Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[member_22539]

^I think Mr. Modi Knows this well. In spite of the muslim support nonsense floated by these subversive elements, he went ahead and put up the article 370 issue for debate (which will be followed by its inevitable repeal). I expect more in this regard in the future (like the uniform civil code). He has not fallen for this kind of nonsense in Gujarat and he will not fall for it in the national arena as well. These traitors constantly seem to underestimate him (or perhaps they are desperate enough to throw anything and see what sticks), but he is better than them in more ways than they understand.

[KLNMurthy]

Even chaiwallah can be PM; Sushma better than Modi: Digvijaya

Wonder why the opposition and English media houses/Burka Dutt types love Sushma so much?

They love her for the same reason they now love their erstwhile enemy LK Advani.

[KLNMurthy]

NaMo should first visit Tokyo, then Beijing, then Seoul, then Moscow.
Second tier, Tel-Aviv, Teheran and Kabul.
<SNIP>
No Europe. No USA. No Australia. Their leaders can come to Delhi if they want to see NaMo. Otherwise, his functionaries and appointed officials are quite capable of transacting any business that's required.

+1. Though I am not sure about Japan. Their current state and projected future state will keep them under Khan's thumbs. So a NaMo version of the "Asian Pivot" (whoever thinks up of these terms in the U.S!!) with Japan in mind will have huge limitations in terms of dependability and sustainability.

So to send the subtle message to Beijing, wouldn't visits to Taiwan and Vietnam followed by Moscow, Seoul and then Beijing be a better bet?

Viet Nam is a good country to become close friends with, and grow together.

[KLNMurthy]

We are getting ahead of ourselves. The elections are four months away and the outcome is far from certain.

+1

India's concerns are bigger than any one man. It is fine to support Modi, and it is fine to engage with his vision for India, as he is the best in the field today, but what will we do if Modi does not become PM? Throw up our hands and spend the rest of our lives in rona-dhona? What will we do if Modi becomes PM, but doesn't live up to expectations?

Let us reflect that things came to this pass because patriotic Indian left a vacuum in the field of political thought and action, which was promptly occupied by the worst of the worst scum.

It may be a cliche but an engaged population is what makes the difference between the Indian of our dreams and India becoming another, oversized, TSP. That imperative doesn't go away if & when Modi wins or does not win.

[rajithn]

The last thing we need is muslims voting for BJP. I would much rather, they stay away from BJP and BJP stays away from them. This is their tested trick, when the chips are down, they invest on the opposite side also. So today they can give all fancy stats 10% muslims voted for BJP becos they did "blah ..." and did not speak about "xxx...". Whether they voted or not itself is suspect, but even if they did, I would prefer if they did not and BJP also should not seek their votes. The game is very simple

2014: 10% of the 14% (i.e) BJP got 1.4% vote from muslims which gave them incremental margin

2019: BJP netas amongst themselves get into a bidding war, lets do this so that muslims no longer oppose us and lets bump that number to 20%. So as a first step, lets ditch uniform civil code

2024: BJP neta: to get 30% of the muslim vote lets give voter ids to bangladeshis.

This is how the rot starts, BJP does not need muslim vote. Muslims will never vote BJP and even if they did, it is on their own accord. For the nation's sake lets keep the center-right party the way it is. Never ever give credence to these theories that 10-20% muslims votes for BJP. This will take us to a situation where we will have no main stream party to bank on for our interests.

+1. So eloquently put. Couldnt agree more. But i do believe NaMo knows this; he hasnt fallen for this in gujarat and i doubt if he is going to start doing this across Bharat.

[member_20317]

Can someone please explain how Sonia Gandhi was able to get her name removed from the Huffington Post List? What on earth happened?

I would assume that someone with so much money can pull a lot of strings

Or somebody on the outside, is looking out for their own after some other competing force of such somebody had played its hand.

Or it could just all be a CT. The reality could just as easily be that the Huffed ups got puffed up on a false information and then later they developed a conscience that they did not earlier have while printing the story and hence withdrew unsubstantiated report.

Points to ponder over -
Can people grow a conscience without first having followed it in similar earlier cases?
Why didn't the Huffed ups come up with a best judgement assessment and instead straightaway withdrew their case? and
If printing is a message to relevant quarters then why cannot withdrawing a message not be a message to relevant quarters?

[rajithn]

Or somebody on the outside, is looking out for their own after some other competing force of such somebody had played its hand.

Or it could just all be a CT. The reality could just as easily be that the Huffed ups got puffed up on a false information and then later they developed a conscience that they did not earlier have while printing the story and hence withdrew unsubstantiated report.

Points to ponder over -
Can people grow a conscience without first having followed it in similar earlier cases?
Why didn't the Huffed ups come up with a best judgement assessment and instead straightaway withdrew their case? and
If printing is a message to relevant quarters then why cannot withdrawing a message not be a message to relevant quarters?

It was just bad 'journalism'. When they tried to defend themselves and named the sources, they found that those very sources had instead referenced them as a source on their websites.

[muraliravi]

The last thing we need is muslims voting for BJP. I would much rather, they stay away from BJP and BJP stays away from them. This is their tested trick, when the chips are down, they invest on the opposite side also. So today they can give all fancy stats 10% muslims voted for BJP becos they did "blah ..." and did not speak about "xxx...". Whether they voted or not itself is suspect, but even if they did, I would prefer if they did not and BJP also should not seek their votes. The game is very simple

2014: 10% of the 14% (i.e) BJP got 1.4% vote from muslims which gave them incremental margin

2019: BJP netas amongst themselves get into a bidding war, lets do this so that muslims no longer oppose us and lets bump that number to 20%. So as a first step, lets ditch uniform civil code

2024: BJP neta: to get 30% of the muslim vote lets give voter ids to bangladeshis.

This is how the rot starts, BJP does not need muslim vote. Muslims will never vote BJP and even if they did, it is on their own accord. For the nation's sake lets keep the center-right party the way it is. Never ever give credence to these theories that 10-20% muslims votes for BJP. This will take us to a situation where we will have no main stream party to bank on for our interests.

+1. So eloquently put. Couldnt agree more. But i do believe NaMo knows this; he hasnt fallen for this in gujarat and i doubt if he is going to start doing this across Bharat.

I hope so. As i said before, we need to create a pressure group to make sure that Namo does not go astray. That will ensure both goals, one: he sticks to the right agenda and as a secondary effect this automatically ensure that muslims wont vote for BJP.

[Neela]

OK so when I was listening to the clip of MMS yesterday I did feel a little quesy when the words were uttered.Today, mediacrooks feels the same.
MMS said

.. we cannot underestimate the power of the opposition to unsettle the ship _of the state_

Now what does that mean? Is he saying that it is only Congress that can represent the state & the opposition cannot? Considering how the Oppn has been treated in the last few years, that comes as no surprise. This shows that democratic processes dont mean nothing to him. Staying in power is everything.
I have been telling this again & again. MMS is silent but he is firmly with all the tactics of Congress & has his tacit approval. Waiting for the day he steps down as PM & my abuse will start.

Edit: Just bought the book "Dr. Manmohan Singh Decade of decay for Rs.310" .

[VikramS]

Guys can you keep this talk of not letting NaMo go astray to after he becomes PM?
And have some faith in him.

[member_22539]

^+1 Do not doubt your only hope for now.

[Rahul Mehta]

RoyG:2011 Census hasn't been released yet. Issue also seems to be going around twitter a bit. I have a feeling hindus have dipped below 70%. Im curious as to how Modi will deal with this issue.

kittoo: 10% decline in 10 years? While I do have doubts that Hindus might be below 75%, 70% seems a little too much.

Rahul Mehta: I posted this facebook status today, and I dont know if that triggered twitterati to take up this issue

https://www.facebook.com/mehtarahulc/po ... 0255716922

Apparently, census data has been out. But religion related data has withheld. And BJP leaders have not made any demand to release religion data in census. The data could have been released in jan-2012.

Now I have self-imposed one post per day limit. It is due to anti-RM-elements. So I will explain tomorrow why BJP leaders didnt demand release of religion data till date.

Hints :

1. Who benefits if data had come in jan-2012

2. Who benefits if data comes in jan-2014 and not before?

3. Who benefits if data comes in jun-2014 and no before?

4. Who has power to force BJP MPs to remain silent?

Added later :

5. It is very much related with NaMo's becoming , and it is NOT OST

I bring a relevant bad news --- that GoI = Congress has withheld religion\language census 2011. And I also bring a worse news that BJP\AAP leaders have been silent on it. And instead of pulling collars of BJP\AAP leaders and guessing their motives, what we see here is e-mud-sligging on the messenger = me !! Well folks, save your e-mud. Even since I arrived on BRF in year 2001 some dozen years ago, it was proven and accepted by all that I am bad bad bad bad . So you will gain nothing by throwing e-mud on me. Instead, spend time on guessing why RSS, VHP, BJP apex has gone silent on so many issue.

So why are AAP\BJP leaders silent?

Why AAP-leaders dont demand census-2011-relgious data is crystal clear. This party depends on media-coverage which is paid by Missionaries, Saudi Arabia and MNC-owners. Why Congress is delaying data release is also clear. Now lets focus on why BJP leaders are silent, and how it is related NaMo's becoming

The dirty trick started in year 2010, when census decided to collect 100s of useless parameters like whether house has 24 hr running water, whether they store water in fridge or plastic pot or steel pot or mud pot, whether they have car or cycle at home etc etc. This was done so that data gathering takes much longer time. Census should confine to name, age, sex, marital status, RELIGION, CASTE, language, number of kids etc. There is no need to add all sorts of parameters, because they dont have any political value and they can be obtained by sampling and not census. BJP , VHP, RSS leaders remained silent when this nonsense was going on. Why ? Read on.

So data gathering which otherwise would have been over in 6 months took 1 year. after then, census dept used ultra high methods to aggregate, and which further delayed. And finally when data came out, silliest parameter was given like how household stores water, but religion was skipped !!! And yet BJP , VHP, RSS leaders didnt mutter a huff. Why?

Lets who benefits from delay

1. If the data comes in jun-2014, then Congress\AAP benefit

2. If the data had come in jan-2012, the whole nation would have benefited , as activists would have rightly panicked, and the nonsense you saw at Janter Manter in apr-2011 would have ended and become nationalist movement to expel Bangladeshi and control population of all religions

3. If the data comes in jan-2014, then nation lost 2 years, but BJP leaders gain, as because panick will now translate into votes for NaMo or who-so-ever is the PM candidate!!

So BJP leaders saw their interest and kept silence on the delay.

But what makes BJP leaders so sure that Congress will release the data in jan-2014.

Basically, now all three parties BJP, Congress and AAP are dwarfs. The decision of when to release religion data will be taken by MNC-owners. Because they own the media and they own the Supreme judges. If any tall leader of Congress, BJP, AAP releases the data or demands the data without approval of MNC-owners , then MNC-owners will first via paid-media throw mud on him and then via paid Supreme judges will get him imprisoned. So no tall leader will dare to release\demand data or even file RTI or PIL on this issue directly or via NGOs like VHP\RSS and 10s of NGOs they have. Why cant leaders use NGOs? Because MNC-owners know which NGO belongs to which leader. So if any NGO demands this data, the leader who owns that NGO will lose his head.

The MNC-owners will soon decide whether they want to help NaMo or not. If MNC-owners wish help NaMo, they will release religion data in jan-2014. So every Hindu will sh1t bricks and run like Milkha Singh to vote for NaMo. And if MNC-owners decide not to help NaMo, then the data will come in jun-2014. In any case, national interest are damaged due to the delay.

I have been demanding release of religion data since jan-2012, with whatever limited resources I have. And despite all local VHP/RSS/BJP workers agree with my demand, none could take any action what-so-ever. and their leaders insist on silence on this issue.

====

Now lets look at alternative reasons why BJP leaders decide to remain silent on delay of release of religion data, despite the fact it can only benefit them. One postor says that media will portray BJP in bad light. Well, BJP leaders can always use dozens of NGOs they own and make demand via them. This way, everyone will know that BJP leaders made this demand, but none can prove. Second, every Hindu voter will appreciate this demand. So BJP will only gain. And in case, if party leaders are so scared of media-men, then you almost agreed with my point that party-leaders are subdued by MNC-owners because MNC-owners own all these mediamen.

In any case, Congress has royally damaged national interest by delaying the data release , and BJP leaders' silence shows they are highly compromised.

=====

The last thing we need is muslims voting for BJP. I would much rather, they stay away from BJP and BJP stays away from them. This is their tested trick, when the chips are down, they invest on the opposite side also. So today they can give all fancy stats 10% muslims voted for BJP becos they did "blah ..." and did not speak about "xxx...". Whether they voted or not itself is suspect, but even if they did, I would prefer if they did not and BJP also should not seek their votes. The game is very simple

2014: 10% of the 14% (i.e) BJP got 1.4% vote from muslims which gave them incremental margin

2019: BJP netas amongst themselves get into a bidding war, lets do this so that muslims no longer oppose us and lets bump that number to 20%. So as a first step, lets ditch uniform civil code

2024: BJP neta: to get 30% of the muslim vote lets give voter ids to bangladeshis.

This is how the rot starts, BJP does not need muslim vote. Muslims will never vote BJP and even if they did, it is on their own accord. For the nation's sake lets keep the center-right party the way it is. Never ever give credence to these theories that 10-20% muslims votes for BJP. This will take us to a situation where we will have no main stream party to bank on for our interests.

AWMTA . And IMO a bigger than "muslims voting for NaMo" is "MNC-owners and Missionaries helping NaMo". Please note that Congress though started as British puppet had become reasonably patriotic in 1940s. But later, due to company of British, and then Americans and then Missionaries, it became what it is today. (British = Americans = MNC-owners in my lingo). And same is now happening with BJP, or it may have already happened.

[Rahul Mehta]

Can census data be withheld by government even in parts? Like any government activity, people have participated in it so why this holding back. ....

Rahul Mehta: why BJP leaders didnt demand release of religion data till date.
.....

RajeshA: It's one thing to have the data, it's another thing to have a plan what to do with it! Such data cuts both ways. If the Hindus are shown to have shrunk to say 70%, then there is going to be a huge uproar and the whole narrative would change to the conversion race and demographic explosion! Would BJP want to run in Lok Sabha elections with conversion being the sole focus? They would not be able to avoid that once the data comes out. It is going to be very divisive. So would that be better suited to run an election campaign on? Hardly.

The claim of Hindus that India belongs to them and they have the right to determine the course of India's destiny is often based on the fact that still 80% of Indians are Hindus. Does Hindutva want to jeopardize that? Hardly.

If a huge increase in conversion is shown, again organizations like VHP would have to answer for it, why have they allowed such proselytization. Why are they sitting on their lazy butts? Would they want to answer that? Hardly. There is only one plan. Get power and then try to change the situation from inside, try to win back lost territory from that vantage point, and try to do that without causing whole of India to explode.

....
I want to graduate BSc (BS Conspiracy theories)

First of all, there is a reason why UPA CON Govt. did not release the numbers.

Secondly, if BJP demands the numbers, there will be a campaign in dhimmi media how evil yindoos are communalizing the situation. So now all english educated masses will detest Modi/BJP and vote for Kujliwal.

So now blame BJP for not asking.

I have see your patterns in every issue:

1. Start with a valid premise
2. Never touch CONGis/SONIA/UPA who are working hard to create the situation
3. Create a CT against BJP/Modi and how they are servants of MNCs/missionaries

BJP/Modi are first target for any Nehruvian eco system bashing campaign and equal equal theory propagated by them. RSS bashing is 24x7 theme of our media which was never in the news until 90s when Morarji/Charan Singh kind of jokers used it a pretext to fight amongst each other and collapse the Janata Govt.

..... I don't know your agenda but you think every thing can be changed by a law. Every law has to be enforced by Govt which has been hijacked by vested folks who have no interest in India.

By creating more and more CTs for everything and blaming BJP instead of attacking the source of the problem (DIEnasty and eco-system they created), I don't know what you are achieving. Based on website, I know you care for the nation. ... But I think you should put your mind to how do we fight this media and influence people instead of blaming BJP for every thing. ...

You all have valid questions . But anti-RM-elements go bershek when I reply . So I have made 1 post per day limit, and I cant cover all issues in one post. So I can reply if you post Q on my facebook http://facebook.com/MehtaRahulC . I cant reply here.

[rajithn]

Guys can you keep this talk of not letting NaMo go astray to after he becomes PM?
And have some faith in him.

+1.

While i agree with Muraliravis earlier post, i am sure we dont have to start talking about pressure groups. NaMo hasnt needed any pressure groups in Gujarat and surely he doesnt need one for the whole country. From what i have observed about him, he has his agenda set and is relentless in pursuing that.

[muraliravi]

Guys can you keep this talk of not letting NaMo go astray to after he becomes PM?
And have some faith in him.

+1.

While i agree with Muraliravis earlier post, i am sure we dont have to start talking about pressure groups. NaMo hasnt needed any pressure groups in Gujarat and surely he doesnt need one for the whole country. From what i have observed about him, he has his agenda set and is relentless in pursuing that.

I agree, I am not asking everyone to punish him for a crime he has not committed. All I am asking is "Have a offline database for starting the pressure group ready". So that if at all things go bad, it can be activated without much delay.

[muraliravi]

AWMTA . And IMO a bigger than "muslims voting for NaMo" is "MNC-owners and Missionaries helping NaMo". Please note that Congress though started as British puppet had become reasonably patriotic in 1940s. But later, due to company of British, and then Americans and then Missionaries, it became what it is today. (British = Americans = MNC-owners in my lingo). And same is now happening with BJP, or it may have already happened.

Agreed. But we need to map each of his connections to figure out the missionary penetration in Namo's / BJP circle if it has happened at all. We need to do it at a level of detail where every BJP MP is mapped.

[nachiket]

Can people wait for Modi to at least win the election before coming up with wild CTs of missionaries and MNCs helping Modi? Coming up with these ridiculous theories right now can only end up helping his adversaries, namely the Congress, to stop him from ever winning. Or is that your true intention?

[muraliravi]

Can people wait for Modi to at least win the election before coming up with wild CTs of missionaries and MNCs helping Modi? Coming up with these ridiculous theories right now can only end up helping his adversaries, namely the Congress, to stop him from ever winning. Or is that your true intention?

I agree that talking about MNC and missionaries at this stage is too early. But putting pressure on Namo on the mullah aspect will only do him good, it will stop him from reaching his jinnah moment. He has already praised maulana azad (being a true RSS guy, he would only know too well, that maulana azad was just a wolf in sheep's clothes)

For example, in the UP rallies, i think barring one, Vande Mataram was being omitted in his speeches. A lot of guys put pressure on twitter and other means (niti central etc..) and it helped, we started seeing vande mataram again in jammu and delhi

[vivek.rao]

Kings of sting operations Cobrapost, Gulail, Media Sarkar low on credibility, prefer "non-profit" status

Around six months ago, Cobrapost transferred the ownership of its website to a society Forum for Media and Literature (FML) which is registered under the Societies Registration Act XXI of 1860, a British era provision under which most of the NGOs in the country are registered. Till this transition, Cobrapost.com was owned by a company called Sri Bharadwaaj Media Private Ltd (SBMPL) in which Bahal held 97% through another company Red Tiger Productions in which he has 99%. A foreign investor holds a small stake in Sri Bharadwaaj Media.

Cobrapost, Bahal says, has received about Rs 21.86 lakh in donations so far. He said lawyers Fali Nariman, Prashant Bhushan, broadcast media editor Ashutosh, polling agency C-Voter are among those who have donated money.

The website is currently owned by a company called Roving Media Private Ltd but Khetan says he is in the process of setting up a non-profit Section 25 company, a trust or a society to manage and run the operations of Gulail.com.

Khetan says he has tried speaking with various investors without any headway and even approached Google Ads to see if they could get some revenues through that route. "But since we failed to come up with a viable business model we are in the process of winding it (company) up. Till date we have not earned a penny in revenues nor is there any hope of any earnings," he says. The idea is to now "fund our journalism through charity".

Khetan says he has tried speaking with various investors without any headway and even approached Google Ads to see if they could get some revenues through that route. "But since we failed to come up with a viable business model we are in the process of winding it (company) up. Till date we have not earned a penny in revenues nor is there any hope of any earnings," he says. The idea is to now "fund our journalism through charity".

The newest kid on the block as far as investigative journalism goes is Media Sarkar, which its founder Anuranjan Jha claims, is self-funded. "I fund it with my other income" says Jha. He said he runs, along with a partner, a wedding channel called Shagun TV, owned by Vertent Media Soft Private Ltd.

Media Sarkar shot into limelight a few weeks back after it published a sting operation on the Aam Aadmi Party. Jha too is considering setting up a company or a non-profit society following the footsteps of Cobrapost.

He too has faced charges about motive. After the recent Media Sarkar sting on the Aam Aadmi Party days before the crucial Delhi state polls, AAP leaders, including lawyer Prashant Bhushan, slammed Media Sarkar, making allegations about the motive of the investigative portal.

"They did selective editing and it was an attempted hatchet job. I have good reason to believe that it was funded by either of the political parties. It was obviously done with a motive," Bhushan told ET in an emai

However, Bhushan is willing to walk the extra mile to underwrite Cobrapost's Bahal's reputation. "Aniruddha was persecuted by the BJP after operation West End when he was at Tehelka so maybe he has a slight bias but I've found them to do good stories. They won't do anything unethical. I have known him for a long time and have known him to be above board," says Bhushan.

[vivek.rao]

Let me tell you one story from the USofA. Back in the slave holder days the current day leftist "good guy Democrats*" were the white-racist bad guys. This continued until 1964 civil rights movement which resulted in the then democratic president Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) signing into effect the civil rights law. At that moment, every racist bad guy got pissed of with the Democratic leadership and deserted to Republican party thereby changing the whole nature of both parties in about 5 - 10 years.

There is a big big danger of the that deserting phenomena happening in India (albeit for the exactly opposite reason), if we assume that appeasing someone is the sole way to attract them, then we are jumping into the same crap hole as what CON men have lead us into. Which means BJP will soon be filled with CONgi deserters who will bring their rabid ideology of appeasement along with them.

Modi/BJP should strictly focus on good fair governance with fairness to all and appeasement to none, nothing more nothing less.

* Even the most lefty current day Democrat would be more rightwing that most so called rightwing Indians. The ideological gulf between the US left and the fake CONgi left can be filled with a pacific-ocean sized void

Isn't that what Modi doing in Gujarat?

We will not discriminate in any economic affairs. I will even go to extra mile to get you roads/schools/infrastructure but won't appease you on religious lines. No separate scholarships/aid/reservations for minorities. You are not an Citizen++. I won't even give tickets for the sake of giving tickets unless you can win.

[vishvak]

Pressure groups are part and parcel of democratic politics.

In fact, there could be many pressure groups in many countries to avoid lopsided and ignorant politics and better situation in democracy.

I wonder why there are not many pressure groups in USA which is first world country.

[ashashi]

The decision of when to release religion data will be taken by MNC-owners.

Who are these "MNC-owners"?
Elaborate.
Name them.

[Karan M]

Edited...OT

[Rahul M]

enough about this MNC business already.

[Sanku]

enough about this MNC business already.

And here I thought you didnt mind.

[vivek.rao]

muraliravi makes a great point. I hadn't thought of it that way.
That's probably how Congress became a sekoolar party.
Once Muslims begin to support a party, they play the carrot game "Give us benefits or we will withdraw support". The BJP by then would have become dependent or used to Muslim support and cannot afford to have that taken away and might cave in.

No doubt BJP should not court Muslims or any caste/community on the basis of "Give us this for our community then we will give our votes or what did you do for us?"

If Muslims/Kasmiris/any community want opportunities/growth and their demands are based on the interests of nation and/or individual they should be welcome to support but if they want to play the game of we need our boys should be released from jail because for you to get our votes, they are a threat to the nation.

Modi did not let even some selfish VHP/RSS leaders to play this game in Gujarat. I hope he will stick to the stand in future too

[vishvak]

That is fine.

But the voting has to be at individual level and secret ballot is required.

So if a vote banker claims post-election, at various places, that his vote bank gifted votes per
x% for party 1, y% for party 2, .. .. ..
and also claims n% in negative voting for each candidate
all the above in mutually exclusive and mutually secretive manner,

Then he can manipulate system for gains in exclusive parts in completely disregard of voting.

So there has to be some kind of total denial of vote banking in secret ballot as it should be primarily.

[vivek.rao]

[vivek.rao]

That is fine.

But the voting has to be at individual level and secret ballot is required.

So if a vote banker claims post-election, at various places, that his vote bank gifted votes per
x% for party 1, y% for party 2, .. .. ..
and also claims n% in negative voting for each candidate
all the above in mutually exclusive and mutually secretive manner,

Then he can manipulate system for gains in exclusive parts in completely disregard of voting.

So there has to be some kind of total denial of vote banking in secret ballot as it should be primarily.

100% agree

India first. No appeasement of any group.

You can't let a caste/community/religious group to dictate the policies of nation.

[ashashi]

enough about this MNC business already.

I avoid reading long posts on politics, for they usually lack substance. Broke that rule today, started reading one such post but had to abandon it halfway thru.

How about a conspiracies thread?

[ashashi]

Good actor.

[vishvak]

..
Good actor.

going OT are we? It is kind of contradictory to not read long posts and then call it names.

No point for people having to write an essay for each point, or be called names for not writing essay for each point.

[ashashi]

That guy is a really good actor. He's got future.

II usually avoid reading long posts because in my experience most of them lack substance. But, there are a few very informative long posts in this thread.

Now, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[vishvak]

Ashiashi, are you not from china and how do you consider anything anyway about elections and especially finer points of democracy. This is already list of OT posts here.

[svenkat]

Dated article by TCA Srinivasa Raghavan from 2007.I found it interesting and relevant.
Modi and the Ramanujam Test

A K Ramanujam put forth a simple idea: while Westerners function on moral absolutes, Indians function on contextual morality.
Some readers will recall that this is the nth time I am writing this. I beg their indulgence for repeating myself yet again. But I do believe that it is important for understanding many of the things that we Indians do, and, even more importantly, the way we think, especially about issues of morality.

It is important today because of our diverse and strange reactions to Narendra Modi. He has a lot going for him -- leadership, demagoguery, a state under his belt, tacit and revealed Hindu approval, etc. One also gets the sense that India is getting tired of centrist politics and is ready for a decisive shift rightwards.

Be that as it may, in the mid-1980s, the well-known American Indologist from Chicago, McKim Marriott, edited a volume called Imagining India: India through Indian eyes. In it was an essay by the late poet A K Ramanujam titled Is there an Indian Way of Thinking? That essay remains, in my view, the best ever written on the subject of how Indians decide on the morality of their actions.

Ramanujam put forth a simple proposition. He said that unlike the West, which functions on the basis of moral absolutes, Indians function on the basis of contextual morality.

Thus, most often, for the majority of Indians, an action is right or wrong depending on the context in which that action is situated. So in some contexts it is perfectly all right even to kill your brother. Even the Gita tells you so.
When I first wrote about this essay, many people protested. Ramanujam simply could not have said this, they said. I had to mail at least a dozen copies of the essay in order to convince the skeptics. Only two replied.

If we apply the Ramanujam Test, as I like to call it, everything falls into place. Thus, in the context of the partition, it was moral to reassure India's Muslims that they were safe here, whence the charge of appeasement.

In the context of Pakistan and its million follies, many Hindus believe that it is moral to attack them. In the context of the inequities of the caste system, it was all right to deprive the upper castes via reservations, never mind that such deprivation is itself immoral. In the context of domestic political exigencies, it was all right to take money from the KGB but not from the CIA. In Nandigram it was all right, said the CPM, to kill villagers because they belonged to the Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist).

We can multiply these examples, but the point is clear. The absence of moral absolutism enables us to justify everything. It clouds our collective as well as individual judgment and, at the most trivial, we get the rubbish we see on TV. But sometimes it is not trivial, especially when the political context becomes the moral justification for the actions of people, the government, its agents and even some institutions of the State - when a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake, Soharabuddin, Afzal Guru, etc.

As far as political morality of present dilemma is concerned, I think the original sin lies in our having adopted and accepted identity politics as being a normal and legitimate instrument for pressing group claims - but only as long as such politics is confined to caste. So we say it is fine to have caste-based political parties but not religion-based ones.

We apply different rules to the two - even if the end-result is the same: fomenting disaffection between communities. How does it matter to the citizen if state persecution is based on either caste or religion? Isn't persecution the same for everyone?

This moral ambivalence is what Ramanujam talked about. For example, however strong and morally justified the case may be for the empowerment of the oppressed castes and for what the Americans call affirmative action, is it a logical and morally justifiable step from there to have caste-based political parties that incite hatred?
We have internalised identity-based politics to such an extent that not only do the jholawallah intellectuals make a nice living from it, we don't even hark back a mere 102 years ago, when it all started, for it was in 1905 when India took the decisive step towards identity-based politics when W A J Archbold, Principal of the Anglo-Mohammedan Oriental College in Aligarh, helped fix that fateful meeting of Muslims landowners with Lord Minto, the Viceroy.

Later he helped them draft the letter that demanded separate electorates. Muhammad Ali, the great secular leader, described the whole thing as a "command performance". Yet has any Indian historian enquired who this guy Archbold was? How did a Cambridge don writing about French poetry become the Principal at this college? Who suggested his name? Why did his predecessor resign? Is there a biography? No, sir, not one. The man has become a mere footnote even though there are a million questions to be answered about him.

Therefore, first we got the Muslim League, next the Justice Party in 1918 (the DMK's fore-runner) and so on until after independence, when a whole clutch of caste-based parties sprang up. What great moral principle are all these parties based on? Think about it and you will see that Narendra Modi is our own creation, of liberals, conservatives, fascists, communists and every other man jack of us. He is not the problem, we all are.

[Shanmukh]

Folks - I am making a list of the countries that have denied visa to NaMo or have/had placed a diplomatic boycott on him.

US - denied visa in 2005. Visa denial policy still in existence.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... arat-riots

UK - diplomatic boycott until 2012.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/o ... endra-modi

EU - diplomatic boycott until 06/03/13
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/germa ... ues-338646

Germany in particular lifted its diplomatic boycott in March 2013.

I could not find any links about other countries. Does anyone know if Australia/New Zealand/Canada (well, any other countries as well) also had diplomatic boycotts on NaMo?

[Mort Walker]

What time will counting start for Rajasthan, MP, Chattisgarh & Delhi? Starting 8AM on Dec. 8th and finishing by noon? And what about Mizoram?

I'm trying to see what effect Modi has on consolidating votes for the BJP. We have to be careful and separate the anti-incumbancy factor and basic commodity price rise.
Can Modi increase BJP vote share by 10%?

[SaiK]

The khaan democracy is a wonderful study material... there are lot of loopholes in that democracy as well... well, if at all in the near future we should consider studying what is the problem with others, then khaan data is already there.. there may not be union or intersection in the needs seen now, but when things get a baseline to shoot sounding rockets for economy, politics, institutional changes, and when the stage is set, it is not modi, you or me.. it comes from the system we are establishing for the future.

so, help modi to focus on the system rather petty politics... pardon the wrong doers, and make them participate for the systemic change.

[ashashi]

Ashiashi, are you not from china and how do you consider anything anyway about elections and especially finer points of democracy. This is already list of OT posts here.

Relax Pal.
My moniker and the chinese guy's moniker are visually similar.

I bet you can read this very well.

I cdnuolt bleveiee taht I cloud aulacity uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervy lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh, and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

Can we now get back to the topic?

[RajeshA]

Dated article by TCA Srinivasa Raghavan from 2007.I found it interesting and relevant.
Modi and the Ramanujam Test

We apply different rules to the two - even if the end-result is the same: fomenting disaffection between communities. How does it matter to the citizen if state persecution is based on either caste or religion? Isn't persecution the same for everyone?

Short answer is Jāti is hereditary, Religion is predatory. Jāti subdivides the nation. Religion splits the nation.