India-US Relations : News and Discussion

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 21 Jan 2015 20:25

SBajwa wrote:How so? Your opinion is made up by the Hollywood and US Television. I see US and Indian culture much closer.

The two cultures are very different

One has a jugaadi mentality and the other is high maintenance

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Jan 2015 20:32

SwamyG wrote:The no fly zone for Obama visit is growing larger.

It is getting ridiculous, but is not surprising. We see this every visit, somehow the Americans make a huge hue and cry about being secure, as though we don't know to host foreign heads of state. Our heads of govt. have been hosting and attending the Republic Day parade for decades.

I am not sure if the flypast will be held or not. But I would like GoI to agree to whatever security demands they make for peace of mind to the USG (they will be guests, after all), but announce that it was done on explicit US requests. Why, even drop most offensive military platforms form the parade. The only impression one would get is the US Pres. is so scared to sit in a bullet proof enclosure for 2 hours - something our President and PM do every year without issues. At some point, our people will notice.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2015 21:18

Amir-Khan Chorporates and their Indic ilks carry forward religiously the same attitude towards maximizing profit for the chors. The chor tax is now om baba's obsession that may not see to his vetos and would die filibustered. modi-nomics has a challenge to retain indian organic thought flows to flourish against chors and media guptas aap-tizing on the jobs front, while giving away tax free holidays and what not. one thing is about clearances, but it is entirely a different thing to see if the chors are impacting the environment, jobs security (see what happened to nokia @chennai), etc. chors don't guarantee job with a hire/fire model. raising standards are important, but how those standards are raised with indic context is important. put simply, amir khan model can only work for katrina kaif class people and not for sdre-cattle class labor force.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 21 Jan 2015 21:19

CRamS wrote:
SBajwa wrote:
How so? Your opinion is made up by the Hollywood and US Television. I see US and Indian culture much closer.
you've got to be kidding me. Every aspect of life, every second of the day to day life an average Indian and an average American live, are poles apart. And given the disparity in power, the overwhelming sense of racial/cultural superiority that Americans have, means that an average American will be bewildered and be contemptuous of an average India's lifestyle and worldview. Of course, that does not mean India and US cannot collaborate, both bleed red and both like the green, but strategic partnership BS is out of the question.

Bewildered? Yes. Contemptuous? Not really.

The main thing that elicits "contempt" from Americans (and most "1st world" outsiders) is the stink, trash and general state of filth that comprises most Indian streets and neighborhoods. Indian culture is growing in popularity within the US, actually. Americans like the idea of India even if they're put off by the reality of it. Politically Indians and Americans have much in common in the sense that both societies value freedom and have a long tradition of civilian disobedience and general disrespect for authority. The irreverence with which Indians and Americans both view their govts is something that I like about both peoples. By contrast most of the world, including the Europeans\Russians\Chinese\Japanese are pretty authoritarian in their leanings (some more than others, though even the Europeeons tend to worship govt and have limited free speech).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2015 21:24

American Idea of India is maximizing Indic loop holes, and create more loop holes to maximize American entities to flourish. This is where laws needs to be amended. Like I said long back under burkha forum, it is okay to scratch back.. let the scratch be on the == basis perhaps.

om baba - modi chorporate tax are shared 50:50. game? now, there are are hurdles here too... but, we have a basis for the chors to deploy lock, stock and barrel on cheaper labor and mgmt force.. all we lack is the production engineering skills and precision data that is required for efficient ops.

such an inter gov tax sharing scheme to chorporates will kill china forever!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Jan 2015 21:36

by CRams
you've got to be kidding me. Every aspect of life, every second of the day to day life an average Indian and an average American live, are poles apart.

NOPE!!! An average american works (40-60 hours per week) just like an Indian does., An average american raises family just like an Indian does., an average american goes to his place of worship once a week Indian might go more than once a week.

An average american is very proud of his history because it was the first democratic country in 1776 and thus an Average american values other democracies like India. An average american knows about the perfidy of Pakistan.

Also! an average american culture is mixed up the cultures from around the world (German, Irish, Russian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, British, etc)., much bigger world view than an Average Indian culture (Punjabi , Tamilian, Bengali, Oriyan, Gujarati, etc).

I can get Indian samosa as well as Lebanese or German food right next to each other.
I can listen to Indian music, watch Indian movies, watch Indian tv (all channels) and sports without any restrictions.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Jan 2015 21:42

Where can I meet this average american who knows Bakistani perfidy? My native American neighbor might disagree with you that Amirkhan was founded in 1776.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2015 21:43

Are you saying a joe blow 6 packer has the same cool value as indic sdre-to-hammer+sickle laborer? we are talking two entirely different cultural stack to push one into as American and pop it out as Indian.

but then, when it comes to slacking.. we have equality!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Jan 2015 21:47

by LokeshC
Where can I meet this average american who knows Bakistani perfidy?

My neighborhood where out of 50 houses at least 10 young kids are serving in Afghanistan/Iraq. Along with a hospital clerk in Northwestern PA who lost her 19 year old son in Afghanistan. You need to get out of Bay Area, NYC, Chicago, Houston to the real hinterland USA., and check the average middle class american.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Jan 2015 21:48

Serious question: Hispanic neighborhood?

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Jan 2015 21:49

by Saik
Are you saying a joe blow 6 packer has the same cool value as indic sdre-to-hammer+sickle laborer? we are talking two entirely different cultural stack to push one into as American and pop it out as Indian.

well Joe blow only lives in the mountains of WV or few counties in Alabama! Rest is all average middle class people either working for somebody or having their own small business.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Jan 2015 21:54

Nope!!

50 house holds (2 hispanic households, 1 Indian, 47 White) (some white have black/hispanic relatives who often visit during summer parties) !! Only thing is that they are all the working middle class ( mostly with Computers, Doctors, Nurses, Business, Army reserves, Air Force, Navy reserves, one Pastor, etc)

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Jan 2015 22:01

One thing Richard Verma is right about is that India-US trade is about $100 billion/annually, there is no reason why it should not be $500 billion/annually by 2020. Once India is in the top 7 trading partners with the US, there is reason to hope that US-India relations will improve significantly.

At present, India is rank 11 for a US trade partner. The top 7 in order are Canada, China, Mexico, Japan, Germany, Korea, and UK.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/st ... 411yr.html

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Jan 2015 22:03

SBajwa wrote:
by LokeshC
Where can I meet this average american who knows Bakistani perfidy?
My neighborhood where out of 50 houses at least 10 young kids are serving in Afghanistan/Iraq. Along with a hospital clerk in Northwestern PA who lost her 19 year old son in Afghanistan. You need to get out of Bay Area, NYC, Chicago, Houston to the real hinterland USA., and check the average middle class american.

Those who served in Afghanistan have poor opinions of TSP.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2015 22:09

I am pretty confident that the khaans has the wherewithal to suck BARC's AtHWR entirely for itself. They will try to scratch to that levels of lay bare, of course under ChIA pet supervisions. Those are the areas it interests khaans more than basic market, which is anyway part of the main deal. I'm keeping my finger's crossed on NaMoste Om-baba, and how much NaMo will bend his head.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Jan 2015 22:25

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 962079.cms
US President Barack Obama calls on Congress to authorize force against Islamic State

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jan 2015 22:29

OT, I know, but..Frogistani view on YooEss

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Jan 2015 22:30

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 962392.cms
PM Modi and Barack Obama may do a joint radio address in India

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Jan 2015 22:53

Interesting turn of arguments on this thread.

LokeshC wrote:Where can I meet this average american who knows Bakistani perfidy? My native American neighbor might disagree with you that Amirkhan was founded in 1776.

Saar, no need to go far, only WI. Pliss to read the rest of my post.

Y. Kanan wrote:The main thing that elicits "contempt" from Americans (and most "1st world" outsiders) is the stink, trash and general state of filth that comprises most Indian streets and neighborhoods. Indian culture is growing in popularity within the US, actually. Americans like the idea of India even if they're put off by the reality of it.

Let me put forth an example:

Netflix has this documentary called "Citizen Koch" - a political documentary about money power in US politics, and how the unions were bused in Wisconsin by the governor. Anyway, this documentary proceeds very predictably, nothing more to object about. One eventually starts feeling sorry for the average American in WI. By busting unions, these people are impacted with lower pay and benefits, and can't do their jobs and pay for stuff. They profile an average security/prison guard working somewhere in, and for the state of, Wisconsin (note: not the progressive coasts or dumps of WV), but in the industrial mid-west, as average as it can be. Would you agree?

So one is nodding in agreement, feeling pity for these fellows who lost their jobs, and/or benefits, and this guy in question is most likely Republican to boot. Average enough?

Now comes the kicker: this guy (he is a regular Joe Sixpack, shown pumping iron) is now so pissed that he makes the following comment: (I paraphrase) "how can we pay for our houses if we all make $10?... They are turning us into India, we will all be answering phones".

There is your average American's average idea of India.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Jan 2015 23:08

pankajs wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 962392.cms
PM Modi and Barack Obama may do a joint radio address in India

And then, BO will stand in line to vote in Delhi Elections as Modi goes to amend the Constitution.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2015 23:18

^then AK49 will spray his turds as bullets.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Jan 2015 00:49

arshyam wrote:
Now comes the kicker: this guy (he is a regular Joe Sixpack, shown pumping iron) is now so pissed that he makes the following comment: (I paraphrase) "how can we pay for our houses if we all make $10?... They are turning us into India, we will all be answering phones".

There is your average American's average idea of India.

Exactly. I do agree that in many ways our local chowkidaar and joe-six-pack are very similar. They have a very poor understanding of geopolitics. An average American (i know a bunch from Montana

) are exactly as you described. Most of the decent ones go: "You are from India? Oh...". I have met a few indecent ones too and you dont want to know what they think of Indians.

So I am curious to see where this average american is who is so well versed with geopolitics. That said, I do know a few hispanics who served and they have some idea of TSP, but not a complete picture.

For an average joe-six-pack to understand Baki perfidy, the media has to get involved and create a lot of noise. That is not going to happen.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jan 2015 00:54

Edited.

ramana

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 22 Jan 2015 00:54

For an average joe-six-pack to understand Baki perfidy, the media has to get involved and create a lot of noise. That is not going to happen.

The average joe-six-pack has had lots buddies serving/rotating out of in eyeraq and afghani border and he/she gets his/her information via social/etc media live from eyeraq and afghan.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/india ... 120827.htm

http://indiaspora.org/blog/a-life-of-se ... ed-forces/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Singh_Taunque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudip_Bose <-- he treated Saddam Hussein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_h ... _Americans

http://www.armyg1.army.mil/HR/demographics.asp

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 22 Jan 2015 01:00

^^ But that does not mean they will necessarily consider/support the Indian PoV: chances are they don't know what the Indian PoV is, except that we and Paki's are enemies for some reason. To this avg sixpack, Paki perfidy w.r.t. US does not directly imply Paki perfidy with India.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 22 Jan 2015 01:05

What is Indian POV? for last 10+ years it has been doing nothing just waiting and watching while Cheena Panda keeps on making its pearls around us all around the world!! Now we are hoping that with Namo and Davol there will be something.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Jan 2015 01:13

^^^^ Dude, how does what happens in India change the opinion of Joe-Six-pack? The one who served have some idea. Its only people like (un)Fair didi who have a decent grasp of what the Bakis really are and how they use Islam (and even that grasp is not good because she does not truly understand Islam, when you think of her Hedbo article).

The areas that I have lived in have this interesting phenomenon (I have lived in SoCal, Texas, MidWest). Most military recruitment happens in "poor" areas that have reasonably low crime rate as well (low felons and low income). Largely hispanics and largely bills from the hills in montana. The rich movers and shakers and even the middle class tries to keep their kids from going into "jawan level" army position where they have to fight.

My GHQs sister is a registered nurse in the USN. The only reason she joined there is because they promised her she wont have to pay her enormous college debt. The rest of the family has kept as far away as they can from the armed forces.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jan 2015 02:08

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 958362.cms

Interesting trivia on US Presidential visits to India, also some context on the Only-India visit by Mr.O.

By the time time all this will be over, we would have had 1 week of coverage. Hopefully NaMO-O fotos will give us respite from Crazywal on TV.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jan 2015 02:08

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 958362.cms

Interesting trivia on US Presidential visits to India, also some context on the Only-India visit by Mr.O.

By the time time all this will be over, we would have had 1 week of coverage. Hopefully NaMO-O fotos will give us respite from Crazywal on TV.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jan 2015 02:08

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 958362.cms

Interesting trivia on US Presidential visits to India, also some context on the Only-India visit by Mr.O.

By the time time all this will be over, we would have had 1 week of coverage. Hopefully NaMO-O fotos will give us respite from Crazywal on TV.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 22 Jan 2015 02:26

Indian PoV:

Don't give money to Bakistan.
Don't support terrorism.
Bakistan is openly sponsoring terrorism in <fill in a state> - obvious choices include J&K, Punjab, etc.
Money given to Bakistan == money given to terrorism.
Money given to Bakistan ends up being used against India.
Hence don't give money to Bakistan.
Rinse, repeat.

Need I go on? How did these enlightened Joe Sixpacks and PIOs serving in the US armed forces change US policy, which even last month supposedly released some money to Bakistan?

Funny that I have to re-state the Indian PoV clearly on BRF, of all places. The above is what India has been shouting from rooftops for 50+ years, no one listened.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Jan 2015 02:41

This is a very good article on the visit:

Obama's Date with Delhi

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jan 2015 03:47

Mort Walker wrote:This is a very good article on the visit:

Obama's Date with Delhi

Reminds us of the fond days when Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw Putin's soul and what not. O & namO seem to have some chemistry, I guess that is what namO does to people.

Like Ramayanam's versions, there are going to be many versions of the invite: http://www.rediff.com/news/report/obama ... 150121.htm

A good read too that might make your blood boil: http://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/mo ... 29617.html

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 22 Jan 2015 04:04

SBajwa wrote: Also! an average american culture is mixed up the cultures from around the world (German, Irish, Russian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, British, etc)., much bigger world view than an Average Indian culture (Punjabi , Tamilian, Bengali, Oriyan, Gujarati, etc).

Bajwa-ji, read your history carefully before dismissing India as being more insular than US. The melting pot stuff US is going through now for the past century or so, India has already gone thru for many many centuries, multiple times. BTW WTH is Oriyan?

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 22 Jan 2015 05:51

SBajwa wrote:An average american knows about the perfidy of Pakistan.

The average American doesn't know the difference between a Pakistani and a Palestinian.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Jan 2015 06:02

Forget that - they do not know the difference between Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepali, Srilankan, ... How the Pakistanis pass off as Indians. Indians do have better street cred than anybody else from the subcontinent.

Vadivel · Post by **Vadivel** » 22 Jan 2015 06:07

Raja Bose wrote:BTW WTH is Oriyan?

People from Oriyan belt, when they crash landed in Odissa, their present leader is Kiantap Neevan, disguised in humanoid form.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 22 Jan 2015 06:13

CRamS wrote:
SBajwa wrote:
How so? Your opinion is made up by the Hollywood and US Television. I see US and Indian culture much closer.
you've got to be kidding me. Every aspect of life, every second of the day to day life an average Indian and an average American live, are poles apart. And given the disparity in power, the overwhelming sense of racial/cultural superiority that Americans have, means that an average American will be bewildered and be contemptuous of an average India's lifestyle and worldview. Of course, that does not mean India and US cannot collaborate, both bleed red and both like the green, but strategic partnership BS is out of the question.

And yet you're in the US and apparently thriving. Why are you dismissing any sort of bilateral relationship?

You have to play with the hand you're dealt. What are you doing (other than calling NPR) to make the 'relationship' happen?

BTW, at the 'strategic level' it means concrete steps to get the bilateral trade level up to $500bn and at the tourism level (reality of India), getting enough toilets to eliminate the stench, making the streets safer for foreigners (and Indian wimmenz) and the infrastructure more evolved than Lagos.?

This whole thing "We are like this only" no longer cuts any ice with Indians or firangis.

JMVHT

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jan 2015 06:16

well.. OT

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Jan 2015 06:22

Cosmo_R wrote: And yet you're in the US and apparently thriving. Why are you dismissing any sort of bilateral relationship?

Did I dismiss any sort of bilateral relationship? Kindly read what I said. In my opinion a transnational relationship based on realism (which I advocate) is infinitely better than strategic nonsense. And the reason I say that is because there is a huge power disparity, not to mention racial/cultural/civilizational disparities. But make no mistake, I am not diminishing the importance of US to India, whatever gripe I might otherwise have with US.