Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Locked
SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5874
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SBajwa »

Sure! Harbans ji! These tweets are for BRakshaks to spread.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

My new blog post: The bad news is 2014 is 1947 Redux

Narendra Damodardas Modi has sound the Conchshell: Congress Mukt Bharat! It does remind one of the Quit India Movement with its Bhārat Chhodo slogan!

The hope is that in 2014 India would finally have the fortune of getting rid of Congress party which has been sucking India’s blood since its birth, perhaps just like in 1947 the British were forced to leave India. They did leave India, didn’t they?

Yes exactly that is the bad news. The British did leave India per forma but their influence remained.

Same is the case with 2014. Even as Congress would lose the elections and perhaps never ever rise again, 2014 would be a false dawn just as false as 1947.

The British did not leave India. They transferred power to an Indian elite which was nurtured by them and which continued to serve foreign interests and decimate its own native culture. At the top of this elite was Nehru. So the British were able to perpetuate their control over India through local hands, through local subsidiaries. And the interesting part is that British too wanted to leave India as it made more economic and political sense.

1947 was a transfer of power to subsidiaries, and 2014 promises to be no different.

In 2014 it is not just that Narendra Modi wants Congress Mukt Bharat, one could say the dynasty, Sonia Gandhi too wants Congress Mukt Bharat. Why so?

Just like the British, the dynasty too is looking for an exit plan, after sucking the country dry! Just like the British, Sonia Gandhi too is looking for surrogates to whom to transfer power to, such people as who would always do her bidding but people would never suspect that they are doing so.

In fact Sonia Gandhi is playing out the same script as the British, and nobody seems to notice.

The British were looking for a person who was ideologically in tune with them but still was respected among Indians. They found Nehru who said he is an Englishman by education but Nehru was also a Brahmin, and as such one who ostensibly upholds Bharatiya Sanskriti, and that too a Kashmiri, the land of Himalayas, where tapasvis go to meditate. With such a pedigree Indians were bound to accept him.

Sonia has been in search for similar agents, ideologically one with her either at a religious level or at a network level, e.g. a Christianist or at least one who completely rejects Bharatiya Sabhyata, rejects Hindutva, like the Marxists. But at the same time someone who the Indians may look up to. In this age the equivalent of a Kashmiri Brahmin would be perhaps an IIT alumnus, someone like Arvind Kejriwal. Just like Nehru in the days of old was the darling of the educated aspirational Indians as well as traditional Hindus, similarly an Arvind Kejriwal occupies such a position, courtesy the media.

It was the British Media which built up Gandhi and Nehru as the primary opponents of the British. Similarly it is the Indian Media which built up Anna Hazare and Arvind Kejriwal as the fiercest opponents of the corrupt system. The point is just like the British, Sonia too wants to choose her main opponent, and she wants him to be her loyalist. Does it not occur to anybody that it is Congress and Arvind Kejriwal have been sharing same PR teams and Congress-affiliated Media has been giving Arvind Kejriwal maximum exposure and publicity?

The British were able to show that they were forced to leave India due to Gandhi and Nehru to bolster their image in Indian eyes, even as the British were bankrupt and themselves wanted to leave India. Similarly Sonia wants to show that Arvind Kejriwal was able to demolish the corrupt Congress, so that he gets all the accolades for his activist work.

In Sonia wants to retire to Bella Italia, she would have to leave Congress behind, but Congress would not allow her to leave, so Congress is an impediment to her plans. Sonia Gandhi is more than willing to see Congress decimated if it serves her purpose to install her puppets under various names and faces in India, who would not disclose her control over them from the shadows, hidden from others.

So just like the British folded their British Army Officers, same way Sonia is willing to fold Congress. Important is that there are others who are willing to take over the charge of taking care of their interests.

The more dangerous part is that in order to get full control over India, British and their Indian agents had to sideline Hindutvavadis. For this they ensured that Hindutvavadis lost support as their man killed Gandhi.

Now if Sonia Gandhi wants to replay the script, then Anna Hazare may be bumped off by someone claiming to be from the Hindutva ranks. The ensuing sympathy may propel more support to Aam Aadmi Party. If it done at the hands of an ostensible Modi supporter, then just like Savarkar was sidelined, so too Modi would not make it to PM. We have already seen the case of some ostensible “BJP member” throwing ink on Arvind Kejriwal. That may be one of the dry runs.

With Anna Hazare lately choosing to suggest that Modi cannot stop corruption and thus belittling Modi’s image, it makes it all the more easier for Sonia to sell that a Modi supporter maltreated Anna Hazare or undertook some physical attack. But first Anna Hazare would have to built up even more using the Congress-affiliated mainstream media.

So the question is would the Indians be fooled again in 2014 to choose another Nehru who
  • gave up Baluchistan and Chittagong to Pakistan during Partition,
  • lost more than a third of Kashmir to Pakistan in the 1947 war,
  • ignored take over of Aksai Chin by China in 1950s,
  • then let China march into Tibet in 1959 losing the buffer between India and China,
  • made India suffer under a Nehru Rate of Growth for 17 years, and
  • placed over India the pall of Macaulayism which made all Indians forget their rich heritage.
What would the new Nehru, Arvind Kejriwal have in store for Indians? One only needs to look at his circle of friends who have advocated Kashmir separatism, Naxalism, Islamic Extremism, and anti-Hindutva. It makes one shudder.

That is what Sonia Gandhi is looking for, building up a host of smaller parties who are loyal to her even though they outwardly may oppose her and using these parties, e.g. YSRCP, AAP, KKR Congress, her own Congress or what is left of it, and other parties which are strongly influenced by Christian networks or can be blackmailed using the corruption cases against them to form a new Secular Front of which Arvind Kejriwal may end up as consensus Prime Minister. The drubbing that Congress receives, would allow Sonia Gandhi to leave India with her family perhaps with a little ignominy but with all the plundered treasure intact, her influence formidable and with her hand-picked inspector in PM’s seat. A transfer of power just as well executed as the British in 1947.

Is that what we yearn for? Another 67 years of non-Bharatiya rule? A more permanent loss to our already battered civilization?

So Congress Mukt Bharat does not suffice, Shri Narendra Modi! Bharatiyas would want the whole network to be uprooted, not just what is visible over the surface!

Perhaps we Bharatiyas should add another slogan to our quiver:

Sonia ki Chaal: Kejriwal!

____________

Tweet
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13749
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

Who is Sherri?
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10540
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

matrimc wrote:Who is Sherri?
There is only one ri wala, Guruji. We need to give interview to him to join his Party.
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9374
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

This amar ujala piece by Tavleen Singh on why the Modi wave is yet to become a Tsunami.

http://www.amarujala.com/news/samachar/ ... s-not-yet/
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20844
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

A bit of humor. :) URT

Image
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13749
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

Narayana Rao wrote:
matrimc wrote:Who is Sherri?
There is only one ri wala, Guruji. We need to give interview to him to join his Party.
N. Rao, meeru (aap) Acharya lAga mATlADuthunnAru (talking like Acharya san). :twisted: but got it. Looks like our IIT/IAS man wants to bring in a system of JEE/IAS (first round)/IAS (interview). So babooz will rule the roost in Dhilli municipality if he becomes the Mayo ... err ... CM of this place.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

matrimc, NR has problems with his phone as he mentioned many times. So need to decode it and will edit his post.
LakshO
BRFite
Posts: 210
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by LakshO »

SBajwa wrote:
pls explain then how samajwadi party and elk are survivng
Going by these election trends their days are numbered!
Sir,

If you are referring to recently concluded state elections, these may be one off. AAP and/or BJP may not be able to replicate this everywhere. Especially, in states like UP or Bihar which are heavily dominated by caste based parties. Even if BJP/AAP run their campaign for good governance & freebies, voters may not leave the comfort zone of caste/community arithmetic. Voting along caste/communal lines may prevail over pie-in-the-sky promises of transparency and good governance etc. Hope I am wrong on this.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

Err look at the Rajasthan, MP & Chattisgarh results. And field reports by niran linkled above in reply ot IndraD....

...
Mayawati contest in 166 seats in MP 177 seats in Rajasthan and in all seats in CG
in MP she lost 3 seats from 6 to 3 in CG from 4 to 1 and in Rajasthan zero


the Champion of Trud front, the onree choice, the sekolar among the sekularist Maullana Moolaayam Sing Yadav contested in 183 seats in MP and scored zero, in Rajasthan Zero from 199 seats here all of them from azam makhi moolaayam to aggrawaal all had literally camped there wooing voters and enlightening voters about real Sekularism.

There was report of SP winding up their Delhi unit for lack of performance.
LakshO
BRFite
Posts: 210
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by LakshO »

SBajwa wrote:
I think the news about Kejriwal contesting against Modi is fake. It has to be fake.
Isn't there an article in Indian constitution that says that "Parliament candidates must local to the area where they have won the elections except for the appointed Rajya Sabha members".
I thought any Indian citizen can contest from any Lok Sabha constituency (for ex. decades back, IG contested from Medak in AP, Chikballapur in KA, Sushma Swaraj from Bellary in KA etc). Was this changed recently?

Candidates contesting for RS had to be resident of those states (for ex. MMS claiming to be resident of Assam, Jairam Ramesh claiming to be resident of AP etc). Currently, that reqmt was removed as our beloved netas found it inconvenient :(
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13749
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

ramana garu, No problem. just trying to inject some humor.

-----

Atri: Thanks. Looks like my deracination is complete :(

OTOH, there is this alternate interpretation of "bhArata bhAgya vidhAta" which I remember from my childhood. But Gurudev's repudiation of that interpretation is not well-known (or atleast not known to me till now when I looked at Wikipedia).

Wikipedia
Wikipedia wrote:Controversy shadowed Jana Gana Mana from the day of its first rendition in 1911 at the Congress session in Calcutta. King George V was scheduled to arrive in the city on 30 December and a section of the Anglo-Indian English press in Calcutta thought – and duly reported – that Tagore's anthem was a homage to the emperor.[13]

The poet claims in a letter written in 1939: "I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me capable of such unbounded stupidity."[13] In another letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense."[14]
LakshO
BRFite
Posts: 210
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by LakshO »

ramana wrote:Err look at the Rajasthan, MP & Chattisgarh results. And field reports by niran linkled above....

There was report of SP winding up their Delhi unit for lack of performance.,
Oh ok, will do. I will look forward to the day when UP unit of SP is wound up for lack of performance :)
Last edited by LakshO on 11 Dec 2013 06:49, edited 1 time in total.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13749
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

LakshO wrote:I thought any Indian citizen can contest from any Lok Sabha constituency (for ex. decades back, IG contested from Medak in AP, Chikballapur in KA, Sushma Swaraj from Bellary in KA etc). Was this changed recently?
Not entirely true. There are reserved constituencies. Are they only for Assembly members? One needs to show residency - I am 99.99% sure about this.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

why none congratulated kangrez winning 2/3rd majority in mizo? :)
vivek.rao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3775
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vivek.rao »

The PAID MEDIA won't stop this. They think the country is like a big muncipality like Delhi

The Yogi arrives: A warning for Narendra Modi
Kejriwal and Raje are both achievers. Both used the anti-Congress mood in the country. But how differently!

Another not-so-debated nugget that emerges from this election is that ideology is over-rated.

Kejriwal is a leader without a clear-cut political ideology beyond battling corruption. In his public meetings he uses nationalist catchphrases like 'Vande Mataram', but speak to him and he will tell you he has no political ideology.

His Aam Aadmi Party shone in Delhi's reserved constituencies. The AAP won nine out of 12 reserved for scheduled caste seats. It is the kind of success that would be a Marxist dream come true.

In fact -- and no matter how the bhakts try to window-dress it -- the Bharatiya Janata Party, a party with a highly-pronounced ideology, was halted in its tracks by Kejriwal's non-ideological smart talk.

The AAP won eight out of Delhi's 10 urban assembly seats. It won from elite areas like Greater Kailash, and also from Dalit areas -- with equal elan.

Another nugget that emerges from Kejriwal's rise is that his credibility among the masses will help the Congress in public debates.

With each passing day, it is being proven more conclusively that the Congress does not have the credibility to take on Narendra Modi on issues of development, corruption and probity.

In just one year, Kejriwal demolished the credibility of a chief minister who gave India's capital vastly improved infrastructure. :roll:

Kejriwal exposed Sheila Dikshit's handling of water and power distribution. He unearthed evidence claiming how she had not been above board in fixing the prices of power, and how she had messed up Delhi's water management.

The BJP -- which emerged as the single largest party in Delhi -- also gained from Kejriwal's genuine and relentless blitzkrieg against the Dikshit government.

Now, the Congress will hope that Kejriwal does to Modi what he did to Dikshit.

The Congresswallahs will hope that Kejriwal's oratory and confidence will be the anti-aircraft guns to Modi's airwave-capturing force.


Both Kejriwal and Modi speak Hindi well.

Both are supremely self-confident about their agenda and vision. Some of their catch-phrases -- 'Vande Mataram' and 'Bharat Mata Ki Jai' -- are also identical.

Both are inspiring figures for their cadres. Both are not hesitant at all to wear their faith in Bhagwan on their foreheads on public platforms.

Both can address their audiences directly, convincingly.

Both are adept at harnessing the new power of social media.

Both are anti-Congress.

The 2014 Lok Sabha election was being seen as a Modi versus Rahul Gandhi battle. Verdict 2013 shows that another man is waiting to enter the ring.

He does not have the paraphernalia of security guards. He does not have corporate India's backing. But he has turned those ordinary traits into signs of extraordinary resolve and promise.

Forget RaGa versus NaMo. We are in for a different final.

Willingly or unwillingly, if assembly elections are held again in Delhi, it will be Arvind Kejriwal versus Narendra Modi.
Last edited by vivek.rao on 11 Dec 2013 07:40, edited 1 time in total.
vivek.rao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3775
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vivek.rao »

Congress now faces a serious leadership crisis
Not much should be read into Sonia Gandhi saying that the party would name its prime ministerial candidate at an appropriate time - that time could come after the Lok Sabha polls or the need to do so may not arise at all.

A new leader would also have to change the style and content of leadership, and learn to be responsive to peoples' needs. The Congress today shows no capacity to do either.

The same Congressman who saw hostile public sentiment reaching cyclonic proportions, lamented, "We are not a party but a property. A party has leaders; a property has only dealers. All the dealers are looking to their own benefit in the Congress. There is no public purpose left."

For the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), these elections have transformed the public perception of Narendra Modi. It is no point claiming that the "Modi wave" was only evident in one state or two. Modi's campaigning did not damage the BJP in any state.

The BJP would not have done as well as it did in Rajasthan but for Modi consolidating the anti-Congress votes and polarising it in favour of the BJP. Realising that the party needs him, the party's chief ministerial candidate Vasundhara Raje personally went to invite him to campaign in Rajasthan.

In Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, too, he added to the popular support of the incumbent chief ministers. And it is possible that but for his campaigning the BJP may not have got the 31 assembly seats in Delhi.

Commentators who argue that the rise of a Shivraj Singh Chouhan and a Raman Singh will not be good for Modi are clutching at straws. Modi's brand of politics is cut from the same ideological cloth as those who are sometimes projected as contenders within the BJP. Now that Modi has given the party a political momentum, these leaders will build on that. Besides, Chouhan and Singh are yet to arrive on the national race track, while Modi is already up and running.

Calculations that cite the precedent of 2004 where the Congress swept parliamentary elections despite losing Assembly elections in some North Indian states and Gujarat may not work now.

Even in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, the BJP may now dramatically improve its tally if the anti-Congress sentiment continues to grow. Modi will start getting a toehold even in the south since regional leaders see an advantage in forming an alliance with the BJP.

In Karnataka, B S Yeddyurappa will most certainly be back in the BJP's fold as an ally.
Last edited by vivek.rao on 11 Dec 2013 07:41, edited 1 time in total.
Yayavar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4852
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 10:55

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yayavar »

matrimc wrote:
Wikipedia
Wikipedia wrote:Controversy shadowed Jana Gana Mana from the day of its first rendition in 1911 at the Congress session in Calcutta. King George V was scheduled to arrive in the city on 30 December and a section of the Anglo-Indian English press in Calcutta thought – and duly reported – that Tagore's anthem was a homage to the emperor.[13]

The poet claims in a letter written in 1939: "I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me capable of such unbounded stupidity."[13] In another letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense."[14]
thanks matrimc.

Somehow the 'rightwing' is more prone to the negative stories about Tagore as it feeds into the generic 'oh! if only all those leaders had not sold out...'. I had not thought of looking at wikipedia but thanks to the unkown guy who has clarified this. Will look up the original reference as well.
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10540
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

ramana wrote:matrimc, NR has problems with his phone as he mentioned many times. So need to decode it and will edit his post.
Thank u sir, still with the same phone. Got out of bed though. Still under treatment. Became legal and regulatory head in Mumbai. Once again a Public Servent in the service of Mafia bosses. No laptop still and office laptop blocks BR. So spelling is still problem.

Soon planing to host Mumbai BR meet. Before fraud wala comes to Mumbai :( :(
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rahul Mehta »

ravi_g wrote:Rahul Mehta ji, independently I have reached similar (not same) conclusions.
AWMTA :)
ravi_g: Now leave aside all talk of winning and losing and preaching to the choir or converting the unwilling and tell us who is gonna do what about it. The point is what is the relevant affected party going to do about that. The point further is are these guys willing+able to do something about that. Are they willing to see the adapt. Are they willing to listen. And are these guys capable of withstanding the pressure that comes with this resistance. Or is it all a case of a 'piggie on the railway track'.
Ravi_G, pls name the name.

I have no contacts with any apex. I campaign for laws such as RTR, MRCM = giving mineral royalties directly to citizens, JurySys, wealth tax, inheritance tax, SGPC like structure for all temples i.e. making all temples Hindu community property etc etc . Due to these law-drafts, all apex in all groups, be AAP or Congress or BJP or RSS or VHP or CPM dislike me. I tell everything to activists of all groups. They try to take it to apex and so far all have come with empty hands, but hopes that "apex says that they will take up these steps when right time comes" !!!

===

Dear All,

I classify participants in politics as
  • common voters - who spend less than 1 hrs a week on politics, less than 0.1% of their income
  • concerned busy voters - who will spend 1% to 2% income, but no time over 1 hr a week
  • poor true activists - willing to spend hours and hours, but not much money as they are students or first year of career
  • well off activists (like myself) - willing to spend hours and days , and few lakhs a months but not crores, we dont have crores to spend
  • rich concerned citizens - can spend few more hours, not days, but can spend crores
  • paid activists -
  • unconcerned rich citizens --- they politicians with intention to get back twice
  • full time committed politicians
  • full time professional politicians
  • etc etc
A committed person may end up working for enemies in absence of information. Many postors here say that "Indians have low analytical ability and so they fell for AK". This is sheer falsehood. They fell for AK because of lack of options and lack of information. And why didnt nationalist printed millions of pamphlets or gave necessary newspaper advt to give information is a question they need to ask and seek answers.

Most nationalist-activists are working under "national" elitemen. The national elitemen need not be nationalist --- many of them may be 100% pure selfish and even be willing to loot India. The nationalist-activists should see if the agenda offered by Nationalist group such as BJP caters to ALL good demands or not. If not, then enemy can create a front with lacking good proposals, and then using paid media , give more importance to that issue, and this hijack committed poor as well as well-off activists .

To make long story, corruption is one issue. And what did BJP leaders offer? BJP leaders said "put up with corruption and we will give you development" !! This was utter nonsense. They should have put a proposal better than Janlokpal, but they refused to do so. And the nation has paid a heavy heavy price --- a large number of committed activists have joined AK !!! And nationalist adopted one more tactic. Anyone who spoke against BJP even on nationalist cause was dubbed as anti-national, leftist, trojan etc etc. So more cannon fodder became available for AK.

Corruption is not just loss of money. It comes with humiliation, fear, anxiety and harassment. Money was lesser issue. The middle class seldom complains against fees that govt charges or even taxes. But the officer who is extracting bribes almost often uses very heavy tactics, creates fear, creates anxiety and sometimes harasses a lot to extract more bribes. The fees are uniform -- everyone pays same , knows in advance. And no one would feel that they got over charged. Whereas many officers try to extract far far more than normal bribes when they see that applicant is NRI, is short of time, doesnt have local knowledge of going rates, is weak etc. So "put with corruption , we will give you development" slogan of BJP leaders was salt on the wound. Even people in Gujarat didnt accept this. They went along, as Congress was much worse. Many like myself said all this since 2008 AD or even before. All of us were rubbed off as "leftists" by BJP-bhagats. Well, now go and deal with AK with MNC-paid-media backing him. AK will show you all what real left is. And even today, nationalists dont see the loss. The poor are deserting Hinduism and going to church, And the concerned citizen from well off middle class is joining AK, another Missionary-MNC front !!!

====

My proposal to nationalist is ALL nationalists should openly trash this "put with corruption, we will give you development" nonsense. First, "put with corruption" itself is anti-national idea. And second, Delhi-Assembly-2013 elections proves that middle class will never accept it. Now AK has a useless proposal called Janlokpal. But do BJP leaders have courage to say that "Lokpal is a useless proposal"? Do BJP leaders have courage to say "what if Lokpals becomes corrupt?". etc etc . You decide. IMO, NO. Not even one BJP leader has courage to ask "what if Lokpals become corrupt?". Why not? You ask and find out.

Now IMO, solution is to offer an alternative which is far more potent than Lokpal and it should also look more potent. And if it is anti-MNC as well, then it will work against AK. AK's weak point is that he can never endorse anti-MNC law because in such case MNC-owners will pull the plugs. So IMO we should put a good alternate anti-corruption law , which if AK accepts , then he loses and if AK refuses to accept than he gets exposed before his activists and then also he loses. So IMO, anti-AK method is to put proposals against whom AK has no winning chance.

Rest of the details are in chap-45 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm . Pls note that I wrote this whole book way before dec-2012 . And chap-45 has description of AK you see today, and its antidote I propose.
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rahul Mehta »

RajeshA wrote:There are four ways to puncture Arvind Kejriwal
  1. Take him up on the AAP's program and show it to the people that it is not implementable, has loads of holes and does not solve problems but in fact creates new ones. Also highlight a total lack of governance and administrative experience.
  2. Use data on him and his associates to prove that they are just as corrupt as anybody he may have charged of corruption.
  3. Highlight the anti-national credentials of his associates and the people from whom he seeks support. Tag him as HazratKejriwal!
  4. Expose him as Sonia's hound, not as Congress B Team but as New Clean Sanctuary for Congress network.
My proposal is to put BETTER law-drafts on issue of corruption, Bangladeshies, falling % of Hindus, go hatya, RJB Devalaya, population control across all religions, improvement of temple management, corruption in courts, nepotism in judges, taxation reforms etc. AK will be forced to give timepass answers on all these law-drafts and that will expose AK before his true-unpaid-activists.

AK has MNC-paid-media backing him. And now he has large number of unpaid activists with him because paid-media has made him hero. So following will NOT convince AK's unpaid supporters :
RajeshA wrote:There are four ways to puncture Arvind Kejriwal
Take him up on the AAP's program and show it to the people that it is not implementable, has loads of holes and does not solve problems but in fact creates new ones. Also highlight a total lack of governance and administrative experience.
The activists DO NOT have information/knowledge on economics and so they will not understand criticism unless criticism is accompained with better alternatives.
Use data on him and his associates to prove that they are just as corrupt as anybody he may have charged of corruption.
Only Bhushan is money-corrupt. Rest are power-corrupt and fame-corrupt. And Bhushan has been lawyer. And lawyer taking money is acceptable. And paid-media can cite BJP MPs as more corrupt.
Highlight the anti-national credentials of his associates and the people from whom he seeks support. Tag him as HazratKejriwal!
Paid-media has convinced many that corruption is more important issue than minority appeasement. So his activists know that AK is compromised on issue of minority appeasement. But they go along because AK is seen as someone who can reduce corruption to zero.

etc etc
niran
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5538
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 16:01

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by niran »

Jarita wrote:BJP would do well to finish congress off rather than do a Vajpayee and nurture the snake
rest assured Saar, Tis NaMo not AVB, see what he did in Gujarat, even cogress state CEO lost his seat, and it has been 12 looong years will get loonger, same will be in center a decade and half of NaMo years at least.
bhargava
BRFite
Posts: 272
Joined: 29 Dec 2005 12:27
Location: Nammooru

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by bhargava »

Image
Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

I agree with RM for a change....To counter Kejriwal, at least in the urban centers where the AAP is likely to surface, BJP needs to come up with anti-corruption, judicial reform and other bill drafts that are superior to Kejriwal's. He can also bolster his team with folks like Kiran Bedi.

Rahul Mehta himself could be an excellent antidote to Kejriwal, for that matter :wink:
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20844
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

A lot of details here, to connect the dots, even amongst the can-do-no-wrong-saint stuff here.

Gets money from abroad to "survive", 25k onlee..
Harsh Mander is his mentor (whowudhave thought)
Already folks criticizing him have to be anonymous - see RTI activists comments about his method of working..

Bosslog, this guy is a grade A trojan horse who outgrew his boots and is now eyeing the big times.. power si what he craves. In the process he'll create a monster.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/XERu7Q ... riwal.html

Saraf is Kejriwal’s best friend from his college days and one of the people who helped him raise loans to reimburse the government for his voluntary retirement from the civil service after he had taken two years’ paid study leave.

Kejriwal has several friends, many of them in the US, who all contribute and give him Rs.25,000 every month for a living so that he can continue his fight against corruption.

“Rest of the expense is borne by my wife, who is an additional commissioner in income-tax department. I have no other source of income and I do not take any money from Indian Against Corruption,” Kejriwal said. He and his wife Sunita have two children—daughter Harshita and son Pulkit.


After graduating from IIT, many of his friends left for the US, but Kejriwal stayed back. He took up a job with Tata Steel Ltd and was posted at the company’s Jamshedpur design plant in 1989.

Poosarla Srinivas, who worked with Kejriwal, recalls him as a humble and approachable person. “After office hours, we used to hang out together. He would share his conviction do something for the underprivileged. After he quit his job at Tata, he went to (meet) Mother Teresa and saw the plight of the poor and sick,” Srinivas said.

After some time, Kejriwal returned to his job at Tata Steel. He also appeared for the civil service examination, and made an unsuccessful attempt to get into a top management college. He cleared the civil service exams and was posted in the Indian Revenue Service. His first posting was in Delhi as an assistant tax commissioner.

Harsh Mander, a civil servant-turned-social activist and Kejriwal’s instructor at the Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration in Mussourie, remembers him. “He was different from others and would always talk about corruption. I always felt that he had energy and wanted to do something about it,” said Mander.

RTI activism
Kejriwal worked in the tax department for some time, but his heart was never in the nine-to-five routine. In 1999, he took a sabbatical to work with Parivartan, a non-government organization.
In the same year, on the advice of Mander, Kejriwal met Shekhar Singh, a person who would later join him in a movement that would give India landmark legislation in the form of the RTI Act.

Singh, a working committee member of the New Delhi-based National Campaign for People’s Right to Information (NCPRI) and an RTI activist, has known Kejriwal for 12 years. Apart from Kejriwal, Mander and Singh, other working committee members of NCPRI include Kejriwal’s close aide and Supreme Court lawyer Prashant Bhushan.
“Arvind is a very competent person and there is no reason why, if other people can start a political party, then he can’t? But the only challenge is whether his party will be fundamentally different from other political parties,” Singh said.
While there are a large number of social activists across the country, Kejriwal belongs to a small subset that has taken on political issues and won public attention. What separates Kejriwal from other social activists is the fact that while the others focus on two or three issues, Kejriwal has the big picture in mind, according to his associate Abhinandan Sekhri.
Having taken up RTI as a cause, Kejriwal co-founded the Public Cause Research Foundation, which espoused transparent and accountable governance, in 2006 along with two other people—his long-time aide and former television journalist Manish Sisodia and television producer Sekhri.
According to Sekhri, who has known him for almost 10 years, Kejriwal is the “ideal person” to lead a movement like the one against corruption given his focus and steadfastness.
“People often criticize Arvind because he does not compromise. But, today we need someone like him, who will not compromise against a system that asks you to compromise at each and every stage,” said Sekhri, who is also the co-founder of “Newslaundry”, a current affairs and media website.
Not everybody agrees.
“Arvind has a set of views on how things should change and he would brook no opposition to it. He refutes everything with a belief that only what he says is correct,” an RTI activist who has known Kejriwal for almost nine years said, requesting anonymity.
According to this person, Kejriwal had at one point dismissed RTI work as a “waste of time” given that information commissions were not performing and government functioning was too opaque
“By that time, he was totally disillusioned with the RTI Act,” he said. “He does not want to hear or listen, but he still wants to consult. Beyond a point, people lost faith in him as there is no point in only signing attendance registers.”

For his work on RTI, Kejriwal won the prestigious Ramon Magsaysay Award for emergent leadership in 2006.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20844
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

niran wrote:
Jarita wrote:BJP would do well to finish congress off rather than do a Vajpayee and nurture the snake
rest assured Saar, Tis NaMo not AVB, see what he did in Gujarat, even cogress state CEO lost his seat, and it has been 12 looong years will get loonger, same will be in center a decade and half of NaMo years at least.
that guy is still cursing modi non stop on social media. he was also the one who raked up his person life in the crassest way possible. so INC in Gujarat still thinks they can get away with all sorts of behavior. perhaps because of central protection.
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Paul »

Congress strategy of stalling BJP in Delhi through AAP has succeeded. If AAP can take 10 - 12 Lok Sabha seats in Delhi/Mumbai through diversion, it should be termed as a success for Congress. Congratulations to SG for a job well done.
Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4080
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Lilo »

^
Paul ji,
Why phor you throwing the towel even before the big fight begins ?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20844
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

yes, metro urban voter fascination for AAP #peoplelikeus may not translate into real victory India wide.

I suspect the overbearing MSM coverage of AAP has a lot to do with this worry about AAP being something more than it is.
Sri
BRFite
Posts: 1332
Joined: 18 May 2005 20:19
Location: Earth

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sri »

Paul wrote:Congress strategy of stalling BJP in Delhi through AAP has succeeded. If AAP can take 10 - 12 Lok Sabha seats in Delhi/Mumbai through diversion, it should be termed as a success for Congress. Congratulations to SG for a job well done.
50% of his own supporters openly say that they support NAMO for PM.

NAMO is not talking to learn from AAP or support AAP. This pushes congress to 3rd position (also ran). Kejriwal's main opponents are NAMO and BJP. Let them have a go at each other.

NAMO in my opinion shouldn't shy from this challenge.
sooraj
BRFite
Posts: 1546
Joined: 06 May 2011 15:45

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by sooraj »

BREAKINGVIEWS-Narendra Modi could be India's Shinzo Abe
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/12/1 ... 8W20131210
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15178
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Suraj »

It is not VP Singh's Mandal that caused the economic crisis of the late 1980s. The genesis of that went all the way back to IG's last term. She began the first few steps of license/permit raj dismantlement. RG carried it through further. However, these focussed on the FII route, and hot money inflows predominated. This was a risky approach, but the low price of oil helped. Then came Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, and the oil price spike that put pressure on the current account just as the Mandal issues caused policymaking paralysis at the center, affecting further reforms.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

Thanks Suraj for bringing tdue root xause for the 1990 econ meltdown.
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Paul »

Lilo wrote:^
Paul ji,
Why phor you throwing the towel even before the big fight begins ?
AAP experiment in Delhi is a limited war like Kargil, where the Congis have succeeded in stalling the BJP onslaught. AAP are the NLI infiltrators in this proxy war they have succeeded in holding on the mountains unlike in Kargil.

Now next step is for Congis to provide moral and diplomatic support onlee to AAP Mujahideen like Pakis do in Kashmir and repeat the experiment in other sectors.
Last edited by Paul on 11 Dec 2013 10:24, edited 1 time in total.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20844
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

Point is there is no evidence yet, that the BJP onslaught has been stopped or that the position has been held.

Read the five forty three blog analysis linked above - a lot more is going than just AAP.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13749
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

In fact the economic reforms PV saab implemented were drawn up during IG's return after the 1977 circus

- Raj Narayan's photo of getting tel maalish was prominently featured in India Today (if my memory serves me right) after he dismantled the family planning program
- Morarji Desai gave an interview in US where he said on US live TV that he quaffs a glass of "hot liquid"
- A few month wonder that was Charan Singh (though he was the only one who opposed Asian Games tamasha - nothing came out of the Asian Games other than a big bill to Indian tax payers - who were far and few in between during those time)
- George Fernandes and ABV were also part of the govt. but somehow they never had a voice in the policy making.

Janata Party's internal contradictions did it in. It is like one of those panchatantra stories where the froggies want a lenient king and they get a log and the whole pond goes to dogs, then they ask for a harsher one and they get a croc which eats all but a few who petition the god to get them their original king back. IG was assasinated, RG became PM (if PVNR had been picked by Cong(I) probably India would have been another China but only better). That is how the cookie crumbled.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15178
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Suraj »

PVNR lacked enough standing in the Cong(I) at that time. It wasn't like the case of Deng in China. Deng was one of the party heavyweights since the mid 1950s. He was targeted by Mao during the cultural revolution, and both he and Liu Shaoqi were the target of a focussed purge, as this 1967 image shows - the text says "Decisively smash the Liu-Deng counterrevolutionary clique!"

The Cong(I) on the other hand, lacked any mechanism to permit PVNR to rise to power until after RG was out of the picture. It was always meant to be SanjayG following IG, but he died in a crash, putting RG as the heir apparent.
LakshO
BRFite
Posts: 210
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by LakshO »

matrimc wrote:
LakshO wrote:I thought any Indian citizen can contest from any Lok Sabha constituency (for ex. decades back, IG contested from Medak in AP, Chikballapur in KA, Sushma Swaraj from Bellary in KA etc). Was this changed recently?
Not entirely true. There are reserved constituencies. Are they only for Assembly members? One needs to show residency - I am 99.99% sure about this.
If you are referring to reserved constituencies for SCs & STs, any SC & ST individual from across the country can contest as a candidate in any LS constituency. No? I know for sure that RS used to have residency reqmts but these were removed.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13749
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

I don't know nothing about LS. I think for Assembly residency rules apply. I am much removed from the scene for sometime now.
Shanmukh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3042
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Shanmukh »

Paul wrote:
Lilo wrote:^
Paul ji,
Why phor you throwing the towel even before the big fight begins ?
AAP experiment in Delhi is a limited war like Kargil, where the Congis have succeeded in stalling the BJP onslaught. AAP are the NLI infiltrators in this proxy war they have succeeded in holding on the mountains unlike in Kargil.

Now next step is for Congis to provide moral and diplomatic support onlee to AAP Mujahideen like Pakis do in Kashmir and repeat the experiment in other sectors.
For the Congress, it is going to end exactly like the Kargil War for the Pakistanis. Paul-ji, I entreat you not to forget how the whole episode ended for the Pakistanis. Tactical brilliance is usually a product of strategic failure. All the Congress has done is shoot themselves in the foot fantastically, demonstrating its irrelevance everywhere in the country.
Locked