive them out of Kashmir and Congress is in ally with those who drive them out. Second in Megalaya and in North Eastern states they allow Bengladeshis to come into this country and it is a real threat in two ways one is Bodos are driven out Bangladesh and thus coming in large numbers and thus in afew years forof time Megalaya Kasi will become minority and Bodos and Bangladeshis will demand for a state to connect it to Bangladesh and will become a majority out there. Government of India does not take any of these states seriously even in the case of Arunachel pradesh where half the state is ruled by Chinese now where Indian government even does not bother to question them or threaten them to send them out. Also in POK there Chinese are there and Indian government is not bothered, though this is undeclared aggression and war against India. the minister in the government says there is no threat from China now. Also in South Tamils are litterally humiliated by every move by the Congress govt in making frienship with Lanka particularly even when lanka killed TN fishermen, it was fishermen who was blamed by our foreign minister. possibly his own hatred played much in his foreign policy as well. Even when lanka had a free killing of tamils it was this government who went around and promoted vote in Un in favour of Lankan govt. At present too in spite of all these India still wants to be friendly at the cost of feelings of Tamils in TN who are supposed to be Indians and whose Interests should be given priority at all costs. This is not only the case even in border states many people's lives are just sacrifised for friendship with neighbours. I wish to see a govt which takes Indian interests seriously and gives Indian interests first priority. I have also realised the cause of all these in Congress Government is money and bribe. Neighbour countries and their folks how to bribe our ministers and thus change their policies to work against their own people. there are few ministers in Congress who will sell anything for money including their own. until we get rid of these people India can never be independent. If the next government exposes these things i wanted to see maximum punishment to be given to all these respected congress leaders today.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2011 05:34

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15420088
India: Darjeeling bridge collapse kills 32

More than 150 villagers were standing on the bridge for talks by local separatist leaders on Saturday night when it collapsed.Officials say the victims fell at least 70ft (21m) into the fast-flowing Rangeet Khola river.The army, fire brigade and police helped residents in the rescue effort.Up to 60 people were rescued on Saturday night, but the search on Sunday was mainly focused on areas down river, reports say.
Government help
People had gathered in the village of Bijonbari, 30km (20miles) from Darjeeling, to listen to speeches by leaders of the Gorkha Janmukti Morcha (GJM) party.The GJM is fighting for a separate state for the tea-producing Darjeeling hills."A cultural programme was being held on one side of the bridge, while a meeting was being held on the other," GJM General Secretary Roshan Giri said.Too many people were standing on it when it collapsed and they fell into the river below."Darjeeling District Magistrate Soumitra Mohan said on Sunday that the death toll had reached 32, with 132 wounded.At least six children are among the casualties.West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee said her government would do "everything it can" to help the victims and their families.The bridge was reportedly built in 1942, and is thought to have been weakened by a magnitude 6.9 earthquake that shook north-eastern India, Nepal and Tibet in September.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2011 05:40

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111023.htm
What's Bhutan's newly-wed royal couple up to in India

Bhutan King Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck and Queen Jetsun Pema Wangchuck arrived in New Delhi on a nine-day state visit, their first foreign trip after their marriage.
The couple were received at the Indira Gandhi airport here. During his visit, the king will hold bilateral talks with the country's leadership. He will meet President Pratibha Patil, who will host a banquet in his honour.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Oct 2011 11:58

Cong to focus on Muslim areas ahead of UP polls

Just how blatant are they going to get.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Oct 2011 06:03

UPA govt begins spadework for Muslim quota

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Oct 2011 06:52

Now India Has An ATM Machine That Dispenses Diamonds And Gold http://www.businessinsider.com/india-go ... z1bkrL7e1W

If you thought that gold bar-dispensing ATM we told you about last year was cool, wait until you hear about the ATM machine that was installed this weekend in Mumbai. The new ATM dispenses everything from gold and silver bars and coins to religious pendants and diamond studded jewelry, according to the Gitanjali Group, the Indian diamond manufacturer that installed the machine (via the Rapaport Report).According to the company, the machine will be "ideally suited for last minute purchases on auspicious occasions and for gifting, providing instant gratification to the purchaser."Items dispensed from the machine will cost anywhere from $20 to $650, according to the Rapaport Report.The company said it hopes to install additional gold-and-diamond ATMs in India's airports, malls and temples

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Oct 2011 08:03

As per Subbu Swamy Rajmart is back in the US

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Oct 2011 08:09

x-post by Airavat:

Thus by the basic conception of the Muslim state all non-Muslims are its enemies and it is the interest of the state to curb their growth in number and power. The ideal aim was to exterminate them totally, as Hindus, Zoroastrians and Christian nationals have been liquidated (sometimes totally, sometimes leaving a negligible remnant behind) in Afghanistan, Persia and the Near East. The last remnants of the descendants of Alexander's soldiers, settled in, northeastern Afghanistan, were ground down to accept Islam and their provinces name changed from Kafiristan to Nuristan (province luminious with Islam) in our own lifetime.

Whatever tended to strengthen the Hindus would ipso facts constitute a menace to Islamic predominance. The same was seen in the late lamented British Indian Empire, when a Bengali who learnt military science in Mexico or France immediately became a political suspect and was ever afterwards shadowed by the CID as a potential traitor. But the British, while curbing the martial spirit of our educated classes, did not try to crush the Hindu mind at its source: they did not forbid the study of Hindu philosophy and the practice of the Hindu religion, rather encouraged them and opened the gates of the Temple of Western Science to us. Not so, the orthodox Muslim rulers of India.

From a 1950 article by Jadunath Sarkar

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Oct 2011 01:53

A $13 Billion Fast Food Revolution Is Taking Over India
http://www.businessinsider.com/a-13-bil ... ia-2011-10

NEW DELHI, India — At the DLF Place mall in the upscale South Delhi neighborhood of Saket, shoppers and employees sit more or less side-by-side in a new “desi” food court, digging into traditional Indian dishes ranging from biryani to dosas to seekh kebabs.There's something for everybody — at many tables three generations are sitting down together. But that's not the reason these traditional upstarts have succeeded in storming what was once the bastion of western brands like McDonald's and Pizza Hut.Some of the city's most famous restaurants are represented here — some of them a century old — transformed by smart uniforms, cheery signage and shining show kitchens to look every bit as clean, efficient and modern as their multinational competitors. Welcome to the future of Indian fast food.According to Euromonitor and market-research firm RNCOS, India's $13 billion fast-food market is already growing 25-30 percent a year, and global players like Domino's, McDonald's and Yum Brands (KFC and Pizza Hut) are pushing into second- and third-tier cities.
Hardcastle Restaurants, development licensee for McDonald's in India, is planning a massive expansion, doubling its India stores over the next three years with an investment of $100 million. Meanwhile, Yum Brands plans to open 1,000 outlets — half of them KFC restaurants — on its way to $1 billion in revenue from India over the next four years.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 26 Oct 2011 02:07

Kraft Food is exporting $4B of cheese to India to support these MNC - QSR industry

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 26 Oct 2011 06:10

Acharya wrote:Kraft Food is exporting $4B of cheese to India to support these MNC - QSR industry

As far as I know, US dairy products cannot be imported into India unless they can certify that the cows haven't been fed other cows remains in their food, and that the cheese doesn't contain rennet.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 26 Oct 2011 06:27

All the MNC are doing it after approval.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Oct 2011 09:42

As it scoots from Af-Pak, US ‘bargain’ may sell India short

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Oct 2011 19:35

Some more notes on "competitive Authoritarianism". Need to study further to model this.

WHAT IS COMPETITIVE AUTHORITARIANISM?

Competitive authoritarian regimes are civilian regimes in which formal democratic institutions exist and are widely viewed as the primary means of gaining power, but in which incumbents' abuse of the state places them at a significant advantage vis-a-vis their opponents. Such regimes are competitive in that opposition parties use democratic institutions to contest seriously for power, but they are not democratic because the playing field is heavily skewed in favor of incumbents. Copetition is thus real but unfair.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/levitsky/fil ... ctions.pdf

Four Arenas of Democratic Contestation
Due to the persistence of meaningful democratic institutions in competitive authoritarian regimes, arenas of contestation exist through which opposition forces may periodically challenge, weaken, and occasionally even defeat autocratic incumbents. Four such arenas are of particular importance: 1) the electoral arena; 2) the legislature; 3) the judiciary; and 4) the media.

1) The electoral arena. The first and most important arena of contestation is the electoral arena. In authoritarian regimes, elections either do not exist or are not seriously contested. Electoral competition is eliminated either de jure, as in Cuba and China, or de facto, as in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. In the latter, opposition parties are routinely banned or disqualified from electoral competition, and opposition leaders are often jailed. In addition, independent or outside observers are prevented from verifying results via parallel vote counts, which creates widespread opportunities for vote stealing. As a result, opposition forces do not present a serious electoral threat to incumbents, and elections are, for all intents and purposes, noncompetitive. Thus Kazakhstani president
Nursultan Nazarbayev was reelected in 1999 with 80 percent of the vote, and in Uzbekistan, President Islam Karimov was reelected in 2000 with 92 percent of the vote. (As a rule of thumb, regimes in which presidents are reelected with more than 70 percent of the vote can generally be considered noncompetitive.) In such cases, the death or violent overthrow of the president is often viewed as a more likely means of succession than his electoral defeat.

In competitive authoritarian regimes, by contrast, elections are often bitterly fought. Although the electoral process may be characterized by large-scale abuses of state power, biased media coverage, (often violent) harassment of opposition candidates and activists, 10 and an overall lack of transparency, elections are regularly held, competitive (in that major opposition parties and candidates usually participate), and generally free of massive fraud. In many cases, the presence of international observers or the existence of parallel vote-counting procedures limits the capacity of incumbents to engage in large-scale fraud. As a result, elections may generate considerable uncertainty, and autocratic incumbents must therefore take them seriously. For example, Russian president Boris Yeltsin in 1996 and Ukrainian president Leonid Kuchma in 1999 faced strong electoral challenges from former communist parties. Despite
concerted efforts to use blackmail and other techniques to secure votes,11 Kuchma won only 35 percent of the vote in the first round of the 1999 presidential elections and 56 percent in the second round. In Kenya, longtime autocrat Daniel arap Moi won reelection with bare pluralities in 1992 and 1997, and in Zimbabwe, the opposition Movement for Democratic Change nearly won the 2000 parliamentary elections. In several cases, opposition forces have managed to defeat autocratic incumbents or their hand-picked candidates, as occurred in Nicaragua in 1990, Zambia in 1991, Malawi and Ukraine in 1994, Albania
in 1997, and Ghana in 2000.

Although incumbents may manipulate election results, this often costs them dearly and can even bring them down. In Peru, for example, Fujimori was able to gain reelection in 2000 but was forced to resign amid scandal months later. Similarly, efforts by Miloševiæ to falsify Serbian election results in 2000 led to a regime crisis and the president’s removal. Regime crises resulting from electoral fraud also occurred in Mexico in 1988 and Armenia in 1996.

2) The legislative arena. A second arena of contestation is the legislature. In most full-scale authoritarian regimes, legislatures either do not exist or are so thoroughly controlled by the ruling party that conflict between the legislature and the executive branch is virtually unthinkable. In competitive authoritarian regimes, legislatures tend to be relatively weak, but they occasionally become focal points of opposition activity. This is particularly likely in cases in which incumbents lack strong majority parties. In both Ukraine and Russia in the 1990s, for example, presidents were faced with recalcitrant parliaments dominated
by former communist and other left-wing parties. The Ukrainian parliament repeatedly blocked or watered down economic reform legislation proposed by President Kuchma, and in 2000–2001, despite Kuchma’s threats to take “appropriate” measures if it did not cooperate, parliament blocked the president’s effort to call a referendum aimed at reducing the powers of the legislature. Although incumbents may attempt to circumvent or even shut down the legislature (as in Peru in 1992 and Russia in 1993), such actions tend to be costly, particularly in the international arena. Thus both Fujimori and Yeltsin held new legislative
elections within three years of their “self-coups,” and Yeltsin continued to face opposition from the post-1993-coup parliament. Even where incumbent executives enjoy large legislative majorities, opposition forces may use the legislature as a place for meeting and organizing and (to the extent that an independent media exists) as a public platform from which to denounce the regime. In Peru, despite the fact that opposition parties exerted little influence over the legislative process between 1995 and 2000, anti-Fujimori legislators used congress (and media coverage of it) as a place to air their views. In Ukraine in November 2000, opposition deputy Aleksandr Moroz used parliament to accuse the president of murder and to distribute damaging tapes of the president to the press.

3) The judicial arena. A third arena of potential contestation is the judiciary. Governments in competitive authoritarian regimes routinely attempt to subordinate the judiciary, often via impeachment, or, more subtly, through bribery, extortion, and other mechanisms of co-optation. In Peru, for example, scores of judges—including several Supreme Court justices—were entwined in the web of patronage, corruption, and blackmail constructed by Fujimori’s intelligence chief, Vladimiro Montesinos. In Russia, when the Constitutional Court declared Yeltsin’s 1993 decree disbanding parliament to be unconstitutional, Yeltsin cut off the Court’s phone lines and took away its guards. In some cases, governments resort to threats and violence. In Zimbabwe, after the Supreme
Court ruled that occupations of white-owned farmland—part of the Mugabe government’s land-redistribution policy—were illegal, independent justices received a wave of violent threats from pro-government “war veterans.” Four justices, including Chief Justice Anthony Gubbay, opted for early retirement in 2001 and were replaced by justices with closer ties to the government.

Yet the combination of formal judicial independence and incomplete control by the executive can give maverick judges an opening. In Ukraine, for example, the Constitutional Court stipulated that President Kuchma’s referendum to reduce the powers of the legislature was not binding. In Slovakia, the Constitutional Court prevented Vladimír Meèiar’s government from denying the opposition seats in parliament in 1994, and in Serbia, the courts legitimized local opposition electoral victories in 1996. Courts have also protected media and opposition figures from state persecution. In Croatia, the courts acquitted an opposition
weekly that had been charged with falsely accusing President Tudjman of being a devotee of Spain’s Francisco Franco. Similarly, in Malaysia in 2001, a High Court judge released two dissidents who had been jailed under the regime’s Internal Security Act and publicly questioned the need for such a draconian law.12

Although competitive authoritarian governments may subsequently punish judges who rule against them, such acts against formally independent judiciaries may generate important costs in terms of domestic and international legitimacy. In Peru, for example, the pro-Fujimori congress sacked three members of the Constitutional Tribunal in 1997 after they attempted to block Fujimori’s constitutionally dubious bid for a third presidential term. The move generated sharp criticism both domestically and abroad, however, and the case remained a thorn in the regime’s side for the rest of the decade.

4) The media. Finally, the media are often a central point of contention in competitive authoritarian regimes. In most full-blown autocracies, the media are entirely state-owned, heavily censored, or systematically repressed. Leading television and radio stations are controlled by the government (or its close allies), and major independent newspapers and magazines are either prohibited by law (as in Cuba) or de facto eliminated (as in Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan). Journalists who provoke the ire of the government risk arrest, deportation, and even assassination. In competitive authoritarian regimes, by contrast, independent media outlets are not only legal but often quite influential, and journalists— though frequently threatened and periodically attacked—often
emerge as important opposition figures. In Peru, for example, independent newspapers such as La República and El Comercio and weekly magazines such as Sí and Caretas operated freely throughout the 1990s. In Ukraine, newspapers such as Zerkalo nedeli, Den, and, more recently, Vicherni visti functioned as important sources of independent views on the Kuchma government.

Independent media outlets often play a critical watchdog role by investigating and exposing government malfeasance. The Peruvian media uncovered a range of government abuses, including the 1992 massacre of students at La Cantuta University and the forgery of the signatures needed for Fujimori’s party to qualify for the 2000 elections. In Russia, Vladimir Gusinsky’s Independent TV was an important source of criticism of the Yeltsin government, particularly with respect to its actions in Chechnya. In Zimbabwe, the Daily News played an important role in exposing the abuses of the Mugabe government. Media outlets may also serve as mouthpieces for opposition forces. In Serbia, the Belgrade radio station B-92 served as a key center of opposition to Miloševiæ in the
second half of the 1990s. Newspapers played an important role in supporting opposition forces in Panama and Nicaragua in the late 1980s. Executives in competitive authoritarian regimes often actively seek to suppress the independent media, using more subtle mechanisms of repression than their counterparts in authoritarian regimes. These methods often include bribery, the selective allocation of state advertising, the manipulation of debts and taxes owed by media outlets, the fomentation of conflicts among stockholders, and restrictive press laws that facilitate the prosecution of independent and opposition journalists. In
Russia, the government took advantage of Independent TV’s debts to the main gas company, Gazprom, to engineer a takeover by government- friendly forces. In Peru, the Fujimori government gained de facto control over all of the country’s privately owned television stations through a combination of bribery and legal shenanigans, such as the invalidation of Channel 2 owner Baruch Ivcher’s citizenship. Governments also make extensive use of libel laws to harass or persecute
independent newspapers “legally.” In Ghana, for example, the Jerry Rawlings government used colonial-era libel statutes to imprison several newspaper editors and columnists in the 1990s, and in Croatia, the Open Society Institute reported in 1997 that major independent newspapers had been hit by more than 230 libel suits. Similarly, Armenia’s government used libel suits to quiet press criticism after the country’s controversial 1996 elections.

Yet efforts to repress the media may be costly to incumbents in competitive authoritarian regimes. For example, when in 1996 the Tudjman government in Croatia tried to revoke the license of Radio 101, a popular independent station in the capital, the massive protests that broke out both galvanized the opposition and temporarily split the ruling party. In Ukraine in 2000, charges that President Kuchma had sought the killing of an opposition journalist led to large domestic protests and partial isolation from the West. In Peru, the persecution and exiling of Ivcher provoked substantial protest at home and became a focal point of criticism
abroad.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Oct 2011 19:46

So how does all this apply to India and atleast a few states like AP, Maha,(INC) TN, UP,(non INC) Gujarat and Karnataka(BJP)?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Oct 2011 00:20

X Posting

shyamd wrote:Charity begins at home with positivism from PMO

Prabhu Chawla
Last Updated : 23 Oct 2011 08:42:14 AM IST

Even a great leader of high personal integrity who doesn’t practice what he preaches is bound to carry very little conviction and credibility with the people. On Saturday, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh pleaded with 25-odd chief ministers to “guard against the mood of negativism that seems to have gripped the country”. For most of them, the sermon was salt on wounds inflicted by the Centre. Three of them took the UPA to task for its negative attitude towards their states and imposing “fascist legislation”. Manmohan queered the pitch. While UPA ministers and Congress chief ministers ignored his remarks, the rest were assertive in placing the blame on the UPA’s doorstep for being confrontationist and for targeting non-Congress governments and leaders.

Negativism begets negativism. For the past seven years, the UPA hasn’t built a consensus on any national issue. It has conceived and planned schemes and policies that have shaken the very foundation of Indian democracy’s federal character. Both fiscal and social sector policies involving MGNREGA, national highways, Value Added Tax, environment and forest clearances, higher education expansion, power generation projects, etc have been designed in such a way that state governments are finding it difficult to sustain their growth momentum. If a power project is cleared by a state, the coal ministry finds it extremely difficult to allocate coal. If a new airport is proposed, the Environment Ministry makes life miserable for the promoters with inane objections. Furthermore, most legislations adopted by state governments are held up for years either by governors or at the Centre. Some governors, in states like Gujarat, Orissa and Karnataka, have been needling their state governments on one pretext or the other, while encouraging dissidence. At the Centre, the UPA has been at war with the Opposition. Using technical objections, its members didn’t allow the Public Accounts Committee to finish its reports, a tactic also used by the Congress in Goa.

Approval for over a dozen laws, duly passed by the Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Bihar Assemblies is pending with either the governor or the President. Instead of offering a sympathetic ear, the Centre hasn’t responded to numerous requests from various chief ministers for special packages. For example, even special resolutions passed by Orissa and Bihar, seeking special assistance, haven’t been properly considered. On the other hand, Manmohan and his ministers don’t take a minute to announce significant financial assistance to their regional allies. It is due to the Central leadership’s unresponsive attitude that most chief ministers have stopped visiting Delhi. Instead, they operate through their civil servants. Manmohan, who rarely visits the states, has hardly made any extra gesture to fly to any of the non-Congress ruled states to help resolve their problems.

If most states are peeved with the Centre for its negative vibes, so are the leaders of civil society and constitutional bodies. Recently, Comptroller and Auditor General of India Vinod Rai was subjected to a vicious smear campaign for his bold reports on the 2G scam and other financial irregularities. This immediately prompted attempts to dig for dirt in his past record. Expecting a strong reaction, it was left to Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee to defend Rai. Most despicable is the vicious campaign against civil society leaders, from Baba Ramdev to Kiran Bedi. Various agencies were unleashed to snoop out every hole in their closets for hidden wealth and secret documents. It was the worst kind of political butchery of the civil society movement; instead of reading the message, the Government and its megaphones shot the messengers. But it failed miserably. If the corporate sector is unable to perform today, it is not due to negative feelings against the Government. Not one of them is sure of getting clearances on time. For one Union minister who helps the industry, there are at least two who are out to torpedo their colleagues. Legislation on both sports and manufacturing policy fell through because of the static of negativity within the Prime Minister’s office.

If Manmohan is determined to create a positive environment for better governance and healthy democracy, he and his colleagues have to be more tolerant and less abrasive. The might of the state may maim and incapacitate a few individuals, but this generates such a negative force that can lead to much more catastrophic results. Let the Prime Minister begin the charity of positivity from his own home. He may, then, find many others walking the extra mile.

[email protected]

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Oct 2011 01:27

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-ama ... ia-2011-10
The photo is an overlay of shots highlighting India's burgeoning population over several years. The white lights were the only illumination visible before 1992. The blue lights appeared in 1992. The green lights in 1998. And the red lights appeared in 2003.Current speculation suggests the lights are a result of the Hindu celebration Diwali, or the celebration of lights, held from mid-October to mid-November, but NASA was unable to confirm what time of year the shots were taken.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 27 Oct 2011 01:40

Reading Prabhu Chawla's article, states should band together along with J&K to push forward an Azadi i.e. devolution agenda.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Oct 2011 01:44

Wrong lesson. The right lesson is to transform the competetive authoritarianism to genuine democracy.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Oct 2011 01:56

vera_k wrote:Reading Prabhu Chawla's article, states should band together along with J&K to push forward an Azadi i.e. devolution agenda.

He does not use one word which describes the problem. - Without nationalism the vision to build a strong state will be missing

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 27 Oct 2011 01:59

ramana wrote:Wrong lesson. The right lesson is to transform the competetive authoritarianism to genuine democracy.

Isn't that transformation the same as a devolution agenda? In that a central power center has to be willing to accept a reduction in the rights it holds, so that alternative power centers can develop.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Oct 2011 02:02

vera_k wrote:
ramana wrote:Wrong lesson. The right lesson is to transform the competetive authoritarianism to genuine democracy.
Isn't that transformation the same as a devolution agenda? In that a central power center has to be willing to accept a reduction in the rights it holds, so that alternative power centers can develop.

That is against the one nation state.
They may be working towards that if the article is right. They may want to disband the nation if the party cannot survive.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 27 Oct 2011 02:02

Acharya wrote:He does not use one word which describes the problem. - Without nationalism the vision to build a strong state will be missing

Quite right. If the consensus around national identity is missing, it would be preferable to crush any opposition howsoever. That even this much is not happening says there is a confused state of affairs, or more charitably that a transitionary process is playing out.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Oct 2011 02:04

vera_k wrote:

Quite right. If the consensus around national identity is missing, it would be preferable to crush any opposition howsoever. That even this much is not happening says there is a confused state of affairs, or more charitably that a transitionary process is playing out.

Who has said that 'consensus around national identity is missing'. The media and the state is used to suppress the national identity. This may be deliberate and is part of long social engineering

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 27 Oct 2011 08:26

I hope that patriotic media outlets use the term "competitive authoritarianism" a little more often... Prabhu Chawla's article just stops short of labelling it that...

NAC wants MNREGA to spread over to urban area too.. If that happens India becomes a quasi communist state once again , just like pre 91...

I have a feeling that telengana related economic blockade was deliberately engineered...

So are the separatists in Cashmere a creation of the congi's...

So India is a quasi-communist competitively authoritarian regime in the UPA reign....