LCA News and Discussions

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Nov 2011 10:56

It is getting near to fire an AA12 adder or Astra, home on a balloon target trailing lakshaya.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 12 Nov 2011 15:26

Saw a pair of Tejas taking off to a thunderous roar this afternoon. Both carrying two droptanks.
They returned after appx an hrs flight. One landed and another did some nrithya over the Bangalore skies for sometime.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 12 Nov 2011 16:21

SaiK wrote:It is getting near to fire an AA12 adder or Astra, home on a balloon target trailing lakshaya.

Sir-ji, was that news from some esteemed chai-wallahs? AFAIK, LCA radar (MMR) is a hybrid with Israeli tech, so it would be easier to integrate & test Derby first.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Nov 2011 19:50

The chai-wala was so excited about it.. so take it with a pinch of salt. However, I like the expectations, which is a requirement as well.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 13 Nov 2011 03:15

take it with a ton of it

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Nov 2011 15:36

http://tejas.gov.in/featured_interview.html

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 14 Nov 2011 15:57

Bravo to Kedar!!!

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 14 Nov 2011 16:37

saw an LCA roaring over my office for landing at the HAL, any significant event happened?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Nov 2011 17:04

Kedar was in town

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 14 Nov 2011 21:22

With due apologies to Rahul M, Surya and Rohitvats

This is causing me a slight dhoti shiver

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... topstories

Gyaanis, strongly hoping that this does not cause a PR victory for a souped up MiG21 over the Tejas.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 14 Nov 2011 22:42

anirban_aim wrote:With due apologies to Rahul M, Surya and Rohitvats

This is causing me a slight dhoti shiver

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... topstories

Gyaanis, strongly hoping that this does not cause a PR victory for a souped up MiG21 over the Tejas.

Pak offering JF17 with an underpowered engine and decades old avionics to cash rich Gulf-countries at drop dead prices is a joke. This will piss uncle off big time considering the fact that Uncle is peddling F-15, F-16 and F-18 to these countries apart from JSF. Ditto for the Euro-Canards. Bear might also not be thrilled and would shut off the engine tap to the Lizard and hence to its poodle. This is an excellent development for desh and Pakees have (as usual tried to) bite the hand(s) that feed it.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 14 Nov 2011 23:09

Shrinivasan wrote: Pak offering JF17 with an underpowered engine and decades old avionics to cash rich Gulf-countries at drop dead prices is a joke. This will piss uncle off big time considering the fact that Uncle is peddling F-15, F-16 and F-18 to these countries apart from JSF. Ditto for the Euro-Canards. Bear might also not be thrilled and would shut off the engine tap to the Lizard and hence to its poodle. This is an excellent development for desh and Pakees have (as usual tried to) bite the hand(s) that feed it.

No, the offer won't piss off Uncle or Bear or any one for that matter. Every product has a target customer group and the cash rich gulf nations will never go for a JF-17, you can be dead sure on that. You can always count them to go for more showy ones even if they know zilch on how to use them, example: asking for Mercedes Benz against favors. JF-17 can be pitched to poor African nations or the likes, who would want to ride on a fancy machine but have peanuts to spare, and Uncle or Bear will always keep a safe distance from such people.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Nov 2011 23:21

please take the JF-17 discussion to the paki thread.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 14 Nov 2011 23:22

krishnan wrote:Kedar was in town

Thanks folks - feels nice to be associated with "her"

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Nov 2011 00:17

great job! wish you take more stunners.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 17 Nov 2011 11:22

When is LSP7 flying

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 17 Nov 2011 13:24

^^^ I am eagerly waiting for that date.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 17 Nov 2011 19:03

LSP7 is not of interest. LSP6 and NP-2 are.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 17 Nov 2011 21:49

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 17 Nov 2011 22:01

Not sure NP-2's skeleton(sorry i dont know the right term for the mesh on top of which the skin is put pardon me) is ready. NP-1 was getting ready for first flight and they were pulling out all stops for it. LSP-7's update was a month ago stating they were planning to complete LSTT by Oct24th and first flight thereafter.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 18 Nov 2011 03:23

Wasnt there a report about AK Antony wanting it to fly before christmas?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Nov 2011 04:05

no hurries

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Nov 2011 06:29

Katare wrote:??

LSP6 will be used for pushing the alpha envelope. Naval prototypes are significantly different from the AF ones. LSP7 is more of the same.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 19 Nov 2011 10:56

LCA FOC pushed to 2014. IOC-2 will be next year. NAK Browne says.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 19 Nov 2011 11:16

merlin wrote:LCA FOC pushed to 2014. IOC-2 will be next year. NAK Browne says.

wow.. we will induct LCA in large numbers by the time PAK FA might start to join IAF ranks.

LCA MK II first debut may further slip too due to this.

P.S. please forgive me but such news are really depressing.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 19 Nov 2011 11:26

merlin wrote:LCA FOC pushed to 2014. IOC-2 will be next year. NAK Browne says.

Merlin could you please psot the source. Thanks.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 19 Nov 2011 11:30

***&! buggered!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Nov 2011 11:36

Weapons integration and testing is taking that much time.. I am amazed.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 19 Nov 2011 11:44

And no news of the stretched envelope via LSP6.

In the words of a senior chaiwallah, a good a/c but too late!

Being an incurable optimist, time to raise the MMRCA numbers. A split order, though a logistics nightmare will give our MIC a boost with insistence on deep ToT. Or even one of the two beauties at over 200 #s with deep ToT could be beneficial.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Nov 2011 11:53

rajanb wrote:
merlin wrote:LCA FOC pushed to 2014. IOC-2 will be next year. NAK Browne says.
Merlin could you please psot the source. Thanks.

Here you go, sir:
Tejas induction only by mid-2014

India’s ''pride,'' the light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas, will only be inducted into the Indian Air Force (IAF) in mid-2014, as the aircraft, about which the IAF had expressed some dissatisfaction, is yet to get the second initial operational clearance (IOC-2).

Answering queries from the media after inaugurating a conference here, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne said the IOC-2 is expected only by mid-2012 and the final operational clearance could be scheduled only two years after that.

Pointing out that there are some delays in its development, he said: “The delay is caused by the active monsoon during which not many flights could be undertaken. But there are also some technical issues that have to be resolved as we go along.”

It is noteworthy that his predecessor Air Chief Marshal P V Naik was very vocal about the shortcomings of Tejas. He had, in fact, said the aircraft had not yet reached the category its promoters claimed it was on the day it received the IOC and that it had a long way to go before his men are able to fly it.

Further, Browne said the IAF was keen on inducting two more Israeli Phalcon AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) with the same configuration with electronic suite as it has already spent a lot of money on the integration.

“The proposal has just come to us from IAI (Israel Aerospace Industries). We will examine it and forward it to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for approval,” he said.

He also said the IAF hoped to conclude the contract for buying six more C-130J Super Hercules heavy-lift aircraft from Lockheed Martin by January. Stating that the trials have been completed for the 197 light helicopters that the armed forces want to buy, he said: “A trial report is being formulated now. Although the issue is being handled by the Army, we (IAF) would get 64 of those choppers.”

All in all, not really great news!!

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 19 Nov 2011 12:01

Thanks Sum ji

So even the naval version will get delayed.
Terrible news.
Maybe worth doing the LCA in small #s and push for the MK2 straight away. In parallel. Rather than serially.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 19 Nov 2011 12:10

What I absolutely hate about this article is that it gives you no real information about what the issues are, what makes them confident they'll resolve these issues by 2014, how the delay affects LCA Mk2, if it affects the IAF's commitment to LCA Mk1 and LCA Mk2, etc.

The article read like a story of a husband going to pardes to earn some money for the family and the prospect of him returning after he has earned enough. :p

I don't buy the monsoon crap. If they could fly all the way to Jaisalmer for the weapons trials, I'm sure they could move the requisite test and measurement equipment to an IAF base in a dry part of India for uninterrupted testing.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Nov 2011 12:25

Anything over simplified or exceeds time to deliver has an element of danger. It appears there is no concentrated efforts in project management of this most important fighter a/c project for desh. We can blame everyone after the events.. but it hurts when we have lot of qualified people at helm unable to execute a good project. We can say 101 things about technology denials, blah blah.. and in the end, all that matters for the user is timely delivery.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 19 Nov 2011 12:41

Hmm, another Marut in the making I sense - such delays will mean mk2 will come even later. Worse still, MRCA in all probability will take a chunk of the LCA cake now. I am thinking IAF is keen to have a hi-lo mix of Pakfa/MKI + MRCA (token order for LCA).

Alarming thought: Not only does this dash jingo hopes of getting some 300 LCA; it means that the IAF is on the way to become almost an entirely twin engined force

Perhaps it will be the Navy, which will save the day - Fly Navy!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Nov 2011 12:47

fly with steroid legs? we have no idea what is happening there.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 19 Nov 2011 12:56

lca has a new phrase: 'The plane that never came'...

I am a dissapointed jingo today...

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 19 Nov 2011 13:02

Oh, it will come. I don't think there's any doubt in that. The LCA will always be valuable to the IAF as a potent wildcard which they can modify in any way they like to serve special purposes. LCA capabilities can be kept secret.

However, if allocating the LCA to Sulur was a hint, this latest news just adds salt to the wound of LCA possibly being relegated to IAF's plan B or plan C, not their mainstay as we had once dreamed of.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Nov 2011 13:37

^^^ hopefully the MIG21 will help us induct more Tejas. Interesting to see why it cant be accepted as is and then improved while in service. The SU-30Ks were inducted with limited/no(depending on whom you ask) ground strike capability. Hopefully, the IAF comes around like the IA did with pinaka/akash/arjun

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 19 Nov 2011 13:57

We're buying additional [Super] Su-30 MKI like they were cheap. We're ejecting aircraft which are actually cheap, like the Gripen. Of all the aircraft available in the MMRCA competition, we retained the most expensive couple. From the beginning we committed to buying more PAK-FA+FGFA than the LCA.

There might never be a Mig-21 replacement, not in those numbers.

Perhaps the IAF has decided that Chinese numerical superiority is best outclassed, not outnumbered. I recognise the LCA would still outclass anything currently in the Chinese fleet, with the J-20 being a black box that flies, but the margin between the LCA and something in the Chinese fleet might not be overwhelming. The IAF might be looking to maintain an overwhelming margin.

nash · Post by **nash** » 19 Nov 2011 14:08

rajanb wrote:Maybe worth doing the LCA in small #s and push for the MK2 straight away. In parallel. Rather than serially.

I think that is the plan from begining, that's why they ordered only 40 LCA.
Even the production rate also in-sync now.First year after IOC it will be 4 a/c,then 8 and after that 12-16/per year.