Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Dec 2012 19:02

shyam

no disagreements - sad that others misuse it and make it tough for genuine users

I agree with you - a fee would seperate the genuine from the abusers

might be worth writing to the airlines

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Dec 2012 19:28

in american dept stores is it known that obese people (who should be walking) use the motorized wheelchairs and deprive the genuinely old and needy? I heard someone ranting about it once.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 Dec 2012 16:07

Rs 450 cr new terminal for Cochin International airport

Kochi: The Cochin International Airport Ltd (CIAL) at Nedumbassery will soon have a third terminal at a cost of Rs450 crore. The two-storied terminal, with an area of 15 lakh sq ft, has been designed along the lines of the traditional temple architecture of the state.

The new terminal will have arrival facilities downstairs and departures on the first floor. The departure terminal will also have aero-bridge connectivity, apart from 15 parking bays for flights. It will have the capacity to handle 4,000 passengers in one hour and has been designed taking into account the projected customer base of 2025. The pre-qualification tenders for the work will be invited soon and construction could begin in four months, said CIAL managing director V.J. Kurien.

When the new terminal is constructed, the current international terminal would become the domestic terminal and the current domestic one would be set apart for chartered flights. Public can express their ideas and suggestions about the new terminal on CIAL website.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 18 Dec 2012 22:31

thanks Dileep

hope it has the same quaint look as the existing ones

they can go all modern inside

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2012 07:45

the current domestic+intl has a very long frontage. one of the biggest verandahs I have ever seen.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Dec 2012 11:23

The new one is a finger pier design. The terminal front is at 90 deg to the current terminals/runway, and a finger pier extends to the back. The whole design is put online, and they have invited comments.

I liked the design.

The current domestic terminal (the first one to be built, in Kerala architecture theme) will be made into a general aviation terminal. The current international terminal will become domestic.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 21 Dec 2012 04:20

I like the separate levels for arrivals and departures, different from the current case where they are all on the same level and there's a rather confusing parking lot + entry/egress lane system that I hope they'll streamline better. I have not used the international terminal in a while, but the domestic side is a little dated now, though still in good shape.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Dec 2012 07:51

I somehow never liked the Kochi airport architecture very much. There was a model of it that I saw in one of Chicago museums long before it was built and it looked ok then. But the built out one looks more like a railway station. They should have gone for a fusion of Kerala styles done in steel and glass from the very beginning itself. Too much of opaque walls does make one claustrophobic walking through the long corridors. The current design should have been good for some small town airport, but not for a vibrant commercial capital for the state.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 21 Dec 2012 11:13

Bade wrote:Too much of opaque walls does make one claustrophobic walking through the long corridors.

Are you talking about the Cochin International Airport? I ask because I haven't seen any long corridors with opaque walls there.

True, the current domestic terminal have solid walls, wood frames with lattice glass etc. But by no means it is claustrophobic, as the halls are really big. And there are no corridors, other than the short way to the security check gates. The holding area has glass walls. The International terminal is really open.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Dec 2012 20:59

Yes, Kochi onlee. I have used the Intl arrival area mostly and do recollect walking through long corridors as recently as 6 months ago. I have no cribs on the efficiency of the airport and cleanliness. Just the finish is much to be desired, even interiors. It is functional and I only care about it mostly anyway. But they lost an opportunity in making a style statement too.

Hoping they rectify those with superior finish for the new one they are going to build. I have not been to the TVM one. Mom used it last year and said it was very "modern" looking.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 22 Dec 2012 01:46

Bade-saar, I remember a senior architect, who has a few signature projects under his belt and was a senior official with the Indian Institute of Architects, talk about the saga of Nedumbassery's existing design. The late Shree Karunakaran was in a tearing hurry and he gave the designing of the existing terminal at Nedumbassery to, KITCO! There was much opposition from the architects community of Kerala, since apparently these guys are ace-PWD types and has till that date, designed only bus stands. And as feared, they scaled up a design they are familiar with. Another such casualty in K-man's hurried style of decision making was the runway alignment. Apparently the 10 year meteorological wind pattern analysis was not taken into account for site selection or final alignment and K-man finally went with land availability. Net result are difficulties experienced, when landing in stormy conditions.

I recently heard from a senior gent in AAI that the upcoming Kannur airport is in an even more interesting situation, with rehabilitation housing getting already build and people moving in, before the alignment was finalized!! Finally, they found out(fortunately, this time, due to interventions of certain prominent malabar-origin pan-India business heavies

, they did the wind pattern analysis) that the best alignment, was through the spot where rehab houses are build! Net result is the "active runway" (or usable length) is far less than the actual physical length of the runway, due to safety reasons, which is a big wastage of precious land. Trivandrum has similar issues due to a place of worship of a certain community, when approaching for landing from South

But that is because the place of worship was already there for decades before the expansion and nothing could be done, unlike a greenfield venture like Kannur.

But K-man is K-man and he rode roughshod over the objections, to get the project off the ground. Kudos to him on that front. Despite his blind diktats, one wishes he was still around, when so many crucial projects are hanging in Kerala. The current guy is hopeless.

As for Trivandrum airport, your mom is right. The interiors and exteriors of terminal building are really nice and worldclass, though there are maintenance issues that are not taken care immediately. But then only the terminal and apron design are top notch, because they got Pascal + Watson to do the whole thing, since Central Govt was toying with the idea of a divestment of non-metro airports as a Phase II and they wanted global bidders to get attracted to swanky terminals. But once the divestment plan fell through, after Praful Patel, the remaining parts of the projects was given out to random people. Check the landscaping - shabby Kerala PWD chic personified by leaky flower pots on two bricks. Plus poor concessionaires inside the terminal for food, gifts etc. And city-side traffic management is no way as spiffy as say, BIAL.

Ultimately you are right about caring only about functionality - the terminal can be of stone or mud or glass, I just want to reach my final destination asap

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Dec 2012 01:58

I heard a palakkad airport being talked about. true? where?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Dec 2012 11:58

SaiK wrote:I heard a palakkad airport being talked about. true? where?

I don't think this is true. But yes, there is a now a new craze in Kerala to have airports at every district (and perhaps later at every Panchayat). What I am surprised is that land is available for green field airports. People are also quite happy to see airports coming up. The same crowd would through tantrums when it comes to land acquisition for railway or for roads

.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Dec 2012 20:07

^it shows the state of economy, and gelf relationship.. everyone wants to hop and go point to point to make money.. not a bad wish at all. roads and rails affect everyone.. it takes inches and meters away from everyone's life. kerala has already suffered on land reforms once. many have become poor because of this.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 22 Dec 2012 20:25

seems a waste of money

its 60 km from coimbatore - why the hell would you need a airport here

we always went via coimbatore

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Dec 2012 21:48

roads are pretty bad in general speak. people always want convenience.. i think they are not asking for an international airport. just a small green field one... mostly small traffic.

besides southern air command (tvm) has very little bases to speak. they could think adding few more in a joint mil-civil venture. kerala can have couple of more air bases..

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 23 Dec 2012 01:43

Small airports are fine as long as they do not seek regular landings. Maybe more people will fly their own small planes solo into these backyard airports like in the US.

At least for KL regular air traffic the three which operate now suffices. OK, one more in Kannur might alleviate needs of tourism for Northern parts perhaps.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Dec 2012 03:37

http://www.hindu.com/2011/05/21/stories ... 250900.htm
These mini-airports are meant to operate Air Transport Rack (ATR) flights of 65-75 seats and helicopter taxi services.

Short haul flights

These short haul regional airliners could connect the main cities to the State capital and the international airports of Kochi, Karipur and Thiruvanathapuram

dated, but that is the latest I googled.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Dec 2012 12:10

The saga of uncontrollable, privileged and moronic people continues.

Lethargic pilots blocking runways in for trouble

NEW DELHI: Pilots used to vacating runways at a leisurely pace and then forcing other aircraft supposed to land to take a sharp go-around are now in for trouble.

The AAI ( Airports Authority of India) is getting a software to analyze aircraft movement time on runways, taxiways and the technical area. If a particular pilot is found to be habitually lethargic in clearing runways, then the matter will be reported to his or her airline for corrective training. Similarly, if an airline is found guilty on this count the authority will 'discipline' it.

AAI was forced to take this step as aircraft movement in India is increasing while only Delhi has three runways: two parallel and one merging. Mumbai has a set of cross runways where independent movement is not possible. All other airports in India have only one runway and are now finding it tough to handle the growing aircraft movement unless runway capacity is optimized.

"An aircraft is cleared to come into land with some estimation by the air traffic controller (ATC) that the aircraft on the runway before it will vacate it in a certain time. If the aircraft on runway fails to vacate the runway in time, then the incoming aircraft has no option but to go around — take off go around (TOGA) in technical language. There is an alarming increase in this phenomenon. While it does not involve any risk, it means waste of time for airline, passengers along with unnecessary fuel burn," said a senior official.

AAI has always had data of runway, taxiway vacation time for all aircraft movement. But an alarming increase in TOGA has now led it to decide on deploying software to analyze the data to pull up and give corrective training to erring pilots or airlines. If someone does not listen even after this, the case can be referred to the Directorate General of Civil Aviation ( DGCA) too.

While the speed at which pilots taxi an aircraft on taxiways or moves on the runway is decided by them, ATCs always ask them to expedite movement to minimize runway occupancy time. This is a common practice world over with air traffic increasing and having more runways not being an easy option.

Mumbai, for instance, is now desperately short of runways and London is having a heated debate for a third runway at Heathrow for years due to environmental concerns.

A senior pilot said a particular private airline is notorious in India for slow runway vacation.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 26 Dec 2012 15:40

Plane Crash-Lands on Myanmar Road, 2 Killed

A flight packed with Christmas tourists crash-landed on a road in central Myanmar on Tuesday, killing at least two people and injuring 11, officials said.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Dec 2012 19:56

SaiK wrote:I heard a palakkad airport being talked about. true? where?

If I am right the centre of Palakad and Coimbatore are 40KM apart and Palakkad outer areas extend to the TN border 23KM from Coimbatore, Sulur may be 10-15 Km away and they want a seperate airport?

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Dec 2012 08:38

Handsome pay packages lure AI pilots to Gulf

Lured by fatty pay packages and "better" work conditions, flag carrier Air India's pilots are taking a flight to the Gulf airlines leading to a severe shortage of commanders, sources said.

The Gulf carriers were offering over "40 per cent more money" than Air India, leading the pilots to make a beeline to serve them, sources claimed.

"Many commanders on Boeing 777s have already quit Air India and moved to airlines like Qatar Airways, Etihad and Emirates in the last few months. As many as 35 more commanders are all set to take up assignments with these airlines in the next 2-3 months," sources told PTI.

Such a drain could lead to "a substantial shortfall of commanders," they said. Air India currently has around 115 commanders to operate the Boeing 777 fleet, comprising 15 B777-300 (Extended Range) and eight B777-200 (Long Range).

At the same time, of the 13 sacked pilots who are yet to be reinstated, five are B777 commanders. Last Sunday, Air India Mumbai-Riyadh flight was delayed by 20 hours, leading to chaos at the city airport.

The airline had attributed this inordinate delay to flight crew shortage. "B777 operations require a set of 7-8 pilots per aircraft and for ultra-long haul it goes up to 10 per aircraft. Then the carrier also need to keep around 10 per cent of its total pilots strength in the reserve pool to make do for the pilots on medical or other leaves," the sources said.|

Carriers like Qatar and Etihad were offering around Rs 7.50-8.30 lakh per month to these pilots as compared to Rs 4-6 lakh per month being paid by Air India to its commanders, they said.

Moreover, free education of three children upto 21 years, free medical and housing are the added attraction for these pilots to join Gulf carriers, sources claimed.

Wow, 8L/month + free education+ free housing + free tickets for traveling?

Damn, the IT-vity arena looks like a real poor cousin despite it supposed to be the "well paying" field.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 08 Jan 2013 09:25

While our pilots fly abroad, our airports stay well rooted to the ground.

Cost overruns turn big worry for Navi Mumbai Airport project

The proposed second airport for Mumbai metropolitan region is to be developed as an alternate airport to the existing Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport, which is expected to touch its optimum capacity of 40 million passengers by 2014. The project envisages the first of the three phases of the new airport to be completed at a cost of Rs 10,000 crore by 2014. Cost overruns and inflationary spikes due to delay in executing the project have resulted in the project cost skyrocketing by 10% annually.

Any investment made by companies to complete the project will have to factor in a UDF of Rs 4,000 per (air) ticket. That raises serious issues about the viability of the project," the same official explained.

There is a serious concern within the ministry of civil aviation whether the project will garner any interest from bidders at all," the aviation ministry official added. In fact, the ministry even mooted an idea recently to move the project site nearer to Pune, which would benefit both Mumbai and Pune. The idea, however, had few takers from the state government.

There is a sense that Indian airport tariffs are among the highest in the world and a dip in demand of about 15% monthon-month this year is attributed to high fares and airport tariffs. Recently, the civil aviation ministry had asked airports in Delhi and Mumbai to do away with the airport development fee.

But that move could not be upheld as developers of these airports had overshot the original cost estimates and needed recovery for the gap in funding.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 08 Jan 2013 22:33

selfishly I am ok with it taking time as it takes me 20 minutes to get home from here

the present airport spruced up is fairly ok now - once all the construction is cleaned up it might be better.
put some measures to make it painful for the 150 people who come to drop off one guy and it becomes even better.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 09 Jan 2013 11:47

SaiK wrote:I heard a palakkad airport being talked about. true? where?

No way.

Coimbatore airport to Palakkad town is 40km. Remember that new Bangaluru Airport is more than 50km away from many important places of Bangaluru. Kochi and Kozhikkode airports around 150km away.

BTW, from where did you get this rumor?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2013 08:29

deccan herald: btw if anyone is passing through BIAL, there is a small coffee counter on the verandah outside run by a couple of local boys. they offer plain coffee and coffee+chicory for a reasonable price. I found their coffee far better than ccday , so probably better than "illy" and "costa" chi chi coffee as well.

BIA terminal to start operations by mid-2013
Bangalore, Jan 9, 2013, DHNS:

The expansion of Terminal 1 (T1) of Bengaluru International Airport (BIA) is on track and it will be commercially operational by the middle of this year, Bangalore International Airport Limited (BIAL) Managing Director Sanjay Reddy said on Wednesday.

T1 will eventually handle 18 million passengers annually as against its old capacity of 12.5 million, and will spread across 1,34,000 sq m. Briefing reporters, the MD said the consortium was also working on the second terminal (T2) to position BIA as the Gateway of South India. Depending on the traffic growth in 2013, the construction of T2 will start. BIAL, in collaboration with State tourism department and Thomas Cook, has launched Kaapi Trail, a voyage of discovery of coffee growing regions of South India. “Thomas Cook, as exclusive travel partner, has created a diversity of unique travel packages covering leisure and heritage.

“Last year we offered the region’s coffee to our passengers at the airport, and the response surpassed our expectation. We promised to work on a concept wherein the passengers could physically go and experience the coffee growing regions of South India,” Reddy said.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 17 Jan 2013 11:28

Boeing insists that the 787 Dreamliner is safe.

Japan's two biggest airlines had already taken almost half the global fleet out of service, but the announcement by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) means 30 of the world's 50 Dreamliners have now been grounded.

The FAA action was prompted by a battery incident during an All Nippon Airways flight that resulted in an emergency landing in Japan on Wednesday, following another incident last week on an ANA 787 on the ground in Boston.

ANA and its rival Japan Airlines (JAL) - among Boeing's biggest customers for the Dreamliner - said they would ground their entire 787 fleets through Thursday at least, pending safety checks.

ANA has 17 Dreamliners and JAL has seven - almost half the 50 planes currently in operation worldwide. Boeing has orders for nearly 850.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 17 Jan 2013 11:31

Qantas working on new fares after combined Qantas-Emirates network receives an interim authorization to operate.

The proposed alliance involves an extensive codesharing arrangement, reciprocal frequent-flyer benefits and joint marketing, pricing and co-ordination on certain routes between the two carriers.

It is regarded as a key plank of Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce's plan to turn around the airline's struggling international arm, which lost $450 million in 2011/12.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jan 2013 22:19

All 787s Now Grounded, Await Inspection Protocol

Airlines around the world have grounded their Boeing 787s following the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s Wednesday emergency airworthiness directive (AD) that requires United Airlines to stop flying its six Dreamliners until it demonstrates the safety of the airplanes’ batteries. Hours later, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) adopted the AD, forcing Europe’s only 787 operator—Poland’s LOT—to ground its two airplanes. Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways had already grounded their fleets a day earlier, after the crew of an ANA 787 made an emergency landing in western Japan in response to a battery malfunction warning and the smell of smoke in the cabin.

On January 17 Qatar Airways officially responded to the AD, grounding all five of its airplanes, as did Chile’s LAN, which removed from service another three.

For its part, Boeing continued to “stand by” the overall integrity of the 787 and expressed confidence in its safety.

“The safety of passengers and crewmembers who fly aboard Boeing airplanes is our highest priority,” said Boeing chairman, president and CEO Jim McNerney in a statement.

“Boeing is committed to supporting the FAA and finding answers as quickly as possible. The company is working around the clock with its customers and the various regulatory and investigative authorities. We will make available the entire resources of the Boeing Company to assist.”

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Jan 2013 20:18

Lithium-Ion Batteries Emerge as Possible Culprit in Dreamliner Incidents

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) officials grounded Boeing's high-tech Dreamliner after battery electrolytes reportedly leaked from a lithium-ion battery onboard an All Nippon Airways flight on Wednesday. The liquid reportedly traveled through an electrical room floor to the outside of the aircraft, leaving burn marks around damaged areas.

I'm sure Boeing will have the issues fixed as these incidents, as serious as they are, are still teething problems with the aircraft and don't reflect an inherent design flaw. I'm sure Airbus has similar problems, but the corrupt Eurotrash are probably hiding their problems and bribing operators who fly them to not report the issues.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 19 Jan 2013 00:04

Mort Walker wrote:I'm sure Boeing will have the issues fixed as these incidents, as serious as they are, are still teething problems with the aircraft and don't reflect an inherent design flaw. I'm sure Airbus has similar problems, but the corrupt Eurotrash are probably hiding their problems and bribing operators who fly them to not report the issues.

Are you being sarcastic here?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 03:22

actually from what i read it could become a design flaw as the batteries are needed to power so much of the newer tech (ie control surfaces by electrical power rather than hydraulics) and reduce weight

if battery problem is not solved any soln which increases weight reduces the vaunted fuel efficiency and you are back to square one

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 19 Jan 2013 04:11

APU batteries should not increase weight. More than likely these batteries were not pressure-depressurization cycle tested.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 19 Jan 2013 06:17

Surya wrote:actually from what i read it could become a design flaw as the batteries are needed to power so much of the newer tech (ie control surfaces by electrical power rather than hydraulics) and reduce weight

if battery problem is not solved any soln which increases weight reduces the vaunted fuel efficiency and you are back to square one

The main battery also powers the pilots consoles in emergency. Like what you said, in other aircrafts, the electric power demand is much less. For e.g, in A380, the lithium batteries are used for powering lights on when the main power source fails. Here in 787, the power demanded is much more.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 07:27

mentions the need for this battery for the extra juice needed and keeping weight down

http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 78160.html

this article has details on the diff with a traditional aircraft

http://blog-admin.wired.com/autopia/201 ... grounding/

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 19 Jan 2013 07:32

Mort Walker wrote:APU batteries should not increase weight. More than likely these batteries were not pressure-depressurization cycle tested.

This is quite unlikely since wiki aunty says the aircraft has gone through 4800+ hours of flight testing where the plane would have flown high in the sky and landed, many many times; and this problem did not show up there (am assuming problem did not happen, because if it did, it would have been fixed). This article says something about the Li-ion battery itself (and the fact that some laptop batteries have caught fire). http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... re-burning

It is indeed funny that this problem did not show up in a year+ of testing, and yet it shows up within 3 months of commercial flying in brand new planes.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jan 2013 13:57

Seems like two issues are emerging one is the known battery problem associated with Li-On batteries and second more serious could be a design flaw in electrical systems.

Probably the batteries are designed for x thousand hours and then needs to be replaces and since it flew y thousand hours the problem came up which is to say the battery works well below its designed life.

What is the break even sales number for 787 where Boeing can start earning profit

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jan 2013 13:59

Superjet accident some months back blames both pilots and ATC

Superjet 100 Exonerated, Image Still Under Repair

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 19 Jan 2013 19:44

Austin wrote:Superjet accident some months back blames both pilots and ATC

Superjet 100 Exonerated, Image Still Under Repair

Interesting. Glad to note they released the findings.

787 Story: This article says http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news ... l?page=all breakeven point is ~ 2034. Saw a TV show where it said that the devleopmental costs were over 22 billiion $.

This website http://nyc787.blogspot.com/ gives some details on the battery issue, and specifically what happened on Japan Air. flight. He quotes an article from Seattle Times- linked in his blog (link below):

Hot chemicals had sprayed out of the battery, leaving a gooey dark residue and suggesting a different malfunction than the 787 battery fire at Logan airport in Boston last week, according to two people with knowledge of the situation. The residue covered the battery and splattered over nearby instruments inside the bay. It left a 12-foot-long dark streak from the battery to an outflow valve through which some of the spray vented overboard during the flight. The battery was not blackened and cracked open like the battery in the Japan Airlines 787 fire at the Boston airport, said those two people. “It’s not as bad as the earlier incident,” one said, speaking on condition of anonymity. “It looks like there wasn’t a fire. But there was a significant overheating.”

taken from http://seattletimes.com/html/businesste ... edxml.html Spraying of hot, pressurized electrolyte is not a tame event. Battery is manufactured in Japan:

GS Yuasa Corp., the maker of the lithium-ion batteries used in the 787s, said Thursday it was helping with the investigation but that the cause of the problem was unclear. It said the problem could be the battery, the power source or the electronics system.

I hope the FAA is looking at more than just the battery. There were several other problems noted in the past few weeks. With the fleet grounded, we wont hear of any new problems.....so the only way additional problems can be found is if Boeing is doing test flights.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 20:36

with the enormous amount of testing the Americans, Eu and russians do - we still have issues -

now who is the brave soul who will volunteer to fly when the first Chinese airliners come out