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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 19 May 2012 20:26
by nawabs
Wonder what’s bothering Washington (Post)?
Are purchases of gold by Indian consumers an international problem? Washington (Post) teams thinks so.

http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2012/05/18 ... gton-post/
Washington (Post) thinks it is in the same league as the Greek economy; elections in Egypt or the breakdown of the State in Pakistan’s frontier areas.

Let’s understand this ‘issue’ better!
In India, the world’s biggest annual bullion importer, gold jewelry plays a central role in weddings and festivals. India imported 933 metric tons of gold for private consumers last year, a 35 percent rise over five years and just under a quarter of global demand, according to the World Gold Council.

Indian households’ disposable incomes grew by 13 percent during the 2010-11 financial year, but the amount in their bank accounts rose by only 3 percent, according to official data.

High inflation often renders the idea of financial savings unappealing, and many people in rural areas lack access to banks.

India is struggling to balance its books partly because its citizens keep buying gold. The country’s current account, the difference between the value of its imports and exports of goods, services and financial-transfer payments, is running at a deficit of about 4 percent, largely because of high import bills for oil and gold — India bought 969 metric tons of bullion last year at an overall cost of $48 billion.

The lack of money in Indian bank accounts forces the government and private companies to borrow abroad, pushing the country further into the red.“You’re not looking at something sustainable. The balance of payments becomes very skewed,”

The International Monetary Fund predicts that India’s economy will grow by 6.9 percent this year, a significant drop from the double-digit rates touched in recent years.

India’s government has been trying to exert some control this spring. (via India struggles to balance its books as citizens lust for gold – The Washington Post).
How India’s gold buying affects the world

Has crime rate in India gone up in India to fund gold consumption.

Not true.

India has low crime rates; lowest imprisonment ratios, a small police force – despite a huge number of unlicensed firearms, with really poor people.

Is the Indian Government likely to renege on its debt obligation? India has not in its history defaulted on sovereign debt.

Have Indian consumers borrowed large amounts and likely to default on their obligations to international lenders? Indians consumer debt is contracted locally – and hence Washington (Post) has no cause for worry.

Are Indians causing international flare-ups to fulfill their ‘lust for gold’? Have Indians annihilating people?

Like the British did with Australian aborigines? Or the Spanish and European migrants did to Native Americans in North and South America? Or committed gross human rights violations like the Belgian king in Congo? Have Indians enslaved millions or invaded other countries – like Europe did in the Scramble for Africa?

Answer – None of the above.

After paying international prices, can there be covetousness, cupidity, deadly sin, mortal sin? The Japanese save money in pension funds; Americans buy gilt-bonds and shares, British savers buy shares and put money in insurance and mutual funds.

Indians buy gold.

How can retail buying of gold by small people be described as lust. Most families in India have less than 100 gm of gold. Is that craving, longing, passion, greed, cupidity?Would you call Indians lustful, if they do not wish to undergo the fate of the British people?

War by other means

This portrayal of the Indian consumer as sinner smacks of aggressive intent.First demonize and then annihilate. It is not as though the Indian Government is cornering the gold market – and trying to destabilize the world currency system – ramshackle as it is.

So why this attempt to demonize the Indian consumer?

If this is causing a trade imbalance, does Washington (Post) demonize American consumers – for their oil consumption, for their garbage generation? For creating a housing bubble and credit balloon which burst – causing global misery. For running a a 100-year old trade imbalance, that has only been reversed, when the US used war materiel production to enhance economic activity.So, if crime is not the issue, default is unlikely, why are these dem fine White folks so worried about us Injuns?

On a clear day

Ahh! I get it.It must be the Washington (Post) acting in Christian spirit of being their Injun Brother’s keeper. They are trying to save us Injun’s from ourselves.

We stoo-pid, silly Injuns.

Why can’t we take advice from Washington (Post)?

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 00:18
by svinayak
nawabs wrote:
War by other means

This portrayal of the Indian consumer as sinner smacks of aggressive intent.First demonize and then annihilate. It is not as though the Indian Government is cornering the gold market – and trying to destabilize the world currency system – ramshackle as it is.

So why this attempt to demonize the Indian consumer?

If this is causing a trade imbalance, does Washington (Post) demonize American consumers – for their oil consumption, for their garbage generation? For creating a housing bubble and credit balloon which burst – causing global misery.
Social engineering of the high order using international media. They want to be financial advisrs to millions of Indian consumers.
They want to divert the money for purchase of FMCG goods of the MNCs. Also they want to reduce the gold holing so that the rupee is weakened. Large gold holding keeps the currency stable.

Just the thought of using the international media to change the habit of the largest nation in the world is preposterous. They have been conditioned to use this method since they were doing similar things for the last 30 years using the media for flattery, false images and demonization.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 00:24
by Jarita
^^^ They can keep trying

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 09:48
by Philip
Megrahi is dead.he was kept alive longer than expected by new drugs according to UK media reports,which were considered too expensive to use on their National Health patients! Now despite his death-and there are now calls for a new enquiry as many do not believe that he was guilty,convicted on dubious evidence,that another Islamist terror group did the dastardly deed:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -dies.html
New call for Lockerbie inquiry as Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi dies
British relations of Lockerbie bombing victims have called for a public inquiry after the death of the only man convicted of the atrocity.
However,notwithstanding his death,the US still demand "justice" for the bombing and have said that they will not close the case.Compare this with the manner in which the 26/11 massacre case is being pursued by the US,who we now suspect knew all along about the intended ISI planned terror outrage and allowed it to happen.Where is the US outrage about Headley,Kasab,et al,and the masterminds luxuriating in the in open in Pak? Why are there no drone strikes to "take out" these ungodlies,or an operation similar to the one that took out OBL? The US? Rank hypocrites.They have a different standard when it suits their selfish interests.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 12:30
by gunjur
Talks on Indo-US bilateral investment treaty at advanced stage
Ms Powell said her primary purpose was to ensure bilateral business ties get a big boost. In 1995, the value of US goods exports to India was just above $3 billion. Last year, it topped $21 billion and this year it is expected to touch $100 billion. In 1995, when Ms Powell left India as Minister-Counsellor for Political Affairs in Delhi, US FDI into India was negligible. Now it’s near $30 billion. Indian FDI in the US tops $3 billion.
What exactly is india buying from US this year that makes US exports nearly 5 times more than last year??

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 12:48
by Aditya_V
Gunjur wrote:Talks on Indo-US bilateral investment treaty at advanced stage
Ms Powell said her primary purpose was to ensure bilateral business ties get a big boost. In 1995, the value of US goods exports to India was just above $3 billion. Last year, it topped $21 billion and this year it is expected to touch $100 billion. In 1995, when Ms Powell left India as Minister-Counsellor for Political Affairs in Delhi, US FDI into India was negligible. Now it’s near $30 billion. Indian FDI in the US tops $3 billion.
What exactly is india buying from US this year that makes US exports nearly 5 times more than last year??
THier Il share in the Hafta made by our Politicos- I can think of stuedent fees, Defence equipment, but very little things which make 100 Billion USD, unless we have started buying Gold from Fort Knox to meet domestic demand.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 12:51
by Raja Bose
Philip wrote:Where is the US outrage about Headley,Kasab,et al,and the masterminds luxuriating in the in open in Pak? Why are there no drone strikes to "take out" these ungodlies,or an operation similar to the one that took out OBL? The US? Rank hypocrites.They have a different standard when it suits their selfish interests.
Where is the Indian outrage? All I see is our dear PM hugging groper, our Bollywood producers launching Paki actors and our chatterati doing Aman-ki-Asha. There is no different standard - The US looks after its own interests period. They don't give an eff-eff about rest of the world. The sooner we understand that, the better. We need to get rid of our "Koi kuch karta kyon nahin*" habit.

*Why doesn't someone do something? (a common Hindi movie dialogue for bystanders witnessing a crime)

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 22:31
by Prem
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/nyreg ... uilty.html
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/05/in ... uilty.html
In the two months since he was found guilty of using a webcam to spy on his roommate, Dharun Ravi has gone from being a symbol of antigay bias..."
"... to being something of a folk hero, with rallies of his supporters urging the court to 'free Dharun.'"Mr. Ravi could face deportation to his native India if he is given a prison sentence. Many Indians have been among his biggest supporters. At a rally on the State House steps in Trenton last week, some waved signs with the headline on [former New Jersey Governor Jim] McGreevey’s article: “Don’t Make Dharun Ravi Our Antigay Scapegoat.”
( check the commnets)

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 22:40
by ramana
Raja Bose wrote:
Philip wrote:Where is the US outrage about Headley,Kasab,et al,and the masterminds luxuriating in the in open in Pak? Why are there no drone strikes to "take out" these ungodlies,or an operation similar to the one that took out OBL? The US? Rank hypocrites.They have a different standard when it suits their selfish interests.
Where is the Indian outrage? All I see is our dear PM hugging groper, our Bollywood producers launching Paki actors and our chatterati doing Aman-ki-Asha. There is no different standard - The US looks after its own interests period. They don't give an eff-eff about rest of the world. The sooner we understand that, the better. We need to get rid of our "Koi kuch karta kyon nahin*" habit.

*Why doesn't someone do something? (a common Hindi movie dialogue for bystanders witnessing a crime)

Philip's comments expecing the US to do something is a hangover from the Colonial era when gora log dispensed justice to squabbling natives.

US dispenses with justice as it suits them.

RB's comments reflect this reality.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 22:53
by Nandu
Dharun Ravi sentenced to 30 days in Jail.

Could have been much worse.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 21 May 2012 23:34
by ramana
The judge threw out most of the charges despite the jury pronounicng him guilty 288 times!

Dharun Ravi sentenced

Looks like the judge had to give him some jail time due to the jury's pronouncements.

Judge Monday sentenced a former Rutgers University student, Dharun Ravi, to 30 days in jail for spying on his gay roommate who later committed suicide, rejecting defense arguments that he did not deserve time behind bars but disappointing prosecutors who portrayed him as insensitive and driven by anti-gay bias.

Ravi, who is now 20, had faced 10 years in prison after being convicted last March of invasion of privacy, witness tampering, tampering of evidence, and the hate crime of bias intimidation. He was also sentenced to 300 hours of community service.

The jury had concluded that Ravi had targeted his roommate, Tyler Clementi, because Clementi was gay, and the bias-crime status virtually guaranteed he would get some prison time.

Clementi, 18, threw himself from the George Washington Bridge in September 2010, shortly after learning that Ravi had secretly videotaped him in their room with a male date.

While Ravi never was accused of causing Clementi’s death, the circumstances sparked a national debate on bullying and other pressures facing gay youths. During the trial, prosecutors sought to portray Ravi as a homophobic, self-satisfied college freshman who took pleasure in humiliating his shy, sensitive roommate.

Judge Glenn Berman addressed Ravi before announcing his sentence, saying: “Nothing I say is intended in any way to disparage you or demean you. I don’t even know you.”

“But I heard this jury say ‘guilty’ 288 times -- 24 questions, 12 jurors -- that's the multiplication. And I haven’t heard you apologize once,” he said as Ravi sat silently, his chin often resting on his fist. “You cannot expunge the conduct or the pain you caused.”

He noted that Ravi has no prior record and that it was unlikely he would commit another offense. He also said he did not think Ravi was anti-gay.

“I do not believe he hated Tyler Clementi … but I do believe he acted out of colossal insensitivity,” Berman said. Ravi’s mother sobbed in the courtroom as the sentence was read, and Clementi’s parents sat quietly.

Ravi, sitting in a dark suit and tie, sat quietly with his eyes downcast, as he had throughout the morning as Clementi’s parents, brother, and prosecutors appealed for prison time, rejecting arguments that as a first-time offender, Ravi should be spared incarcerations.

“All of the defendant's actions … were planned, were purposeful, and were malicious,” prosecutor Julia McClure said, describing Ravi as an arrogant attention-seeker and dismissing the defense claim that Ravi meant no harm when he secretly filmed Clementi. It “defies logic and common sense,” she said.

“The jury’s verdict gave some measure of justice … but justice can only be fully realized by respecting and enforcing the law and punishing this defendant for his conduct, his criminal acts,” she said. :((

Defense attorney Steve Altman read a statement to Berman after Clementi’s mother, father, brother and a man secretly filmed with Clementi demanded prison time for Ravi.

Altman said he had come before the packed courtroom with an anxiety “1,000-fold more than what I’ve ever experienced before” because he knew he needed to persuade Berman to keep Ravi out of jail. “I know that’s climbing a mountain,” he said, but he repeated his argument that the case had been overshadowed by Clementi’s suicide even though Ravi was not charged in his death.

“This isn’t about a simple invasion of privacy,” he said. “This case is being tried and it’s being treated and exists today as if it’s a murder case.” Even the victim impact statements “are replete with suggestions … that Dharun has some responsibility, some role in that terrible, terrible choice of Tyler’s.”


As he spoke, Ravi, dressed in a dark suit, sat quietly, his eyes downcast. Those in the packed courtroom included more than a dozen family members, including his father, Ravi Pazhani, who said his son had been “dragged through the mud” and demonized for Clementi’s suicide even though he said he had no part in it. “Dharun is punished for what happened after the incident,” he said, referring to Clementi’s death.

Pazhani described his son as a “passive child” and said it was impossible that he could have become the arrogant bully that prosecutors portrayed during his first year in Rutgers. “We are not a homophobic family. Dharun was not raised to hate gays,” said Pazhani, who also alluded to his family’s Indian heritage.

“As an American, I may look different, have a different skin color, may speak differently from most,” he said in heavily accented English. “But believe me, I am a parent first.” Pazhani then went on to pay tribute to Tyler Clementi, referring to his talents as a violinist and lamenting his early death.

“Rest in peace, Tyler, you will always be in our thoughts and prayers,” he said before appealing to Berman to spare his son jail time.

Ravi, who had been stoic through the various statements, broke down in tears when his mother, Sabitha Ravi, then took a seat beside him at the defense table and described between sobs how the case had devastated the family and how she felt her son had been wrongly characterized.

“Dharun’s dreams are shattered and he has been living in hell for the past 20 months,” she cried.
In essence the judge agreed with the defence and gave nominal jail time.

The case will go to appeal.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 22 May 2012 05:14
by Philip
So Ramana and RB,when do our ownn interests get looked after and when will we get our own "regime change" ?! The fall of the Rupee is an omen of things to come.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 22 May 2012 05:18
by ramana
Philip, Shouldnt the question be in the Indian interests thread? Also rupee fall might give indigestion to the hungry market access folks.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 23 May 2012 21:10
by Garooda
ALL: My apologies to the members of BR on behalf of my brother who was visiting me. He had access to this account as I had set the option to remain logged in all the time and had also set the browser to remember the password(s). He is a consultant(gamer by nature and into CGI) with ample of time on his hands between projects. He is a single guy and can also be bit of a doofus and argue just for the sake of it and to piss people off (especially after our mother who expired some 15 years ago). He was very young when he migrated to the US so he has very little knowledge about India. He is also single and a bit on the rebellious side. Hopefully that will change until his marriage hopefully next year. I hadn't realized until I tried to access the account and it indicated that it was banned for a month. Only one that I can think of is my brother who was around the whole time enjoying his break doing nothing but surfing and ofcourse waiting for his next assignment. I spoke to him and he carelessly laughed it off. I personally do not even visit this forum that often. I am a happily married man with 2 children and a busy profession let alone spending time on the net or forums.

Regards,
Garooda.

p.s: I have changed the password and the browser settings to not remember the password(s).

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 23 May 2012 21:27
by SaiK
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=18651 Our partnerships ... in the region are critical. And we're going to continue to invest in those relationships."
So these critical aspects are pertaining to sales alone?

what are the other bugs and screw drivers they are planning to sell via FMS?

Once dependency is made, slowly, they get better lever to hold us by the right spot, in the future.

Panetta has twice hyphenated us on the wrong side of things earlier.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 24 May 2012 00:11
by rgsrini
^^Garooda,
My dog ate my homework!

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 24 May 2012 05:47
by Philip
Indo-US mil. deals.The decision has been delayed for so long,and the need so critical,that frankly the lightweight howitzer/artillery deal if signed will be one of the few positive decisions made by the UPA-2.I am not sure though as to how much the acquisition of a couple of dozen attack helos is going to make.The numbers are paltry.The IA and IAF need them in the hundreds and production of armed versions of Dhruv,the LAH,etc.,locally produced in large numbers will be more relevant.

I am not sure though about acquiring Chinooks.The MI-26 is much larger,can actually recover a downed Chinook-as has been done in Afghanistan,and is already in service with the IAF.The engines for the Jaguar upgrades are long overdue,Raytheon is the only bidder after the Brits pulled out.I can't understand why this deal has been so delayed.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 24 May 2012 10:11
by SaiK
If the colonial era mindset is erased, we can assume that Indian constitution would get a makeover. I doubt we can kill that mindset so easily.. it is going to effect Indo-US relationship from that angle alone... at least another 50 years or till the oldie generation is rinsed off to real globalization needs., and how India should play and win business for the country.

US would always look at India, the china way to get cheap labor and make profit... It would never ever consider our corruptions or other problems but would just bring to fore to satisfy few special interest groups .

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 24 May 2012 20:51
by svinayak
SaiK wrote:
US would always look at India, the china way to get cheap labor and make profit... It would never ever consider our corruptions or other problems but would just bring to fore to satisfy few special interest groups .
Read Hegel and Adam Smith

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 19:50
by Altair
One of my relatives informed me about the spelling bee competition in US.
He said the difficulty level could be categorized as

"White Caucasian" - Beginner
"African American" - Moderate
"Hispanic/Latin American" - Advanced
"Indian American" - Master

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 20:08
by Anurag
Altair wrote:One of my relatives informed me about the spelling bee competition in US.
He said the difficulty level could be categorized as

"White Caucasian" - Beginner
"African American" - Moderate
"Hispanic/Latin American" - Advanced
"Indian American" - Master
Have you heard of the BNP (British National Party)? You're starting to sound like the Indian version of that now!

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 21:44
by Altair
Anurag wrote: Have you heard of the BNP (British National Party)? You're starting to sound like the Indian version of that now!
I was just quoting the opinion of people as I gather it was only yesterday kids of Indian Origin parents were placed in the top 4 in the national spelling bee competition in US. Its a stated fact that Indian origin kids do well in spelling bee and has been consistently doing so for the past few years. The standard of Indians is a testimonial to the right upbringing of kids. Now which part of it sounded racist to you? I can also say that you have some seeds of "leftist/marxist" leaning because you cannot see the success of Indians because you cant accept it?

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 22:21
by Nandu
"Why Are Indian Kids So Good at Spelling?
Because they have their own minor-league spelling bee circuit."
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... lling.html

Not that I agree completely with the article, but the North South Foundation has had a major effect.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 23:00
by Rony
Anurag wrote:
Altair wrote:One of my relatives informed me about the spelling bee competition in US.
He said the difficulty level could be categorized as

"White Caucasian" - Beginner
"African American" - Moderate
"Hispanic/Latin American" - Advanced
"Indian American" - Master
Have you heard of the BNP (British National Party)? You're starting to sound like the Indian version of that now!
I have no idea why you would say that ? I dont see anything wrong in what he said. !

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 23:06
by Altair
Rony wrote: I have no idea why you would say that ? I dont see anything wrong in what he said. !
p-secs in burqa.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 25 May 2012 23:13
by hnair
I think altair-saar's friend is opining like those asians (US speak for far-east peoples excluding Indian subcontinent and ME) who constantly post glowing comments on this skilled guitarist called Sunga Jung in Youtube. goes like these
"What ever you do
There will always be an asian
Doing better than you!"
or
"there is ordinary level,
the master level,
the chuck norris level.

And then there is Asian level"
What these gushing posters see is a display of extreme skill, that seems to be pretty cool to awkward youngsters from Asian-American communities, trying hard to fit in. What the rest of the world sees is a robotic performance with great skill, but with no heart. eg: when a Hendrix/Chuck Berry/Satriani, a native Flamenco artist or our very own Pandit Ravishankar plays, you see them move their body with the music. There is a lot of closed eyes and shaky heads. You know they "get it". Even after multiple viewings, it is still gripping. Try that with Sunga - just close your eyes and you can rather predict what it will be. Competently rendered, but monotonous.

Sheer skill can be acquired by repetitive renditions (practice) or by good innate cognitive power in music, but that is only the basic band of a pyramid for performing arts. Without getting into the heart part, one cant rise to the top of the pyramid.

Similarly, spelling bee is excelling in a basic band of the creative literature pyramid, with critical and popular fame in published works as the apex of the pyramid. We need more of these Indian kids to transition into the top. Else they will be seen as freak-shows, like the gymnastic students of China, who too get mercilessly trained from child level into "awesome performers".

And their gushing parents need to take a deep breath, rather than comparing races - gora is still the rule maker in most such pyramids. So unless we take over (like cricket world) or get co-opted into that role, they dont care whatever names we call them.

Fortunately, Indians are getting published more and more, ever since a certain dude wrote that epic book called The Golden Gate. But we need more and more and more kids sliding smoothly into that role.....

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 26 May 2012 03:17
by Surya
Its a stated fact that Indian origin kids do well in spelling bee and has been consistently doing so for the past few years. The standard of Indians is a testimonial to the right upbringing of kids.
flip side of it
they are fragile and nerdy in other ways

some look like they have not seen sunlight

other hold on to their parents hands for dear life

Didn't one faint out of sheer stress sometime back ??

hnair is right

at some point this starts to look like the nerdy \geeky version of the chinese gymnasts

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 26 May 2012 04:12
by Jayram
Oh btw the way top 3 in the National Geographic jeopardy round were also Indians.
looke here Geography Jeopardy
I do agree with hnair on Spelling bee but Jeopardy takes more than rote memorization it also takes quick recall and ability to associate events rapidly. It is also viewed as a more mainstream measure of intelligence by Americans.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 26 May 2012 18:05
by arun
X Posted from the TSP thread.
shiv wrote:
Kanishka wrote:What Holbrooke Would Do About Pakistan

Now Pakistan should be confronted with a clear and harsh update of that choice: confront the international community and be turned into a sanctioned pariah, like Iran, in which case the country will lose ground economically and militarily to its arch-rival India. Or, embrace fully anti-Taliban measures and be rewarded with more economic assistance, such as Clinton’s New Silk Road, which seeks to turn the region into a commercial hub once again.
Well there you are. Clear as crystal. Kicking India's ass is a juicy option - a "carrot" for Pakistan to cooperate with the West.
You are right. Yet more confirmation that India needs to be circumspect in its dealings with the US and needs to look the US Gift Horse in the mouth very carefully.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 26 May 2012 23:05
by merlin
hnair wrote:I think altair-saar's friend is opining like those asians (US speak for far-east peoples excluding Indian subcontinent and ME) who constantly post glowing comments on this skilled guitarist called Sunga Jung in Youtube. goes like these
"What ever you do
There will always be an asian
Doing better than you!"
or
"there is ordinary level,
the master level,
the chuck norris level.

And then there is Asian level"
What these gushing posters see is a display of extreme skill, that seems to be pretty cool to awkward youngsters from Asian-American communities, trying hard to fit in. What the rest of the world sees is a robotic performance with great skill, but with no heart. eg: when a Hendrix/Chuck Berry/Satriani, a native Flamenco artist or our very own Pandit Ravishankar plays, you see them move their body with the music. There is a lot of closed eyes and shaky heads. You know they "get it". Even after multiple viewings, it is still gripping. Try that with Sunga - just close your eyes and you can rather predict what it will be. Competently rendered, but monotonous.

Sheer skill can be acquired by repetitive renditions (practice) or by good innate cognitive power in music, but that is only the basic band of a pyramid for performing arts. Without getting into the heart part, one cant rise to the top of the pyramid.
Off topic I know, but check out Igor Presnayakov, in particular his rendition of the Pirates of the Carribbean theme song v/s that of Sungha Jung.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 27 May 2012 06:51
by shiv
Nandu wrote:"Why Are Indian Kids So Good at Spelling?
Because they have their own minor-league spelling bee circuit."
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... lling.html

Not that I agree completely with the article, but the North South Foundation has had a major effect.
OK let me throw in conjecture that is without any basis whatsoever.

Language is known to be intimately connected with brain structure. Brain structure too evolves and survival of a structure occurs when it provides a survival advantage. The Indian brain has evolved for 5000 years around survival in an environment that has a very well developed language and well developed memes to propagate knowledge by oral means. Both these skill come into play in these competitions and Indians win.

I am sure there is a model here that can be copied. I predict that some set of researchers will figure out the requirements for achieving this skill and either change the nature of the competition, or manage to groom non Indians to win. That is what science is all about

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 27 May 2012 13:17
by nvishal
Nandu wrote:"Why Are Indian Kids So Good at Spelling?
Indic scripts and languages are phonetic
English is not a phonetic language

It is the reason why indians unconsciously spell "chilled beer" as "child bear". Or "cycle" is pronounced as "saikal". And "future" becomes "foo-too-ray".

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 27 May 2012 15:18
by harbans
Whenever someone tells me, Indians speak good English, particularly in places in East Asia (Japan, China, Singapore) i always mention the fact that European languages originate from Sanskrit. Also the fact that most Indians speak more than 2 languages. I used to wonder why it is so difficult for Phillipino's, Japanese, Chinese to speak grammatically correct structures in English which they learn as a 2nd language. Indeed there is a pattern, and i guess it has to do with the sophistication level of Indic languages, Sanskrit in particular. We don't just speak a language to convey..we try and speak it in a grammatically correct manner too. Also a good post by Nair ji..good perspective it offers on this.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 04:19
by Roperia
U.S. International Role - C-SPAN Video Library

A panel discussion on what would be the FP challenges/opportunities for the two 2012 Presidential candidates. Almost all participants agree on a tighter "alliance" with India, Brazil and Turkey.

Panelists kinda highlight the following things for the incoming administration

=> Reform international monitory institutions or see the rise of something like BRICS bank.
=> Make tighter alliances with emerging countries like India, Brazil and Turkey.
=> China is a different organism than the emerging countries mentioned above. Panelists are hopeful that Gov. Romney will go soft on China.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 05:11
by Philip
Just watch the chaos on Indian telly.The UP criminals in the house.Shameful.Individually we score very high,but collectively,we are anything but together for the common good and are selfish anarchists in action.The statement by a Kerala CPM honcho that he would "kill rebels" (now being denied-as usual),indicates what savages some of our ruling "elite" are.I suggest that this trigger-happy lot of bravados be put in uniform and sent to the hotspots to fight alongside US/NATO troops!

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 09:27
by hnair
shiv wrote: I am sure there is a model here that can be copied. I predict that some set of researchers will figure out the requirements for achieving this skill and either change the nature of the competition, or manage to groom non Indians to win. That is what science is all about
Shiv-saar,

1) why should a circus owner change the rules of recruitment into his circus, if he actually needs folks from other communities for sideshows at the same time have a system for pretty people from his community to "manage" the rings, frontdesk and accounts? The pyramid is owned by them and their types rule the other higher bands.

eg: despite yehudi-birathers of the ashkenazi background hogging all pure science prizes, they are not changing the system. As long as the yehudi birathers work within the system for their benefit, why do the pyramid controllers care about the dominance in awards of such poor birathers hunched up over the years in front of books? :)

As I mentioned earlier, this spelling bee is a narrow band in a pyramid of creative writing. From publishers to critics to distro to award committees to PR lawyers, the other bands are far more influential to pose any challenge from these ill-looking Indian origin kids and their unhappy parents (only a tiny, tiny percent reaches stardom). We need kids that publish stuff, whenever they sneeze.

2) That changing goal-post happens a lot in HDI area, for obvious reasons: cheesed off voters in Chattanooga wondering why their poverty rate is higher than an ugly country in the third world. In this case, the Shield of Budweiser protects Joe-sixpaki from Spelling Bee's influences.

Scandinavians especially need the HDI v!agra to feel erect amongst nations. Especially since their barbaric past and barbaric recent past (Romanos).

Meanwhile some news straight out of Hannibal franchise:
Witness says naked attacker was chewing man's face

Instead of shooting to kill, I wonder what prevented the cop from taking him down and arresting him for questioning? Fear? Too much X-files as a kid? Or he could not attend the seminar circuit of the Lt John Pike? Maybe he thought zombie movie axiom of "double-tap" is law of his country?

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 12:13
by Anurag

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 15:06
by Singha
hnair sir, I believe things will get a tad hostile if indic origin kids start to crowd out the chosen in ivy league financial schools and then onto the plum NYC/chicago/boston financial houses. but then selection into these money mills is not just based on test scores or CGPA, but on interviews and the 'right' people will always have a discreet advantage there.

here and there , for sake of diversity and emerging market psyops they will let people in, but never allow to dominate.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 21:16
by Advait
Regardless of the merit or usefulness of winning spelling bees, it is a useful thing for the Indian community and Indians in general. I once read some Indo-Canadian who said that till the 1970s, Canadian textbooks said East Indians are lazy because of the hot climate and are poor because of cultural factors etc.

Winning contests like these puts one more dent in the whiteman's supremacy belief. Suppose, if Indians were not at all interested in winning spelling bees and there was not a single desi kid winning. These same goras who are now saying winning a spelling bee is no big deal who be saying that the fact Indians don't win, shows that their protein starved brains can't handle memorizing/ understanding English blah blah blah.

Of course as Singha has said, as Indians move even more up the ladder, from upper-middle class/professional to actual positions of power and influence there is going to be friction. Be ready for crap on caste, women blah blah blah.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Posted: 29 May 2012 21:24
by svinayak
Advait wrote:Regardless of the merit or usefulness of winning spelling bees, it is a useful thing for the Indian community and Indians in general. I once read some Indo-Canadian who said that till the 1970s, Canadian textbooks said East Indians are lazy because of the hot climate and are poor because of cultural factors etc.
Colonial narrative of India was the only view point in most of the west. Even now those view are prevelant in the books and reports.