Af-Pak -> Pak-Af Watch

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Jul 2011 23:40

A sad tweet, by a Khalid Ali

...as sad as it can be but true.now I am getting ready to defend muslims during lunch break as people will be politely wondering..

Not for long, as very slowly, 1 by 1 all those who are evn remtly softer towrds mslms are being attacked in such manner.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Jul 2011 23:43

something is cooking

Mayor of Kandahar killed in suicide attack

The mayor of the volatile Afghan city of Kandahar, Ghulam Haidar Hameedi, has been killed in a suicide attack, officials say.

The attacker detonated explosives in his turban as the mayor made an address at the city hall, police said.

Two weeks ago, President Hamid Karzai's influential half-brother, Ahmad Wali Karzai, was killed in the same city.

The violence comes as Nato troops begin the handover of security to local forces in parts of the country.

The Taliban said they had carried out the attack. There is no independent confirmation of the claim.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jul 2011 04:15

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/27/137304363 ... st-statues

When the Taliban controlled Afghanistan a decade ago, they were fanatical about eliminating everything they considered un-Islamic.

Their biggest targets — literally and figuratively — were the two monumental Buddha statues carved out of the sandstone cliffs in central Afghanistan. One stood nearly 180 feet tall and the other about 120 feet high, and together they had watched over the dusty Bamiyan Valley since the sixth century, several centuries before Islam reached the region.

Despite international opposition, the Taliban destroyed the statues with massive explosions in 2001. At the time they were blown up, the statues were the largest Buddha carvings in the world, and it seemed they were gone for good.

But today, teams from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, along with the International Council on Monuments and Sites, are engaged in the painstaking process of putting the broken Buddhas back together.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 30 Jul 2011 23:41

The recent reapproachment between Iran-Pakistan raises the question whether Pakistan has outsourced the strategic decision to China sprecially after OBL episode...otherwise sending Sunni Troops to peninsula/Sunni bulwark against Shia Iran and sending Wahabi mullas from the Red Mosque to Qom..does not match.....
Is China is trying to control the three dominant factors to control the Central Asia...
Punjab
Persia
Turkey

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 31 Jul 2011 10:48

RamaY wrote: Difference between unkil and aunty is that unkil doesn't have aunty's long-term vision and survival skills. I predict aunty going under burkha in next one or two generations and re-emerge as a colonizer.

Very likely IMHO. 2 generations would be enough for the entire 'commonwealth' (i.e queen's realms) to be teeming with the faithful. uq remembers the lessons from the dark ages and they are adept at surviving bleak conditions.

Also you could say that the ground is being prepared in queens realms for takeover by the faithful.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 01 Aug 2011 11:35

Now this is dangerous....

Amid simmering tensions in Islamabad-Washington relations, Pakistan’s security establishment is in the middle of another ‘strategic review’ in a bid to redesign the country’s war on terror blueprint.

The decision is based on the assumptions that the global financing of battle against al Qaeda is rapidly shrinking and the worsening situation may trigger an abrupt withdrawal of international troops from Afghanistan.

“We believe there is no more money left in the world to finance the war against terror … and there doesn’t seem to be enough interest now. Nobody seems ready to invest in this futile battle,” a senior security official said.

“We also think that the pullout from Afghanistan will not be phased as being planned in Washington and other capitals. At the end, it could possibly be more chaotic and abrupt,” added the official on the condition of anonymity.

The revelation comes amid reports that Democrats and Republicans in Congress are struggling on the draft of a bill to allow the Obama administration seek more loan.

Over the weekend, US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen said the US would struggle to pay its troops if the ongoing crisis was not resolved amicably and immediately.

Last month, the US administration withheld $800 million in military aid to Pakistan.

The establishment here believes the suspension of aid was among the early signs that the US will not be spending much on war on terror in the future.

At least two more insiders confirmed the policy was being overhauled and was proactively pursuing ‘repaired’ ties with Afghanistan and seeking support from key regional players like China, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

On the domestic front, officials added, the architects of Pakistan’s fight against al Qaeda inside the country’s tribal lands would be focusing on ‘scaling down’ the battle and diverting most of the resources and manpower to defend the porous border with Afghanistan.

Sources revealed that making peace with some of the home-grown Taliban groups – which had hitherto been hostile to Pakistan and its military – could also be part of the new game-plan being designed to deal with an Afghanistan without US presence.

A couple of officials said that part of the new strategy was already being employed in the tribal areas and secret efforts aimed at the ‘reorientation’ of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) were already underway.

Under the new plan, officials added, the TTP leadership would be asked to focus its attention to fight against international forces in Afghanistan and spare Pakistan. In return, they would be offered ‘concessions’ similar to those being enjoyed by the Haqqani network — a group of pro-Pakistan Afghan Taliban based in North Waziristan and operating across the border against the US-led multinational forces.

“Mills are grinding overtime and you will soon see them filtering grains,” was a brief answer from an official when asked to share details of the peacemaking deal with Hakimullah Mehsud’s TTP.

On seeking regional solutions of the Afghan imbroglio, officials said that recent visits by President Asif Ali Zardari to Iran, Afghanistan and then Saudi Arabia were arranged keeping this very context in mind.

Similarly, Pakistan’s political and military leadership is also constantly in touch with the Chinese government on the issue.

Around a fortnight ago, Pakistan Army Chief of General Staff Lt General Waheed Arshad was in Beijing for a week and officials here said the visit was part of the security establishment’s manoeuvres to have China on its side.

Spokesperson for Zardari, former senator Farhatullah Babar, told The Express Tribune that Pakistan understood that regional countries can be in a better position to decide how to fight terrorism than the ones “sitting thousands of miles away”.

He confirmed that the Afghanistan issue was part of the president’s meetings with the leadership of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Experts also said that Pakistan should prepare a plan to fill the ‘void’ an abrupt pullout of American forces from Afghanistan could create.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 01 Aug 2011 20:06

Amu Darya fertile for conflict

And then there is the problem of Afghanistan.

Today over 80%t of its population depends on farming, and the demand for water there is increasing. This is sure to aggravate the scarcity for the countries downstream from Afghanistan.

"As Afghanistan hopefully will develop peacefully in the next few years, its agriculture will develop the tributaries that flow through its territory. Water will be increasingly utilized for local irrigation," Linn said. "And that will mean that there will be less water that will flow into the main river. That particularly affects Turkmenistan, which is immediately downriver, but then also could affect Uzbekistan."

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Aug 2011 08:34

Bomb kills intelligence chief in Afghanistan's Kunduz province, police tell Reuters

(Reuters) - A car bomb killed the head of Afghanistan's intelligence service in the northern Kunduz province on Thursday morning, the latest in a string of high profile assassinations, a spokesman for the Kunduz police chief said.

Three civilians were also wounded by the blast from the bomb planted in the car of Payenda Khan, head of the National Directorate of Security in Kunduz, police spokesman Sayed Sarwar Husaini said.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Aug 2011 16:15

http://www.pajhwok.com/en/2011/08/03/ta ... ens-ghazni
Taliban ban sale of frozen chickens in Ghazni

The frozen chickens are imported from the United States, Brazil, China and India. The Taliban say butchers in those countries do not follow Islamic slaughtering practices.

.......A professor of Islamic Culture at Ghazni University, Munir, said: "The fatwa came from religious scholars in Pakistan. They do not want Afghanistan to increase trade with India."

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 05 Aug 2011 16:31

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.pajhwok.com/en/2011/08/03/ta ... ens-ghazni
Taliban ban sale of frozen chickens in Ghazni
The frozen chickens are imported from the United States, Brazil, China and India. The Taliban say butchers in those countries do not follow Islamic slaughtering practices.

.......A professor of Islamic Culture at Ghazni University, Munir, said: "The fatwa came from religious scholars in Pakistan. They do not want Afghanistan to increase trade with India."

normally aam junta do not riot on anything as long as there stomach is not affected.they do for specific reasons for short times onlee for other reasons.(non food rioting)
rioting will start easily if stomach is hurt. it is a potential flashpoint.
only a short fuse is enough. It will be fun if there is a short supply of islamic chickens for some time

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 06 Aug 2011 15:33

Afghan helicopter crash kills 31 US special force troops
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14430735

A US helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan has killed 31 US special forces and seven Afghan soldiers, President Hamid Karzai's office says.

The helicopter was taking the personnel back to their base after an operation.

It is not clear how the crash happened but the Taliban have said they shot the helicopter down.

===

Dozens Killed as NATO Helicopter Shot Down in Afghanistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world ... &ref=world

KABUL, Afghanistan — Insurgents shot down a NATO Chinook helicopter during an overnight operation in eastern Afghanistan, killing at least 37 people on board, a coalition military official said on Saturday.

U.S. Air Force Capt. Justin Brockhoff, a NATO spokesman, confirmed the crash but could provide no further information, including what caused the crash or whether there were casualties.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 Aug 2011 00:42

Pakistan is striking in revenge against the Bin Ladin take-down. They are showing that if the US can come into Pak at will, so can Pak come into Afghanistan at will and kill those who took down Bin Ladin. I will not be in the least bit surprised if some of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin kill were in the chopper that was shot down.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Aug 2011 01:39

JE Menon wrote:Pakistan is striking in revenge against the Bin Ladin take-down. They are showing that if the US can come into Pak at will, so can Pak come into Afghanistan at will and kill those who took down Bin Ladin. I will not be in the least bit surprised if some of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin kill were in the chopper that was shot down.

And to rub salt to the wound, ISI will probably issue a statement through Hina that they "condemn" this attack

. See also

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1142396

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 Aug 2011 01:42

It looks like up to 20 of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin operation may have been killed... so says NTDV.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 07 Aug 2011 02:24

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... liban.html

According to US intelligence officials, 23 Seals who killed Bin Laden at his compound in Pakistan in May had recently returned to Afghanistan from their base in North Carolina.
It was reported last night that the Seals who died in the helicopter crash were not among the 23 who killed Bin Laden. However, they were members of the same 120-strong Seal Team Six and would have trained alongside and been close friends with those who carried out the Bin Laden raid.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 07 Aug 2011 02:45

I think what the rest of the world may have overlooked is making life very difficult for the Mullahs. Imagine reverse Fatwas or is that Sawtaf? where recalcitrant Mullahs keep having mysterious accidents such as running head on into bullets or exploding due to spontaneous vacuum bulb expansion.

If they have to keep looking over their shoulder and seeing backpacks in a whole new way, who knows how their worldview might change?

Let us think about it.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 07 Aug 2011 02:53

JE Menon wrote:It looks like up to 20 of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin operation may have been killed... so says NTDV.

Dunno about NDTV and its screaming Mimis. The investigation is on right now whether this was a RPG or an Anza. If the latter, the folks at Whiteman AFB, Mo. will be gearing up for a sortie or two. Or maybe they will regardless, for a fireworks display at Abpara.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 07 Aug 2011 03:30

JE Menon wrote:It looks like up to 20 of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin operation may have been killed... so says NTDV.

So here we have the American heroes of Operation Geronimo losing their lives to ISI-sponsored and ISI-supported Taliban.

Now we await for the likes of Colin Powells and Donald Rumsfeld coming on Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer telling how fcuking important Pakistan is for American interests. Ach-thoo! While American Heroes lose their lives, American politicians would award billions of American tax-payer dollars to prop up their murderers!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Aug 2011 03:36

Lots of speculation, ifs and buts. But if this true that seals involved in taking out OBL were among the dead, or even otherwise, just the fact that those dead were part of seal team, IMO it is deadly revenge by ISI. This also means the CIA got the message, however much they might mask it in public. They must be seething in anger and humiliation while Bollywood tunes and scotch whiksy galore at GHQ in Rawilpindi. But make no mistake about it, US will retailate if all of the above is true. This could very well be an AfPak game changer.

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 07 Aug 2011 03:57

CRS

The US is not retaliating. Atleast not in any way that will change the game. A few abduls will be pestified, a few more drone attacks, even maybe on haqqani assets - but no, nothing will be done to the folk who matter, nothing will happen to the $$s that flow to them.

The US is, if anything, far more soft when it comes to these orcs than India is.

Wishing its different i fine, expecting it to happen is deluding yourself.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 07 Aug 2011 04:20

^^ will it be possible a drone might miss a target and the missile might fall on an ISI office.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 07 Aug 2011 04:45

Helicopter crash in Afghanistan worst single-day toll for U.S. forces in 10 years

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Aug 2011 04:54

subodh wrote:CRS

The US is not retaliating. Atleast not in any way that will change the game. A few abduls will be pestified, a few more drone attacks, even maybe on haqqani assets - but no, nothing will be done to the folk who matter, nothing will happen to the $$s that flow to them.

The US is, if anything, far more soft when it comes to these orcs than India is.

Wishing its different i fine, expecting it to happen is deluding yourself.

Why not? Surely, unlike India, not because TSP will nuke US. Whats the reason?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 07 Aug 2011 05:20

CRamS wrote:
Why not? Surely, unlike India, not because TSP will nuke US. Whats the reason?

So when Paki nukes India do you think India will nuke back or not?

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 07 Aug 2011 06:13

CRS

they never avenged the CIA chica and her 6 CIA pals, they never really avenged the 9/11 carnage - @hole mushrat is still grinning away, they have taken hit after hit, and hit out at defenseless afghan and paki rural abduls - big f'king deal.

No paki 3star and above has paid any price to the best of my knowledge (they have gotten 10s of billions of $s in baksheesh instead), and they are the ONLY folk who really matter in this game - and the US has done nothing but suck up to them before and after 9/11 - irrespective of the provocation.

You tell me, what changes this time?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 07 Aug 2011 06:48

Unprecedented tragedy devastates NSW community

DevGru has four line squadrons — Blue, Gold, Red and Silver — plus a strategic reconnaissance element known as Black Squadron.

Each squadron is divided into three troops. The crash wiped out an entire troop in Gold Squadron, said the NSW source.

The remaining U.S. military casualties were divided between a five-person regular Army aircrew and three Air Force combat controllers, said a special ops source who has been briefed on the incident. The use of a regular Army Chinook to fly a JSOC mission was “atypical,” the source said. Most JSOC missions involving helicopters are flown by the Army’s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne).

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 07 Aug 2011 06:49

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 72861.html
US special forces killed in Afghanistan crash
"Taliban say they downed helicopter in the deadliest single combat incident of the decade-long war.
A NATO helicopter has crashed in eastern Afghanistan during a battle with the Taliban, killing at least 31 US and seven Afghan soldiers, a statement from the Afghan president's office said.

The statement on Saturday said a Chinook helicopter had crashed in Syedabad in central Maidan Wardak province, west of capital Kabul, and identified the Americans as special forces troops.
More than 20 US navy SEALs from the broader unit that killed Osama bin Laden were among those killed in the crash, though none of the victims were involved in that raid, the New York Times reported.
The troops from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, according to one current and one former US official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified.
One source said the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three air force air controllers, seven Afghan army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.
The Taliban quickly claimed to have shot down the helicopter during a firefight. They also said eight of their fighters were killed in the fighting......"
Gautam

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Aug 2011 07:19

subodh

First, are you Subodh Atal by any chance? If so, I think I have met you many years ago during a terrorism panel discussion at University of MD, College Park.

Anyway, there is nothing to disagree with your list, but my question is, why is US going so soft? I am looking for the reasons that prevent US from taking revenge. Why? What are US's pressing handicaps, or national interests that preclude it from doing what is necessary to Paki generals.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Aug 2011 09:35

US Chinook shot down: A shame about the dog...

PS:Chinook's are being regularly lost.There seems to be a vulnerability problem with them.The IAF should seriously factor in this truth when it decides about its "heavy lift helo" contest,where the MI-26,which has been used to extricate crashed Chinook's in Af-Pak is the rival contender.

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 07 Aug 2011 09:41

Philip wrote:US Chinook shot down: A shame about the dog...

PS:Chinook's are being regularly lost.There seems to be a vulnerability problem with them.The IAF should seriously factor in this truth when it decides about its "heavy lift helo" contest,where the MI-26,which has been used to extricate crashed Chinook's in Af-Pak is the rival contender.

Very observant Philip. Indeed the Chinooks have severe vulnerability.

The word is that Chinooks infect their owners with the malady that they cannot help but attack Paki proxies via airborne missions.

As you correctly point out, IAF should seriously factor in this truth, lest it too suffer from this malady. Heavens forbid that IAF too starts attacking Paki or its proxies!

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Aug 2011 09:52

^^ Either way, ~20 out of 120 ST-6 being lost is a huge loss ( am sure even the pilots might have been from SOAR)

So, all in all, a bad dream day for the Amir-khan.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 07 Aug 2011 12:25

In case, the rpg/anza comes true the culling of rogue generals(which means all generals) should begin, I am pretty sure every one of the remaining ST6 is baying for their blood and unkil definitely will do something((my fervent pleas for action) unlike our gerontocracy which is interested in bhaichara only

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Aug 2011 12:36

CRamS wrote:
JE Menon wrote:Pakistan is striking in revenge against the Bin Ladin take-down. They are showing that if the US can come into Pak at will, so can Pak come into Afghanistan at will and kill those who took down Bin Ladin. I will not be in the least bit surprised if some of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin kill were in the chopper that was shot down.
And to rub salt to the wound, ISI will probably issue a statement through Hina that they "condemn" this attack . See also

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1142396

What could be more tragic for the US would be if the Chinook had indeed been brought down by a Pakistani Anza. The old Stingers in Taliban hands may not be operational or otherwise that would be even more tragic.

I certainly believe that this was an ISI revenge.

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 07 Aug 2011 15:24

CRS - no, I am not that subodh. I am a no name sdre toiling in masa land.

Many reasons, many answers to your question - most of which have been outlined here in the past.

My personal take - the Us is not that much different from India - sure, its more ruthless about its economic interests, and epresses its geo-political reach more effectively - but when it comes down to it, prefers dealing with rabid swine like pakistan with kid gloves, convinces itself about 'uses' for this vile entity (some of which are justified in a historical context), and the DC crowd, especially State Dept has contempt for the average soldier, and couldnt care much about their loss.

Deep pockets let the US drag conflicts on beyond what is possible for others, something an India cannot contenance, but I do believe, the US is caught between a rock and a hard place - cannot actually 'bomb' pakistan into submission, and too used to cozying up with the generals to break that pattern. I dont know what breaks it - i would have assumed 9/11 would - but in fact the opposite happened.

And believe me, if brf figured out pretty quickly from open source that 9/11 was a paki op, DC did too. And yet, they did nothing - armitage/powell's BS pr about mush@ss being given a stark choice etc was all for show, proof of the pudding, the air-lift command was placed at paki disposal at kunduz a scant few weeks later.

The US is soft when it comes to the pakis, just like india is - maybe its those new&clear bums? i dont know. All i see is this lame behaviour.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 07 Aug 2011 17:19

SSridhar wrote: What could be more tragic for the US would be if the Chinook had indeed been brought down by a Pakistani Anza. The old Stingers in Taliban hands may not be operational or otherwise that would be even more tragic.

I certainly believe that this was an ISI revenge.

SS
It doesn't matter if it was a Anza or a stringer. The intel must have been provided by ISI. I am sure ISI was tracking ST6 since Bin Laden death and chinook was the most opportune moment to exact revenge. Who ever passed on the intel to taliban would have a very tough time to hide.
Altair

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 07 Aug 2011 18:24

^^^^
and don't forget that ISI might have provided the junk info through
"sources" to NATO about the presence of a high-value target near
the crash site to lure so many Special Op troops..........

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 07 Aug 2011 18:29

apart from ST6 there were half dozen Afghan commandos, dog handler, interpreter, flight crew, and pilots #Afghanistan
5 hours ago
»
akchishti
targeting of Seal Team 6 Chopper needs intelligence & solid 'expertise'.Wonder who has those capabilites in #Afghanistan? #NATO #Talibans
5 hours ago
»
akchishti akchishti
The ISI seem's to step up pressure on #NATO supplies. They attacked one in Sindh & now today's incident in North.
16 hours ago
»
akchishti akchishti
there seems to be growing opposition to Gen.Keyani within the military itself - apparently, his extension really hurt atleast 2 Generals.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 07 Aug 2011 19:11

I will not be in the least bit surprised if some of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin kill were in the chopper that was shot down.

In the deadliest day for American forces in the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan, insurgents shot down a Chinook transport helicopter on Saturday, killing 30 Americans, including some Navy Seal commandos from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden, as well as 8 Afghans, American and Afghan officials said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world ... all?src=tp

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Aug 2011 19:50

Sushupti wrote:
I will not be in the least bit surprised if some of the SEALs involved in the Bin Ladin kill were in the chopper that was shot down.
In the deadliest day for American forces in the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan, insurgents shot down a Chinook transport helicopter on Saturday, killing 30 Americans, including some Navy Seal commandos from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden, as well as 8 Afghans, American and Afghan officials said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world ... all?src=tp

quite a sting.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 Aug 2011 20:48

We can be virtually certain that the weapon used by the Taliban to bring down the Chinook was supplied from Pakistan. The deafening silence from American officialdom on the event is also remarkable.