Bharat Rakshak

must be the pakistani Shia !!

RD, those are Paki Shias who have gone for their own Jihads. Some Paki Sunnis have also gone to Syria for their own Jihad to Syria (ISIS, Al Nusra) etc. Iranians are coordinating global Shias. Turkey, Saudi Arbia and Jordan are the bases for Sunnis.

Pak Army is mostly Sunni. Hence, I don't see the Paki pro Assad Shias to be a reason for Russian mil exercise in Pakistan. There are rumours of Indian Shias there too (I am referring to a Kurdish twitter handles tweet about one year ago) but one wouldn't be able to distinguish Indian and Pakis speaking Urdu.

Bhurishravas wrote:

habal wrote:China sending military advisors to Syria to be followed with troops
China will be helping out the Syrian government in the fight against Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIL/ISIS) by sending “military advisers,” media reports have claimed.
“More Chinese troops will be arriving in the coming weeks,” a Syrian army official told the Lebanon-based news website Al-Masdar Al-‘Arabi. The report claims that a Chinese naval vessel is on its way to Syria with dozens of “military advisers” on board. They will reportedly be followed by troops. The ship is said to have passed the Suez Canal in Egypt and be making its way through the Mediterranean Sea.
http://www.alamongordo.com/china-milita ... lp-russia/

I have read 5 times before on this thread that chinese military is coming and coming and coming.No chinese troops or military advisers are coming or will come. Period.
China has no interest in this fight just like India.

Now we are going to hear more and more that India is also going there. Everyone is hedging and depending on how much some ONE (ahem..) pisses the other off, syria deployment is possible for china / india.

Chinese in Syria wont be a formal troop but more like Special Ops and Advisor to SAA , They need training , maintenance for Chinese equipment in use by SAA , also SIGNIT/ELINT stuff that Chinese will bring along.

It is not by chance that the chinese are voting for Russia at UNSC and Vetoing against West , They have a strategy there and their interest involved they are maintaining a low profile though.

Only Humanatarian Help Rescue etc will be Overt Help

the Kornet ATGM has proved deadly in combat - less bulky than the TOW which needs a big tripod, 1300mm rha penetration ... ISIS has driven to ground turkiye tanks using kornets and other ATGMs and we no longer hear of the much vaunted turkish armour moving around in the north syria ....

it will pretty much disable or kill any tank even from the front. in wooded, hilly or built up areas it makes life very hard for tanks.

hezbollah in 2006 trapped and killed quite a few tanks taking advantage of overlooking positions and narrow valleys channeling tanks into predictable lines of advance and retreat



one thing you can see the IDF do here is covering damaged tanks or retreats by using smoke grenades and smoky mode of the diesel engines...this I have never seen used in syria videos though the T-series surely have this ability to create a smoke screen from the engines.

Eventually I foresee the Chinese J-11 flankers and pilots flying out of hmeimim airbase in Latakia and Russians opting for more forward deployment in bases in interior. Syria, factually, is the only place where China can receive combat experience, both for its air and land forces – primarily its special forces. This experience would be invaluable.

+1.

This would be a good opportunity for China to test it's wares and also blood it's special forces.

Problem is, it is a double edged sword. If this experience turns out like to Russo Finnish war of 1939 disaster for USSR and the lessons Hitler drew from it, then the wolf pack in SCS will smell blood and press home the advantage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37629679

A secret internment camp for former Islamic State militants and their families has been established in Syria.
Some 300 defectors and captured combatants, including many Europeans, are being held at the camp operated by the rebel group Jaysh al-Tahrir
The BBC has also learned that an underground railroad is being created in Syria, with other rebel groups and British and European intelligence services, to find, capture and return IS supporters.

ISIS, Hezbollah seen using weaponized drones, raising new fears in Syria http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/12 ... syria.html

Eu trying to quietly take home their serpents and pwehaps reuse on hitherto desirable targets likd russia or india.

Cheen can help best by donating masses of tube and rocket arty and a supply chain back to norinco depots. Throw in bpj and atgms too.

I doubt anything more than advisers will be sent to Syria. They don't have the capability to deploy forces in large number or fight unkil anywhere in middle east or West asia. Not to mention Soko, Japan and unkil will step up pressure in SCS.

Advisor to Turkish PM: Russia, Turkey only states that oppose collapse of Syria

http://tass.com/world/906107?_ga=1.6155 ... 1462511035

Singha wrote:hezbollah in 2006 trapped and killed quite a few tanks taking advantage of overlooking positions and narrow valleys channeling tanks into predictable lines of advance and retreatone thing you can see the IDF do here is covering damaged tanks or retreats by using smoke grenades and smoky mode of the diesel engines...this I have never seen used in syria videos though the T-series surely have this ability to create a smoke screen from the engines.

Kornet Turkeying,Tearing Turkey Tank Tops.

What a complex war! Turk backed rebels are fighting IS, YPG is also fighting IS not far away from Turk border but Turks & YPGs don't like each other. So when fighting is done with IS, they will attack each other unless some sort of settlement is reached through Russia et al.

Turk says defeating IS proving difficult as they are tough fighters; progress unsatisfactory http://www.reuters.com/article/us-midea ... SKCN12C0PY

M60 upg sabra tanks. Very inept tank formation that

Claim from pro saa guy. Also nusra and zinki will fight on per other tweets but other rebels might be willing to deal out and leave...

Yusha Yuseef – ‏@MIG29_

Breaking #Aleppo
Report : Negotiations to exit number of militants from the eastern districts of Aleppo through a grove Bostan Al-Qaser

It is not by chance that the chinese are voting for Russia at UNSC and Vetoing against West , They have a strategy there and their interest involved they are maintaining a low profile though.

They are abstaining often too. Their strategy is silent rise.
Not getting involved needlessly in other people`s war is a smart strategy. Jinping is more active than his predecessors but even he has the sense to see that there are absolutely zero benefits in fighting in Syria or elsewhere west asia.
China wont even send advisors, leave alone troops.

Austin wrote:Advisor to Turkish PM: Russia, Turkey only states that oppose collapse of Syria

http://tass.com/world/906107?_ga=1.6155 ... 1462511035

The whole thing has so much irony in it that it is impossible to even laugh.
Turkey opposes Assad. For years it has been the conduit for arms and men for ISIS and other radical elements.
Russia supports Assad militarily.

The only thing common between jihaadi Erdogan and Russia today is anti-americanism. If Russia gets seduced by such pure nonsensical stupidity as Turkey is peddling, I would admit that dictators egos drive their foreign policy and not their nations interest. And Russia is no better than USA where hate for a strategic adversary blinds one to all other evils.
IMHO, Russia allowing Turkey to invade Syria and drive a wedge between different Kurdish cantons was a mistake. Hopefuly Putin wont commit more of these.

IndraD wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37629679

A secret internment camp for former Islamic State militants and their families has been established in Syria.
Some 300 defectors and captured combatants, including many Europeans, are being held at the camp operated by the rebel group Jaysh al-Tahrir
The BBC has also learned that an underground railroad is being created in Syria, with other rebel groups and British and European intelligence services, to find, capture and return IS supporters.

Lets hope European countries will not let these serpents roam free in society! Once they return back. What are chances they will be used as double agents?

My guess is that the Guanao Bay Hospitality Model will be adopted in most of these countries.

Rudradev wrote:Hello... did anyone notice this?

From the article posted by Austin:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 15681.html

..to understand Assad's troops, I would have to be multilingual," The Iranian officers, meanwhile, speak Persian. And nobody, the scout continues, understands the Pakistanis when they speak Urdu.
Throws a whole new light on the Russian/Pak military exercises that occurred recently, and the Pakistani bravura about a Sino-Russian-Pakistani axis, doesn't it?

Balochis, perhaps? Balwaristanis? I would imagine that any foreign fighters on the SAA side are shia, hain? I don't believe for a moment that TSPA will send Sunni terrorists to fight against Saudi/Gelf-backed ISIS, no way!

OTOH, if these are Balochis/Balwaris, this means that after the Syrian tamasha is ended, Eyerainian "hyoomanitarian aid" may be expected in Balochistan as quid pro quo. Maybe even in Balwaristan via FSU /CAR nations. All in all, a happy development, I would say.

...and the houthis try yet again......

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dod ... en-n665286

the houthis ain't scared pf Obama's sissy love taps.

c-802 missile

Design[edit]
The C-802 anti-ship missile was derived from the Chinese YJ-8 (C-801) with extended range. The YJ-82 is externally similar to the YJ-8, and has the same solid-propellant rocket booster and guidance system as the YJ-8. The most distinctive difference on the YJ-82 is that it employs a turbojet with paraffin (kerosene)-based fuel to replace the original solid rocket engine. For this reason the fuselage was extended to accommodate the extra fuel. The maximum range of the missile has also been extended from the original 40 km (or 80 km for YJ-81/C-801A) to 120 km.

The YJ-82 is almost identical to the YJ-8 in appearance apart from a slightly longer fuselage and an air inlet for the turbojet engine. The missile has a slim body and ovoid nose. There are four front delta wings, four smaller control surfaces, and four large tail stabilising wings. The tail wings are mounted on the rocket booster and are lost when the booster detaches from the missile body. The air inlet is located between the main fins under the missile body. The front and tail wings are folded when the missile is in the launcher.

When the missile is launched, the solid rocket propellant booster accelerates the speed of the missile to Mach 0.9 in a few seconds. After the booster burns out, it detaches from the missile body and the missile's turbojet engine starts. Controlled by the inertial autopilot system and radio altimeter, the missile flies at a cruising speed of Mach 0.9, and the cruise altitude is reduced to 10–20 metres (depending on the sea state) from the original 20–30 metres of the C-801/YJ-81.

When entering the terminal phase of flight, the missile switches on its terminal guidance radar to search for the target. Once within a few kilometers of the target, the missile drops to 3–5 meters above sea level, about the same as a French Exocet missile. This altitude is slightly lower than the original 5–7 metres of the C-801/YJ-81. The missile may also maneuver during the terminal phase to make it a more difficult target for shipborne air defense systems. When approaching the target, the missile dives to hit the waterline of the ship to inflict maximum damage. At the 6th Zhuhai Airshow held at the end of 2006, the manufacturer revealed that the "pop-up" approach and the checkpoint flight functions are being worked on.

As well as its terminal guidance radar, the midcourse guidance is inertial. During the inertial guidance, the YJ-8 missile is also equipped with a radio altimeter for use with its autopilot during cruise. The missile's terminal guidance radar with monopulse system possesses high anti-jamming capabilities. The high precision radio altimeter allows the missile to have a minimum-altitude flight above the sea, normally 20–30 m.

The missile uses a 165 kg semi-armor-piercing anti-personnel blast warhead which relies on the missile's kinetic energy to pierce the deck of a ship, penetrate into and explode in the ship's interior. The YJ-82 might have a higher single hit probability than the YJ-8/YJ-81.[citation needed]

Upgrades[edit]
Most upgrades of C-802 are funded not by the Chinese government but by the manufacturers and trading firms themselves. Most upgrades focused on the guidance systems.

The radar altimeter can be replaced by a newly developed laser altimeter, which is much less likely to be detected via ESM. The laser altimeter can be retrofited to all models of this anti-ship missile family.

One of the first upgrades included the incorporation of infrared homing guidance so that there is a dual guidance system similar to that of the Taiwanese Hsiung Feng II missile. Imaging infrared seeker and a television seeker similar to that of the C-701 anti-ship missile became available later. The imaging infrared seeker is reportedly derived from the imaging infrared seeker technology developed for Chinese air-to-air missiles. These three seekers are interchangeable with the original radar seeker, and can be fitted at naval bases rather than the factory.

As the imaging infrared seeker and the television seeker are significantly smaller than the radar seeker, the manufacturer has taken advantage of the extra space to develop a variety of combined seekers for dual guidance, which include: radar and imaging infrared guidance, television and imaging infrared guidance, dual band (infrared and imaging infrared) guidance, and television and infrared guidance. These combined seekers can also be fitted at naval bases. The manufacturer says that as of the last quarter of 2006 no orders had been received for any of the combined seekers except the radar and infrared guidance, due to funding problems.

A datalink associated with the radar seeker and the dual radar and infrared guidance seeker armed C-802 was added to enable the missile to receive target information provided by aircraft, and this later became a standard feature. The first successful test fire of the C-802 with the datalink was conducted with Harbin SH-5 ASW equipped with British radar, and soon after, with Y-8X Maritime Patrol Aircraft equipped with Litton Canada radar. This datalink was originally developed for YJ-83/C-803, the successor of the YJ-82/C-802, and adopted for the YJ-82/C-802 upgrade.

Based on the datalink associated with the radar seeker, a newer datalink that was compatible with all three types of seekers was also successfully developed, enabling the missile to significantly improve its attack capability by allowing the pilot of the aircraft or the crew of the ship to view the images provided by the television or the imaging infrared seekers, and thus to select the potential targets, just like the way A-10 pilots used the images provided by the imaging infrared seekers of AGM-65 Maverick Air-to-surface missiles for targeting during the Persian Gulf War. Land attack capability is the greatest beneficiary since mobile targets on land can be engaged as a result, though only when the missile is equipped with television and imaging infrared seekers, but not the radar seeker. Like the datalink only associated with the radar seeker, the newer datalink allows the operators to alter the course of the missile and change targets after launching. However, there are no reports to support the claim that the operator can terminate the attack via the datalink like that of the Harpoon missile. This new datalink has very little difference from radar seeker associated datalink it is developed from in terms of hardware; the major difference is the software programs.

For the air-launched version, a universal missile launching rail system was also developed for the C-802, reducing the installation time significantly. The new system also allowed virtually any aircraft in the Chinese inventory to be armed with the YJ-82K.

For the surface-launched version, China developed a new launcher/storage container that is able to handle YJ-8 (C-801), YJ-82 (C-802) and CY-1 ASW missiles, and this new container became standard.

UB:

Maybe, maybe.

BUT can you put it past the two-faced ISI to be hedging its bets vis-a-vis Gelf Sunnis?

Even if they are Balwari Shias, or simply ordinary Pakjabi Shias, maybe their training, equipment, transportation to theatre etc. has been facilitated by TSPA/ISI as a move to curry favour with the Russkis and Iranians? There WAS a Shia militant group in Pakjab called Tehreek-e-Jaffria that I'm sure contributed to Pakistan's "HR" base by inculcating that uniquely Paki version of skill development... Quran (in this case the Shia edition), AK phortysevan, RPG, IED etc. So maybe the ISI has "bodyshopped" some of these guys to Syria? They would be less likely to make trouble at home if they were outside on "project basis", no?

After all, IT is Pakistan's main export... would they be choosy as to who their customers were? Especially if, as is their wont, they're trying to play both sides.

Tej had a fued with sipah e sahaba and lashkar e jhangvi in the good old karachi civil war days then went vlo

What ops is the usn conducting there other than baiting thd houthis and covering their gcc buddies?
It would seem easier to sail north and let the gcc patrol ships do their naval blocade thing...why does the usn need to join this war?

I don't think the ships are very close to the coast and thus merely serving as back up support for the gcc. or else the houthis would be hitting the tin cans or at least making a better show for their missiles..

If Iran can back up the houthis then the US can back up the gcc.

there is nothing sacrosanct about the houthis and their backers, Iran.

I'll bet there were some pretty big iranian brass that were smoked at the funeral, thus the missiles fired at Uncle Sams tin cans.

TSJones wrote:I don't think the ships are very close to the coast and thus merely serving as back up support for the gcc. or else the houthis would be hitting the tin cans or at least making a better show for their missiles.. If Iran can back up the houthis then the US can back up the gcc.

What exactly is "backing up" by sailing out in the water when the fighting is out in the desert I wonder... Sounds more like what Putin said about BO being like a pigeon playing chess: strutting around the board, pooing all over the place, and then declaring victory.
Seriously, all that this is doing is to put about a thousand service personnel in grave danger for absolutely no benefit to the interests of the USA. What US interests do the Houthis threaten? What's the excuse for supporting the camel-buggering Saudis to go murder Houthi children using US-supplied weapons operated by US-trained twerps?

Rudradev wrote:UB:
can you put it past the two-faced ISI to be hedging its bets vis-a-vis Gelf Sunnis? After all, IT is Pakistan's main export... would they be choosy as to who their customers were? Especially if, as is their wont, they're trying to play both sides.

The Gelfis have long memories and long knives. No way will TSPA/Jehad Jarnails risk bissing off the only ppl who will agree to take them when they have to exit TSP in a hurry. Remember what happened to Dawood's flunky in Dubai? A handover to the yindoos, no less!!

may I know why the US needs to fight a continuous low key war with Iran at this juncture? or is the business of waging war too serious to let peace intrude ?

what vital interest of the US is being threatened by iran - they are not exporting terrorism, radical shia revolution or even fomenting trouble in the GCC - or is their ThoughtCrime[tm] that they are only nation around the persian gulf who is not under US boots / vassal status and want to live independent ? or the only one standing up to the saudis and qataris who bankroll both sides of the US politics ?

their help in syria is what a few 1000 max poorly trained "quds force" types who even the nusra front soundly defeated in khan touman and el eis last time they got into a serious fight. this pales before the weapons and legions the GCC has sent there for the other side. their regular army is a shambles and their AF is still flying F-4 phantom and F-14 tomcats by some duct tape and fevicol magic. a MASSIVE threat to world piss and democracy no doubt.

the last serious hezbollah vs israel fight was 2006 - a decade ago. israel has nuclear weapons and delivery systems in depth. rest of arabs are bought off. there is syria and iraq in between. so surely the persian hordes under a new Cyrus the great are not going to march on jerusalem eh?

people are working themselves up into a froth over russian maskirovka....next threat to EU is supposed to be taking over a sandbar in the baltic

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/world ... -news&_r=0

another version of the evil YYY+RAA threat the paks see under every bush

Russian Embassy, USAVerified account
‏@RusEmbUSA
Last time #Russia abstained from vetoing a 'humanitarian' resolution proposed by the West, a state failed. We learn from our mistakes.

Singha wrote:Russian Embassy, USAVerified account
‏@RusEmbUSA
Last time #Russia abstained from vetoing a 'humanitarian' resolution proposed by the West, a state failed. We learn from our mistakes.

That was Libya moment , Russia and China abstained from vetoing as US led them to believe this was pure humanitarian air cover and not regiem change , we know what happened then with Gadaffi rest is history as as Hillary says it neatly "We Came We Saw He Died"

Since then China and Russia has jointly vetoed most UNSC proposal that even had any suspicion of Military ops.

US undermines Syria ceasefire agreements – Putin

MOSCOW, October 12. /TASS/. The United States has undermined the Syria ceasefire agreements although Russia met US counterparts halfway, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in an interview with the French TF1 TV channel.

"Our ceasefire agreements were undermined by the opposite side, but not by us," Putin said, explaining how the talks with the US were ongoing.

Russia insisted that first, terrorists should be separated from moderate opposition in Syria and second, a ceasefire should be declared. Washington supported the reverse order of events.

"Finally, we made concessions and reached an agreement. On September 12, a day of silence was declared but on September 16 the US air forces delivered strikes on the Syrian army, leaving 80 people dead," the Russian president said. "Instantly, right after the air strike, ISIL (abbreviation for Islamic State, a terrorist group outlawed in Russia) launched an offensive in that section."

"Our US counterparts told me that it was an erroneous strike," he went on to say. "The error killed 80 people, though."

"Perhaps, ISIL quite accidentally mounted an offensive after that strike," Putin said ironically, pointing out that a US defense official said openly that the US had been preparing the air strike for several days.

"How could they have mistaken if they had been preparing for it? How could it be possible?" he asked rhetorically.

Besides, Putin noted the United States repeatedly undermined the agreements, in which Washington was entrusted with the job of separating terrorists from Syria’s moderate opposition, and deadlines were even set for the purpose. "Nothing has been done! From month to month!" Putin said.

^^ Interesting Putin mentions the planned attack on SAA ground forces in which 80 died and 300 were injured was a co-ordinated event with days of planning and ISIL part of the game as they immediately attacked after the strike which is possible if they knew it in advanced and prepared for an offensive after the stike as SAA recovers from it

‘Limited self-defense strikes’: US military destroys 3 ‘radar sites’ in Yemen

Loss of radar sites means easier for Saudi lead coilation to strike the Houthis

Turkey has arrested about 400 officers who worked in NATO structures

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2178077.html

As the French resource «opex360.com» in the article «Environ 400 militaires turcs affectés auprès de l'Otan auraient été révoqués par Ankara», cleaning after the failed military coup that took place in Turkey July 15, 2016, did not end there - and especially for the armed forces. Thus, Ankara demands extradition of several hundred Turkish soldiers, who were at work in NATO structures, both in Europe and in the United States.

According to Reuters, at least 149 Turkish military attaché, who were attached to the NATO command centers in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, received an order from Turkey to return home within three days.

this is a lebanese news channel:

15 Saudi soldiers were killed and 40 others were injured after frustrating their advance attempt towards Mount Al-Dood in Jizan.

The Yemeni Army and Popular Committees launched rocketry attacks on various Saudi military sites, inflicting heavy losses upon them.

Ansarullah movement leader Sayyed Abdol Malek Badreddine al-Houthi delivered a speech on Ashura occasion, stressing the Yemeni steadfastness in the face of the US-administered Saudi war.

Sayyed Houthi underscored that the Yemenis are confronting a war on their values, hailing all those who support Yemen against the Saudi aggression, including Hezbollah and his Secretary General Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah.

Source: Al-Manar Website

I guess the decapitating strike based on humint spotters was intended as a shock n awe thing to strike fear into surviving leadership and impose a peace talks on strong saudi dictated terms.

however as it often happens, like post-barbarossa, post loss of kiev, kharkov and smolensk, with panzers knocking on the gates of moscow and leningrad, it has had the opposite impact and a "great patriotic war" call has gone out and tribes will probably flock under that banner....in a land where tribes could fight pitched battles over grazing and water rights, the sheikhs are highly influential elders and their assassination will not go down well among the boys.

Al masdar news.

DAMASCUS, SYRIA (7:00 A.M.) - The U.S. and their Persian Gulf counterpart Saudi Arabia have reportedly agreed to allow an estimated 9,000 Islamic State terrorists free passage from the Iraqi city of Mosul to Syria, a military source told the Russian-based RIA Novosti News Agency on Wednesday.

"More than 9,000 Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS, ISIL) militants will be redeployed from Mosul to the eastern regions of Syria to carry out a major offensive operation, which involves capturing Deir ez-Zor and Palmyra,” the source said.

The source suggested that redeployment of IS militants is necessary because“Washington must somehow counter Russia’s achievements in Syria, try to diminish their importance.”


"Apart from the purely political dividends, the other purpose of this operation, obviously, will be to discredit the success of Russian Airspace forces. And, of course, it’s an attempt to undermine Syrian President (Bashar) Assad,” he said.

The leadership of Saudi Arabia’s General Intelligence Directorate will be the mediators and guarantors of the agreement on safe passage for the jihadists from Mosul, he claimed.

With Mosul being the Islamic State's capital in Iraq, the Iraqi Armed Forces would have to defeat a large army of terrorists in order to retake this key city.

Unfortunately, the only place these terrorists are willing to go is Syria, where they can link back up with their allies in the provinces of Deir Ezzor, Al-Hasakah, Al-Raqqa, and Homs.



The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) is already combatting tens of thousands of Islamic State terrorists across the country; however, if this report proves true, the aforementioned terrorist group will receive a big boost in personnel near Palmyra and Deir Ezzor City.